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0ld School
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Posted - 2009.01.17 23:06:00 -
[1]
Yes IĈm an alt. So I am a nyx pilot, well my main is. I was talking to some corp. mates about how useless it is and moving toward titian. After some talk about both ships, uses, weak points ect. I came to this idea. With large scale warfare and the bloobing that goes on it is being shown more and more that Titians are too many, and support fleets (sub caps) are becoming fodder, there by almost eliminating them from real uses in large scale fights. They are either bait for a titian, fodder, or unexpected cannon fodder. As more and more Titians show up this will become even more relevant on smaller scale battles. As we have seen it is getting cheaper and cheaper to make them, there are many reasons for this, blame drone lands, cheaper mins.. Whatever. The devs tried to make more Titians die with HIC and while more indeed have died many more have been built. sooo what to do. My basic idea is this. Triple the build time for Titians, triple the min cost of them and after their DD make them in a form of siege for a period of time, 5-10 min. This will have a ripple down effect. It will make moms more useful I think, they will be needed to rep the titian and keep it alive, it will also give the target time to kill the titian. I'm sure this idea has holes and can be changed here and there but I think it can be agreed by reasonable people that something needs to been done with both classes of these ships. I even played with the idea of an alliance limit on Titians, but this would lead to bigger and bigger alliances, if were based on size. Recent events in the north and now the south have shown that losing a titian is not a big deal to large alliances, Shrike(bob) and not at all afraid to use them in general.. TCF/BOB down south have both dropped multiple Titians on enemy fleets.
Ideas welcome. Criticize at will.
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Nocturnal Avenger
x13
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Posted - 2009.01.17 23:28:00 -
[2]
Originally by: 0ld School Ideas welcome. Criticize at will.
Use paragraphs |
0ld School
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Posted - 2009.01.17 23:30:00 -
[3]
Edited by: 0ld School on 17/01/2009 23:35:38 Edited by: 0ld School on 17/01/2009 23:34:45 . Lol yea was more into getting my idea out there... sentence structure was not high on my priority list, it does cause a little be of a headace.. sorry and yes i am a bad speller but you will get over it, im sure. That and i am lil on the drunk side it is a sat night in eve after all and ive been in a pos for hours.
damn spell check fails me again. |
DamienV
Omega Fleet Enterprises Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2009.01.17 23:31:00 -
[4]
TITANS TITANS TITANS TITANS
repeat it and memorize it
ITS NOT TITIANS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
thats all i got out of your post |
Spaztick
Canadian Imperial Armaments Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2009.01.17 23:40:00 -
[5]
Well, on one hand you have Titans as a form of anti-blob warfare, and while you would expect it to shift it from big fleet fights to capital fights you really can't do that because there is no way to get capitals in to take down the titan.
It was my understanding that Titans cannot warp for 10 minutes after a DD is fired, is this accurate or can they just not jump? If Titans weren't allowed to warp for 10 minutes then it would be a different thing; titans would be at more risk to enemy fleets.
The problems themselves aren't titans as much as the fact that they are very hard ships to lose, with 8 million+ EHP and a very nasty glorified smartbomb. If you could keep titans on grid for 10 minutes, or even as you suggested make it immobile like siege mode, that would give enemy fleets time to jump in capitals to take it down.
It doesn't solve every issue, and more numbers will always mean something, but it's a step in the right direction. (That being said, I still find motherships to be more useful than a titan due to the increased logistics, massive local tank in triage as well as cap stability, and believe it or not, remote ECM bursts will give you 1-2 more cycles on your support fleet's guns that your enemy won't have. Each of these is situational sure, but so is a doomsday.) |
Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.01.17 23:56:00 -
[6]
Originally by: 0ld School
My basic idea is this. Triple the build time for Titians, triple the min cost of them and after their DD make them in a form of siege for a period of time, 5-10 min.
Think about that slightly longer and you should realise why it's a totally fail idea. Build cost were never the restriction for titans and it would just give an unfair advantage to those who already own them. |
Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2009.01.17 23:57:00 -
[7]
The Titan doomsday scenario (pun intended) where Titans would effectively remove sub-capitals from game was predicted almost 18 months ago, when it became clear that it was not a 'rare' ship type (I think it was around the time when BoB replaced Shrikes first Avatar within days). We are at a point where people are no longer theorizing over IF a multi-DD can be used to wipe a dread/carrier group, but rather WHEN it will happen.
