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Kaileen Starsong
Amarr Veto. Veto Corp
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Posted - 2009.01.28 19:28:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Embarcadero Assault frigates killing vagabonds and zealots, chewing through ceptors are ofc overestimated. Right
This tells more about those HACs' pilots, if anything.
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Endless Subversion
The Accursed
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Posted - 2009.01.28 19:30:00 -
[32]
Edited by: Endless Subversion on 28/01/2009 19:30:57
Originally by: Embarcadero
Originally by: Endless Subversion Omen / Arbitrator
I can't remember how many times I've seen these ships mentioned as viable cruisers.
The vexor, thorax, rupture and blackbird are pretty much the only t1 cruisers worth anything with a nod towards caracals in an anti-frig role.
FYI Arbitrator with TD's will halt 1-2 sniper BS's EASILY.
Try and pretend you've played eve before. Try and outline a situation where you're facing hostile sniper BS and it's a good idea to have brought an arbitrator.
The lock range on that arbitrator + TD range means it really isn't going to be TDing snipers from range. So now you're up close to the hostiles TDing their sniper BS's. Ah... what?
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Foulque
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Posted - 2009.01.28 19:31:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Gypsio III
Originally by: DubanFP Drake: A lot of people fly it for the OMG super-tank it can fit. That's good but it suffers from so many drawbacks as a result in the end there's much better choices. It can't fit the standard MWD/scram/web combo without completely screwing over the tank and even fitting one scram puts you at a disadvantage even if its slightly reasonable.
When commenting on ships, it helps to not lose your entire credibility and make yourself look completely clueless with your very first comment.
^ This ________
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DubanFP
Caldari Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2009.01.28 19:34:00 -
[34]
Edited by: DubanFP on 28/01/2009 19:37:15
Originally by: Absolom Hues Unless you are talking about faction fit... show me a Harbi or Cane fit that can break any Drake tank.
The last time I went around championing a ship with details the Rapier/Huginn went from about 10 active users to a premier PVP ship of common use even after being nerfed. Still, fit properly a RF phased plasma Cane "cost 50 mil after insurance" can deal 750+ thermal DPS which is pretty much the drake's Achilles heel. Just overload to 850+ when you reach that critical 33% and instant dead drake.
My fitting has about 41k EHP and all the numbers is with my current skillset as opposed the default level V. I have yet to meet a drake that could tank it, even the no-tackle variety cries under it. Yes I always keep RF Phased plasma M in my hanger so unless the drake is specifically fit against me it is dead. Oh, and with Hail M it does 860 DPS for armor tanks. No drake can match that.
P.S. As for the AF comments about agillity. If the BC knows proper counter-agillity maneuvers transversal can be minimized to nearly zero. _______________
This is EVE. Here you have the right to settle any disagreements with lethal force. |
Endless Subversion
The Accursed
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Posted - 2009.01.28 19:35:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Embarcadero
Assault frigates killing vagabonds and zealots, chewing through ceptors are ofc overestimated. Right
Just stop, seriously. You might have been flying an AF when your gang blobbed a perma jammed hac to death, but that is not an indicator of how pwn sauce your AF is.
AFs aren't very good vs hacs. The few hacs that solo eat AFs alive and when they're ganged your AF is going to drop as soon as they finish off the players who brought worthwhile ships to the fight.
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Embarcadero
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Posted - 2009.01.28 19:36:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Endless Subversion
Try and pretend you've played eve before. Try and outline a situation where you're facing hostile sniper BS and it's a good idea to have brought an arbitrator.
The lock range on that arbitrator + TD range means it really isn't going to be TDing snipers from range. So now you're up close to the hostiles TDing their sniper BS's. Ah... what?
You obviously never participated system defenses when gate is bubbled and enemy fleet is jumping in... Go get some real experience next time before you post anything so ignorant...
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Embarcadero
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Posted - 2009.01.28 19:38:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Endless Subversion
Assault frigates killing vagabonds and zealots, chewing through ceptors are ofc overestimated. Right
Just stop, seriously. You might have been flying an AF when your gang blobbed a perma jammed hac to death, but that is not an indicator of how pwn sauce your AF is.
AFs aren't very good vs hacs. The few hacs that solo eat AFs alive and when they're ganged your AF is going to drop as soon as they finish off the players who brought worthwhile ships to the fight.
