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Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
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Posted - 2009.02.11 21:53:00 -
[1]
Well, congratulations, you've just found yourself in warp to the kind of fight everyone dreams of. You've ganked your share of easy kills, and you've been ganked with overwhelming odds, but now it's something different: a fair fight. Whether it's the mythical character with the same age and a comparable ship, you and a wingman warping into a gang of five lesser opponents, or any other similar combination, the dice have been thrown and it's anyone's fight to win.
So, how do you plan to give yourself that extra edge and tip the odds in your favor a bit? Well, that's where this guide comes in. None of these hints will give you an automatic win, but all you really need to do is protect that last single hull hitpoint, and those little 5% bonuses add up quickly.
Note that I don't claim to have every secret to PvP success, so the rest of you are welcome to add your own suggestions, but there are three basic rules here:
1) Useful to everyone. I'm sure we all have our preferences with specific ships, but there are plenty of guides arguing the precise correct setup on a Rifter. The idea here is to provide general suggestions that anyone can benefit from, regardless of their character age or choice of ships.
2) No unreasonable ISK cost. While full faction fits are awesome, telling someone "go spent 500 mil on faction/officer gear and your Rupture will be awesome!" is not very helpful. Please keep the costs reasonable and proportionate to the ship cost.
3) No long training times. While things like T2 guns, Battleship V, etc, are all wonderful, they're not exactly helpful advice when you want to win a fight now, not six months from now.
So: the list of what you want to have as you come out of warp and see those blinking red lines on your overview:
1) Read guides. Just by being here and reading this guide, you are well ahead of a frighteningly large number of people, even a lot of relatively old characters. While some of us will argue endlessly over correct choices, even trusting the "wrong" author will save you from flying things like a hull-tanked autocannon Thorax with a pair of Ogre Is in the drone bay. Just remember: cookie-cutter setups are cookie-cutter because they work, don't reinvent the wheel just because you think only mindless sheep copy someone else's work.
2) Get thermodynamics. Yes, this does involve training a skill to level V, but that prerequisite is one of the most useful skills in the game, and overheating is a huge advantage. If you're equally matched with someone and suddenly gain 20% more dps, 20% more tank, more speed, more range on your web/scram, etc, you're going to win, and win decisively. No other skill gives you that huge an increase, not even T2 guns/modules.
3) Train your leadership skills. I can't even count the number of times I've joined a gang with someone and found that nobody had bothered to set themselves as squad commander and give out some gang bonuses. Even just training the basic skills to level IV will give 8% shield/armor HP, 8% agility, and a token 8% lock range to every ship in the gang. This is a bonus way out of proportion to the tiny amount of time required to get those skills.
4) Don't ignore faction mods. Yes, a lot of them are expensive, but some of them can help a lot. How often have you been trying to figure out a setup and found yourself a tiny bit short on CPU? Well, did you know that a Dread Guristas warp disruptor uses 2 less CPU than T2, but has otherwise identical stats? Did you know that you can get them for 5 million ISK or less? Did you know that a lot of faction armor mods are so cheap that I don't even bother putting them on contracts? -----------
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Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
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Posted - 2009.02.11 21:54:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Merin Ryskin on 11/02/2009 21:58:14 5) Always use faction or T2 ammo. It's dirt cheap these days, and a huge upgrade over T1. Unless you're using T2 long-range ammo, always use faction.
6) Practice on SiSi. Yes, it's not a perfect simulation of the real server, but you can still learn a lot. Buy a stack of 10+ of your favorite ship and go fight in them. You'll quickly get a lot of practice, without all the pain of losses on the real server. If you PvP in a corp, invite some of them on there and also get some practice with gangs.
That's it for now, but more additions are welcome. -----------
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Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
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Posted - 2009.02.11 21:54:00 -
[3]
*reserved for future additions* -----------
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Vladimir Norkoff
Income Redistribution Service
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Posted - 2009.02.11 22:13:00 -
[4]
Maybe mention something about knowing the range and tracking of your weapons vs likely fit of opponent? ACs vs Blasters, Blasters vs Lazors, etc.
