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Tank CEO
Caldari Dark Cartel
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Posted - 2009.01.11 06:17:00 -
[1]
There are many things that I have a problem with caldari.. Im just going to post my thoughts and have you people decide whats balanced. Today, the way eve is, ships are about EHP. Now, I have always been lonewolf back in the day and now thats really not possible, at least not fun anymore cause you get your ass kicked.
Since ship set ups are based on the best EHP, obviously people fit plates/shield extenders in PVP. For PVE, where damage can be controlled, armor reps and shield boosters are used. CCP's attempt to make caldari more and more like turrets is going downhill in my opinion.
First off, I want to talk about Shield Extenders. I beleive they need to be rebalanced ship signature penalty wise. I was goofing off on the Test server last night and a good EHP Caracal for example had 300 signature radius.. Now honestly, the point of people flying smaller ships is for the advantage of having a small ship sig.. Basically, the more extenders you fit, the easier your going to be hit by bigger ships and personally it destroys the whole point and not worth it. Comparison:
1600mm Plate: 4,200HP - Penalty - Increased Mass - Slower Acceleration, Less Agility (lol, big whoop) Large Shield Extender: 2,625 HP, 25m Sig Bonus (on smaller ships, thats a big penalty)
O yea heres the best part, The rolled tungsten gives the same amount of armor as the tech 2, but less mass and less fitting. The Large-F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction is less fitting requirements, yes, but also, less shield, only 2,250 HP. Now im not saying nerf plates, im just saying, please, choose a different penalty for LSE to be more balanced with armor plates, at least.
The reason I mentioned this is that now Rage, Fury missiles also increase the sig radius of ships, further increasing their vulnerability to larger ships. Heres a list of penalties for missiles now (t2).
Sig Radius increase per missile launcher Anything faster then 93m/s (Hvy Assault Missile) dmg is reduced ontop of the sig radius dmg reduction (while turrets can pop frigates (medium weapon pulse for example) with a just a web on him or not having a transversal velocity). Caldari ships have the lowest DPS due to the fact that their missiles hit, well, more and more you try to make missiles like turrets, you need to compensate and increase the DPS Caldari missile boats have the worst ship bonuses ever in my opinion, specifically the dmg bonus to just kinetic missiles, which all my fits, I have the highest kinetic resistance and in real pvp, you don't change out your missiles to the best dmging one unless your doing a 1v1. Caldari ships are incapible to fit lock down modules because 1 or 2 medium slots used for a afterburner/warp dis is devastating to our tank, and CCP has made changes to cadlari long ago to preventthem from fitting a proper armor tank set up. Caldari missile boats are terrible fleet set ups due to the fact that missiles take time to hit, instead of instant hit for turrets. It is a big weakness.
So you decide, is caldari really balanced? Are large shield extenders really balanced? You tell me. I would suggest constructive ways to fix this problem, but CCP isn't going to listen to me. All I can do is make this post, a whine, there I said it so you don't have too, so that maybe CCP will wake up and look into caldari and fix it the next upcoming patch because to be honest, im done with caldari. After 6 years of flyin them, I won't fly them again until a change is made to make them balanced with the other ships. So you people vote:
IS CALDARI MISSILE BOATS BALANCED? ARE SHIELD EXTENDERS BALANCED COMPARED TO 1600MM PLATES?
POST YOUR ANSWER - Yes or No.
I vote NO! to both Questions.
P.S. DIE to all you a-holes that say I ebayed my account. |
Ladie RRama
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Posted - 2009.01.11 06:21:00 -
[2]
No!, give the Cerb 2 more mids and some PG and CPU! |
Zenst
Gallente North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.01.11 06:29:00 -
[3]
no as sheilds and armour are completely different, I know this from all the times armour complaints have been met with such a response thats its now totaly true.
Armour and sheilds are different.
Now that said the sig hit from extenders was born from the days of uber fast nano-nano ships and thats all changed so that might need revisiting. But as for caldari ships, there are issues in area's, when did you last see a eagle used. But all races have there black-sheep ship. |
SniperWo1f
Omega Enterprises 0mega Factor
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Posted - 2009.01.11 06:33:00 -
[4]
well as a counter point to what you said last night a corp mate in a drake passive tanked aggroed three loot thieves . they then returned in a domi-sleipnir-scorp and couldn't kill him . now we are talking about two battleships and a command ship not being able to destroy a single tech 1 BC .
Deos that seem fair? |
Trader20
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Posted - 2009.01.11 06:36:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Trader20 on 11/01/2009 06:40:53 1st?-Yes 2nd?-No Possible solution. X-Large shield extender. (raw stats, feel free to tweak) 5000 shield hp sigradius: +50 I want to see a nice buffer tank raven or rohk but using lse for a bs sized ship is kind of weak.