Oh yeah another pile of ignorance. Tell me more what exactly vagabond pilot can do to me if I have him scrambled and webbed and orbiting him at 500 m and he has no neutralizer fitted (which happens a lot). Zealot is even easier pray.
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DubanFP
Caldari Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2009.01.28 19:39:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Embarcadero
Oh yeah another pile of ignorance. Tell me more what exactly vagabond pilot can do to me if I have him scrambled and webbed and orbiting him at 500 m and he has no neutralizer fitted (which happens a lot). Zealot is even easier pray.
Besides not get scrambled and webbed in the first place? _______________
This is EVE. Here you have the right to settle any disagreements with lethal force. |
Vrabac
Zawa's Fan Club
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Posted - 2009.01.28 19:40:00 -
[39]
Originally by: DubanFP Drake: A lot of people fly it for the OMG super-tank it can fit. That's good but it suffers from so many drawbacks as a result in the end there's much better choices. It can't fit the standard MWD/scram/web combo without completely screwing over the tank and even fitting one scram puts you at a disadvantage even if its slightly reasonable.
Drake is the most powerful BC when looked at as single ship. It CAN fit mwd, web and scram, have better tank than any other gank BC and do very nice dps with hams and 3 bcus or alternatively do less dps but at good range with heavies, which is I guess more needed in 0.0 environments. It is the result of cookie cutter mentality that only knows how to look on forums for fits that everyone (not any more tbh, but up until very recently) didnt know how to fit anything but full rack of SPRs and 6 slot tank with heavies in high slots, creating one of the most useless yet for some reason popular ship fits I ever came upon.
In my eyes most overestimated ship is Astarte. Even before the web nerf it was utter crap among command ships, especially in it's typical dual repping bufferless edition that all the cool kids use. Even in very small gangs when astarte becomes primary you better start locking something else soon because it will go pop very fast.
Other than that, Nighthawk. While many people who know their thing are well aware of it's deficiencies and there are many topics springing up about them, it still seems to give countless caldari high sec bears the feeling of invincibility. They think it can tank or something. lol. Very similar issue to passive drake actually, with the added problem of very limited other options since with mwd/web/scram/haml sort of setup drake is actually better.
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Embarcadero
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Posted - 2009.01.28 19:41:00 -
[40]
Originally by: DubanFP
Originally by: Embarcadero
Oh yeah another pile of ignorance. Tell me more what exactly vagabond pilot can do to me if I have him scrambled and webbed and orbiting him at 500 m and he has no neutralizer fitted (which happens a lot). Zealot is even easier pray.
Besides not get scrambled and webbed in the first place?
MWD away, overload MWD, overload web and scram, hit approach and he will be caught because of his mwd interia. Profit
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Mistress Evita
Caldari Booze and Hookers
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Posted - 2009.01.28 19:42:00 -
[41]
I'm not a PvPer but I can place this on a Drake. Is this any good?
[Drake] Reactor Control Unit II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Internal Force Field Array I (CPU purposes)
Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Warp Disruptor II 10MN Microwarpdrive II
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missiles Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missiles Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missiles Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missiles Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missiles Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missiles Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missiles
Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Warrior II (5) for anti-drone defense
about 82000 Effective HP (74%EM, 77% THERM, 79% KIN, 83% EXP) shield defense efficiency of 147 DPS of 443 with the missiles and 68 for the Drones
It will run out of cap in about 3 minutes with everything running.
Is that good for a Drake if you put assault missiles on it? I'm just a mission runner and just curious. I have always been told that Drakes are no good at PvP
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Endless Subversion
The Accursed
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Posted - 2009.01.28 19:43:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Endless Subversion on 28/01/2009 19:45:43
Quote:
You obviously never participated system defenses when gate is bubbled and enemy fleet is jumping in... Go get some real experience next time before you post anything so ignorant...
So your argument is that Arbitrators aren't overestimated because when you've bubbled a gate and the hostile snipers are burning out of the bubble, you can TD 2-3 of them from close range.
Ignoring the fact that you're still better off doing something else since you're not helping, the BB is BETTER at the role you just oulined for the arbitrator. 1 unbonused TD is just fine for what you've mentioned and the BB has 2 more mids to stick TDs in.
