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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 22 post(s) |
Rika I
Caldari Tomoe Laboratories Celestial Imperative
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Posted - 2009.02.12 19:36:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Akira Kurosaw Maybe some of you just want the glory days of T2 bpo monopoly back, the days when hac's where sold for +200mill because only a select few could build them
There is a big difference between a monopoly based on skills and the old monopoly based on the lotto. In one, people can work their way into it while in the other, they could never get into it.
----------------------------- Rika, the Uber Researcher! |
Kabeil Blackdawn
The Shadow Order New Eden Research
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Posted - 2009.02.12 19:52:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Rika I
Originally by: Akira Kurosaw Maybe some of you just want the glory days of T2 bpo monopoly back, the days when hac's where sold for +200mill because only a select few could build them
There is a big difference between a monopoly based on skills and the old monopoly based on the lotto. In one, people can work their way into it while in the other, they could never get into it.
As far as skills, like their is specialization in pvp and combat, their should be specialization in industry. I'm all for higher skill requirement so that not everyone can make any kind of t3 ship. Racial ship engineering V would separate different races. Cruiser construction V would help differentiate when other t3 class are invented. Maybe building subsystem could need racial ship engineering V and building frames Cruiser construction V and racial ship eng IV.
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Steve Thomas
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Posted - 2009.02.12 20:03:00 -
[63]
Originally by: CCP Chronotis I am also interested in your opinions on the concept itself and not just the numbers balancing. Generally the nature of wormhole space (there is so much of it) means the resources will be common and diffusely gathered and returned to the market. The 3 step process is overall easier than T2 but wormhole op logistics could potentially make it a much more difficult combined with the amount of materials needed to manufacture a complete ship.
CHrontis the BIG problem right now is that the Scanning system (unless you have completly replaced it since I last loged in) is a total FAILURE.
Untill thats resolved it dosnt matter if theirs 1 Wspace system or 10,000,000,000,000,000 with each one filled wall to wall with Jetcans full of high value minerals modules and beautiful buxom nymphomaniacle babes smeared with Branston pickle(sorry I skiped lunch) if noone can be arsed to use the brokenass crap that is the new scanning system.
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Tharrn
Amarr Epitoth Fleetyards Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2009.02.12 20:12:00 -
[64]
It's better than the old system tbh. Staring at progress bars for hours was neither fun nor involving. If you don't want to do it - fine, more T3 goodies for me :P
So did I get that right that Gas Harvesters and skillbooks will be rewards from the existing pirate factions? That raises the question: why? Why can't the BPCs and skillbooks just drop from hacking sites in W-space?
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Let's agree to respect each others views, no matter how wrong yours may be. |
El'essar Viocragh
Minmatar Meltdown Luftfahrttechnik
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Posted - 2009.02.12 20:21:00 -
[65]
Edited by: El''essar Viocragh on 12/02/2009 20:22:26
Originally by: Akira Kurosaw it half assed to say producer take 2 month to be able to build everything.
I think you veiw of a producer is rather convoluted or maybe thats just me cause i my eye a producer is someone that can take something all the way from bpo to finised T2 product, which requierd a lot of skills.
What you are refering to is a builder alt, someone with just the basic science skills for building tiem X and the requied industry skill at 5.
You include Invention. Granted, that does take quite some skilltime.
But you don't have to invent yourself. Most inventors can easily output more t2 bpcs than they can produce themselves.
And while "2 months to build everything" may be exaggerated, it only really takes one rank 3 skill to be competitive in the T1 market (well, ship market). And I've just wiggled with EveMon a bit. A character can have 9 build slots and build Vagabonds 61 days 2 hours after creation. Add in another probably 4-5 days and he can build all the t2 components needed for the Vagabond too. By the nature of the production system in Eve, this character has perfected his profession with regards to Vagabonds. There is no better building. I'd like to haer the outcry (from myself too I have to admit) if a 2 month char could fly a HAC with perfect skills in pvp.
Quote: Maybe some of you just want the glory days of T2 bpo monopoly back, the days when hac's where sold for +200mill because only a select few could build them
Dunno if I would want it back. I started playing not too long before invention kicked off big time, so I have no significant experience of that time period.
A high skill entry barrier market is however something entirely different than an ungodly amount of luck entry barrier market. And more easily achieved than a high isk entry barrier market like capital construction right now - all you need is patience.
