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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
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CCP Whisper
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Posted - 2009.01.09 10:47:00 -
[1]
There appears to be an issue with SMC firmware in the new model Macbook Pro's which prevents the cooling fan speed from being increased due to the CPU heating up under load. Discussions on this can be found here and here. If you are playing EVE on a new model Macbook Pro please keep an eye on your CPU temperature. Depending on what you are doing the temperature of your CPU can rapidly go above 94 degrees Celcius which is well outside the tolerances of the Intel chips. I was running three clients in windowed mode and nearly reached 100C in less than ten minutes so this can happen really quickly.
Resetting the SMC does result in the issue being resolved, however if you put your Macbook Pro to sleep, either through the system menu or by closing the screen, the issue will reappear and you will have to reset the SMC again. Detailed instructions on how to reset the SMC can be found on this Apple support page (New Macbook Pro users should follow the instructions for the Macbook Air).
Also if someone has found a way to get smcFanControl working on a new Macbook Pro I'd appreciate some advice, as everytime I try to run it I get the message that my machine is not supported.
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Yastin Mallen
Pleasure and Pain OWN Alliance
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Posted - 2009.01.10 14:53:00 -
[2]
Does FanControl (not smcFanControl) work for you?
-Y |
Creep Behind
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Posted - 2009.01.11 22:31:00 -
[3]
Hello sir,
I have a new mbp for 1 week now and when i installed eve it didnt went true 60C Atm iam allways running smcfancontrol this way i set speed up to 4000 when running on max mode. If i run it on battery saving i just use 3000 speed and it all keeps real cool will not go higher then 56 around that number..
Cheers |
Sazuka Kirr
Es and Whizz Hedonistic Imperative
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Posted - 2009.01.13 18:59:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Yastin Mallen Does FanControl (not smcFanControl) work for you?
Nope :(
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nachteule
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Posted - 2009.01.23 03:58:00 -
[5]
Edited by: nachteule on 23/01/2009 03:58:22 http://www.macupdate.com/info.php/id/23049
that is the updated version of SMC fan control.
works on the new '08 macs. |
Adira Lotz
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Posted - 2009.01.28 11:06:00 -
[6]
I was going to buy a new Mac book Pro (15ö) and then read this. I was planning on running EVE under XP via Bootcamp at least until the native Mac client is a lot better. I have no problem using one of the programs suggested as a temporary fix but:
Can you tell me if this problem manifests itself in that situation (EVE using Bootcamp)?
If so how would I tell if the temperatures were getting too high and how would I stop this occurring?
This would be my first Apple so I am not very knowledgeable about how Bootcamp would impact this situation.
Also would running the Premium client under XP work well enough to take part in large fleet fights?
Thanks |
Maula Jat
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Posted - 2009.01.29 13:38:00 -
[7]
I use a 15" MacBook Pro to run eve both in OS X as well as Windows XP+Boot Camp. A summary of my subjective experience:
The underside of the notebook gets uncomfortably hot regardless of the OS. Fans tend to run faster under Windows and the battery continues to charge and function properly. In OS X the fans are quieter but the battery stops charging after a while and is not detectable after a hour or more of use (functions properly once the notebook cools down).
In windows, if eve is running minimized in the background, the notebook does not heat up very much, while in OS X there is no difference.
All sorts of texture artifacts show up in OS X and the frame rate is about half of that under windows.
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Shadowfigt
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Posted - 2009.01.29 21:31:00 -
[8]
I play EVE on the newest macbook pro 15" with the 512 mb nVidia graphic card, and so far EvE seems to run pretty well and smothly under Bootcamp. I use the program "rightmark" to monitor how mutch CPU I use and how hot my computer gets.
So far with the best settings in eve I normally use 85-90% of the computer CPU and the temperature of the computer stays at or below 77 celcius. Of the 5 days I have monitored my computer, tho onlytime it went wrong was when I ran 4 eve clients and i started get warnings that my computer topped 124% of my computer's CPU |
Remus Kurgan
Caldari Void Engineers
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Posted - 2009.02.03 17:20:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Adira Lotz I was going to buy a new Mac book Pro (15ö) and then read this. I was planning on running EVE under XP via Bootcamp at least until the native Mac client is a lot better. I have no problem using one of the programs suggested as a temporary fix but:
Can you tell me if this problem manifests itself in that situation (EVE using Bootcamp)?
