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Armakoir
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Posted - 2009.01.30 08:26:00 -
[1]
This has logic (though possibly flawed, we'll see, as I have zero exp with POSs and Caps). Lets see if I'm completely off my rocker. Thinking outside the box about the possible issue of getting an Orca back from Wormhole Space.... what about reprocessing the Orca at a small POS and using T2 indy's to get the minerals out?
I guess the question is... has anyone ever actually reprocessed a cap ship before, on purpose? If you can get the Orca back, great! But it seems as if these expeditions into W-space will require some 'worst case scenario' planning to cut possible losses.
Thoughts? |
Venomae
Gallente Federal Defence Union
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Posted - 2009.01.30 08:42:00 -
[2]
The wormholes will probably not last that long... |
Armakoir
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Posted - 2009.01.30 08:59:00 -
[3]
Exactly, meaning your route out of W-space may be lengthy and dangerous for which the Orca isn't going to survive.
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Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire
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Posted - 2009.01.30 09:03:00 -
[4]
Why would it be a problem getting an Orca back from w-space? They are allowed in any system so they won't have a problem going back and forth... Just wait for a new hole to open if the last one closes.
Fit cloak.
Secure 3rd party service |
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Armakoir
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Posted - 2009.01.30 09:10:00 -
[5]
Couldn't tell you. Like I said... worst case scenario.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.01.30 09:47:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Armakoir what about reprocessing the Orca at a small POS and using T2 indy's to get the minerals out?
What about making sure it's insured before you bring it in, then just self-destruct whenever you feel like it and cash in the insurance ?
_ Create a character || Fit a ship || Get some ISK |
Pytria Le'Danness
Placid Reborn
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Posted - 2009.01.30 10:14:00 -
[7]
/me points to SiSi...
Reprocessing capitals yields the various capital components which in turn can be reprocessed into minerals. I didn't try it at a POS but did it in a station to see how many m¦ minerals roughly a dread takes to create (I was too lazy to add that to my production sheet).
Turns out it's roughly a freighter full. |
Ralitge boyter
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.01.30 12:29:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Armakoir what about reprocessing the Orca at a small POS and using T2 indy's to get the minerals out?
What about making sure it's insured before you bring it in, then just self-destruct whenever you feel like it and cash in the insurance ?
I think that is the best option so far, strip the modules if possible and then just blow the thing up. You might loose a little but certainly not what you would loose if you refine it and your T2 indy doesn't make it out for what ever reason... |
Yashiri
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Posted - 2009.01.30 14:14:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Armakoir Thinking outside the box about the possible issue of getting an Orca back from Wormhole Space.... what about reprocessing the Orca at a small POS and using T2 indy's to get the minerals out?
Thoughts?
you can't set up a POS in Wormhole space, so how do you refine the Orca?
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Useless alt
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Posted - 2009.01.30 15:27:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Yashiri you can't set up a POS in Wormhole space, so how do you refine the Orca?
How do you figure that I can point out at least 3 different dev quotes that all say you can. All they say is that it is going to be a little hard to fuel the thing. But why would you not be able to set one up? You shove thign thing in a ship, jump trough a gate and plop it down where you think it looks pretty... where do you see the impossibility? |
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Tractus Vesica
Caldari Atrum Flamma Order of the Black Dragons
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Posted - 2009.01.30 15:49:00 -
[11]
Wait, what wormholes, are we talking about the wormholes that will open with the up-coming expansion? |
Yashiri
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Posted - 2009.01.30 16:07:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Useless alt
Originally by: Yashiri you can't set up a POS in Wormhole space, so how do you refine the Orca?
How do you figure that I can point out at least 3 different dev quotes that all say you can. All they say is that it is going to be a little hard to fuel the thing. But why would you not be able to set one up? You shove thign thing in a ship, jump trough a gate and plop it down where you think it looks pretty... where do you see the impossibility?
they're fricking heavy, +ship to put it it +orca +escort?
you probably wont be able to put all that through the wormhoile due to the mass restrictions, IMO
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Dreamwalker
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Posted - 2009.01.30 20:27:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Yashiri they're fricking heavy, +ship to put it it +orca +escort?
you probably wont be able to put all that through the wormhoile due to the mass restrictions, IMO
The Orca will only have a covert ops escort at best.