[Edit] @Tharrn: because that is where they are seeded right now already. Initially they came from the drug radar cosmos plexes only, but that limited their availability too much. -- [17:47] <Mephysto> its dead, jim |
Steve Thomas
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Posted - 2009.02.12 20:24:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Tharrn It's better than the old system tbh. Staring at progress bars for hours was neither fun nor involving. If you don't want to do it - fine, more T3 goodies for me :P
So did I get that right that Gas Harvesters and skillbooks will be rewards from the existing pirate factions? That raises the question: why? Why can't the BPCs and skillbooks just drop from hacking sites in W-space?
Well if it actualy worked that would be one thing. as it is im finding that a lot of the results im getting are either non existant. (Ie you go to the location and nothing is there, reset all of your probes and get a confirmation hit indicating that yes you are EXACTLY where it says the hit is and there is still nothing there) or for some reason are not where the probes say the result should be(Bascialy its about 20-30 min flighttime w a nano/mwd straight down or straight up from where I land, and yes I do space my probes offplane, if you can visualise the corners of a D4 one probe is on the same plane as me, the others would be in diferent corners up down and lateraly)
Like I said they may have solved this (or I may be screwing something up) but its still annoying
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Paranoid MindZ
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Posted - 2009.02.12 21:20:00 -
[67]
It will make this expansion another "large groups only expansion".
Was going to post something similar. As with all low and deep 0.0 assests, the major alliances move in and dominate it pushing the remaining 99.98% of Eve out and unable to access them. Seems everything has been based on releasing to "controlled" space where as the major un-touched areas (Crap low sec space and some empire touching 0.0) gets more Veldspar. I originally concieved the thought of playing Eve to be able to enjoy some of the things the Over sized POS bowling alliances brag about and hoard but found out if I even wanted to look upon an Arkonor roid I must submit to being treated like a used tampon in one of the mega alliances.
How and what if any (doubtful) are the plans to allow access to more diverse items in Eve to the NPC and solo players? If there isnt a thought placed into fixing this gross imbalance 2 things will happen..... 1: Mega alliances will control the flow of items didctating the market prices to fit thier needs, thus making it impossible for anyone not associated with them unable to enjoy the expanded game play that THEY are paying for. T3 ships what?? Dont think so 2: There will never be a chance in hell for a corp or even small alliance to ever take space other then the crap regions that are no better then systems like Todaki. Thought the idea was to allow open markets and player based decisions but seems its a restricted market (mega alliance controlled) and thier decisions. Take the reactions hack.....Mega alliances held most the ability to make them and the moons needed to mine....Of course that still was not enough...HAX. Now market is empty as the mega trillionaires are buying it all on spot before it can even be seen.
Without a power rebalance or a more expanded deployment, this will be no differnt then playing the same ole game as before.
Give us the chance they all have daily. Show us some favortism for once. Let us play in the sun a few days and actually be able to say "yeah i mined 10 mercoxit roids today". Other then that we all will just be Veldspar miners and will never be able to build nothing without submitting.
Worm Holes??? Gas Clouds?? Will be a mega alliance picnic the seconds they are discovered.
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Kayn Otar
Samurai Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.02.12 21:46:00 -
[68]
Edited by: Kayn Otar on 12/02/2009 21:47:43 Please Reduce POS Requirements
Originally by: CCP Chronotis
- Hybrid Polymers are made from reacting fullerenes with regular minerals using a new reactor/silo
- Hybrid Components are manufactured from polymers and Sleeper Salvage in a component assembly array or assembly line
- Subsystems and hulls are manufactured from hybrid components in a new subsystem assembly array or outpost assembly lines
- Subsystem and hull blueprints are reverse engineered from ancient relics. Reverse engineering works in a similar way to invention does. Reverse engineering research lines are available in a new experimental laboratory mobile lab or outpost research lines
Feedback is most welcome!
So we have a three (and a half) step process. Awesome. Step 1 - POS only. Fine, makes sense in a way. Similar to T2.
Step 2 - NPC Station OK. Good, similar to T2 components.
Setp 2.5 - Reverse Engineering, POS Only. Eh? All other research can be done in a station; are mobile laboratories somehow more advanced than station labs? You should be able to use existing Invention labs for this, there is no shortage of them and they serve a similar purpose. No need to add unnecessary complexity.
