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Dirk Magnum
Royal Hiigaran Navy
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Posted - 2009.02.09 17:00:00 -
[91]
Originally by: Andrest Disch
Originally by: Caiman Graystock here's how it looks in game http://dl.eve-files.com/media/0902/2009.02.09.16.26.05.jpg
This, is how not to do it.
Exactly what I was thinking. Do they even charge a fee, ISK or otherwise, for this service?
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Andrest Disch
Amarr Letiferi Praedones
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Posted - 2009.02.09 17:02:00 -
[92]
Originally by: Dirk Magnum
Originally by: Andrest Disch
Originally by: Caiman Graystock here's how it looks in game http://dl.eve-files.com/media/0902/2009.02.09.16.26.05.jpg
This, is how not to do it.
Exactly what I was thinking. Do they even charge a fee, ISK or otherwise, for this service?
Here it says that you can do it twice for free atleast, not sure after that.
Welp, atleast this'll make losing SP easier with t3. I guess. |
Ris Dnalor
Minmatar Ex Cruoris Libertas
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Posted - 2009.02.10 05:18:00 -
[93]
I wonder how many of CCP's current staff was even around in 2003. Those that weren't should talk to somebody who was. We had to WORK to get where we are, and that's not true anymore. Not even ****ing close.
That's fine, I don't wish the work on anyone. It's a game, after all. It should never have been work in the first place. However, CCP should not diminish what we achieved with that work. We stuck with them when a whole lot of people bailed. We are the reason EVE is still here.
The edge most of us have now is that we can be more generalized than some of the newer players. We have that extra training time. They already took away the first 800,000 skillpoints ( which was a couple months or more of training back in the day ), and now with this attribute swapping crap, they're taking away one helluva lot more. With proper planning someone can now train in less than 3 years what took me 6.
That's ****. It's not o.k. Go ahead, **** on us some more, CCP... why stop here? Maybe we're just a reminder of days gone by that you want to get rid of. Sure feels like it.
---
Go ahead, ask for my stuffs. I need a target or two to vent on. Better yet, i'll put some stuffs in my cargo hold and you can try to come and take it. Be sure to bring your ****ari bonus ship and newb FW mob with ya.
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Exolun
Imperium Technologies Sangre Azul
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Posted - 2009.02.10 05:40:00 -
[94]
Quote: I wonder how many of CCP's current staff was even around in 2003. Those that weren't should talk to somebody who was. We had to WORK to get where we are, and that's not true anymore. Not even ****ing close.
That's fine, I don't wish the work on anyone. It's a game, after all. It should never have been work in the first place. However, CCP should not diminish what we achieved with that work. We stuck with them when a whole lot of people bailed. We are the reason EVE is still here.
The edge most of us have now is that we can be more generalized than some of the newer players. We have that extra training time. They already took away the first 800,000 skillpoints ( which was a couple months or more of training back in the day ), and now with this attribute swapping crap, they're taking away one helluva lot more. With proper planning someone can now train in less than 3 years what took me 6.
That's ****. It's not o.k. Go ahead, **** on us some more, CCP... why stop here? Maybe we're just a reminder of days gone by that you want to get rid of. Sure feels like it.
CCP did not make this decision with the feelings of older characters in mind. This decision was made with the intent to allow players who made a poor decision at the start of the game to correct their mistake once they learn more about how they are going to play the game and what attributes best suit their playstyle. To want everyone who chose wrongly to have to suffer months of time wasted just because you had to before the game was as polished as it is now is extremely shallow.
One of the primary complaints of people who I try to introduce to the game is that they "can never catch up". I have no sympathy for any 2003 characters who are complaining, most of whom can fly multiple types of capital ships and an armada of of subcapitals. So what if new players can train to that level in half the time? They're still going to be playing catch up for the entirety of their Eve career.
