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Farouq Rizer	Posted - 2009.02.01 08:08:00 - [1] Soon everyone's exploration alt will be ready for wormholes. There will also be a surge of players who are new to exploration and will want to try it when the expansion hits. The demand for sister probe launchers and Cov-op ships are going to be very high soon. I would start investing in either of them before the prices start to rocket.
Ricdic Caldari	Posted - 2009.02.01 09:21:00 - [2] From what I have read by devs the exploration wormhole stuff will have new probes and new probe launchers released to complement them, quite likely due to their new physiology (triangulation, ability to warp probes in space etc). I dare say they will leave the existing stuff for normal exploration and have dedicated gear for wormholes. I could be wrong but it's the reason I didn't buy those Sisters launchers en masse. Plus they are dropped from Sisters Of Eve agents so their supply is virtually unlimited. People only need to see a price manipulation of 300% for the LP/ISK ratio is far exceeded at which point all their stored LP's for bad ass faction battleships will be thrown into the launchers.
Itagaki V	Posted - 2009.02.01 10:58:00 - [3] One of the devs, Greyscale, had mentioned in a posting that the people who currently use a Sisters fitted will see their item automatically upgraded to the larger version of the new probe launcher needed for wormhole exploration.
Itagaki V	Posted - 2009.02.01 11:04:00 - [4] Originally by: Ricdic From what I have read by devs the exploration wormhole stuff will have new probes and new probe launchers released to complement them, quite likely due to their new physiology (triangulation, ability to warp probes in space etc). I dare say they will leave the existing stuff for normal exploration and have dedicated gear for wormholes. I could be wrong but it's the reason I didn't buy those Sisters launchers en masse. Plus they are dropped from Sisters Of Eve agents so their supply is virtually unlimited. People only need to see a price manipulation of 300% for the LP/ISK ratio is far exceeded at which point all their stored LP's for bad ass faction battleships will be thrown into the launchers. Currently people are contracting them out at 45M isk. Nothing really has changed atm for pricing on them in months. As an explorer myself, we are more interested in a skill book thats out there, Sleeper Technology.
PhalHell Minmatar The Corp of Alts	Posted - 2009.02.01 11:26:00 - [5] Not sure what you want to do with that skill. Today its use is to be able to build cosmos components with sleeper items.
Estel Arador Minmatar	Posted - 2009.02.01 11:42:00 - [6] Originally by: Itagaki V One of the devs, Greyscale, had mentioned in a posting that the people who currently use a Sisters fitted will see their item automatically upgraded to the larger version of the new probe launcher needed for wormhole exploration. Do you have a link to that?
Kazzac Elentria	Posted - 2009.02.01 16:09:00 - [7] Originally by: Estel Arador Originally by: Itagaki V One of the devs, Greyscale, had mentioned in a posting that the people who currently use a Sisters fitted will see their item automatically upgraded to the larger version of the new probe launcher needed for wormhole exploration. Do you have a link to that? Can't find the exact post at the moment, but its in the dev blog discussion thread regarding exploration changes and worm holes. Here
Doc Stark	Posted - 2009.02.01 16:16:00 - [8] Originally by: PhalHell Not sure what you want to do with that skill. Today its use is to be able to build cosmos components with sleeper items. You should spend more time in the exploration channel :)
Kazzac Elentria	Posted - 2009.02.01 16:48:00 - [9] Originally by: Doc Stark Originally by: PhalHell Not sure what you want to do with that skill. Today its use is to be able to build cosmos components with sleeper items. You should spend more time in the exploration channel :) And you'd be insane to think that CCP would base an entire expansion on a singular race item with a limited drop from a single source, that source being a cosmos which has been on the chopping block for quite some time now.