If so how would I tell if the temperatures were getting too high and how would I stop this occurring?
This would be my first Apple so I am not very knowledgeable about how Bootcamp would impact this situation.
Also would running the Premium client under XP work well enough to take part in large fleet fights?
Thanks
Temperature controls should not change between Windows and the Mac side, all of the SMC controls are written to firmware on the logic board, so if fans are not spinning up properly or not cooling the machine properly, it is likely an issue with either the SMC, the firmware, or a hardware failure of some kind.
There are applications, both Windows and Macs, that can tell the software to override the firmware instructions and make the machine run fans at full blast always or other things like that. If the machine is functioning properly, it should cool itself properly. If the Mac OS notes an overtemp, and cannot correct it, the machine is designed to shut itself down completely to prevent hardware damage. That's assuming that the temp sensors are responding properly, but usually if they're not, the computer will assume the temp sensor is dead and spin correlating fans up to 100% automatically.
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wenxiu
Gallente 3M Institute Sang Do Oligarchic Democracy
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Posted - 2009.02.06 08:02:00 -
[10]
While the Mac may shut down to prevent damage to components, do realize that too much heat exposure to your batteries can drastically reduce their service life.
I've seen 3 NEW batteries being replaced and 2 more currently having about 50% or less capacity after being used for 6 months or so while playing EVE.
Now I keep the bad battery for when I am playing EVE and swap the good one for when I need to be outdoors and moving about but I specifically ban all EVE playing using that good battery.
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Drake Draconis
Minmatar Shadow Cadre Worlds End Consortium
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Posted - 2009.02.12 22:14:00 -
[11]
I've been using SMC Fan Control... seems to be doing a good job.. don't see the CPU peeking over 70C.
Tempted to kick up the fans an another 1000 RPM's to see if that helps.
Idling for the most part puts it at 30 to 40C.
And that's a Macbook Pro 15" late 2008.
=============== CEO of Clan Shadow Cadre www.shadowcadre.com =============== |
ghattaa
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Posted - 2009.02.25 17:02:00 -
[12]
AH!! Thanks for the great post. I noticed my temps in the 80s after a few hours of play I'm on the new MBP Unibody (Late 2008), whereas I never had this issue with my early 2008 MBP.
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Tir Arsil
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Posted - 2009.03.02 04:06:00 -
[13]
I'm using a (CTO) 2.8 GHz unibody 15" MBP here, and when I first got into the game a couple of months ago, the CPU would easily go to 100C using the 9600M GT. Two SMC updates later and this is no longer the case. Usually cruises around 80C or so with the fans holding steady around 6K.
This is using the native MacOS client under 10.5.6. |
Ajility
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Posted - 2009.03.03 11:24:00 -
[14]
Seems to be quite the difference between the MBP and the MB .. I play on the late 2008 unibody MB 13" and using smcFanControl boosting the single fan in the MB to 6000 rpm while playing eve allows me to cruise around at about 60 celcius on my CPU ... Normal speed is of course 2000 RPM, but i run at 3000 in OS X just because I don't mind the tiny bit more noise it makes at 3000 instead of 2000 and it keeps me down around 45-47 celcius when not running Eve.. Seems there's more fans in the MBP but also that it develops about twice as much heat ..
Tried running Eve without boosting the fans up, letting it run default and decide the speed on it's own, it were running about 3700 RPM which left me at 66 celcius on the CPU .. nowhere near any danger levels..
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Drake Draconis
Minmatar Shadow Cadre Worlds End Consortium
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Posted - 2009.03.14 20:01:00 -
[15]
Ok smartypants Mac Users...
Late 2008 MBP...
What would you choose for a cooling pad.
I'd like to keep my graphics settings maxed out.
I want to see my core temps stay around the low to mid 50's... without using dryice : O P =============== CEO of Clan Shadow Cadre www.shadowcadre.com ===============
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Tir Arsil
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Posted - 2009.03.17 16:57:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Tir Arsil on 17/03/2009 17:00:44 The new MBPs aren't designed to run at 50 C at full load -- or even 60 or 70. Oh noes they get hot. Really hot. You have AppleCare, right?
