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Kahrlena
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Posted - 2009.01.15 18:07:00 -
[1]
Just like the nano battle now theres the falcon battle..fortunatley u guys kept us somewhat informed on the takings of the speed nerf.. let us try it out and poof u have a good out put,,now no more nano whines.So CCP is the falcon out of whack..or is it "working as intended"
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Murina
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2009.01.15 18:10:00 -
[2]
Originally by: Kahrlena Just like the nano battle now theres the falcon battle..fortunatley u guys kept us somewhat informed on the takings of the speed nerf.. let us try it out and poof u have a good out put,,now no more nano whines.So CCP is the falcon out of whack..or is it "working as intended"
It is a non-issue tbh, its just a very few whiners spamming the forums with threads hoping that it looks like the issue has more support than it actually has.
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Dark Soldat
Caldari Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2009.01.15 18:10:00 -
[3]
There isnt any issue *jedi wave arm thing again* Don`t you just hate when people force you to read their signature before you realize you are reading it? |
Jonas Barcal
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.01.15 18:13:00 -
[4]
Meh I hate repeating myself..
All these questions will probably not get any attention (whether they need it or not) until after T3 is out the door and more than likely Walking In Stations also.
People on these forums have been asking for a complete mechanic change not a 'nerf' to a percentage so that takes alot of time and effort.
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Zeba
Minmatar Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2009.01.15 18:18:00 -
[5]
I have yet to see any real falcon threadnaughts with content just endless lolthreads from kiddies who got jammed and didn't like it so therefore falcon=op so why would ccp even bother replying?
inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan |
Kahrlena
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Posted - 2009.01.15 18:29:00 -
[6]
Because whether you die hard falcon fans believe it or not sorry to say this but "It is an issue" Enough people are talking about it to make it an issue. Man do i remember the hate feeling when they was going to apply the speed nerf. I belived it wasnt an issue but it was just like the falcon issue. No matter how many time You personally deny it, enough people are saying that it is an issue. |
Jonas Barcal
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.01.15 18:30:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Kahrlena Because whether you die hard falcon fans believe it or not sorry to say this but "It is an issue" Enough people are talking about it to make it an issue. Man do i remember the hate feeling when they was going to apply the speed nerf. I belived it wasnt an issue but it was just like the falcon issue. No matter how many time You personally deny it, enough people are saying that it is an issue.
Yes Yes and I said you'll have to wait as CCP is busy making me some eye candy. |
Zeba
Minmatar Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2009.01.15 18:34:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Kahrlena No matter how many time You personally deny it, enough people are saying that it is an issue.
Yes because the same 20 annoyed vocal players with an agenda and an army of alt poasters is 'enough' to make it an issue. |
Murina
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2009.01.15 18:37:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Zeba
Originally by: Kahrlena No matter how many time You personally deny it, enough people are saying that it is an issue.
Yes because the same 20 annoyed vocal players with an agenda and an army of alt poasters is 'enough' to make it an issue.
/signed
A few threads full of content is a sign of a interesting topic, but ppl posting thread after thread with no content just shows clearly as day that its a few sad trolls spamming the forums with alts hoping to make the issue larger than it actually is. |
Kahrlena
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Posted - 2009.01.15 18:49:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Murina
Originally by: Zeba
Originally by: Kahrlena No matter how many time You personally deny it, enough people are saying that it is an issue.
Yes because the same 20 annoyed vocal players with an agenda and an army of alt poasters is 'enough' to make it an issue.
/signed
A few threads full of content is a sign of a interesting topic, but ppl posting thread after thread with no content just shows clearly as day that its a few sad trolls spamming the forums with alts hoping to make the issue larger than it actually is.
I have to disagree, I have seen alot of people post good content threads with mathematical equations and all to support there claims. unless you can give better information or theorys then those posted claims, You cant possible discredit the claims or view them as crying none content threads.
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baltec1
R.U.S.T. Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.01.15 18:57:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Kahrlena
Originally by: Murina
Originally by: Zeba
Originally by: Kahrlena No matter how many time You personally deny it, enough people are saying that it is an issue.
Yes because the same 20 annoyed vocal players with an agenda and an army of alt poasters is 'enough' to make it an issue.
/signed
A few threads full of content is a sign of a interesting topic, but ppl posting thread after thread with no content just shows clearly as day that its a few sad trolls spamming the forums with alts hoping to make the issue larger than it actually is.
I have to disagree, I have seen alot of people post good content threads with mathematical equations and all to support there claims. unless you can give better information or theorys then those posted claims, You cant possible discredit the claims or view them as crying none content threads.
I can because what they say just doesnt happen to me in game.
If I fit an ECM on my geddon I dont get perma jamed, I dont even get jammed 50% of the time. My bomber has yet to fail at driving off or killing a falcon and I have encountered very few at their max range.
The falcon is not at falt its the people failing to adapt. |
Murina
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2009.01.15 19:00:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Murina on 15/01/2009 19:01:48
Originally by: Kahrlena
Originally by: Murina
Originally by: Zeba
Originally by: Kahrlena No matter how many time You personally deny it, enough people are saying that it is an issue.
Yes because the same 20 annoyed vocal players with an agenda and an army of alt poasters is 'enough' to make it an issue.
/signed
A few threads full of content is a sign of a interesting topic, but ppl posting thread after thread with no content just shows clearly as day that its a few sad trolls spamming the forums with alts hoping to make the issue larger than it actually is.
