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Pivalak
Ultriach Criesther Evirementari
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Posted - 2009.01.10 11:44:00 -
[1]
Originally by: CCP Casqade You will be able to download premium for mac on March 10th. You do not need to buy anything, unless you want to. I will certainly buy it, I like boxes.
Does anybody know if we will be able to download premium for Linux from CCP as well on March 10th? Any devs out there? |
Pivalak
Ultriach Criesther Evirementari
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Posted - 2009.01.12 22:40:00 -
[2]
I think they have forgotten about us... or worst :(
Premium Graphics Beta Client Now Available for Download (Mac)
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farfrael
Freelancer Union Unaffiliated
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Posted - 2009.01.13 21:31:00 -
[3]
looks that way
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Kadesh Priestess
Scalding Chill
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Posted - 2009.01.13 22:14:00 -
[4]
I don't see any reason to disappoint - QA for mac is much less resouce-consuming than for linux, and, in the end of the day, we have wine.
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farfrael
Freelancer Union Unaffiliated
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Posted - 2009.01.14 19:32:00 -
[5]
ttt
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Bo'Tox
Amarr Arkor Inc
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Posted - 2009.01.15 03:09:00 -
[6]
We didnt see an "impending" annnouncement on the mac forums about the forthcoming release, so I dont see why we will see one on the Linux forusm either!
While I dont have any proof, I believe that they would be killing a decent portion of their fanbase if they didnt release a Premium-Lite client for Linux. Indeed they may be working with the Wine team to see if they can release the Windows client under WINE.
But if I were CCP I'd have members of the WINE team sign NDA's to prevent leaks..... so dont expect a confirmation until its officially announced...
It would be good, but even so, Id expect, at absolute least, a Premium-Lite Client using Cedega...
CCP would be shooting themselves in the foot if they didnt keep their Linux users when they release apocrypha...More so than any other single previous release (ie Disbaling Ghost training, etc).
if you assume that Linux users account for 10-20% of all active accounts then effectively your talking about them loosing all profit margins from Eve. No WIS, No future expansions, solely because tey wanted to try to "Save money" by not including Linux support.
It simply wouldnt happen...
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Gavri'el
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Posted - 2009.01.15 04:42:00 -
[7]
There's a lot more to it than that.
If I were CCP, then I'd worry about how much cash I can spend paying employees to update old and really old versions of clients without moving on to newer technology which easier to program for. I'd also worry about having to pay twice as many employees to program for other OSes - cause not every one knows how to program native Linux or native Mac (even though they're quite similar). I'd probably look to strike a nice deal with the most popular OS's manufacturer, exchanging free software against allegiance and loyalty. Then, you just get 3rd party companies to wrap the Windows-based program you just wrote - but I would NOT worry about whether Mac users and Linux users are happy about their clients.
I'd probably alos figure that some other company is working on something called "Wine" and "Cedega", and I don't need to pay for it. I know I soud rough, but this is just me trying to figure what's most important if I'm wearing the CCP cap.
I'm not bashing CCP here - I totally understand if this is what really is happening. But at the same time, I guess I'm hoping I'm totally wrong and CCP is actually working in secret to change over to an all-native system... but at this moment, in the middle of an economic crisis like this one, it might prove hard. So you look for friends where you can find them.
Either way, I still am running Eve under Linux. And quite well, might I add. |
Tuttle SVC
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Posted - 2009.01.15 14:06:00 -
[8]
I don't see any more or less reason to despair than before this announcement. Mac has a larger desktop userbase and a more uniform platform, so I'd put it out first for testing and deal with us in the "I can't get this to work on my patched version of Slackware" crowd. And I wouldn't start making predictions about when things will be ready in the future, since my track record there is already shot.
The one thing we do know now is that after March 10, there will either be a supported Linux premium client, or no official Linux support. |
Xianthar
STK Scientific The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.01.15 18:48:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Gavri'el There's a lot more to it than that.
