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MailDeadDrop
Globaltech Industries
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Posted - 2009.01.21 19:02:00 -
[1]
Originally by: CCP Navigator A blog is coming really soon regarding wormholes so please be patient. I can confirm that wormholes are not exclusive to Delve or any other region for that matter.
Can you please request that the blog explicitly confirm/deny that all wormhole types will be available in all systems? Otherwise we could just end up with the same cruddy situation where the "yeah, you can rat in (nearly) any system. Oh, you wanted the good rats with high bounties and that drop the officer fittings? Oh, you're SOL; we reserved those for the 0.0 alliances..."
MDD |
Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
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Posted - 2009.01.21 19:15:00 -
[2]
Originally by: MailDeadDrop Can you please request that the blog explicitly confirm/deny that all wormhole types will be available in all systems? Otherwise we could just end up with the same cruddy situation where the "yeah, you can rat in (nearly) any system. Oh, you wanted the good rats with high bounties and that drop the officer fittings? Oh, you're SOL; we reserved those for the 0.0 alliances..."
Cruddy situation?
Yeah.. lets add 1.8M BS spawns.. ah, why halfway, lets go the full mile.. why not 2M frig spawns in high sec? There's allready too much easy money to be made in high sec.. don't make it worse by wishing such BS.
If you want to have the juicy stuff grow some balls. No easy meal here.
And btw, be carfull what you wish for.. If they put up .0 wormholes in high sec, there will be for sure some pew-pew-guys looking for. At least I would.. why? Cause the Easy-Target-Rate in those BearHoles will be much higher than in low/null..
Forge '07 on Sale
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Straight Chillen
Gallente The Collective Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.01.21 19:17:00 -
[3]
You know that wormholes will be taking you to systems that dont have any kind of concord or empire presence right?
Be careful waht you wish for carebears Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Eran Laude
Gallente The Aduro Protocol
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Posted - 2009.01.21 19:19:00 -
[4]
Pay some money to CCP - your lords and masters - and buy E-ON. It explains in an article that - I quote - "you will be able to find wormholes pretty much anywhere, if you're lucky . . . but you have to go looking for them."
So basically the 'bear crowd will sadly have access to wormholes. Hopefully they'll be a lot less frequent in Empire so that you are actually encouraged to take some risks and go out to cold, dark, harsh space to make ISKs for once.
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Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
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Posted - 2009.01.21 19:26:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Eran Laude So basically the 'bear crowd will sadly have access to wormholes. Hopefully they'll be a lot less frequent in Empire so that you are actually encouraged to take some risks and go out to cold, dark, harsh space to make ISKs for once.
Here's hope that the 'cold, dark, harsh space' crawls up until high sec, if they want the same stuff as the 'evildoers'
Forge '07 on Sale
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Rivqua
Caldari Omega Wing R.E.P.O.
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Posted - 2009.01.21 19:28:00 -
[6]
What does it matter where the wormhole originates? What does it matter if the bears want the holes in highsec. When they use it, and up in "wildspace" you just blow them up to pieaces until they learn. That's the GOOD thing about bearholes. They probe in the security of highsec, then enter the wormhole, and there you are waiting to send them back to their beloved empire :)
/Riv
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Gone'Postal
Aztec Industry
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Posted - 2009.01.21 19:33:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Rivqua They probe in the security of highsec, then enter the wormhole, and there you are waiting to send them back to their beloved empire :)
I'd forgotten how boring camping for kill mails was, Every so often a empire guy comes to GD and emo-crys about being toasted before he even got 2 jumps into lowsec//0.0 space IF wormholes are going to be the same, then I don't see a reason for most empire guys to even get their probe ship out. |
Neermark
JotunHeim Hird X13 Alliance
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Posted - 2009.01.21 19:37:00 -
[8]
Rumor on SHC has it, that wormholes is out sisi...
C/D ?
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Rivqua
Caldari Omega Wing R.E.P.O.
