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techzer0
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2009.02.17 00:02:00 -
[121]
I'd give my limited API out, or send them to ineve or something... I really don't care who sees what skills I have or don't have.
If I did give out my API i'd probably change it within a week, just because I'd rather not hear about it from someone else when I miss a week of skill training, that and I'm shady ------------
Originally by: Nexus Kinnon I could outgay you even without my pink tutu. >.>
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Joshua Foiritain
Gallente Coreli Corporation
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Posted - 2009.02.17 00:21:00 -
[122]
Originally by: Durty Nell Full API
Giving full API information is tantamount to giving your in game bank account details, credit card details, debt card details
No its not, any of those details would allow people to take things, API keys only allow people to view things. Fairly major difference ---------------------------
[Coreli Corporation] |
Durty Nell
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2009.02.17 00:48:00 -
[123]
Originally by: Joshua Foiritain
Originally by: Durty Nell Full API
Giving full API information is tantamount to giving your in game bank account details, credit card details, debt card details
No its not, any of those details would allow people to take things, API keys only allow people to view things. Fairly major difference
Well yeah in RL strictly speaking youÆre correct Joshua they could empty your bank accounts and max out your credit cards. However I was merely pointing out the in game ramifications with a RL hypothetical. IÆm sure we both realise that it is shear folly to try and make these comparisons, hence was more a tongue in cheek statement arrowed at a previous poster.
You are also correct that it is indeed fortunate, in game, that there is no ability to empty someone elseÆs personal wallet yet the same cannot be said for the Corp wallet or divisions.
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echohead
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Posted - 2009.02.17 01:25:00 -
[124]
There are two groups of people in this thread that make me laugh. One group is the "wont give API? stay in empire noob" group. Despite fact that some experienced players and members of some 0.0 corps agree with me. These posters decide to just spam the boards saying that I am a chump for not being in their style of corp The other group are the "I am a ceo and I use api's to keep track of my employees.." Seriously did you people even read the thread? That has been repeated many times. Try to bring something new to the thread instead.
After reading alot of these posts I have to say the relying on API's seems to be the rule. As opposed to screening people the old fashioned way.
By the way I like how insecure all these people in large corps are acting. They really make a point to comment how everyone who doesn't agree with them will never be in a corp that "gets anything done" or "is important." Get what done? Make important internet spaceships? My corp is important because I am in it and have a blast playing, I don't need some alliance chump telling me what a loser I am because I don't see things his way.
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Taliph Stillwood
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Posted - 2009.02.17 02:06:00 -
[125]
Echohead,
As a CEO, I am obligated to protect the assets that my corp's members have helped build up. With the amount of corp hanger theft in this game, I'm going to be damn sure about a recruit before giving them access to those hangers. And that doesn't even consider information security, which is most necessary due to the ease at which enemy corps can flood recruitment with spy alts.
That means, api or don't apply.
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Joshua Foiritain
Gallente Coreli Corporation
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Posted - 2009.02.17 02:35:00 -
[126]
Originally by: echohead Despite fact that some experienced players and members of some 0.0 corps agree with me.
Unfortunately for them, once their corporation becomes fat enough, they will eventually be robbed.
This is the internet, people cannot be trusted. ---------------------------
[Coreli Corporation] |
Souvera Corvus
Gallente SPORADIC MOVEMENT FOUNDATI0N
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Posted - 2009.02.17 02:40:00 -
[127]
Edited by: Souvera Corvus on 17/02/2009 02:42:12 Edited by: Souvera Corvus on 17/02/2009 02:41:38 Supplying an api is a relatively quick, easy and straightforward method of character verification. In of and as of itself it does very little and on this basis I see no reason whatsoever for a potential recruit to get remotely ****ty about giving it.
Supplying an api is an indication of good will (for what that's worth) and it can substantiate claims made in convo's or in applications).
In addition to api's there are all sorts of other verifications that recruiters can get into such as forums, killboards and references that help colour an applicant.
None of these in isolation will stop a capable and prepared spy, all of them in combination won't either.
What they do is just assure your potential corpmates and alliance that the corp leadership are committed to some sort of due diligence in their recruitment and that they don't accept just anyone into their corp.
So you're either happy supplying your api and joining a corp where at least some care is taken regarding who they take in, or not.
Don't like it, don't do it.