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Cor Aidan
Imperium Forces Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2009.03.17 23:27:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Cor Aidan on 17/03/2009 23:36:01 Edited by: Cor Aidan on 17/03/2009 23:31:32 MBP (2007 model): dual 2.4GHZ, nVidia 8600M GT 256MB here, OSX 10.5.6.
Was not really having heat problems with Apocrypha (typical approx 60-65 C with fans at 4200RPM) but the new March 17th patch has me running at 80 degC with fans at 5200 RPM... and that's after turning the shaders down all the way, too.
Something in this patch is trying to cook my poor computer...should I file a separate bug report (not really a bug, just something in the delta from previous to current patch is running my CPU a lot harder...)
I just had my logic board replaced due to the shaky nVidia chips in the original batch, and I know that was a heat issue, so I'm quite sensitive to my system running at anything over 70 C.
EDIT Ah strange - I just realized that for some reason I had two EvE clients running (which is fairly abnormal for me since I only ever run one). One was working fine but one I didn't know about was in the background, stalled, and eating up all my CPU. Killed it and all is well - perhaps something with the patcher starting two clients instead of one after the patch?
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Drake Draconis
Minmatar Shadow Cadre Worlds End Consortium
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Posted - 2009.03.18 23:22:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Tir Arsil Edited by: Tir Arsil on 17/03/2009 17:00:44 The new MBPs aren't designed to run at 50 C at full load -- or even 60 or 70. Oh noes they get hot. Really hot. You have AppleCare, right?
<---- ACSP/ACTC/ACMT
(Apple Certified Support Professional 10.5/Technical Coordinator 10.5 SERVER/Maintenance Technician(very soon)
The MT part means I AM Apple care...
Ok maybe not directly... but it means I'm certified to do Apple Care Maitencnce.
While Apple has not published any specific maximum limits in there service manuals... or I've not done the research yet the rule of thumb is simple this... and this is authoritative... so don't listen to anyone else.
No seriously... don't.
Anything above 75C is dangerous....
Thats as simple as that.
Keep in mind it's not so much the CPU Core temp at that temp... its more of what it effects around it... cooling down...heating up rappidly... etc..etc...
Prolonged temp exposure causes radiation effects to spread to other areas... MBP are made of aluimium which makes it strong and light... but they hold heat like a #####.
My problem is the cooling pad pushing/pulling air under the MBP is accomplishing nothing.
It's the heat being retained in the metal base that needs to be absorbed away from the MBP.
50C is safe.... but anything near or above 75 makes me a wee bit skiddish.
Do a conversion to F and you'll see why real quick.
Now there's no need to panic... I said its dangerous... not fatal.
There's a big difference... Dangerous in my terms is you'll probably be ok... just don't expect it to live very long.
Fatal is obvious... can you say shiny pile of metal goo?
Heat/Friction is bad for CPU's.... or GPU's.. or any electrical components.
The cooler you can run them... consistently... the better off they are. I got a guy with a master's degree in Physics backing me on this one and too many years of insanity over Electrical Engineering and product safety.... I think its safe to assume he's right about this one.
No he doesn't play EVE Online. Wish he did!
: O P
=============== CEO of Clan Shadow Cadre www.shadowcadre.com ===============
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Nickel Deuce
VentureCorp Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2009.03.19 09:53:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Drake Draconis
<---- ACSP/ACTC/ACMT
...stuff...
So is there anyway to run both cores at 100% utilization and stay within tolerances? Something doesn't add up here. I have a 15" unibody MBP and with two clients running, usually hovers at 75-80˚C with the fan at >6000rpm. Are you meaning to tell me they don't engineer their products to withstand max utilization?
Well.. glad i have applecare..
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Ami Nia
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.03.19 12:00:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Nickel Deuce
Originally by: Drake Draconis
<---- ACSP/ACTC/ACMT
...stuff...
So is there anyway to run both cores at 100% utilization and stay within tolerances? Something doesn't add up here. I have a 15" unibody MBP and with two clients running, usually hovers at 75-80˚C with the fan at >6000rpm. Are you meaning to tell me they don't engineer their products to withstand max utilization?
Well.. glad i have applecare..
Do your own research. If you want my opinion, portables are not designed to stay cool on load. Intel CPU specs for desktop CPUs are around 85¦C diode. Intel CPU specs for portable CPUs are around 100¦C core. GPU specs are around 100¦C diode.
