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Mou'adib
Gallente Fluffy Rabbit Killers
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Posted - 2009.01.28 23:21:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Embarcadero
Originally by: Endless Subversion
Originally by: Embarcadero Pro response
So after championing a bad ship in a made up role and STILL being shown multiple ships do your imaginary role better, you're going to, literally, turn to name calling?
I'm on my main. I have A LOT of pvp experience. What about you? Who is your main?
So lets see.. Someone who never flew arbitrators is making conclusions based on his both ignorant and arrogant imagination.
Splendid!
You are the worsed PVP'er in eve You are either a massive troll or are just real bad at this game. Maybe you should just quit now before your eventual ragequit.
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ShadowGod56
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Posted - 2009.01.28 23:26:00 -
[62]
the falcon
every time i see hostile falcons in fleet ops the poor birds spine crumbles if one of us coughs in its general direction.
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DubanFP
Caldari Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2009.01.28 23:32:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Captain Pompous An otherwise fun and informative thread degenerated into monkey**** slinging way too quickly
Yeah it seemed to have jumped the shark around post 25. _______________
This is EVE. Here you have the right to settle any disagreements with lethal force. |
Captain Pompous
Is Right Even When He's Wrong So Deal With It
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Posted - 2009.01.28 23:39:00 -
[64]
Originally by: DubanFP
Originally by: Captain Pompous An otherwise fun and informative thread degenerated into monkey**** slinging way too quickly
Yeah it seemed to have jumped the shark around post 25.
/me flips back to post 25 to see the jumping shark.
Fonzie's sailing through the air there --------------------------------------------
Yes, my name is Pompous. Yes, this has been designed for maximum deliberate effect. Well done for pointing that out. Well done you. |
Noisrevbus
Caldari Breams Gone Wild
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Posted - 2009.01.28 23:59:00 -
[65]
Edited by: Noisrevbus on 29/01/2009 00:14:38
I find it quite amusing that alot of the common things mentioned as overestimated are often the same that are considered underestimated.
AF, EAS and Bombers come to mind.
HACs and Recons come to mind as well.
What i liked about QR and the speed changes was that it seeded and evened out the game (and specificly how different ship sizes relate to each other) alot more. Even if there is still plenty of balance to tweak in the wake of that major overhaul, the patch did manage to revive alot of completely forgotten or underused concepts that already were in the game. These shiptypes mentioned do appear here because of that. Frigates are still frigates, but with QR they are far better, have a much better effect/cost, and can fill certain roles today they couldn't do well enough before (in the case of the frigates, because signature had a much smaller impact on the game then, than now). The Cruisers perhaps for the opposite reason. Certain people call them overestimated now, because they are not as good in QR than in previous recent patches. At the same time, they are still quite good when used right and have their solid place in the game. Many smaller 'pirate' entities have adapted to the changes and continue favour cruiser-size even post the nano-age.
Then many of these ships are also mentioned due to the timless debate over wether Tech II is really worth it, and how Tech II production, it's implementation and it's development relates to the market. It's quite easy to see that much of the Tech II material is still quite overpriced on the market, and you can see some pretty strong fluctuations on certain ship prices that provide good examples of that. When Eagles were considered 'really bad' they dipped down towards 40m on the market, today they are reaching up towards the 80m mark near the Cerberus. I highly doubt something has changed in the production cost between an Eagle and a Cerberus in recent times. More likely is that the Tech II market is still far too monopolized and infected with past issues, and present political issues.
ps. If i should name one ship that is overestimated, it's definately the Eagle right now. The Moa is not considered a great cruiser, and it's quite easy to fit an Eagle alongside a Moa and see where things went wrong with the Eagle. That it costs 80m now, that just baffles me.
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Yashiri
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Posted - 2009.01.29 00:10:00 -
[66]
Originally by: James Lyrus
Actually, you're wrong. Vexors get 75m3 of drone bandwidth, on 100m3 of dronebay, with a drone damage bonus. That makes them better at putting drones in the field.