Step 3 - POS only. What?! I can build the components in a station but I have to take them back to a POS to assemble them into subsystems? This stage, especially, should be available in stations. By this stage the amount of effort put into the process is so great and the components so valuable that keeping them in a POS for days or weeks would be a huge risk. I'm afraid that if this stays, subsystems would only be created (with any frequency) in deep alliance space, where the risk is lower and balances the reward.
-edit- Grammar
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Cailais
Amarr 0utbreak KrautbreaK
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Posted - 2009.02.12 21:53:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Kravek Edited by: Kravek on 12/02/2009 18:59:43
Originally by: Cailais
Avoid these pitfalls (especially point '1') and T3 production should be ok and wont become a failed feature like combat boosters.
Boosters production is not "failed feature".
It is very lucrative... if you know how to carry out entire operation. This rule will apply too T3 production for sure.
Im talking really about how commonly adopted the feature is. Now clearly you have managed to find a market and make some ISK from it - and all power to you, but I think you'll agree your market isn't all that massive, boosters just aren't that commonly used or indeed available. (I've manufactured and traded them myself so I am speaking from a degree of experience).
Not, to an extent thats fine, for boosters, and probably ideal for yourself as your now a specialist in that field. But with T3 ships we really aught to be seeing quite a few of these ships used - if only for the man hours that has been invested by CCP in doing the art work, models and so forth in producing both them, and the W-Hole system.
So if T3 is only as common as booster use amongst the player base, I thin CCP will have to revisit it.
C.
Originally by: Capa So if you wake up one morning and it's a particularly beautiful day, you'll know we made it.
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Kabeil Blackdawn
The Shadow Order New Eden Research
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Posted - 2009.02.12 22:11:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Paranoid MindZ
Worm Holes??? Gas Clouds?? Will be a mega alliance picnic the seconds they are discovered.
What makes you say that? I think that WH-space is the best way to have mostly uncontrolable space without doing instancing for each wormhole. Its not like big alliance will send all their pilots to guard WH-space. To chaotic to move gang around. Their might be a couple of corp that completely move to one WH system and stay there, but I don't think that will be common. Most people will want to take the same WH they took to get in, so as to not get lost.
As for manufacturing, its true that their is a lot of pos usage. Do we know if its only the poses needed for the reaction of gas into polymer that will require to be in low sec? Seem to recall seeing that somewhere...
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Kravek
Lamb Federation Navy C0VEN
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Posted - 2009.02.12 22:16:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Cailais
So if T3 is only as common as booster use amongst the player base, I thin CCP will have to revisit it.
Ofc you are right. I see your point now.
Im sure that CCP will ensure that T3 production will be balanced. I cannot imagine that T3 ships will be used by so small group of people. Even if they will be not cheap.
Boosters are boosters... not many knows how useful they are. But we talking about entire new line of ships. They wont vanish in beloved void
Yours friendly Combat Boosters supplier!
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Tharrn
Amarr Epitoth Fleetyards Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2009.02.12 23:00:00 -
[72]
Hmm... I think small corps stand a very good chance to get their share of the resources in W-Space - I know plenty of Empire systems that are barely used. Find a wormhole there and you'll have your private playground unless the system happens to be connected to somewhere else.
In fact I think all the whining is totally premature as we haven't even tested wormholes and W-space. Pre-whining must be related to pre-nerfing :P
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Let's agree to respect each others views, no matter how wrong yours may be. |
Sendinal Cortere
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Posted - 2009.02.12 23:14:00 -
[73]
Originally by: CCP Chronotis
- Hybrid Polymers are made from reacting fullerenes (new types of gas found in wormhole space) with regular minerals using a new reactor/silo
moon minerals or 'roid minerals
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Louella Dougans
Amarr Sovereign Hospitaller Order of Saint Katherine
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Posted - 2009.02.12 23:17:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Sendinal Cortere
Originally by: CCP Chronotis
- Hybrid Polymers are made from reacting fullerenes (new types of gas found in wormhole space) with regular minerals using a new reactor/silo
moon minerals or 'roid minerals
minerals from asteroids. Zydrine and such, yes.
Mother used to disapprove of my lifestyle |
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CCP Chronotis
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Posted - 2009.02.12 23:54:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Sendinal Cortere
Originally by: CCP Chronotis
- Hybrid Polymers are made from reacting fullerenes (new types of gas found in wormhole space) with regular minerals using a new reactor/silo
moon minerals or 'roid minerals
Asteroid minerals in the current implementation. Tech III is a new branch of tech so not dependent on existing resources besides minerals and of course players time. Personally I call it "hybrid tech" as its a combination of ancient and current technology but that is Chronotis's own terminology as calling it tech III can be confusing.
