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Kriptonik
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Posted - 2009.01.20 11:38:00 -
[1]
I think it would be awesome if you could "BUG" another players ship with a homing beacon that would allow you to use the star map to see what system they were currently in for a limited period of time.
Example of Items:
Beacon Launcher: Works like a probe launcher but would be engineered to be fired at a locked ship.
Beacons: Tracking Device I -Tracks target for 10 minutes Tuned Tracking Receiver- Tracks target for 11 minutes High Power Tracking Beacon-Tracks Target for 12 minutes Modulated Tracking Device- Tracks target for 13 minutes Tracking Device II- Tracks target for 15 minutes.
Could equate effectiveness and longevity of the tracking beacons with the Scan resolution skill or something similar. ALSO depending on the players associated skills and the grade of tracker used, there could be a limit on how many jumps away the target can extend before the device loses signal (kind of like cyno radius only much smaller). This would enable a person that believes they are tagged to still escape their trackers.
Also another idea is that you can only plant a device on a ship if you are using a passive targeting module, because an active lock would alert the target to the act of tagging them.
P.S. I looked at commonly suggested ideas in the sticky and didn't see anything about Homing Devices in there... but if there is already a post and this is a repeat, please fold this into that thread.
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Ratchman
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Posted - 2009.01.20 12:04:00 -
[2]
I quite like this idea, as it could lead to some dramatic chases over several systems. Don't know quite how practical it would be though. It could be abused in a few waysa, so it might be that we need to ensure that any firing of a homing beacon flags that person for aggression, which of course will delay them getting through the gate. This may naturally balance it anyway, allowing the victim the chance to escape if they are quick enough. |
ollobrains2
Gallente New Eve Order Holdings
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Posted - 2009.01.20 12:05:00 -
[3]
a beacon probe detector ? we had mines once to look up anaconda mine in game |
Lord AtTiLAs
Radioactive Poptarts
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Posted - 2009.01.20 12:37:00 -
[4]
A sure dead for slow ship IMHO
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Tyson Gallane
Caldari 22nd Black Rise Defensive Unit
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Posted - 2009.01.20 12:53:00 -
[5]
I quite like this idea - as long as there something to counter it, such as a module or rig that can detect/remove the bug.
If you know you are bugged, you can lead your trackers on a wild goose chase, or into a trap.
T.
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Kriptonik
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Posted - 2009.01.20 15:30:00 -
[6]
Bugging someone wouldn't necessarily need to inflict and aggro timer. If you are in a high security areas all the normal rules will still apply, and no-one would be able to aggress the other.... you would just be able to track the bugged ship for a limited time whether it leads you to it's home base or docks up in a random station for no reason is up to the pilot that was bugged. You may discover useful information about trade routes.. or you may learn nothing at all.
As for the accuracy of the tracking beacon, it would only be able to tell a tracker what System the target is in. Once you reach that system you will still have to utilize Scanning/Probes to locate the targets ship.
It would also make sense to create modules that can be used to counter the use of tracking bugs. I was thinking along the lines of something similar to Nanite Paste. Perhaps have units of Micro Scanner Drones you can buy that you can train and use to sweep the ship before starting a trip. The scanner drones could only be used outside of a warp bubbles though. |
Drakoulia
Caldari The Night Corporation
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Posted - 2009.01.20 15:55:00 -
[7]
This idea is full of awesome, but I thing the time limit might be just a little too short. Unless you could raise the tracking time by a skill(15-25% lvl), the times of the higher meta lvls should increase.
Practical? Maybe, it'd be nice to have an alternative to locator agents and local. Fun? YES. YES. |
Maceross
MicroFunks
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Posted - 2009.01.20 16:31:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Maceross on 20/01/2009 16:34:10 /signed
As one guy said, as long as there was some way for the afflicted player to detect or have the device removed at some point this idea has bags of potential :)
that said if the device has a finite life span maybe you dont even need that... just maybe a way for a determined pilot to find out if they have been bugged or not.
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Kal Shanai
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Posted - 2009.01.20 16:57:00 -
[9]
Yeah, a way to detect bugs would be quite enough. Maybe a chance that a ships onboard sensors detects it every 30 secs or so?
Quite an original idea, and as said, full of potential :)
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Kaldoreign
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.01.20 17:31:00 -
[10]
It should last for longer, but the idea is great, /signed There should also be a skill that will increase duration / number of targets that can be tracked at the same time...