Taxman VI: Voided Ledger
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Merdaneth
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2009.02.11 22:43:00 -
[5]
Make an engagement decision quickly Even 5 seconds of free fire before the hostile locks is a lot of dps, and in fair fights this might tip the balance in your favor.
Have an Ace in the hole The guides provide a good setup of what works in general. Use the knowledge, but don't be afraid to do a small variation of the cookie-cutter setup so that you might surprise your opponent, and throw him off balance for a brief time. In a fair fight, a brief time of imbalance is usually a decisive advantage. Example: I have flown without scram for a long time, using the free mid for something else. In unfair fights, a scram is essential, in fair fights, people tend to stay in there to the very end, because they (and their gangmates) have a real hope of winning.
P.S. Where I use 'fair' I mean 'evenly matched'. Actual fair fights don't really exist, but evenly matched ones certainly do.
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The Illusion of Freedom | The Truth about Slavery |
Ctp Hawkeye
Caldari Vice And Valour
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Posted - 2009.02.11 23:39:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Ctp Hawkeye on 11/02/2009 23:39:29 my number 1 rule of pvp:
Have a gtfo option. This means, some gimmick that allows you to bail if things go bad. Be it superior range, speed, ECM drones, whatever. Make sure that once engaged, you have sme way of disabling their point if you have to. Cap war is nice for this, but ECM drones do really help.
Another tip : in *REALLY* close small fights, strip them of their drones, assign someone to it or put your drones on theirs. While each ship may only have say a 15 r 25 dronebay, the incoming DPS adds up.
Also a note on thermo: For lower skill players, heat builds upa lot faster than damage when overloading full racks. So, overload at the very start of the fight, stop whenheat gets critical, allow heat to dissapate, and re-overload again. Rinse and repeat. Dont just use it once things are bad, use it right from the start. ******** SIG :O ******** |
Gaven Lok'ri
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2009.02.11 23:44:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Gaven Lok''ri on 11/02/2009 23:44:56 Know exactly what your ship is capable of. Put your own setup together, don't rely on someone else's setup unless you understand and agree with the purpose of every single module. This is not to say that guides are wrong, but that if you use someone else's setup without understanding it you are going to misuse it and lose it.
Know exactly how your ship flies, what its optimal is, how its tracking works, ect. The more comfortable you are in your ship, the more likely you are going to make the right decisions.
Fly cheap. Whatever cheap means to you. This is important because if you are flying cheap you are more likely to also be flying aggressive.
Aggression is the key. If the fight is actually even, the person who is off balance and out of control of the situation is going to lose. The way to always retain control of the situation is to be the one who is taking new actions that dictate how the fight progresses. This means that you need to be making decisions decisively and faster than your opponent. Making the wrong decision immediately is often better than making the right decision after its too late to actually implement that decision.
Fight against the odds. If you are used to finding ways to win the uneven fights, the ones the enemy is supposed to win, then when you actually fight the enemy on truly even terms it will seem like a cakewalk.
Fight often. Make sure you know why you lose every time you lose. Eventually that will turn into instinct, and you will start making the right decisions without thinking about them.
Deus Vult! PIE Website Public Channel: 'PIE Public' |
Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
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Posted - 2009.02.12 00:21:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Gaven Lok'ri Fly cheap. Whatever cheap means to you. This is important because if you are flying cheap you are more likely to also be flying aggressive.
I disagree. While "don't fly what you can't afford to lose" is good advice, flying anything less is a very bad idea. A full-T2 fit ship is simply going to win 99% of the time against a comparable full-T1-basic ship. Obviously not everyone can afford to fly the absolute best, but you should always fly the best you can afford to risk. -----------
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Lilith Velkor
Minmatar DEATH'S LEGION Red Box.
