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I'm getting ticked off with lack of instuctions!

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3AKOHHO	Posted - 2009.01.27 23:54:00 - [1] Train the Archeology skills, bought Analyzer, went to ruins of a station in Forge and guess what - can't do that!!! Then run into this - Exploration So now I have to train more bozo skills, learn to use different types of scanners and hope I don't get podded in one of the low secs. Are there EVER going to be complete set of instructions for ANY of the crap CCP is putting in lately???
Helen Viper Squad	Posted - 2009.01.27 23:58:00 - [2] What like the instructions they have been putting out there for people to look at since the game was released....
3AKOHHO	Posted - 2009.01.28 00:05:00 - [3] So where exactly am I suppose to be - on the web looking for some illusive instructions or in the game actually playing? What happened to intuitive design CCP was so proud of? Any Analyzer or skills it needs comes with instructions WITHIN the game?
3AKOHHO	Posted - 2009.01.28 00:10:00 - [4] And try searching for "Archeology" on EVE-ONLINE.com and see for kind of crap comes up before anything remotely useful is found. Besides, where are these places that these instructions you speak reside at? Toilet paper?
Miranda Reactor	Posted - 2009.01.28 00:13:00 - [5] your better off playing something that come with direction tbh, how about a nice game of tic tac toe?
Mawusi	Posted - 2009.01.28 00:16:00 - [6] You mean like this section in the Player Guide ?? :- Quote: What Skills Do I Need for Exploration? Scanning utilizes a Scan Probe Launcher as well as Scan Probes that focus on a particular signature type (Gravimetric, Magnetometric, RADAR, LADAR). All of these require: Astrometrics I Science III Due to the amount of time needed to scan using the Scan Probe Launcher, the Signal Acquisition skill should be trained to Level 1 to prevent the probes from expiring in space; this would inhibit a successful scan. Additional skills to consider investing in: Astrometric Pinpointing Astrometric Triangulation Hacking (enables the use of Codebreaker modules to take full advantage of RADAR signatures) Salvaging (enables the use of Salvager modules to take advantage of Magnetometric signatures) Archaeology (enables the use of Analyzer modules to take advantage of Magnetometric signatures( Gas Cloud Harvesting (enables the use of Gas Cloud Harvester modules to take full advantage of LADAR signatures) Ive highlighted the relevant line, and the guide goes on to explain about different types of signatures. What else do you want ? :)
3AKOHHO	Posted - 2009.01.28 00:17:00 - [7] Originally by: Miranda Reactor ... how about a nice game of tic tac toe? Sound good. At least, that's a well designed game that doesn't make any attempts of ripping people off and forcing them to keep on paying by purposely messing with their expectations. A game is a game - not a lifestyle :)
3AKOHHO	Posted - 2009.01.28 00:22:00 - [8] Originally by: Mawusi Edited by: Mawusi on 28/01/2009 00:17:01 You mean like this section in the Player Guide ?? :- I have that link in the very first post. But I want that info in the game provided with the freaking equipment and skills. I don't like small print surprises.
Mawusi	Posted - 2009.01.28 00:23:00 - [9] Also, these forums are the biggest instruction manual you could ever want. Next time just ask about something you are unsure of instead of investing time training it, only to find out it doesnt do what you thought it did.
3AKOHHO	Posted - 2009.01.28 00:37:00 - [10] Originally by: Mawusi Also, these forums are the biggest instruction manual you could ever want. Next time just ask about something you are unsure of instead of investing time training it, only to find out it doesnt do what you thought it did. my experience with players help, is that here, just like in the game, shutting down a new-be a matter of honor for more experienced players. I got so much misleading info from in-game guys and got laughed at when followed it, that I stop beleaving any advice I get from anyone. Very interesting crowd is attracted to this game.
Mawusi	Posted - 2009.01.28 00:43:00 - [11] Guess you've been unlucky. Cant say I ever had any mis-information when I was starting out. I always used the Help chat channel in game and found out what I needed to. Or join a noob corp like Eve University....they'll be more than happy to show you the ropes...that's what they pride themselves on.
Trebor Notlimah Lone Star EVE Group Veni Vidi Vici	Posted - 2009.01.28 00:49:00 - [12] Posting in a fail thread.
Karrade Krise Galatic P0RN Starz	Posted - 2009.01.28 02:22:00 - [13] Jump off a bridge. (IG) You have your instructions...
Kessiaan Minmatar Army of One	Posted - 2009.01.28 02:39:00 - [14] Evelopedia Exploration Guide and if you're afraid of lowsec you'll never be successful there. Eve is about managing risk, not avoiding it.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2009.01.28 03:31:00 - [15] Originally by: 3AKOHHO Originally by: Mawusi Also, these forums are the biggest instruction manual you could ever want. Next time just ask about something you are unsure of instead of investing time training it, only to find out it doesnt do what you thought it did. my experience with players help, is that here, just like in the game, shutting down a new-be a matter of honor for more experienced players. I got so much misleading info from in-game guys and got laughed at when followed it, that I stop beleaving any advice I get from anyone. Very interesting crowd is attracted to this game. the trolls can smell that certain something in an individual, and well this thread smells. when you take a proper approach to posting a topic people are very much helpful. however, wah wah! fix it for me ccp, and well you see what has happened so far.
