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5pinDizzy
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Posted - 2009.01.21 16:59:00 -
[1]
This change still pretty damn annoying tbh.
When I lived in nullsec I escaped bubblecamps a multitude of times in a tech 1 hauler believe it or not. Just gotta rely on a bit of buffer tank and a lot of speed coupled likely with some warp core stabs.
If I still did live in nullsec I'd be moving hundreds of millions worth of goods between nullsec and empire everyday as I've absolutely no doubt I could now do it blindfolded.
I'm not bitter that I personally am not capitalising on this, I make enough isk and do what I enjoy in empire, I hate the idea of living in nullsec again with a passion.
It's just that you're spoonfeeding nullsec carebearers with this kind of advantage.
I like that the nullsec and empire market to remain seperate to some degree, I think it adds to the nullsec experience of making it out their on your own if your alliance has to mainly mine its own materials to build its own stuff to fund its own market.
RATHER than an ton of people bringing their booty to and from empire and affecting the market in a few different negative ways.
Ok yes people could always move their stuff in carriers. But to be fair, but a carrier was always a necessity for moving home and anyway it's a major upheavel jumping a carrier or a tech 2 freighter to and from nullsec/lowsec, which can benefit from teamwork, how it should be I think.
Being able tightly compress minerals to many times as small a space with a rorqual (or even an orca now I believe) and then being able to cram them on a what is pretty much an uncatchable ship is a joke though in my opinion.
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Spanner Frew
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Posted - 2009.01.21 18:50:00 -
[2]
Wait wait wait! Let me call the WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAmbulance!
Seriously, they're fine. There needs to be a ship that can bust just about any gate camp with the proper piloting (hence the name). |
Huan CK
Gallente GK inc. R.U.R.
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Posted - 2009.01.21 20:41:00 -
[3]
Its called "Blockade Runner". Go figure :) |
5pinDizzy
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Posted - 2009.01.21 20:41:00 -
[4]
Edited by: 5pinDizzy on 21/01/2009 20:43:54
They could even at least try to cover up the BS fluff they write as they go along though.
Originally by: Cov Ops II description A very specialized piece of technology the covert ops cloak is designed for use in tandem with the covert ops frigate. Although it could theoreticaly work on other ships its spatial distortion field is so unstable that trying to compensate for its fluctuations would overwhelm even the largest standard ship computers.
Oh hai, blockade runner heer! 10 times biggar than cov ops frigate doncha know, lulz!
I'll tell you my suggested fix.
Take away their Cov Ops cloak fitting ability and give them a cloaked velocity bonus.
They'll still be damned hard to kill, but you might actually see one once in a while. At the moment they might aswell not have a ship model, they are like ghosts.
Oh and guess what guyz! They were called blockade runners several years before their cov ops patch, go figure.
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Cedric Diggory
Perfunctory Oleaginous Laocoon Mugwumps
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Posted - 2009.01.21 20:44:00 -
[5]
Quote: They'll still be damned hard to kill, but you might actually see one once in a while. At the moment they might aswell not have a ship model, they are like ghosts.
Yep. What they need is the normal cloak + cloaked velocity bonus so they can cloak, align, decloak and instantly warp. |
Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.01.21 21:14:00 -
[6]
Originally by: 5pinDizzy
When I lived in nullsec I escaped bubblecamps a multitude of times in a tech 1 hauler believe it or not. Just gotta rely on a bit of buffer tank and a lot of speed coupled likely with some warp core stabs.
Nice trick, explain how the WCS helped against a bubble.
And maybe you are not aware of that, but now there is a class of ships with infinite warp scramble and a nice range for the scrambler, they are called heavy interdictors.
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Sig Sour
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Posted - 2009.01.21 21:16:00 -
[7]
nerf cow
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NightF0x
Gallente Ardent Industrial Arcane Alliance
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Posted - 2009.01.21 23:34:00 -
[8]
What exactly is your issue and proposal? I missed it in your wall of crying text about null-sec and markets |
Marcus Gideon
Gallente Excessive Force
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Posted - 2009.01.21 23:45:00 -
[9]
I think the issue is... he is tired of Blockade Runners, umm... running his blockades.