Doc Stark	Posted - 2009.02.01 17:14:00 - [10] Edited by: Doc Stark on 01/02/2009 17:16:14 Originally by: Kazzac Elentria Originally by: Doc Stark Originally by: PhalHell Not sure what you want to do with that skill. Today its use is to be able to build cosmos components with sleeper items. You should spend more time in the exploration channel :) And you'd be insane to think that CCP would base an entire expansion on a singular race item with a limited drop from a single source, that source being a cosmos which has been on the chopping block for quite some time now. ccp must be insane then. Check out the when evolution leaps forward blog by CCP Ytterbium. Talks all about sleepers in the wormholes and such. training this skill would be important or at least helpful i would think. Quote from the source on 01/29/2009: That is why for Apocrypha, we are unleashing an ancient race into the universe: the infamous Sleepers, lurking throughout the vast unknowns stretching at the other side of the Wormhole maws. Do not underestimate them, as they will remain radically different from the regular pirate factions you are used to. More often than not, they will give you some substiantial bang for your buck and will require player gang coordination and effort to be dispatched. More details are left for another Dev Blog, but at the moment, know they have comparable player attributes and thus require variations of PvP fits to engage. Why shoot them? Because they will guard and yield the very components needed for Tech3 ship production. There will be more details on this in future blogs.
Iridescent Moon Caldari Iridescent Dawn	Posted - 2009.02.01 18:50:00 - [11] Originally by: Doc Stark ccp must be insane then. Check out the when evolution leaps forward blog by CCP Ytterbium. Talks all about sleepers in the wormholes and such. training this skill would be important or at least helpful i would think. Quote from the source on 01/29/2009: That is why for Apocrypha, we are unleashing an ancient race into the universe: the infamous Sleepers, lurking throughout the vast unknowns stretching at the other side of the Wormhole maws. Do not underestimate them, as they will remain radically different from the regular pirate factions you are used to. More often than not, they will give you some substiantial bang for your buck and will require player gang coordination and effort to be dispatched. More details are left for another Dev Blog, but at the moment, know they have comparable player attributes and thus require variations of PvP fits to engage. Why shoot them? Because they will guard and yield the very components needed for Tech3 ship production. There will be more details on this in future blogs. Nothing stated there prevents CCP from having related skill books drop IN W-space. It would be really bad design to not have any T3 related skill books not drop in w-space. As to the launchers, not much will change I think. Assuming that Probe Launchers become exploration/wormhole launchers (which may or may not happen) the demand will only go up a smidge. People that are using the Sisters gear are explorers and will be the ones that are best suited to jump into W-space exploration quickly. These people will have Sisters launchers already. People not doing exploration currently may or may not be intrested in getting launchers. Any ship hitting W-space for the next few months should have a probe launcher fitted. If they don;t they risk being trapped in W-space when/if their friend with a launcher fitted logs or is destroyed. The question here is, are people willing to fit a 50 million ISK faction module on their ships? Some will some won't. I think I would myself. Without a ship with astrometrics bonuses your looking at +5 minutes to scan with who knows how any failers. The Sisters launcher cuts scan time by a third, it would help. 50 million ISK worth of help? Who knows. Untill the expansion hits SISI we don;t have any real info to work with.
Tasko Pal Heron Corporation	Posted - 2009.02.01 20:10:00 - [12] Originally by: Iridescent Moon People not doing exploration currently may or may not be intrested in getting launchers. Any ship hitting W-space for the next few months should have a probe launcher fitted. If they don;t they risk being trapped in W-space when/if their friend with a launcher fitted logs or is destroyed. The question here is, are people willing to fit a 50 million ISK faction module on their ships? Some will some won't. I think I would myself. Without a ship with astrometrics bonuses your looking at +5 minutes to scan with who knows how any failers. The Sisters launcher cuts scan time by a third, it would help. 50 million ISK worth of help? Who knows. Untill the expansion hits SISI we don;t have any real info to work with. The Sisters launcher drops scan times by 25% not a third. Also, with the appropriate skill maxed out and appropriate riggings you can get scan times on a ship without astrometrics bonus down to four minutes. With the good implant and a sisters launcher, it can get under three minutes.
