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Dala Kya
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Posted - 2009.07.07 23:18:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Dala Kya on 07/07/2009 23:25:07 I don't want to whine, i simply want to ask some advice, or, i don't know, i want to share my thoughts.
I'm mostly a casual player, unluckly i don't have a lot of time to play, even if i would love to, so i can run mission 1 or 2 hours every night (or even less). The problem is that always more often, and just when my mission is almost completed, some guys enter my 'plex' and start looting and salvaging. When they loot they become 'red blinky' so i know i could shoot them, but i know too that they will simply come back with bigger ships and neutrals repairing them and i would loose my ship.
So i end up popping my own wrecks.
But this means that:
*) if the mission had more than 1 pocket, the previous ones were already been salvaged/looted **) if the npc had no bounties (happens a lot tbh) i make no money at all
So after 1 hour of playing i only earn 2 or 3 millions, how am i supposed to buy ships to play with my friends? And why those guys must get reward for doing nothing? Earning isks for my work?
Again, i'm not complaining, it's a game mechanic, ok, but as i said, these are some thoughts of a casual player that has difficulties making money and see other people being rewarded for his 'work'.
Then i was thinking: why don't remove any loot from npc and convert it to bounties or mission reward? This would even solve the "reprocess loots and get a lot of minerals without mining" problem, wouldn't it? So only wrecks would stay (of course, else the rig market would see a dark era probably eheh).
Your thoughts?
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Miss Much
Minmatar Republic University
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Posted - 2009.07.07 23:24:00 -
[2]
Move into the country... Millions of peaches, peaches for free/me.
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temponita
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Posted - 2009.07.07 23:37:00 -
[3]
Edited by: temponita on 07/07/2009 23:37:43
Originally by: Dala Kya Your thoughts?
There are several options that would either minimize or eliminate this nuisance all together.
1) Get into a Marauder. Sure... so called Ninj Salvagers talk-it-up like there owning all whom dare to mission, but reality dictates that a well trained Marauder pilot rarely(if ever) worries about such problems.
2) Avoid missioning in popular areas. Again... there are so many areas in Eve space with good agents and low activity that it pretty much solves the issue in itself.
3) Get those skills! Another big factor in Ninja Salvagers is the time factor! Aside from locating you, a NS will have to scan you down and this means time is of the essense. If you clear rooms in less than 10 min. then you are ahead of the game. And if you couple this with efficient salvaging then you're even further ahead.
4) Use an alt! Actually, it isn't nearly as hard as it sounds. Using an Alt will not only ensure that you clear those rooms in record times, but you will also salvage them as you go along, which pretty much seals the deal on things.
While I don't use an alt(Marauder only), I can assure you that these techniques and a little care will prove to be your best friend. I've been doing lvl 4 missions for over a year now and I have never(not once) lost a wreck to these infamous Ninja Salvager. Though I would love to see one try one day just to see how that would work out :p
Hope this helps, and happy salvaging!
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.07.07 23:42:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Dala Kya Your thoughts?
It's a PVP game. Salvage BEFORE they can salvage "your" wrecks. If they loot your wrecks, SHOOT THEM (and hope you survive the counterattack).
EVE issues|Mining revamp|Build stuff|Make ISK |
Gin G
Halls Of Valhalla
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Posted - 2009.07.08 00:27:00 -
[5]
there is NO problem
as ccp have staten many MANY many MANY times before its working like it should
so please
SHUT UP Please refrain from editing a moderator's warning. Zymurgist |
Kaila Fate
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Posted - 2009.07.08 01:01:00 -
[6]
I'm actually offended here. Seriously? "SHUT UP"? Here is a guy PAYING FOR A PRODUCT who CLEARLY STATED that he was just asking for advice/wanted to vent a little.
And the most constructive thing you can say is "shut up" Why do you bother to post? Are you really that bored?
Anyway, Dala, I've found a tactic that seems to work for me when doing missions in populated areas, I run a salvage alt while running missions, but you could likely make it work w/o one if cost is an issue.
I would recommend segregating your kills. Frequently you can pull 'groups', for example a group will aggro you when you warp in, but the others will not, kill this group (frequently 1/3) and loot/salvage them. Then attack a single ship, and see who targets you, kill them and loot/salvage.