Hell, if you're just going to define a role as "Applies TDs to snipers in close range while they mwd out of a bubble" You're probably best off using a scorpion with it's 8 mids or if you insist on a cruiser, a BB or falcon/rook for the extra mids. Arbitrator definetly isn't good there.
As for your vaga stuff... The good players ARE fitting a neut in that high AND the vagas have no need to get that close to you. AND the vaga gets 5 light drones, which with ecm drones means he is basically gaurenteed between his neut and his drones to be able to pulse his mwd, flat line the transversal and toast you.
Who the **** flies a solo zealot in qr? Seriously!
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Embarcadero
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Posted - 2009.01.28 19:55:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Endless Subversion
So your argument is that Arbitrators aren't overestimated because when you've bubbled a gate and the hostile snipers are burning out of the bubble, you can TD 2-3 of them from close range.
Ignoring the fact that you're still better off doing something else since you're not helping, the BB is BETTER at the role you just oulined for the arbitrator. 1 unbonused TD is just fine for what you've mentioned and the BB has 2 more mids to stick TDs in.
Hell, if you're just going to define a role as "Applies TDs to snipers in close range while they mwd out of a bubble" You're probably best off using a scorpion with it's 8 mids or if you insist on a cruiser, a BB or falcon/rook for the extra mids. Arbitrator definetly isn't good there.
As for your vaga stuff... The good players ARE fitting a neut in that high AND the vagas have no need to get that close to you. AND the vaga gets 5 light drones, which with ecm drones means he is basically gaurenteed between his neut and his drones to be able to pulse his mwd, flat line the transversal and toast you.
Who the **** flies a solo zealot in qr? Seriously!
Sorry I do not argue with ignorant noobs. Get some experience outside of eft then we will talk.
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Endless Subversion
The Accursed
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Posted - 2009.01.28 20:10:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Embarcadero Pro response
So after championing a bad ship in a made up role and STILL being shown multiple ships do your imaginary role better, you're going to, literally, turn to name calling?
I'm on my main. I have A LOT of pvp experience. What about you? Who is your main?
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Absolom Hues
Gallente The Triangle Veneratio Venator Alliance
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Posted - 2009.01.28 20:21:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Absolom Hues on 28/01/2009 20:22:26
Originally by: DubanFP Edited by: DubanFP on 28/01/2009 19:37:15
Originally by: Absolom Hues Unless you are talking about faction fit... show me a Harbi or Cane fit that can break any Drake tank.
The last time I went around championing a ship with details the Rapier/Huginn went from about 10 active users to a premier PVP ship of common use even after being nerfed. Still, fit properly a RF phased plasma Cane "cost 50 mil after insurance" can deal 750+ thermal DPS which is pretty much the drake's Achilles heel. Just overload to 850+ when you reach that critical 33% and instant dead drake.
My fitting has about 41k EHP and all the numbers is with my current skillset as opposed the default level V. I have yet to meet a drake that could tank it, even the no-tackle variety cries under it. Yes I always keep RF Phased plasma M in my hanger so unless the drake is specifically fit against me it is dead. Oh, and with Hail M it does 860 DPS for armor tanks. No drake can match that.
Ok.. so you don't want to show your fit.... ... you just made me go to battleclinic and look it up from some of your loss mails. Anywise, that fit would be hard on most Drake tanks.
Better hope you never meet a HAM Drake 1v1 with Fulmination Rage missels... that explosive hole is much bigger than the drakes thermal hole you describe. ___
Quote from Karrade Krise concerning stealth bombers:
"I felt a disturbance in the Expansion...it was as if millions of people /facepalmed....and were suddenly Nerfed."
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Vrabac
Zawa's Fan Club
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Posted - 2009.01.28 20:22:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Embarcadero You obviously never participated system defenses when gate is bubbled and enemy fleet is jumping in... Go get some real experience next time before you post anything so ignorant...
YEAH! GO GET SOME REAL EXPERIENCE LIKE GO TO 0.0 WHERE MISTER FLEET COMMANDER TELLS YOU WHO TO SHOOT AT BEFORE YOU POST!
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DubanFP
Caldari Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2009.01.28 20:23:00 -
[47]
Edited by: DubanFP on 28/01/2009 23:27:59
Originally by: Absolom Hues [Better hope you never meet a HAM Drake 1v1 with Fulmination Rage missels... that explosive hole is much bigger than the drakes thermal hole you describe.