And his proposal is "CCP, fix it! NAO!" --- Don't take my ranting personally. I may just be arguing the topic, unless you're saying something stupid, and then I mean every word. "Players don't want Variety. They want THE BEST" |
Johli
Caldari AWE Corporation Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2009.01.21 23:49:00 -
[10]
confirming that op needs to learn how to gatecamp.
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5pinDizzy
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Posted - 2009.01.22 00:15:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Venkul Mul
Nice trick, explain how the WCS helped against a bubble.
Well apparently, people who happened to be stationed at a bubblecamp will try to follow you outside the area of effect of bubbles as you try to warp away once you've cleared the bubble yourself, small ships called interceptors are usually the best at this due to their typical speed attributes, these small ships commonly fit these small modules with a similar effect to bubbles called warp core scramblers. Hope this helps.
Originally by: Venkul Mul
And maybe you are not aware of that, but now there is a class of ships with infinite warp scramble and a nice range for the scrambler, they are called heavy interdictors.
I am indeed.
Are you aware we now have humoungous region gates also, which are the most common points for interception. That have recently been added.
Are you also aware that blockade runners have a considerably greater allign and warp time then they once did. When it wasn't too shabby in the first place?
They may run into trouble if they get their mwd shut off by a hictor or a 2 point scrambler.
But if you read my suggestion earlier, which I'm doubting.
Originally by: me Take away their Cov Ops cloak fitting ability and give them a cloaked velocity bonus.
In my opinion they should be quite rather fast when cloaked, probably something like 800 m/s so they can navigate their way around the guards on a bubble camp they approach in system.
Then on the other side, cloak instantly to avoid an enemy that will have come through to scramble you. Burn away from him, then when safe, uncloak and warp.
You see, you're still pretty damn safe without this ridiculous invulnerability.
The only the reason Cov Ops frigate should be tolerated is they hold no real logistical gain over your enemy. They make a great pair of eyes and they allow people to explore the universe so they're great.
Originally by: NightF0x What exactly is your issue and proposal? I missed it in your wall of crying text about null-sec and markets
I do apologise about that. I didn't want to confuse people with editing but yeah, it's too far down a long read of whine, so I'll edit the OP for others consideration.
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Shaka Quatuic
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Posted - 2009.01.22 03:24:00 -
[12]
I agree... somebody should call the Waaaaaambulance...
seriously though, I have in fact seen prowler kills on the KW killboards. they arent invincible, and have a very specific niche - short-notice transport of valuable or mission-critical supplies in small to medium quantities.
the OPs whining about the covops blockade runners messing up the markets is a non-issue, as most of the 0.0 alliances use them only for moving things FEDEX-Overnight style: when it absolutely positively has to be there ASAP, use a covops or blockade runner. everything else gets ferried about by jump freighter, rorqual or carrier nowadays, but those runs have to wait for a full load to be economical, and so can take days to prepare. jump freighters mess up the market far more than runners ever will
a runner can be dispatched on a moments notice, and needs to be able to guarantee delivery under everything but the most terrible of terrible situations. an improved cloak compromises that capability - I certainly wouldnt bother to fly a prowler myself it it was limited to an improved cloak.
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Typhado3
Minmatar Ashen Lion Mining and Production Consortium Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2009.01.22 07:59:00 -
[13]
stick a buble camp up put cans + ppl + ppl's drones on the warp in point from the gate and when that invincible blockade runner lands right on top of them it will quickly loose it's invincibility.
now before you say there are ways around that massive gatecamp trap I know and I would do them to avoid the camp but you said the blockade runner could be flown by anyone with a blindfold and be invincible.
the thing is it's a ship that is damn near uncatchable when flown right. I say uncatchable cause that's different from invincible, it's only invincible when it's cloaked where it can't do anything even if it isn't cloaked it can't tank, deal damage or even fit much ewar..... hell it can't even haul much, the prowler can't even haul 9km3 with rigs. |
Astria Tiphareth
Caldari 24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2009.01.22 11:46:00 -
[14]
As it stands, I don't agree with the OP.
However, if someone wants to do a proper analysis of the gatecamp with the following:
1) Do it objectively from both camper and victim's sides. 2) Make clear distinctions between low-sec and null-sec scenarios. 3) Establish what sort of continuum of possibility we should have - i.e. what ships should get through what gatecamp. 4) Compare it to what we currently have.