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Ris Dnalor
Minmatar Ex Cruoris Libertas
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Posted - 2009.02.10 05:48:00 -
[95]
Originally by: Exolun CCP did not make this decision with the feelings of older characters in mind. This decision was made with the intent to allow players who made a poor decision at the start of the game to correct their mistake once they learn more about how they are going to play the game and what attributes best suit their playstyle. To want everyone who chose wrongly to have to suffer months of time wasted just because you had to before the game was as polished as it is now is extremely shallow.
this doesn't help people who made that mistake 6 years ago... it shoves it in their face and tells them that even though it was "tough cookies, deal with it or re-roll", that some how the Shatari-lings that will be joining will never have to live with their "mistakes". This helps noobs, not oldsters.
Quote:
One of the primary complaints of people who I try to introduce to the game is that they "can never catch up". I have no sympathy for any 2003 characters who are complaining, most of whom can fly multiple types of capital ships and an armada of of subcapitals. So what if new players can train to that level in half the time? They're still going to be playing catch up for the entirety of their Eve career.
Well I don't want your sympathy. I want CCP to find a way to accomplish what they want to accomplish without de-valuing what we've done the hard way. It's not o.k. to make the same task take half the time. Not unless they allow us to go back and adjust our skill points accordingly. I could have another 90m skillpoints under this current system if it were in place 6 years ago. Meh, whatever. I'm hopelessly outnubmered for sure. I just hope CCP reconsiders and throws us old folk a bone. We've been loyal to them for a long time... and this treatment sucks ass.
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Yeshua Christ
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Posted - 2009.02.10 05:52:00 -
[96]
Originally by: Ris Dnalor
Originally by: Exolun CCP did not make this decision with the feelings of older characters in mind. This decision was made with the intent to allow players who made a poor decision at the start of the game to correct their mistake once they learn more about how they are going to play the game and what attributes best suit their playstyle. To want everyone who chose wrongly to have to suffer months of time wasted just because you had to before the game was as polished as it is now is extremely shallow.
this doesn't help people who made that mistake 6 years ago... it shoves it in their face and tells them that even though it was "tough cookies, deal with it or re-roll", that some how the Shatari-lings that will be joining will never have to live with their "mistakes". This helps noobs, not oldsters.
Quote:
One of the primary complaints of people who I try to introduce to the game is that they "can never catch up". I have no sympathy for any 2003 characters who are complaining, most of whom can fly multiple types of capital ships and an armada of of subcapitals. So what if new players can train to that level in half the time? They're still going to be playing catch up for the entirety of their Eve career.
Well I don't want your sympathy. I want CCP to find a way to accomplish what they want to accomplish without de-valuing what we've done the hard way. It's not o.k. to make the same task take half the time. Not unless they allow us to go back and adjust our skill points accordingly. I could have another 90m skillpoints under this current system if it were in place 6 years ago. Meh, whatever. I'm hopelessly outnubmered for sure. I just hope CCP reconsiders and throws us old folk a bone. We've been loyal to them for a long time... and this treatment sucks ass.
Waaaah ****ing waaaaah. This game is changing adapt or ****ing die. FFS this expansion is generating awesome amounts of tears. If I wasn't already full from this feast of cries I'd say cry some more.
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Ris Dnalor
Minmatar Ex Cruoris Libertas
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Posted - 2009.02.10 06:02:00 -
[97]
Edited by: Ris Dnalor on 10/02/2009 06:02:48
Originally by: Yeshua Christ Waaaah ****ing waaaaah. This game is changing adapt or ****ing die. FFS this expansion is generating awesome amounts of tears. If I wasn't already full from this feast of cries I'd say cry some more.
LOL. Thanks for the chuckle. Oh? You really thought you could tell me something about adapting that I didn't already know by now? Sorry for laughing... I thought you were kidding :)
/emote pats Jesus on the head.