Kurull Skullsplitter Minmatar Citizens of E.A.R.T.H. E.A.R.T.H. Federation	Posted - 2009.01.28 03:44:00 - [16] the OP might need some cheese with his whine... but he does have a valid point when you set aside the whining. I have hopes that the new EVElopedia will grow to resolve some of these problems. I am happy to see that it is growing quickly. The exploration guide there looks pretty good.
3AKOHHO	Posted - 2009.01.28 05:00:00 - [17] Kessiaan and Mawusi, Thank you for the info. Obviously, what I value and what CCP has to offer are two different things. As for the rest of you, well, you guys deserve each other. My only regret is that you can't use live ammunition when you communicate :)
Darkeen Gallente	Posted - 2009.01.28 05:29:00 - [18] Quote: What Skills Do I Need for Exploration? Scanning utilizes a Scan Probe Launcher as well as Scan Probes that focus on a particular signature type (Gravimetric, Magnetometric, RADAR, LADAR). All of these require: Astrometrics I Science III Due to the amount of time needed to scan using the Scan Probe Launcher, the Signal Acquisition skill should be trained to Level 1 to prevent the probes from expiring in space; this would inhibit a successful scan. Additional skills to consider investing in: Astrometric Pinpointing Astrometric Triangulation Hacking (enables the use of Codebreaker modules to take full advantage of RADAR signatures) Salvaging (enables the use of Salvager modules to take advantage of Magnetometric signatures) Archaeology (enables the use of Analyzer modules to take advantage of Magnetometric signatures) Gas Cloud Harvesting (enables the use of Gas Cloud Harvester modules to take full advantage of LADAR signatures) I dont see what your so upset about... Astro Traingulation requries Astrometrics IV, so just get it to level 5 and be done with it. Then get everythijg else to Level 4 as a minimum. Then, if your read any posts about this sort of thing, you'll need recon or cov ops ships ot actuially get fast scan times, so you'll need to train for those. Then to fit the modules in you'll need good support skills. And whilst your sitting waiting for scans you'll want to mbe claoked so ensure you have Cloaking to 4 too. So basically, get everyhting to Level 4 as a minimum, then start using scanners. And you'll have to use it in every system in an entire region twice before you start complaining as everyone knows that you can hid a lot of nothing most of the time.... So why all the B*tching?
OMG ItsATrap	Posted - 2009.01.28 06:08:00 - [19] All the tutorials for the game you are looking for are here
Cess Poole Black Claw Exploratory	Posted - 2009.01.28 06:29:00 - [20] Perhaps ask in a more civil manner for more civil responses. As no one has broached the subject with you, Can I have your stuff?
Boomey Pootra	Posted - 2009.01.28 06:52:00 - [21] Originally by: 3AKOHHO I don't like small print surprises. Ctrl-Scroll up. Voila!
Esamir	Posted - 2009.01.28 08:30:00 - [22] This is by design - finding and figuring things out is part of the enjoyment for many of us, and if you're not into that, then you have possibly picked up the wrong game. You can use player guides, read forums and talk to players in-game and you'll find what you need but if you're looking for explicit instructions about absolutely everything from CCP, you will be disappointed. The reason for what you've experienced in-game is your attitude. You think the problem is in other people, but it isn't. You may not realise this, but you're rude, agressive and more than a little angry, which means that a lot of people would rather tease you and see your reaction, than help you. I help a lot of new players but if I met you I'd just block you. Others delight in goading people like you into a rage. Drop the infantile 'I want' attitude, and stop making angry posts and demands. Try being less of a **** and you may see a change in people's reactions to you.
Tippia Raddick Explorations BlackWater.	Posted - 2009.01.28 09:30:00 - [23] So, basically, you bought a lawnmower and are now upset that you need to have a lawn and grow some grass on it for your new toy to be of any use? ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Kuranta Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2009.01.28 09:50:00 - [24] EVE is ever changing. So, the forums (and hopefully with some time the wiki) are the best way to learn about stuff. CCP does not tell you everything on purpose. They want the players to find out themselfes (wormholes will be fun). Don't ***** around only because you're lazy. And seeing your attitude it's no wonder people won't help you.
Hairy Blutac Amarr A Quest Millitia	Posted - 2009.01.28 11:10:00 - [25] Originally by: Esamir This is by design - finding and figuring things out is part of the enjoyment for many of us, and if you're not into that, then you have possibly picked up the wrong game. You can use player guides, read forums and talk to players in-game and you'll find what you need but if you're looking for explicit instructions about absolutely everything from CCP, you will be disappointed. The reason for what you've experienced in-game is your attitude. You think the problem is in other people, but it isn't. You may not realise this, but you're rude, agressive and more than a little angry, which means that a lot of people would rather tease you and see your reaction, than help you. I help a lot of new players but if I met you I'd just block you. Others delight in goading people like you into a rage. Drop the infantile 'I want' attitude, and stop making angry posts and demands. Try being less of a **** and you may see a change in people's reactions to you. Well said.... why oh why can't we all just get along.
