Pages: 1 2 3 :: [one page] |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Cypher V
Minmatar Ore Mongers
|
Posted - 2009.02.04 09:32:00 -
[1]
I'm a thoroughbred Minmatar, and our battleships suck... But when it comes to the Marauders I find that The Vargur aint all THAT bad on EFT.
The damage output isn't great... around 750 or something inc. drones, but you have a huge falloff with the ability to swap out damage types. You can also permarun your AB (440m/s) and tank and tractors and salvagers and **** movie all at the same time! With the added bonus of being able to swap out the damage types you deal... I want to know is the Vargur all that bad a ship to train for?
The Paladin is often hailed as the best one, I guess because of the numbers EFT show you, but that's all EM/Therm. You can't swap out damage types if you need to shoot Exp.
So... to sum up my actual question here; Do I spend 95days training for the Vargur? Or 145days for a Paladin/Golem/Kronos?
Discuss. :P ----------------------------------------------
|
Irdia Freelancer
|
Posted - 2009.02.04 09:55:00 -
[2]
Each have their own advantages.
The golem can also switch damage types, but suffers the drawback that if the enemy pumps enough defender missiles, its attack can be blunted. 1 vs 1 situation the defender missiles could reduce the effectiveness of a golem a lot.
Kronos also can switch damage types with hybrid ammo. From mem the large hybrid is slightly shorter range than artillery, but the short range blasters longer range than the min autocannons.
Palidin has less flexibility in being just em/therm, but it hits those hard. The pulse weapons have longer range than autocannons or blasters which is useful.
It comes down to individual prefererences. Any of them can be made to work well.
|
Cypher V
Minmatar Ore Mongers
|
Posted - 2009.02.04 10:27:00 -
[3]
Thanks for that, just put confidence back into my skill training plan ^_^
Glad to know the Vargur isn't just "The one you don't train for."
It's a shame I'm in space atm where all teh missions are Caldari/Amarr based :( Might have to move. ----------------------------------------------
|
Mikal Drey
Minmatar Priory Of The Lemon Atlas Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.02.04 10:28:00 -
[4]
hey hey
The Vargur is a hard ship to love :'''( for sheer efficiency then Golem is the better marauder. Its got multiple problems cause everything you want it to actually do it cant.
As the paladin, golem, kronos are very natural extensions of their counterparts then stepping up in class is an easy step to make but Matari PVE ships havet been as restrictive as the other races. If your caldari then im pretty sure you would be in the raven.
If you got the choice to fly any of them just consider each ones style then choose accordingly. I would go out on a limb and say that neither really have a weakness per se because they are all elite PVE ships I dont think any have had threads about them being weak in any form. except the Vargur and its fecked up grid issues.
|
Glomenthal
STRONG POLITIK
|
Posted - 2009.02.04 10:37:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Irdia Freelancer Each have their own advantages. Kronos also can switch damage types with hybrid ammo.
Oh? Care to tell me which hybrid ammo type that does anything other than kin/therm then? |
Altana Altusium
Caldari
|
Posted - 2009.02.04 10:59:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Irdia Freelancer the short range blasters longer range than the min autocannons
Longer range? Blaster? Can you spell "64km Falloff"?
My Vargur does that...
|
Giannamichaels
|
Posted - 2009.02.04 11:01:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Glomenthal
Originally by: Irdia Freelancer Each have their own advantages. Kronos also can switch damage types with hybrid ammo.
Oh? Care to tell me which hybrid ammo type that does anything other than kin/therm then?
i was about to say the same, this guy is either trolling or clueless, kronos is limited to kin and therm damage
|
Boma Airaken
The Divine Comedy Celestial Imperative
|
Posted - 2009.02.04 11:03:00 -
[8]
Fit a pair of super cheap projectile ambit extension II rigs and run a good flux coild permatank with gyrostabs and she shines. SHINES.
I wouldn't run missions in anything BUT a Vargur ever again.
|
Steve Celeste
Caldari Paxton Industries
|
Posted - 2009.02.04 11:19:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Irdia Freelancer 1 vs 1 situation the defender missiles could reduce the effectiveness of a golem a lot.
1 Golem versus 1 npc?
What? |
Irdia Freelancer
|
Posted - 2009.02.04 13:36:00 -
[10]
Ok, haven't fired a hybrid weap since June last year, got that part wrong.
Ranges of weapons (just looked up in the item database). - Pulse Laser II 24km +8km falloff - Netron Blaster II 7.2 km +10km falloff - 800mm artillery II 4.8 km +16km falloff
Thats before ammo, ship mods, skills, imps, boosters. For Short range weapons, Laser is longest range, then Hybrid, last projectile. Falloff goes the other way. If you can reach 50km range with your autocannon, then someone else can reach further and easier with a pulse laser.
Eg take the Vargur with Marauder V trained giving +50% falloff from ship bonus The pulse laser II with base 24km + 8km falloff will hit more accurately at longer range than the 800mm repeating artillery with base 4.8km range + 24km (added the ship bonus). Add 25% to the range + falloff from training and laser up to 30+ 10km and the autocannon up to 6km + 30km. Add ammo to the pulse laser and scorch is +50%, radio + 60% range = 45/48km + 10km. Add ammo to the autocannon and carbonized lead is +60% range = 9.6km + 30km falloff or the t2 barrage 1.5x falloff = 6km range + 45km falloff. What it means is shot for shot at 45km the laser hasn't started using its falloff yet and will hardly miss while the autocannon is at 87% of its falloff range already and more likely to miss. Barrage is the only ammo I spotted giving the boost to falloff and its explosive/kin only - so any other ammo and your much shorter range/falloff.
1 vs 1 reducing Golem damage? I've seen a Golem pilot cursing quite well when they had someone test firing defender missiles at them. As only have 4 weapons, the opposition player raven was plasetering them with defenders and stopping a good amount of damage. I'm guessing they had 2-4 assault launchers firing defenders but I never asked. While Golems do 100% more damage when they hit, a missile shot down is the opposite and 100% more costly in lost dps. Its one advantage a raven may have over a golem. How many missions use defenders and shoot down missiles? I dont know as I dont use missiles. I have seen some posts mentioning npc's using defender missiles and reducing missile damage - giving difficulty to some players using missiles. Missile boats are very popular (dont have any myself) so I'm guessing not many npc's react that way.
All Marauders can work well. Comes down to personal choices. Eg if your flying a vargur and fighting a Raven/Golem you probably want to fit artillery vs autocannons as without the barrage + falloff bonus your range is almost pitiful and they are likely to want to shoot you at range too. Raven/Golems can have good explosive/kin resists so barrage probably not a good ammo to use either. Comes back to 'know your enemy' be that a NPC or a player.
|
|
Cypher V
Minmatar Ore Mongers
|
Posted - 2009.02.04 15:08:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Boma Airaken Fit a pair of super cheap projectile ambit extension II rigs and run a good flux coild permatank with gyrostabs and she shines. SHINES.