If I were CCP, then I'd worry about how much cash I can spend paying employees to update old and really old versions of clients without moving on to newer technology which easier to program for. I'd also worry about having to pay twice as many employees to program for other OSes - cause not every one knows how to program native Linux or native Mac (even though they're quite similar). I'd probably look to strike a nice deal with the most popular OS's manufacturer, exchanging free software against allegiance and loyalty. Then, you just get 3rd party companies to wrap the Windows-based program you just wrote - but I would NOT worry about whether Mac users and Linux users are happy about their clients.
I'd probably alos figure that some other company is working on something called "Wine" and "Cedega", and I don't need to pay for it. I know I soud rough, but this is just me trying to figure what's most important if I'm wearing the CCP cap.
I'm not bashing CCP here - I totally understand if this is what really is happening. But at the same time, I guess I'm hoping I'm totally wrong and CCP is actually working in secret to change over to an all-native system... but at this moment, in the middle of an economic crisis like this one, it might prove hard. So you look for friends where you can find them.
Either way, I still am running Eve under Linux. And quite well, might I add.
ironically, given that game logic is mostly in python, assuming the isolation between game logic and rendering is properly done, an openGL graphics engine shouldn't be _that_ hard to implement, which would allow the possibility of true native clients, still wouldn't hold my breath :p in the interim, we have a premium client, wine works great.
-xian |
Mes Ren
No Trademark Notoriety Alliance
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Posted - 2009.01.15 19:21:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Xianthar
Originally by: Gavri'el There's a lot more to it than that.
If I were CCP, then I'd worry about how much cash I can spend paying employees to update old and really old versions of clients without moving on to newer technology which easier to program for. I'd also worry about having to pay twice as many employees to program for other OSes - cause not every one knows how to program native Linux or native Mac (even though they're quite similar). I'd probably look to strike a nice deal with the most popular OS's manufacturer, exchanging free software against allegiance and loyalty. Then, you just get 3rd party companies to wrap the Windows-based program you just wrote - but I would NOT worry about whether Mac users and Linux users are happy about their clients.
I'd probably alos figure that some other company is working on something called "Wine" and "Cedega", and I don't need to pay for it. I know I soud rough, but this is just me trying to figure what's most important if I'm wearing the CCP cap.
I'm not bashing CCP here - I totally understand if this is what really is happening. But at the same time, I guess I'm hoping I'm totally wrong and CCP is actually working in secret to change over to an all-native system... but at this moment, in the middle of an economic crisis like this one, it might prove hard. So you look for friends where you can find them.
Either way, I still am running Eve under Linux. And quite well, might I add.
ironically, given that game logic is mostly in python, assuming the isolation between game logic and rendering is properly done, an openGL graphics engine shouldn't be _that_ hard to implement, which would allow the possibility of true native clients, still wouldn't hold my breath :p in the interim, we have a premium client, wine works great.
-xian
Unfortunately, that would creat a situation where they either maintained both directx and opengl -- a situation that makes no sense. It would be either that or getting rid of all their directx guys for some opengl guys ... generally doesn't make a lot of sense to give good employees the boot. ________________________
No Trademark -- Mes Ren, Mes Builder -- -- CEO --
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Xianthar
STK Scientific The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.01.17 22:31:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Mes Ren
Originally by: Xianthar
Originally by: Gavri'el There's a lot more to it than that.
If I were CCP, then I'd worry about how much cash I can spend paying employees to update old and really old versions of clients without moving on to newer technology which easier to program for. I'd also worry about having to pay twice as many employees to program for other OSes - cause not every one knows how to program native Linux or native Mac (even though they're quite similar). I'd probably look to strike a nice deal with the most popular OS's manufacturer, exchanging free software against allegiance and loyalty. Then, you just get 3rd party companies to wrap the Windows-based program you just wrote - but I would NOT worry about whether Mac users and Linux users are happy about their clients.
