Pages: 1 [2] 3 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Tippia
Raddick Explorations Intrepid Crossing
|
Posted - 2009.07.08 13:02:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Kane Starkiller So trade isn't a profession in your book? I love how so many consider level 4s the best way to earn isk in high sec with no risk.
You do realize some people make billions without having to undock right?
You do realise that you have to risk billions in order to do so, right? Risk exists without undocking. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki |
Takemikazuki
Celrydreahad Finance
|
Posted - 2009.07.08 13:04:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Kane Starkiller
Originally by: Kahega Amielden
Hisec missionrunning are the most overpowered profession in the game bar none. There's no risk, no real difficulty, and is rivaled in profit potential only by 0.0 ratting and complexes.
So trade isn't a profession in your book? I love how so many consider level 4s the best way to earn isk in high sec with no risk.
You do realize some people make billions without having to undock right?
Quite true about the profit part, but: as a trader you also stand the chance of loosing huge piles of ISK.
The worst risk facing the mission runner is loosing a ship - a risk that is close to none if you prepare yrself properly...
|
Nerhtal Al'Thali
Caldari Nisroc Angels
|
Posted - 2009.07.08 13:13:00 -
[33]
That makes ninja-salvaging risk free too!
"Game Experience And Dev Opinions May Change With The Time Of Day During Online Play" Oveur
"First in, last out" Bridgeburner Motto |
Salliene
Gallente The Scope
|
Posted - 2009.07.08 13:24:00 -
[34]
EVE is a game.
Some people keep score by the amount of ISK and modules they can collect. Some people keep score by the amount of stories and memories they can collect. I can remember many different times I ninja salvaged, stole ore, or engaged in piracy. I can't remember details about any mission that I have ever done or any ship that I ever bought.
Right now mission runners are *my* game content. You are in the game running missions so that *I* have something to do when I log in. Be proud of that fact - you are providing a very important service to me. You make the 1 or 2 hours a day I have to play enjoyable. So if I salvage your wrecks or steal your loot or even show up in my Domi and start killing your rats, be glad that you helped me out.
If you need a break from making the game fun for me, go to a different system.
|
Dzil
Caldari Banana Nut Pancakes
|
Posted - 2009.07.08 13:42:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Dala Kya Edited by: Dala Kya on 07/07/2009 23:25:07
So after 1 hour of playing i only earn 2 or 3 millions, how am i supposed to buy ships to play with my friends? And why those guys must get reward for doing nothing? Earning isks for my work? ... Again, i'm not complaining, it's a game mechanic, ok, but as i said, these are some thoughts of a casual player that has difficulties making money and see other people being rewarded for his 'work'. ... Then i was thinking: why don't remove any loot from npc and convert it to bounties or mission reward? This would even solve the "reprocess loots and get a lot of minerals without mining" problem, wouldn't it? So only wrecks would stay (of course, else the rig market would see a dark era probably eheh).
Your thoughts?
Couple things: 1) I appreciate that half your brain wanted to avoid annoying the forums with a whine thread. However, the other half appears to have written one anyways. Most threads that end in "Why don't we just overhaul the game's loot dynamics completely because I got owned" generally get thrown to the side as whining.
2) How often are you actually getting ninja salvaged? I've run hundreds of missions in Irjunen, probably the second most popular caldari hub to Motsu, and never saw a single one. I'd offer if you somehow figured out how to attract them regularly, get a corpmate in a fast tackler and fry them. Of course, since I ran them in a Drake it's entirely possible I was just overlooked as too slow to be worth stealing from.
3) If you think making isk off other people's work is uncommon in EVE, you've got a bit to learn, yet. Ever sell a piece of loot? More often than not, that's a player buying your stuff, often times with the intent to resell it higher for more money. I honestly feel it gives the younger player a leg up in the EVE universe - a chance to earn a couple mil/hour in a destroyer where trying to do that in l1 missions would be terrible.
---------------------- Dzil's Corp Sales - 200m for 7+ standings ---------------------- |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Dark-Rising
|
Posted - 2009.07.08 13:52:00 -
[36]
Quote:
So trade isn't a profession in your book? I love how so many consider level 4s the best way to earn isk in high sec with no risk.
You do realize some people make billions without having to undock right?
Few seconds of indecision costed me like a T2 fitted battlecruiser just yesterday. I did not move off a station, I lost a trade PvP match.
3 days ago Nocxium (and others) started climbing up price like crazy so I bought some millions units. Halfway the resale, the price tanked like a rock and I basically had 500M running in circles and getting back to me with no profit.