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Bellum Eternus
Gallente Death of Virtue
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Posted - 2009.01.11 06:37:00 -
[6]
I vote NO. Passive shield tanks are way overpowered, and missiles are too good. They need to be nerfed. |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.01.11 06:37:00 -
[7]
Shield extenders... Perfectly balanced ? No way. Imbalanced to the point of needing urgent tweaking ? Not really.
As for the missileboats in general, I'd argue that the only two balanced missile systems (or, reasonably well balanced anyway) are the battleship ones, and the four lower ones need some serious tweaking. And the capital cruise missiles are completely absent, they should start existing sooner rather than later.
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Tank CEO
Caldari Dark Cartel
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Posted - 2009.01.11 06:40:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Trader20 Edited by: Trader20 on 11/01/2009 06:37:23 1st ?- Yes 2nd ?-No Possible solution. X-Large shield extender. (raw stats, feel free to tweak) 5000 shield hp sigradius: +50
The sig radius penalty needs to be remove or reduced significantly. If plate only takes a agility hit, then ****, give us something similar. The sig radius penalty negates the point of even extending your shields because all it does it make you more vulnerable to fire from bigger weapons, therefore, taking in more damage... |
Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2009.01.11 06:43:00 -
[9]
Oh wow. What an unintelligent, noob post.
Where's my XL armor repairer? Active all resistance armor hardening module? Armor repairer boost amplifier module?
WHY DOESN'T MY ARMOR PASSIVELY RECHARGE? I'M TANK CEO, I DON'T KNOW **** ABOUT GAME MECHANICS. CAPS AT THE END OF A POST MAKES ME LOOK KEWL. |
Trader20
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Posted - 2009.01.11 06:44:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Tank CEO
Originally by: Trader20 Edited by: Trader20 on 11/01/2009 06:37:23 1st ?- Yes 2nd ?-No Possible solution. X-Large shield extender. (raw stats, feel free to tweak) 5000 shield hp sigradius: +50
The sig radius penalty needs to be remove or reduced significantly. If plate only takes a agility hit, then ****, give us something similar. The sig radius penalty negates the point of even extending your shields because all it does it make you more vulnerable to fire from bigger weapons, therefore, taking in more damage...
...flying a bs with ur mwd on gives you twice the sig of a dread so I'm not to worried about my sig rad in a bs |
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Trader20
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Posted - 2009.01.11 06:46:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Vaal Erit Oh wow. What an unintelligent, noob post.
Where's my XL armor repairer? Active all resistance armor hardening module? Armor repairer boost amplifier module?
WHY DOESN'T MY ARMOR PASSIVELY RECHARGE? I'M TANK CEO, I DON'T KNOW **** ABOUT GAME MECHANICS. CAPS AT THE END OF A POST MAKES ME LOOK KEWL.
Umm tank is better then you at pvp so I would stfu if I was you. |
Opertone
Caldari Gladiators of Rage Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.01.11 06:46:00 -
[12]
No an No
Caldari miss XL shield Extender...
then caldari idea is just crap...
there is no PVP outside 30 km range... because of the nature of warp drive. Caldari ships are geared towards 80 km optimal for cruisers and 150 for hacs. And 250 for Battleships.
How is this meant to work? and factor in missile flight time too, and caldari only get velocity and optimal bonuses, they can't go for damage if they wanted too.
The only ship in line with 30 km bubble PVP is caldari raven with torpedoes, which isn't too good because of 0% EM hole, lack of medium slots and poor combat effectiveness at close ranges.
Caldari and optimal are just crap, because it doesn't happen, doesn't work... warp drive needs to be totally changed. So that sniper combat, range, speed, actual distance start to play a role.
Now most important role is played, by EHP and damage output. Plate tank and DPS, little below that is lock time and tackle. Even less is electronic warfare.
Optimal and missiles aren't on the list. Range of engagement is limited to 30 kms. Caldari as a concept are out of the game.
Shield tanking could be viable if there wasn't a 30 km sphere rule... if you are out of 30 kms your target warps of. If your target can't warp off, you do much more damage within 30 kms.
Intoroduce no warp zone if your cap isn't charging. Let warp drive charge from cap, so if are in combat and waste cap, it takes you longer to charge up the warp drive. So that actual PvP at range without scram can take place.
currenlty range is a joke, when entire fleet can land on top of you.
if only sniper setups were possible, and they may be, if there no warp zones... maybe then we get MWD knights, vs long range archers, gallente vs caldari.