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Posted - 2009.02.12 00:39:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Lilith Velkor on 12/02/2009 00:39:54
Quote:
I disagree. While "don't fly what you can't afford to lose" is good advice, flying anything less is a very bad idea. A full-T2 fit ship is simply going to win 99% of the time against a comparable full-T1-basic ship. Obviously not everyone can afford to fly the absolute best, but you should always fly the best you can afford to risk.
Yea, I tend to say 'fly what you can afford to fit nicely and then lose it'.
Even if its only a frigate, you'd be amazed what a fully t2 fit rifter can do compared to a t1 fit, there are worlds in-between.
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Terianna Eri
Amarr Scrutari
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Posted - 2009.02.12 03:19:00 -
[10]
A couple corrections - DG warp disruptor actually uses 4 less CPU than T2 (40 v. 44)
The 5% medium turret damage implants do not in fact use the same slots as the all gun RoF/all gun Damage (which do use the same slot). I can definitely attest that the +5 med turret damage implants are very very worth it though since there's very little an average player would want there (cap recharge implant? eeeeh) and they are in fact bloody cheap as dirt.
Everything else of course is totally spot-on and a good read.
Something I'd add: Read a lot. Understanding why a cookie-cutter fit for your own ship is good, but being able to look at an enemy gang and have a pretty good idea from their ships what their fittings and tactics are likely to be is pretty powerful. Plus it makes you less likely to do silly things like call ships by their faction/t2/t1 variants (calling a rook a blackbird, etc). __________________________________
Originally by: Arthur Frayn How much to ruin all your holes, luv?
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Elaina Marie
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Posted - 2009.02.12 03:27:00 -
[11]
My number one tip?
Always remember there is no such thing as a "fair" fight. If someone is engaging you, they have already decided they can win due to their ace in the hole. If you are engaging someone, you have already decided you can win by using your ace in the hole.
The ace in the hole can be one of more of many things.
But there is no such thing as fair.
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Kaileen Starsong
Amarr Veto. Veto Corp
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Posted - 2009.02.12 04:09:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Elaina Marie
Always remember there is no such thing as a "fair" fight. If someone is engaging you, they have already decided they can win due to their ace in the hole. If you are engaging someone, you have already decided you can win by using your ace in the hole.
Not always the case. I mean, with enough experience you can usually tell the outcome of fight before it even starts, but it gets old quite quick. I tend to find myself willing to engage even if chances to lose are somewhat higher than 50%, heh(BC vs CS fights come to mind first of all) and I know quite a bit of guys who tend to engage against odds just because of a thrill of NOT knowing if you would win or not.
Anyway, to stay on topic. Know your ship, know it strengths and be tactically aware of them. Pre-fight positioning can be the difference between winning and losing fight. Think what's better - engaging yourself or playing dumb and allowing opponent to warp on to you.
Don't underestimate your opponent, if you're flying BS/CS and he's only in BC - he still have chances to beat you, even if you don't make any mistakes(as in, he was prepared).
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Tzar'rim
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Posted - 2009.02.12 09:45:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Tzar''rim on 12/02/2009 09:47:34 - control is more important than outright dps. Sensor damps, tracking distruptors, ECM, webs and neuts help controlling a fight - don't believe EFT dps numbers but rather understand how dps is done and how it's negated and fit for a purpose.
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Nexus Kinnon
Genos Occidere
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Posted - 2009.02.12 10:07:00 -
[14]
Have your overview configured correctly - have type on there, velocity, transversal, corp/alliance, etc. The more you know about your opponent, the better.
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Vall Kor
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.02.12 17:06:00 -
[15]
If you're in a fair fight, you didn't plan it properly.
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Trebor Notlimah
Lone Star EVE Group Veni Vidi Vici
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Posted - 2009.02.12 18:18:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Vall Kor If you're in a fair fight, you didn't plan it properly.