That bug could be found by running a system diagnostics that will last a few minutes (or more, so nobody will run them all the time). That way, an unsuspecting target could be tracked for a longer time then somebody who is always careful, or is in the roaming gang in low sec and keeps an eye on that. |
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Astria Tiphareth
Caldari 24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2009.01.20 19:24:00 -
[11]
Fun in concept certainly, and though it has come up before, I've not seen a long-lived thread about it.
Minor 'science' point: Our ships have shields, and if we had the technology to get objects through shields, we'd be applying them to more than just bugs. Perhaps planting a bug can only happen whilst docked? An additional espionage area for ambulation? Just throwing ideas out.
If a specific module or item is needed to remove beacons, then that pretty much eliminates their being removed; very few people are going to use a slot or cargo space on the off-chance they get a beacon attached.
I can see a lot of griefing to cause paranoia if it's trivial/cheap to bug and hard to remove, but then my mind thinks like that.
I suppose my thoughts in terms of utility would be these:
If you can find and bug the person, you've successfully found them in the first place. If you're in a combat ship, your logical course of action is to engage/tackle them rather than bug them and let them run off. If you're in a non-combat ship or covops scout, then bugging makes some sense, but you reveal your own position and place yourself at considerable risk by bugging. If it flags you for aggression, no sensible scout is going to do that against a ship that can shoot back.
Thus the concept has limited utility in direct warfare or tracking formed fleets; i.e. where one or more participants is in a combat-capable ship. It's more an intelligence gathering tool for use against non-combat ships e.g. finding the location of a high-sec POS by tracking the ship carrying fuel, or charting where that jump freighter just ended up.
Questions that come to mind:
Who'd see the tracking results? You? Your corp? Your alliance? Anyone? How would they be conveyed and how often?
What range would this have? Region-wide like locator agents?
I think it's an area to explore, but tough to get quite right such that it's not massively overpowered in some way, or completely useless.
Originally by: Kriptonik Also another idea is that you can only plant a device on a ship if you are using a passive targeting module, because an active lock would alert the target to the act of tagging them.
The passive targeter would need changing, as I believe it actually only prevents the visual signal that you're acquiring lock. Once you've acquired, it just acts as normal to the target. ___ My views may not represent those of my corporation, which is why I never get invited to those diplomatic parties... Environmental Effects
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Kel Nissa
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Posted - 2009.01.20 21:19:00 -
[12]
Bug can only be deployed when the enemy is currently at max. 5% shield. Might also give shield tanks an adittional benefit. |
Sig Sour
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Posted - 2009.01.20 21:53:00 -
[13]
This is a cool idea.
Maybe longer durations and you can lose it if it gets too far away?
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Tyson Gallane
Caldari 22nd Black Rise Defensive Unit
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Posted - 2009.01.20 23:47:00 -
[14]
Maybe the bug latches onto one of the target's camera drones?
Outside the shields.
T.
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F4LC0N
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Posted - 2009.01.21 03:09:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Tyson Gallane Maybe the bug latches onto one of the target's camera drones?
This,or us the same Technology the camera drones use to follow a ship.
Also a way to find or remove them could be to dock as i assume ships get inspected while docked so maybe add a chance to detect them. |
ShadowGod56
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Posted - 2009.01.21 03:13:00 -
[16]
brilliant!
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Smacko Thug
State War Academy
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Posted - 2009.01.21 03:28:00 -
[17]
This idea does indeed have potential.
The number of possible outcomes of a bugged ship, following a bugged ship, following a ship who knows hes bugged etc etc etc... well yeah, sure sounds like some fun could come from it!
Well yeah, this idea though i feel needing additional refining, has its merits. |
Marcus Gideon
Gallente Excessive Force
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Posted - 2009.01.21 03:52:00 -
[18]
Umm... what's wrong with locator agents?
Or rather... wouldn't this kinda put them out of business?
I think a lot of valid points have been discussed already. Like how do you affix a beacon onto a ship without giving yourself away in the process. And if you have "magic" beacons that bypass shields so they can attach, then why not "enchant" your regular bullets to attach themselves violently to the Pod instead? |
Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2009.01.21 04:09:00 -
[19]
Locator agents already provide the service you're after. |
Marcus Gideon
Gallente Excessive Force
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Posted - 2009.01.21 04:12:00 -
[20]
/me just said that. |
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Kriptonik
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Posted - 2009.01.21 07:28:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Mara Rinn Locator agents already provide the service you're after.