Then perhaps we might have a good starting point for discussion. (I am not volunteering precisely because I don't believe I have sufficient experience to see both sides completely).
As it stands, we have thread after thread of a) gatecampers coming in and complaining stuff got through camps and b) victims of gatecamps coming in and complaining they got killed at a camp. It's pointless, because it's starting from a biased perspective.
All I have seen so far are 'bigger! better!' methods for fixing the gatecamp concept. Tougher sentries, heavy interdictors (which weren't added for camping but are being used for it, and not that surprisingly), cloaking transports, the list goes on. It seems like outlaws are unable to cope with the notion that actually their target is a person who is also playing to win, and will do their utmost to run away, and victims are unable to cope with the notion that the pirate is trying to make a living, or the alliance is trying to hold their territory (NB: I have far less time for the other low-sec outlaws just padding killboards for no good reason).
When we're at a point where the best way to get through a gatecamp is to exploit a rather silly MWD+cloak trick, it begs the question as to where do you go after that. I'd love for some pirates and some carebears to get together and actually answer the question I asked above, but somehow I don't expect it to happen.
Originally by: 5pinDizzy ...tightly compress minerals ...(or even an orca now I believe)..
Not correct. Orca cannot compress. |
5pinDizzy
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Posted - 2009.01.22 23:55:00 -
[15]
How can you have a balanced argument when there pretty much is no side to a campers argument where these ships are concerned?
I've never seen a killmail for a blockade runner with a cov ops II.
Oh I'm sure you'll find one somewhere, but I bet-
It was piloted by the same idiots I've seen sitting around afk in their covert ops frigates that died.
OR
Someone lagged/dc'd/misclicked
OR
It was killed by a fleet of around 100 ships blobbed around a gate.
I'm surprised people are still buy and fly normal transports anymore.
They're now playing second fiddle to the orca as a huge ore hauler.
Ok they have potentially a bigger cargohold then a blockade runner still...
..but it's designed to tank, so thats most of the lowslots particularly on armor tanking race transports.
The blockade runner however, oh wait whats that?
Yeah, the cov ops cloak ii is its tank. Gee I guess that's a full low rack of cargo expander ii's then. |
Karentaki
Gallente Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.01.23 00:05:00 -
[16]
Come to 0.0 and we'll see how your blockade runner stands up to a 50 man gatecamp with bubbles and interceptors orbiting the gate. Oh right, sorry, forgot you won't leave you're lowsec gate where you can just sit there in your blob and kill anything that comes though except for maybe 5 ship classes. |
Drake Draconis
Minmatar Shadow Cadre Worlds End Consortium
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Posted - 2009.01.23 00:18:00 -
[17]
WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH (pulls over)
(gets gurny and hauls OP off to the hospital)
Dude... what the heck is your problem?
You obviously don't have the slightest idea of what a blockade runner's weakness's are.
I suggest you go learn the ship yourself and then try taking one to 0.0 like it was suggested before you start flapping your idiotic gums off.
I happen to pilot one myself.. and I can tell you right now... I'm not THAT bold to think I'm invincible.
There are a number of critical points where things can go horribly wrong... even with a covert ops cloak.
Maybe with more experience I'll get more confidence... but we are not impossible to kill.
IF you think so.. then you are obviously inept in your skill.. and should try something else.
Oh and the ships called a Blockade Runner for a reason.... DUH? It's supposed to be damn near hard to catch... but not impossible. |
Scatim Helicon
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.01.23 00:23:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Scatim Helicon on 23/01/2009 00:23:35
Originally by: 5pinDizzy So are you implying you and your friends have killed blockade runner with a cov ops ii fitted?
Perhaps you'd like to link me to the kill mail if you want me to take you at your word?
Take your pick: http://killboard.goonfleet.com/shipgroup/Transport%20Ship
Looks like even goons can manage to kill their share of blockade runners. Maybe you should stop sucking? -----------
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LEGO Commander
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Posted - 2009.01.23 00:45:00 -
[19]
Edited by: LEGO Commander on 23/01/2009 00:45:43 I toadaly agre wif thiz gui. Them dammed Blockade Runnerz, running mah blockadez!
Kan we alsow keep thoz Battleshipz frum beeng gud at battlez? And them Covert Ops from beeng covert?