Go, now, be a good lad, and paint the fence, eh? |
Yeshua Christ
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Posted - 2009.02.10 06:14:00 -
[98]
Originally by: Ris Dnalor Edited by: Ris Dnalor on 10/02/2009 06:02:48
Originally by: Yeshua Christ Waaaah ****ing waaaaah. This game is changing adapt or ****ing die. FFS this expansion is generating awesome amounts of tears. If I wasn't already full from this feast of cries I'd say cry some more.
LOL. Thanks for the chuckle. Oh? You really thought you could tell me something about adapting that I didn't already know by now? Sorry for laughing... I thought you were kidding :)
/emote pats Jesus on the head.
Go, now, be a good lad, and paint the fence, eh?
Ouch my e-peen you broke it! Yes obviously these whines are serious business! I can't help but point out the sudden swing from all the adapt or die threads from Quantum Reboot to the now massive amount of crying over losing SP and attribute respecs ruining Eve. Get over it.
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ShadowGod56
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Posted - 2009.02.10 06:27:00 -
[99]
yay i get to fix my ******ed attributes i picked when i first started this game \o/
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Mr Hood
Amarr Domination. Force Of Evil
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Posted - 2009.02.10 22:37:00 -
[100]
Edited by: Mr Hood on 10/02/2009 22:37:55 crap idea
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bff Jill
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Posted - 2009.02.10 22:47:00 -
[101]
A one time respec is not a bad idea.
Now a new character will be encouraged even harder to spend lots of time training up instead of playing the game.
Respec to 15 int 9 memory first and spend 6 months training up all fitting skills before you train a single perception based skill
They should give you one respec and that's it. it should have a big warning on it explaining that attributes are kind of important and that this is your one chance to corect anything stupid you did as a newbie.
Also, every time a new expansion comes out, since new skills may come out or somthing, they should let people move maybe, 2 of their attribute points, to compensate for the new skills that came out. That would be reasonable i think.
It used to be you were forced to decide about your atributes, you could be good at certain things, or a generalist in everything. Now there will be no generalists, everyone will have min/maxed atributes and they will just train only skills that coraspond to those, and then after 6 months switch atributes around again and train different kinds of skills.
That doesnt make things easier on newbies ccp, newbies need to train up lots of skills. Doing it this way you are ensuring that they will have to train up those initial fitting skills/basic spaceship command skills slower than someone who can afford to just ditch all but two of their stats and pump out SPs.
bad idea CCP. Bad idea.
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Bimjo
Caldari Domination. Force Of Evil
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Posted - 2009.02.10 22:56:00 -
[102]
excellent idea and easy to use interface(unlike the jpg fanboys, I tried it just now) ====================
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Astarte Nosferatu
Abrivianius Manufacturing Corporation
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Posted - 2009.02.10 23:01:00 -
[103]
This idea sucks so bad I have no words to describe it.
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5th of Februari 2009: Victory over BoB Day. |
bff Jill
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Posted - 2009.02.10 23:09:00 -
[104]
Maybe what they could do is combine their functionality to double training time for new characters into a method to discourage this sort of thing.
Do this CCP:
First respec : total free and great and everything
Second respec : Next one million skillpoints train at half speed
Third respec : Next 1.5 million skillpoints train at half speed
Fourth and all additional respecs : Next 2mil skillpoints train at half speed
What this does is effectively put a skillpoint 'cost' to respecing. This will prevent people from just respecing every 6 months to stack the attributes one way so they can train at max speed, then respec and stack them another way to train other skills up
Since the half speed thing, effectively you 'spend' 500k skillpoints for your second respec, 750k for your third, and 1 mil for all additional respecs.
Since you train around ~1mil a month give or take, this effectively means that you need to sacrifice 1 months training every 6 months if you want to respec every 6 months. Im not sure the numbers exactly, but i would bet that this would remove the benefit of min/maxing such as this, or at least make it a fairly minimal advantage. In this way you will only stat respec if you are serious about wanting to respec your stats.
