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Rodmill
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Posted - 2009.01.20 12:42:00 -
[1]
Hi everyone. I am in a myrmidon doing lvl 3 now and i got the standing to accept lvl 4 missions and as i far as i know lvl 4s require a battleship to complete.I got the cash / and skill ( actually i ll be able to fly it in 10 days )to fly a megathron but in fitting forums everybody says it is too early for me to use a megathron. Now , since i am a noob i wonder what are the disadvantages of flying a battleship with 2+ mill skill points while i can use the ship and the modules i fit on it. Thank you for your answers..
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Dark Blood08
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Posted - 2009.01.20 12:46:00 -
[2]
remember this "just because you can fly a ship does not mean you can fly it well"
meaning.....theres a lot of other skills...electronics and engineering and the gunnery skills and the armor and a bunch of others..so hope this helps
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Mish'Kala
Minmatar Atomic Heroes
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Posted - 2009.01.20 12:51:00 -
[3]
If you are in a Myrm now, you should be using drones for most of your DPS, so a Dominix would be a better BS choice, as its also a drone ship.
The disadvantage of getting in to a BS early, is that you cannot fit it to optimise its performance. That said, at ~2M SP you should have T2 fittings for most things, so you can start to put a fit together for L4's. A Domi with 2 large reppers and mission specific hardeners will hold its own in a level 4, provived you control the agro, dont worry too much about guns on it, let the drones do the killing, but you will need heavy drone skills.
Ive not missioned in a mega on any char, so really cant comment on their ability.
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Annowyn
Purgatorial Janitors Inc.
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Posted - 2009.01.20 12:52:00 -
[4]
A domi is actually strikingly easy to fit and use. Talking like raven level of simplicity. Just fit a 6 slot armor tank, rest cap mods as needed. Grab aggro, release drones, afk. |
Tarrakh
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Posted - 2009.01.20 12:57:00 -
[5]
Ofc but with this logic i shouldnt fly a bc too...There is still lots of skills and ranks for me to train that can help me with lvl 3 missions in a myrmidon. Since ll only use this against missions and not for pvp , my question is : Will i be able to complete lvl 4's with this char or they are a lot different from lvl 3's ?
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Sonreir
Gallente Band of Builders Inc. Libera Alliance
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Posted - 2009.01.20 13:00:00 -
[6]
Level four missions are big jump from level three. Even more than from level two to level three.
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Imaos
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Posted - 2009.01.20 13:01:00 -
[7]
The problem with the magathron is that it needs good gunnery skills or it will take a lot of time to down the closer orbiting ships.
The dominix on the other hand can switch drones depending on the targets size and therefor is easier to use while you wait for the gunnery skills to train. It would also fit more in your current style as you already fly a droneboat.
Imaos ------------------------------------------
Originally by: NoNah
My friend, this is EVE, as it's a space oriented game, they couldn't have trolls. We have Caldari. |
Mish'Kala
Minmatar Atomic Heroes
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Posted - 2009.01.20 13:05:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Tarrakh Ofc but with this logic i shouldnt fly a bc too...There is still lots of skills and ranks for me to train that can help me with lvl 3 missions in a myrmidon. Since ll only use this against missions and not for pvp , my question is : Will i be able to complete lvl 4's with this char or they are a lot different from lvl 3's ?
Yes, if you take your time, control agro and think about it. But to begin with it will be slow going as your skills will not be optimising your DPS.
Best of Luck tho.
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Imaos
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Posted - 2009.01.20 13:10:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Tarrakh Ofc but with this logic i shouldnt fly a bc too...There is still lots of skills and ranks for me to train that can help me with lvl 3 missions in a myrmidon. Since ll only use this against missions and not for pvp , my question is : Will i be able to complete lvl 4's with this char or they are a lot different from lvl 3's ?
The problem is that you need damage for the battleships you face and tracking for the small ships. It is also harder to keep distance to minimize transversal. There are several hurdles you'll face: Different playstyle (guns vs drones), new gun size, more variety in target ships.
If you want to get a feel for the guns get a brutix and try it on lvl3 missions.
Remember, you need large rails for the megathron to get the damage bonus and you'll likely want bs4 and motion prediction4 for tracking. Unless you already have some levels in large guns and surgical strike you wont do much damage. The damage increase of the various skills sort of multiply (more hits, better damage multiplier, etc.) and there are more skills needed than to use a dominix.