Rage missiles?... _______________
This is EVE. Here you have the right to settle any disagreements with lethal force. |
Vrabac
Zawa's Fan Club
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Posted - 2009.01.28 20:32:00 -
[48]
Originally by: DubanFP Edited by: DubanFP on 28/01/2009 20:23:58
Originally by: Absolom Hues [Better hope you never meet a HAM Drake 1v1 with Fulmination Rage missels... that explosive hole is much bigger than the drakes thermal hole you describe.
Rage missiles?
Actually after QR they kick ass fyi.
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Embarcadero
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Posted - 2009.01.28 20:34:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Endless Subversion
Originally by: Embarcadero Pro response
So after championing a bad ship in a made up role and STILL being shown multiple ships do your imaginary role better, you're going to, literally, turn to name calling?
I'm on my main. I have A LOT of pvp experience. What about you? Who is your main?
So lets see.. Someone who never flew arbitrators is making conclusions based on his both ignorant and arrogant imagination.
Splendid!
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Mortuus
Minmatar Fat J Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2009.01.28 20:41:00 -
[50]
I lolz at system defense arbitrator...seriously, get a BC and kill a couple sniper BS before they can even burn out of the bubble...
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Mortuus
Minmatar Fat J Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2009.01.28 20:43:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Embarcadero
Originally by: DubanFP
Originally by: Embarcadero
Oh yeah another pile of ignorance. Tell me more what exactly vagabond pilot can do to me if I have him scrambled and webbed and orbiting him at 500 m and he has no neutralizer fitted (which happens a lot). Zealot is even easier pray.
Besides not get scrambled and webbed in the first place?
MWD away, overload MWD, overload web and scram, hit approach and he will be caught because of his mwd interia. Profit
Also, WTB Enyo with 3 mids.
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JITAALT5
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Posted - 2009.01.28 21:11:00 -
[52]
Enyo is meh considering that the taranis has similar DPS while being a lot faster and mounting full tackle. Wolf/jag on the other hand are pretty excellent if you know what you are doing, mostly due to capless weapons. Also, don't underestimate the arby. Its not a rupture/rax but bonused TDs can pretty devastating while it puts out decent enough damage. |
ArmyOfMe
4S Corporation Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.01.28 21:44:00 -
[53]
your wrong on so many lvl's when it comes to the drake. even with web, mwd, scram its a extremly powerfull ship.
only truly overestimated ship i know is the falcon.
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Cletus Graeme
Caldari Duty.
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Posted - 2009.01.28 22:03:00 -
[54]
Edited by: Cletus Graeme on 28/01/2009 22:50:29
No, no no! Drake sucks in PvP. Please don't buy it as it's only good for mission running. Honest!
Overrated:
Electronic Attack Ships:
Only really useful in a frigate wolf pack where their speed allows them to keep up with the rest of the gang. In every other situation they go pop too fast to be useful.
Assault Ships: These are more useful than ever before cos of the scram and web changes but are still less useful than other ship classes in most fights, except when flying in a frigate wolfpack (see EAS above)
Amarr Recons:
As has already been mentioned they're useless for fleet combat but do excel in small engagements. I think they are well balanced now but because the Curse was once way overpowered when fitted with nos+damps+nano people still fear them a lot.
Matari Recons:
Since the nano and web nerf these ships are no longer overpowered but some people still fear them. They're only a big threat to smaller ships now, unless they are part of a well balanced gang in which case they're still great as EW support.
Stealth Bombers:
As soon as people can fly these they jump into them wanting to instapop everything but instead proceed to get popped themselves very quickly. They're made of paper and take a lot of skill to fit/fly properly. Having said that, in a cloaking gang with an FC who knows how to use them, they're awesome.
I'd also include Caldari Recons in this list but as the Falcon has been mentioned so much already I didn't bother to. The Gallente Recons have been balanced since the damp nerf so they've not been overrated for some time.
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Yashiri
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Posted - 2009.01.28 22:25:00 -
[55]
Personal pet peeve-
Vexors'its as super l337 drone boat and teh coolsies for all these reasons;' *stupid list of reasons*
hello there o/ this is called a 'thorax' it's better than your vexor in almost every conceivable way, I have more HP, I'm faster... ooh noes you can field a full flight of drones! wait, wait no... I can do that too, and look! I have more turrets than you too! and oh my.. is that an extra low slot? y'know I think is is.
you can't outrun me you can't out tank me You can't out gank me you can't put more drones on the field than I can
f*cking vexors...