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FOl2TY8
Revolutionary United Front Paxton Federation
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Posted - 2009.02.10 23:17:00 -
[105]
I really don't get what everyone is complaining about. I will get to shift my wasted charisma attributes to perception and willpower. I could care less what other players do. How does this hurt me? ---------- The six paths and the four lives.... |
bff Jill
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Posted - 2009.02.10 23:23:00 -
[106]
Originally by: FOl2TY8 I really don't get what everyone is complaining about. I will get to shift my wasted charisma attributes to perception and willpower. I could care less what other players do. How does this hurt me?
Because now everyone who pays attention and games the system will be training skillpoints at around ~125% the rate you, who just want decent stats, will.
They will also spec into maxed charisma eventually to quickly train up all leadership skills to maximum, so they can command ship.
Every skill they train, will have the absolute perfect attribute spread for training them.
But you? You will just be sitting there with 'decent' stats, forever falling behind.
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Armoured C
Gallente Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2009.02.10 23:26:00 -
[107]
i think it could that old carebears can map there skill for piracy =)
This week EvE Life: Wormhole Wars 01/Feb
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FOl2TY8
Revolutionary United Front Paxton Federation
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Posted - 2009.02.10 23:28:00 -
[108]
Originally by: bff Jill
Originally by: FOl2TY8 I really don't get what everyone is complaining about. I will get to shift my wasted charisma attributes to perception and willpower. I could care less what other players do. How does this hurt me?
Because now everyone who pays attention and games the system will be training skillpoints at around ~125% the rate you, who just want decent stats, will.
They will also spec into maxed charisma eventually to quickly train up all leadership skills to maximum, so they can command ship.
Every skill they train, will have the absolute perfect attribute spread for training them.
But you? You will just be sitting there with 'decent' stats, forever falling behind.
If I can utilize the training system to the same ends as everyone else I still fail to see how this negatively affects me. ---------- The six paths and the four lives.... |
bff Jill
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Posted - 2009.02.10 23:31:00 -
[109]
Originally by: FOl2TY8
Originally by: bff Jill
Originally by: FOl2TY8 I really don't get what everyone is complaining about. I will get to shift my wasted charisma attributes to perception and willpower. I could care less what other players do. How does this hurt me?
Because now everyone who pays attention and games the system will be training skillpoints at around ~125% the rate you, who just want decent stats, will.
They will also spec into maxed charisma eventually to quickly train up all leadership skills to maximum, so they can command ship.
Every skill they train, will have the absolute perfect attribute spread for training them.
But you? You will just be sitting there with 'decent' stats, forever falling behind.
If I can utilize the training system to the same ends as everyone else I still fail to see how this negatively affects me.
Because it makes the game more tedious, not to mention the entire attribute system now serves no purpose whatsoever because everyone will be training at max speed anyway. The only thing it does is serve to punish players that do not play within with a certain strict methodology.
And again, new players will have to wait even longer before they can do anything because now they would be stupid to start training up perc/willpower skills until they have 6 months of int/mem skills trained.
Hell you know what. If this system is confirmed as going through, im going to make a bunch of alts and abuse the hell out of it. Its going to be total hell for new players though, and if i was not already used to just loging in to change my skillpoints, and actually wanted to actively play eve, i would quit when this went live.
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CrazyChinchilla
Ridgeline Industries
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Posted - 2009.02.10 23:33:00 -
[110]
Guys, you will get the advantage everyone else gets, whats the problem? Noobies still won't have all the learning skills you have trained, thus they will either have lower specs to shift around or still have less than you if it is only 5 that they can stack one way or the other because yet again, you have +5 implants and odds are the newbs do not. Plus people are gonna feel mighty dumb if you can stack all attributes points onto one attribute when they think they are gonna train for gunnery for 6 months and then realize hey, maybe a couple social skills would give me a couple extra bucks. Or man, I wish I could make a fleet but I have no leadership skills.
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Daan Sai
Polytrope
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Posted - 2009.02.10 23:37:00 -
[111]
The only possible case that could be justified is a once in the char lifetime change, limited, to correct bad mistakes made in ignorance during char generation. Anything else undermines individuality, identity and the idea of genuine *consequences* for your choices.