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N.	Posted - 2009.01.28 11:27:00 - [26] Originally by: Kuranta And seeing your attitude it's no wonder people won't help you. This tbh.
Echo Vector Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2009.01.28 12:28:00 - [27] This isn't "hold-your-hand" Hello Kitty Online. One of the most appealing things about this game is that it requires a certain level of critical thinking if you intend on being successful. Let me guess wildly here, just for a moment..........you got stuck trying to find a "Villard Wheel", didn't you? There are more than enough player-donated "walk-throughs" and "guides" and general "cheat sheets"..........but that also requires a certain level of intellectual acuity to find them on the Internets......... As for hoping to not get podded in lo-sec, WTF are you even playing the game for? Good grief, man. Your expectations are, in a word, unrealistic.
el caido School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2009.01.28 15:06:00 - [28] Originally by: Echo Vector Let me guess wildly here, just for a moment..........you got stuck trying to find a "Villard Wheel", didn't you? I lol'd ... but only because I hear that question a dozen times a day. To the OP: the first reality of EVE is that it has a learning curve that kills kittens ... daily. Some of us 'veterans' may be inconsiderate to your complaints, but that is merely because when many of us began, the game had less documentation and fansites than it does now. But, in reality, that doesn't matter. Other people in the game are your best resource. Make friends, read the forums if you dare, and don't be a kitten. Welcome to EVE.
Kery Nysell Caldari Nysell Incorporated	Posted - 2009.01.28 15:47:00 - [29] As others have said, the difficulty of finding information is by design ... There are a lot of good infos in this thread already, but it boils down to one thing : if you want real, useful tips, be nice when asking for them ! When I started playing, back in 2004, there was absolutely nothing on Teh Intartubes, you had to try it yourself or find a corp of "newbie friendly" people to teach you the ropes (BTW, Eve University is a great bunch of people, very helpful, they helped me start my career). But, the learning curve is this game is harsh ... look at this picture, it's pretty acurate : <~ sig starts here My Skills
Typecell	Posted - 2009.01.28 16:06:00 - [30] Well you have to remember that everyone that is doing what you are doing is drawing from the same pool of resources as you. What is the benefit to them of telling you how to do things? Even so, the explorer community is actually very willing to inform new players and there is comparatively a large amount of information (in comparison to other ways of making isk) relating to exploration all over the web. You're really gonna have to do some of your own research as some things you will find almost no research done for you: trade routes, production, POS operation for example will require that you work on your own. Honestly though, it's way more rewarding to work on it yourself and just ask the occasional question than having it done for you.
Typecell	Posted - 2009.01.28 16:07:00 - [31] also, exploration is extremely boring
nether void Caldari Shrapnel Industries	Posted - 2009.01.28 16:42:00 - [32] Waah waah the game doesn't play for me? That's what I got out of this thread.
3AKOHHO	Posted - 2009.01.28 18:23:00 - [33] WOW, so much hostility! Guys, it's a game, nothing more. And I know that it may come as a shock to some of you, but IT'S NOT REAL! Because, when internet connection is down, you are no longer a mega pirate with few thousand goons at your disposal - you are your own boring and depressed self. EVE is a paid-for man-made tool. And as such, it should come with decent set of instructions. Mean while, EVE is like a shiny new toaster, with some interesting undocumented features. It gives you an electric shock every time you try to use it. CCP's suggestion - get rubber gloves. It burns toast - learn the timing and yank it out before it turn to piece of chalk coal. There are instructions for that somewhere, not on the toaster, not in the box, but on the net, if you look hard enough. Plus there are community of veterans, people who learned the hard way and think that if they were dumb enough to go through all of that then everyone should. The game is geared toward long-time players, someone with at least year of playing time. They are proven paying customers, they proved their loyalty or have no life (Thulsa Doom being a perfect example) But me, I'm not hooked yet and with everyday I'm loosing my interest. Not a big deal globally speaking, but sacrificing NOOBs for veterans (or vice verso) speaks of lack of balance. I play EVE not because I think it's the best, but due to lack of options. CCP isn't the best, they are the only ones on the market.
Tippia Raddick Explorations BlackWater.	Posted - 2009.01.28 18:30:00 - [34] Originally by: 3AKOHHO WOW, so much hostility! You started it, so what do you expect?
Kery Nysell Caldari Nysell Incorporated	Posted - 2009.01.28 18:37:00 - [35] I find it highly ironic that the OP is complaining about hostility while at the same time flinging insults at those willing to help him ... Depressed selves, no-life addicts, those words are a sure way to NEVER find someone willing to answer your questions. Personnaly, I was thinking about contacting you and sharing my notes with you, but now ... you can rot in your ignorance.
