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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.02.05 23:03:00 -
[91]
Originally by: Kahega Amielden
The mechanics to stop it are "Don't give someone who you do not trust to a huge degree that amount of power".
Also, keep in mind that BOB can VERY easily reform. The real effect isn't the direct death of BOB. BOB isn't dead because they lost sov, they are dead because the other alliances are going to take advantage of their defenselessness and crush them.
If we must make real life analogies, then it's not like a nation just breaking up and the government dissolving. It's more like a leader using his influence to fuel internal strife, which weakens said nation and makes it easy for the nation's enemies to deal with it.
Someone with a lot of political pwoer
It is like the US president clicking a button and firing all the US nuclear arsenal against the moon.
Or Bill gates saying "I will disband Microsoft, the shareholders be damned, it is my corp."
No believable. |
Johli
Caldari AWE Corporation Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2009.02.05 23:05:00 -
[92]
Edited by: Johli on 05/02/2009 23:05:04
Originally by: Venkul Mul
Originally by: Kahega Amielden
The mechanics to stop it are "Don't give someone who you do not trust to a huge degree that amount of power".
Also, keep in mind that BOB can VERY easily reform. The real effect isn't the direct death of BOB. BOB isn't dead because they lost sov, they are dead because the other alliances are going to take advantage of their defenselessness and crush them.
If we must make real life analogies, then it's not like a nation just breaking up and the government dissolving. It's more like a leader using his influence to fuel internal strife, which weakens said nation and makes it easy for the nation's enemies to deal with it.
Someone with a lot of political pwoer
It is like the US president clicking a button and firing all the US nuclear arsenal against the moon.
Or Bill gates saying "I will disband Microsoft, the shareholders be damned, it is my corp."
No believable.
ripping off the Simpsons Movie? Really?
gb2gbc
edit: failed |
Cyb3r Thr3at
NQX Innovations
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Posted - 2009.02.05 23:16:00 -
[93]
Goons r SCUM!!! |
Morsus Argent
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Posted - 2009.02.05 23:29:00 -
[94]
Originally by: GateScout The point still remains: Why NOT allow one person or a group of people to have this power? Just because more than one person will be affected isn't a good enough reason...
Firstly, it's not a bad reason.
Secondly, while one person can initiate something, it doesn't necessarily follow that they should then be able to stop it.
In the case of an alliance, I think that it doesn't make sense for one person to be able to disband it, even if they started it. Why can't the other members say, "fine, get lost, we'll carry on without you" without the group ceasing to exist?
I mean, have you got a 'good enough' reason why one person should be able to disband an alliance?
Personally, I think it would be good for alliances to have share-based votes for kicking corporations out, disbanding, etc. That allows a dictatorship (just have 51% or more of the shares) or not. If you want one person to be able to disband the alliance, fine, they just have to have the majority vote.
I'd be much more impressed with the current events if someone had managed to sneakily buy 51% of shares without anyone noticing and then used those to force a vote disbanding the alliance. That'd require real shenanigans. |
GateScout
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Posted - 2009.02.05 23:47:00 -
[95]
Edited by: GateScout on 05/02/2009 23:48:47
Originally by: Morsus Argent Firstly, it's not a bad reason.
Secondly, while one person can initiate something, it doesn't necessarily follow that they should then be able to stop it.
In the case of an alliance, I think that it doesn't make sense for one person to be able to disband it, even if they started it. Why can't the other members say, "fine, get lost, we'll carry on without you" without the group ceasing to exist?
All true, and I don't disagree with any particular point. There are plenty of valid reason to change the mechanics. However....
Originally by: Morsus Argent I mean, have you got a 'good enough' reason why one person should be able to disband an alliance?
Oh yes...look at the forums. Look at the map. It's dynamic, chaotic, a massive game changer... The ripples of this action will be felt for a long time. I foresee BoB coalescing in some fashion, Goon-NC conflicts, new alliances and conflicts. It's totally diverted the stale (at least in my view) GBC-Goon/NC conflict. God knows what it will do to the EVE economy.
In short...it shook things up.
Does this mean game mechanics shouldn't change? Not necessarily. However, I'd still like to see this possibility. Or, better yet, give Alliances / Corporation the ability to insulate and compartmentalize their operations so by pro-active action they can limit losses in this manner. That way...they can choose their own fate. However, being 100% protected from such actions by high ranking alliance members shouldn't' exist.
...and please....fix the bloody SOV system.
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Minny Sky
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Posted - 2009.02.06 05:17:00 -
[96]
Some good points made. I am thinking changes will be in place by March to prevent this; game mechanics changes, not common sense changes ;)
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URUS FORGE
Caldari THE TRUST INCORPORATED
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Posted - 2009.02.06 05:26:00 -
[97]
To me I see this as a way for players who do not have 2389329132192sp to get a shot at the big guys. I see this as a major balancing feature of EvE.