I wouldn't run missions in anything BUT a Vargur ever again.
Don't see how you can fit guns with that fit... I have to use a PDU and an Ancilary Current Router II to get 1200mm's to fit o_0
Anyways...When it comes to using autocannons for PvE, I shudder. No autocannons.
Also, you want the enemy to be within 40km of you when you kill it for tractor beam purposes, so an optimal of around 25km-30km is ideal really. You'll still be hitting for something like 95% of you max damage at 40km too with that huge falloff.
I guess from what people have said, the Vargur aint all that bad, and it's got a pretty hefty tank along with some nice speed too. So the DPS is low compared to the other marauders but you have damage type choices, which is always helpful.
Also, a couple of setups would be nice to see, I've got this one worked out on EFT, what do you think?
[Vargur, MiRu] Power Diagnostic System II Beta Reactor Control: Capacitor Power Relay I Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II X-Large Shield Booster II Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field Republic Fleet 100MN Afterburner
1200mm Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L 1200mm Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L 1200mm Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L 1200mm Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L Small Tractor Beam I Small Tractor Beam I Salvager I
Ancillary Current Router II Capacitor Control Circuit I
Hammerhead II x5 Hobgoblin II x5
----------------------------------------------
|
Mikal Drey
Minmatar Priory Of The Lemon Atlas Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.02.04 15:46:00 -
[12]
fighting in your optimals is a pain in the ass and if your going with an arty varg then you will come unstuck because tracking becomes an issue. With the auto vargs they have a 45km+ falloff and tracking is less of an issue.
EXAMPLE 800mm setup
[Vargur, 800mm Setup] Power Diagnostic System II Power Diagnostic System II Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Damage Control II
X-Large Shield Booster II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800 Stasis Webifier II
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Barrage L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Barrage L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Barrage L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Barrage L Small Tractor Beam I Small Tractor Beam I Salvager I
[empty rig slot] [empty rig slot]
6+45km @ 661 DPS "Cap Stable" @ 44% Lowest resist 71.9% @ 729 DPS Tanked
Ideally with an auto setup you should have an AB so you could easily drop an invul, PDU and add the AB II and RCU. for less use of the RCU you can swap out for faction diags instead (which would be the better option)
EXAMPLE 1400mm Setup
[Vargur, 1400mm ] Reactor Control Unit II Reactor Control Unit II Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Damage Control II
X-Large Shield Booster II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Stasis Webifier II Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion L 1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion L 1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion L 1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion L Small Tractor Beam I Small Tractor Beam I Salvager I
Ancillary Current Router I Ancillary Current Router I
Same kinda setup but note the stupid use of fitting mods :/
1400mm II PIMPED :)
[Vargur, Faction testin] Shadow Serpentis Power Diagnostic System Power Diagnostic System II Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Power Diagnostic System II
Gist B-Type X-Large Shield Booster Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Gallente Navy Stasis Webifier/Target Painter II/Sensor Booster (scan res) Cap Recharger II
1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L 1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L 1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L 1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Republic Fleet EMP L Small Tractor Beam I Small Tractor Beam I Salvager I
Capacitor Control Circuit II Ancillary Current Router II
Cap stable at 40% So you can perma run the booster if you really really wanted :/
The best DPS comes from the 800mm Setup so thats probably why most Vargurs are Auto fitted. also with the large falloff capable of matching a sniper fit with TI ammo. Again it really depends on your choice of PVE style. If you want to push the tank up you should invest in a crystal set.
|
Silver Fusion
Amarr Viziam
|
Posted - 2009.02.04 15:47:00 -
[13]
I'm pretty clueless if it comes to Minmatar ships but I think this could work.
[Vargur, Mission Runner] Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Power Diagnostic System II Power Diagnostic System II
Large Shield Booster II Shield Boost Amplifier II Ballistic Deflection Field II Ballistic Deflection Field II Heat Dissipation Field II Target Painter II
Domination 1400mm Howitzer Artillery, Republic Fleet EMP L Domination 1400mm Howitzer Artillery, Republic Fleet EMP L Domination 1400mm Howitzer Artillery, Republic Fleet EMP L Domination 1400mm Howitzer Artillery, Republic Fleet EMP L Small Tractor Beam I Small Tractor Beam I Salvager I
Capacitor Control Circuit I Ancillary Current Router I
Hammerhead II x5
|
Guerrica
|
Posted - 2009.02.04 16:01:00 -
[14]
Vargur is made for AC's. It doesn't have the PG to do an arti fit near as well, and the falloff bonus leads you further toward AC's.
Fit 800mm II's and toss on the aforementioned ambits.
On the topic of golem v. defenders ... They're only an issue when using cruise missiles. Torps take more than one NPC defender to die, and NPC's only shoot 1 defender per missile.
The person talking about them sounded like the defenders were problem v players... If you're fighting *anyone* with a golem, you've got more isk than sense. And if the person you're fighting is in a missile boat and decides to gimp their own dps with a couple of defender-s, you win. Fail argument.
|
JordanParey
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
|
Posted - 2009.02.04 16:43:00 -
[15]
The Vargur would actually do okay with Pithi B small boosters:
[Vargur, Autocannon]
High: 4x 800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L 3x Tractor Beam I
Mids: 2x Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field 1x Caldari Navy Shield Boost Amplifier 2x Pithi B-Type Small Shield Booster 1x 100MN Afterburner II
Lows: 2x Ammatar Navy Power Diagnostic System 2x Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer 1x Damage Control II
Rigs: Capacitor Control Circuit x2
Cap stable at 51% with L5 skills. 426 m/s Resists are EM/Therm/Kin/Exp 72/74/77/81 Omnitanks 608 DPS. Dishes out 760 DPS with HH II drones and all skills at 5 (except for Large AC Spec) |
Silver Fusion
Amarr Viziam
|
Posted - 2009.02.04 17:34:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Guerrica
Vargur is made for AC's. It doesn't have the PG to do an arti fit near as well, and the falloff bonus leads you further toward AC's.
Fit 800mm II's and toss on the aforementioned ambits.
Just out of curiosity and as I want to learn, what's wrong with the fit I posted for example with Artellery?
|
Pwett
Minmatar QUANT Corp. QUANT Hegemony
|
Posted - 2009.02.04 17:46:00 -
[17]
Here's my setup,
[Vargur, Mission Setup] Damage Control II Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II
100MN Afterburner II Pithi B-Type Small Shield Booster Pithi B-Type Small Shield Booster Shield Boost Amplifier II Explosion Dampening Field II Ballistic Deflection Field II
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Barrage L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Barrage L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Barrage L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Barrage L Small Tractor Beam I Small Tractor Beam I Small Tractor Beam I
Projectile Ambit Extension I Projectile Ambit Extension I
800 dps - short two RF gyros since I lost my last two on a PVP ship 6 + 62 km falloff - but I hardly ever kill anything past 40 km since I hate chasing wrecks and the AB makes zipping around pretty painless.
|
Mikal Drey
Minmatar Priory Of The Lemon Atlas Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.02.04 19:33:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Silver Fusion Just out of curiosity and as I want to learn, what's wrong with the fit I posted for example with Artellery?