Kazzac Elentria	Posted - 2009.02.01 21:32:00 - [13] Originally by: Doc Stark ccp must be insane then. Check out the when evolution leaps forward blog by CCP Ytterbium. Talks all about sleepers in the wormholes and such. training this skill would be important or at least helpful i would think. Quote from the source on 01/29/2009: That is why for Apocrypha, we are unleashing an ancient race into the universe: the infamous Sleepers, lurking throughout the vast unknowns stretching at the other side of the Wormhole maws. Do not underestimate them, as they will remain radically different from the regular pirate factions you are used to. More often than not, they will give you some substiantial bang for your buck and will require player gang coordination and effort to be dispatched. More details are left for another Dev Blog, but at the moment, know they have comparable player attributes and thus require variations of PvP fits to engage. Why shoot them? Because they will guard and yield the very components needed for Tech3 ship production. There will be more details on this in future blogs. You don't really pay attention to much beyond the most recent dev blog do you? Ever since Rev its been blatently stated that CCP wishes to move away from the COSMOS drop style of feeding items into games and instead move more towards a dynamic setup. This was what exploration was about. Reread the blog, reading into that and knowing what their over all game design goal is you can easily assume that the books and required items will drop in w-hole space and not be hinged to a single races cosmos mission. To do so would be a step backwards as it would be no different than gutting invention and bringing back the T2 BPO lottery. AS for the scan times , the lowest you can get with max everything is 82 seconds. A more realistic is around 128 seconds. Thats with lvl 4 skills, sister launcher, and the basic implant with rigs. You can calculate your times here
Viilaa Caldari OH Corp	Posted - 2009.02.02 15:28:00 - [14] Originally by: Kazzac Elentria AS for the scan times , the lowest you can get with max everything is 82 seconds. A more realistic is around 128 seconds. Thats with lvl 4 skills, sister launcher, and the basic implant with rigs. My alt has level 4 in skills, flies cov ops, sister's launcher and 2 rigs -- no implant - and has 131 sec scan times. So your estimate of 128 secs is is probably a bit high but I don't know what the bonus is from the implant. Viilaa
Kazzac Elentria	Posted - 2009.02.02 15:48:00 - [15] Originally by: Viilaa Originally by: Kazzac Elentria AS for the scan times , the lowest you can get with max everything is 82 seconds. A more realistic is around 128 seconds. Thats with lvl 4 skills, sister launcher, and the basic implant with rigs. My alt has level 4 in skills, flies cov ops, sister's launcher and 2 rigs -- no implant - and has 131 sec scan times. So your estimate of 128 secs is is probably a bit high but I don't know what the bonus is from the implant. Viilaa I think the basic implant is only 2% with the highest implant getting 6% Don't have access to the client at the moment so unable to verify I'm in the same boat you are though, 131 seconds zero implant. Going for the lvl 5's in the interim though and will likely sprout for the implant cost depending.
Tasko Pal Heron Corporation	Posted - 2009.02.02 16:49:00 - [16] Kassac, for me the magic time is 164 seconds. That's how low you can get it on a non-specialized ship.
Imperator Jora'h	Posted - 2009.02.02 17:06:00 - [17] I get 150 seconds in a CovOps + Sisters + 2 Grav Rigs and L3 Signal Acquisition. I will be training Signal Acquisition to L4 but any expense beyond that seems largely a waste unless you mean to be a master at probing out other ships. In the end going from 150 seconds to 128 seconds is not a big deal and L4 Acquisition will shrink that even a bit more (for me). I'd rather use my implant slots for other things than shaving off a dozen seconds on an Exploration/W-Space scan. I do not do ship probing but I suspect the time difference is really a matter of a handful of seconds. YMMV of course.
SencneS Amarr Rebellion Against big Irreversible Dinks	Posted - 2009.02.02 17:11:00 - [18] There are 4 ancient races I find it hard to believe CCP say "Sleepers only" considering they are also claiming 4 different sets of T3 ships. Sleeper Takmahl Talocan Yan Jung Now I can believe we'll see these four names on artifacts that go to make T3. Maybe the skill books for manufacturing, but I doubt you'll need them to fly.
Kazzac Elentria	Posted - 2009.02.02 17:22:00 - [19] I know this is getting off topic, but just so everyone can do a little speculation on the implants here are the differences here is the numbers from my math (everyone feel free to double check me) lvl 5 everything, covert ops, sister launcher 91 seconds With Poteque Pharmaceuticals 'Prospector' PPH-0 89 seconds With Poteque Pharmaceuticals 'Prospector' PPH-1 85 seconds With Poteque Pharmaceuticals 'Prospector' PPH-2 82 seconds lvl 4 everything, covert ops, sister launcher 131 seconds With Poteque Pharmaceuticals 'Prospector' PPH-0 128 seconds With Poteque Pharmaceuticals 'Prospector' PPH-1 123 seconds With Poteque Pharmaceuticals 'Prospector' PPH-2 118 seconds So the effects of the implant are definately more pronounced the more you suck at scanning. Even then though, they take a perfectly good combat slot that's used for a multitude of other more useful implants.