3AKOHHO	Posted - 2009.01.28 18:43:00 - [36] Edited by: 3AKOHHO on 28/01/2009 18:50:55 Originally by: Kery Nysell Personnaly, I was thinking about contacting you and sharing my notes with you, but now ... you can rot in your ignorance. Isn't "Personally" spelled with 2 Ls? Talk about ignorance :) But thanks for the thought. Glad to help you make up your mind.
Pantheon Lea Farmer Boyz	Posted - 2009.01.28 18:47:00 - [37] Originally by: 3AKOHHO WOW, so much hostility! You are right, the forums is often very hostile, so is the game. The key is not to trust anyone on any matter. My advise to you is to find a corporation, or form a corporation, get to know a small group of people, and let them answer all your questions, they will also be able to help you on matters that you do not have the skills for right now. To me, this is what this game i all about. Back in when EVE was first released there was a lot of helpfull people everywhere, you could trust most people you met, not anyone, but most of them. Today there is not much risk involved, as you know in advance that you can't trust anyone. There is also a large ammount og players who simply play to make other peoples game a pain, they are allowed to, but the large numbers of them, makes everything kinda grey and booring to interact with them. Get a small number of freinds, and enjoy EVE with them, there is no way to play EVE with random people you meet arround in the game, a shame yes, but it's true...
3AKOHHO	Posted - 2009.01.28 19:08:00 - [38] Originally by: Pantheon Lea There is also a large ammount og players who simply play to make other peoples game a pain... Thanks you for that. This is my point exactly. What's the point of bringing down Titan for the sake of bringing it down. God knows how many morons united by a need of destroying other people's work and time. And thanks to CCP's approval, they think they own EVE. And everyone else is just target practice.
Tippia Raddick Explorations BlackWater.	Posted - 2009.01.28 19:13:00 - [39] Originally by: 3AKOHHO What's the point of bringing down Titan for the sake of bringing it down. Why climb a mountain? Maybe you just don't understand ≡v≡…
Matroshka Young Enterprise Free Trade Zone.	Posted - 2009.01.28 19:22:00 - [40] Edited by: Matroshka on 28/01/2009 19:22:29 Part of the fun in EVE is that there isn't much instruction. Like a figuring out how to complete a puzzle. How much fun would playing in a sandbox be if you had instructions?
3AKOHHO	Posted - 2009.01.28 19:27:00 - [41] Originally by: Tippia Why climb a mountain? Maybe you just don't understand ≡v≡à I understand why climb a mountain. I understand why cross an ocean in a dinky little boat. I even understand why go against a bear one-on-one with nothing but a knife. What I don't understand is why burn down Rome or library of Alexandria, why carve your initials on a five thousand year old structure. I may not understand EVE, but respect, culture and civilized behavior I understand well.
Pwett Minmatar QUANT Corp. QUANT Hegemony	Posted - 2009.01.28 19:48:00 - [42] Let me put it this way. Exploration is a source of income - it is a resource that is worth protecting. Income Streams in EVE are the foundation and basis of all PVP All the veteran explorers learned everything through trial and error - why should they give you a boost because you're too lazy to figure it out yourself. When Exploration was introduced, we had NOTHING. They gave us probes, a launcher, and said - there's stuff out there; it might not work, it will be buggy as hell, but go ahead and look for it; we dare you.
el caido School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2009.01.28 19:48:00 - [43] Well, this thread derailed quickly. 3AKOHHO, I'll be happy to offer advice and answer any questions you have (to the best of my ability). Just send me an EVEmail or convo me if you see me online.
Tippia Raddick Explorations BlackWater.	Posted - 2009.01.28 19:56:00 - [44] Originally by: 3AKOHHO I may not understand EVE, but respect, culture and civilized behavior I understand well. Well then… Welcome to ≡v≡ — a 100% PvP game where none of those matter beyond what they provide in the way of beating everyone else.
nether void Caldari Shrapnel Industries	Posted - 2009.01.28 20:04:00 - [45] Originally by: 3AKOHHO Edited by: 3AKOHHO on 28/01/2009 18:50:55 Originally by: Kery Nysell Personnaly, I was thinking about contacting you and sharing my notes with you, but now ... you can rot in your ignorance. Isn't "Personally" spelled with 2 Ls? Talk about ignorance :) But thanks for the thought. Glad to help you make up your mind. Your punctuation could use some work. Never try and pick a grammar or spelling fight, because nobody's perfect.
Alana Mei	Posted - 2009.01.28 20:12:00 - [46] If you get podded in lowsec and you aren't lagging you are doing something wrong..theres no excuse other than lag for ever losing a pod outside of 0.0.
Stu Pendisdick Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2009.01.28 20:17:00 - [47] Originally by: 3AKOHHO ..........respect, culture and civilized behavior ........... You are correct. You DON'T understand EvE. You want Barney's Purple Playground. There is no "respect, culture and/or civilized behaviour" to be found here, and most of the populace prefers it that way. Your stuff, I can haz?