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Armakoir
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Posted - 2009.01.31 05:13:00 -
[14]
Thanks Pytria for the Sisi info. I'll have to remember that option for experimentation when I can actually play again. Insurance and self destruct is probably the best option though. Instant money.
Have the Devs stated the maximum possible (not that every hole will be the same) size of wormholes? I believe in one non-Dev thread I read 12,000,000 mass? Any confirmations? That wouldn't even allow the Orca, and the way it seems to me, the Orca was possibly designed with this expansion in mind (as well as the Marauders). That would make the minimum possible 255m+, IMO. I've also heard the mass will only include the ship (no modules or cargo), but again, that's not from a Dev.
Armakoir
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Armakoir
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Posted - 2009.01.31 05:56:00 -
[15]
Posted - 2009.01.26 14:40:00 by CCP Whisper
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=982776&page=3#62
The mass, much like the maximum time, will be determined semi-randomly. I think there could be room for a mothership in some cases. Of course, if you get your mothership stuck in a wormhole system because someone followed you and bumped the allowable mass remaining to just under a tick of what you need to go home...well I leave that up to you to mull over. Wormhole systems are all about making a value judgment of risk versus the potential rewards and the ability to get the rewards home. |
Strom Nekth
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Posted - 2009.01.31 06:47:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Strom Nekth on 31/01/2009 06:50:54
Originally by: Armakoir
Have the Devs stated the maximum possible (not that every hole will be the same) size of wormholes? I believe in one non-Dev thread I read 12,000,000 mass? Any confirmations? That wouldn't even allow the Orca, and the way it seems to me, the Orca was possibly designed with this expansion in mind (as well as the Marauders). That would make the minimum possible 255m+, IMO. I've also heard the mass will only include the ship (no modules or cargo), but again, that's not from a Dev.
Question: will ships in cargo and maintenance bay counted toward the critical mass to collapse a WH? And fitted and cargo'ed modules?
Originally by: CCP Greyscale No. The only mass that counts is your current ship mass. If you use maintenance bays and so on to move extra ships, that's considered intelligent use of mechanics.
Question: You say that wormholes will disapear when they reach either 0mass or 0timer, how likely is the first?
Originally by: CCP Greyscale We've got a cutoff value (12,000,000kg currently) which is a minimum ship mass that can always use a wormhole while its mass budget is still above 0kg. If this ship takes the budget below 0kg, it collapses. Say then you've got a wormhole with 9,900,000kg left: you can jump a 11,000,000kg cruiser through, but that'll take it below 0 and it collapses behind you. You could also take 10 1,000,000kg frigates through, and it'd collapse after the last one.
Emphasis mine, 12,000,000 is the minimum a wormhole will transport, not the maximum.
Originally by: CCP Greyscale There's value on each wormhole that determines the biggest ship mass that can go through the wormhole in one go, independent of the overall mass budget. All wormholes linking to hisec have this value set so that capital ships can't go through. In the situation you describe, you'll just have to wait until a big enough wormhole appears for you. Wormholes - serious business.
Question: How much mass before collaps, can I bring in a Mothership?
Originally by: CCP Whisper The mass, much like the maximum time, will be determined semi-randomly. I think there could be room for a mothership in some cases. Of course, if you get your mothership stuck in a wormhole system because someone followed you and bumped the allowable mass remaining to just under a tick of what you need to go home...well I leave that up to you to mull over. Wormhole systems are all about making a value judgment of risk versus the potential rewards and the ability to get the rewards home.
This post implies (vaguely) that it's possible to get a wormhole with twice the mass capacity of a mothership. Which would be 2,585,000,000kg. There are several other posts from devs implying that it'd be very rare but possible to get a mothership sized wormhole.