Nothing was wrong with your fit.
With hardener choice i would switch out to mission specific always.
The Domination arties are a waste and you should go TII : :3x Gyro II + 4x 1200mm TII + Fusion L = 477/3765 :3x Gyro II + 4x domination 1200 + Fusion L = 465/3486
So the dominations dont outdamage the TII so for isk and efficiency its just not worth it. TII also gives you the advantage of TII ammo.
Otherwise nothing wrong as far as i can see.
The main thing is everyone else believes that its a ship designed and specific for autos. There is some credibility to it but it still performs as well when being used as a sniper. Being a Matari ship it has a tendency to lean both ways like some weird amarrian bisexual priest. Arties fit but at a high cost. Autos fit and tank well but you need to constantly fight in falloff and use other utlilty mods to suplement your drop in DPS due to falloff rules. (50% chance to hit @ Optimal+Falloff) Yeah EFT brings out the auto DPS highest but it doesnt factor in reality.
|
Julie Thorne
14th Legion
|
Posted - 2009.02.04 19:36:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Silver Fusion
Just out of curiosity and as I want to learn, what's wrong with the fit I posted for example with Artellery?
It's not bad but I'd use 1200mm arties instead of 1400mms. You get most of your range from falloff anyways so the shorter optimal doesn't matter, 1200mm aries track better, and the bigger clipsize makes reloading less annoying. The DPS difference is not that big and if you fit 1200mms iirc you can drop one of the PDSs and fit a fourth gyro so actually you get better DPS with the smaller guns.
TBH if I ever wanted to use arties on a Vargur I'd use t2 1200mm arties with 1 maybe 2 falloff rigs (fitting 2 is hard) and Quake: the tracking penalty is offset by the Vargur's tracking bonus and the range penalty only applies to the optimal. And obviously the DPS is much higher. |
Pwett
Minmatar QUANT Corp. QUANT Hegemony
|
Posted - 2009.02.04 19:42:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Mikal Drey
So the dominations dont outdamage the TII so for isk and efficiency its just not worth it. TII also gives you the advantage of TII ammo.
Otherwise nothing wrong as far as i can see.
Most people fit faction arties for the lower PG costs since the Vargur is so gimped in the powergrid department. |
|
Mikal Drey
Minmatar Priory Of The Lemon Atlas Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.02.04 19:48:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Pwett Most people fit faction arties for the lower PG costs since the Vargur is so gimped in the powergrid department.
as always i tend to agree with you :)
the gimped grid really gets my goat but its livable. the cost for the dominations Vs TII just never adds up for me and to sacrifice the additional damage just never makes that much sense. Also sometimes i like to spank Quake at buildings. Tremmor can also come in handy :)
|
Cypher V
Minmatar Ore Mongers
|
Posted - 2009.02.04 20:09:00 -
[22]
OK, to the people using autocannon setups;
"STOP! You're being IDIOTS! You simply don't have full damage until you're right on top the enemy, meaning you've got to get there before you deal proper damage, and you've got to fit for a huge tank that isn't needed. It takes too long to get into range."
phew...
Having seen the Pithi B small shield booster thing with 4xGyros on it though, I like it, I like it mucho :D
Changing my original to this:
[Vargur, MiRu copy 1] Capacitor Flux Coil II Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Target Painter II Shield Boost Amplifier II Pithi B-Type Small Shield Booster Pithi B-Type Small Shield Booster Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field Republic Fleet 100MN Afterburner
1200mm Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L 1200mm Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L 1200mm Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L 1200mm Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L Small Tractor Beam I Small Tractor Beam I Salvager I
Ancillary Current Router II Capacitor Control Circuit I
Hammerhead II x5 Hobgoblin II x5
Getting better!!! Thanks for your input! Can finally fit a Target Painter on there too, I've been trying to figure out how to do that for AGES! Check it out in EFT guys... 800DPS with +3% implants and comes with a free target painter! Bargain. ----------------------------------------------
|
Pwett
Minmatar QUANT Corp. QUANT Hegemony
|
Posted - 2009.02.04 20:26:00 -
[23]
I will outdamage you to 53.5 Kilometers for stationary targets and up to 63km at full transversal.
_______________ <Q> QUANT Hegemony Item Database
|
Mikal Drey
Minmatar Priory Of The Lemon Atlas Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.02.04 20:29:00 -
[24]
graphs are pretty but check my bio ..I..
|
Cypher V
Minmatar Ore Mongers
|
Posted - 2009.02.04 20:38:00 -
[25]
Who's "you"?
And my setup does 797dps... with a target painter. ----------------------------------------------
|
Pwett
Minmatar QUANT Corp. QUANT Hegemony
|
Posted - 2009.02.04 21:13:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Pwett on 04/02/2009 21:13:56 RF EMP L moves the breakeven point to 37.5 km but it also means that I start with 300dps.
Not including drones of course, and using my skills between the two setups.
I'll be honest with you - I live in Derelik, lots of Sansha and Mercenary Missions. I rarely get angel missions, but 9/10 missions everything comes within 40km of me. Sansha blockade sticks out as one I need to chase them down, and there's the opening room of WC, but I have a ship specifically built for that room.
/edit: Kin is actually Caldari's second weakest shield resist - so you probably could :)
|
foobarx
|
Posted - 2009.02.04 21:47:00 -
[27]
I wouldn't fit anything but autos on mine. The DPS difference is enormous, the gimped grid makes fitting painful in arty setups. With my skills the autos are good out to about 60km for all but the toughest rats.
Then again, I'm running missions in a region with mostly angels, so most of the BS rats come in to 8km or so where it takes me about 30 seconds to pop them. For the odd Serpentis Grand Admiral at 50km it takes a bit longer, but with drones it's still much faster than my old arty Tempest.
If I had lots of missions coming up Sansha... I'd move to a different region
|
foobarx
|
Posted - 2009.02.04 21:50:00 -
[28]
By the way, it takes three defenders to destroy a torp, so the Golem pilots cursing defenders are probably using cruise missiles. Why bother? You may as well fly a CNR for a whole lot less ISK.
|
Mikal Drey
Minmatar Priory Of The Lemon Atlas Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.02.04 21:52:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Cypher V Thanks for opening my eyes. I'm just gonna go and bury myself..