I'd probably alos figure that some other company is working on something called "Wine" and "Cedega", and I don't need to pay for it. I know I soud rough, but this is just me trying to figure what's most important if I'm wearing the CCP cap.
I'm not bashing CCP here - I totally understand if this is what really is happening. But at the same time, I guess I'm hoping I'm totally wrong and CCP is actually working in secret to change over to an all-native system... but at this moment, in the middle of an economic crisis like this one, it might prove hard. So you look for friends where you can find them.
Either way, I still am running Eve under Linux. And quite well, might I add.
ironically, given that game logic is mostly in python, assuming the isolation between game logic and rendering is properly done, an openGL graphics engine shouldn't be _that_ hard to implement, which would allow the possibility of true native clients, still wouldn't hold my breath :p in the interim, we have a premium client, wine works great.
-xian
Unfortunately, that would creat a situation where they either maintained both directx and opengl -- a situation that makes no sense. It would be either that or getting rid of all their directx guys for some opengl guys ... generally doesn't make a lot of sense to give good employees the boot.
while it makes little sense, its done all the time, i wouldn't think it would have to be one or the other, its far from uncommon to support multiple rendering paths, especially since dx9 and ogl 2.1 with extensions have similar enough call structure, you'd just abstract a level away from the gfx calls. its been done plenty of times, games that run on say, xbox and ps3 have to use a similar structure. on the pc side, wow is probably the most popular example today that supports both directx and oengl rendering.
as the mac os gains in market share it will be a helpful driving force in pushing opengl, or whatever new framework comes out of the opengl 3.0 fiasco.
it should also be really interesting in seeing how the gallium3D frame work impacts this in the coming months, its due to be merged into mainline mesa after the next release, if they manage to create a decent directx "plug in" this may no longer be a problem but this is some time off before all the connecting pieces are there, especially those that require hooks in the binary drivers from nvidia, at least ATI has released specs and is helping the open source ATI effort.
cheers,
x |
Srg Hedge
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Posted - 2009.01.18 10:20:00 -
[12]
I am a Mac user. Sorry for your wait guys for premium, hope your glad for us :P Firstly linux only accounts for <5% of all of the users playing eve. Mac on the other hand holds <15% of the users. I guess you guys will have to wait allot longer for your client as CCP will be really busy getting ours ready. They are the facts.
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Katrina Bekers
Gallente Hikage Corporation G00DFELLAS
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Posted - 2009.01.18 18:17:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Srg Hedge I am a Mac user. Sorry for your wait guys for premium, hope your glad for us :P
I can't speak for "we linux guys" (and gals? ), but yes, I'm very glad for Mac fellows. Your improved game experience doesn't diminishes mine, but makes for a more enjoyable game overall, so it's very welcome.
Originally by: Srg Hedge Firstly linux only accounts for <5% of all of the users playing eve. Mac on the other hand holds <15% of the users.
I really hate to resort to this meme, but: quote or leave.
Where I can find CCP provided data to back your claim?
And,
How can your <5% linux user base figure takes into account classic/premium Windows clients running under WINE?
I really hate to play devil's advocate this time, but I'd rather be considered rude and have these answers, than leave this question lingering into a balloon of hot air. I hope you understand and forgive me. |
Karak Terrel
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Posted - 2009.01.18 18:39:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Srg Hedge I am a Mac user. Sorry for your wait guys for premium, hope your glad for us :P Firstly linux only accounts for <5% of all of the users playing eve. Mac on the other hand holds <15% of the users. I guess you guys will have to wait allot longer for your client as CCP will be really busy getting ours ready. They are the facts.
Where do you have this numbers from? Do you have them from a official source or is this just guesing? |
Rakshasa Taisab
Caldari Sane Industries Inc. Ursa Stellar Initiative
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Posted - 2009.01.18 20:00:00 -
[15]
Classic client is being discontinued, so either you get premium on linux or hit in the back of the head with a bat.