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Rondo Gunn
Caldari Perkone
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Posted - 2009.02.17 02:43:00 -
[128]
Originally by: Taliph Stillwood ...That means, api or don't apply.
No api for you!
All this hulabaloo over corp theft. Do you honestly let newb corp members have full corp hangar access? No, you wouldn't because that would be stupid. Now as far as skill assessment goes, yeah I can see that.
Player corps, so much drama. No thanx. ----------------------------------------------- shin ku myo u
Please note: Everything I say is flavored with irony, cynicism and, of course, minty freshness. |
echohead
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Posted - 2009.02.17 03:08:00 -
[129]
Rondo has a point
Also I have said that I have been swayed to understand the limited API that this thread started over. But CEO's wanting to have fulltime full api access, and the logon screenshots. Those are my beefs now.
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Kanikara
Gallente Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2009.02.17 05:08:00 -
[130]
Funny thing is...
Having the api, screenshot of the login screen , etc..
Does nothing to stop corp theft at all.
George can be an honest soul on the api, login... and then just decide to snag everything in the corporate hangars.. for kicks and change the api... sell off the items and roll a new character (or switch back to the main)
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2009.02.17 05:32:00 -
[131]
Originally by: Dirk Magnum Edited by: Dirk Magnum on 13/02/2009 16:16:01
Originally by: echohead How can they find out how many accounts you have?
By requiring a screenshot of the login screen with accounts menu extended, and something in the background to verify the time it was taken (like an online newspaper with the day's headlines or something.) It can still be edited if someone is a bit handy with Photoshop or something but it's still better than nothing.
I know at least some people require this because I had to do it once.
clear the one settings file, and well look at me, I only have 1 account
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Carniflex
Caldari StarHunt Systematic-Chaos
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Posted - 2009.02.17 06:18:00 -
[132]
About possibilities of going into 0.0 without having to apply corp with API verification -- it is ofc possible, there is plenty of those around, some of them desperate enough to recruit anything that glances at their direction without any background cheks whatsoever. However - most 'real' groups are either invite only (ie - they don't know you - no entry with or without api) or with tight security procedures. And most corps in NPC zerozero are even more paranoid than the 'regular' zerozero corps in my impression.
Some of those small desperate-for-members corporations will work out in the end however I suspect it's somewhat painful process when harsh life in EVE wears down the idealism of it's leadership, assuming the leaders have other mental properties that are needed to run sucsessful zerozero corp. More often than not that kind of corporation folds or merges into 'proper' corporation (in what case the 'establised' corp they merge into does the needed background cheks usually)
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Johnathan Roark
Caldari Quantum Industries RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2009.02.17 06:35:00 -
[133]
Originally by: FIX IT So many people ready and willing to just give up their basic right to privacy. I would never give out my api to a random stranger.
It has nothing to do with hiding anything. You need not be a criminal of any sort to not like wire taps and surveillance. Further more I would have no desire to be a in a Corp full of people, half of whom are the sort who wish the power that looking into other peoples lives gives them, and the other half being the. pardon me, "sheep" who would willingly give up their privacy, and in a game at that where their benefits from it are not even real.
Want another reason? APIs mean nothing? Well when was the last time the ceo of that corp offered you HIS api in exchange for yours? I -might- consider giving my api, should I receive APIs of the ceo and all the directors. But I guess they will have reasons to keep their privacy while a recruit is supposed to give up his? Despicable.
And for those who claim this gives security - you are dreaming. Every major corp and alliance is infiltrated by spies and corp thieves waiting for their chance. deal with it, and try to make your corp be a fun place to be, even for a spy. and spies are often great member as they work hard to fit in and be valuable.
If a recruit really wants my api limited api key, i really do not care. hell, Ill even point them to ineve where I have all the information that you can get from it posted. Plus, there is nothing to stop you from just generating a new key. Old one stops working after you do this.
Full API I can not give out. Not because I care about them seeing my wallet transactions, but because I director level api keys would compromise my corp mates security. It gives the location of every member in the corp (directors can see this ingame). It would also show where all of our POS are.
As far as survaliance is concerned, we normally only check it once to see if you meet our requirements (10mil sp) and that you do not have any questionable alts. Yes, it does not stop spies completely, but it does make them work harder.
We also use apikeys to verify identity to forums/TS. Think of it as a driver license. I'm sure every time you write a check or buy some booze some clerk ask you to see it. Some shady people can actually do some damage with that information.