I have to disagree, I have seen alot of people post good content threads with mathematical equations and all to support there claims. unless you can give better information or theorys then those posted claims, You cant possible discredit the claims or view them as crying none content threads.
If what you say is true then their would be no need for so many alts starting so many threads.
Even you yourself posted a thread about ECM disguised as a request for info but after reading your responses to input from ppl who think falcons/ecm are fine you are obviously a nerf supporter and were before you even started this thread.
And as to the facts and figures all they are is simple math that everybody knows already anyway, they prove nothing as far as ECM being overpowered is concerned, as only in game combat can do that and the fact is that falcons and gangs with them die regularly every day to gang with and without other falcons in them. |
Noisrevbus
Caldari Breams Gone Wild
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Posted - 2009.01.15 19:10:00 -
[13]
See, Kahrlena, this very thread displays why there isn't any headway in the discussion.
The primary concerns by the 'anti falcon' side have already been adressed by the 'pro falcon' side, and as threads surface and resurface there aren't really any new arguments to be read. The discussion have stranded around wether ECCM is viable as a defense (and wether giving up multiple midslots for a defense is acceptable) and also if support-sniping is viable as a counter to ECM ships (read: Falcons) or not. Where the only counter-argument to people posting support-sniping setups and strategies have been "it doesn't work" (or "it doesn't work well enough") from the opposing side.
Past that point, despite 50 new threads, i have not seen any new constructive discussion. |
Kahrlena
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Posted - 2009.01.15 19:11:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Kahrlena on 15/01/2009 19:13:28 Edited by: Kahrlena on 15/01/2009 19:12:47 Aye, I do think they need to be balance, Im not trying to hide that fact, but there no descent reason I can give besides I hate being removed from a fight indefintely by a single ship until im space dust. That why I believe the developers need to state what they believe to clear confusion. The claim about everyone posting with alts..meh i think its just how people respond. Myself im just trying to sell this toon, while I fight a war with my main |
Colonel Xaven
Decadence. RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2009.01.15 19:13:00 -
[15]
Most pilots do not care about the forums. What is discussed here are opinions of a handful of players. I really hope CCP goes an independent way and does not get blinded by few players who try to look like many using topic spam.
In fact, there is no "issue", there is more a Falcon dislike or a dislike to ECM at all. |
Eternum Praetorian
Tupperware Party
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Posted - 2009.01.15 19:51:00 -
[16]
Yes, history repeats itself.
You don't see it happening again your blind simple as that. And the nano nerf was kind of a surprise was it not? Everyone was like "whats with this patch" and then "oh so this is the nerf...that was way sooner then expected"
There is little reason why a real quick hit to a Falcons bonus or range could not be made at anytime. And yes, every single person I know (most of which have never posted here) thinks they are overpowered.
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Major Celine
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Posted - 2009.01.15 19:53:00 -
[17]
Well, every single person I know think Falcons and ECM are fine. And now?
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Amira Shadowsong
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.01.15 20:08:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Murina
It is a non-issue tbh, its just a very few whiners spamming the forums with threads hoping that it looks like the issue has more support than it actually has.
It's an issue and no, we won't let you keep your only win button. You'll need some skill after we fix ecm and falcons. Afraid much? |
Major Celine
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Posted - 2009.01.15 20:11:00 -
[19]
ECM won't be touched afaik, maybe Falcons will and maybe ECCM. You won't stop whining after the next patch. |
Murina
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2009.01.15 20:13:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Amira Shadowsong
Originally by: Murina
It is a non-issue tbh, its just a very few whiners spamming the forums with threads hoping that it looks like the issue has more support than it actually has.
ad hom...ect ect
I find falcons fun and interesting to deal with, if you cannot handle them its your skill that is lacking...oh thats right your leaving to play a easier game aint ya... |
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Major Celine
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Posted - 2009.01.15 20:16:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Amira Shadowsong It's an issue and no, we won't let you keep your only win button. You'll need some skill after we fix ecm and falcons. Afraid much?
More tank and dps skills? How interesting! |
Arous Drephius
Perkone
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Posted - 2009.01.15 20:16:00 -
[22]
There is no issue. |
Amira Shadowsong
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.01.15 20:16:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Murina
I find falcons fun and interesting to deal with, if you cannot handle them its your skill that is lacking...oh thats right your leaving to play a easier game aint ya...
Why would I need to handle it myself? I am in a falcon of my own. I'm almost max skilled in it aswell. |
Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.01.15 20:17:00 -
[24]
there is no issue |
Gnomes Rock
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Posted - 2009.01.15 20:20:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Murina
I find falcons fun
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Murina
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2009.01.15 20:23:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Murina on 15/01/2009 20:24:41
Originally by: Gnomes Rock
Originally by: Murina
I find falcons fun and interesting to deal with, if you cannot handle them its your skill that is lacking...
Fail edit tbh, so i fixed it for ya.
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Amira Shadowsong
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.01.15 20:26:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Murina
I can't pvp without my overpowered falcon.
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Gnomes Rock
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Posted - 2009.01.15 20:28:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Murina
Fail edit tbh, so i fixed it for ya.
You're saying you don't find falcons fun then? |
Major Celine
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Posted - 2009.01.15 20:34:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Amira Shadowsong Why wouldn't I be able to handle it? I am in a falcon of my own. I'm almost max skilled in it aswell.
Funny thing: Seems that every Falcon hater is a Falcon pilot. |
Birkinz
Caldari Mitsukashi Holdings Limited
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Posted - 2009.01.15 20:34:00 -
[30]
Out of 300K subscribers its pretty likely that there will always be players that are not satisfied.