This way if one of those pesky ninja salvagers shows up you can simply warp back to the station and let the group you were fighting retarget to their little frigate. Or if you were in the loot/salvage stage you've minimized your losses to a single group instead of the whole pocket. |
GGjita
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Posted - 2009.07.08 01:48:00 -
[7]
Find an L4 agent that not many people use. Since it doesn't sound like you are blitzing the missions for LP using a less popular agent that pays less should not really affect you. The agent i use very rarely has more than 30 folks in the system. In the 5 months i've been using him i have seen 0 people in my missions. Even when i used to run 5-6 missions before coming back to salvage my wrecks would be left alone.
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Alberico DeSandre
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Posted - 2009.07.08 04:14:00 -
[8]
Ninja salvagers go to the main mission hubs. There's no reason for them to go anywhere else.
Like the other poster said, since you only do a few missions now and then with limited play time, the loyalty point rewards probably don't matter much to you. That means you'd be fine missioning for a lower quality level 4 agent, one that is far from a mission hub.
The 100% best way to solve this problem is to find an agent in a less populated area. That is what I had to do.
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SleeZe
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2009.07.08 04:28:00 -
[9]
Edited by: SleeZe on 08/07/2009 04:29:20 I'm a casual player and I'm very bothered with this and why does ccp say it's working as intended ? So this is the frustration feature I've been hearing about, this is such a great idea that it makes people get the hell away from your game.
This feature kills the game for me because wrecks are my main income and when ninjas take that I'm left with scraps, when I do missions I expect those plexes to be private since It's my mission and my work I put into it. Also I don't see the reason to race against these guys it takes away my casual experience if I have too worry about ninjas all the time.
Dear, CCP would you please reconsider this on mission plexes, this is seriously putting me off on your game and you don't want that now do you ?
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Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.07.08 04:52:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Kahega Amielden on 08/07/2009 04:55:38
Originally by: SleeZe Edited by: SleeZe on 08/07/2009 04:29:20 I'm a casual player and I'm very bothered with this and why does ccp say it's working as intended ? So this is the frustration feature I've been hearing about, this is such a great idea that it makes people get the hell away from your game.
This feature kills the game for me because wrecks are my main income and when ninjas take that I'm left with scraps, when I do missions I expect those plexes to be private since It's my mission and my work I put into it. Also I don't see the reason to race against these guys it takes away my casual experience if I have too worry about ninjas all the time.
Dear, CCP would you please reconsider this on mission plexes, this is seriously putting me off on your game and you don't want that now do you ?
christ your sense of entitlement is amazing.
Hisec missionrunning are the most overpowered profession in the game bar none. There's no risk, no real difficulty, and is rivaled in profit potential only by 0.0 ratting and complexes.
The fact that you just can't survive running hisec level 4s without salvage is just asinine.
If you just want a fun, "Casual experience" without any risk, run level 2s or even 3s.. No one will bother you there.
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Candaan
Caldari FACTION Inc.
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Posted - 2009.07.08 05:03:00 -
[11]
I am in exactly the same boat as the OP, and had my first ninja slavager 'intrusion' last night.
Some solutions I have thought of;
a. let them salvage, and when the salvaging is done, any items that were in the wreck get automatically put into a container, so the original mission runner can have them.
b. make wrecks timed for a period, and linked to the mission runner, if they arent looted within x minutes, they are free for all.
c. something else.....
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Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.07.08 05:19:00 -
[12]
Quote:
a. let them salvage, and when the salvaging is done, any items that were in the wreck get automatically put into a container, so the original mission runner can have them.
This already happens.
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Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2009.07.08 05:33:00 -
[13]
If salvage is your main form of income, you need to get to the salvage before anyone else does. There's nothings topping people probing your mission-space down and shooting all the NPCs to collect the bounties themselves either.
The wrecks aren't your property.
As mentioned earlier, move to less populated systems or just put up with the fact that you are competing with the rest of the server for the right to salvage the wreck, and someone else beat you to it.
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Kher'Aleer
Caldari Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2009.07.08 05:35:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Alberico DeSandre
Like the other poster said, since you only do a few missions now and then with limited play time, the loyalty point rewards probably don't matter much to you. That means you'd be fine missioning for a lower quality level 4 agent, one that is far from a mission hub. quote]
^ This. ^ Adapt and prosper. It's not hard, really. Find your new, solitarity agent here. eve-agents.com
or
Get some friends...and... work together?