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Posted - 2009.01.21 19:37:00 -
[9]
Who said anything about camping, you are out there, in the uncharted territories... doing your thing, getting the T3 loot/salvage/bpos and keeping a eye on the directional scanner... Suddenly you see a bear.... you hit cloak, tell your prober friend to start locating, you send the bear home, then continue on toward the untold riches of wild space :)
I think it's a awesome combination. There is this vast pool of nearly-accessible isk/content/building materials/bpos for t3 there, and the bears can prepare in their favorite station in highsec, but they need to get organized when entering, and know what they are doing.
I think it will be some fun fights, or there will be alot of soloing. Either or is ok with me.
/Riv
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Rivqua
Caldari Omega Wing R.E.P.O.
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Posted - 2009.01.21 19:38:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Neermark Rumor on SHC has it, that wormholes is out sisi...
C/D ?
D Currently. I have a feeling it would need a slightly bigger download then what's there now to deploy the wormholes. Mult has a higher build, but even that one is quite small.
I am betting they won't deploy anything major until after the Alliance Tournament.
/Riv
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Gone'Postal
Aztec Industry
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Posted - 2009.01.21 19:40:00 -
[11]
Who said anything about the exit of the wormholes being dynamic? I assume there not going to be because we know what would happen, one dude jumps in, gets ship killed and no longer has probes to find an exit wormhole.
Since I'm going with there static exits. I forsee mass campage.
Originally by: masternerdguy
Officer mods arent spread out because the bpos are innacesible to 99% of eve.
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MailDeadDrop
Globaltech Industries
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Posted - 2009.01.21 19:44:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Gone'Postal Who said anything about the exit of the wormholes being dynamic? I assume there not going to be because we know what would happen, one dude jumps in, gets ship killed and no longer has probes to find an exit wormhole.
Since I'm going with there static exits. I forsee mass campage.
They could always self-destruct the pod. Or call for a corpie to bring in antoher ship (inside an industrial).
MDD Jump Clones: 8M and NO corp switching |
Rivqua
Caldari Omega Wing R.E.P.O.
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Posted - 2009.01.21 19:45:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Rivqua on 21/01/2009 19:46:03
Originally by: Gone'Postal Who said anything about the exit of the wormholes being dynamic? I assume there not going to be because we know what would happen, one dude jumps in, gets ship killed and no longer has probes to find an exit wormhole.
Since I'm going with there static exits. I forsee mass campage.
Quite unlikely, as the wormholes will open and close. If you enter a system, and are there for hours or days, the way you came in will close, and another will open, and that one takes you to a different normal space or wild space system.
That guy in your example always has the option of A) conferencing with his buddies or B) self destructing.
I quite belive the exit will be static for the single wormhole, so you can come back to it. But when it closes, and later appears, there is no need for it to be in the same location, think the random spawning of plexes around any current system, the same mechanic could easily apply.
/Riv
Edit: spelling
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MailDeadDrop
Globaltech Industries
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Posted - 2009.01.21 19:46:00 -
[14]
Not really on-topic for this thread, but may I point out that there is a built-in inequity already between the PvE and the PVE-hunting PvP:
The PvP need only fit his/her ship for PvP. The PvE needs to fit for both the PvE *and* the PvP encounters.
This, IMO, is the root cause of why there are so few PvE in lowsec/0.0 as compared to highsec. Having to fit for both PvE and PvP makes for higher losses, which skews the risk/reward equation, making highsec PvE a better risk/reward ratio (versus lowsec or 0.0 PvE).
Rather than bleat for various hamfisted "solutions" to the problem of underutilized lowsec, perhaps we should be asking CCP to reduce the gulf between PvE and PvP. Make CONCORD spawn probability be a function of system security, so that sometimes they don't come in 0.8-0.5, and sometimes they *do* come in 0.4-0.1. Make their response time be a function of the security status of the combatants. Just generally make it so that neither PvE nor PvP is certain of the outcome.
MDD Jump Clones: 8M and NO corp switching |
Rivqua
Caldari Omega Wing R.E.P.O.
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Posted - 2009.01.21 19:49:00 -
[15]
Originally by: MailDeadDrop Not really on-topic for this thread, but may I point out that there is a built-in inequity already between the PvE and the PVE-hunting PvP:
The PvP need only fit his/her ship for PvP. The PvE needs to fit for both the PvE *and* the PvP encounters.