3AKOHHO	Posted - 2009.01.28 20:26:00 - [48] Originally by: Tippia Welcome to ≡v≡ ù a 100% PvP game where none of those matter beyond what they provide in the way of beating everyone else. Pretty much so. Then why pretend to be something else? "Install, subscribe and get your a$$ shot by those who've been here longer simply because they can". You want to balance things, make PvP amongs equals and let's see how that works out. Climbing a mountain is a challenge to something greater than yourself. Shooting a noob, well... figure it out. el caido, Thanks for your offer. As for the thread's topic, documentation must be in order, otherwise it all turns into one major clusterf... (which it already is). I want to know what I'm getting into, while so far I agreed to one thing yet presented something else. And I don't mind poking around, but everything must have it's limits. As for the sandbox with instructions, it's more like playing with fire because damage is much greater than just sand in your eyes. Demoralization seems to be a variable CCP didn't take into account.
Tippia Raddick Explorations BlackWater.	Posted - 2009.01.28 20:31:00 - [49] Originally by: 3AKOHHO You want to balance things, make PvP amongs equals and let's see how that works out. EVE is better balanced in this regard than pretty much every other game out there. You have the same chance and opportunity as everyone else to make your mark. Just go do it. Quote: documentation must be in order, otherwise it all turns into one major clusterf... (which it already is) The documentation is there. The reason you got burned was because you didn't read it before charging ahead. Quote: Demoralization seems to be a variable CCP didn't take into account. Except, of course, that the retention numbers for EVE players beyond their newbie days are very very high, and that they're currently changing the new-player experience.
3AKOHHO	Posted - 2009.01.28 20:43:00 - [50] Originally by: Tippia ... because you didn't read it before charging ahead. Didn't find it. Because tools can be obtained easily - just pay; instructions to them seem to require different client all together - IE, Firefox or whatever suits you better. "Buy a car" sounds easy enough. But can you drive it. NO! You need license, license plates, insurance, fuel, ets. How do I know all this. COMMON KNOWLEDGE. "Buy analyzer" sound easy enough. But can I use it. NO! Why??? No info IN THE GAME!!!
Tippia Raddick Explorations BlackWater.	Posted - 2009.01.28 20:47:00 - [51] Originally by: 3AKOHHO "Buy analyzer" sound easy enough. But can I use it. NO! Why??? No info IN THE GAME!!! Then maybe you shouldn't have bought it until you figured out what it was for. Have you plunked down the cash for a siege module yet?
Matroshka Young Enterprise Free Trade Zone.	Posted - 2009.01.28 20:49:00 - [52] Originally by: 3AKOHHO "Buy analyzer" sound easy enough. But can I use it. NO! Why??? No info IN THE GAME!!! Prerequisites tab in the item info menu.
Pwett Minmatar QUANT Corp. QUANT Hegemony	Posted - 2009.01.28 20:50:00 - [53] You know, after 3.5 years I can go buy myself a 10k isk small blaster cannon. Doesn't mean I can use it either :)
nether void Caldari Shrapnel Industries	Posted - 2009.01.28 20:54:00 - [54] Originally by: 3AKOHHO Demoralization seems to be a variable CCP didn't take into account. Demoralization because you can't figure out the game on your own? Who's fault is that? Some things must be researched by YOU. Nobody is here to hold your hand. In EVE, YOU are responsible for figuring out how stuff works. If you're my enemy by the very nature of the game, why should I help you? That makes you harder to kill. That's how competitive games work, man. You don't see football coaches swapping plays.
3AKOHHO	Posted - 2009.01.28 21:04:00 - [55] Originally by: Tippia Have you plunked down the cash for a siege module yet? No, prerequisite has too many reds in it. However, my analyzer tab is all green. Does it help? No, because for it to be useful I had to buy more equipment, train more skill that ARE NOT LISTED in the analyzer tab. There are plenty of ruins in EVE high sectors, but none of them allow you to use analyzer on them. Then why write "ANALYZER to EXPLORE RUINS"? When the obvious doesn't work, then I go looking for info, trying to understand what I did wrong. But I guess my fault is that I'm too naive to believe what's written.
Tippia Raddick Explorations BlackWater.	Posted - 2009.01.28 21:08:00 - [56] Originally by: 3AKOHHO Originally by: Tippia Have you plunked down the cash for a siege module yet? No, prerequisite has too many reds in it. Wrong answer. You still haven't learned, apparently. The correct answer is either "I don't know what it does" or "I don't have what's required to used it" (which is a completely separate thing from the skill prerequisites).