Welcome to EVE.
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Ctp Hawkeye
Caldari Vice And Valour
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Posted - 2009.02.12 18:47:00 -
[17]
Make sure comminucations are 100% clear at all times. Say you know a gate is camped, you warp fleet to it, planning to jump thru simeltaneously - MAKE SURE EVERYONE KNOWS. Otherwise some sap will jump thru on contact and die in a horrible fire.
Know yur ships + modules. Knowing that a blaster rax will probably do near 0 gun DPS at ranges over 4km and stuff, and use the information to your advantage.
If your weapons are range-irrelevant (missile users listen) it is still important to range control and watch transversal as a defensive mechanism. I see so many missile boats die, happily sitting stationary just tanking and spewing missiles. ******** SIG :O ******** |
Dosgar
Caldari THE GRAIL SEEKER5
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Posted - 2009.02.12 19:12:00 -
[18]
Bring a falco...
Oh wait, better not say it...
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kor anon
Amarr The Tuskers
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Posted - 2009.02.12 19:45:00 -
[19]
I find fair fights boring, I prefer fighting against the odds
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Saaya Illirie
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Posted - 2009.02.12 20:29:00 -
[20]
Micromanage your Drones against Droneboats
Make sure you have return to drone bay and attack target hotkeyed. It's very valuable in fights against droneboats like Ishtar when you're lacking smartbombs, your drones can kill theirs and then recall before the enemy has a chance to lock your drones and have his kill yours. This tactic requires pushing a few buttons and clicking stuff, but when every edge counts killing someones drones when they don't micromanage their own will see you gain the advantage.
This tactic has helped me to deter many Ishtar from detroying battleships of my own. Chances for a gunboat battleship to beat an Ishtar are absurdly slim, but if you can neutralize his drones he'll be forced to either pull off or tackle you till your or his help arrives first.
BASIC TIP: Know where you are
Know if you're flying in 0.0 space with an organized regional defense chat. If you are, anticipate that they have already called for reinforcements, you might love the fair fight but the victim probably doesn't. If you don't anticipate reinforcements, you're begging to get killed.
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waruiushiro
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Posted - 2009.02.12 21:04:00 -
[21]
Practice often. Find people who practice often and practice with them. Within each of us there is a biological response to combat, the 'rush.' For inexperienced players, this can lead to partial blindness, trembles, missed keystrokes, delay in activating modules or not activating them at all, and more. In a word, panic.
Every time you enter combat, this rush diminishes until it barely impacts your playing at all.
Being to able control yourself and act like swift, cold steel is the organic bonus.
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Deyonius Rasium
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Posted - 2009.02.13 00:39:00 -
[22]
Thermodynamics and overheating
Best last second hope there is today. Or be cheap and make sure you have a tracking disruptor fitted to kill of some of their dps (if you're in a cruiser sized ship or smaller) if you can spare the slot for it.
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Corduroy Rab
Chaos Reborn
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Posted - 2009.02.13 00:43:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Dosgar Bring a falco...
Oh wait, better not say it...
Yeah that's where I thought this was going too
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Cromzor
Caldari Darkstorm Command Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2009.02.13 01:12:00 -
[24]
God, I cant believe I'm a Merlin post *****. Do you have any guides to suggest? Can't wait for more. I feel so dirty...
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libertarian cole
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Posted - 2009.02.13 03:34:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Merin Ryskin
Originally by: Gaven Lok'ri Fly cheap. Whatever cheap means to you. This is important because if you are flying cheap you are more likely to also be flying aggressive.
I disagree. While "don't fly what you can't afford to lose" is good advice, flying anything less is a very bad idea. A full-T2 fit ship is simply going to win 99% of the time against a comparable full-T1-basic ship. Obviously not everyone can afford to fly the absolute best, but you should always fly the best you can afford to risk.