There will always be powerful tactics or the game will suck, therefore the lamers will always get pwned, never counter it and constantly whine. Changing the Falcon will not stop that, just move it to something else.
The people that are happy and playing the game don't post "wow i's so happy with the balance at the moment" (me) so it looks like there is more dissatisfaction then there is.
also empty vessels make the most noise...... |
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baltec1
R.U.S.T. Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.01.15 20:38:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Amira Shadowsong
Originally by: Murina
It is a non-issue tbh, its just a very few whiners spamming the forums with threads hoping that it looks like the issue has more support than it actually has.
It's an issue and no, we won't let you keep your only win button. You'll need some skill after we fix ecm and falcons. Afraid much?
No because a falcon nerf will make my life easyer. However you will just find something else to whine about, probably the pilgrim. |
Murina
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2009.01.15 20:39:00 -
[32]
Edited by: Murina on 15/01/2009 20:40:45
Originally by: Gnomes Rock
Originally by: Murina
Fail edit tbh, so i fixed it for ya.
You're saying you don't find falcons fun then?
Your saying you cannot read exactly what i wrote?. |
Gnomes Rock
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Posted - 2009.01.15 20:41:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Murina
Your saying you cannot read what i wrote?.
I quoted you saying you liked falcons, and you called it a fail quote.
Out of interest, what size, on average, are your gangs when you fight falcons? And how many falcons do you have on your side for support? |
Murina
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2009.01.15 20:48:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Gnomes Rock
Originally by: Murina
Your saying you cannot read what i wrote?.
I quoted you saying you liked falcons, and you called it a fail quote.
No you snipped the words out of a longer statement.
Originally by: Gnomes Rock Out of interest, what size, on average, are your gangs when you fight falcons? And how many falcons do you have on your side for support?
Varied sizes tbh although i prefer gangs of not really much more than 10 if i can help it and only really one falcon max for tactical jamming, some times none at all as we tend to get into fights out numbered and as such highly mobile hit and run tactics with good range/dmg ratio is much more effective than jams. |
Birkinz
Caldari Mitsukashi Holdings Limited
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Posted - 2009.01.15 20:52:00 -
[35]
Quote: Varied sizes tbh although i prefer gangs of not really much more than 10 if i can help it and only really one falcon max for tactical jamming, some times none at all as we tend to get into fights out numbered and as such highly mobile hit and run tactics with good range/dmg ratio is much more effective than jams.
??? |
Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N.
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Posted - 2009.01.15 20:53:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Murina
Originally by: Kahrlena Just like the nano battle now theres the falcon battle..fortunatley u guys kept us somewhat informed on the takings of the speed nerf.. let us try it out and poof u have a good out put,,now no more nano whines.So CCP is the falcon out of whack..or is it "working as intended"
It is a non-issue tbh, its just a very few whiners spamming the forums with threads hoping that it looks like the issue has more support than it actually has.
This. It's amazing (it's not really amazing) how many of the characters who post falcon/ECM whine threads have
(1) little or no posting history (2) posting styles that a remarkably similar to each other. (3) The same few, tired, repetitive, identically phrased talking points.
At a guess I'd say that around ten, perhaps even as few as half a dozen people are conducting a persistent anti-Falcon campaign. |
Eternum Praetorian
Tupperware Party
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Posted - 2009.01.15 20:54:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Major Celine Well, every single person I know think Falcons and ECM are fine. And now?
Awesome comeback...I am speechless.
Refer to the events leading up to the Nano nerf. |
baltec1
R.U.S.T. Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.01.15 20:55:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Gnomes Rock Edited by: Gnomes Rock on 15/01/2009 20:49:07
Originally by: Murina
Your saying you cannot read what i wrote?.
I quoted you saying you liked falcons, and you called it a fail quote.
Out of interest, what size, on average, are your gangs when you fight falcons? And how many falcons do you have on your side for support?
Edit;
Originally by: baltec1
No because a falcon nerf will make my life easyer. However you will just find something else to whine about, probably the pilgrim.
Didn't you whine for ages about nanos? You can hardly claim a moral highground..
I wanted a slight reduction in the stupid speed of a handfull. Ishtar and zealot speeds I could handle in a battleship with tracking rigs/pulse/H neuts. What we got was a bit over the top.
Falcons are even easyer to kill. I mean for the love of god I can deal with them in a bomber, which I am constantly reminded is a useless ship. Why the hell can I get the job done while your fleets fail? |
Colonel Xaven
Decadence. RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2009.01.15 21:03:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Malcanis This. It's amazing (it's not really amazing) how many of the characters who post falcon/ECM whine threads have
(1) little or no posting history (2) posting styles that a remarkably similar to each other. (3) The same few, tired, repetitive, identically phrased talking points.
At a guess I'd say that around ten, perhaps even as few as half a dozen people are conducting a persistent anti-Falcon campaign.
That's how a handful tries to push an interest by looking like the majority.
Proud member of RZR - Decadence. |
Amira Shadowsong
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.01.15 21:11:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Colonel Xaven
That's how a handful tries to push an interest by looking like the majority.
People in general (people that only play eve and dont even visit the forums) hate ecm and falcons. You think, just because you think the forum people are falcon lovers that it somehow reflects what people think on tranq. This is totally wrong. You WILL see a falcon nerf soon. People used to laugh at me when I said nanos were getting a good nerf soon. Same arguments that failed back then will fail now. You can argue all day about how fair falcons are. Won't make a diff. They are overpowered. Some day we will see the nerf. |
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Murina
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2009.01.15 21:17:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Amira Shadowsong
People used to laugh at me when I said nanos were getting a good nerf soon.