Imaos |
Tarrakh
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Posted - 2009.01.20 13:12:00 -
[10]
Thank you all for your replies. Now i got 900k drone and 100k gunnery skills and using a dominix is probably a better idea.But whats confusing about the ship bonuses of the mega is it gives %7.5 tracking speed.So i thought it will be enough for dealing close range targets. So should i use hammerhead II s for close range and heavy drones for long ?? |
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H Lecter
Gallente The Black Rabbits The Gurlstas Associates
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Posted - 2009.01.20 13:21:00 -
[11]
The Megathron is actually the more skill intensive battleship of the Gallente lineup. Start with a Dominix, it seems you already got good drone skills and you'll be missioning very quickly without having to buy ammo.
Before risking a bs on a level 4 mission you should have a T2 tank and both capacitor related skills (Energy Management and Energy Systems Operation) at least at IV. Drones should also be T2.
For now better stick to Level 3 missions. The profit is reasonable and when losing a fitted and maybe rigged Dominix the loss will outweigh the gain from higher mission rewards.
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H Lecter
Gallente The Black Rabbits The Gurlstas Associates
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Posted - 2009.01.20 13:32:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Tarrakh Thank you all for your replies. Now i got 900k drone and 100k gunnery skills and using a dominix is probably a better idea.But whats confusing about the ship bonuses of the mega is it gives %7.5 tracking speed.So i thought it will be enough for dealing close range targets. So should i use hammerhead II s for close range and heavy drones for long ??
That assumption is wrong when it comes to frig sized targets or closely orbiting cruisers. The basic tracking of rails is really bad (they are long range weapons), the bonus is needed to make them acceptable.
Since QR hammerheads have a hard time against frigates. A set of small drones will solve that problem.
The choice of drone depends more on the target size than on the distance. Heavy drones will spend quite some time when they have to get in range of a battleship that is 50 km away, so I would only use them when the target is already very close to you. On longer distance go for sentry drones. They sit in space and hit targets that are 100km away - so your efficiency will be higher than with heavies although sentry drones do a small bit less damage.
You can even fit a Sentry Damage Augmentor rig that increases Sentry damage above the level of heavy drones.
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RayBanJockey
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Posted - 2009.01.20 13:45:00 -
[13]
Good news and bad news.
Bad news: Turret ships in missions is doing things the hard way, you should get a missile ship instead, if we're going to be totally frank.
Good news: Megathrons are the best turret ships for missions because of the tracking bonus, especially true for low SP chars. |
Cohkka
Celestial Apocalypse
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Posted - 2009.01.20 15:42:00 -
[14]
Considering you propably got most of your SP in learning (at least I hope you do) I wouldn't hop into a Megathron yet. Get a Dominix. You can improove its DPS very fast by training the drones/BS skills, it's easy to fit and in general the best BS to have if you're new to it. Personally I wound't get into a Mega untill you have about 10 mil SP. That includes a majority of SP in Gunnery and mechanics/engineering (to be able to use T2 modules). Don't speak english, just F5, F5, F5... |
Paulo Banderez
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Posted - 2009.01.20 15:45:00 -
[15]
If you haven't already started learning skills to use the Mega then STOP and start learning Caldari BS and Missile skills. The Raven is by far the best mission ship. (IMHO)
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Captain Pompous
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Posted - 2009.01.20 16:14:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Paulo Banderez If you haven't already started learning skills to use the Mega then STOP and start learning Caldari BS and Missile skills. The Raven is by far the best mission ship. (IMHO)
lol this time last year, perhaps... |
Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.01.20 16:42:00 -
[17]
Dominix is fine for missions too. But if you look at best with low skills the raven is still easily on top. And with good skills it still one of the best, just not in every situation the best. ---------------------------------------------
Originally by: Neth'Rae Military experts are calling this a troll.
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Adyriana
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Posted - 2009.01.20 16:57:00 -
[18]
Two things you need to remember when it comes to skills. first is "skills needed to fly the ship" and the second, "skills needed to fly the ship well"
never fly a ship you cant afford to lose |
Hugh Ruka
Exploratio et Industria Morispatia
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Posted - 2009.01.20 17:23:00 -
[19]
let's put it this way ... you want to do around 500DPS damage and tank that much also.
try to set it up in EFT to achieve this numbers and post your setup here ...
however with your stated skills, you'll hardly reach 400DPS with any kind of normal setup ... --- SIG --- CSM: your support is needed ! |
Rodmill
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Posted - 2009.01.20 17:34:00 -
[20]
Well , i dont have any missile skills..None And since i am gallante i cant use raven and cross-training it will be much longer than training a gallante bs. As far as i know caldari ships are shield tank and training for it will take time too.. So is this something always happens to any player when they reach lvl 4 or it is just me and my low sp? There should be ppl out there doin lvl 4's with their own ships..
