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Jack Bombardier
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Posted - 2009.02.26 11:07:00 -
[31]
A quick question about the "Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution"
I know you buy "Scan Resolution" like ammo for it but does it even consume "Scan Resolution"?
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Tractory
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Posted - 2009.02.26 11:21:00 -
[32]
It is not consumed no. It is more a coding system that tells your sensor booster to lock faster rather than worry about the range side of things.
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Jack Bombardier
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Posted - 2009.02.26 11:26:00 -
[33]
Figured as much. Seems like an excellent setup. Especially considering the lack of criticism it has received, and on this forum of all places.
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Gorefacer
Caldari Resurrection Skunk-Works
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Posted - 2009.02.26 11:52:00 -
[34]
So you'll engage at 30km and less, there will be other BS in your gang, and you'll likely fight in empire wars or low sec as well as maybe some 0.0?
All that screams Raven to me.
You can get 1k+ DPS heavy neut and TP primaries. Replace 3 Ravens or more for the replacement cost of 1 Cerb. I see virtually no reason to use Cerb in your circumstance.
If your gang is armor RR setup you can play with those armor tanking setups. If not I'd forget armor, fit BCUs, let your gang mates tackle, and tear up as much as you can before your buffer shield tank fails.
"You can't reason someone out of a belief they haven't reasoned themselves into" - Prometheus |
Tractory
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Posted - 2009.02.26 12:34:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Jack Bombardier Edited by: Jack Bombardier on 26/02/2009 11:34:14 Figured as much. Seems like an excellent setup. Especially considering the lack of criticism it has received, and on this forum of all places.
Can you salvage other players ships?
Re salvaging yes you can salvage other players ships, but you will need salvage lvl 3 or more to salvage a T2 wreck.
And as for the criticism, give it time, and im sure it will come, and some of it no doubt will be well founded and well thought out ;)
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Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N. Dara Cothrom
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Posted - 2009.02.26 14:01:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Gypsio III If your gang is going into unbookmarked space, an option is to have an interceptor pilot MWD around acting as a mobile warp-to point. This will help your Falcons as well.
Good point. In fact having your ECCM cerb close by the gang's Falcon is a very good combo. They both operate at about the same range envelope, and any hostile Falcon that tries counter-jamming will have to choose very carefully where to commit it's 1 - or at best 2 - Gravimetric ECMs. The Cerb can also nail any fast ships that try a rush attack on the Falcon.
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Jack Bombardier
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Posted - 2009.02.28 08:06:00 -
[37]
By the way. Why are all missiles kinetic damage? Wouldnt it be good to mix the kind of damage you deal?
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.02.28 08:40:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Jack Bombardier By the way. Why are all missiles kinetic damage? Wouldnt it be good to mix the kind of damage you deal?
Most missile ships get a kinetic damage bonus. The Raven is one of the few exceptions, and in that one you should definitely carry a full mix. Either way though, on Caldari ships either Kinetic is your best damage type, or it's equal with all the rest, hence why it's often used in setup descriptions.
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Jack Bombardier
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Posted - 2009.02.28 08:54:00 -
[39]
Edited by: Jack Bombardier on 28/02/2009 08:55:01 Oh shot. I was hoping for an answer that would defend it. Now I have to go buy 4 different torpedoes and my cargo hold is deemed to look like a box of candy.
Meanwhile doesn't everyone use kinetic and thermic hardeners? Wouldn't it be greatly beneficial to focus on EM and explosive damage?
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Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2009.02.28 11:53:00 -
[40]
Kinetic is a decent damage type to use against T1 ships. Against T2 resists, it's not so good. If you're shooting T2 Caldari or Gallente, never use kinetic missiles if you can help it (use EM or Explosive).
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Cletus Graeme
Caldari Duty.
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Posted - 2009.02.28 21:24:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Gypsio III Kinetic is a decent damage type to use against T1 ships. Against T2 resists, it's not so good. If you're shooting T2 Caldari or Gallente, never use kinetic missiles if you can help it (use EM or Explosive).
Ironically, it's actually pretty good matari/amarr armor tanks as kinetic is their second weakest resist so it's a hole that sometimes doesn't get filled.
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Cletus Graeme
Caldari Duty.
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Posted - 2009.02.28 21:34:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Jack Bombardier Help me decide here. The Raven can absorb a lot more damage. What speaks in favour of the Cerberus?
James' post really provides you with a good answer but to summarise:
Torp Raven - high damage, close range, medoicre tank, best vs other BS but shield tanks makes it unsuitable for RR gangs. You can try to armor tank it but it kinda sux.