Tank Crusaders vs Barbarian skirmishers, ammar vs minimatar.
Today it is i has point on you, so my 15 mates land on top of you and deal DPS... ignoring range speed and everything.
Ships should not be able to warp once they PvP, or there should be 400 km no warp zone... well maybe till the fight is over.
Real fighting can be seen in alliance tournament, in space it's catch one of them and gank him with all your might. Or a bar brawl at 30 km range, multiple skull breaking with no tactics. Big messy dog cat ball.
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Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2009.01.11 06:51:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Vaal Erit on 11/01/2009 06:51:33
Originally by: Trader20
Originally by: Vaal Erit Oh wow. What an unintelligent, noob post.
Where's my XL armor repairer? Active all resistance armor hardening module? Armor repairer boost amplifier module?
WHY DOESN'T MY ARMOR PASSIVELY RECHARGE? I'M TANK CEO, I DON'T KNOW **** ABOUT GAME MECHANICS. CAPS AT THE END OF A POST MAKES ME LOOK KEWL.
Umm tank is better then you at pvp so I would stfu if I was you.
Tank CEO hasn't played in over 2 years. I could fly circles around him and pod him while he is wondering wtf is with these new blue scramblers. Have you read recent Tank CEO posts? He is clueless. Take this thread for example. --
http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html
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SniperWo1f
Omega Enterprises 0mega Factor
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Posted - 2009.01.11 06:52:00 -
[14]
In a way i think that caldari pilots and minmatar pilots have seperatly only half their potential but teamed up minmatar webs and painters with caldari shields and missiles make a damned impressive showing in combat .
"In Rust We Trust"
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Trader20
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Posted - 2009.01.11 06:54:00 -
[15]
The funny thing is if you took drones out of the fight the torp raven does more dps with 3x range against a mega. So Caldari bs-level pvp is just fine.
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Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators Chubby Chuppers Chubba Chups
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Posted - 2009.01.11 06:55:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Vaal Erit Where's my XL armor repairer? Active all resistance armor hardening module? Armor repairer boost amplifier module? WHY DOESN'T MY ARMOR PASSIVELY RECHARGE?
This
SKUNK
Originally by: CCP Navigator
People who think I am joking or talking big are going to understand very quickly that there will be order
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Trader20
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Posted - 2009.01.11 06:56:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Vaal Erit Edited by: Vaal Erit on 11/01/2009 06:51:33
Originally by: Trader20
Originally by: Vaal Erit Oh wow. What an unintelligent, noob post.
Where's my XL armor repairer? Active all resistance armor hardening module? Armor repairer boost amplifier module?
WHY DOESN'T MY ARMOR PASSIVELY RECHARGE? I'M TANK CEO, I DON'T KNOW **** ABOUT GAME MECHANICS. CAPS AT THE END OF A POST MAKES ME LOOK KEWL.
Umm tank is better then you at pvp so I would stfu if I was you.
Tank CEO hasn't played in over 2 years. I could fly circles around him and pod him while he is wondering wtf is with these new blue scramblers. Have you read recent Tank CEO posts? He is clueless. Take this thread for example.
Yea something is up with his recent posts, he was leet back in the day but I think he senile or something? |
Trader20
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Posted - 2009.01.11 07:02:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Vaal Erit Oh wow. What an unintelligent, noob post.
Where's my XL armor repairer? Active all resistance armor hardening module? Armor repairer boost amplifier module?
WHY DOESN'T MY ARMOR PASSIVELY RECHARGE? I'M TANK CEO, I DON'T KNOW **** ABOUT GAME MECHANICS. CAPS AT THE END OF A POST MAKES ME LOOK KEWL.
XL armor rep: good point, their should be an XL armor rep All res armor hrdnr: EANM and DCU? Armor rep booster: rigs:nanopump
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Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2009.01.11 07:07:00 -
[19]
I hear it all the time that Tank CEO was an epic PvPer, but I just don't see it. Tank CEO was involved in one of the best EVE videos ever, where a miner gets ganked and rants and raves and goes nuts at them over TS. But the kicker there is that Tank CEO wasn't even the guy who popped him afaik, Tank CEO was just egging him on.
I don't see how someone who kills macro haulers all day an epic pvper, maybe standards have dropped? I consider Le Skunk to be a very good PvPer, I've seen his camps and stuff and he knows his ****. |
Tank CEO
Caldari Dark Cartel
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Posted - 2009.01.11 07:13:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Tank CEO on 11/01/2009 07:15:45
Originally by: Vaal Erit Edited by: Vaal Erit on 11/01/2009 06:51:33
Originally by: Trader20
Originally by: Vaal Erit Oh wow. What an unintelligent, noob post.