Btw i am ( or i was before your comments ) very happy about the performance of my myrmidon bot offensive and defansive )
One last question : I know that engineering increases the power of a ship and (advanced )weapon upgrades decreases the cpu and power needs of the weapons used.When i tried some fittings in EFT i saw that even both these skills at lvl 5 it is impossible to fit 350mm and 425 mm railguns to dominix.So is that it ( it shouldnt be.. ) or are there other skills that decreases the power and cpu needs of other modules? Btw a guide about it would be great.. Than you.
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Neyro7830
Gallente Axxeon
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Posted - 2009.01.20 18:01:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Mish'Kala
Originally by: Tarrakh Ofc but with this logic i shouldnt fly a bc too...There is still lots of skills and ranks for me to train that can help me with lvl 3 missions in a myrmidon. Since ll only use this against missions and not for pvp , my question is : Will i be able to complete lvl 4's with this char or they are a lot different from lvl 3's ?
Yes, if you take your time, control agro and think about it. But to begin with it will be slow going as your skills will not be optimising your DPS.
Best of Luck tho.
I can't agree more. I hopped into my BS way too soon (I think we all do), and it took AGES to kill L4 ships. Its not so bad now, but then again, I have 8m SP and am just now getting around to T2 drones! O_O |
Hugh Ruka
Exploratio et Industria Morispatia
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Posted - 2009.01.20 18:03:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Rodmill Well , i dont have any missile skills..None And since i am gallante i cant use raven and cross-training it will be much longer than training a gallante bs. As far as i know caldari ships are shield tank and training for it will take time too.. So is this something always happens to any player when they reach lvl 4 or it is just me and my low sp? There should be ppl out there doin lvl 4's with their own ships..
Btw i am ( or i was before your comments ) very happy about the performance of my myrmidon bot offensive and defansive )
One last question : I know that engineering increases the power of a ship and (advanced )weapon upgrades decreases the cpu and power needs of the weapons used.When i tried some fittings in EFT i saw that even both these skills at lvl 5 it is impossible to fit 350mm and 425 mm railguns to dominix.So is that it ( it shouldnt be.. ) or are there other skills that decreases the power and cpu needs of other modules? Btw a guide about it would be great.. Than you.
dominix has low PG to start with ... there are implants that ease gun CPU/PG requirements and implants to increase PG (I do not remember CPU ones).
only fitting skills relevant for guns are those you mentioned (electronics increases CPU) ... |
Cambarus
The Baros Syndicate Ministry Of Amarrian Secret Service
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Posted - 2009.01.20 19:26:00 -
[23]
My advice: Ignore guns, get a dominix. I currently have a 3mil SP alt who's a week away from ogre IIs (and fields a full tech II tank, and has BS/interfacing IV) When I first got this alt into a dominix, I sent her off on her first lvl 4. While I was doing this, she was still in rookie chat
The skills you need to fly a domi in lvl 4s are as follows: Drones V Drone interfacing III Gallente Battleship III Energy Management and Energy Systems Operation IV (this is a MUST) The ability to use armor hardeners, and armor reppers (tech I will do fine) The ability to use CCC rigs
Get a domi, and with those skills you can run a 7 slot tank (even with tech I mods this is enough to tank the whole mission for almost all level IVs). Fill the mids with cap rechargers, the highs should have salvage gear, maybe a drone link augmenter and a gun (I use a civilian blaster, the gun is just to agress the rats to get aggro). You will have to rig this ship with 3 CCCs, so be ready to spend a bit over a hundred mil for the whole setup. (once you get to tech II it costs a bit under 150 to buy/fit this ship, but you'll only ever lose them doing something like alt tabbing after forgetting to turn on your tank >_< )
It's a bit slow to run missions, but you'll get the feel of lvl 4s without taking much of a risk, and you really do need a fair bit of gunnery skills before the mega will outdamage it, if you've only got 100k SP in gunnery... |
Baalroshe
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Posted - 2009.01.20 19:28:00 -
[24]
or hes an idea dont even worry about turrets... drones by far do more dmg than guns at your sp lvls... just fit an arty to grab aggro, drone link augmetor and salvage equipment, once you have aggro release your drones and go make some popcorn and watch a movie |
Spike 68
Atomic Battle Penguins
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Posted - 2009.01.20 19:56:00 -
[25]
train those learning skills up first and save some isk running lvl3s while you do. its boring but if you plan on playing eve more than 6 months its worth it |
MarieFrance Tessier
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Posted - 2009.01.20 20:47:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Rodmill Well , i dont have any missile skills..None And since i am gallante i cant use raven and cross-training it will be much longer than training a gallante bs. As far as i know caldari ships are shield tank and training for it will take time too.. So is this something always happens to any player when they reach lvl 4 or it is just me and my low sp? There should be ppl out there doin lvl 4's with their own ships..