Yea i mean its not like a few YEAR and several game changes went by before that got sorted
Actually ppl laugh at you anyway...2 falcons with split racial fits F.T.luls.
Originally by: Amira Shadowsong You WILL see a falcon nerf soon.
After amarr pulse BS get balanced i bet......and the ppl supporting that had more dignity than to spam the forum with threads with ALTS.....although those against it made a few juvenile trolly threads and got their mains banned...how lyria btw?.. |
Colonel Xaven
Decadence. RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2009.01.15 21:18:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Amira Shadowsong People in general (people that only play eve and dont even visit the forums) hate ecm and falcons. You think, just because you think the forum people are falcon lovers that it somehow reflects what people think on tranq. This is totally wrong. You WILL see a falcon nerf soon. People used to laugh at me when I said nanos were getting a good nerf soon. Same arguments that failed back then will fail now. You can argue all day about how fair falcons are. Won't make a diff. They are overpowered. Some day we will see the nerf.
So tell me sport, you have spoken to every single person in eve? People in general? Your argument looks like pure rage posting.
Tell me again, how will falcons be nerfed? You seem to know.
ECM mechanics won't be changed again and you won't stop crying about it, that's my prophecy.
Proud member of RZR - Decadence. |
Amira Shadowsong
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.01.15 21:22:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Colonel Xaven
Tell me again, how will falcons be nerfed? You seem to know.
ECM mechanics won't be changed again and you won't stop crying about it, that's my prophecy.
CCP is lazy, so they won't change ecm mechanics allthought this is what most people want.
So theyll simply nerf the range and/or strength of falcon jammers. Thats it. My guess.
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Colonel Xaven
Decadence. RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2009.01.15 21:25:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Amira Shadowsong
Originally by: Colonel Xaven
Tell me again, how will falcons be nerfed? You seem to know.
ECM mechanics won't be changed again and you won't stop crying about it, that's my prophecy.
CCP is lazy, so they won't change ecm mechanics allthought this is what most people want.
So theyll simply nerf the range and/or strength of falcon jammers. Thats it. My guess.
Who is "most people"?
Proud member of RZR - Decadence. |
Amira Shadowsong
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.01.15 21:28:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Colonel Xaven
Who is "most people"?
People with skill. I'm surrounded by them. Obviously many of you aren't. |
Opertone
Caldari Gladiators of Rage Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.01.15 21:33:00 -
[46]
it was obvious that after nano and missile nerf, more people would switch to ECM and falcons... caldari have nowhere to go... they can't enjoy npcing the way they used to |
Colonel Xaven
Decadence. RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2009.01.15 21:34:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Amira Shadowsong People with skill. I'm surrounded by them. Obviously many of you aren't.
No, I don't surround you. I just question that you know 200,000 people and know what they think about a particular topic. You don't argue, you spread you opinion and you seem to think that your opinion reflects the whole community.
"People with skill" don't cry so badly about anything special, they adapt. So you are on the wrong way with your rage posts. |
Amira Shadowsong
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.01.15 21:34:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Opertone it was obvious that after nano and missile nerf, more people would switch to ECM and falcons... caldari have nowhere to go... they can't enjoy npcing the way they used to
Caldari NPC with ECM or what does this have to do with ECM? |
Jonas Barcal
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.01.15 21:35:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Amira Shadowsong
Originally by: Opertone it was obvious that after nano and missile nerf, more people would switch to ECM and falcons... caldari have nowhere to go... they can't enjoy npcing the way they used to
Caldari NPC with ECM or what does this have to do with ECM?
Think missiles nerfed so they got bored of missions and decided to be ECM kings in PVP instead. |
Murina
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2009.01.15 21:37:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Amira Shadowsong
Originally by: Colonel Xaven
Who is "most people"?
People with skill. I'm surrounded by them. Obviously many of you aren't.
If you had any skill at all you would find fighting gangs that had falcons in them fun and interesting instead of trying to get them nerfed. |
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SirMoric
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2009.01.15 21:42:00 -
[51]
Look mom, I'm in another anti-Falcon thread:
Information Warfare Link - Sensor Integrity
Ship Equipment: Electronic Warfare: ECCM
Ship Equipment: Electronic Warfare: Projected ECCM
Ship Equipment: Electronic Warfare: Sensor Backup Arrays
rgds Information Warfare Link - Sensor Integrity http://wiki.eveonline.com/wiki/Item_Database:Ship_Equipment:E |
chrisss0r
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Posted - 2009.01.15 21:46:00 -
[52]
if eccm is a valid counter to ecm, why did people not see tank as a valid counter to nanos? :P
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Christari Zuborov
Amarr Ore Mongers
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Posted - 2009.01.15 21:51:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Amira Shadowsong
Originally by: Colonel Xaven
Who is "most people"?
People with skill. I'm surrounded by them. Obviously many of you aren't.
It's a good thing you surround yourself by people with skill... I've seen some of your fits. |
Murina
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2009.01.15 21:53:00 -
[54]
Originally by: chrisss0r if eccm is a valid counter to ecm, why did people not see tank as a valid counter to nanos? :P
Because tank did not reduce the effectiveness of speed.....
Silly comparison tbh. |
Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N.
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Posted - 2009.01.15 22:20:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Murina how is lyria doing btw?..
