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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 6 post(s) |
Absalom Marathon
Incarnation of Evil
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Posted - 2009.02.17 14:30:00 -
[331]
I wuve my Mega.
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Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.02.17 16:00:00 -
[332]
Originally by: Deschenus Maximus
Hum, I was talking about the Hype, mate.
Not in any way that made sense.
Quote:
If you're hoping to cath them before they warp off, you do.
And yes, you're probably not moving very fast either way, but a tackler (let's go with crow, cause I like the crow) adds some interesting options to a gang. For example, your falc and BS stay on the gate, and there's a flashy red BC on the other side. Your crow aggroes him, the pirate does so, the BS jumps in and pwns him. With 2 BS, one of you jumps in, and the BC just warps away (if he's not ******ed).
Not really, no. It doesn't take much to catch a ratter.
As for your engagement its much better to use some sort of bait if you're doing that.
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Deschenus Maximus
Amarr Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades
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Posted - 2009.02.17 16:14:00 -
[333]
Originally by: Goumindong
Not in any way that made sense.
I'm sorry, reading back I can see where it got confusing.
Originally by: Goumindong Not really, no. It doesn't take much to catch a ratter.
Where do you find ratters that terrible? Seriously, I could do with killing more idiots.
Originally by: Goumindong As for your engagement its much better to use some sort of bait if you're doing that.
I mentionned crow, but there are quite a few ships that are good for the role of bait/scout.
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Haniblecter Teg
F.R.E.E. Explorer Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.02.17 16:15:00 -
[334]
Why the HELL don't we all just go to SiSi and test this stupid crap out???
I got near max damage for a hyperion and a max tank. I'll square off against any amarr. Have to wait a week though, taking the bar next Tuesday. ----------------- Friends Forever |
Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.02.17 16:39:00 -
[335]
Edited by: Goumindong on 17/02/2009 16:40:25
Originally by: Haniblecter Teg Why the HELL don't we all just go to SiSi and test this stupid crap out???
I got near max damage for a hyperion and a max tank. I'll square off against any amarr. Have to wait a week though, taking the bar next Tuesday.
Because their argument is that blaster should be stronger in gangs(where its pretty well known that blasters are weaker than lasers) rather than people should be using rails in gang.
So going on Sisi doesn't much help. It will only confirm both sides convictions.
The central question is this. What should be the best weapon for medium gang DPS only? If you think the answer is "pulse lasers" then you think there is no problem. If you think the answer is "blasters" then you think there is a problem and something needs to be changed.
I think the answer is "pulse lasers", and that the people answering "blasters" should be fitting railguns when they're participating in that type of combat. That the trade-off for better solo/small gang capability is a weakness in another area.
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Deschenus Maximus
Amarr Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades
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Posted - 2009.02.17 16:50:00 -
[336]
Originally by: Goumindong
Because their argument is that blaster should be stronger in gangs(where its pretty well known that blasters are weaker than lasers) rather than people should be using rails in gang.
So going on Sisi doesn't much help. It will only confirm both sides convictions.
The central question is this. What should be the best weapon for medium gang DPS only? If you think the answer is "pulse lasers" then you think there is no problem. If you think the answer is "blasters" then you think there is a problem and something needs to be changed.
I think the answer is "pulse lasers", and that the people answering "blasters" should be fitting railguns when they're participating in that type of combat. That the trade-off for better solo/small gang capability is a weakness in another area.
I think pulse lasers should be best in the situation you describe. I still think blasters need a boost.
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Murina
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2009.02.17 16:52:00 -
[337]
Edited by: Murina on 17/02/2009 16:53:05
Originally by: Goumindong
The central question is this. What should be the best weapon for medium gang DPS only? If you think the answer is "pulse lasers" then you think there is no problem. If you think the answer is "blasters" then you think there is a problem and something needs to be changed.
AS YOU CAN SEE MORONDONG IS AGAIN TRYING TO MANIPULATE THE ARGUMENT INTO A "WHO SHOULD BE BEST" ARGUMENT.
Nobody is asking for blasters to be better than lasers in a gang situation what ppl are saying is that BS blasters are useless in a gang situation and need a slight buff, NOT to make them better than lasers but to make them at least a little bit useful.
It has already been clearly pointed out that rails (fitted with faction non penalized ammo) are worse than useless in gang combat due to a lack of dps as well as having tracking that is the same as T2 tracking disrupted pulse using scorch (tracking penalized ammo).....so pretty bloody useless.