Btw i am ( or i was before your comments ) very happy about the performance of my myrmidon bot offensive and defansive )
One last question : I know that engineering increases the power of a ship and (advanced )weapon upgrades decreases the cpu and power needs of the weapons used.When i tried some fittings in EFT i saw that even both these skills at lvl 5 it is impossible to fit 350mm and 425 mm railguns to dominix.So is that it ( it shouldnt be.. ) or are there other skills that decreases the power and cpu needs of other modules? Btw a guide about it would be great.. Than you.
The dominix was never meant to fit a full rack of guns. Generally, you fit two large armor repair, 4 hardeners, cap stuff, then the highs are some combination of 1 or 2 guns, 2 or three drone links, and the rest nosferatus or neutralisers. Don't try to do turret dps in it.
Very powerful ship, and very cheap for a BS. |
Garbad theWeak
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Posted - 2009.01.20 21:14:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Rodmill Now , since i am a noob i wonder what are the disadvantages of flying a battleship with 2+ mill skill points while i can use the ship and the modules i fit on it. Thank you for your answers..
Like you, I thought I could handle a Mega with ~2.5 million SP. I had the money, I had enough skills for all the basic gear, and I thought I was ready.
Almost a month later, I limped back home to level 3 missions, thankful I never lost my ship. I had the skills for a tank, and could generally get by. I had to jump sometimes, but not that often. Still, it was close a few times, and losing 200 mil would have really hurt. My speed at completing the missions was just horrible -- my gunnery was so bad I seriously struggled to pop anything other than other battleships, and my drones were woefully inadequate (even with 5 heavys or tech II mediums, I was unable to clear them with any reliability). It was far, far more risky and I wasn't even earning as much isk per hour as I did in level 3s (I cruised through level 3 with my eyes closed).
So in short -- listen to what the vets are saying. I too thought I was ready, and I wasn't. Stick in your battlecruiser until you have a wide variety of support skills trained up to a reasonable level. I'm not talking 2 mil SP, I'm talking at least 5.
My 2 isk. |
Hrett
Federal Defence Union
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Posted - 2009.01.20 22:04:00 -
[28]
I think I started level 4s at 3M-4M SP. I started out as gallente soldier though, and all of my skills were combat related. I used a Domi because it is much cheaper and more versitle than teh Mega, because of your massive drone bay. I had a mostly full t2 tank. I dont have EFT here, but this is what I recall my Domi fit is:
Highs: 4xDual 250 Rails. (with Faction AM and Iridum ammo). 1x Drone link Aug
Mids: 1xNamed AB 4xCap Recharger IIs (or whatever the mid-slot cap chargers are called, I forget).
Lows: 2x LARII (actually I started with best t1 named) 2 x primary damage Harderners II 1 x secondary damage hardeners II 1 x DCU II
Rigs: 2x CCC 1 x Aux Nano pump.
I have NEVER lost this ship in any level 4, and I have run them all. The main advice I would give is:
1. Research before you go, and tab out if you have questions. Pulls are most important. (I think it is evemissions.com or somesuch). 2. Align ALWAYS. If you are always aligned to something, you will escape if things get hairy. 3. Use your drones for the appropriate sized vessels. Lights for frigs/dessies, meds for crusers/bc, heavies for BBs. Take mission-specific damage drones. Get t2 light and medium drones as soon as you can, after your tank is full t2.
Good luck! |
Rodmill
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Posted - 2009.01.21 01:06:00 -
[29]
Thank you for your replies.. I can see the importance and effects of skills and i am well aware that i m too far from "decent" bs pilot but ; I am bored and the fact that i started this game because of its pvp and never attack or attacked in 2 months disappointed me..( yes it was the real problem ) maybe i should be just patient about it but the idea of running the same missions for 3-4 months more is killing me.. Maybe i should get a frigate and enlist for war effort.( Like i know what it is )
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Hrett
Federal Defence Union
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Posted - 2009.01.21 07:06:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Rodmill Thank you for your replies.. I can see the importance and effects of skills and i am well aware that i m too far from "decent" bs pilot but ; I am bored and the fact that i started this game because of its pvp and never attack or attacked in 2 months disappointed me..( yes it was the real problem ) maybe i should be just patient about it but the idea of running the same missions for 3-4 months more is killing me.. Maybe i should get a frigate and enlist for war effort.( Like i know what it is )
I have to say that faction warefare is really good for pvp. There are always fights. Fit some cheap t1 frigs and cruisers and go at em. There is always someone around to shoot. |
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