Sssshhh! We're all pretending we don't know! |
Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N.
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Posted - 2009.01.15 22:21:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Opertone it was obvious that after nano and missile nerf, more people would switch to ECM and falcons... caldari have nowhere to go... they can't enjoy npcing the way they used to
Strange... my missiles work as well as ever for NPCing. |
Lanais Suleia
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Posted - 2009.01.15 22:47:00 -
[57]
Devs have falcon alts. There is no issue. |
Vietone
Gallente Mercury Industries
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Posted - 2009.01.15 23:23:00 -
[58]
Unlike the speed nerf, nano was only counterable by another nano.
ECM however, has viable counters. ECCM has a huge affect. The only issue is that people are fitting their ships for more gank and less tank. So that 20 seconds of a cycle means more.
On a cruiser, a ECCM is highly effective and even more so on a battleship. Anyone who has said otherwise is lying. Sure, you will still get jammed, but also the fact remains is the falcon will more than likely put more jammers on you.
So instead of a flacon using 1 specific jammer, he might have to use all of his jammers as any falcon pilot fits all 4 racials and maybe 1-2 multis. If a falcon pilot has to use his racial and fails, he will fall back on his multis then other racial jammers. SO yeah, you still have a chance to get jammed, but that falcon wont be able to jam multiple targets as easily.
My own falcon with a Tech 2 ECCM gives me 55 strength, I can see the considerable difference it makes compared to when I didnt have it on. I can uncloak with a falcon already in overview and watch as that falcon locks me but cant jam me while I jam him back.
ECM is only viable as ewar on the ships that it gets bonuses from. Kitsune, Falcon, Rook and Scorpion. Otherwise, its completely useless. So it makes sense that the counter, active or passive ECCM is only effective against ECM and nothing else.
All other forms of EWar can be used on any ship but get better with specific ships. Neuts, Warp scramblers, Target Painters, Disrupters, etc, all of them can be fitted on any ship and you would be able to use them, just not as good as the specific ships that boost them. However, ECM is pretty much useless except on the ships that boost them.
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Zeba
Minmatar Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2009.01.15 23:32:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Vietone Unlike the speed nerf, nano was only counterable by another nano.
ECM however, has viable counters. ECCM has a huge affect. The only issue is that people are fitting their ships for more gank and less tank. So that 20 seconds of a cycle means more.
On a cruiser, a ECCM is highly effective and even more so on a battleship. Anyone who has said otherwise is lying. Sure, you will still get jammed, but also the fact remains is the falcon will more than likely put more jammers on you.
So instead of a flacon using 1 specific jammer, he might have to use all of his jammers as any falcon pilot fits all 4 racials and maybe 1-2 multis. If a falcon pilot has to use his racial and fails, he will fall back on his multis then other racial jammers. SO yeah, you still have a chance to get jammed, but that falcon wont be able to jam multiple targets as easily.
My own falcon with a Tech 2 ECCM gives me 55 strength, I can see the considerable difference it makes compared to when I didnt have it on. I can uncloak with a falcon already in overview and watch as that falcon locks me but cant jam me while I jam him back.
ECM is only viable as ewar on the ships that it gets bonuses from. Kitsune, Falcon, Rook and Scorpion. Otherwise, its completely useless. So it makes sense that the counter, active or passive ECCM is only effective against ECM and nothing else.
All other forms of EWar can be used on any ship but get better with specific ships. Neuts, Warp scramblers, Target Painters, Disrupters, etc, all of them can be fitted on any ship and you would be able to use them, just not as good as the specific ships that boost them. However, ECM is pretty much useless except on the ships that boost them.
The logic. It Burns..
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2009.01.15 23:39:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Zeba
Originally by: Vietone Unlike the speed nerf, nano was only counterable by another nano.
ECM however, has viable counters. ECCM has a huge affect. The only issue is that people are fitting their ships for more gank and less tank. So that 20 seconds of a cycle means more.
On a cruiser, a ECCM is highly effective and even more so on a battleship. Anyone who has said otherwise is lying. Sure, you will still get jammed, but also the fact remains is the falcon will more than likely put more jammers on you.
So instead of a flacon using 1 specific jammer, he might have to use all of his jammers as any falcon pilot fits all 4 racials and maybe 1-2 multis. If a falcon pilot has to use his racial and fails, he will fall back on his multis then other racial jammers. SO yeah, you still have a chance to get jammed, but that falcon wont be able to jam multiple targets as easily.
My own falcon with a Tech 2 ECCM gives me 55 strength, I can see the considerable difference it makes compared to when I didnt have it on. I can uncloak with a falcon already in overview and watch as that falcon locks me but cant jam me while I jam him back.
ECM is only viable as ewar on the ships that it gets bonuses from. Kitsune, Falcon, Rook and Scorpion. Otherwise, its completely useless. So it makes sense that the counter, active or passive ECCM is only effective against ECM and nothing else.
All other forms of EWar can be used on any ship but get better with specific ships. Neuts, Warp scramblers, Target Painters, Disrupters, etc, all of them can be fitted on any ship and you would be able to use them, just not as good as the specific ships that boost them. However, ECM is pretty much useless except on the ships that boost them.
The logic. It Burns..
pretty good post, but I got wrecked a few times from multispec fitted battleships in 1v1s |
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Amira Shadowsong
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.01.15 23:39:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Christari Zuborov
It's a good thing you surround yourself by people with skill... I've seen some of your fits.
What fits are you talking about? You mean those named after me because I invented them? What about them?