Originally by: 7shining7one7 Lasers get reduced dmg inside optimal if you are approaching with 0 transversal cos lasers fragment when you approach them
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Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.02.17 17:02:00 -
[338]
Edited by: Goumindong on 17/02/2009 17:05:11
Originally by: Deschenus Maximus
I think pulse lasers should be best in the situation you describe. I still think blasters need a boost.
Why not use rails? Why make a change that removes the weaknesses of gang ships.
In short, if rails are an adequate system for these types of gangs(and they are), why do you need to boost blasters to be more adequate than they already are?
Originally by: Murina
It has already been clearly pointed out that rails (fitted with faction non penalized ammo) are worse than useless in gang combat due to a lack of dps as well as having tracking that is the same as T2 tracking disrupted pulse using scorch (tracking penalized ammo).....so pretty bloody useless.
With one side of your mouth you argue that rails are useless in gang combat because of a lack of tracking, in the next, you argue that the advantage of blaster tracking over pulse is irrelevant. You cannot have it the same way.
Also, their damage is not as low as you claim. A 2 MFS Mega runs 538 DPS which is, after damage types against a standard armor tank, only a 6% deficit against an Armageddon. After you consider drones on the Mega, its actually doing more DPS than an Abaddon.
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Murina
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2009.02.17 17:07:00 -
[339]
Edited by: Murina on 17/02/2009 17:16:21
Originally by: Goumindong
In short, if rails are an adequate system for these types of gangs(and they are), why do you need to boost blasters to be more adequate than they already are?
Rails are even worse than blasters in close range....,
ffs amarr got a tracking boost to pulse not so long ago cos of whiners saying they could not hit and rails have worse tracking by far than pulse had BEFORE they got buffed and not only that but a crap tonne less dmg against a realistic tank (not one of your dream tanks str8 off the market).
Not only that but with:
7 x 425 rails
1 x mwd
2 x eanm
3x plates
You have roughly 3 cpu left and 400 pg so good luck fitting cap mods webs or points ect ect....
Originally by: 7shining7one7 Lasers get reduced dmg inside optimal if you are approaching with 0 transversal cos lasers fragment when you approach them
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Deschenus Maximus
Amarr Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades
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Posted - 2009.02.17 17:29:00 -
[340]
Originally by: Goumindong
Why not use rails? Why make a change that removes the weaknesses of gang ships.
In short, if rails are an adequate system for these types of gangs(and they are), why do you need to boost blasters to be more adequate than they already are?
Because I don't want a boost to make them better for med-large gangs. Ofc I'd use rails then (or more accurately, switch over to my Geddon).
I want a (small) boost to blasters so that they can operate better in their niche range. More optimal, less falloff, and the implementation of Marn's idea about falloff mechanics would all help with that, and they're not exactly a boost of stellar magnitude.
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Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.02.17 17:39:00 -
[341]
Originally by: Deschenus Maximus
Because I don't want a boost to make them better for med-large gangs. Ofc I'd use rails then (or more accurately, switch over to my Geddon).
I want a (small) boost to blasters so that they can operate better in their niche range. More optimal, less falloff, and the implementation of Marn's idea about falloff mechanics would all help with that, and they're not exactly a boost of stellar magnitude.
Except that will do nothing of the sort. You operate just fine within your "niche range".
What you're asking for is for your "niche range" to be extended to cover the range of autocannons and pulse lasers.
Re: Murina.
1.
[Megathron, Med Gang] Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Adaptive Nano Plating II Adaptive Nano Plating II 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Damage Control II
100MN MicroWarpdrive I Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution Medium Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L 425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L 425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L 425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L 425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L 425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L 425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L [empty high slot]
[empty rig slot] [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot]
Ogre II x4
Rig with tri-marks. If you've got a 1m isk CPU implant you can upgrade one of the ANPs to an EANM, or you could spring for c-types or faction.(they're cheap)
Regarding their effectiveness...
One to show the short range differences in a large gang(battleship target, low transversal, tank is BC level tank and so slightly biased towards lasers, drone damage is slightly biased against the Abaddon)
Oh noes, the horror, you do slightly less DPS than a geddon(and a bit more than an Abaddon!) Whatever will you do!
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Marielle TueurDeCoeur
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Posted - 2009.02.17 17:54:00 -
[342]
I don't think that the different turrets can be outright compared to one-another; the ships that they go on make too huge of a difference.
When talking about lasers, for instance, you HAVE to consider the massive cap draw, and also the painful lack of mid-slots on most Amarr ships, on which the lasers will more than likely be mounted.