General Comments on the use of starbases and low sec
There is currently only one activity which requires low sec operation and that is the polymer reactions. The subsystem assembly array and experimental laboratory can be anchored in high sec, the components can be made anywhere other components are made, so if you wish to remain in high sec then you have a large range of possibilities in getting a slice of the "hybrid tech/tech III" pie. From the resource gathering phase and organising wormhole ops after discovering a nearby wormhole to buying materials of the market and processing them in reactors to building the final subsystems and hulls.
The nature of wormhole space (the fact there is so many wormhole systems) and the main resource motivation to go there other than ISK and asteroid ore is the fullerenes, sleeper salvage and reverse engineering components. It may well be even possible to dwell within wormhole space which will be interesting and pretty cool almost having a system to yourself.
All in all, I would say what you have is a great opportunity to try something entirely new and access areas many of you consider out of reach as is the proverbial daunting wall of low and null sec entrances.
Edit - please keep this thread to feedback on Tech 3 production and not devolve into low sec/ resource distribution debate as we need to keep this thread focused but I wanted to briefly comment on it! (Bad Chronotis! )
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Erovicious
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Posted - 2009.02.13 00:01:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Boma Airaken Are you ****ing serious? Or do I start with how much of an utter ***** you are for not even trying? What are you contributing to the cluster**** that is currently lowsec?
Boy have I been shown the light by an adolescent that swears to attempt to give a post some semblance of validity. Bravo!
The rest of your diatribe isn't even worth commenting on.
Back to the subject at hand. We've read many posts that have sent a very clear request that T3 be something new and separate from the POS grind and potential moon-material monopoly we have today. There are others in this thread that think the same, or similar.
With further contemplation, I believe I would be perfectly satisfied if the entire process for creating them required W-Space. Now that would be something unique and challenging. With the announcement of the skill point/symbiotic relationship between the pilot and the ship, it brings on an even more complex and unique approach - and thematic.
I think many of us hoped for something *completely* unique in T3, separated in everyway from the existing framework (other than balance of course). You're close, and I think its still possible.
One final thought.
Originally by: Boma Airaken Put up or shut up.
Pretty sure my daddy can beat up your daddy! Neiner! Neiner! Rofl. Grow up.
*Ero*
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Counterparty
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Posted - 2009.02.13 00:55:00 -
[77]
Originally by: CCP Chronotis fullerenes fullerenes
/me expects endless confusion with Fullerides.
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Shadow's Caress
Dark Skullz Empire Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2009.02.13 03:44:00 -
[78]
Edited by: Shadow''s Caress on 13/02/2009 03:46:05
Originally by: CCP Chronotis
I am also interested in your opinions on the concept itself and not just the numbers balancing. Generally the nature of wormhole space (there is so much of it) means the resources will be common and diffusely gathered and returned to the market. The 3 step process is overall easier than T2 but wormhole op logistics could potentially make it a much more difficult combined with the amount of materials needed to manufacture a complete ship.
That is exactly correct. I know that ccp doesn't like to balance based on price, but you know how the eve market works. If it is near impossible to make, someone will make it but for some insane markup that the item really shouldn't cost. Look at T2 rigs for example. Not hard to make, but the availability of parts is so slim that the price of the items is insane. Nobody uses t2 rigs unless they're spending billions on a ship. For the most part, there is no variation in t1 vs t2 rigs, and nobody cares about calibration because nobody uses t2 rigs. This could have been fixed by increasing the drop rate of t2 salvage.
Now lets apply this to T3 production. First of all, you have a normal mineral price and normal mineral logistics. We've dealt with that before, we can deal with that again. Add to that the fact that we have to mine in space that we aren't guaranteed to be able to even leave and that we have no idea where in eve we will appear once we do leave, and you've just made the whole idea of even mining in w-space no fun. Mining is a profession, and is based on calculated risk and reward, not random risk like PvP. Add to that the fact that not only do we have to mine in w-space, but we also have to rat in w-space. We can't just skillfully avoid the sleepers. Then after all of that, we have to find the materials to reverse engineer and we have to do the reverse engineering. Simply put, the price of these ships is going to be somewhat proportional to what the players doing this stuff want to pay themselves. If this stuff is near impossible to do in the first place, the prices for whatever matierials they get is going to be extreme. Add to that the sheer amount of very skilled player work that is going on and you have some ships that are horribly unbalanced as far as price and performance. I could easily see these things going for something like what capital ships sell for, but with stats somewhere near what a HAC has. In fact, I make capital ships with lots less effort than it would take me to make one t3 ship.