But what it really comes down to, if someone really does not want to provide there api key, I really do not care if they are in my corp and alliance.
POS-Tracker 2.1.0 Hosting |
Johnathan Roark
Caldari Quantum Industries RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2009.02.17 06:39:00 -
[134]
Originally by: Kanikara Funny thing is...
Having the api, screenshot of the login screen , etc..
Does nothing to stop corp theft at all.
George can be an honest soul on the api, login... and then just decide to snag everything in the corporate hangars.. for kicks and change the api... sell off the items and roll a new character (or switch back to the main)
Nope, but it makes them work harder, and we are more worried about spies then corp thieves. Plus, in our situation, that alt would need at least 10 mil sp, and probably end up sending 6 months in corp to get low level access. We normally only recruit people if they know someone already in corp.
POS-Tracker 2.1.0 Hosting |
Sir Substance
Minmatar MagiTech Alliance Inc. MagiTech Corp
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Posted - 2009.02.17 06:43:00 -
[135]
Originally by: TimMc Can see if you are an alt, or have some. However obviously miss alt accounts.
Can also see your skills, alot of CEOs keep members on evemon to monitor what they are training and ***** at them if its carebear stuff.
a corp that tells you what to train is a corp not worth being in.
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Dors Venabily
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Posted - 2009.02.17 06:49:00 -
[136]
Originally by: FIX IT So many people ready and willing to just give up their basic right to privacy. I would never give out my api to a random stranger.
It has nothing to do with hiding anything. You need not be a criminal of any sort to not like wire taps and surveillance. Further more I would have no desire to be a in a Corp full of people, half of whom are the sort who wish the power that looking into other peoples lives gives them, and the other half being the. pardon me, "sheep" who would willingly give up their privacy, and in a game at that where their benefits from it are not even real.
Want another reason? APIs mean nothing? Well when was the last time the ceo of that corp offered you HIS api in exchange for yours? I -might- consider giving my api, should I receive APIs of the ceo and all the directors. But I guess they will have reasons to keep their privacy while a recruit is supposed to give up his? Despicable.
And for those who claim this gives security - you are dreaming. Every major corp and alliance is infiltrated by spies and corp thieves waiting for their chance. deal with it, and try to make your corp be a fun place to be, even for a spy. and spies are often great member as they work hard to fit in and be valuable.
This if you want my api then give me yours :D
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Dors Venabily
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Posted - 2009.02.17 06:56:00 -
[137]
So since ther is bunch of CEO's in this thread If someone like me for example is in the interview to join will say i have 2 accounts i tell you the name of both characters(will never give you login screen char selection you can have) one of them wants to join your 0.0 alliance one is my empire fallback and I can provide limited apis for both. Would that be enough yes no maybe provided the other account is in npc or small empire corp. Just making a little research about the level of paranoia.
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Durty Nell
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2009.02.17 08:12:00 -
[138]
Originally by: Carniflex About possibilities of going into 0.0 without having to apply corp with API verification -- it is ofc possible, there is plenty of those around, some of them desperate enough to recruit anything that glances at their direction without any background cheks whatsoever. However - most 'real' groups are either invite only (ie - they don't know you - no entry with or without api) or with tight security procedures. And most corps in NPC zerozero are even more paranoid than the 'regular' zerozero corps in my impression.
Some of those small desperate-for-members corporations will work out in the end however I suspect it's somewhat painful process when harsh life in EVE wears down the idealism of it's leadership, assuming the leaders have other mental properties that are needed to run sucsessful zerozero corp. More often than not that kind of corporation folds or merges into 'proper' corporation (in what case the 'establised' corp they merge into does the needed background cheks usually)
You do realise that your text comes across as having an air of superiority, or do you?
No offence mate and I donÆt want to appear facetious but just as a quick example I can tell you that some of the earliest recorded activity, in game, as Carniflex was in and around HED-GP the 0.0 entry point into Catch. This is back in the day when StarHunt was a member Corp of FIX. From other information gathered it wouldnÆt be a stone throw away to been able to deduce CarniflexÆs play times among other more interesting facts. For example there is a disparity in Killmail statistics from Dec 2005 until March 2006 and again from May 2006 till March 2008.