3AKOHHO	Posted - 2009.01.28 21:18:00 - [57] Edited by: 3AKOHHO on 28/01/2009 21:19:19 Originally by: Tippia The correct answer is either "I don't know what it does" or "I don't have what's required to used it" (which is a completely separate thing from the skill prerequisites). Correct reply, wrong response. Whatever it need to WORK (not just sit in a slot) SHOULD be listed or at least linked in description. Let's say you want to buy a cruiser. According to you logic, description for it should include cruiser skill, but shouldn't have any mention of Spaceship Command. That part you should figure out for yourself. And you should be able to train cruiser skill, but when it came to getting into a ship, just get an error message. Inconsistency in policies.
Tippia Raddick Explorations BlackWater.	Posted - 2009.01.28 21:32:00 - [58] Originally by: 3AKOHHO Let's say you want to buy a cruiser. According to you logic, description for it should include cruiser skill, but shouldn't have any mention of Spaceship Command. That part you should figure out for yourself. And you should be able to train cruiser skill, but when it came to getting into a ship, just get an error message. No. According to my logic, Spaceship Command would be listed since it's a prerequisite. However, medium guns and missiles and their respective upgrades, tanking mods, drones, propulsion mods, ewar mods, and logistics modules would not be listed, nor would the cap skills, the shield and armour skills, or the fitting and upgrade skills required to actually make any use of it. Your problem is that you assume that "prerequisite" leads directly to "use". That is not the case for anything in the game. The prerequisites only tell you what is required to be able to use a piece of equipment in its right context. How to actually use it, and what the context for that use is, is a completely different matter. It is also almost univerally open to user cleverness, and in constant flux, so documenting it is pointless.
Gartel Reiman Civis Romanus Sum	Posted - 2009.01.28 21:33:00 - [59] Originally by: 3AKOHHO As for the thread's topic, documentation must be in order, otherwise it all turns into one major clusterf... (which it already is). I want to know what I'm getting into, while so far I agreed to one thing yet presented something else. And I don't mind poking around, but everything must have it's limits. Out of interest, how do you think every single other person in the game got by? You probably have a point that things could be improved, but coming here and posting that things must be fixed as they are broken now and it's not your fault - is just not going to get you much sympathy when you address it to an audience who have all been faced with the same situation and overcame it.
Des Jardin Ad Astra Vexillum Arcane Alliance	Posted - 2009.01.28 22:17:00 - [60] 3AKOHHO, By now you have recognized that EVE is a complicated game. Part of that complication is because CCP has decided that figuring out what something does or how it works enhances the game experience for many pilots. For others, it is completely frustrating. Fortunately, there are many generous pilots who devote significant time to explaining the many nuances of EVE to both newcomer and veteran alike. I suggest that you first decide what general area interests you -- PvP, PvE, mining, salvaging, exploration. Then search the multiple threads and guides here on the EVE Forums that discuss those areas. Learn from them. Sure, you will make mistakes ... everyone has items that they can't figure out why they bought them or train skills that are useless. It is all part of the EVE experience. But EVE is not for everyone. I have friends who can't stand the EVE format. So be it. That just means that the game is not for them. The choice in EVE is always yours. Des Jardin
Pwett Minmatar QUANT Corp. QUANT Hegemony	Posted - 2009.01.28 22:38:00 - [61] Originally by: 3AKOHHO Correct reply, wrong response. Whatever it need to WORK (not just sit in a slot) SHOULD be listed or at least linked in description. Let's say you want to buy a cruiser. According to you logic, description for it should include cruiser skill, but shouldn't have any mention of Spaceship Command. That part you should figure out for yourself. And you should be able to train cruiser skill, but when it came to getting into a ship, just get an error message. Inconsistency in policies. No, this boils more down to the following example. I spend a couple weeks training skiffs and modulated deep core miners with mercoxit crystals. Then I go out to my closest veldspar 'roid, start mining, and complain that no mercoxit comes out. _______________ <Q> QUANT Hegemony Item Database
3AKOHHO	Posted - 2009.01.28 22:39:00 - [62] Edited by: 3AKOHHO on 28/01/2009 22:58:16 Edited by: 3AKOHHO on 28/01/2009 22:58:02 Originally by: Des Jardin The choice in EVE is always yours. No it isn't. CCP openly is pushing co-op play, which I'm not a fan of. I don't know, maybe with more skills learned new doors will open for me. But to get me there, build up my interest is CCP's job. And they are failing. I'm not mesmerized by the possibilities, I'm ticked off by the current events. The fact that i think so, isn't CCP problem. What is their problem is that I'm not the only one. One thing is figuring out, another is deliberately misleading. I don't mind doing the work, just like to be told upfront about it.
UberDeathDealer	Posted - 2009.01.28 22:52:00 - [63] EvE is not for everyone... can I have your stuffs....?