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Marko box
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Posted - 2009.07.08 05:43:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Miss Much Move into the country... Millions of peaches, peaches for free/me.
Great song!
On topic: I lost my first ship by shooting 20 day old ninja salvager with my bc ( he got back in a blaster fitted rokh and blow me into oblivion ). So dont shoot them with your missioning ship! If you set up an alt for salvaging make one char for suicide ganking, and have him ready in case a ninja invades your mis. Some of their frigs and cruisers are rigged and expensivly fitted. Put him in your corp and if he takes your loot kill him without concord interfering, if he doesnt try ganking him just to make this game little balanced risk wise. By my opinion ninja salvaging is by far the least risky and careberish proffesion in eve, and whatever ninja salvagers say they are the greatest carebears of us all
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Candaan
Caldari FACTION Inc.
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Posted - 2009.07.08 05:46:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Kahega Amielden
Quote:
a. let them salvage, and when the salvaging is done, any items that were in the wreck get automatically put into a container, so the original mission runner can have them.
This already happens.
Since when ?
My ninja salvager friend didn't leave behind and little deposits.
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Future Mutant
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Posted - 2009.07.08 05:58:00 -
[17]
Its a cruel world- deal with it ADAPT OR DIE
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Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.07.08 06:01:00 -
[18]
Quote:
Since when ?
My ninja salvager friend didn't leave behind and little deposits.
That means he was looting too.
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Brechan Skene
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Posted - 2009.07.08 06:54:00 -
[19]
To Dala Kya
Which faction and agent are you using? Where is this agent based? If you do not want to say here contact me ingame. I might be able to help.
Thankyou Brechan
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Aioa
Planetary Assault Systems
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Posted - 2009.07.08 07:18:00 -
[20]
Originally by: SleeZe Edited by: SleeZe on 08/07/2009 04:29:20 I'm a casual player and I'm very bothered with this and why does ccp say it's working as intended ? So this is the frustration feature I've been hearing about, this is such a great idea that it makes people get the hell away from your game.
This feature kills the game for me because wrecks are my main income and when ninjas take that I'm left with scraps, when I do missions I expect those plexes to be private since It's my mission and my work I put into it. Also I don't see the reason to race against these guys it takes away my casual experience if I have too worry about ninjas all the time.
Dear, CCP would you please reconsider this on mission plexes, this is seriously putting me off on your game and you don't want that now do you ?
Haha good one. Some people are actually like this!
Oh god, you were joking, weren't you? --
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Nika Dekaia
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Posted - 2009.07.08 07:59:00 -
[21]
Salvage was never meant to boost the mission runners income. It's a nice bonus, but you are not entitled to it if you can't get it before someone else does.
Your idea is bad. That would inject even more liquid isk out of thin air into the economy and cause inflation (as to where the isk from loot comes from other players)
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Havohej
Minmatar Du'uma Fiisi Integrated Astrometrics
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Posted - 2009.07.08 08:30:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Havohej on 08/07/2009 08:31:05
Originally by: temponita I have never(not once) lost a wreck to these infamous Ninja Salvager. Though I would love to see one try one day just to see how that would work out :p
Orbit your marauder at 500m and salvage the wrecks as you pull them in with your mighty 40km tractor beam. You get some with your 2 salvagers (max), I get more with my 4 salvagers (on average). It's pretty simple, really.
edit: and if I actually loot one of your cans, you'd better believe I know damned good and well I've got a ship that can handle your marauder just fine docked up in-system so please... by all means, shoot me.
"You can still steal their stuff." - CCP Explorer
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Niko Takahashi
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Posted - 2009.07.08 08:52:00 -
[23]
Well other then moving out of popular mission systems you can't really do much.
Think of the ninjas as a RL homeless bums that dig through the trash cans. Since they can't do anything productive they live of your scraps.
I don't mind them usually but there is one part of the Game mechanics which is really screwed up and that is the neutral remote reping guy. That is really a problem if you choose to shoot his ass out of the water and also it messes with the empire wars quite a bit or it did I was gone for while. This problem should be addressed.