Military experts call it a Templar, a fighter drone used by Amarr carriers. -- Sheriff Jones
apochribba -- Aurora Morgan
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Kayalin Akana
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Posted - 2009.04.01 22:46:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Kayalin Akana on 01/04/2009 22:46:51 Double Post. Delete.
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Kayalin Akana
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Posted - 2009.04.01 22:47:00 -
[22]
Any advice on a good application to use for checking the temp etc like you lot are doing? The difference is, I'm running EVE on Windows XP using my Macbook Pro. Any suggestions of a good app? Don't want to cook the computer!
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Umbrafluff
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.04.03 05:07:00 -
[23]
I have a question related to this and I guess this is the place to ask rather than making a new thread.
I got both my accounts running concurrently on my MacBook Pro and I'm using smcFanControl to watch temp and fan speed. I would like to be able to mine with one and haul with the other, but with both running at once (with graphics turned down) I need the fan turned all the way up to keep the temp below 70C (which seems to be about the point that it shouldn't be allowed to exceed). Will running it like this for a few hours a night (on average, probably sometimes more and sometimes less) wear out the fan or something else faster than normal? |
Ami Nia
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.04.03 12:19:00 -
[24]
Thanks for not contributing to buriyng threads even deeper. Some info on overheating that currently is on page 4 of the thread list. Laptops should not suffer too much even at highter temps than 70 C. Remember desktop CPUs are rated around 80 while laptops are rated around 110 (unfortunatelly not a good comparison as they are rated using different sensors. What Whisper says is that the new McBook Pros seem to have some more issues in starting up the fan (they came preset to start it at highter temps). But if you look at the OP here, it's going to 100 that worries him, not 70.
As for the fan itself wearing out ... well, sure it's a mechanical part that moves and may wear out. But being too worried about this is a bit paranoid. It still is more likely you end up with the hard disk failing than the fan. I'd say if your fan fails, it was defective to begin with.
Military experts call it a Templar, a fighter drone used by Amarr carriers. -- Sheriff Jones
apochribba -- Aurora Morgan
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nonombre
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Posted - 2009.04.09 07:46:00 -
[25]
I found this conversation pretty interesting, especially since Apocrypha I've been regularly hitting CPU temps of 75C+ (and GPU temps even higher) within minutes of starting EVE. Thought I'd experiment a bit and post the results in the hopes of helping mitigate this issue. I'm running on a 2007 15" MBP, 10.5.6, nvidia 8600GT GPU, 4GB RAM. I've tried external fans, raising the laptop off the desk surface to increase airflow, smcFanControl to max the fans while playing, everything but dry ice , all with limited benefit.
Along with the rest of the discussion, the following post really got me thinking about the dynamics of the internal heat buildup:
Originally by: wenxiu While the Mac may shut down to prevent damage to components, do realize that too much heat exposure to your batteries can drastically reduce their service life... (((snip)))
So I pulled my battery completely, cranked the fans to 4500rpm, and fired up EVE. To my utter amazement my CPU temps are a steady 45-47C after hours of play! I do have the laptop raised from the desk surface to encourage more airflow, which I think is a good idea in any case with these machines. Of course this was a very casual experiment, and YMMV, but I'm sold. This is the only way I'll play from now on. I'd be interested to hear others experience with this technique, especially with the new late-2008 MBP. Hope this is useful to someone, and thanks to all for helping me get to this comfy temp zone!
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Cheekything
Gallente Fallen Angel's Blade.
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Posted - 2009.04.10 07:29:00 -
[26]
Originally by: nonombre ... So I pulled my battery completely, cranked the fans to 4500rpm, and fired up EVE. To my utter amazement my CPU temps are a steady 45-47C after hours of play!...
Love and much win.
I've been panicing about the heat my laptop gives out mainly when it goes up to 90 at 6000 RPM but battery out and it's nearly fine :D
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Vincent Athena
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Posted - 2009.04.14 21:00:00 -
[27]
How do any of you know your CPU temperature or control your fan speed?
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nonombre
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Posted - 2009.04.15 06:07:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Vincent Athena Edited by: Vincent Athena on 14/04/2009 21:08:27 Nevermind, found it.
smcFanControl is a downloadable app.