Both super-capital ship classes needs a rethink, the hard part will be to do it in a way so that the people who already have them won't be left out in cold (or vice versa). If time/materials were to triple as you suggest you are favouring the existent ships to an enormous degree which is also bad.
Personally I am drawing a blank when trying to find a new role for them. They have the bonuses/mods to boost/help gangs, but somehow it doesn't do the trick. Would have been nice to see what CCP could have come up with when they were considering rethinking carrier/motherships .. they were stopped prematurely in my opinion ... the roar from the forums is still echoing in my ears
Titans can warp/cloak but are stuck in DD system for 15 minutes, how is that for aggro timer (or that's how understand it). |
0ld School
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Posted - 2009.01.17 23:58:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Sokratesz
Originally by: 0ld School
My basic idea is this. Triple the build time for Titians, triple the min cost of them and after their DD make them in a form of siege for a period of time, 5-10 min.
Think about that slightly longer and you should realise why it's a totally fail idea. Build cost were never the restriction for titans and it would just give an unfair advantage to those who already own them.
valid point, very valid. yet the fact remains something needs to be done. |
0ld School
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Posted - 2009.01.18 00:04:00 -
[9]
what about taking the DD out of the picture totaly. Make it more like a super logistics platform, increase jump portal range/gang bonus, and maybe make its beams/torps more powerful than a dreads. |
SunTzuCsu
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.01.18 00:05:00 -
[10]
Edited by: SunTzuCsu on 18/01/2009 00:05:24 I don't think your changes will help motherships. The latest big nerf was the range hit on Officer webs. It was a nerf too far tbh.
Edit: |
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Lilith Velkor
Minmatar DEATH'S LEGION Red Box.
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Posted - 2009.01.18 00:06:00 -
[11]
I was thinking if they would be not that much better tanking than lets say 2 times as what carriers can put up, with maybe the around 3-4 times the EHP, while being able to kill another capital in 1-2 volleys of a directed doomsday blast could bring another twist to the anti-blob capability, i.e. being able to manage capital blobs while being not that hard to be killed themselves.
Then again, the closest I've ever come to a titan is seeing one on scanner, so take this with a grain of salt |
Gierling
Gallente Viper Squad
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Posted - 2009.01.18 00:37:00 -
[12]
Ultimately Titans were a mistake, one that the community is going to have to live with.
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fkingfurious
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Posted - 2009.01.18 00:54:00 -
[13]
Moms aren't a problem in modern Eve. Sure they are essentially useless ships but they don't actually break the game in anyway.
Titans on the other hand will inevitably put an end to fleet engagements as we know them. As has been stated, it's a case of WHEN an entire capital fleet is going to be wiped out my multiple DD blasts instead of IF.
CCP entirely missed the point with Titans. When they were first revealed to the community they were touted essentially as mobile stations. CCP actually stated that they weren't intended to be damage dealers or fleet killers but that they wanted them to be the base of operations for an alliance when they invaded enemy territory. Many people, myself included, specualted that you would be able to dock in them as you would a conventional station, and have access to repair facilities and the like.
Obviously CCP decided against that kind of innovation and instead turned them into flying smartbombs. The thing is, there is no space in Eve for the kind of Titan CCP first proposed anyway. To an outside observer it seems almost trivial to deploy massive amounts of POS, move huge fleets through space, invade even cyno jammed systems and deploy outposts. POS logistics is laughably easy compared to the nightmare it used to be back in the days when noone had even heard of a cyno field. The sort of massive logistics hub that was the original idea behind Titans would be redundant anyway.
So what can you do with them? Atm they good for jump portaling and annihilating a sub capital fleet in the blink of an eye. Soon they'll also be able to take out capital fleets, at which point it really is game over for the poor bastards that don't have enough Titans of their own to return the favour. The first time BoB, I mean a big alliance *cough* drop enough doomsdays to take out a cap fleet is the day they win eve.