Cruise Raven - long range anti-support, good tank, poor damage (esp since QR missile nerf) and poor dps (due to missile flight time). Only really worth using if you can't fly or afford a Cerb.
HAM Drake - close range, high damage, good tank. great for small gang engangment near gates/stations so ideal for empire pvp and wardecs. Main drawback is poor range and mobility.
HAM Cerb - close range, high damage, good mobility, crap tank. Nice dps in roaming gangs but you need to be VERY careful about getting too close cos you're made of paper.
HML Cerb - long range, medium damage, anti-support, crap tank (your range is your tank). Does the job of a Cruise Raven but is much better because Heavies are kill support faster than Cruise. However it costs more than the Raven and can't be insured. Like all missile ships it suffers from delayed damage due to missile flight time.
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Jack Bombardier
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Posted - 2009.02.28 23:13:00 -
[43]
So it's Drake now?
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Cletus Graeme
Caldari Duty.
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Posted - 2009.02.28 23:19:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Jack Bombardier So it's Drake now?
Your initial question was: Raven or Cerb? I believe we've answered it for you. I included the HAM Drake for completeness but it's infact OT.
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Jack Bombardier
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Posted - 2009.02.28 23:33:00 -
[45]
So the drake is better than the raven?
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Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N. Dara Cothrom
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Posted - 2009.03.01 00:08:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Jack Bombardier So the drake is better than the raven?
There is no "better"; there are only roles. Decide what role you want and choose a ship to fit it.
For solo work I would definitely chose a drake over a raven because apart from anything else the drake is quite a bit faster, and locks faster too. And it's cheaper, so when I inevitably get blobbed, the loss is less. If I was in a gang of 6-7 I would prefer a cerb, because the cerb can make falcons go away, whilst the drakes missiles won't even get close.
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.03.01 01:09:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Jack Bombardier So the drake is better than the raven?
No, the Drake is _different_.
Drake is better when you want a ... drake style ship, for a drake style fight.
But sometimes, the only thing that is truly cool is raven awesome spanking.
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Jack Bombardier
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Posted - 2009.03.01 11:12:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Tractory
[Raven, torps and armor] 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Damage Control II Armor Kinetic Hardener II Armor Thermic Hardener II
ECCM - Gravimetric II Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution ECCM - Gravimetric II Warp Disruptor II Target Painter II
Siege Missile Launcher II, Juggernaut Rage Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Juggernaut Rage Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Juggernaut Rage Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Juggernaut Rage Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Juggernaut Rage Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Juggernaut Rage Torpedo Large 'Arup' I Remote Bulwark Reconstruction Salvager I
Anti-Explosive Pump I Anti-Kinetic Pump I Anti-Thermic Pump I
Hammerhead II x5
Would it be more effective to switch the laser for a web?
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Thenoran
Caldari Tranquility Industries
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Posted - 2009.03.01 11:21:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Tractory
[Raven, torps and armor] 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Damage Control II Armor Kinetic Hardener II Armor Thermic Hardener II
ECCM - Gravimetric II Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution ECCM - Gravimetric II Warp Disruptor II Target Painter II
Siege Missile Launcher II, Juggernaut Rage Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Juggernaut Rage Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Juggernaut Rage Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Juggernaut Rage Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Juggernaut Rage Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Juggernaut Rage Torpedo Large 'Arup' I Remote Bulwark Reconstruction Salvager I
Anti-Explosive Pump I Anti-Kinetic Pump I Anti-Thermic Pump I
Hammerhead II x5
Can't hit anything that's out of range though and as for Rigs, Armor Rigs will double the cost of the ship. Take out the Warp Disruptor (without MWD what good will it really do?) and fit a LSE and 2xEM Shield Rig and 1xThermal rig. Bit more HP, better shield resists and it saves you roughly 60mil in rigs without killing what little speed you have. ------------------------ Low-sec is like sailing along the coast of Somalia...
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Jack Bombardier
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Posted - 2009.03.01 11:37:00 -
[50]
Edited by: Jack Bombardier on 01/03/2009 11:37:55 So more EM resistance for the shield at the cost of the +45% armor increase from rigs?
Is that a better solution or just a less expensive one?
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Thenoran
Caldari Tranquility Industries
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Posted - 2009.03.01 19:43:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Jack Bombardier Edited by: Jack Bombardier on 01/03/2009 11:37:55 So more EM resistance for the shield at the cost of the +45% armor increase from rigs?