3AKOHHO	Posted - 2009.01.28 22:56:00 - [64] Originally by: UberDeathDealer EvE is not for everyone... can I have your stuffs....? :) :) :) Sure, it in a wreck on the way to Jove space :))
Aeryl Firebrand	Posted - 2009.01.28 23:30:00 - [65] Edited by: Aeryl Firebrand on 28/01/2009 23:30:49 Originally by: 3AKOHHO No it isn't. CCP openly is pushing co-op play, which I'm not a fan of. You do understand what massively multiplayer means right? Quote: I don't know, maybe with more skills learned new doors will open for me. But to get me there, build up my interest is CCP's job. And they are failing. I'm not mesmerized by the possibilities, I'm ticked off by the current events. The fact that i think so, isn't CCP problem. What is their problem is that I'm not the only one. One thing is figuring out, another is deliberately misleading. I don't mind doing the work, just like to be told upfront about it. I wasn't aware that it should be CCP's goal to make sure every single person on Earth loves EVE. Yes, there are going to be people who don't like it but there are plenty who do. And EVE has enjoyed steady growth since release with it's biggest growth coming in the 2nd half of its life. You sit here and keep giving out reasons why you don't like it but you're still here. Although I'm unsure of why I even bothered to post since it's pretty obvious that, after making a half dozen typos of your own and calling someone else ignorant for making one, you're just a self-important douche.
3AKOHHO	Posted - 2009.01.29 05:03:00 - [66] Edited by: 3AKOHHO on 29/01/2009 06:47:32 Edited by: 3AKOHHO on 29/01/2009 05:13:48 Originally by: Aeryl Firebrand ...you're just a self-important douche. Well, it takes one to know one. And could someone, please, open another thread to discuss all the flaws of character, so that everyone could express their opinions about me there.
Ralitge boyter Minmatar	Posted - 2009.01.29 09:26:00 - [67] The in game help is great and yes there is of course some bs going around there but name any game where that doesn't happen... As for the online resources they are great it is all there and more. Most likely you will find more and better descriptions of the modules and skill on the EVE website then you will find of any other games website. As for lack of instructions... it is a free world you are there to fend for your self you will have to figure things out your self or make friends that can help you with things. Some things are much harder then others, and that usually means you will need quite a bit of skills to be able to even atempt doing them. If you are not able to work things out your self and you don't like the resources and information being offerd maybe EVE is not the game for you? I am not telling you to leave I am saying if it is all a little to much for you and you are not having fun playing the game then just remember you are only here because you choose te be here, not because you have to be here. ------------------------------------------- Should you disagree with me, well I guess that is because I disagree with you. If you have a problem with that please feel free not to tell me.
Hairy Blutac Amarr A Quest Millitia	Posted - 2009.01.29 10:55:00 - [68] At the end of the day.... it gets dark... no, not that... Try again, at the end of the day, if you do not understand something, or you are not sure about something or just need a little guidance and find you need to ask on the forums, try asking in a manner that will encourage help as opposed to having to wear a flame proof suite and toasting your marshmallows on the flame fest that ensues. Kinda like this guy >- This -< I hope you find the answers you are looking for and, I hope you learn to like ≡v≡ -= If it ain't broke... Don't fix it! =-
Mra Rednu Amarr FiFi LaFey Recruitment Services LTD	Posted - 2009.01.29 11:47:00 - [69] Originally by: 3AKOHHO Edited by: 3AKOHHO on 29/01/2009 06:47:32 Edited by: 3AKOHHO on 29/01/2009 05:13:48 Originally by: Aeryl Firebrand ...you're just a self-important douche. Well, it takes one to know one. And could someone, please, open another thread to discuss all the flaws of character, so that everyone could express their opinions about me there. Well as it took you three attempts to post that lame reply, perhaps eve does need instructions.
Kery Nysell Caldari Nysell Incorporated	Posted - 2009.01.29 15:03:00 - [70] Originally by: 3AKOHHO Edited by: 3AKOHHO on 28/01/2009 18:50:55 Originally by: Kery Nysell Personnaly, I was thinking about contacting you and sharing my notes with you, but now ... you can rot in your ignorance. Isn't "Personally" spelled with 2 Ls? Talk about ignorance :) But thanks for the thought. Glad to help you make up your mind. Thank you for proving my point about your rudenes, I'm Belgian, english is actually my third language after french and dutch ... and because I make a typo on a forum without a spellchecker, I'm ignorant ? Manners will get you anywhere ... bad manners will get you in trouble.
Pwett Minmatar QUANT Corp. QUANT Hegemony	Posted - 2009.01.29 15:22:00 - [71] Originally by: Kery Nysell I'm Belgian My condolences. _______________ <Q> QUANT Hegemony Item Database
3AKOHHO	Posted - 2009.01.29 18:39:00 - [72] Edited by: 3AKOHHO on 29/01/2009 18:39:16 Description for broken down stations in Isanamo, Lonetrek, Caldari Space: "Ruins" Description for Analyzer: "A archeology system used to analyse and search ancient ruins." (Yes, guys, in the game analyZe is spelled with an "S") Now, one of the two things is missing: 1) Station should have extended description like "Ruins - not analyzable" (there are asteroids described like that) or "Recent ruins"; or 2) An analyzer should have a small disclaimer "A archeology system used to analyZe and search ancient ruins, only found by deadspace signature scanning." And that's it. No more misdirection.