This system is wildly out of balance as far as a ratio of work + risk input versus reward.
Making T3 ships expensive is one thing. Making them damn near impossible to build is just mean.
Edit: oh, and the kicker is that once you finally do build your sweet T3 ship and it eventually gets blown up, you loose skillpoints. Personally, I don't even plan on participating in T3 or wormhole space at all.
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Sendinal Cortere
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Posted - 2009.02.13 05:55:00 -
[79]
So I did some quick data mining and all this is speculation.
All the Fullerites are 10.0 m3 so you get one every cycle(30 seconds) per harvester. Without Laser Optimization, I'm not sure it works for Gas Harvesters.
By looking at all the reactions. If you wanted to make one batch of each polymers you would need
c320 -100(1) c540 -150(1) c84 -200(2) c72 -205(2) c32 -380(2) c28 -380(4) c60 -425(4) c70 -480(5) c50 -920(5)
and
Zyd 95(4) Mega 170(4) Iso 400(1) Mex 600(1) Pye 800(1) Trit 1000(1) Nox 2100(4)
(number) indicates number of reactions the material is used in
Taking a look at the Fullerite numbers and knowing that W-space quality is basically 3 'tiers' then I'm guessing:
Low Quality - Empire Linking c50 c60 (uncommon) c70
Medium Quality - Lowsec Linking c28 c32 c72 (uncommon)
High Quality - 0.0 Linking c84 c540 c320 (uncommon)
of course there may be some overlap but I doubt you will jump Empire to a W-space with c320 as a common occurrence
Only 6 of these reactions include only one type of fullerite. Those six only use c50, c60, and c70. Which I'm guessing is common from the numbers above, so these are 'low end' Polymers.
Low End Polymers Fullerine Intercalated Graphite (mex-600 c70-100: Batch-100) Fullerite Amarids (Pye-800 c50-250: B-100) Gallium Selenide (Trit-1000, c50-200: B-100 Lanthanum Metallofullerene (Nox-200 c70-80: B-80) Methanofullerene (Iso-400 c60-125: B-100) Scandium Metallofullerene(Zyd-20 c70-100: B-80)
Medium End Polymers (use two Fullerites that are Low-Med Quality) Benzyl Aminofullerenes (zyd c60 c70 b80) C3-FTM Acid (zyd c50 c72 b60) Fullero-Ferrocine (nox c70 c28 b60) Graphene Nanoribbons (nox c50 c60 b80) Nanobud Polymers (Mega c60 c28 b60)
Numbers ommited as I'm tired and it's alot of typing
High End Polymers (Medium to High Quality) Carbon-86 Epoxy Resin Nanotori Polymers (batch 60 so may be med quality others are 20) Plutonium Metallofullerene Polyfullerene Condensate PPD Fullerene Fibers
This is first glance and I know changes might happen and I can't find the bp's for the hybrid components to compile the usage of the polymers and cross reference blah blah blah. Wild speculation is over for tonight
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Horchan
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.02.13 06:58:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Sendinal Cortere Stuff
I agree with your initial number crunching how the polymers are spread through the reactions. It is indeed an interesting distribution to say the least.
I'm not sure exactly on the distribution of them through wormhole origin. I'm personally not going to delve into theories on that, since anything I say will probably be wrong.
However, I'd like to propose a different way of organizing the reactions, which is first mainly by the amounts of their outputs, which interestingly enough sorts them fairly well.
