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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Zhang Ramses
Chaos From Order Manifest Destiny.
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Posted - 2009.01.25 15:35:00 -
[1]
Sitting with your team ready to begin you suddenly see...
30 seconds 10 seconds 5 4 3 2 1 STOP!
At least two teams thus far have had problems because they see this countdown and they start shooting as soon as they (fail to) read the word "STOP!". My team was one of them, and we only got a penalty because the ship we shot survived. It would appear that the team that just got disqualified killed a ship when they jumped the gun.
Oh well.
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Soryn Kael
Chaos From Order Manifest Destiny.
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Posted - 2009.01.25 15:35:00 -
[2]
Given the number of people with early firing.. I think they need to make it a lot clearer.
5 will get you 10 that they started shooting when they were doing the ENDING countdown for the other match and killed a tenth ship.
There is no real indication of what you're supposed to go on. They state there's a countdown in the chat with limited specifics at to other details and there's nothing differentiating the countdown. They need to specify match ending and match beginning in the countdown. It would save a LOT of grief for everybody involved.
We got a 10 point penalty for this. IMO given the number of teams it is happening to, this is looking like CCP's bad.
It should be instead of 30 seconds.. 10 etc.
Match Ending or Beginning in 30 seconds Those words could save a LOT of trouble for the GM team.
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Verone
Gallente Veto Corp
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Posted - 2009.01.25 15:37:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Zhang Ramses ...they start shooting as soon as they (fail to) read the word "STOP!".
That's the issue, not CCP's countdown.
"STOP!" in local doesn't mean OK GUYS, FIGHT!... especially SEVEN MINUTES before the match is due to start
\o/ EON FICTION WRITER OF THE YEAR! \o/
>>> THE LIFE OF AN OUTLAW <<< |
Soryn Kael
Chaos From Order Manifest Destiny.
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Posted - 2009.01.25 15:38:00 -
[4]
If 3 teams now have screwed it up it IS an issue.
Label the countdown?
I don't think it's costing CCP per letter of text in local. That would solve the problem period.
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Soryn Kael
Chaos From Order Manifest Destiny.
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Posted - 2009.01.25 15:40:00 -
[5]
We don't even care about our penalty, it's not going to make or break us one way or another.
It would be better just labeling the countdowns, it would eliminate the confusion and make it a better tournament period. It's not a hard change to make.
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Alurexar
Celestial Ascension Tenth Legion
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Posted - 2009.01.25 15:41:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Alurexar on 25/01/2009 15:42:22 i agree this is an issue because i think several teams misunderstood the countdown so far. Sadly
maybe have different color? or message for each count down number?
like "10s before the end" "5s before the end"
etc instead of
10 5
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Cidious Optics
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Posted - 2009.01.25 15:46:00 -
[7]
I dont see how people could be so in the dark about the starting countdown
the guy starting the match will produce A HUGE ECM BURST
i'm thinking that the teams arent even bothering reading the rules, and are expecting their fc's to explain everything to them
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Tyrrax Thorrk
Amarr Guiding Hand Social Club Otherworld Empire Productions
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Posted - 2009.01.25 15:56:00 -
[8]
gonna have to agree with Verone here ;P
if it's not close to the time for your match to start, chill -_- |
Soryn Kael
Chaos From Order Manifest Destiny.
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Posted - 2009.01.25 16:00:00 -
[9]
What does it hurt to fix an obvious problem?
Why is there any realistic objection to it?
It's not like we're asking to get our 10 points back or asking for that one group to get their Paladin back or asking for POS to be un-disqualified.
We're asking for a small change to solve the problems. |
Morgan La'Chance
Caldari Dynamic Reallocation and Logistics
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Posted - 2009.01.25 16:08:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Soryn Kael What does it hurt to fix an obvious problem?
We are being elitist about it, that's why. |
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Lasar Bonghits
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Posted - 2009.01.25 16:13:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Soryn Kael It's not like we're asking to get our 10 points back or asking for that one group to get their Paladin back or asking for POS to be un-disqualified.
We're asking for a small change to solve the problems.
Either are we. I am just asking CCP Claw and GM Nova to commit harakiri. Well after the tournament of course, so it doesnt mess with the schedule. |
Minigin
Trinity Corp
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Posted - 2009.01.25 16:27:00 -
[12]
im pretty sure that if you're not ******ed... you wont be disqualified lulz. |
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CCP Claw
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Posted - 2009.01.25 16:34:00 -
[13]
As far as I'm concerned, a combination of:
-Rules on forum -Schedule -Local Chat -Fleet Chat
Should be plenty enough to make this very clear. The fact that over 40 teams have played and only a couple have made a mistake should reinforce this.