Pwett Minmatar QUANT Corp. QUANT Hegemony	Posted - 2009.01.29 18:56:00 - [73] Originally by: 3AKOHHO Description for broken down stations in Isanamo, Lonetrek, Caldari Space: "Ruins" Description for Analyzer: "A archeology system used to analyse and search ancient ruins." ancient ruins _______________ <Q> QUANT Hegemony Item Database
nether void Caldari Shrapnel Industries	Posted - 2009.01.29 19:03:00 - [74] I've got it! 3AKOHHO your solution lies in creating a repository of information on how everything works in the game. Then other people like you could go there, and get all the info they need. Hopefully there's a few people that don't mind doing all the work for those too lazy to figure stuff out on their own. By the way, I trained pyroxeres refining to 2 when I was a noob. What a waste of time. We all waste time as noobs while we figure out the system. Like someone else said, it's probably the biggest reason EVE actually gets better over time. It's so complex you can't just 'beat the game' in a few months, unlike games like WoW. --------------------
3AKOHHO	Posted - 2009.01.29 19:05:00 - [75] Originally by: Pwett ancient ruins Hens the term "RECENT ruins", since there is more than one type.null
Pwett Minmatar QUANT Corp. QUANT Hegemony	Posted - 2009.01.29 19:10:00 - [76] Edited by: Pwett on 29/01/2009 19:10:28 Originally by: 3AKOHHO Originally by: Pwett ancient ruins Hens the term "RECENT ruins", since there is more than one type.null Why would they need to specify when all the important people remember when they blew up? _______________ <Q> QUANT Hegemony Item Database
Aioa Planetary Assault Systems	Posted - 2009.01.29 19:18:00 - [77] Originally by: 3AKOHHO Yes, guys, in the game analyZe is spelled with an "S" That's because the game is in English. --
Tippia Raddick Explorations BlackWater.	Posted - 2009.01.29 19:22:00 - [78] Originally by: 3AKOHHO Description for Analyzer: "A archeology system used to analyse and search ancient ruins." (Yes, guys, in the game analyZe is spelled with an "S") You do know that “analyse” is spelt with an ‘s’, right? Quote: And that's it. No more misdirection. There was no misdirection to begin with — only your unwillingness to read up on how archµology works in this game. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
3AKOHHO	Posted - 2009.01.29 20:29:00 - [79] Originally by: Tippia You do know that ôanalyseö is spelt with an æsÆ, right? So where exactly did CCP screw up - on their site (see spell checker) or the game? one of them has got to be wrong. And you do know that there is no such word "to analyse" in the English that I know? There is "analySt" who uses "analyZer" to "analyZe" and present his "analySis".
Pwett Minmatar QUANT Corp. QUANT Hegemony	Posted - 2009.01.29 20:30:00 - [80] Analyze has a 'zed' in American English and an 's' in British. Why don't we all argue about color / colour next? _______________ <Q> QUANT Hegemony Item Database
Tippia Raddick Explorations BlackWater.	Posted - 2009.01.29 20:36:00 - [81] Originally by: 3AKOHHO one of them has got to be wrong Incorrect. Quote: And you do know that there is no such word "to analyse" in the English that I know? I know that you don't know this, yes. It doesn't make what you know correct. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Bootius McGee	Posted - 2009.01.29 20:38:00 - [82] You tards are getting SO trolled by this arseclown.
3AKOHHO	Posted - 2009.01.29 20:53:00 - [83] Originally by: Pwett Analyze has a 'zed' in American English and an 's' in British. Kinda my point - inconsistency. Site designed in one version of English, game in another. Do people inside of CCP even talk to each other? Originally by: Tippia Incorrect. Quote: I owe you an apology, since I forgot about different spelling in different countries. Doesn't make me wrong, but does raise an interesting point.
Janus Ovellian Minmatar Calpolli Namtz' aar K'in	Posted - 2009.01.29 21:10:00 - [84] Originally by: Pwett Why don't we all argue about color / colour next? Oooh, I know this one. Ahem. You're not British unless you know where to put the invisible 'p'.
3AKOHHO	Posted - 2009.01.29 22:46:00 - [85] Originally by: Janus Ovellian Ahem. You're not British unless you know where to put the invisible 'p'. Ahh, true English pronunciation as spoken only at Oxford, Cambridge and some Alabama trailer parks Me English-third-languish (or forth), I know
lucifers widow	Posted - 2009.01.30 10:47:00 - [86] Originally by: 3AKOHHO Originally by: Janus Ovellian Ahem. You're not British unless you know where to put the invisible 'p'. Ahh, true English pronunciation as spoken only at Oxford, Cambridge and some Alabama trailer parks Me English-third-languish (or forth), I know Stop posting now please you lost this thread within 2 replies so give it up and start another thread if you in any doubt that you a moron (in game ofc) and perhaps we could have a best out of 3 competition.

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