First we have the "A" group: (100 output) * Fullerine Interlaced Graphite (C-70) * Fullerite Aramids (C-50) * Gallium Selenide (C-50) * Methanofullerene (C-60)
Then the "B" group: (80 output) * Lanthanum Metallofullerene (C-70) * Scandium Metallofullerene (C-70) * Benzyl Aminofullerene (C-70, C-60) * Graphene Nanoribbons (C-50, C-60)
Then the "C" group: (60 output) * Fullero-Ferrocene (C-70, C-28) * Nanobud Polymers (C-60, C-28) * C3- FTM Acid (C-50, C-72) * Nanotori Polymers (C-50, C-84)
And finally the "D" group: (20 output) * Carbon-86 Epoxy Resin (C-28, C-72) * Polyfullerene Condensate (C-84, C-32) * Plutonium Metallofullerne (C-32, C-540) * PPD Fullerene Fibers (C-28, C-320)
A few things of note - All of "A" group only require one fullerite, as well as 2 of the 4 of "B" group. Also, All of "A" and "B" groups only require C-50, C-70, and C-60. It's not until the "C" group that you start to see the 'intermediate' fullerites come into use (C-28, C-72, and C-84). In the "C" group we see half of the uses for these intermediate fullerites, with the other half being in the "D" group. Speaking of the "D"s, this is where we see the 'advanced' fullerites come in force (C-32, C-320, and C-540), only with Carbon-86 Epoxy being the odd one out with not requiring at least one of these.
So in a way I take back what I said about not theorizing of the cloud distribution. Looking at this a bit closer, I'd say:
Linked from highsec: C-50, C-70, C-60 Linked from lowsec: C-28, C-72, C-84 Linked from 0.0: C-32, C-320, C-540
With the addendum that these are the linked space where these start to show up, much like certain asteroids don't show up until a certain sec status. Also, there's a bit of a color pattern to the "clouds" in their icons: C-50 and C-60 are Red, C-70 is Blue C-28 and C-84 are Yellow, C-72 is Green C-320 and C-540 are White(-ish), C-32 is Orange
True, the odd one out in each group may be misplaced, but that's a bet I'll just have to make.
And yes, there are many, MANY things not seeded that are needed to better understand the whole T3 manufacturing chain. We can only hope a patch comes out soon that adds them so we can better comprehend what this is all used for. =P ---
DesuSigs |
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Sendinal Cortere
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Posted - 2009.02.13 09:01:00 -
[81]
Edited by: Sendinal Cortere on 13/02/2009 09:04:06
Originally by: Horchan Better stuff
I was leaning towards a 4 tier classification myself after pondering and your's fits perfectly. Looted.
I was originally looking at it from a cost to produce and the single fulleride reactions can be done cheapest with a medium tower so naturally I grouped them together. The double fulleride reactions can also be done in a medium tower by adding another biochemical silo, but it'll be bursting at the seams with little room for defense or services.
Note: The new reactor and silo aren't on the planner so I used subs with the same fuel requirements.
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Space Wanderer
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Posted - 2009.02.13 09:18:00 -
[82]
The blueprints of Hybrid components have been already seeded?
If yes, can you tell me a couple of names? I might be dumb, but I have not yet been able to find them. Shame on me. :-)
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.02.13 10:05:00 -
[83]
Originally by: CCP Chronotis
I am also interested in your opinions on the concept itself and not just the numbers balancing. Generally the nature of wormhole space (there is so much of it) means the resources will be common and diffusely gathered and returned to the market. The 3 step process is overall easier than T2 but wormhole op logistics could potentially make it a much more difficult combined with the amount of materials needed to manufacture a complete ship.
A point I find problematic i the concept is how mining/gas harvesting will work.
From what little we know of the Sleeper NPC barge mining seem useless. I doubt any barge can survive even the light spawns. It is doubtful even exumers can survive them long enough for defender to clear the NPC swarm or switch aggro to themselves.
Then we need to gather gas clouds, with no specialized ship for that and a module that require turret slots to be usable.
So essentially the best WH mining/gas harvesting ship will be a BS or a command ship. But it will be a non dedicated ship (so no bonus for mining/gas harvesting) without offensive capability and maybe even a gimped tank.
The net effect seem to be a low rate of resources gathering.
Add that the harvesting ship need some (probably several) escort ship with offensive capability dedicated to kill the sleeper swarm and the cost in manpower needed to gather the gas and eventually mine the asteroids seem out of proportion.
Add the point that all the people dedicated to harvesting the gas and protecting the harvester will not be in position to search for the archaeological sites where the best stuff should be and you have a very manpower intensive activity with a low quantity return.
It seem hardly the way to produce something that is meant to be more than extremely rare.
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Javonite
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Posted - 2009.02.13 10:34:00 -
[84]
I agree with the posters who think that it requires way too little skill to make a successful manufacturer or researcher.
