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Amy Wang
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Posted - 2009.02.12 12:23:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Amy Wang on 12/02/2009 12:30:32
I am mainly aiming at the option to reassign attributes every 6 month.
This has several impacts:
1. It devaluates attributes altogether: Suddenly it does not matter much what your attributes are, you can just adjust them to suit your training, why have attributes then in the first place?
This also makes race choices mostly irrelevant except for appearance.
2. It basically forces players to train in 6 month cycles (e.g. 6 month of perc/willpower based skills only, followed by 6 month of int/mem based skills, etc)just so they don't fall behind because they train not with maximum efficiency.
It is also not great for new players since the "you have to train learning skills first" tip gets replaced by the even more tedious and limiting tip of "you need to train int/memory based skills first starting with learning skills after maxing your attributes to that field".
It takes a lot of freedom out of the training and lets face it, freedom is fun. Having the impulse of "hey I should train for xyz now" been immediately curbed by "oh wait my attributes are aligned to another field for another 3 months" is just not good and fun gameplay.
3. It increases overall training time. While this is an odd thing to complain about on the first glance, granted, it means that the accomplishment of older players gets diminished and is also bad for CCP's business in the long run unless they introduce a lot of extra skills to train as people reach points where they run out of (useful) skills to train faster.
Moreover this puts those of the new players at an disadvantage that are not able to plan ahead (and many of them wont quite likely) and organize their skills in 6 month brackets. People that play on a whim and easily give in to impulses will be frustrated by their slower then average progression.
I am not arguing against a one-time attribute reassignment, but the option to do it every 6 months does not seem like a good idea.
Alternatives:
a) Make it a one time only option (two times for new characters, first time to get out of the evenly distributed starting attributes and another time considerably later in their career to make up for early made mistakes just like the old players are allowed to correct theirs)
This allows people with "gimped" attributes to fix that issue and chose a more balanced attribute set without leading necessarily to the min-maxing enforcement the 6 month cooldown does (as outlined above).
b) Make it only possible to switch a single attribute point (or at least a severely limited number) each time. The timeframe could be shortened instead, e.g. allow reassigning of 1 point per month or so.
There could even be a skill introduced that reduces the cooldown of the reassignment e.g. from 2 month to 1 month with lvl 5 or similar.
That way characters can fix their broken attribute allocation over time or gear their character (slowly) towards a new career, again without allowing for the min-maxing that an instant complete attribute switch every 6 month would bring.
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Wacktopia
Infinity Miners Union
Eych Four Eks Zero Ahr
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Posted - 2009.02.12 13:14:00 -
[2]
Attributes in EVE are a little bit at a tangent to those you might expect from a more classic MMO as it is not very obvious how each attribute will actually help a new player with their desired role or career path. In more classic MMOs a player often has the choice between "magic", "strength", "speed" etc that have fairly obvious outcomes. E.g if you want to be a "warrior" you beef up your "strength". I still today could not tell you off the top of my head what attributes to go for it you wanted to be a miner or a pirate or a freighter.
So I guess CCP want to allow newer players to be able to change their choices if they turned out not to be good ones or if, after a few months, they decide to change their career path in game.
That said, I see really no reason why a year old+ player should have the ability to tweak their attributes according to their current training set. Like Amy says, this almost makes the attributes and their choices pointless.
My suggestion would be to: Allow players under 1 year old to change their attributes every 3 months but not then after a year.
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Omber Zombie
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Posted - 2009.02.12 18:03:00 -
[3]
honestly, when i frrst heard about it i was of the mind "woot, finally can dump that charisma i put 3 points into when i first started".
Respeccing does devalue the attributes because you will get people respeccing every 6months so they can plan their skills accordingly, but in the end I'd rather have no attributes at all. Level them all to a standardized amount and leave the skills to train based on rank.
Then I had the thought - what about specialisation. With respeccing it means I can max out certain attributes, specialise in an area I want, and if I decide later that I want to specialise elswhere, respec and move to that area. I won't lose the skills I already have, but because I have respecced to maximise training elsewhere, it means if an expansion happens in the middle of the respec cycle I can't just go back to my old specialisation.
i'm waffling, but I guess my point is that attributes are currently a hindrance to open gameplay, so respeccing should help fix that.
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My Blog |
Covert Kitty
Amarr
Rock Grinders
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Posted - 2009.02.15 03:13:00 -
[4]
I agree with all of you, Amy brings up some points that I would not have thought about and they are _very_ valid. As a new player I do feel that its important to allow one or two restats, its almost inevitable that your first character will be royally sqrewed up. I played one character for a week, then remade a new one after learning how messed up it was. I think both of Amy's suggested alternatives are entirely reasonable, and well thought out.
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Serenity Steele
Dynamic Data Distribution
Ministry of Information
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Posted - 2009.02.15 11:25:00 -
[5]
Can someone please provide linkage to where this was announced?
Cheers!
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Covert Kitty
Amarr
Rock Grinders
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Posted - 2009.02.15 13:09:00 -
[6]
I'd like to add one additional comment. The last mmo I played was a game called Ragnarok Online, it bears absolutely no resemblance to Eve except for one thing: stat entrapment. Like Eve, unless you did a great deal of research before ever making your first character theres a 99.9% chance that your first character will be completely screwed up, I played it on the official servers for 2 months, however eventually I realized that mistakes I made during character creation mandated that I redo my character from scratch. It was at that point that I quit the game.
The reason I said that learning skills and attributes are not true to the concept of eve, is that it has been said that one of the great things about eve, as opposed to other games, is that should you decide to take a different carrier path, you can. The attribute/learning skill system highlights that not only is this incorrect, but you must choose your carrier at character creation and then not deviate from it much. Do the game a favour and eliminate this design mistake.
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Amy Wang
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Posted - 2009.02.15 21:29:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Amy Wang on 15/02/2009 21:29:35
from the preliminary patch notes http://myeve.eve-online.com/updates/intesting.asp?sid=1017497449
 Quote:
New characters are now able to redistribute their attribute points at will any time after character creation (Twice for free). This option is available on the Character SheetĘs Attributes screen. Pilots pick their character attributes in a way that supports their expected gameplay. With Attribute Respecification, players will be able to change their core attributes (charisma, intelligence, memory, perception, willpower) within the game. Older characters can now redistribute their attribute points once every six months.
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Covert Kitty
Amarr
Rock Grinders
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Posted - 2009.02.15 22:08:00 -
[8]
thanks for the link, theres really a lot of great stuff in that.
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Serenity Steele
Dynamic Data Distribution
Ministry of Information
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Posted - 2009.02.15 23:25:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Amy Wang
from the preliminary patch notes http://myeve.eve-online.com/updates/intesting.asp?sid=1017497449
Thanks!
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