However, in an effort to try and make this even clearer, I'm going to slightly alter some of the countdown text I use.
I'd just like to reinforce the point, though, that the early firing was not the reason for the forfeit - they second violation (for movement) on top of that was the reason. |
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Verone
Gallente Veto Corp
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Posted - 2009.01.25 16:34:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Soryn Kael What does it hurt to fix an obvious problem?
Because it's not an issue... POS started shooting SEVEN MINUTES before their match was due to start.
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Soryn Kael
Chaos From Order Manifest Destiny.
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Posted - 2009.01.25 16:38:00 -
[15]
We know Claw and hey, that slight change is all we want. If it can help somebody else not screw up it's worth it. |
ElCoCo
KIA Corp KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2009.01.25 16:42:00 -
[16]
Btw, shouldn't our clients have the same time as each other? I noticed mine was 16.18 when you started the countdown from 10. Boink! |
Borgholio
Minmatar Borgholio's Collective Prime Orbital Systems
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Posted - 2009.01.25 16:49:00 -
[17]
Originally by: CCP Claw As far as I'm concerned, a combination of:
-Rules on forum -Schedule -Local Chat -Fleet Chat
Should be plenty enough to make this very clear. The fact that over 40 teams have played and only a couple have made a mistake should reinforce this.
However, in an effort to try and make this even clearer, I'm going to slightly alter some of the countdown text I use.
I'd just like to reinforce the point, though, that the early firing was not the reason for the forfeit - they second violation (for movement) on top of that was the reason.
Thank you for the update. I think it would also be a good idea to avoid having teams warping to the arena when the previous team is still fighting. The text you used in the countdown would be irrelevant if we had not been already on the firing line with our fingers on the triggers. ----------------------------------- You will be assimilated...bunghole! |
An Anarchyyt
Gallente Battlestars GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.01.25 16:52:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Borgholio Thank you for the update. I think it would also be a good idea to avoid having teams warping to the arena when the previous team is still fighting. The text you used in the countdown would be irrelevant if we had not been already on the firing line with our fingers on the triggers.
And I think it would be a good idea to read things properly. But I guess we can't always get what we want.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
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Lasar Bonghits
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Posted - 2009.01.25 17:01:00 -
[19]
Originally by: CCP Claw As far as I'm concerned, a combination of:
-Rules on forum -Schedule -Local Chat -Fleet Chat
Should be plenty enough to make this very clear. The fact that over 40 teams have played and only a couple have made a mistake should reinforce this.
However, in an effort to try and make this even clearer, I'm going to slightly alter some of the countdown text I use.
I'd just like to reinforce the point, though, that the early firing was not the reason for the forfeit - they second violation (for movement) on top of that was the reason.
As far as I am concerned the problem was caused by
-local chat -fleet chat -rules
We followed the rules and listened to the GM. That was a mistake.
Watch local for a count down. However, that countdown isnt for you, its for the other match that you dont know is going on and no one is going to tell you this cvountdown isnt for you. The fact that you are going to make a change and do nothing now just shows how little spine is there.
Now to admit there is no problem but your are going to fix it anyways is such malarkie. Do nothing so you can keep on the schedule. Spineless. Also 40 teams is 20 matches. Several times is 5 percent a match there is a problem. Seems like something may be a miss here. Add to the fact that very few matches have lasted long enough for this to happen and the percentage of times this has happenend out of how many times it could is very, very high.
Very few matches have lasted long enough for this to happen and the percentage of times this has happenend out of how many times it could is very, very high.
On that note, the blackbird moved at 15:25, over 10 minutes after the this whole thing, it started and stopped. Never heard of a team DQ for this. It was a way out and you took it because you have no back bone. Really easy to be unjust when it serve your purpose to kee to a schedule.
We were just doing our best to follow what we were told to do. The game clock in no way syncs at all. If you ever tried to do something with it you would know this. Hell with 3 clients I get 3 different game clocks. So at no time were we going to be playing off that. The end of the countdown in m logs was at 15:15:10. So verone I have no flippin idea where you came up with seven minutes unless you admit the game clock isnt an issue.
Honestly, this whole thing can die in a fire.
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Darkopteron
Quantum Industries RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2009.01.25 17:18:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Lasar Bonghits Honestly, this whole thing can die in a fire.
/Signed
I've been chatting with the POS guys, and I agree with them this is absolute BS.
CCP should've reimbursed the tenth legion's ships, let the POS blackbird warp back in where he started, and just got on with it.
IMO there should be a rematch.