Dont listen to Pewt and the rest of the auto crowd. Artillery isnt about the DPS.
compare the alpha strike and reconsider. I still get to instapop some of the weaker cruisers and destroyer class's.
you could even drop a salvager/tractor for a Drone Augmentor to get 79km drone activation range. With bouncer II's you could warp in and drop some sentry drones to give you some drone snipage or some long range warriors. Arty isnt weaker its just different.
|
Pwett
Minmatar QUANT Corp. QUANT Hegemony
|
Posted - 2009.02.04 21:56:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Mikal Drey
you could even drop a salvager/tractor for a Drone Augmentor to get 79km drone activation range. With bouncer II's you could warp in and drop some sentry drones to give you some drone snipage or some long range warriors. Arty isnt weaker its just different.
I agree completely. :)
I'm not anti-arty; I just wanted to show that the falloff penalty auto-cannon dps wasn't as bad as he had thought.
But that said, don't get too happy for arty; it is in dire need of a rebalance to bring it back in line with other long-range large weapon systems. It's been sorely lacking since the ship HP Boost of 2006. _______________ <Q> QUANT Hegemony Item Database
|
|
foobarx
|
Posted - 2009.02.04 22:00:00 -
[31]
I still get to instapop some of the weaker cruisers and destroyer class's.
So do I with my autos. And 3 1/2 seconds later I get to pop another. |
foobarx
|
Posted - 2009.02.04 22:04:00 -
[32]
With bouncer II's you could warp in and drop some sentry drones to give you some drone snipage
Eh, yeah. Three of them. And what will you use to kill the fast frigates? Harsh language? |
Julie Thorne
14th Legion
|
Posted - 2009.02.04 23:52:00 -
[33]
Originally by: foobarx I still get to instapop some of the weaker cruisers and destroyer class's.
So do I with my autos. And 3 1/2 seconds later I get to pop another.
QFT. I'm pretty sure everyone who uses an AC Vargur used to pilot an arty boat for months and they have a good reason why they stick to ACs. I had a Mach and loved it (almost 50km optimal with fusion, 0.025 rad/s tracking) and I've undocked it hmm... maybe 6 times in the last 10 months? AC ships are much more fun and more effective (as long as you fight Angels/Mercs mostly) than arty boats IMO. |
Marcus Insanus
Minmatar Inventores Lda.
|
Posted - 2009.02.05 01:38:00 -
[34]
Everytime I fly a Arty Vargur (This mix sounds wierd), i get the feeling of flying a Raven.
- The Vargur was made to fit 800mm ACs (there's the cap problem everyone talks about), just has the phoon was made to fitt 4x800mm + 4xSiege. It's law. Also, The Republic Fleet 100MN Afterburner is a MUST HAVE in any Vargur. - I've tested having a Shield Boost amplifier or a Shield Extender, well, the Extender gives me some buffer, but the boost from the Amplifier is to much to take it out, and since i don't have a perma tank, i keep the amplifier. - 2 x small Pith b-type ? Cap Stable ? Go Fly Caldari. I use a Vepa's Large (Same as Pith A-type) and still can get 5m of cap. a bit more if you fit a cap recharger or a battery. the Target Painter / Web / Tracking Computer in the Mid Slot can be useful, but get real, how many times do you really turn that on? 2 or 3 times in the first ships maybe, after that you forget because you have to wait the cycle to finish.
So with all this, here goes the fitting. Highs - 4 x 800mm T2 (Fusion or Phased with around 40k range) - Tractors and Salvagers at will Mediums: - Republic Fleet 100MN Afterburner - Vepa's Modified Large Shield Booster (172.18 HP/s boost) - 2 x Resists at will - 1 x Shield Boost Amplifier II (Trying to get a Complex module to fit here) (the other module is mission depend, in case i need more tank, cap or a web, really depends on my mood) Option 1- Shield Boost Amplifier II (Gives 54 HP/s more) Option 2- Web, helps kill frigs with the med or small drones Option 3- Cap Recharger, gives +2 minutes to the cap Life Lows: - 2x gyros - 2x Tracking Enhancers - Power Diagnostic system II (i can fit a Gyro here, but cmon, the damage it gives does not compare to the bonus of a PDS II) Rigs: - SMC - Ambit Extension Drones: - Mix of small and Medium T2 Drones Mission dependant.
So, every mission we need to pay attention to 4 things: Ammo, Resists, Drones, Dificulty
Don't compare doing a mission with a Golem and doing it with a Vargur.
If you are a Minmatar, you don't like easy sh** flying around, you like the speed, you like to come close on the fire and ear the ammo hitting the hull of the opposite ships, look at your transversal, try to outmanover a cruiser to get the trasversal below 50m/S. And Get all you DPS in that BS and see crunchs of armor being ripped apart at every hit.
It's a hard life, but it's the way we like it.
|
Cypher V
Minmatar Ore Mongers
|
Posted - 2009.02.05 09:16:00 -
[35]
Hmm.. someone said "I'm sure the Vargur pilots that are cheering for the autos have been flying arty setups for a long time before they got into the Vargur. There must be a good reason they use 800mm's."
I tend to agree with that statement. I hadn't thought about it that way before. There must be something about the auto setup to gather it such a devoted crowd.
Well, I've set up the skill training list and it's going to take 115days to train fully into the Vargur with all the necessary skills, an extra couple of days to train the arty setup up too. (T2 guns + Vargur it self)
I'm going to try both for a few days each and decide for myself which I prefer; The easy arty, or the more powerful yet more work autos.
The suto setup will be pretty cheap to swap from, with only Ambit Extension I's on it, the problem starts when I have to replace the T2 ACR rig when I realise that the auto setup works nicer :P But, we'll see.
Thanks for all of your input guys, I appreciate it. You've vastly improved my reality of what to expect when I begin the T2 mission running journey of awesomeness. Until then, I'll keep firing my 1400mm's that poke out of my Faelstrom's hull, and dream of the day that I can salvage and loot all of that floating debris at the same god damn time as killing the ships it came from.
See you in the Agent's Bar o/ Cypher V. |
Punktious
Expert Systems
|
Posted - 2009.02.05 11:53:00 -
[36]
I run lvl 4's with a arty vargur, and I'm very happy with it.
[Vargur, 1200ms] Reactor Control Unit II Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Power Diagnostic System II
X-Large Shield Booster II Shield Boost Amplifier II Photon Scattering Field II Invulnerability Field II Heat Dissipation Field II Ballistic Deflection Field II
1200mm Artillery Cannon II, EMP L 1200mm Artillery Cannon II, EMP L 1200mm Artillery Cannon II, EMP L 1200mm Artillery Cannon II, EMP L Small Tractor Beam I Salvager I Salvager I
Capacitor Control Circuit I Capacitor Control Circuit I
Valkyrie II x5
-Punk ---------------------------- Bathing in cold water is, just like hitting yourself in the head.... nice when you stop doing it. |
adriaans
Amarr Ankaa.
|
Posted - 2009.02.05 12:30:00 -
[37]
vs angels and other close range missions the auto vargur outperforms the arty vargur by far. t2 falloff rigs are also very cheap, and so is barrage.
ohh and to the op: a paladin only really beats the vargur vs enemies thats weak against its damage, it wont come close to the vargur vs angels for instance, but the vargur wont compare to the pala vs sansha ofc. kronos...me don't like it, i still think a domi is better... golem seems like the better overall ship, but i still have to fly it. |
Pwett
Minmatar QUANT Corp. QUANT Hegemony
|
Posted - 2009.02.05 17:02:00 -
[38]
The moral of this thread is twofold.