It also has a better peak damage than the Thorax - the difference in losing a turret slot, being offset by getting twice as much damage from the drones. (I don't think you'll manage to clear 700dps in a 'rax) Tank wise, yeah, the Thorax comes out ahead, but ... being able to do 300+ dps anywhere in drone control range isn't sloppy.
this would be a good point... if the thorax didn't have it's own drone bay. with a full flight of drones (or actually 2 flights of lights for this would serve you better)you effectively negate the vexors bonuses, two flights of light drones is more than enough to destroy the drones he's got attacking you, and if his drones are attacking your drones then He's *not* attacking you which means you pull a head in the 'DPS Race' so to speak. a well flown, well fitted Thorax should beat a vexor of any competence any day, if you're not then IMO, you're doing it wrong.
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Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2009.01.29 00:15:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Eardianm
Originally by: DubanFP Edited by: DubanFP on 28/01/2009 19:37:15
Originally by: Absolom Hues Unless you are talking about faction fit... show me a Harbi or Cane fit that can break any Drake tank.
The last time I went around championing a ship with details the Rapier/Huginn went from about 10 active users to a premier PVP ship of common use even after being nerfed. Still, fit properly a RF phased plasma Cane "cost 50 mil after insurance" can deal 750+ thermal DPS which is pretty much the drake's Achilles heel. Just overload to 850+ when you reach that critical 33% and instant dead drake.
My fitting has about 41k EHP and all the numbers is with my current skillset as opposed the default level V. I have yet to meet a drake that could tank it, even the no-tackle variety cries under it. Yes I always keep RF Phased plasma M in my hanger so unless the drake is specifically fit against me it is dead. Oh, and with Hail M it does 860 DPS for armor tanks. No drake can match that.
haha you're a dumb ****ing ****
Short and to the point.
Even now, after two years of HAM Drake, there's still noobs who think that a Hurricane can beat a properly-fit Drake in a sensible 1v1. 41k EHP? That's pathetic, it's paper-thin. The Drake has more than double that, is faster and much more agile, and will deal more DPS because the Hurricane can't get to its pathetic optimal, while the Drake hits it with Terror Rage for full damage from 18 km.
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ry ry
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Posted - 2009.01.29 00:18:00 -
[68]
Edited by: ry ry on 29/01/2009 00:18:07
crows. they're pretty rubbish.
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Deschenus Maximus
Amarr Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades
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Posted - 2009.01.29 00:27:00 -
[69]
Originally by: DHB WildCat Hyperion, **** DPS, and a decent tank at most.
Wat?
Also going to agree that Amarr Recons are way overestimated in most situations. The Curse is a shadow of its former self, and the Pilgrim is really vulnerable to getting its ass handed to it if the target has reinforcements. But they look so sexy
BTW, the Drake is a great ship if you don't fit it like a ****** with 4 SPR II in the lows.
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BiggestT
Caldari Resurrection Skunk-Works
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Posted - 2009.01.29 06:28:00 -
[70]
Originally by: DubanFP
Drake: A lot of people fly it for the OMG super-tank it can fit. That's good but it suffers from so many drawbacks as a result in the end there's much better choices. It can't fit the standard MWD/scram/web combo without completely screwing over the tank and even fitting one scram puts you at a disadvantage even if its slightly reasonable.
While I like your post in general and share your un-relenting hatred for af's, this comment is quite incorrect. Proof:
[Drake, Lol copy 1 copy 1] Reactor Control Unit II Damage Control II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II
Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Invulnerability Field II Warp Disruptor II Stasis Webifier II 10MN MicroWarpdrive II
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Terror Rage Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Terror Rage Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Terror Rage Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Terror Rage Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Terror Rage Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Terror Rage Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Terror Rage Assault Missile [empty high slot] <--Overheating offline mod
Core Defence Field Extender I Core Defence Field Extender I Core Defence Field Extender I
Warrior II x5
While I dislike using combat drones over ecm drones, this thing gets near 600dps and 81k ehp :o
EVE history
t2 precisions |
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Embarcadero
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Posted - 2009.01.29 06:37:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Mou'adib You are the worsed PVP'er in eve You are either a massive troll or are just real bad at this game. Maybe you should just quit now before your eventual ragequit.