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Kayna Eelai
Gallente Paxton Industries Paxton Federation
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Posted - 2009.07.08 10:52:00 -
[24]
Originally by: temponita Edited by: temponita on 07/07/2009 23:37:43
Originally by: Dala Kya Your thoughts?
There are several options that would either minimize or eliminate this nuisance all together.
1) Get into a Marauder. 4) Use an alt!
so, the guy sais he's a casual player with a few hours per day max and that he's got problems making isk... and u suggest him getting a marauder? or paying extra RL money for a second account?
here's my advice, and you don't need a marauder for it: - salvage on the run. use 2 highslots for a tractor beam and salvager and get the salvage while you're still killing stuff. take only best named loot or none at all to not fill your cargo. salvage itself doesn't need much cargo. chances are that when a ninja joins your plex and sees only cans and no wrecks, he'll leave anyways - do like i do: tell him to GTFO and **** off, that you're not stupid enough to shoot him. and while you do this warp of the plex (assuming there are still NPC) so he get's aggro from them. ninjas usually come in a small ship first and when they see 15+ NPC locking them, they pee their pants and **** off. maybe they try it 2-3 times more and then give up and try to find something more stupid than you. - like others mentioned: go to another, less crowded area.
fixed to 23.15 kB (23710 bytes) |
Miss Much
Minmatar Republic University
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Posted - 2009.07.08 11:36:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Miss Much Off-topic.Applebabe
On topic: see the clip again, and learn from it. (Read: get some friends to kick ninjas ( | ). Or share those FREE peaches.)
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Some Advisor
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Posted - 2009.07.08 11:53:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Dala Kya I don't want to whine,
...but you do!
and "ninja salvager" arent a problem :P well for you maybe ehehe :)
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knobber Jobbler
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Posted - 2009.07.08 12:00:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Dala Kya
I'm mostly a casual player, unluckly i don't have a lot of time to play, even if i would love to, so i can run mission 1 or 2 hours every night (or even less). The problem is that always more often, and just when my mission is almost completed, some guys enter my 'plex' and start looting and salvaging.
Ok, the best answer to this problem is use a different misson agent.
Certain high quality agents have what can be best termed as a sphere of sh=t in there system and surrounding systems.
Motsu is a good example of this, highest quality level 4 agent in Caldari space. All the local systems where you are sent on missions are crawling with loot ninja's.
Just find a lower quality agent and run missions for them. Problem solved.
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Some Advisor
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Posted - 2009.07.08 12:16:00 -
[28]
of course there are "loot-ninjas" :) its like the dead birdy things that fly when a dying animal/person is about to.. expire.
or ****roaches. you cant get rid of them :)
but moving to a less busy system helps.. i never had an issue with uh "loot-ninjas"
just with the occasional pirates in lowsec :P
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Tippia
Raddick Explorations Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2009.07.08 12:21:00 -
[29]
Originally by: SleeZe I'm a casual player and I'm very bothered with this and why does ccp say it's working as intended ?
Because it is working as intended. You just don't like/understand what that intentions are.
Quote: This feature kills the game for me because wrecks are my main income and when ninjas take that I'm left with scraps, when I do missions I expect those plexes to be private since It's my mission and my work I put into it.
And this is where you go wrong. You are already rewarded for the work that goes into the mission: you get mission rewards, LP, bounties, status gain, and loot. Note the absence of savage from that list — it's for a very simple reason: salvage is not part of the mission rewards. They're an additional income stream that you have to do additional work for.
That's why not being flagged for ninja salvaging is working just as intended: they do exactly as much work as you do, and thus deserve the salvage just as much.
Quote: Also I don't see the reason to race against these guys it takes away my casual experience if I have too worry about ninjas all the time.
Because in a PvP game, competition for the resources is the natural state of things. If you don't want to compete, then this is not the game for you. It definitely should not be changed to fit your flawed expectations. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki |
Kane Starkiller
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Posted - 2009.07.08 12:47:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Kahega Amielden
Hisec missionrunning are the most overpowered profession in the game bar none. There's no risk, no real difficulty, and is rivaled in profit potential only by 0.0 ratting and complexes.
So trade isn't a profession in your book? I love how so many consider level 4s the best way to earn isk in high sec with no risk.
You do realize some people make billions without having to undock right?
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