This, IMO, is the root cause of why there are so few PvE in lowsec/0.0 as compared to highsec. Having to fit for both PvE and PvP makes for higher losses, which skews the risk/reward equation, making highsec PvE a better risk/reward ratio (versus lowsec or 0.0 PvE).
Rather than bleat for various hamfisted "solutions" to the problem of underutilized lowsec, perhaps we should be asking CCP to reduce the gulf between PvE and PvP. Make CONCORD spawn probability be a function of system security, so that sometimes they don't come in 0.8-0.5, and sometimes they *do* come in 0.4-0.1. Make their response time be a function of the security status of the combatants. Just generally make it so that neither PvE nor PvP is certain of the outcome.
MDD
I guess you are not really talking all PvE, you are talking Mission-like pve (includes 5/10+ plexes). For belt pve, random rat pve and the new AI rats in wild space, pvP fits will probably apply just as well, just as PvP fits work moderately well for plexing in the faction warfare plexes.
I do not forsee a problem, as long as you do fit "properly". Proper in this case means, trippletanked lolfits, not uber fits :) /Riv
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Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
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Posted - 2009.01.21 19:51:00 -
[16]
Originally by: MailDeadDrop some thread derailing stuff
hehe, i see what you did there
Forge '07 on Sale
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MailDeadDrop
Globaltech Industries
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Posted - 2009.01.21 19:53:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Tres Farmer
Originally by: MailDeadDrop some thread derailing stuff
hehe, i see what you did there
Hey, it's my thread, I can derail it if I wanna.
But it seemed like a good time to inject a thought that's been brewing inside my head for a while. Maybe it's good beer, maybe it's stinky tofu. :shrug: But if we made PvE and PvP more similar, somewhat on a continuum, then I think some of the Bear-vs-Pirate bleating would go away.
MDD Jump Clones: 8M and NO corp switching |
Rivqua
Caldari Omega Wing R.E.P.O.
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Posted - 2009.01.21 19:57:00 -
[18]
Your problem is not the disparity of PvE and PvP, it's that bears crave ISK in sick amounts, and don't want to risk anything for it. Comparably, 0.0 is pretty safe, you can rat, get isk, and its perfectly doable in a PvP ship of almost any kind.
What you can't do is perma tank 2000 dps incomming dmg in a PvP ship that is reliant on cap boosters, and have 1000 "pvp" dps to kill them at the same time. So missions would have to be smaller, but then the bears would complain they are not getting enough isk/hour.
It's a tricky problem to say the least.
/Riv
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MailDeadDrop
Globaltech Industries
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Posted - 2009.01.21 20:03:00 -
[19]
Edited by: MailDeadDrop on 21/01/2009 20:06:09
Originally by: Rivqua bears crave ISK in sick amounts, and don't want to risk anything for it.
By the same logic, one could make the equally pejorative statement that "pirates crave PvP combat in sick amounts, and don't want to risk their ships [by entering highsec where the targets are] to get it."
I really don't want to get into such a mudslinging fest. It doesn't help.
Eve is about risk. If players can precisely and accurately calculate that risk, it actually *reduces* the risk (i.e. the biggest risk is that which is unknown). So, if CCP removes the ability for a missioneer to calculate that they won't be attacked by another player simply by being in a 0.5 sec status system, or if CCP removes the ability for a pirate to calculate that they won't be CONCORDOKKEN by camping the highsec gate in a 0.4 system, that's a good thing (in my book). More briefly: more noise in the system makes for a more exciting game.
MDD Jump Clones: 8M and NO corp switching |
MyOwnSling
Gallente Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.01.21 20:09:00 -
[20]
Originally by: MailDeadDrop Edited by: MailDeadDrop on 21/01/2009 20:06:09
Originally by: Rivqua bears crave ISK in sick amounts, and don't want to risk anything for it.
By the same logic, one could make the equally pejorative statement that "pirates crave PvP combat in sick amounts, and don't want to risk their ships [by entering highsec where the targets are] to get it."