Is that a better solution or just a less expensive one?
You get a significant increase in Shield HP and resistance, compensating for the reduction in armor. And yes, it saves you roughly 60 million, which is quite substantial seeing that it's 75% of the base price of the ship you want to put the rigs on. ------------------------ Low-sec is like sailing along the coast of Somalia...
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Jack Bombardier
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Posted - 2009.03.01 20:01:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Thenoran You get a significant increase in Shield HP and resistance, compensating for the reduction in armor. And yes, it saves you roughly 60 million, which is quite substantial seeing that it's 75% of the base price of the ship you want to put the rigs on.
Can anyone else give their input on this?
Does the increase in shield resilience compensate for the lost armor HP?
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.03.01 21:32:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Jack Bombardier
Originally by: Thenoran You get a significant increase in Shield HP and resistance, compensating for the reduction in armor. And yes, it saves you roughly 60 million, which is quite substantial seeing that it's 75% of the base price of the ship you want to put the rigs on.
Can anyone else give their input on this?
Does the increase in shield resilience compensate for the lost armor HP?
If you are buffer tanking, then it doesn't really matter where the hitpoints come from - moving them to favour shield though has the singular advantage that shield recharge automatically.
That said, I wouldn't tend to when looking at that kind of Raven set up - it's geared up towards being armour remote repaired, at which point increasing armour resists is better - those resists are a multiplier to hitpoints, which includes the hitpoints generated by the repair cycle.
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Thenoran
Caldari Tranquility Industries
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Posted - 2009.03.01 23:43:00 -
[54]
Again though, unless you have a lot of ISK to waste, the difference between using 3 shield rigs costing 5mil each and using 3 armor rigs costing 20-25mil each (and reducing your speed) is substantial, the small amount of potential HP lost is worth it, no?
I'd rather lose an 80mil ship with 30mil in fittings and rigs with say total HP of 120k, than to lose the same ship with nearly 100mil in fittings and around 130k of health.
Your choice ofcourse ------------------------ Low-sec is like sailing along the coast of Somalia...
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Trader20
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Posted - 2009.03.02 00:00:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Jack Bombardier Edited by: Jack Bombardier on 28/02/2009 08:55:01 Oh shot. I was hoping for an answer that would defend it. Now I have to go buy 4 different torpedoes and my cargo hold is deemed to look like a box of candy.
Meanwhile doesn't everyone use kinetic and thermic hardeners? Wouldn't it be greatly beneficial to focus on EM and explosive damage?
Yup em for shield tanking ships and ex for armor tankers....because dealing over 1k dps to your weakest resist makes the torp raven suck
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Trader20
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Posted - 2009.03.02 00:05:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Jack Bombardier Edited by: Jack Bombardier on 01/03/2009 11:37:55 So more EM resistance for the shield at the cost of the +45% armor increase from rigs?
Is that a better solution or just a less expensive one?
This is tricky because unless you know wat ur fighting u can't tell wether certain resist will help u, thats why I just stick invuls in the mids and fit extenders rigs
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Tractory
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Posted - 2009.03.02 06:37:00 -
[57]
Q. Would it be more effective to switch the painter for a web? A. This is a small gang set up. Ideally you have a webber in gang anyway so webber of your own is not necessary. TP has much better range and all gang members damaged is increased by your painter i believe.
The ship is built around remote rep, so shield tanking while cheaper in terms of rigging does eat into your e-war effectiveness. We are pvp here, not tanking lvl 4's. Rigs i did mention as optional. Either way the loss is still less than losing a cerb with them fitted, so cost based on the original posters question is irrelevant.
Range - again this was designed to sit on gates or warp to gang tacklers and be a short ranged weapons platform. Without a gang it is indeed limited but it isnt designed as a solo ship. Fitting cruise missiles is also questionable, sure you have better range but flight time is a killer at any kind of range...
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Jack Bombardier
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Posted - 2009.03.02 08:52:00 -
[58]
What about a versatile solo setup? Lately I have been finding myself with only a frigate from the gang as company while we search for enemies.
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Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N. Dara Cothrom
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Posted - 2009.03.02 09:57:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Jack Bombardier What about a versatile solo setup? Lately I have been finding myself with only a frigate from the gang as company while we search for enemies.
But that's the ideal situation for a cerb or a raven. If you can get someone else to do the tackling, then these ships are extremely effective.
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Jack Bombardier
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Posted - 2009.03.02 10:05:00 -
[60]
I suppose you're right. I never thought of it like that.
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