You simply cannot ignore the ships that various weapons systems are used on when discussing things like this.
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Deschenus Maximus
Amarr Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades
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Posted - 2009.02.17 18:03:00 -
[343]
Originally by: Goumindong
Except that will do nothing of the sort. You operate just fine within your "niche range".
What you're asking for is for your "niche range" to be extended to cover the range of autocannons and pulse lasers.
Neutron blaster max range (Optimal + falloff) w/top skills: 27-28km using null.
800mm w Barrage: 36km
Megapulse w Scorch: 55km (optimal + falloff)
Lasers quite comfortably maintain their superiority, and ACs get a nice boost with the MM. So really, I fail to see what you find so terrible about this.
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Murina
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2009.02.17 18:20:00 -
[344]
Originally by: Goumindong
1. use MF under 15km not scorch
2. this is about gang combat vs a variety of ships so use the webbed BC modal (188ms, less sig radius ect)
Originally by: 7shining7one7 Lasers get reduced dmg inside optimal if you are approaching with 0 transversal cos lasers fragment when you approach them
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Marielle TueurDeCoeur
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Posted - 2009.02.17 18:24:00 -
[345]
One other thing I forgot:
Why has there not been any mention, in this entire thread, of Conflagration crystals? Is it just because of the cap penalty?
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Cohkka
Celestial Apocalypse
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Posted - 2009.02.17 18:25:00 -
[346]
Originally by: Goumindong
Why not use rails? Why make a change that removes the weaknesses of gang ships.
In short, if rails are an adequate system for these types of gangs(and they are), why do you need to boost blasters to be more adequate than they already are?
Then why do we have Blasters anyway? Remove them from the game as they're not adequate for 98% of the combat occuring on Tranq. Yes, Rails are better for a major amount of circumstances, so why do we need Blasters?
You're starting to **** me off, tbh. I mean why do we complain anyway? We got Rails that are worse than Lasers in every way imagineable and we got less weapon choice. Seems everything's fine then.
Don't speak english, just F5, F5, F5... |
Murina
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2009.02.17 18:27:00 -
[347]
Edited by: Murina on 17/02/2009 18:27:10
PULSE STILL OWN.
AND RAILS SUCK UNDER 20KM LET ALONE 10...
Originally by: 7shining7one7 Lasers get reduced dmg inside optimal if you are approaching with 0 transversal cos lasers fragment when you approach them
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Valerio Versace
Gallente Pillowsoft
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Posted - 2009.02.17 18:45:00 -
[348]
The problem is that, due to the extreme close range of blasters, they should be able to HIT at that range. It's the only kind of gun in the game that isn't supposed to hit unless you fit a web, which is a mandatory mod for any gallente blasterboat... and then, when they nerfed webs, they should have buffed blaster tracking.
If, by default, against ships of your own category in a realistic combat situation Blaster = miss Blaster + Web = hit consistently then Blaster + nerfed web = can't hit consistently.
Blaster damage is already hard to apply because you have to get in range; now, even if you manage to get in range, your DPS is not guaranteed. It's easy to see how ships with bigger range and less tracking, or same range and more tracking end up doing much more DPS than Gallente blasterboats... imagine guns with slightly lower DPS but much better tracking and optimal no wonder their DPS ends up being much better.
Blasters are supposed to be the guns that deal the most DPS in the game at extremely close ranges... they need much better tracking to do that, otherwise they can't (even with web, since they've been nerfed).
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Deschenus Maximus
Amarr Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades
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Posted - 2009.02.17 18:58:00 -
[349]
Originally by: Marielle TueurDeCoeur One other thing I forgot:
Why has there not been any mention, in this entire thread, of Conflagration crystals? Is it just because of the cap penalty?
Cap penalty + tracking penalty makes them worse than AN MF.
The same is true of Void vs CN AM.
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Chi Quan
Perkone
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Posted - 2009.02.17 19:06:00 -
[350]
Originally by: Marielle TueurDeCoeur I don't think that the different turrets can be outright compared to one-another; the ships that they go on make too huge of a difference.
When talking about lasers, for instance, you HAVE to consider the massive cap draw, and also the painful lack of mid-slots on most Amarr ships, on which the lasers will more than likely be mounted.