Mini-maxing metagamers will exploit this. Leadership skill based on charisma for example will be devalued as the folks that chose will/perc max to start with to fight well, get to dump them when the skills are in, and get to boost their charisma for 6 months and then revert again.
Once you have a skill level, your attributes have *No Effect*, so you can drop the attribute once you are trained. This is the fundamental flaw in repeated respeccing in the Eve system.
If the skill bonuses included a contribution from your current attributes, ie if you drop perception your flying gets worse, then there'd be some balance, but now I have navigation and evasive maneuvers V I can go blind (perc 3) and still fly as well as the best pilots...
This (repeated respeccing, with no skill loss once obtained even if the primary attribute drops later) is a very poor game design idea.
Please don't allow repeated respeccing, and only allow one off respeccing in remedial cases via GM petitions.
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Wameiri Rahai
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Posted - 2009.02.10 23:39:00 -
[112]
Edited by: Wameiri Rahai on 10/02/2009 23:41:32 Edited by: Wameiri Rahai on 10/02/2009 23:40:06
Originally by: FOl2TY8 I really don't get what everyone is complaining about. I will get to shift my wasted charisma attributes to perception and willpower. I could care less what other players do. How does this hurt me?
it will not affect the low single account characters as much as the others as they will try to balance their attributes mostly to attain functionality. the others will be able to stack attributes to maximize their train potential and will result in players being able to fast track up the skill levels with potential negative effects.
one potential negative effect will be the isk value of character, but it will probably affect the lower skillpoint than the higher skillpoint characters.
just personally think the system is fine and allowing a ONLY ONE TIME reallocation to allow people to fix attributes that were ignorantly placed when starting out (charisma sounded important for my first character in my first and only mmo ).
edit...edit: are we going to be allowed to change the avatar at least two times a year when ambulation hits? first time I get poded, going to go from a nice face to a sad face . face!
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FOl2TY8
Revolutionary United Front Paxton Federation
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Posted - 2009.02.10 23:41:00 -
[113]
Edited by: FOl2TY8 on 10/02/2009 23:42:15
Originally by: bff Jill
Because it makes the game more tedious, not to mention the entire attribute system now serves no purpose whatsoever because everyone will be training at max speed anyway. The only thing it does is serve to punish players that do not play within with a certain strict methodology.
When I first started I didn't do any research and put applied attributes to my charisma. I have been "punished" for my decision ever since. So from where I am standing you either get punished by having to deal with your crappy decisions for your entire eve career or you get punished for not changing your base attributes twice a year. However I don't think changing your attributes twice a year will be that "tedious". Not compared to grinding SP in other MMO's at least. Unless of course they force you to do something for 6 hours THEN you can change your attributes.
Originally by: bff Jill And again, new players will have to wait even longer before they can do anything because now they would be stupid to start training up perc/willpower skills until they have 6 months of int/mem skills trained.
This is from your perspective, for new players they won't be accustomed to the way it is now so they will be missing nothing. It is the same risk/reward as it always was in my opinion. Do you spend time training skills that pay off in the long run or do you do fun skills early on?
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Alora Venoda
GalTech Whiskey Creek Alliance
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Posted - 2009.02.10 23:46:00 -
[114]
"you noobs have it so easy now days... back when i was a noob... blah blah... 15 miles in the snow uphill while barefoot."
progress is a part of life. adapt, move on, enjoy the modern conveniences.
don't worry, not everyone will min-max their attributes at 100% efficiency (esp noobs). even though i'm sure EVEMON will help make it much easier to do so.
once every 6 months is fine. that's a long time, but it's not forever like the current system... being stuck with whatever attribs we picked as noobs.
most of the min-max players are already all the same: Achura. the statistics alone are an indicator something is out of balance. this feature will finally increase racial diversity in EVE. |
bff Jill
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Posted - 2009.02.11 00:12:00 -
[115]
Originally by: FOl2TY8 Do you spend time training skills that pay off in the long run or do you do fun skills early on?