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Murina
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2009.01.15 23:44:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Amira Shadowsong
Originally by: Christari Zuborov
It's a good thing you surround yourself by people with skill... I've seen some of your fits.
What fits are you talking about? You mean those named after me because I invented them? What about them?
The problem is that if we use the names ppl gave your fits and ideas about pvp the forum filter will block it and we will get banned..
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Lilith Velkor
Minmatar DEATH'S LEGION Red Box.
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Posted - 2009.01.15 23:52:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Amira Shadowsong
Originally by: Christari Zuborov
It's a good thing you surround yourself by people with skill... I've seen some of your fits.
What fits are you talking about? You mean those named after me because I invented them? What about them?
You have quite a few hilarious failboats on battleclinic, but then again who hasnt these...
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Amira Shadowsong
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.01.15 23:54:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Lilith Velkor
You have quite a few hilarious failboats on battleclinic, but then again who hasnt these...
And wich of those are from non-noob days and do you know the intended use of some of them? Does that show on your battleclinic?
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Lilith Velkor
Minmatar DEATH'S LEGION Red Box.
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Posted - 2009.01.15 23:57:00 -
[65]
Edited by: Lilith Velkor on 15/01/2009 23:57:07
Originally by: Amira Shadowsong
Originally by: Lilith Velkor
You have quite a few hilarious failboats on battleclinic, but then again who hasnt these...
And wich of those are from non-noob days and do you know the intended use of some of them? Does that show on your battleclinic?
I couldnt be bothered to go back much in history, we're talking recent losses here.
Still, no offense meant, everyone has these, I've got some on my own.
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Amira Shadowsong
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.01.15 23:58:00 -
[66]
Edited by: Amira Shadowsong on 15/01/2009 23:58:38
Originally by: Lilith Velkor
I couldnt be bothered to go back much in history, we're talking recent losses here.
Still, no offense meant, everyone has these, I've got some on my own.
No really, you accuse me of having crap fits. Show atleast one recent then. It's easy yapping without putting money where the yap is coming from. |
Lilith Velkor
Minmatar DEATH'S LEGION Red Box.
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Posted - 2009.01.16 00:17:00 -
[67]
Imo the last crusader loss on battleclinic is pretty bad fit for example.
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Colonel Xaven
Decadence. RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2009.01.16 00:20:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Lilith Velkor Imo the last crusader loss on battleclinic is pretty bad fit for example.
Well, I have to admit that ECCM is not really possible on a crusader. I can understand the anger in this case...
Proud member of RZR - Decadence. |
Amira Shadowsong
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.01.16 00:23:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Lilith Velkor Imo the last crusader loss on battleclinic is pretty bad fit for example.
And why is that a bad crusader? Have you even bothered to check what I have solo'd in that setup? You obviously haven't because you are making a fool out of yourself right now.
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Lilith Velkor
Minmatar DEATH'S LEGION Red Box.
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Posted - 2009.01.16 00:28:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Amira Shadowsong
Originally by: Lilith Velkor Imo the last crusader loss on battleclinic is pretty bad fit for example.
And why is that a bad crusader? Have you even bothered to check what I have solo'd in that setup? You obviously haven't because you are making a fool out of yourself right now.
Because you wasted a lowslot without need. You use a 20km point without need. You use the inferior mwd type.
I dont dispute you might have soloed countless frigs in FW with that, its still a bad fit though. |
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Amira Shadowsong
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.01.16 00:30:00 -
[71]
Edited by: Amira Shadowsong on 16/01/2009 00:30:56
Originally by: Lilith Velkor
Because you wasted a lowslot without need. You use a 20km point without need. You use the inferior mwd type.
I dont dispute you might have soloed countless frigs in FW with that, its still a bad fit though.
You know things cost isk right? The fit just fine and I've solo'd several cruisers in it and combat ceptors. You are so deep into that pile of crap that you will lie without any limits now to save your face.
There is nothing wrong with that fit.
Oh haha btw 20km point without need? Do you know the range of those pulses? You are such a noob. Sorry. |
Omara Otawan
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Posted - 2009.01.16 00:36:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Amira Shadowsong
Oh haha btw 20km point without need? Do you know the range of those pulses? You are such a noob. Sorry.
Yea, range is another thing that is wrong here, slow as hell and no range is bad, mkay? |
SirMoric
Caldari State War Academy
|
Posted - 2009.01.16 00:41:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Omara Otawan
Originally by: Amira Shadowsong
Oh haha btw 20km point without need? Do you know the range of those pulses? You are such a noob. Sorry.
Yea, range is another thing that is wrong here, slow as hell and no range is bad, mkay?
You lost Omara, she used the "n"-word first....
Always, always use the "n"-word as ealy as possibly in any discussion, if at all possible, see you you can squeeze it into your first post....
rgds |
Lilith Velkor
Minmatar DEATH'S LEGION Red Box.
|
Posted - 2009.01.16 00:41:00 -
[74]
Edited by: Lilith Velkor on 16/01/2009 00:43:25 Edited by: Lilith Velkor on 16/01/2009 00:42:26
Originally by: Amira Shadowsong
Oh haha btw 20km point without need? Do you know the range of those pulses? You are such a noob. Sorry.
The only ceptor where you'll want a 20km point is the claw. (Unless you want a scram that is).
And even if we neglect that, why did you waste (at least, depending on viewpoint) one lowslot again? |
Omara Otawan
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Posted - 2009.01.16 00:45:00 -
[75]
Originally by: SirMoric
You lost Omara, she used the "n"-word first....