Hikari Haruhi	Posted - 2009.02.02 17:34:00 - [20] Originally by: SencneS There are 4 ancient races I find it hard to believe CCP say "Sleepers only" considering they are also claiming 4 different sets of T3 ships. Sleeper Takmahl Talocan Yan Jung Now I can believe we'll see these four names on artifacts that go to make T3. Maybe the skill books for manufacturing, but I doubt you'll need them to fly. I think all doc was pointing out is that the explorer community is training up on sleep technology skills to prepare for the next expansion. Of course there is no "sleeper only" mentioned. But the little hints and breadcrumbs ccp devs are giving us hint at least sleepers are going to be one of prob dozens of diff alien races. So i dont see the harm in training the skill now rather than later. even if it turns out to be bunk. get ahead of the game. smart thinking doc.
Imperator Jora'h	Posted - 2009.02.02 17:48:00 - [21] Originally by: Hikari Haruhi So i dont see the harm in training the skill now rather than later. even if it turns out to be bunk. get ahead of the game. smart thinking doc. The "harm" is those skill books have had a massive price spike. If you can really make a go of building T3 it may be money well spent. If not then wait for prices to settle again. -------------------------------------------------- "Of course," said my grandfather, pulling a gun from his belt as he stepped from the Time Machine, "there's no paradox if I shoot you!"
Havok Pierce Gallente The Bastards The Bastards.	Posted - 2009.02.02 17:53:00 - [22] Originally by: Kazzac Elentria I know this is getting off topic, but just so everyone can do a little speculation on the implants here are the differences here is the numbers from my math (everyone feel free to double check me) lvl 5 everything, covert ops, sister launcher 91 seconds With Poteque Pharmaceuticals 'Prospector' PPH-0 89 seconds With Poteque Pharmaceuticals 'Prospector' PPH-1 85 seconds With Poteque Pharmaceuticals 'Prospector' PPH-2 82 seconds lvl 4 everything, covert ops, sister launcher 131 seconds With Poteque Pharmaceuticals 'Prospector' PPH-0 128 seconds With Poteque Pharmaceuticals 'Prospector' PPH-1 123 seconds With Poteque Pharmaceuticals 'Prospector' PPH-2 118 seconds So the effects of the implant are definately more pronounced the more you suck at scanning. Even then though, they take a perfectly good combat slot that's used for a multitude of other more useful implants. 122s myself with Covops 4, SA4, and the 6% implant. I'm mostly wondering myself if CCP will be changing the base probe cycle times. Originally by: CCP Wrangler There's a Community petition category??
Hoshi Eviction.	Posted - 2009.02.04 02:17:00 - [23] Originally by: Havok Pierce I'm mostly wondering myself if CCP will be changing the base probe cycle times. Considering they are reworking the whole probe system from the bottom up I would find that very likely. Signal Acquisition might not even effect scan time in the new system but something completely different. Only thing said is that it will remain the most important scan skill but time might not be as important anymore.
Salpad Caldari Carebears with Attitude	Posted - 2009.02.04 02:36:00 - [24] Originally by: Itagaki V One of the devs, Greyscale, had mentioned in a posting that the people who currently use a Sisters fitted will see their item automatically upgraded to the larger version of the new probe launcher needed for wormhole exploration. I bought a Sister's launcher last year, but never got around to using it yet. It is sitting in a container in a station. Will it still be upgraded, even if it isn't sitting directly in the hangar?
Kazzac Elentria	Posted - 2009.02.04 02:43:00 - [25] Originally by: Salpad Originally by: Itagaki V One of the devs, Greyscale, had mentioned in a posting that the people who currently use a Sisters fitted will see their item automatically upgraded to the larger version of the new probe launcher needed for wormhole exploration. I bought a Sister's launcher last year, but never got around to using it yet. It is sitting in a container in a station. Will it still be upgraded, even if it isn't sitting directly in the hangar? Yes Sal, that was covered in the threadnaught regarding the exploration. All launchers will get the upgrade. Those that are fitted will be pulled from ship and dropped into hangar.
Salpad Caldari Carebears with Attitude	Posted - 2009.02.04 03:35:00 - [26] Thanks, Kazzac. -- Salpad

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