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DHB WildCat
coracao ardente
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Posted - 2009.01.28 22:33:00 -
[56]
Hyperion, **** DPS, and a decent tank at most.
Also I solo in a zealot so there 8P.
WildCat
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.01.28 23:00:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Mistress Evita I'm not a PvPer but I can place this on a Drake. Is this any good?
[Drake] Reactor Control Unit II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Internal Force Field Array I (CPU purposes)
Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Warp Disruptor II 10MN Microwarpdrive II
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missiles Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missiles Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missiles Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missiles Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missiles Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missiles Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missiles
Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Warrior II (5) for anti-drone defense
about 82000 Effective HP (74%EM, 77% THERM, 79% KIN, 83% EXP) shield defense efficiency of 147 DPS of 443 with the missiles and 68 for the Drones
It will run out of cap in about 3 minutes with everything running.
Is that good for a Drake if you put assault missiles on it? I'm just a mission runner and just curious. I have always been told that Drakes are no good at PvP
Yes, that's actually rather a good PvP fit. Well done, you're thinking for yourself and not hating on a ship because someone else tells you that you must. That means that if you do decide to have a go at PvP, you'll probably do quite well. It's not quite how I'd fit it, but that's more a matter of taste than actual viabilty of the fit.
Originally by: DubanFP Edited by: DubanFP on 28/01/2009 20:23:58
Originally by: Absolom Hues [Better hope you never meet a HAM Drake 1v1 with Fulmination Rage missels... that explosive hole is much bigger than the drakes thermal hole you describe.
Rage missiles?
Yes, Rage Missiles. They're quite good, providing your shooting battlecruiser and larger. -- 249km locking? |
James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.01.28 23:10:00 -
[58]
Edited by: James Lyrus on 28/01/2009 23:10:56
Originally by: Yashiri Personal pet peeve-
Vexors'its as super l337 drone boat and teh coolsies for all these reasons;' *stupid list of reasons*
hello there o/ this is called a 'thorax' it's better than your vexor in almost every conceivable way, I have more HP, I'm faster... ooh noes you can field a full flight of drones! wait, wait no... I can do that too, and look! I have more turrets than you too! and oh my.. is that an extra low slot? y'know I think is is.
you can't outrun me you can't out tank me You can't out gank me you can't put more drones on the field than I can
f*cking vexors...
Actually, you're wrong. Vexors get 75m3 of drone bandwidth, on 100m3 of dronebay, with a drone damage bonus. That makes them better at putting drones in the field.
It also has a better peak damage than the Thorax - the difference in losing a turret slot, being offset by getting twice as much damage from the drones. (I don't think you'll manage to clear 700dps in a 'rax) Tank wise, yeah, the Thorax comes out ahead, but ... being able to do 300+ dps anywhere in drone control range isn't sloppy. -- 249km locking? |
Captain Pompous
Is Right Even When He's Wrong So Deal With It
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Posted - 2009.01.28 23:10:00 -
[59]
An otherwise fun and informative thread degenerated into monkey**** slinging way too quickly --------------------------------------------
Yes, my name is Pompous. Yes, this has been designed for maximum deliberate effect. Well done for pointing that out. Well done you. |
Eardianm
RIGHT INDEED
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Posted - 2009.01.28 23:18:00 -
[60]
Originally by: DubanFP Edited by: DubanFP on 28/01/2009 19:37:15
Originally by: Absolom Hues Unless you are talking about faction fit... show me a Harbi or Cane fit that can break any Drake tank.
The last time I went around championing a ship with details the Rapier/Huginn went from about 10 active users to a premier PVP ship of common use even after being nerfed. Still, fit properly a RF phased plasma Cane "cost 50 mil after insurance" can deal 750+ thermal DPS which is pretty much the drake's Achilles heel. Just overload to 850+ when you reach that critical 33% and instant dead drake.
My fitting has about 41k EHP and all the numbers is with my current skillset as opposed the default level V. I have yet to meet a drake that could tank it, even the no-tackle variety cries under it. Yes I always keep RF Phased plasma M in my hanger so unless the drake is specifically fit against me it is dead. Oh, and with Hail M it does 860 DPS for armor tanks. No drake can match that.
haha you're a dumb ****ing **** --------------
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