I can still call him a n00b, isnt that stronger than noob? |
Amira Shadowsong
Caldari
|
Posted - 2009.01.16 00:50:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Lilith Velkor Edited by: Lilith Velkor on 16/01/2009 00:43:25 Edited by: Lilith Velkor on 16/01/2009 00:42:26
Originally by: Amira Shadowsong
Oh haha btw 20km point without need? Do you know the range of those pulses? You are such a noob. Sorry.
The only ceptor where you'll want a 20km point is the claw. (Unless you want a scram that is).
And even if we neglect that, why did you waste (at least, depending on viewpoint) one lowslot again?
Hahjahahahahha now I see why you all like to gang up against me. You obviously have no clue about fitting a ship for a certain task and therefor fail at eve pvp.
20km point instead of 24km because of cap.
Why would I fit a 9km point on a ship that can reach 14km?
If you don't know why 14km is better then 9km then you might wanna rethink your career choice of being a pvper.
You are absolutely grasping after straws now. Please just do us all a favor, go away. You can't be serious. |
Lilith Velkor
Minmatar DEATH'S LEGION Red Box.
|
Posted - 2009.01.16 01:03:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Amira Shadowsong
20km point instead of 24km because of cap.
Priceless. You realize your Warp Disruptor I uses the same cap/sec as a Warp Disruptor II, right?
Fit a named one for cap (which makes a whopping .2 cap/sec difference), or better yet get a faction scram cheapskate.
Quote:
Why would I fit a 9km point on a ship that can reach 14km?
To disable the other ceptors mwd, and gank the crap outta it with the superior dps and tracking of your light pulses.
If you want to do that, not saying you wanted. I said the only reason not to fit a t2 over a t1 disruptor on ceptors is you want a 9km one.
Quote:
If you don't know why 14km is better then 9km then you might wanna rethink your career choice of being a pvper.
14km isnt that much, you obviously do not dogfight that much with ceptors. Even if you plan on staying at 20km you'll end up at 14 more often than not.
Quote:
You are absolutely grasping after straws now. Please just do us all a favor, go away. You can't be serious.
Sure, whatever you say |
Amira Shadowsong
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.01.16 01:06:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Lilith Velkor
Originally by: Amira Shadowsong
20km point instead of 24km because of cap.
Priceless. You realize your Warp Disruptor I uses the same cap/sec as a Warp Disruptor II, right?
Fit a named one for cap (which makes a whopping .2 cap/sec difference), or better yet get a faction scram cheapskate.
Quote:
Why would I fit a 9km point on a ship that can reach 14km?
To disable the other ceptors mwd, and gank the crap outta it with the superior dps and tracking of your light pulses.
If you want to do that, not saying you wanted. I said the only reason not to fit a t2 over a t1 disruptor on ceptors is you want a 9km one.
Quote:
If you don't know why 14km is better then 9km then you might wanna rethink your career choice of being a pvper.
14km isnt that much, you obviously do not dogfight that much with ceptors. Even if you plan on staying at 20km you'll end up at 14 more often than not.
Quote:
You are absolutely grasping after straws now. Please just do us all a favor, go away. You can't be serious.
Sure, whatever you say
This is a cruiser killer fit and it has a fighting chance against ceptors aswell. I know how to ****ing fit a pure anti inty crusader, I'm not special like you. Problem is that the anti inty fit is absolutely crap against cruisers and AFs. Just friggin admit it, you suck at this game. |
Murina
Gallente The Scope
|
Posted - 2009.01.16 01:13:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Amira Shadowsong
This is a cruiser killer fit and it has a fighting chance against ceptors aswell.
I know how to ****ing fit a pure anti inty crusader, I'm not special like you. Problem is that the anti inty fit is absolutely crap against cruisers and AFs.
Cos solo is all about skill and nothing to do with i-win fits that work great against certain types of ships hey pal.....
So how does it feel now you just PWND yourself?. |
Lilith Velkor
Minmatar DEATH'S LEGION Red Box.
|
Posted - 2009.01.16 01:24:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Amira Shadowsong
This is a cruiser killer fit and it has a fighting chance against ceptors aswell. I know how to ****ing fit a pure anti inty crusader, I'm not special like you. Problem is that the anti inty fit is absolutely crap against cruisers and AFs. Just friggin admit it, you suck at this game.
Any half-competent cruiser pilot would stomp that abomination in seconds tbh.
It has zero chance against inties fitted for dogfight either, and no inty out there takes on a decent AF anyway.
And if it makes you happy, yes I suck at the game. There you go. Doesnt change a thing about this poor poor sader tho.
I guess we can stop derailing here as its pointless, so what about falcons, imo they are pretty ok if this cloak-jam issue got resolved and the Arazu/Lachesis got a boost to the falloff of their RSDs.
Would you think that could be an improvement? |
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ShadowGod56
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Posted - 2009.01.16 01:44:00 -
[81]
boosting the range of the other recons EWAR would solve the problem mainly |
Karrade Krise
Galatic P0RN Starz
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Posted - 2009.01.16 01:46:00 -
[82]
CCP's Response:
Our logs show nothing.
It's working as intended.
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Lilith Velkor
Minmatar DEATH'S LEGION Red Box.
|
Posted - 2009.01.16 01:47:00 -
[83]
Imo range on TDs is fine as it is, TPs could get a boost to optimal+falloff, as well as RSDs though, but best only on the ewar boats. |
SirMoric
Caldari State War Academy
|
Posted - 2009.01.16 01:58:00 -
[84]
I'd say, boost the range of sensor dampeners and tracking disruptors, so that all races get ships that can E-war more or less outside enemy fire.