Instead of nerfing..Why not enhance espionage and counter-esp as a profession in eve.
CCP has this tendency to equalize stuff to make it "fair" .. well eve isn't about "fair" .. it should be that some people can choose to play fair.. and others choose to play as nasty as they can.
I see nerfing as simply lowering the bar.. its much better to create a counter for actions, rather than disable the action all together.
Quote: A tragic situation exists precisely when virtue does not triumph but when it is still felt that man is nobler than the forces which destroy him. - George Orwell
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Relleh
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Posted - 2009.02.06 05:31:00 -
[98]
Originally by: Minny Sky BOB had it coming, no doubt. but..
CCP game mechanics will be revised from this point in time.
There are thousands of man hours and thousands of dollars lost here to one spy/backstab
It's just too much for one person to be able to do.
GL with damage control CCP
I notice the thousands of dollars lost part....open admitance to the purchase of grey isk? I mean, you can't really count sub fees as the money lost, can you? If so, then i have lost thousands of dollars as well in the grief i have felt when slammed on and lost assets due steamroll events......and game sploits.....
and uhh, thousands of man hours, those weren't going to be spent in game doing stuff anyway? Or are your sweatshop isk grind farms seriously that overstaffed?(man-hour tracking is a royal pain)
its a game, funny way to have to swallow your own medicine though isn't it? |
HTI sucks
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Posted - 2009.02.06 05:34:00 -
[99]
There's two remdies to this, CCP adds a waiting period and/or the ceo's of the corp in the Alliance need to vote Unanimously to disband the Alliance.
To anybody that wants to make a powerful Alliance should only trust people that live close enough that you can walk/drive to their house and beat the &^%$ out of them. |
Khwalik
Ghetto Kings
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Posted - 2009.02.06 05:52:00 -
[100]
Edited by: Khwalik on 06/02/2009 05:55:46
Originally by: HTI sucks There's two remdies to this, CCP adds a waiting period and/or the ceo's of the corp in the Alliance need to vote Unanimously to disband the Alliance.
To anybody that wants to make a powerful Alliance should only trust people that live close enough that you can walk/drive to their house and beat the &^%$ out of them.
Word. I must say I was rather taken aback when I heard what went down after DT today. But it's a game mechanic apparently....I have no love for BoB or OHGOD have found the whole thing rather amusing. I'd love to hear some of the tantrums being thrown today. |
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Kaiten Cage
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Posted - 2009.02.06 07:14:00 -
[101]
Originally by: Minny Sky BOB had it coming, no doubt. but..
CCP game mechanics will be revised from this point in time.
There are thousands of man hours and thousands of dollars lost here to one spy/backstab
It's just too much for one person to be able to do.
GL with damage control CCP
Huh? Thousands of dollars from what? Isk'ies you say? Maybe you're right! |
Dirk Magnum
Royal Hiigaran Navy
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Posted - 2009.02.06 07:26:00 -
[102]
Where do we draw the line on saying what degree of time and subscription fee losses "one person" shouldn't be able to inflict? There is no standard for this laid down whatsoever by CCP, and the game has been around for a long enough time for them to have made a statement about it if they wanted to limit the damage a person is capable of inflicting.
Maybe some alliance mechanics need to be changed, fine. Having a 24 wait period or requiring a vote on certain things won't be the end of the world. But it's still totally within the construct of the game for one person to single-handedly monkey wrench an alliance who didn't address that person's concerns (leading to them becoming disgruntled, as apparently happend) or put decent enough security in place. That's how it should be. Even the best screening process let's the occasional General Ripper into a position of authority, and CCP shouldn't start entertaining the idea of making compensation to the victims of such people when no game rules were broken. |
Poreuomai
Minmatar Mirkur Draug'Tyr Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2009.02.06 16:29:00 -
[103]
Originally by: Gaston Navarre IMO corps and alliances should have some protections by default. For example if the alliance made to disband, an Eve mail sent out to all directors asking for a vote to follow through with it, and a minimum cooling off period before doing it.
Indeed. |
Malori Veneer
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Posted - 2009.02.06 17:14:00 -
[104]
Originally by: Corwain
Originally by: KarGard Essentially it boils down to this.
Eve player will see this and say: "wow that's awesome that one well placed person can bring down an entire army!"
Non eve player will see this and say: "Wow one guy wrecking the hard work of hundreds? that's exactly why I don't play eve!"
Me 3 years ago commenting on Istvaan's GHSC scam...
Non eve player: "wow that's awesome that one smart well placed person can bring down an entire army! I'm subscribing to that right now!"
This is the thing that brought me into Eve as well, the fact that ONE person could have such an impact in a virtual world was/is amazing! |
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