You simply cannot ignore the ships that various weapons systems are used on when discussing things like this.
this has been lengthly discussed in the respective threads in "Game Development". different tanks have also been taken into account. the fact remains that if you are in gang (read 2+), lasers are far better than blasters solo. this is due to the fact that your target won't stay within the blaster engagement window (no, changing ammo in mid fight is not an option using blasters). unless of course you are up against a ship size bigger than you.
@ Goumindongs graphs: 50 is rather low for an orbit velocity, care to explain why you took it (+the bs sig radius)? ---- Ceterum censeo blasters need some tracking love |
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Chi Quan
Perkone
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Posted - 2009.02.17 19:11:00 -
[351]
Originally by: Murina Linkage
do me a little favor and post that again but with drones removed ---- Ceterum censeo blasters need some tracking love |
Murina
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2009.02.17 19:46:00 -
[352]
Edited by: Murina on 17/02/2009 19:47:51
Originally by: Chi Quan
Originally by: Murina Linkage
do me a little favor and post that again but with drones removed
Just deduct 317 dps from the graph dude.......kinda painfully crap aint it...
280 gun dps at 20km...
Originally by: 7shining7one7 Lasers get reduced dmg inside optimal if you are approaching with 0 transversal cos lasers fragment when you approach them
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Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.02.17 20:20:00 -
[353]
Edited by: Goumindong on 17/02/2009 20:22:09
Originally by: Deschenus Maximus
Lasers quite comfortably maintain their superiority, and ACs get a nice boost with the MM. So really, I fail to see what you find so terrible about this.
Look at what it actually does to the damages after you apply resistances. Marn's graph looks nice and neat before you figure that in, but it doesn't once you start to understand the interplay of ships and how they interact with each others tank. It removes any ability of lasers to operate within a reasonable sphere of influence. Narrow bands of operation do not work for shorter ranged weapons. I.E. If you only held superiority from 25-40km, why would you fly a pulse boat unless you didn't have skills for anything else?
I can answer why you would fly a baster boat, I can answer why you would fly an Autocannon boat. I can answer why you would fly a beam, or rail boat, and almost why you would fly an Arty boat, but not in that situation could you answer why you would fly a pulse boat.
Originally by: Chi Quan
@ Goumindongs graphs: 50 is rather low for an orbit velocity, care to explain why you took it (+the bs sig radius)?
Because in a medium sized gang against battleships that is the type of tranvsersal and sig you expect. Considering you're likely to have both larger targets(abaddon, 470) and that any movement is going to involve an MWD(+sig in excess of +speed) any turret battleship that is conscious of its transversal(I.E. not burning tangentially to the enemy with your own MWD on) will have such an easy time to hit another battleship.
If there aren't any battleships left then you've pretty much already won simply due to the EHPxDPS efficiency numbers that battleships bring to the fight compared to other ships. (Exception, LR HAC gang, however, the rail ship is much more able to deal with an LR HAC gang since it can actually hit out to LR HAC optimal while the pulse ship cannot). If you've already won convincingly, then comparing the strengths of the battleships is pretty inconsequential. In the same way that its pretty irrelevant to compare the efficiency of a short range gang cruiser in killing frigates. Once there are only frigates left the side that still has its short range cruisers left has pretty much won.
Originally by: Murina
PULSE STILL OWN.
AND RAILS SUCK UNDER 20KM LET ALONE 10...
its a medium sized gang, who the hell cares how well you hit under 20km?
But either way, your graph (battlecruiser, high transversal, no resistances) shows that the rail ships are still pretty good compared to the laser alternatives. Especially when you consider that you had to give laser ships every kind of unrealistic advantage to make it look that way.
Originally by: Valerio Versace The problem is that, due to the extreme close range of blasters, they should be able to HIT at that range. It's the only kind of gun in the game that isn't supposed to hit unless you fit a web, which is a mandatory mod for any gallente blasterboat... and then, when they nerfed webs, they should have buffed blaster tracking.
Actually all short range turrets need webs to hit in the close range. And blaster ships do it the best, with the best damage types against all enemies, the most dps, and the best supplementary DPS.
They really have no problems hitting at close range. You have to be mentally deficient to not be able to pilot your boat to get hits in. If you want to get lots of hits in in a gang, put rails on your ship, that is what they're there for.
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Murina
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2009.02.17 20:39:00 -
[354]
Originally by: Goumindong
its a medium sized gang, who the hell cares how well you hit under 20km?
You...up until now...
Originally by: Goumindong But either way, your graph (battlecruiser, high transversal, no resistances) shows that the rail ships are still pretty good compared to the laser alternatives. Especially when you consider that you had to give laser ships every kind of unrealistic advantage to make it look that way.