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csebal
HUN Corp. HUN Reloaded
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Posted - 2009.01.25 18:20:00 -
[21]
Edited by: csebal on 25/01/2009 18:20:57 !! read local VERY carefully. You can hardly explain, that seeing STOP on local was all that confusing and made you act early. For us, its one simple rule: noone acts until the FC gives the order. That is.. only one person can screw up, and if your FC does not have the nerves for a simple countdown, then it might be time to find a working model. !!
It can be done, trust me. Third time around on tournaments and never had a real problem with the rules in the past.
Nonetheless, saying something like: Arena X - match is about to start / end before the countdown would really make things a lot easier. Yesterday i had a funny moment as well, when i did change to local and saw a START countdown there.. took me a good 5 seconds to realize that it was written some 5 minutes ago for the other arena.
Better luck next time. |
Meuchelmorder
C0LDFIRE RUDE Alliance
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Posted - 2009.01.25 22:23:00 -
[22]
Originally by: csebal Edited by: csebal on 25/01/2009 18:20:57
Nonetheless, saying something like: Arena X - match is about to start / end before the countdown would really make things a lot easier.
That in fact is what borked the Church Vs RUDE Match. Claw said Arena 2 and we were in Arena 1.
So the simple fix of typing didnt do the trick, in fact it morphed the issue.
Would it really be so hard to use 2 systems, I mean, put the arena 100k from the gate, jump systems and run the one next door. Is CCP so cheap they arent willing to employ a handful more people on the weekend? And if you had 2 systems, in fact, you could run the matches consecutively and possibly finish in 1 day.
Originally by: Zhulik I thought Premium graphics were supposed to fix that bug where people were trying to salvage Minmatar ships.
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JS LiamElms
Gallente Borgholio's Collective Prime Orbital Systems
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Posted - 2009.01.25 23:15:00 -
[23]
sorry to hear this 'miscommunication' has happened again.
All i suggest, is you DONT have 2 arena's active at the same time. the was no reason to tell us to warp to our arena (pos) before the end of the fight that was going on at the same time in the other arena. That way... any countdown done in any manner is not confused.
Once again, no ship was moving till we misunderstood the only countdown we saw in local after been told to watch local was ours. then we started as informed by our GM that once after the countdown.
simple.... WAIT till one team has finished before warping other teams to any arena. at the moment, you have the next team waiting watching each other in the arena while you end the ongoing match. In our case, that match ended a good 7 mins before we where due to start, we had already been waiting there for a good 5 mins +. If both teams are aligned it would only take 30s for teams to arrive and 1-2 mins for you to say go.
Sadly, your mistakes happened a few times today. Suggesting it was due to a moving fault is shifting blame, we moved cause we activated once the countdown had ended. A mistake in the instructions (or lack of) given to us as we begain fighting after the countdown in local, then you seem to be using a 'movement' error to cover up this miscommunication.
Grow up and take responsibilty.... we have the logs!
-told to watch local for countdown -coutdown is called in local -we started -as we had started, we obviously moved..... |
csebal
HUN Corp. HUN Reloaded
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Posted - 2009.01.26 02:40:00 -
[24]
Edited by: csebal on 26/01/2009 02:44:18 Also an option to have a dedicated channel for each arena, and issue arena specific commands there instead of local. I mean, its convenient to use local, but if it causes problems, it shouldnt be that big of a trouble to use specific channels. |
BravoFox
The Bastards
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Posted - 2009.01.26 02:54:00 -
[25]
Originally by: CCP Claw I'd just like to reinforce the point, though, that the early firing was not the reason for the forfeit - they second violation (for movement) on top of that was the reason.
Was the Blackbird moving involved with the initial false start and then he was caught moving back to his start position where he SHOULD have been in the first place?
Also, exactly what was communicated to both teams after the initial infraction? I think this information will help us decide whether it was worthy a forfeit or not. If CCP just said, "Ok, we're gonna replace the destroyed ships and we'll try to get this started on time." That sort of statement would lead me to believe I should move back to where I am supposed to be so we can get the match started as soon as the ships are replaced. However, if they said, "We're going to replace the destroyed ships so we can continue the match. Do not move or engage" or even "A statement saying, "You're still under pre-start rules while we replace the destroyed ships."
Clarity is the key in situations like this. Players should not be the only ones that need it trained to level V.
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FugginNutz
Caldari Chinchilla Industries Manifest Destiny.
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Posted - 2009.01.26 03:08:00 -
[26]
Edited by: FugginNutz on 26/01/2009 03:08:31
Originally by: Verone
Originally by: Soryn Kael What does it hurt to fix an obvious problem?
Because it's not an issue... POS started shooting SEVEN MINUTES before their match was due to start.
Bandwagon fails...