Talking about worst EVE pvpers Mou'adib over 3 years hasn't killed a single ship and isn't showing up on an any killboard and is a member of some pathetic hi sec corp.
touche
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Death Merchant
InterGalactic Corp. Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2009.01.29 07:02:00 -
[72]
Astarte/Deimos.
Blasterships in general tbh.
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Psiri
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Posted - 2009.01.29 07:13:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Death Merchant Astarte/Deimos.Blasterships in general tbh.
Ishkur, Incursus and Ranis are top notch, Brutix is great aswell with its price considered. Dominix and Tristan whilst they may not be blasterboats per se are also great.
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Vrabac
Zawa's Fan Club
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Posted - 2009.01.29 08:55:00 -
[74]
Originally by: BiggestT
Originally by: DubanFP
Drake: A lot of people fly it for the OMG super-tank it can fit. That's good but it suffers from so many drawbacks as a result in the end there's much better choices. It can't fit the standard MWD/scram/web combo without completely screwing over the tank and even fitting one scram puts you at a disadvantage even if its slightly reasonable.
While I like your post in general and share your un-relenting hatred for af's, this comment is quite incorrect. Proof:
[Drake, Lol copy 1 copy 1] Reactor Control Unit II Damage Control II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II
Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Invulnerability Field II Warp Disruptor II Stasis Webifier II 10MN MicroWarpdrive II
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Terror Rage Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Terror Rage Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Terror Rage Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Terror Rage Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Terror Rage Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Terror Rage Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Terror Rage Assault Missile [empty high slot] <--Overheating offline mod
Core Defence Field Extender I Core Defence Field Extender I Core Defence Field Extender I
Warrior II x5
While I dislike using combat drones over ecm drones, this thing gets near 600dps and 81k ehp :o
Use 1 LSE and 2 invus, gives better ehp plus more stuff to overload to make it even better. Drop the RCU for 3rd BCU, change WD into scrambler. Needs awu5 or grid implant but the change is well worth it. Otherwise PDU instead of 1 BCU if you dont have awu5/grid implant to get some slight tank improvement.
Tested this against slaved trimarked hurricane and won. Than again I'm not entirely sure about said hurricane's competence, but still I made no attempts to move away or something, was just a straightforward damage exchange.
Gets about 670 dps with my skills, not exactly 850 of a hurricane or 800 of harb so it's probably slightly inferior for gang work when not shot at, but combined with way better tank and better mobility - not to mention no need to rep yourself after every fight - it should come out notably better overall. |
Skira Ranos
Blood Money Inc.
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Posted - 2009.01.29 10:44:00 -
[75]
Edited by: Skira Ranos on 29/01/2009 10:44:31
Originally by: Death Merchant Astarte/Deimos.
Blasterships in general tbh.
Seconded. Skill tends to trump close range DPS...
That doesn't mean I think blaster boats are BAD, just overatted. |
TimMc
Gallente Brutal Deliverance OWN Alliance
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Posted - 2009.01.29 11:24:00 -
[76]
Assault frigates, electronc warfare frigates (except kitsune) and drakes are generally overrated. Most people will avoid drakes but usually their tanks are pretty menial.
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Ione Hunt
0utbreak
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Posted - 2009.01.29 11:29:00 -
[77]
Love gankathrons, but they're definitely more vulnerable after the last patch. Before I used to solo with a gankathron, because I hit up to around 29km, and if I got a web on the target, it usually melted quickly.