I don't agree with this. It goes back to what someone said earlier about using fits that you know and understand. Plenty of noobs will deck their ships out in T2 fits, but the fits are BAD. My T1 (not tungsten either) plated vexor beat a blaster thor in a duel because the other pilot was using armor reps while I had a hit point tank. On paper his ship was better then mine in every respect, except he did not have a large buffer zone. A well fitted Ishtar will always beat a vexor, but against three vexors the outcome will not be clear cut and those three vexors wont even be half the price of that ishtar. If flying cheaply allows you to fly aggressively then do it, because experience in combat situations is much better then learning how to save your expensive T2 ship.
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Karrade Krise
Galatic P0RN Starz
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Posted - 2009.02.13 03:48:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Karrade Krise on 13/02/2009 03:49:02 EFT has other uses than seeing what kind of setup to play with.
If I find myself out solo and I'm hunting another ship that I'm not too familiar with, I'll take a quick peak at my EFT setups of said-ship and browse through some of the "cookie cutter" setups I have preloaded for each ship, and check things such as max dps setup, max tank setup, and just any setup you see commonly posted online, and etc. etc. (while in warp or such) This gives me a rough idea of what I could possibly be facing if and when I do catch the target. (Or if the "target" catches me)
Knowing your enemies' strengths and weaknesses is priceless.
Apoctasy > unfortunately, Concord does not reimburse citizens for their own stupidity
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Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
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Posted - 2009.02.13 10:29:00 -
[27]
Originally by: libertarian cole A well fitted Ishtar will always beat a vexor, but against three vexors the outcome will not be clear cut and those three vexors wont even be half the price of that ishtar. If flying cheaply allows you to fly aggressively then do it, because experience in combat situations is much better then learning how to save your expensive T2 ship.
And here's the problem: yes, you might lose your Ishtar against 3x Vexors, but the reason why you won't lose a Vexor in that scenario is because you have zero chance of winning and you stay docked in station instead of taking the risky fight. So flying the cheap ship forces you to fly less aggressively, since you have to turn down a lot more potential targets. -----------
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Rennion
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Posted - 2009.02.13 11:09:00 -
[28]
I think the "don't fly what you cannot afford to lose" thing is grossly mis-used.
What I take from this is that you don't go flying around pvp'ing in any of the ships you use to generate isk. It does not mean keep 1 billion in your wallet at all times and fly T1.
Fit to win and beat people who fit to minimise loss. ISK is an infinite resource limited only by time.
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Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2009.02.13 12:06:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Gypsio III on 13/02/2009 12:08:00
Carry a ship scanner in cargo.
OK, almost always you won't have the opportunity to dock, fit it, scan your opponent, redock, refit and undock, and the results that you do get are notoriously unreliable. But just occasionally you will have a chance to use it. It's dirt-cheap and small as well, and can be useful in station games, so it's hardly a penalty to carry it.
It's particularly useful to identify resist holes on ships such as HACs. Can my Drake kill this Zealot while tanking sentries as well? Is it a ganky HP fit or a tanky FMP one? Which missile damage type should I use? Does it have disruptor or scrambler?
(The answers were yes, ganky, thermal, disruptor.) |
Morel Nova
z3r0 Gravity Fluidic Anti-Gravity
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Posted - 2009.02.13 13:27:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Karrade Krise Edited by: Karrade Krise on 13/02/2009 03:49:02 EFT has other uses than seeing what kind of setup to play with.
If I find myself out solo and I'm hunting another ship that I'm not too familiar with, I'll take a quick peak at my EFT setups of said-ship and browse through some of the "cookie cutter" setups I have preloaded for each ship, and check things such as max dps setup, max tank setup, and just any setup you see commonly posted online, and etc. etc. (while in warp or such) This gives me a rough idea of what I could possibly be facing if and when I do catch the target. (Or if the "target" catches me)
Knowing your enemies' strengths and weaknesses is priceless.
its even better to google up their old losses from their corp killboard :) |
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