You were the one giving advantages pal, and a broad view of all available targets the BS may come across is the best way to balance things.
Originally by: 7shining7one7 Lasers get reduced dmg inside optimal if you are approaching with 0 transversal cos lasers fragment when you approach them
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Cupdeez
Out of Order
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Posted - 2009.02.17 20:55:00 -
[355]
Originally by: Theron Gyrow
Originally by: Cupdeez Edited by: Cupdeez on 13/02/2009 19:02:16 [blaster setup] Large Armor Repairer II Large Armor Repairer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Damage Control II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II 100MN MicroWarpdrive II Heavy Capacitor Booster II,Cap Booster 800 Stasis Webifier II Warp Disruptor II ECCM - Omni I Electron Blaster Cannon II,Void L Electron Blaster Cannon II,Void L Electron Blaster Cannon II,Void L Electron Blaster Cannon II,Void L Electron Blaster Cannon II,Void L Electron Blaster Cannon II,Void L Electron Blaster Cannon II,Void L Electron Blaster Cannon II,Void L Trimark Armor Pump I Trimark Armor Pump I Trimark Armor Pump I Drones_Active=Garde II,4
Not to derail the conversation too much, but that's the first time I have ever seen an omni ECCM suggested for a non-joke fit.
(Also don't use Void. Just don't. And trimarks on an active tank fit are a bit iffy. And Gardes are definitely not the best choice for drones.)
Maybe but I don't like getting jammed. Although they can still jamm me. You bring different ammo for different things. VOID can hit another BS when webbed. The Gardes might not be you choice but it gives me ranage and they have no problem hitting a BS close up when webbed.
I personally don't fly this ship anymore because well I think it sucks. Give me a Domi over this POS.
Anyone want to go on the test sever and lose a hyp to my domi?
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Deschenus Maximus
Amarr Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades
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Posted - 2009.02.17 21:10:00 -
[356]
Originally by: Goumindong
Look at what it actually does to the damages after you apply resistances. Marn's graph looks nice and neat before you figure that in, but it doesn't once you start to understand the interplay of ships and how they interact with each others tank. It removes any ability of lasers to operate within a reasonable sphere of influence. Narrow bands of operation do not work for shorter ranged weapons. I.E. If you only held superiority from 25-40km, why would you fly a pulse boat unless you didn't have skills for anything else?
I can answer why you would fly a baster boat, I can answer why you would fly an Autocannon boat. I can answer why you would fly a beam, or rail boat, and almost why you would fly an Arty boat, but not in that situation could you answer why you would fly a pulse boat.
Because they have superior tracking and damage than rails and arties, because you can switch ammo instantly to match the range at which you're engaging, because pulse are mounted on a very efficient, cost-effective gank/RR platfrom (Geddon), an a almost semi-sniper (Apoc) and on a superb passive tanked platform (Abaddon).
The problem with what you're saying here is that you make it sound like all of a sudden lasers would flat-out suck at 25km and below, when that is really not the case. They would seem less good by comparison, but the truth of the matter is that the gap is too wide as it stands.
I fly both Gallente and Amarr BS with T2 guns. Under no circumstance would I fly anything but Amarr in med-large gangs.
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Chi Quan
Perkone
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Posted - 2009.02.17 22:03:00 -
[357]
Edited by: Chi Quan on 17/02/2009 22:04:45 edited 'cause I suck at quotes
Originally by: Murina
Originally by: Chi Quan
Originally by: Murina
Linkage
do me a little favor and post that again but with drones removed
Just deduct 317 dps from the graph dude.......kinda painfully crap aint it...
280 gun dps at 20km...
I know, that was exactly what I wanted to draw the attention to. Also, Naugthyboys sheet, while still probably the best out there, does not take into account the hit probability on the drones themselves, it just adds drones dps according to bandwidth and selected type.
Originally by: Goumindong
Because in a medium sized gang against battleships that is the type of tranvsersal and sig you expect. Considering you're likely to have both larger targets(abaddon, 470) and that any movement is going to involve an MWD(+sig in excess of +speed) any turret battleship that is conscious of its transversal(I.E. not burning angentially to the enemy with your own MWD on) will have such an easy time to hit another battleship. If there aren't any battleships left then you've pretty much already won simply due to the EHPxDPS efficiency numbers that battleships bring to the fight compared to other ships. (Exception, LR HAC gang, however, the rail ship is much more able to deal with an LR HAC gang since it can actually hit out to LR HAC optimal while the pulse ship cannot). If you've already won convincingly, then comparing the strengths of the battleships is pretty inconsequential. In the same way that its pretty irrelevant to compare the efficiency of a short range gang cruiser in killing frigates. Once there are only frigates left the side that still has its short range cruisers left has pretty much won.