1. Try both an arty and an AC Vargur, stick with the one you enjoy more. 2. When you're done, train a Paladin for blood / sansha missions :) _______________ <Q> QUANT Hegemony Item Database
|
keepiru
Omega Fleet Enterprises Executive Outcomes
|
Posted - 2009.02.05 23:17:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Marcus Insanus Tracking Computer in the Mid Slot can be useful, but get real, how many times do you really turn that on? 2 or 3 times in the first ships maybe, after that you forget because you have to wait the cycle to finish.
Have you ever even used a tracking computer?
Hint: its always on, just like a sensor booster. |
Boma Airaken
The Divine Comedy Celestial Imperative
|
Posted - 2009.02.06 00:48:00 -
[40]
Ok so I guess I will post my setup. Granted I am really lazy and am not really the type that sits and runs missions back to back, and I smoke and have a kid so my AFK factor is enormous.
High: 4x 800mm ACII w/ Barrage L 2x Tractor 1x Salvager
Med: XL Booster II Shield Boost Amp II Cap Recharger II T2 active hardeners, mission specific.
Low: 3x Capacitor Flux Coil II 2x Gyrostab II
Rigs: 2x Projectile Ambit Extension II
Tanks all level 4's quite easily and is cap stable. Autocannons instapop frigs and cruisers out to 92km. I have never had a problem with any level 4 mission at all in this ship.
|
|
FT Diomedes
Gallente Titan Industries Technology Team Intrepid Crossing
|
Posted - 2009.02.06 07:21:00 -
[41]
The Vargur is quite good, better than any other Minmatar BS, that is for sure. |
Kurull Skullsplitter
Minmatar Citizens of E.A.R.T.H. E.A.R.T.H. Federation
|
Posted - 2009.02.06 16:41:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Kurull Skullsplitter on 06/02/2009 16:42:41
My Vargur does well in most missions.
Historically I've preferred Artillery. With the QR balance I've found that AC works better for most missions on my Vargur. A significant factor is the 40km tractor range. I don't want to fly after wrecks so there is seldom need for the longer range Arty anyway. The occasional BS that makes it out to far orbit before I get to it (or see it flying away) just takes a little longer to die but it does die |
JoeT
Amarr Short Attention Span
|
Posted - 2009.02.08 14:57:00 -
[43]
Id say fly it :)
Though with all the amarr/cald i wish eve was lilttle closer to how it was 3yrs ago. No one flying amarr but me (we'll thats what it seemed like) - We are anonymous. We Are legion. |
Sigurd Gudmundson
|
Posted - 2009.02.09 12:39:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Boma Airaken Ok so I guess I will post my setup. Granted I am really lazy and am not really the type that sits and runs missions back to back, and I smoke and have a kid so my AFK factor is enormous.
High: 4x 800mm ACII w/ Barrage L 2x Tractor 1x Salvager
Med: XL Booster II Shield Boost Amp II Cap Recharger II T2 active hardeners, mission specific.
Low: 3x Capacitor Flux Coil II 2x Gyrostab II
Rigs: 2x Projectile Ambit Extension II
Tanks all level 4's quite easily and is cap stable. Autocannons instapop frigs and cruisers out to 92km. I have never had a problem with any level 4 mission at all in this ship.
I've just tried this setup and I am not able to get it cap stable. What's your secret? |
Cypher V
Minmatar Ore Mongers
|
Posted - 2009.02.09 16:32:00 -
[45]
Having taken in a lot of the information people ahve been suggesting, I would say that if you're going to run missions outside of the Minnie space, then use the arty setup. This one to be precise;
------------------------------------------------------------------------ [Vargur, MiRu Arty] Beta Reactor Control: Capacitor Power Relay I Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field Shield Boost Amplifier II Pithi B-Type Small Shield Booster Pithi B-Type Small Shield Booster Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field Republic Fleet 100MN Afterburner
1200mm Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L 1200mm Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L 1200mm Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L 1200mm Artillery Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L Small Tractor Beam I Small Tractor Beam I Salvager I
Ancillary Current Router II Capacitor Control Circuit I
Hammerhead II x5 Hobgoblin II x5 ------------------------------------------------------------------------
And if you're shooting Angels all the time, then use this one;
------------------------------------------------------------------------ [Vargur, MiRu Auto] Capacitor Flux Coil II Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Republic Fleet 100MN Afterburner Pithi B-Type Small Shield Booster Pithi B-Type Small Shield Booster Shield Boost Amplifier II Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field Cap Recharger II
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Barrage L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Barrage L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Barrage L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Barrage L Small Tractor Beam I Small Tractor Beam I Salvager I
Projectile Ambit Extension II Projectile Ambit Extension II
Hammerhead II x5 ------------------------------------------------------------------------
I think that pretty much sums it up :-)
I prefer the mobility of the AB setups rather than the extra tank you can fit. ----------------------------------------------
|
Pwett
Minmatar QUANT Corp. QUANT Hegemony
|
Posted - 2009.02.09 18:14:00 -
[46]
Edited by: Pwett on 09/02/2009 18:14:21
Originally by: Sigurd Gudmundson
I've just tried this setup and I am not able to get it cap stable. What's your secret?
I have perfect cap skills and that setup is 'cap stable' for all of 2 minutes. I have no idea how he goes AFK with that one. |
Sigurd Gudmundson
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
|
Posted - 2009.02.09 20:46:00 -
[47]
Well I went with Pwett's AC setup and I have to say it's bloody lovely, despite only having T1 rigs fitted and Marauders lvl 2 trained - I know, I know. I'm working on it!
Have only had the shields fall below full once, on Recon part 1 against Angels. Just seemed to have a bit too much DPS on me |
Pwett
Minmatar QUANT Corp. QUANT Hegemony
|
Posted - 2009.02.09 21:26:00 -
[48]
It's really a basic setup, I just played around with the tank a bit because I just love Pithi B-types. |
Boma Airaken
The Divine Comedy Celestial Imperative
|
Posted - 2009.02.11 00:32:00 -
[49]
Edited by: Boma Airaken on 11/02/2009 00:33:45
Originally by: Sigurd Gudmundson
Originally by: Boma Airaken Ok so I guess I will post my setup. Granted I am really lazy and am not really the type that sits and runs missions back to back, and I smoke and have a kid so my AFK factor is enormous.