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maltari
Caldari Adhocracy Incorporated
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Posted - 2009.01.18 20:56:00 -
[16]
We'll just continue to use wine to get good performance and support then :-)
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Aurix Lexico
Slacker Industries
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Posted - 2009.01.18 22:44:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Rakshasa Taisab Classic client is being discontinued, so either you get premium on linux or hit in the back of the head with a bat.
Protip: if you're going to try to troll people, be knowledgeable about what they're talking about. (we have had premium graphics for about a year now, thanks to everyone at the wine project) |
Ancy Denaries
Caldari Solaris Operations
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Posted - 2009.01.19 12:47:00 -
[18]
Premium Lite is going to run on SM2, which Wine does just fine, and afaik Cedega aswell. So we DO get Premium Lite, at the very least. However for the kickass premium, can't say...
Balance is important, but you will always adapt to changing circumstances and you don't whine about stuff you can't change. |
Sevarus James
Minmatar Gradient Electus Matari
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Posted - 2009.01.20 01:57:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Ancy Denaries Premium Lite is going to run on SM2, which Wine does just fine, and afaik Cedega aswell. So we DO get Premium Lite, at the very least. However for the kickass premium, can't say...
As wine is already working on dx10 implementation and the current full blown dx9 premium works almost flawlessly now (excepting shadows), I don't see any real problems with the upcoming engines.
As I've mentioned elsewhere before, Crossover has thrown the gauntlet and publicly said (on their site) that EVE is OFFICIALLY SUPPORTED, we will be able to use the EVE client wine wine/crossover games regardless of the support (as much sarcasm here as possible) from CCP.
And with sm2 > sm3 support, we will have more choices than we currently do as to how to run the client.
Updated Ubuntu Compiz-Linux Desktop+EVE Premium |
Ravow
Minmatar Born for minning Aeon Empire
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Posted - 2009.01.20 17:09:00 -
[20]
The Premium client under WINE work good with an Nvidia card. With a ATI one, we get invisible ship :(
/me pray for a working Premium lite under WINE.
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Marcus Arelios
Caldari Global Sheep Enterprises
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Posted - 2009.01.22 22:54:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Ravow The Premium client under WINE work good with an Nvidia card. With a ATI one, we get invisible ship :(
/me pray for a working Premium lite under WINE.
I pity anyone that uses an ATI card with linux. Not that it can't work, but its so much more tricky. |
Glengrant
TOHA Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2009.01.25 13:21:00 -
[22]
Why worry about the official linux client when the windows version plus WINE worked better all the time and already supports premium?
This is how it looks to me: Cedega forked from wine years ago and did their own thing - concentrating on DirectX and some install comfort. And for a while things were good for Cedega and the provided real added value for gamers.
Meanwhile wine developed on very fast - with way more people looking at its code and providing patches and better integration into desktops distros like Ubuntu made things more confortable (doubleclick on setup.exe and you often good to go - looks familier enough to a windows user).
And now Cedega can no longer keep up with the quick pace of wine development.
Just my impression from what I gathered.
Anyway - windows EVE + wine has worked better than cedega-wrapped offcial linux eve all the time.
CCP should switch to paying the same amount of money to cedega programmers (I'm sure they are competent with this stuff) to provide wine patches where needed and test in time for new expansions and maintain "official" packages for the most popular distros (Ubuntu, Fedora/RH, Suse). Cedega programmers still get paid, CCP still can say they support Linux customers and players get best available EVE on linux. Or dump Cedega and talk to Crossover again (wouldn't be surprised if Crossover and Cedega merge one of these days anyway - I'd prefer the competition between the 2 - but I don't see Cedega surviving long without big changes). --- Save the forum: Think before you post. ISK BUYER = LOSER EVE TV- Bring it back! Playing on Inspiron 9400 Laptop - 2GHz, |
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