It would be nice to think that CCP have some strategy in place to rescue us when that happens, but I guess only time will tell.
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Antimony Noske
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Posted - 2009.01.18 03:31:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Antimony Noske on 18/01/2009 03:31:02 Remove the doomsday from titans. Add a siege mode that creates a POS shield around the titan. Allow ships to dock/undock from a titan regardless of which mode it is in and give it a repairbay, etc. [Make sure each repair performed takes up resources carried in the ship, like how POS stations are fueled.] and give the titan a ginormous bay to carry ships in.
Turn it into the kind of ship that's used to spearhead an assault, in a different manner: By jumping the whole goddamn fleet in-system, by itself.
It'll be used as a re-arm and repair point, but not as a fleet-killer. |
Pettu
coracao ardente Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.01.18 03:34:00 -
[15]
1 word: fraction titian! |
Egenli
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Posted - 2009.01.18 03:58:00 -
[16]
My mom prefers Caravaggio to Titian. |
ZephyrLexx
Caldari The Graduates Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.01.18 04:06:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Antimony Noske Edited by: Antimony Noske on 18/01/2009 03:31:02 Remove the doomsday from titans. Add a siege mode that creates a POS shield around the titan. Allow ships to dock/undock from a titan regardless of which mode it is in and give it a repairbay, etc. [Make sure each repair performed takes up resources carried in the ship, like how POS stations are fueled.] and give the titan a ginormous bay to carry ships in.
Turn it into the kind of ship that's used to spearhead an assault, in a different manner: By jumping the whole goddamn fleet in-system, by itself.
It'll be used as a re-arm and repair point, but not as a fleet-killer.
give this man a cookie, he wins EVE |
Nomad Storm
The Wandering Path
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Posted - 2009.01.18 06:08:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Antimony Noske Edited by: Antimony Noske on 18/01/2009 03:31:02 Remove the doomsday from titans. Add a siege mode that creates a POS shield around the titan. Allow ships to dock/undock from a titan regardless of which mode it is in and give it a repairbay, etc. [Make sure each repair performed takes up resources carried in the ship, like how POS stations are fueled.] and give the titan a ginormous bay to carry ships in.
Turn it into the kind of ship that's used to spearhead an assault, in a different manner: By jumping the whole goddamn fleet in-system, by itself.
It'll be used as a re-arm and repair point, but not as a fleet-killer.
This sounds like win.
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Helen
The Tetragrammaton Council
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Posted - 2009.01.18 08:13:00 -
[19]
I think CCP won't even think about acting on Titans till the first time a cap fleet is killed by the effects of 24 DD's in a row...
To be honest TheKiller8 got it right years ago with his flash animation, I'm still pondering how CCP thought Titans would work after people got production geared up for supercaps... Titans? Superweapons?
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Deva Blackfire
coracao ardente
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Posted - 2009.01.18 10:02:00 -
[20]
of all things in this game i must say carriers and supercaps (dreads are ok) were most screwed up ideas CCP came up with (just after recon ships being solopwnmobiles for a LONG time). And still 2+ years (3+?) after introducing cap ships they are unbalanced as hell.
Its like CCP balance ends up on "3 carriers 1 mothership fleet era" not seeing that total numbers are around 10-100x higher. But whatever guess they wont lift a finger until we see lots more of em in game and much larger blobs (and as helen says: when titans manage to DD cap fleet). |
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Shereza
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Posted - 2009.01.18 11:58:00 -
[21]
An idea I've been toying with might be of some use in a situation like this, or at least a modification of it would.
Introduce some new XL guns/launchers designed specifically for titans and similar ships, though not dreadnoughts for good reason, that are designed to engage sub-capital ships.
Perhaps some 8x425mm railguns or octal tachyon beams?
Either way the idea is to provide an option for the titans to lay down massive amounts of firepower without resorting to the doomsday device which, in turn, could allow for its "safe" nerfing or alteration to prevent the "20 titans just DDD'd 75 capitals out of existance in 60 seconds" scenario.
Not a fix for the problem in and of itself but a way to help ease the pain of any potential fixes. |
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