However I wouldn't suggest making a bunch of level 5's the minimum required level to build tech 3. It's sufficient if you ensure that higher skill levels are worth their while. For instance you could let Material Level of reverse engineered BPC increases according to skill level.
All in all, I'm happy with the proposed manufacturing process, and I think it's the most exciting patch since invention.
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El'essar Viocragh
Minmatar Meltdown Luftfahrttechnik
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Posted - 2009.02.13 11:16:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Venkul Mul So essentially the best WH mining/gas harvesting ship will be a BS or a command ship. But it will be a non dedicated ship (so no bonus for mining/gas harvesting) without offensive capability and maybe even a gimped tank.
A Rokh with either 8 DCML II or 5 GCH I is probably the way to go if you mine the traditional minerals in W-space too (if you have the ability to refit in W).
But that uses up cargo when you find a route to K-space.
I know I will use stuff that I can get in K-space only to fill up my cargo once I secure a route back. Every other scrap of cargo will be filled with W-exclusive toys. |
FlameGlow
Legio Octae Rebellion Alliance
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Posted - 2009.02.13 14:02:00 -
[86]
Please think of the poor explorers and damage Hybrid interface slightly with each invention job. Otherwise it's value will quickly diminish and it won't be worthwhile to make those, like it now is for all non-ship interfaces. |
Deva Blackfire
coracao ardente
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Posted - 2009.02.13 15:34:00 -
[87]
Originally by: CCP Chronotis
Originally by: Tharrn Edited by: Tharrn on 12/02/2009 15:53:14 Materials to test the reactions - not seeded New Gases - not seeded Reverse Engineering labs - not seeded Wormholes - still collapsed
This thread is a bit pointless until the above points have been fixed :P
I am also interested in your opinions on the concept itself and not just the numbers balancing. Generally the nature of wormhole space (there is so much of it) means the resources will be common and diffusely gathered and returned to the market. The 3 step process is overall easier than T2 but wormhole op logistics could potentially make it a much more difficult combined with the amount of materials needed to manufacture a complete ship.
Depends on lots of things. Basically id imagine w-space (one "pocket") should give me enough resources to build one t3 ship (or at least 2-3 components for it). And THEN prices will oscillate around 50-100m/component piece.
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Myyona
Minmatar Ataraxia Pharmacies
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Posted - 2009.02.13 17:24:00 -
[88]
Edited by: Myyona on 13/02/2009 17:24:41 Hm, so I get now Gas Cloud Harvesters needs to be even MORE accessible to the public?
They are, in fact, not that hard to acquire (even for a solo player like me) if you put EFFORT into it. And you have been able to buy the Gas Cloud Harvesting skill a pirate faction stations in no sec space for a long time now.
Btw. I enjoy being able to do stuff solo than others can't manage even when being in a group. |
Steve Thomas
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Posted - 2009.02.13 17:34:00 -
[89]
on top of all the effort needed to extract T3 mats you will have the inevitable hit on T1 mineral and Rig salvag gathering due to people diverted from mining-Ratting-Dronehunting-Mission running-Salvageing-plexrunning-exploring to hunting down Sleepers and harvesting gases.
you had mentioned elsewhere that 40% of minerals come from melting loot. I have to wonder what the impact of this ends up being with people diverted from whats currently the base resource gathering
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Joram McRory
eXceed Inc. Minor Threat.
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Posted - 2009.02.13 18:06:00 -
[90]
Edited by: Joram McRory on 13/02/2009 18:08:05
Originally by: Paranoid MindZ
It will make this expansion another "large groups only expansion".
Was going to post something similar. As with all low and deep 0.0 assests, the major alliances move in and dominate it pushing the remaining 99.98% of Eve out and unable to access them.
I'm not sure where you are gtting your figures from. AFAIK CCP released stats last year saying that ~25% of charracters were in 0.0. I've been living in 0.0 for years and have met a lot of people. 2 Accounts is the norm, and a lot have more than that. For nearly everyone out in 0.0 there are 2 to 3 times as many empire alts in empire. So at least 50% of chracters belong to a 0.0 player.
As for the OP - this sounds ok without having tried it yet but as someone else said WH stability will prove to be the key - if they persist in one location for a couple of weeks this seems viable, if they jump around every day or so it is going to be very very hard!
Joram
My Photography site |
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