I alsow thnk Freighters carey two much freight. They need there cargo capacity nerfed!!1!one /sarcasm |
5pinDizzy
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Posted - 2009.01.23 03:47:00 -
[20]
Edited by: 5pinDizzy on 23/01/2009 03:55:13
Originally by: Drake Draconis WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH (pulls over)
(gets gurny and hauls OP off to the hospital)
Dude... what the heck is your problem?
You obviously don't have the slightest idea of what a blockade runner's weakness's are.
I suggest you go learn the ship yourself and then try taking one to 0.0 like it was suggested before you start flapping your idiotic gums off.
I happen to pilot one myself.. and I can tell you right now... I'm not THAT bold to think I'm invincible.
There are a number of critical points where things can go horribly wrong... even with a covert ops cloak.
Maybe with more experience I'll get more confidence... but we are not impossible to kill.
IF you think so.. then you are obviously inept in your skill.. and should try something else.
Oh and the ships called a Blockade Runner for a reason.... DUH? It's supposed to be damn near hard to catch... but not impossible.
*Wipes the foam and spit off his face*
So if I can't catch Blockade Runners at gates it's my inept skill.
But If say I can run other peoples camps pretty easily piloting one then I need to learn more about the ship?
Double standards much?
Originally by: Scatim Helicon Edited by: Scatim Helicon on 23/01/2009 00:23:35
Originally by: 5pinDizzy So are you implying you and your friends have killed blockade runner with a cov ops ii fitted?
Perhaps you'd like to link me to the kill mail if you want me to take you at your word?
Take your pick: http://killboard.goonfleet.com/shipgroup/Transport%20Ship
Looks like even goons can manage to kill their share of blockade runners. Maybe you should stop sucking?
You want little old me to try and compete with the statistics of eves biggest alliance? the combined might of a 5000+ man alliance? sheesh
I had half a look, first blockade runner was only using an afterburner, second blockade runner was only using a prototype cloak.
So you can imagine what a lot of those kills must be like. |
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Dianeces
The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.01.23 04:03:00 -
[21]
I could've sworn one of the reasons nanos got nerfed was because people thought they were too hard to kill. I also seem to recall one of the counters thrown out was to bring more people, which was usually disparaged because people think it shouldn't take a significantly greater number of people to kill one type of ship.
Hmm, that's odd. I'm getting the feeling like I've seen conversations like this before. It's kinda creepy, in a way.
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5pinDizzy
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Posted - 2009.01.23 04:10:00 -
[22]
Edited by: 5pinDizzy on 23/01/2009 04:14:23
Originally by: Dianeces
Hmm, that's odd. I'm getting the feeling like I've seen conversations like this before. It's kinda creepy, in a way.
Was probably one of my friends from our "special" circle.
If I'm given the impression people are happy with the way things are then I'll shuttup at some point anyway.
It sucks to be called stupid and idiotic for having your own independant thoughts and ideas from the crowd all the time.
If you look you'll see a lot of people will say you don't know this or you don't know that. Notice also how they'll never back up their words with hard examples from their own vaunted knowledge.
Eve community is pretty fickle if you ask me, I've seen them whine and cry about an incoming change, then whine and cry at someone mentioning maybe taking it away over dozens of things. I'm probably just the same though. |
Ethic Fail
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Posted - 2009.01.23 08:19:00 -
[23]
This post is like a fine whine. It gets louder with age... |
Odessima
Caldari The Black Rabbits The Gurlstas Associates
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Posted - 2009.01.23 10:26:00 -
[24]
Originally by: LEGO Commander Edited by: LEGO Commander on 23/01/2009 00:45:43 I toadaly agre wif thiz gui. Them dammed Blockade Runnerz, running mah blockadez!
Kan we alsow keep thoz Battleshipz frum beeng gud at battlez? And them Covert Ops from beeng covert?
I alsow thnk Freighters carey two much freight. They need there cargo capacity nerfed!!1!one /sarcasm
I think eve already took care of the battleship part for you
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Caffeine Junkie
Atomic Battle Penguins
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Posted - 2009.01.23 15:14:00 -
[25]
RSB Inty with good scram = dead Blockade runner. --------------------------------- (c) CJ 2009 |
War Fairy
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Posted - 2009.01.23 16:55:00 -
[26]
Originally by: 5pinDizzy
Are you aware we now have humoungous region gates also, which are the most common points for interception. That have recently been added.