The sensor dampeners would make most Caldari pilots laugh, cause they still have no problem hitting the E-machine.
And Caldari don't mind tracking disruptors at all.....
Getting more ships that are able to, at a distance, make a difference in battle is always welcome. The "up your nose"-boats are quite boring. But seing a couple of snipers jump in 200 km of a battle supported by a few ships with sensor dampeners, would set a completely different scenario than today.
We need range in our battles, otherwise they just seem like mindless gank-shows.
rgds
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Dray
Caldari Clowns with Downs
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Posted - 2009.01.16 02:00:00 -
[85]
There is nothing wrong with the falcon, the arazu and the lachesis need a bonus to make rsd's effective again, other than that all is good in the world of eve, well almost...
Also quoting myself from another f**king falcon whine "The game is made up of 2 camps now, "those who try" and "those who cry", for the sake of my sanity, all of you, try to be the 1st, please."
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Amira Shadowsong
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.01.16 03:04:00 -
[86]
Edited by: Amira Shadowsong on 16/01/2009 03:04:45
Originally by: Lilith Velkor
Any half-competent cruiser pilot would stomp that abomination in seconds tbh.
It has zero chance against inties fitted for dogfight either, and no inty out there takes on a decent AF anyway.
By your logic I could never win and all fits are crap because you can always counter fit against everything. You are really not making sense and starting to debate at 5 year old level. I have killed cruisers in it. I do not care that there are competent cruisers out there that I might not have killed. Why? Because I'll just disengage if it doesn't go well. You have absolutely no arguments at all. That fit is just fine, you just epically lost this argument and made a huge fool out of yourself and you are trying to troll yourself out of it now. Tough luck.
I mean when 90% of the pilots I face are half assed, why should I not fit for cruiser and inty killing. It's not perfect for either job but it works in 90% of cases. Why do you like failing so bad on the forums mate? |
Warrio
Southern Cross Incorporated
|
Posted - 2009.01.16 04:27:00 -
[87]
Thread lacks direction.
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ShadowGod56
|
Posted - 2009.01.16 06:24:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Amira Shadowsong Edited by: Amira Shadowsong on 16/01/2009 03:04:45
Originally by: Lilith Velkor
Any half-competent cruiser pilot would stomp that abomination in seconds tbh.
It has zero chance against inties fitted for dogfight either, and no inty out there takes on a decent AF anyway.
By your logic I could never win and all fits are crap because you can always counter fit against everything. You are really not making sense and starting to debate at 5 year old level. I have killed cruisers in it. I do not care that there are competent cruisers out there that I might not have killed. Why? Because I'll just disengage if it doesn't go well. You have absolutely no arguments at all. That fit is just fine, you just epically lost this argument and made a huge fool out of yourself and you are trying to troll yourself out of it now. Tough luck.
I mean when 90% of the pilots I face are half assed, why should I not fit for cruiser and inty killing. It's not perfect for either job but it works in 90% of cases. Why do you like failing so bad on the forums mate?
congrats your going off topic
**Back on earth**
also i think what might help the other recons is if they were more specialized
such as all the combat recons focus on damage bonuses and there secondary EWAR, and all the force recons focus on there primary EWAR and cloaking |
BurnYaBad
Rogue Shadow Squad Axiom Empire
|
Posted - 2009.01.16 06:30:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Kahrlena Just like the nano battle now theres the falcon battle..fortunatley u guys kept us somewhat informed on the takings of the speed nerf.. let us try it out and poof u have a good out put,,now no more nano whines.So CCP is the falcon out of whack..or is it "working as intended"
Your a ****ing moron, and your whinny ***** ass can try all you wweeeee lil can to get a nerf, but it aint happening.
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BurnYaBad
Rogue Shadow Squad Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2009.01.16 06:32:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Kahrlena Because whether you die hard falcon fans believe it or not sorry to say this but "It is an issue" Enough people are talking about it to make it an issue. Man do i remember the hate feeling when they was going to apply the speed nerf. I belived it wasnt an issue but it was just like the falcon issue. No matter how many time You personally deny it, enough people are saying that it is an issue.
MOMMy save me, a falconw ith no dps, no drones, no missles and no damage out put jammed me, no fair cpp, waaaaaaaaaahhh nerf it cause i suck **** and am a ****ing assllicking ***** and refuse to counter ecm, save me ccp from my ***got little self
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Amira Shadowsong
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.01.16 09:44:00 -
[91]
Originally by: ShadowGod56
congrats your going off topic
**Back on earth**
also i think what might help the other recons is if they were more specialized
such as all the combat recons focus on damage bonuses and there secondary EWAR, and all the force recons focus on there primary EWAR and cloaking
I'm not the one doing the ad hominem attacks here. Blame them. |
Murina
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2009.01.16 09:46:00 -
[92]
Originally by: Amira Shadowsong
I have killed cruisers in it. I do not care that there are competent cruisers out there that I might not have killed. Why? Because I'll just disengage if it doesn't go well.
And yet this conversation is about your death mail so what did you forget to disengage or just make a poor target selection?.
Originally by: Amira Shadowsong I mean when 90% of the pilots I face are half assed, why should I not fit for cruiser and inty killing. It's not perfect for either job but it works in 90% of cases.
As i said and you now clearly say your self, solo killing noobs and ratters takes no skill just the right fit. |
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