High: 4x 800mm ACII w/ Barrage L 2x Tractor 1x Salvager
Med: XL Booster II Shield Boost Amp II Cap Recharger II T2 active hardeners, mission specific.
Low: 3x Capacitor Flux Coil II 2x Gyrostab II
Rigs: 2x Projectile Ambit Extension II
Tanks all level 4's quite easily and is cap stable. Autocannons instapop frigs and cruisers out to 92km. I have never had a problem with any level 4 mission at all in this ship.
I've just tried this setup and I am not able to get it cap stable. What's your secret?
Squire implants, and I don't really use the booster unless I am going AFK. Plenty of time to take a leak, grab a smoke, save the kid from the electrical outlet, etc. Other than the implants and perfect cap skills I don't know what to tell you. I can run the booster pretty much forever, have done it plenty of times, unless of course I am being neuted. I don't know of any setups that permatank vs bloods.
Everyone in my alliance EFT's it and says the cap stability is a lie, but I have been using this setup for months with no cap issues. *shrug*
|
Sigurd Gudmundson
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
|
Posted - 2009.02.11 17:05:00 -
[50]
Hehe, fair enough mate.
I too have perfect cap skills and the impants but it won't permarun for me lol. personally I blame my wife, everything's her fault.
|
|
Mikal Drey
Minmatar Priory Of The Lemon Atlas Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.02.11 17:32:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Boma Airaken
Everyone in my alliance EFT's it and says the cap stability is a lie, but I have been using this setup for months with no cap issues. *shrug*
Cap stability means that the setup will permanently run all of the active modules without capping out.
what you are doing is Cap management. Bursting your booster when needed and running it till the cap dries out if you need to ninja afk. Cap management also includes the booster setups because you have to inject cap to run the setup and eventually the cap boosters will run out. being cap stable with cap boosters is ok but you will still cap out eventually.
the only setup i could find that was genuinly cap stable was the faction one i posted :/ everything will perma run and never switch off (unless you are neuted ofc) EFT doesnt account for neuts or nos (unless it can somehow)
in order of approximate stability (imho) FULL Passive Passive (active resists) Pimped dual smalls or undersized + amps full active fast recharge
|
Sigurd Gudmundson
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
|
Posted - 2009.02.11 18:11:00 -
[52]
So far I am simply loving this ship!
I have another char which is a Golem mission runner and I will do some completion time comparisons. For some reason the Vargur actually feels faster in completing missions.
Am tempted to chuck some Republic Fleet Gyros on it now.
|
Pwett
Minmatar QUANT Corp. QUANT Hegemony
|
Posted - 2009.02.11 18:20:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Sigurd Gudmundson So far I am simply loving this ship!
I have another char which is a Golem mission runner and I will do some completion time comparisons. For some reason the Vargur actually feels faster in completing missions.
Am tempted to chuck some Republic Fleet Gyros on it now.
It seems faster because golem mission running is like mining with missles :) _______________ <Q> QUANT Hegemony Item Database
|
Sigurd Gudmundson
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
|
Posted - 2009.02.11 18:28:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Pwett
Originally by: Sigurd Gudmundson So far I am simply loving this ship!
I have another char which is a Golem mission runner and I will do some completion time comparisons. For some reason the Vargur actually feels faster in completing missions.
Am tempted to chuck some Republic Fleet Gyros on it now.
It seems faster because golem mission running is like mining with missles :)
|
foobarx
|
Posted - 2009.02.11 19:03:00 -
[55]
For some reason the Vargur actually feels faster in completing missions.
Probably depends on what you're fighting. I'd be very surprised if a Golem could keep up with my auto Vargur popping Mordus, Angels, or mercs. Especially in missions with lots of fast cruisers, like Mordus Headhunters.
|
Kurull Skullsplitter
Minmatar Citizens of E.A.R.T.H. E.A.R.T.H. Federation
|
Posted - 2009.02.11 21:54:00 -
[56]
It is faster.
Calculate how long is spent waiting on missile flight time. A random number out of the hat say an average distance of 25km.
Making the assumption an average of two volleys for cruiser and BC rats. One volley for destroyer rats. Five volleys for frigates and BS's.
The number of minutes all that flight time takes adds up.
Vargur turrets zero flight time |
Sigurd Gudmundson
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
|
Posted - 2009.02.11 22:11:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Kurull Skullsplitter It is faster.
Calculate how long is spent waiting on missile flight time. A random number out of the hat say an average distance of 25km.
Making the assumption an average of two volleys for cruiser and BC rats. One volley for destroyer rats. Five volleys for frigates and BS's.
The number of minutes all that flight time takes adds up.
Vargur turrets zero flight time
You know I think you may be right. There is something extremely satisfying about insta-popping ships over 70+ KM away and then 3 seconds later popping another .
I'll be completely honest, I purchased this character recently as the Caldari way of playing was boring me. Only now do I realise what I have been missing all this time. The Vargur is FUN to fly! 430+m/s with the AB running, Autocannons blazing away, ships blowing up all around me and all the time a smile upon my face.
Although I feel I must stress that I'm not a fan boy, I'm far too old and grumpy for that kind of thing. Ask my wife!
|
Chiller
Minmatar 4 Marketeers Rura-Penthe
|
Posted - 2009.02.15 22:40:00 -
[58]
Like many of the above posters, I also really wanted to fly the Vargur as an Arty boat. I squeezed on the cannons etc and tbh the damage output/tracking/PG made it difficult to love. I did not have good auto cannon skills at the time, and so had to bite the bullet and train them up. I cannot tell you just how impressive the autocannons are with barrage ammo. Frankly it is just something you have to see. The three key ingredients to making the Vargur an AC boat are: autocannon II's (so you can use Barrage ammo), Barrage Ammo (all about falloff), and at least 1 Ambit Ext rig (Falloff). I use 2x800's and 2x650s, but that is a personal choice. If you like to cook and clean your missions on the move, striking targets out past 40 Km just means you have to chase down the wrecks. And inside of 40Km... the AC Vargur is a wrecking machine.
|
Traderboz
|
Posted - 2009.02.16 01:04:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Kurull Skullsplitter It is faster.
Calculate how long is spent waiting on missile flight time. A random number out of the hat say an average distance of 25km.
Making the assumption an average of two volleys for cruiser and BC rats. One volley for destroyer rats. Five volleys for frigates and BS's.
The number of minutes all that flight time takes adds up.
Vargur turrets zero flight time
No offense, but that's really ignorant. Flight time affects a mission once per warp in zone, NOT per volley.