Now with the web changes, this isn't really feasible any longer unless you fight only BC and larger. Damp Rapier and Gankathron combo still rocks though _______________
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Deschenus Maximus
Amarr Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades
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Posted - 2009.01.29 12:26:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Skira Ranos Edited by: Skira Ranos on 29/01/2009 10:44:31
Originally by: Death Merchant Astarte/Deimos.
Blasterships in general tbh.
Seconded. Skill tends to trump close range DPS...
That doesn't mean I think blaster boats are BAD, just overatted.
I don't think they are overestimated. Anyone who has a damned clue knows blasterships are hurting.
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The Djego
Minmatar merovinger inc
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Posted - 2009.01.29 13:07:00 -
[79]
AF, HAC, CS in general(if not using roles like Sniper Hacs or Gang Boni), AFs are fun, but they are expensive Frigs, thats it.
Solo Ability of Recons with Cov Ops Cloak especialy after QR(Rapier is now cap to, Arazu was before, Pilgram isn¦t stellar but halve deacend).
The Ability of Blasterships to punch thrue and kill anything in sight(especialy in the sub BS area). Even in the BS class DPS increasement isn¦t this high over other Ships/Weapons and only apeers with very sensitive operating/manuvering in Optimal Range or swith to higher Range to counter Tracking Issues.
Nano Fits in QR(or lets say speed Fits), because many people don¦t realize that they won¦t be out of Disruptor Range in 2-3 Seconds and they aren¦t this untuchable any more be common Weapons.
---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank!
Originally by: Amantus Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
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H0RZA
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Posted - 2009.01.29 13:21:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Gypsio III
Even now, after two years of HAM Drake, there's still noobs who think that a Hurricane can beat a properly-fit Drake in a sensible 1v1. 41k EHP? That's pathetic, it's paper-thin. The Drake has more than double that, is faster and much more agile, and will deal more DPS because the Hurricane can't get to its pathetic optimal, while the Drake hits it with Terror Rage for full damage from 18 km.
Faster and more agile? Can I please buy the drakes that you're buying? The ones I'm seeing are 1,500,000kg heavier and have a 25m/s slower base speed than a cane. Also, they're nearly 150m/s slower if both are fitted with a T2 MWD.
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The Djego
Minmatar merovinger inc
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Posted - 2009.01.29 13:49:00 -
[81]
Originally by: ***ZA
Originally by: Gypsio III
Even now, after two years of HAM Drake, there's still noobs who think that a Hurricane can beat a properly-fit Drake in a sensible 1v1. 41k EHP? That's pathetic, it's paper-thin. The Drake has more than double that, is faster and much more agile, and will deal more DPS because the Hurricane can't get to its pathetic optimal, while the Drake hits it with Terror Rage for full damage from 18 km.
Faster and more agile? Can I please buy the drakes that you're buying? The ones I'm seeing are 1,500,000kg heavier and have a 25m/s slower base speed than a cane. Also, they're nearly 150m/s slower if both are fitted with a T2 MWD.
Plates/Trimarks reduce Agility and Speed, Shield Extenders and Shield Rigs dont... |
ry ry
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Posted - 2009.01.29 13:53:00 -
[82]
Edited by: ry ry on 29/01/2009 13:54:13
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lecrotta
lecrotta Corp
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Posted - 2009.01.29 14:01:00 -
[83]
Originally by: ry ry
I dunno what ship your commenting on but its a cloaker....
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H0RZA
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Posted - 2009.01.29 14:18:00 -
[84]
Originally by: The Djego Plates/Trimarks reduce Agility and Speed, Shield Extenders and Shield Rigs dont...
I don't doubt it. But then I never was a fan of cut'n'paste ship setups. I don't often use tri-marks on a cane, and while plates affect agility, top speed remains the same. Even then, I don't use plates as a matter of course.
I never was that good at the forum version of Eve-O... and I never really got the fascination with the 1v1 thingy either(IÆm slow like that), since I only ever PvP in fairly organised gangs.