Off topic a bit, eh? We were talking about BLASTERS in SOLO/SMALL GANGS, you know the type of fighting they were meant to shine (not only imho, but according to the public view as well). ---- Ceterum censeo blasters need some tracking love |
Frances Ducoir
Gallente GK inc.
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Posted - 2009.02.17 23:55:00 -
[358]
Edited by: Frances Ducoir on 17/02/2009 23:55:46 Goumindong: trolling much again?
1/10 ... its getting boring...
*snip* Signiture remoted because it contained profanity - hutch |
Trader20
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Posted - 2009.02.18 00:45:00 -
[359]
For this post I will be comparing Blaster Megas and Pulse Abaddons. The PvP encounters are assuming you have your own tackle,web,painter,etc. These are only opinions so please keep the responses civilized. TY
Tracking Issue - Blaster Mega (bs 5) has better tracking then Pulse Abaddons due to Mega tracking bonus. If a Mega can't hit a target due to tracking then an Abaddon won't hit the target either. Dual webs is a good thing :) Tracking is fine
Range Issue - Well clear winner is pulses. Abaddon can effectively hit any torp/blaster/ac bs within their range. Equiping null will give you about the same range as pulses but will lower your dps substansually. Possile Solution. Increase T2 Blaster Ammo falloff bonus. This will give blaster the chance to hit within the 20km range with void but won't make them op.(Neut Blasters) Void opt:6.8 falloff:15 Null:opt:11 falloff:25 Blaster fighting in falloff is a good way to buff blaster without making them op.
DPS Issue - Pulses high cap usage justifies the amount of dps pulses pump out. Pulses have high dps but when your guns only fire for 2 min before you cap out you won't be doin any dps. Mwd will pretty much cut your pulses firin time in half b/c u will be capped out unless u fit a cap booster or 2. Also pulses deal heavy em damage which is usually the highest resist for armor tankers (which we can all agree is seen more on the battlefields) which cuts it dps even more. Blaster therm/kin is better all around for pvp. DPS is fine
Conclusion. The only thing I would change is blaster falloff range. Nothing needs to be nerfed.
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Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.02.18 02:30:00 -
[360]
Edited by: Goumindong on 18/02/2009 02:31:50 Edited by: Goumindong on 18/02/2009 02:30:39
Originally by: Murina
You were the one giving advantages pal, and a broad view of all available targets the BS may come across is the best way to balance things.
Balancing against what doesn't matter is pretty pointless. You're niggling over how resounding your success was rather than whether or not it was resounding. In the same way worth is not determined until it is tested, differences in worth that are not tested are irrelevant.
Originally by: Deschenus Maximus
The problem with what you're saying here is that you make it sound like all of a sudden lasers would flat-out suck at 25km and below, when that is really not the case. They would seem less good by comparison, but the truth of the matter is that the gap is too wide as it stands.
They largely would. Value is relative. The only advantage pulse ships have other others is that they can operate with advantages in medium ranges. Yet, rails come shockingly close to that effectiveness already. Why do blasters have to hedge them out as well as rails? Why not just use rails, a Gallente racial weapon?
You do realize that if you make blasters gang weapons, that ships within a gang will no longer be vulnerable to being piked off by smaller and faster ships right?(at least in the long term, as they migrated towards blasters and away from rails and pulse)
Originally by: Chi Quan
Off topic a bit, eh? We were talking about BLASTERS in SOLO/SMALL GANGS, you know the type of fighting they were meant to shine in (not only imho, but according to the public view as well).
That is fine, but that is not what Murina is complaining about. Solo/small gang, the blaster ship is the clear winner. Its the only one that fields the necessary equipment(other than the much lower damage Tempest, which actually fields a bit more) to get the job done. Its the only one that can hold its own if its support bites it, its the only one that can run a reasonable tank for an entire engagement.(solo/small gang repping tanks > EHP tanks). It does this all with the best damage types to hit a variety of enemies(both other solo tanks and gang tanks, where minmatar are weak against gang shield tanks), the highest tracking(or equal enough to the highest, the differences are very tiny) and one of the fastest and most agile hulls in the game.
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