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Raymon James
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2009.01.31 07:32:00 -
[17]
well if nothing else using orcas and freighters as part of the raw material suply might make suporting an industrial operation in Wspace easyer. just bring in everything you can in the hull of the ship and then melt the ship for minerals and what have you.
I can just see the devs face when someone seriously starts doing exactly that though.
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baumjoe
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Posted - 2009.01.31 08:47:00 -
[18]
ok wormholes are based on a few properties first they are timed and second they have a certain amount of mass they can handle and third the worm hole closes but there is always I repeat always a way back to normal space so if your not stupid you can get your orca back.
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Coronae Borealis
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Posted - 2009.01.31 10:05:00 -
[19]
There will be around 2500 of these new systems. No gates, can't use cyno there.
Only way to get there is via totally random wormhole.
So, if you would place a POS there, you would probably spend the next 10 years to find the same system. Fun to refuel... If there would be ice fields, it would be little easier, but you still need more than ice products, so that's not going to help you eather.
Let's say that you find a wormhole in Bosena (0.4 system in Molden Heat lowsec) and you enter the wormhole. And then you kill few hundred sleeper rats. You wanna head back and you find the exit wormhole. And you end up middle of Venal region in 0.0 - other side of the galaxy.
So guys, get real, you want fast and agile ships there, not a Orca.
Most of you guys seem to have hard to understand that the new solar systems are static and they don't move. But the wormholes leading into them are completely random. So you really can't setup a base there.
Example,
Wormhole A leads to solar system 1 Wormhole A collapses Wormhole A reforms and leads to solar system 24 Wormhole A collapses Wormhole A reforms and leads to solar system 1624 Wormhole B leads to solar system 1 Wormhole B collapses Wormhole B reforms and leads to solar system 2331 Wormhole B collapses
If you get bounties from the new rats, then you can of course throw a laser or drone ship there and rat for the rest of your life.
But the main reason to go there is T3 loot. And ship like blockade runner is the way to get that loot back.
Hacs & blockade runners is best option since you will be thrown far away from the starting point and they are fast and agile.
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Dreamwalker
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Posted - 2009.01.31 15:35:00 -
[20]
I planning on using recons so I can pop out and head back into empire without any problems. |
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Kessiaan
Minmatar Army of One
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Posted - 2009.02.01 03:14:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Kessiaan on 01/02/2009 03:17:48
Originally by: Yashiri they're fricking heavy, +ship to put it it +orca +escort?
you probably wont be able to put all that through the wormhoile due to the mass restrictions, IMO
Orca has a mass of 2.5BS. The minimum mass a wormhole will support is roughly cruiser size. Maximum will admit a supercap but it'll be rare, and no wormhole in highsec will be able to admit a cap ship.
From this, and the devblogs about the new AI and how you'll probably need a gang to do anything serious, we can extrapolate that most wormholes will likely admit an Orca, but it will usually be a tight fit.
As only the mass of the ship itself counts against the mass limit, once you find the wormhole and scout the far side (in a pod, if the mass limit is really tight), you can have the Orca scoop all the ships, everyone goes through in their pods, the Orca follows them (collapsing the wormhole in the process), spits the ships back out, and everyone carries on.
While it's possible to carry a packaged BS or two in the Orca, it's not something I plan on trying unless it turns out to be necessary - ships assembled on-site in this manner can not be insured, can not be repackaged, and have a very good chance of having to be left behind. You can still self-destruct them (after stripping their fitting, of course) but you won't get much ISK back for them. |
Patrice Macmahon
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.02.02 21:57:00 -
[22]
What about fitting a cynosorial field generator on it? Then you could just have a friendly capital pop in, reload on cap, then warp out with you?
The Intakis have an obligatin to defend the Federation, but not to assult others on its behalf. |
Pwett
Minmatar QUANT Corp. QUANT Hegemony
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Posted - 2009.02.02 22:00:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Patrice Macmahon What about fitting a cynosorial field generator on it? Then you could just have a friendly capital pop in, reload on cap, then warp out with you?
One will not be able to open a cyno in WSpace. _______________ <Q> QUANT Hegemony Item Database
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