So long as I can fill a role with something resembling competency, thatÆll do for me.
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fkingfurious
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Posted - 2009.01.29 14:37:00 -
[85]
Edited by: fkingfurious on 29/01/2009 14:43:36
Originally by: ***ZA
Originally by: The Djego Plates/Trimarks reduce Agility and Speed, Shield Extenders and Shield Rigs dont...
I don't doubt it. But then I never was a fan of cut'n'paste ship setups. I don't often use tri-marks on a cane, and while plates affect agility, top speed remains the same. Even then, I don't use plates as a matter of course.
I never was that good at the forum version of Eve-O... and I never really got the fascination with the 1v1 thingy either(IÆm slow like that), since I only ever PvP in fairly organised gangs.
So long as I can fill a role with something resembling competency, thatÆll do for me.
Plates don't affect your BASE velocity, but the increased mass affects your maximum MWD velocity. However, a 1600 plated cane is still faster under MWD than a drake, assuming it's unrigged. The agility penalty will have a negative affect though, and assuming that the Drake is attempting to keep itself out of point blank range it will take the Cane some time to get into optimal for its oft quoted 850DPS, and all the time it's closing in the Drake will be beating it down with the full force of the newly awesome rage assaults and making an awful mess of the Cane's not very impressive HP buffer.
Give me the Drake anyday.
EDIT: Where the **** is this 800+ dps figure coming from anyway? With LVL 5 skills (just for a laugh) Hobgoblin II's (as if) 425 II's (for further fail) and RF EMP (crap for killing Drakes with btw) it does 627DPS. I think someone is making **** up.
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ry ry
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Posted - 2009.01.29 14:40:00 -
[86]
i wish my ****ing hurricane did 850 DPS :(
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Endless Subversion
The Accursed
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Posted - 2009.01.29 14:42:00 -
[87]
Edited by: Endless Subversion on 29/01/2009 14:41:56
Originally by: ***ZA I don't often use tri-marks on a cane, and while plates affect agility, top speed remains the same.
Top MWD/AB speed is reduced when you fit a plate, although base ships speed remains the same.
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Vrabac
Zawa's Fan Club
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Posted - 2009.01.29 14:57:00 -
[88]
Originally by: ry ry i wish my ****ing hurricane did 850 DPS :(
Train some skills. :P
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Vrabac
Zawa's Fan Club
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Posted - 2009.01.29 15:04:00 -
[89]
Edited by: Vrabac on 29/01/2009 15:04:46
Originally by: fkingfurious EDIT: Where the **** is this 800+ dps figure coming from anyway? With LVL 5 skills (just for a laugh) Hobgoblin II's (as if) 425 II's (for further fail) 3 x Gyro's (so no tank) and RF EMP (crap for killing Drakes with btw) it does 627DPS. I think someone is making **** up.
I'm not "making **** up". Lvl 5 skills are something easily beaten with
a) actually traning them to lvl 5 b) using hardwirings
There is also such ammo as Hail M (very useful no matter what people say on forums) and 2 slots for launchers.
Have a peek
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H0RZA
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Posted - 2009.01.29 15:21:00 -
[90]
Edited by: ***ZA on 29/01/2009 15:22:17 Edited by: ***ZA on 29/01/2009 15:21:31 Well, it shows you how much I've actually tested these things on TQ!
My understanding of a plated setup was that it will add mass to a ship, meaning it takes longer to reach top speed, but doesn't actually lower top speed. Obviously wrong - point taken.
But as I said, I've never been in a 1v1 situation of any real value, so theoretical comparisons between ship A and ship B don't really come in to play for me that much. IÆm happy to get a few ships blown up before I work out what does and doesn't do the job. And in a given situation, I tend to fly and fit ships to fill a role against an enemy gang that changes ship types, and changes tactics from day to day.
I fly a cane because I like canes. That's as complicated as I like it to be.
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