It simply delays your damage by a single constant (i.e., whatever the flight time is), which is measured in seconds. This is because you fire your second volley before your first hits, your third before your second hits, etc. Put another way, you aren't waiting on the flight time to fire the next volley. Thus, it's simply a constant delay in your damage that is applied once, not multiple times, and in the big scheme of mission efficiency it's trivial.
Now, I'm not saying Vargur isn't better for some missions, especially after QR where torps struggle a bit more against smaller ships. But it's not the flight time making them worse.
|
Cypher V
Minmatar Ore Mongers
|
Posted - 2009.02.22 19:09:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Traderboz
Originally by: Kurull Skullsplitter It is faster.
Calculate how long is spent waiting on missile flight time. A random number out of the hat say an average distance of 25km.
Making the assumption an average of two volleys for cruiser and BC rats. One volley for destroyer rats. Five volleys for frigates and BS's.
The number of minutes all that flight time takes adds up.
Vargur turrets zero flight time
No offense, but that's really ignorant. Flight time affects a mission once per warp in zone, NOT per volley.
It simply delays your damage by a single constant (i.e., whatever the flight time is), which is measured in seconds. This is because you fire your second volley before your first hits, your third before your second hits, etc. Put another way, you aren't waiting on the flight time to fire the next volley. Thus, it's simply a constant delay in your damage that is applied once, not multiple times, and in the big scheme of mission efficiency it's trivial.
Now, I'm not saying Vargur isn't better for some missions, especially after QR where torps struggle a bit more against smaller ships. But it's not the flight time making them worse.
I think what he's trying to say is that each ship you kill, you waste *however many* volleys because they die when a previously launched batch of torps hits, probably AFTER you've already launched another bunch that's destined not to hit.
TBF though, after like, 1 mission, you should really be able to judge if you're going to kill a rat or not with the amount of missiles currently in space on their way to the target, so as you can swap targets before you've actually killed the the first rat.... wow, I think I need to re-take GSCE English :S
Anyway, I've EFTd a Golem, and I can't see how it's a good ship... whatever fit I use it's either really low DPS, or really low range. Both with huge tanks. Not my style, I like to kill stuff before it even gets a chance to hit me :D
----------------------------------------------
|
|
Cypher V
Minmatar Ore Mongers
|
Posted - 2009.02.22 19:11:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Sigurd Gudmundson
Originally by: Pwett
Originally by: Sigurd Gudmundson So far I am simply loving this ship!
I have another char which is a Golem mission runner and I will do some completion time comparisons. For some reason the Vargur actually feels faster in completing missions.
Am tempted to chuck some Republic Fleet Gyros on it now.
It seems faster because golem mission running is like mining with missles :)
Just now read this, sorry for double post :S
And hey, I have 3xRepFleetGyros on my Maelstrom :P Totally worth it. You'll never loss them anyway, so it's kinda an investment.
PIMP MY MISSIONSHIP!
----------------------------------------------
|
Traderboz
|
Posted - 2009.02.22 22:04:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Cypher V
Originally by: Traderboz
Originally by: Kurull Skullsplitter It is faster.
Calculate how long is spent waiting on missile flight time. A random number out of the hat say an average distance of 25km.
Making the assumption an average of two volleys for cruiser and BC rats. One volley for destroyer rats. Five volleys for frigates and BS's.
The number of minutes all that flight time takes adds up.
Vargur turrets zero flight time
No offense, but that's really ignorant. Flight time affects a mission once per warp in zone, NOT per volley.
It simply delays your damage by a single constant (i.e., whatever the flight time is), which is measured in seconds. This is because you fire your second volley before your first hits, your third before your second hits, etc. Put another way, you aren't waiting on the flight time to fire the next volley. Thus, it's simply a constant delay in your damage that is applied once, not multiple times, and in the big scheme of mission efficiency it's trivial.
Now, I'm not saying Vargur isn't better for some missions, especially after QR where torps struggle a bit more against smaller ships. But it's not the flight time making them worse.
I think what he's trying to say is that each ship you kill, you waste *however many* volleys because they die when a previously launched batch of torps hits, probably AFTER you've already launched another bunch that's destined not to hit.
TBF though, after like, 1 mission, you should really be able to judge if you're going to kill a rat or not with the amount of missiles currently in space on their way to the target, so as you can swap targets before you've actually killed the the first rat.... wow, I think I need to re-take GSCE English :S
Anyway, I've EFTd a Golem, and I can't see how it's a good ship... whatever fit I use it's either really low DPS, or really low range. Both with huge tanks. Not my style, I like to kill stuff before it even gets a chance to hit me :D
That assumes you are noobing and don't stop your guns manually like you should after firing the "final" volley. It's possible to fling missiles into space, but that doesn't mean it's unavoidable. The flight time really isn't a big deal in PVE.
As far as EFT DPS, are you kidding? :P The golem can hit approx. 1000 dps at 40km and 750 at 60km with torps. You can change the type of that damage 100%. It will never miss if you're in range, there's no falloff to deal with.
Contrast that with a Vargur, who will hit 789 dps with barrage. However, that's at 6km optimal, and 65km falloff. If you actually understand what falloff means, you'll understand that the Vargur only deals that 789 dps at 6km, and at anything beyond 6km it deals less dps. As a final note, if you're using barrage (which is the only way to get mid ranges on an AC boat), you can't change your damage type.
I'm not saying the Vargur is a bad ship, but if you think missile boats are "slow" because of flight time or that torp boats can't deal DPS (lolwut?), think again.
|
Julie Thorne
14th Legion
|
Posted - 2009.02.22 23:39:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Traderboz
As far as EFT DPS, are you kidding? :P The golem can hit approx. 1000 dps at 40km and 750 at 60km with torps. You can change the type of that damage 100%. It will never miss if you're in range, there's no falloff to deal with.
Contrast that with a Vargur, who will hit 789 dps with barrage. However, that's at 6km optimal, and 65km falloff. If you actually understand what falloff means, you'll understand that the Vargur only deals that 789 dps at 6km, and at anything beyond 6km it deals less dps. As a final note, if you're using barrage (which is the only way to get mid ranges on an AC boat), you can't change your damage type.
Let's see what you did there: overemphasized one variable (range) and totally forgot about everything else (strangely those that have bigger effect on the Golem's DPS - sig radius and speed...). Let me make it totally clear: comparing missile and turret ships in PVE based on range and DPS alone is pointless. And just so you know I stopped using barrage a few months ago.
Btw you are right about the missile flight time - still the most boring mission boats are the missile ships (thanks to missile flight time) and the AC Vargur is by far the most fun to fly. I know that to a lot of people fun and PVE are exclusive but believe me the difference between the ships is huge.
It was a really constructive Vargur-thread till you appeared, so please leave.
|
Traderboz
|
Posted - 2009.02.23 01:53:00 -
[64]
Read the actual posts. I'm not the one derailing the thread, but rather just responding to posts made by others.