Except you forget the difference that pirates performing their activities in high sec guarantees loss of their ship, whereas PvE guys are not guaranteed to lose their ships when performing their acts in 0.0 (I don't know how many times I've made the transition between empire and 0.0 without encountering anybody). ------------- Stop whining.
Originally by: Puupuu dude... your face...
Originally by: MooKids I have an elite rating in HULL TANKING! That is like saying I can block punches with my face.
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5pinDizzy
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Posted - 2009.01.21 20:13:00 -
[21]
Question :
If they've been adamant for so long about never reducing jump clone time because people jump all over the universe to reach different battles.
If there's been so many complains about jump bridges allowing mega alliances to control far more space then they ever use.
Then whats the deal with worm holes anyway?
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Rivqua
Caldari Omega Wing R.E.P.O.
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Posted - 2009.01.21 20:14:00 -
[22]
Originally by: MailDeadDrop Edited by: MailDeadDrop on 21/01/2009 20:06:09
Originally by: Rivqua bears crave ISK in sick amounts, and don't want to risk anything for it.
By the same logic, one could make the equally pejorative statement that "pirates crave PvP combat in sick amounts, and don't want to risk their ships [by entering highsec where the targets are] to get it."
I really don't want to get into such a mudslinging fest. It doesn't help.
Eve is about risk. If players can precisely and accurately calculate that risk, it actually *reduces* the risk (i.e. the biggest risk is that which is unknown). So, if CCP removes the ability for a missioneer to calculate that they won't be attacked by another player simply by being in a 0.5 sec status system, or if CCP removes the ability for a pirate to calculate that they won't be CONCORDOKKEN by camping the highsec gate in a 0.4 system, that's a good thing (in my book). More briefly: more noise in the system makes for a more exciting game.
MDD
Why would one spawn concord on pirates going about their business in lowsec? It seems quite odd, and I don't see how it can promote pvp?
/Riv
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Rivqua
Caldari Omega Wing R.E.P.O.
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Posted - 2009.01.21 20:16:00 -
[23]
Originally by: 5pinDizzy Question :
If they've been adamant for so long about never reducing jump clone time because people jump all over the universe to reach different battles.
If there's been so many complains about jump bridges allowing mega alliances to control far more space then they ever use.
Then whats the deal with worm holes anyway?
What is your question? Why introduce a new "possible" travelling mechanic? I don't find it likely that this can be seen as a reliable travel mechanic. You jump your defensive fleet into the worm hole, and then your exit moves to Jita. Woo-hoo. You just lost a good portion of your defensive fleet to a finickly wormhole ?
/Riv
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MailDeadDrop
Globaltech Industries
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Posted - 2009.01.21 20:24:00 -
[24]
Originally by: MyOwnSling Except you forget the difference that pirates performing their activities in high sec guarantees loss of their ship, whereas PvE guys are not guaranteed to lose their ships when performing their acts in 0.0 (I don't know how many times I've made the transition between empire and 0.0 without encountering anybody).
I'm not forgetting it -- I'm intentionally not addressing it. Why? Because it is a known, reliable (i.e. risk-free) aspect. It is simply a cost of the PvP. The same cannot be said for the bear transiting the highsec to lowsec gate. They may or may not lose their 800M freighter full of 1B worth of POS reactants. Even if the hull is insured, that is a lot at risk. The pirate can insure their (presumably competently-fit T1) ship and lose *at most* a few million, right? They aren't equivalent. And I'm not trying to say that one is preferable to the other (i.e. side with either the bear or the pirate camp). I'm saying "let's make it harder for everyone to predict." Predictable = boring.
Not all predictability is bad -- CCP should retain the 1.0 and 0.9 behaviors for new players. It takes a while to comprehend just exactly how bad things can get in Eve.
As for "transition between empire and 0.0 without encountering anybody" I transitioned from highsec to 0.0 in a single jump last night in a shuttle. Of course the output gate is bubbled. And camped, but only by a single Onyx. While cloaked, remotely delivered my research job, then burned for the gate. I survived (how do you *not* blow up a shuttle burning back to the gate at a gate camp???). My point? Single instances do not make a good basis for judgment.