It's easy for the experienced people to say "Duh...you are n00bz", but countdown clarification is not a flipping hard thing to request for and makes it easier for everyone in the future. |
Garia666
Amarr T.H.U.G L.I.F.E White Core
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Posted - 2009.01.26 05:34:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Garia666 on 26/01/2009 05:34:59 Edited by: Garia666 on 26/01/2009 05:34:24
Originally by: CCP Claw As far as I'm concerned, a combination of:
-Rules on forum -Schedule -Local Chat -Fleet Chat
Should be plenty enough to make this very clear. The fact that over 40 teams have played and only a couple have made a mistake should reinforce this.
However, in an effort to try and make this even clearer, I'm going to slightly alter some of the countdown text I use.
I'd just like to reinforce the point, though, that the early firing was not the reason for the forfeit - they second violation (for movement) on top of that was the reason.
right claw thats why people **** up so many times.. we got our rules 5 minutes before the match it was a wall of text and as a none native english person it takes some time to take it all up. Then when a GM says goodluck and crush your enemy. we got locked by the oponent so we started shooting. We had an tactic to get first lock and kill thats what we traine dupon so we couldnt lose anytime. Then we got punished by taking out an paladin vs an iskhur..
communication wasnt clear at all. Mabe if you have some experience with the tourny or when yo you have done 10 team syou think its clear for your self but it was not.. www.garia.net |
EvilSpork
Invicta. Cry Havoc.
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Posted - 2009.01.26 08:32:00 -
[28]
Originally by: BravoFox
Originally by: CCP Claw I'd just like to reinforce the point, though, that the early firing was not the reason for the forfeit - they second violation (for movement) on top of that was the reason.
Was the Blackbird moving involved with the initial false start and then he was caught moving back to his start position where he SHOULD have been in the first place?
from what they said that was what happened. it looks like whoever was in charge(i dont want to point my finger at CCP Claw if i dont know it was him) just did not listen to what they had to say. if their blackbird was 20kms forward of the possible warp in point, that would be a bit of an issue, no?
this match in no way effects me, but i think there should be a rematch and so they can have an actual fight. what POS did could not have possibly given them an advantage, so it had to be an honest mistake. the countdowns should be labeled, and the blackbird pilot trying to be honest and move back to where he should have been was much more honest than using that 20kms to his advantage.
my fellow pilots and friends in cry havoc are in this tourniment and i would hate to see POS get knocked out without a good fight. if something silly like this caused a good fight between us and them to not happen i would be quite sad tbh.
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Johnathan Roark
Caldari Borgholio's Collective Prime Orbital Systems
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Posted - 2009.01.26 09:12:00 -
[29]
Originally by: EvilSpork
Originally by: BravoFox
Originally by: CCP Claw I'd just like to reinforce the point, though, that the early firing was not the reason for the forfeit - they second violation (for movement) on top of that was the reason.
Was the Blackbird moving involved with the initial false start and then he was caught moving back to his start position where he SHOULD have been in the first place?
from what they said that was what happened. it looks like whoever was in charge(i dont want to point my finger at CCP Claw if i dont know it was him) just did not listen to what they had to say. if their blackbird was 20kms forward of the possible warp in point, that would be a bit of an issue, no?
this match in no way effects me, but i think there should be a rematch and so they can have an actual fight. what POS did could not have possibly given them an advantage, so it had to be an honest mistake. the countdowns should be labeled, and the blackbird pilot trying to be honest and move back to where he should have been was much more honest than using that 20kms to his advantage.
my fellow pilots and friends in cry havoc are in this tourniment and i would hate to see POS get knocked out without a good fight. if something silly like this caused a good fight between us and them to not happen i would be quite sad tbh.
I still dont see why having everyone warp out and back in wouldn't have been an option. yes, we could have picked different ranges just as they could have. To be honest, it would have been a bigger advantage to the opposing team as they would have a better idea of our target calling order. We would even take a rematch even if it meant a point deduction.
What lead to this was a series of mistakes on CCP's part and ours. I expect it to happen again unless local is eliminated from the equation. Its more likely to be a delayed reaction time because teams are trying to avoid CCP's disqualification stick. A few seconds late and that may be what cost someone a match. Two separate channels, one for each areana, are probably the best "fix" for this tourney.
POS-Tracker 2.1.0 Hosting |
EvilSpork
Invicta. Cry Havoc.
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Posted - 2009.01.26 09:28:00 -
[30]
im inclined to agree.
i have to say it is not ENTIRELY ccp's fault, but it is bad form by them to not listen or understand the situation from the POS point of view.
different channels for each fight would be a good idea.
and warping out and back in is what should have happened, so any movement after the misfire would be irrelevant. to make it fair both teams would have to re-warp to get all ships back to their starting position..
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