This is true, but there would be a big difference in the application of the two tracking methods.
Locator Agents provide the location of a player anywhere in the galaxy upon request.
The tracking device would be used to provide real time feedback of your targets current location within a limited timeframe and distance. |
Maceross
MicroFunks
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Posted - 2009.01.21 10:14:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Maceross on 21/01/2009 10:15:55 Yeah, youd still need locator agents to find the target in the first place, then get a tracker on them to monitor their movements, you wouldnt be putting locators out of business at all.
additionally the applications would be totally different in potential, with locator agents requiring a predetermined target and tracking devices giving opportunities on targets of, uh, opportunity.
personally i think the skill for em should affect the duration and range you can track targets for. or perhaps have a skill for each. (ie +1 or 2 jumps per level from whatever the base is perhaps). |
Ratchman
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Posted - 2009.01.21 14:54:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Marcus Gideon Umm... what's wrong with locator agents?
Or rather... wouldn't this kinda put them out of business?
I think a lot of valid points have been discussed already. Like how do you affix a beacon onto a ship without giving yourself away in the process. And if you have "magic" beacons that bypass shields so they can attach, then why not "enchant" your regular bullets to attach themselves violently to the Pod instead?
If the shield has a physical presence, perhaps it is attaching itself to that? Don't analyse these things too closely, as science is indistinguishable from magic to the uninitiated. Just don't ask how a mining laser ferries the ore into the cargo bay.
I love the idea of leading the hunter into a trap though. This is the best counter to the whole bugging idea. Pirates would be so keen to grab that kill that they inadvertantly stumble into the target's waiting friends. |
Kriptonik
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Posted - 2009.01.23 12:58:00 -
[24]
This is exactly why I like the idea. It can be used as a double edged sword. It will give the tracker the ability to follow a target, BUT it also gives the prey one of two options upon discovery of the tracking device:
1. Use special means to remove the device and end the chase.
2. Set a nasty trap.
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Scurvy Pestilential
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Posted - 2009.01.23 13:24:00 -
[25]
This is the best idea I think I've seen. I don't think you should get a GCC for attaching one, however maybe you could be given one in the victim finds and reports it? At the same time, they should maybe only allowed in low and Nullsec. Concord could routinely scan for them?
Don't know really, there's so many ways this idea could be implimented, and like someone else said, the 'double-edge' sword aspect is brilliant.
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Karentaki
Gallente Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.01.23 20:10:00 -
[26]
This is a great idea, though I do have a few suggestions:
Timing: All tracking devices should have a time limit as suggested in the OP, but it should be a bit longer. 30 minutes for T1, up to maybe 1 hour for T2
Range: They should also have a range attribute which would be given in Light-Years and would be the maximum distance you could pick the beacon up at. This would allow for tracking in other systems, but it would be very limited. I'm not too familiar with the distances between stars in EVE, but it should be around 3 jumps for T1 to 5 jumps for T2.
UI: While the target is in the same system, the beacon should be displayed on the overview (optional), brackets (optional), and system map. When the target leaves system it would only be visible on the star map.
Use: As suggested, these should only be usable with a passive targeter, but they should be able to penetrate shields so as not to give any race too much of an advantage. It would also be nice if covops ships got a bonus to range and duration of these probes, and possibly even got a bonus allowing them to use a passive targeter while cloaked. It would also be very nice if there was a larger version that could be placed in cargo (including courier) and would look and act like a small can, but would actually act as a tracking device with a range of around 20 AU and an unlimited duration.
There should be a way to defend against these devices. I'm not sure what it should be, but it would be nice if it was possible to detect them using a ship scanner and cargo scanner (scripts could work well here: remote scanning and self scanning).
Quote:
EVE is like a sandbox with landmines. Deal with it.
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Trent Nichols
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.01.24 02:03:00 -
[27]
Great idea. Game changing and in a good way.
Regarding explanations: I could see it being explained that they latch onto the target's shields like a leech.
Trade off is the tricky part. What do you have to do/ risk to tag an enemy ship?
How about having the bugs take a bit of time to latch on depending on the bug being attached and the pilots skill? The pilot has to stay close to his target for that time.
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