I wasn't the one that started the missile/AC comparison. I responded to the poster claiming that missile flight times make missile ships poor mission ships, which is wrong.
The comments on ship DPS were in response to Cypher saying he can't fit a golem that has high dps. It's quite easy to fit a golem with high DPS and reasonable torp range, and since "high dps" is relative, I threw some numbers in there for Vargur DPS for comparison.
If you can't stand reading my posts, then don't read them. Or get out of the thread yourself.
|
Typhado3
Minmatar Ashen Lion Mining and Production Consortium Axiom Empire
|
Posted - 2009.02.23 03:21:00 -
[65]
you can't swap out damage types in a vargur, at best you do semi-omni dmg which isn't really all that great but it's not like you can go I'm going to be facing gallente lets put all my damage in therm, or lets put all my dmg in em, most of the times you will just stick with high damage emp which does good all round cause of it's omni damage but it's not nearly what you can do with a raven and missiles.
ccp fix mining agent missions % pls |
Slayton Ford
STK Scientific The Initiative.
|
Posted - 2009.02.23 07:25:00 -
[66]
I will say that the Vargur is a bad ship because I do own one.
If you want to fit t2 1200 artys, you need at least 1 PDU and 1 RCU II (or faction) in the lows to make it fit. Add in the 3x Gyros and your still doing a anemic 470DPS w/ EMP but thats only at 24k. One you are shooting something at 50k figure your doing under 400dps. Want to fit it w/ ACs? Thats fine but then you need to fit a AB. Your still doing around 650 DPS though and thats if your at 3k. Hitting something at 30k and your DPS is probably 400ish. Oh, you can only run your XL booster for 3minutes if you got 2x CCCs.
Now, compare that to a Paladin. First you can fit a full rack of T2 Tach Beams, a faction rep and every other mod w/o any fitting mod needed. Using 2x CCC and 4x CR IIs, your able to perma run everything. Pull a cr for a web and you can still run everything for 9minutes. Stop shooting and you can run longer.
--------------- This sig has been censored in fear of recieving the ban hammer... |
Pwett
QUANT Corp. QUANT Hegemony
|
Posted - 2009.02.23 18:54:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Slayton Ford I will say that the Vargur is a bad ship because I do own one.
If you want to fit t2 1200 artys, you need at least 1 PDU and 1 RCU II (or faction) in the lows to make it fit. Add in the 3x Gyros and your still doing a anemic 470DPS w/ EMP but thats only at 24k. One you are shooting something at 50k figure your doing under 400dps. Want to fit it w/ ACs? Thats fine but then you need to fit a AB. Your still doing around 650 DPS though and thats if your at 3k. Hitting something at 30k and your DPS is probably 400ish. Oh, you can only run your XL booster for 3minutes if you got 2x CCCs.
Now, compare that to a Paladin. First you can fit a full rack of T2 Tach Beams, a faction rep and every other mod w/o any fitting mod needed. Using 2x CCC and 4x CR IIs, your able to perma run everything. Pull a cr for a web and you can still run everything for 9minutes. Stop shooting and you can run longer.
To each his own. I have a Paladin and a Vargur, love them both. I don't use the Vargur for Sansha or Blood and I don't use the Paladin for Guristas / Angels.
Both are AB fit, both are pulse / ac fit; both can out mission a Golem after the change.
_______________ <Q> QUANT Hegemony Item Database
|
foobarx
|
Posted - 2009.02.25 03:12:00 -
[68]
you can't swap out damage types in a vargur, at best you do semi-omni dmg which isn't really all that great but it's not like you can go I'm going to be facing gallente lets put all my damage in therm...
This is wrong. For one thing, phased plasma shells do 100% therm. For another, for the most part the mixed damage type shells match the types you want for rats. Titanium sabot does thermal and kinetic, which is what you want for serpentis and many of the drone missions. If you use the right shell you pay a very small penalty for having more than one damage type.
|
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
|
Posted - 2009.02.25 05:10:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Pwett
Originally by: Slayton Ford I will say that the Vargur is a bad ship because I do own one.
If you want to fit t2 1200 artys, you need at least 1 PDU and 1 RCU II (or faction) in the lows to make it fit. Add in the 3x Gyros and your still doing a anemic 470DPS w/ EMP but thats only at 24k. One you are shooting something at 50k figure your doing under 400dps. Want to fit it w/ ACs? Thats fine but then you need to fit a AB. Your still doing around 650 DPS though and thats if your at 3k. Hitting something at 30k and your DPS is probably 400ish. Oh, you can only run your XL booster for 3minutes if you got 2x CCCs.
Now, compare that to a Paladin. First you can fit a full rack of T2 Tach Beams, a faction rep and every other mod w/o any fitting mod needed. Using 2x CCC and 4x CR IIs, your able to perma run everything. Pull a cr for a web and you can still run everything for 9minutes. Stop shooting and you can run longer.
To each his own. I have a Paladin and a Vargur, love them both. I don't use the Vargur for Sansha or Blood and I don't use the Paladin for Guristas / Angels.
Both are AB fit, both are pulse / ac fit; both can out mission a Golem after the change.
can't wait to get started on minmatar bs 5, and the full projectile skill tree, doing int/mem stuff at the moment as my per/wp is gimped and I can redistribute after apochribba.
I for one welcome our new a full year of pure per/wp training overlords!
|
Myrkala
Minmatar Aurora Acclivitous
|
Posted - 2009.03.12 20:31:00 -
[70]
[Vargur, Margur] Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Damage Control II
Pithi B-Type Small Shield Booster Shield Boost Amplifier II Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field Republic Fleet 100MN Afterburner Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field Pithi B-Type Small Shield Booster
800mm Repeating Artillery II 800mm Repeating Artillery II 800mm Repeating Artillery II 800mm Repeating Artillery II Salvager I Small Tractor Beam I Small Tractor Beam I
Projectile Ambit Extension II Projectile Ambit Extension II
Valkyrie II x5 Warrior II x5
This is pretty pimped, I think you could just use t2 specific hardeners and ditch the faction invulns.. A-Type SB's work better of course, but they are much more expensive. |
|
Captain Bevier
|
Posted - 2009.03.12 21:00:00 -
[71]
A very good friend of mine suggested this fit for a vargur for my brother to use on his minmatar toon. [Vargur, New Setup 1] Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Damage Control II
Dread Guristas Invulnerability Field Dread Guristas Invulnerability Field Dread Guristas Large Shield Booster Dread Guristas Shield Boost Amplifier Dread Guristas Shield Boost Amplifier True Sansha Medium Capacitor Booster, Cap Booster 800
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Barrage L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Barrage L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Barrage L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Barrage L Small Tractor Beam I Small Tractor Beam I Salvager I
Projectile Ambit Extension II Projectile Ambit Extension II
Berserker II x2 Valkyrie II x2 Warrior II x1
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 :: [one page] |