I play an mmo that doesnt make me chose between having fun now but being gimped, or sitting for half a year.
Things are bad enough the way they are now with learning skills, (ive quit eve because of them in the past) most people agree that learning skills were a pretty bad idea. Even CCP thinks so.
This new system is more or less exactly what learning skills are, only much worse. It more or less extends the time you must wait before 'playing' even further. And the rewards of doing it the right way are even better now than not training learning skills up that much, so its even MORE important that you play the system.
But don't mind me. I don't actually care. In fact i am looking forward to it. Ill be able to trian up a carebear mining alt, or an industrialist, or a trader, much faster now than i ever could have before! What this will do however, is make life even WORSE on new players (particularly new combat players that cant stick to a certain set of attributes primarily). While CCP may get extra money from my new alt i make after this change, im sure they will drive plenty of sensible newbies that don't want to wait 8 months before they can start playing to some other mmo. Its exactly what i would do if i did not have the money to plop down +5 implants on alts just to 'see how many skillpoints i can gain in one years time with this new system) right off the bat, and don't actually need skills to do anything in eve, because i spend all my time actually interacting with the game being a forum troll. |
Armoured C
Gallente Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2009.02.11 00:39:00 -
[116]
i think we should let the noobs have this, as the learning curve was hard enough for us when we started, i all for having the noobs have a early start
This week EvE Life: Wormhole Wars 01/Feb
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Dani SP
Rupture Farms Mining
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Posted - 2009.02.11 00:42:00 -
[117]
Originally by: Ris Dnalor I wonder how many of CCP's current staff was even around in 2003. Those that weren't should talk to somebody who was. We had to WORK to get where we are, and that's not true anymore. Not even ****ing close.
That's fine, I don't wish the work on anyone. It's a game, after all. It should never have been work in the first place. However, CCP should not diminish what we achieved with that work. We stuck with them when a whole lot of people bailed. We are the reason EVE is still here.
The edge most of us have now is that we can be more generalized than some of the newer players. We have that extra training time. They already took away the first 800,000 skillpoints ( which was a couple months or more of training back in the day ), and now with this attribute swapping crap, they're taking away one helluva lot more. With proper planning someone can now train in less than 3 years what took me 6.
That's ****. It's not o.k. Go ahead, **** on us some more, CCP... why stop here? Maybe we're just a reminder of days gone by that you want to get rid of. Sure feels like it.
---
Go ahead, ask for my stuffs. I need a target or two to vent on. Better yet, i'll put some stuffs in my cargo hold and you can try to come and take it. Be sure to bring your ****ari bonus ship and newb FW mob with ya.
Just 1 word: ATARI
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bff Jill
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Posted - 2009.02.11 00:45:00 -
[118]
Originally by: Armoured C i think we should let the noobs have this, as the learning curve was hard enough for us when we started, i all for having the noobs have a early start
This is not going to help newbies, its going to hurt them because newbies need to train up a lot of different skills requiring different attributes.
This will help older players that can already 'play' and thus can afford to spend 6+months training only perc/will skills
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Valorous Bob
Slade Gravelpit Inc.
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Posted - 2009.02.11 00:46:00 -
[119]
Originally by: Akita T
Fake P.S. : Of course, I'll bet it's just "redistribute your 5 custom skillpoints", HAH !
Real P.S. : As much as I'll love the benefits I'll be reaping, I have to admit the idea is "FAILSAUCE".
Yeah i doubt they'll let us redistribute all our points, and i agree this is a dumb idea. People should just learn to work with wut their Chars have, or make a new one if its a huge deal.
Oh and Akita, i think i accidentally clicked "report" instead of quote the first time... sorry. _______________________________________________
Originally by: Faekurias Edited by: Faekurias on 12/11/2008 18:25:39 What, you get to write **** now? Sweet!
Edit: I see what you did there |
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