That's just ****** stupid. Don't camp the big gate. Camp the smaller gate next to it.
Your failure to adapt does not mean ships should be nerfed.
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Drake Draconis
Minmatar Shadow Cadre Worlds End Consortium
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Posted - 2009.01.23 20:40:00 -
[27]
Originally by: 5pinDizzy
Originally by: Scatim Helicon Edited by: Scatim Helicon on 23/01/2009 00:23:35
Originally by: 5pinDizzy So are you implying you and your friends have killed blockade runner with a cov ops ii fitted?
Perhaps you'd like to link me to the kill mail if you want me to take you at your word?
Take your pick: http://killboard.goonfleet.com/shipgroup/Transport%20Ship
Looks like even goons can manage to kill their share of blockade runners. Maybe you should stop sucking?
You want little old me to try and compete with the statistics of eves biggest alliance? the combined might of a 5000+ man alliance? sheesh
Double Standards Much?
err.. uh Coward? err.... |
5pinDizzy
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Posted - 2009.01.23 21:44:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Caffeine Junkie RSB Inty with good scram = dead Blockade runner.
Really? Done this have you? I've been RSB'd to around 2500 sensor strength before and told that a blockade runner was coming through. Assuming he clicks fast enough he shouldn't really even register on screen. This particular incident in my mind, as soon as he appeared and I tried to lock him Message 'Target is no longer present'
I've got no problem with this anyway, or I'd be asking for it to have no cloak related bonuses whatsoever.
Originally by: War Fairy
Originally by: 5pinDizzy
Are you aware we now have humoungous region gates also, which are the most common points for interception. That have recently been added.
That's just ****** stupid. Don't camp the big gate. Camp the smaller gate next to it.
Your failure to adapt does not mean ships should be nerfed.
Well stupid to camp the large cates with a tiny gang yes, anyway who said I camp the big gates personally?
All I see is all these old prejudiced opinions on what someone asks for, concerning what this character must do ingame and how it benefits them. I'm not going to want blockade runners to be nerfed into the floor when I fly them also. :-/
Originally by: Drake Draconis
err.. uh Coward? err....
The point was, I asked him to provide one from his corp, as it was a reasonable sized corp, and someone else comes along and throws the killboard link to the biggest alliance ingame, am I supposed to gasp or something?
Pretty sure I had already said you'd need a very large gang indeed around a gate using interceptors and having their drones out to have any sort of dumb luck of unclocking one. |
Inquisitor Berthez
Make Love To War
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Posted - 2009.01.24 23:35:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Inquisitor Berthez on 24/01/2009 23:37:36
Originally by: 5pinDizzy
Originally by: Scatim Helicon Edited by: Scatim Helicon on 23/01/2009 00:23:35
Originally by: 5pinDizzy So are you implying you and your friends have killed blockade runner with a cov ops ii fitted?
Perhaps you'd like to link me to the kill mail if you want me to take you at your word?
Take your pick: http://killboard.goonfleet.com/shipgroup/Transport%20Ship
Looks like even goons can manage to kill their share of blockade runners. Maybe you should stop sucking?
You want little old me to try and compete with the statistics of eves biggest alliance? the combined might of a 5000+ man alliance? sheesh
I had half a look, first blockade runner was only using an afterburner, second blockade runner was only using a prototype cloak.
So you can imagine what a lot of those kills must be like.
Of course an ingame entity with the man power to completely fill up the entire void of space 100km around a gate can kill blockade runners.
I clicked the link and the three I clicked all had the Cov Ops cloak. Blockade Runners are not invicible. You just need to make proper effort to catch one or don't whine. FYI I've run some blockades in a Bestower with a prototype cloak and some warp core stabs. Some gatecamps are just hilarious, perhaps you guys need to make some changes.
Originally by: 5pinDizzy Pretty sure I had already said you'd need a very large gang indeed around a gate using interceptors and having their drones out to have any sort of dumb luck of unclocking one.
Here's a tip, try ^ this.
Pimp my NavPoc
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Barbara Nichole
Cryogenic Consultancy Black Sun Alliance
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Posted - 2009.01.26 06:45:00 -
[30]
Just cuz you can't catch em doesn't make them invinsible. nother pathetic attempt to say you should be able to kill everything the same way. |
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