As I have mentioned this hiatus in Kill Statistics from Dec 2005 till March 2006 brings to light a definite play style change where Carniflex appears again this time in Amarr a 1.0 security system. Then again from May 2006 till March 2008 beggars even more questions. If I was recruiting Carniflex I would be interested to know just what exactly Carniflex was doing during this 2 year period. Incidentally I was able to trace other information which I donÆt feel is relevant to the discussion and therefore not included in this text.
All achieved without the use of an API of any kind.
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Myrhial Arkenath
Ghost Festival
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Posted - 2009.02.17 08:27:00 -
[139]
You know you can change your API key right? So after supplying it to get checked out you simply change that.
CEO | Diary of a pod pilot |
Carniflex
Caldari StarHunt Systematic-Chaos
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Posted - 2009.02.17 08:46:00 -
[140]
Originally by: Durty Nell
Originally by: Carniflex About possibilities of going into 0.0 without having to apply corp with API verification -- it is ofc possible, there is plenty of those around, some of them desperate enough to recruit anything that glances at their direction without any background cheks whatsoever. However - most 'real' groups are either invite only (ie - they don't know you - no entry with or without api) or with tight security procedures. And most corps in NPC zerozero are even more paranoid than the 'regular' zerozero corps in my impression.
Some of those small desperate-for-members corporations will work out in the end however I suspect it's somewhat painful process when harsh life in EVE wears down the idealism of it's leadership, assuming the leaders have other mental properties that are needed to run sucsessful zerozero corp. More often than not that kind of corporation folds or merges into 'proper' corporation (in what case the 'establised' corp they merge into does the needed background cheks usually)
You do realise that your text comes across as having an air of superiority, or do you?
No offence mate and I donÆt want to appear facetious but just as a quick example I can tell you that some of the earliest recorded activity, in game, as Carniflex was in and around HED-GP the 0.0 entry point into Catch. This is back in the day when StarHunt was a member Corp of FIX. From other information gathered it wouldnÆt be a stone throw away to been able to deduce CarniflexÆs play times among other more interesting facts. For example there is a disparity in Killmail statistics from Dec 2005 until March 2006 and again from May 2006 till March 2008.
As I have mentioned this hiatus in Kill Statistics from Dec 2005 till March 2006 brings to light a definite play style change where Carniflex appears again this time in Amarr a 1.0 security system. Then again from May 2006 till March 2008 beggars even more questions. If I was recruiting Carniflex I would be interested to know just what exactly Carniflex was doing during this 2 year period. Incidentally I was able to trace other information which I donÆt feel is relevant to the discussion and therefore not included in this text.
All achieved without the use of an API of any kind.
Yep - proper security chek should indeed come up with this information and with all the names where Carniflex has posted in forums to buy GTC asking it to go for any other character than himself. However non-API chek will fail identify any characters that might hint that recruiting Carniflex might involve conflict of interests. While my 'main' character is quite vocal in forums there is whole pile of other chars in woodwork, some of them in positions that might rise some red flags in some corporations. The general background chek should come up with rough number of accounts one would expect to see.
Not trying to sound 'superior' - I'm just talking from personal experience. StarHunt used to be rather small invite only corporation (less than 20), sometime later it started to recruit to grow (as in zerozero meatgrinder needs fresh meat always). At first it was the usual 'recruit, give low acsess for first 6 months, upgrade later', but there were some loss of equipment (before API was intruduced) and it took our security team a while to track down the thief and it is not good at all to be in corp knowing one of your mates is thief. It would be easier nowdays. CEO will go over directors adv API's, then directors clear security officers and then security officers go over adv API's of memebers. Nowdays StarHunt will ask limited API from every recruit and do proper background chek for every character on those account(s). If ends don't meet advanced API is asked. No API - no entry. We have had no issues with corp theft of late other than one teenager blowing a fuse and making a run for it, but against that no API will help.
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Rakshasa Taisab
Caldari Sane Industries Inc.
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Posted - 2009.02.17 09:02:00 -
[141]
Originally by: Cedric Diggory Edited by: Cedric Diggory on 15/02/2009 14:30:03
Quote: I'm an American living in Japan...I can say that the Japanese honor and work ethic is vastly exaggerated in the western world.
As a brit who worked in Chiba near Tokyo, I will second this statement. Long hours, lazy workers, just as many bastards as <insert country name here>.
Thirded. And the Japanese girl I asked, said Kenzoku is never used. ^_^
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