How do any of you know your CPU temperature or control your fan speed?
smcFanControl only allows you to set your fan speeds. I use iStat Menus for easy, always on, monitoring of many system stats, like CPU load, memory usage, temps, etc. Or try iStat Nano, if you prefer widgets. Great little tool:
http://www.islayer.com/apps/istatmenus/
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Drake Draconis
Minmatar Shadow Cadre Worlds End Consortium
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Posted - 2009.04.24 06:11:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Nickel Deuce
Originally by: Drake Draconis
<---- ACSP/ACTC/ACMT
...stuff...
So is there anyway to run both cores at 100% utilization and stay within tolerances? Something doesn't add up here. I have a 15" unibody MBP and with two clients running, usually hovers at 75-80˚C with the fan at >6000rpm. Are you meaning to tell me they don't engineer their products to withstand max utilization?
Well.. glad i have applecare..
A: EVE runs in a windows virtualization/translation environment... its going to futz with CPU load... the trick is memory load and gpu load really.
B: Run the fans full out
C: I suggest a Thermal Pad (Absorption kind) I don't see temps going any higher than 70 unless I forget to check the pad as when they hit equilibrium they don't pull heat away efficiently enough.
D: Apple did not engineer them properly to cool efficiently and it's a pet peeve of mine. They also had this issue with previous models.
In all honesty just keep them cool as possible and do not let them hover above 70 degrees C for prolonged periods of time.
Ignore anyone who says otherwise... this is someone who has done a great deal of research on apple hardware and I got a father for a physicist/electrical engineer (retired/disabled)... who loves to tinker with computers and other fun things.
PS: sorry for the slow response ========================= CEO of Shadow Cadre http://www.shadowcadre.com =========================
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Drake Draconis
Minmatar Shadow Cadre Worlds End Consortium
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Posted - 2009.04.24 06:18:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Ami Nia
Originally by: Nickel Deuce
Originally by: Drake Draconis
<---- ACSP/ACTC/ACMT
...stuff...
So is there anyway to run both cores at 100% utilization and stay within tolerances? Something doesn't add up here. I have a 15" unibody MBP and with two clients running, usually hovers at 75-80˚C with the fan at >6000rpm. Are you meaning to tell me they don't engineer their products to withstand max utilization?
Well.. glad i have applecare..
Do your own research. If you want my opinion, portables are not designed to stay cool on load. Intel CPU specs for desktop CPUs are around 85¦C diode. Intel CPU specs for portable CPUs are around 100¦C core. GPU specs are around 100¦C diode.
Your opinion is noted and rejected while laughing.
That's like saying you can drive a car constantly at 100 MPH and expect nothing to go wrong after 12 to 24 hours of use as far as tires and brakes and everything else.
If you want to be that stupid and reckless then by my guest. Don't expect apple care to cover it either... you can bet on that... and that is an authoritative answer.
They have a very strong clause for "Accidental Damage" and they aren't stupid either.
If you intentionally let your CPU/GPU's run that hot you are shooting yourself in the head.
Stay no higher than 70C, 75C at most... if you go any higher... you are utterly on your own.
You can choose to ignore me at your own risk.
The biggest problem is the cooling intank and exhaust are all in the same area. Which is stupid. This is why I'm not zealous over apple.
I've got the service manuals to prove it.. and no you can't have them.. Apple won't let me : O P
You need to make sure there is a fair bit of space behind your MBP.... and make sure its not sitting on something that retains heat.... as radiation (as in thermal radiation) will make life hard on your computer. Not so much core temp.
I'm using a Thermaltake Heat Absorption Pad that pulls the heat quite nicely keeping my temps around 60 to 65 depending on what I'm doing.
Every coupe of hours I have to rotate it 180 to keep the "stuff" inside the pad working.... as it won't work so well once the absorption hits equilibrium it needs to cool down itself.
But its certainly better than letting it sit on a surface or a cooling fan pad which is useless as theres no ammount of air to move other than a slab of aluminum.
You guys can debate it all you want.... fact remains... keep it cool and keep it safe.
One of the symptoms of pushing it too hard... Graphical anomalies show up when you read text out of game. Still tracing it.... suspect its driver related and not temp. ========================= CEO of Shadow Cadre http://www.shadowcadre.com =========================
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