Where's my XL armor repairer? Active all resistance armor hardening module? Armor repairer boost amplifier module?
WHY DOESN'T MY ARMOR PASSIVELY RECHARGE? I'M TANK CEO, I DON'T KNOW **** ABOUT GAME MECHANICS. CAPS AT THE END OF A POST MAKES ME LOOK KEWL.
Umm tank is better then you at pvp so I would stfu if I was you.
Tank CEO hasn't played in over 2 years. I could fly circles around him and pod him while he is wondering wtf is with these new blue scramblers. Have you read recent Tank CEO posts? He is clueless. Take this thread for example.
Ill take your 4.3k armor in exchange for 2.6k shield with a crappy shield recharge rate and a 25m sig bonus so you get totally pwned easier by bigger ships.
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Tank CEO
Caldari Dark Cartel
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Posted - 2009.01.11 07:17:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Vaal Erit I hear it all the time that Tank CEO was an epic PvPer, but I just don't see it. Tank CEO was involved in one of the best EVE videos ever, where a miner gets ganked and rants and raves and goes nuts at them over TS. But the kicker there is that Tank CEO wasn't even the guy who popped him afaik, Tank CEO was just egging him on.
I don't see how someone who kills macro haulers all day an epic pvper, maybe standards have dropped? I consider Le Skunk to be a very good PvPer, I've seen his camps and stuff and he knows his ****.
A lonewolf pilot has come back to a now team oriented/required game.
Teamspeak Rumble Recording! Vote for homepage
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Frug
Repo Industries
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Posted - 2009.01.11 07:21:00 -
[22]
Give caldari a better HAM platform... and by this I mean, make hams not suck, and the whole race will be fine. - - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - If you think I'm awesome, say BOOO BOOO!! - Ductoris Neat look what I found - Kreul Hey, my marbles |
Rakshasa Taisab
Caldari Sane Industries Inc. Ursa Stellar Initiative
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Posted - 2009.01.11 07:44:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Trader20 The funny thing is if you took drones out of the fight the torp raven does more dps with 3x range against a mega. So Caldari bs-level pvp is just fine.
If you took missiles out of the fight, an ibis could do more damage than a torp raven.
With QR, sig radius suddenly became a major factor in tanking. That the caldari penalty on sig radius made things unbalanced should not be such a controversial statement. |
Alexandra Knight
Gallente Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2009.01.11 08:04:00 -
[24]
Here we go again |
Trader20
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Posted - 2009.01.11 08:30:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Rakshasa Taisab
Originally by: Trader20 The funny thing is if you took drones out of the fight the torp raven does more dps with 3x range against a mega. So Caldari bs-level pvp is just fine.
If you took missiles out of the fight, an ibis could do more damage than a torp raven.
With QR, sig radius suddenly became a major factor in tanking. That the caldari penalty on sig radius made things unbalanced should not be such a controversial statement.
On most pvp bs you will be fitting a mwd. A bs with a mwd activated has twice the sig of a dread so I don't think you'll have to worry about a little extra sig from lse. Also your raven ibis statement is wrong becasue a raven would still outdamage the ibis with his drones so u=owntd. |
Bumbum George
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Posted - 2009.01.11 08:37:00 -
[26]
Ebay Tank is far inferior to the original Tank
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flashfreaking
LFC Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2009.01.11 08:41:00 -
[27]
New Vote: Is Tank CEO senile: (I vote NO) Is this the original Tank CEO: (I vote NO)
Thank you for your time
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Gierling
Gallente Viper Squad
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Posted - 2009.01.11 08:43:00 -
[28]
Much as I Hate to admit it, I see some of Tank's pain here.
CCP has consistently decided to make Caldari play by different rules then the rest of the races and it just works less and less as time goes on.
Missilles require far more hand holding to get to work right then turrets and Shield tanking is stuck in this abyss where it is utterly useless until you've spent several billion isk, at which point it pwns and pwns hard.
I'm a gallente SPec but I got to think theres a better way, maybe an inertia and/or top speed penalty for extenders would work better?
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Sera Ryskin
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Posted - 2009.01.11 08:48:00 -
[29]
Shield extenders are just fine. In fact, they are more than fine, as shield tanking is currently so much better than armor tanking that even ships like the Harbinger are better with shield tanks instead of armor.
Hint: 3x damage mods are just as mandatory as MWD/point.
Hint, part II: speed is life, and it has nothing to do with tanking. Plates/rigs = you are slow = you die. |
Haakelen
Gallente Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2009.01.11 08:49:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Bellum Eternus I vote NO. Passive shield tanks are way overpowered, and missiles are too good. They need to be nerfed.
This. |
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