MDD Jump Clones: 8M and NO corp switching |
Klavis lychnuchus
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Posted - 2009.01.21 20:25:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Rivqua That's the GOOD thing about bearholes.
Bearholes \/ That's tickled me... And henceforth let no man speak of holes without a Bear, lest the Bears have no holes that are flashy red!
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Rivqua
Caldari Omega Wing R.E.P.O.
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Posted - 2009.01.21 20:27:00 -
[26]
You are not talking about PvP in Highsec right, you are talking about suicide ganking or something?
And the freighter ganking isn't really pvp either, not in the pirates eye anyway, that's just the job. The Freighter could always have hired a scout to check the route for hostiles, there is nothing odd with that.
And your shuttle escpaing could have something to do with the sig radious of a shuttle :)
/Riv
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MailDeadDrop
Globaltech Industries
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Posted - 2009.01.21 20:33:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Rivqua Why would one spawn concord on pirates going about their business in lowsec? It seems quite odd, and I don't see how it can promote pvp?
Well, I'll grant that on its face it does seem odd. I perceive the 0.5-0.4 boundary as a discontinuity: in 0.5, CONCORDOKKEN is guaranteed 100% of the time, in 0.4 it never happens. I'm positing that in order to make PvE players "play" more like PvP players, that CCP change the CONCORD behavior to be more of a continuous spectrum. Why would I want PvE players more like PvP? Because PvP is the endgame of eve. The game itself should encourage that migration.
If PvE players perceive 0.4 as only very slightly more risky than 0.5, then more will go there. And if the 1.0-0.9 PvE player perceives 0.5 as only slightly more safe than 0.4, then they should fit ships more PvP-ish even on PvE activities.
Maybe I'm wrong -- maybe trial by fire exposure to PvP (via the highsec gate camp in the 0.4 system) is the best way to "teach" players PvP. That's what we have today, and there seems to be alot of player name-calling and whining surrounding it, neither of which seem very effective to productive, enjoyable gameplay.
MDD Jump Clones: 8M and NO corp switching |
MailDeadDrop
Globaltech Industries
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Posted - 2009.01.21 20:47:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Rivqua You are not talking about PvP in Highsec right, you are talking about suicide ganking or something?
I was talking about non-consensual highsec PvP. Call it ganking if you must.
Originally by: Rivqua And the freighter ganking isn't really pvp either, not in the pirates eye anyway, that's just the job. The Freighter could always have hired a scout to check the route for hostiles, there is nothing odd with that.
I'm under the impression that most PvE's and a great number of pirates (all?) consider the freighter combat "PvP", but I can see where could be non-pirate PvP who would consider such activity beneath them. Apologies if my overbroad statements offended any such PvPers. Yes, a scout does improve the odds for the freighter captain, but even scouted freighters get caught. I'd rather not start including multi-character scenarios, as it really complicates things quite quickly.
MDD Jump Clones: 8M and NO corp switching |
Rivqua
Caldari Omega Wing R.E.P.O.
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Posted - 2009.01.21 21:14:00 -
[29]
I fly into lowsec quite often, usually to shorten trips through empire, and in the last 3 months, I have not encounted a gate camp. I know they exist, what I am trying to say is, they are definately the average first lowsec jump for every high sec bear in empire.
I think most bears just go into lowsec, go to their belt, and later, a pirate finds them, ransoms or sends them home by clonevat express.
/Riv
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Eran Laude
Gallente The Aduro Protocol
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Posted - 2009.01.21 21:16:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Rivqua I fly into lowsec quite often, usually to shorten trips through empire, and in the last 3 months, I have not encounted a gate camp. I know they exist, what I am trying to say is, they are definately the average first lowsec jump for every high sec bear in empire.
I think most bears just go into lowsec, go to their belt, and later, a pirate finds them, ransoms or sends them home by clonevat express.
/Riv
Rancer is responsible for the creation of more carebears than any other single source in New Eden.
C/D?
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