Of course I only lost what I could afford to lose.
Besides a most rare disconnect while being warp scrambled, what risks are you running again?
- Auditing and consulting
Before asking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h and http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
|
Dedalus77
The Logistical Nightmare
|
Posted - 2009.07.08 14:38:00 -
[37]
EVE is a PVP game, even if you are only a casual player. Every single aspect of the game is PVP, not just players shooting at each other, since we all all competing for the same set of finite resources.
Of course, since you are a mission runner you have chosen the one profession that is as far away from pvp as you can get since there is no finite number of missions, you can run that little isk faucet all day long, but that does not mean you should be immune to pvp interaction.
As for a solution to your problem, there is only really one, get out of the mission hubs. Go find a nice quiet place and run your little missions in peace.
|
Getting away
|
Posted - 2009.07.08 14:46:00 -
[38]
I FEED OFF CAREBEAR TEARS MUAHAHAHA
|
Dala Kya
|
Posted - 2009.07.08 15:03:00 -
[39]
Edited by: Dala Kya on 08/07/2009 15:04:39
Originally by: Getting away I FEED OFF CAREBEAR TEARS MUAHAHAHA
What tears? We are just discussing here, i can't see anybody crying to be honest
By the way, thank you to all the people who gave me tips and help, i'll try to change something in the way i run missions
edit: oh, about the guy that had bad feeling with me and my "idea" of removing loots and adding money to rewards: i never said that is a thing that MUST be done, i just thought about that and asked what other people think about it, it's one of the reasons to post on the forums, you know.
|
Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
|
Posted - 2009.07.08 15:21:00 -
[40]
Edited by: Kahega Amielden on 08/07/2009 15:26:22
Originally by: Kane Starkiller
Originally by: Kahega Amielden
Hisec missionrunning are the most overpowered profession in the game bar none. There's no risk, no real difficulty, and is rivaled in profit potential only by 0.0 ratting and complexes.
So trade isn't a profession in your book? I love how so many consider level 4s the best way to earn isk in high sec with no risk.
You do realize some people make billions without having to undock right?
Except trade actually requires a pulse, whereas missionrunning can be done by anyone with the SP and a mission fit they looked up on battleclinic. Also, you need to have invested a ridiculous amount of money before the actual ISK/Hr figure outdoes level 4 missionrunning. Did I mention that trading carries far more risk than missionrunning? Oh, and trading is competitive. Trade profits go down if more people start trading. Mission profits don't go down if more people run missions.
Also, trade hubs spring up around hisec mission hubs in most cases. Trade profitability is tied to mission profitability.
|
|
Akuma Kenatsuki
|
Posted - 2009.07.08 16:53:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Kahega Amielden Except trade actually requires a pulse, whereas missionrunning can be done by anyone with the SP and a mission fit they looked up on battleclinic. Also, you need to have invested a ridiculous amount of money before the actual ISK/Hr figure outdoes level 4 missionrunning. Did I mention that trading carries far more risk than missionrunning? Oh, and trading is competitive. Trade profits go down if more people start trading. Mission profits don't go down if more people run missions.
Also, trade hubs spring up around hisec mission hubs in most cases. Trade profitability is tied to mission profitability.
sooooo, NERF TRADING!!! yeah, that's it...
Anywho, just to reiterate, all things in eve have some risk involved. Just logging on even puts you at risk for seeing smacktalk in local, oh noes! If someone says there's no risk in something, they need o be suicide ganked as they undock in their little hub, in their faction fitted marauder in 1.0 space by a RR BS gang out for the lols...
As for the OP, I'd have to agree with the advice of previous posters. Adjust fitting/style to be able to loot/salvage the good bits while you run the pocket, and look for an agent off the beaten path both have worked for me. Looters will be in the game for its lifetime. As will gankers, PVP'ers, and carebears. People will claim to be "teh m0st l33t pie-rats" and "ub3r n1nja salvagers" in the game and so on. Just build up enough isk to replace what you need to keep running missions, keep your ship insured for those facepalm moments where it goes poof, and continue voicing your ideas when you feel it's necessary. As you said, it's what these forums are for.
/rant, let the flaming begin!
|
Kayna Eelai
Gallente Paxton Industries Paxton Federation
|
Posted - 2009.07.08 16:58:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Kahega Amielden ...trading...
at least mission running only affects the guy who is mission running and no one else...
traders screw up loads of people to make profit. if you don't believe me go to JITA and check the graph on +4 and +5 implants for last weeks.
fixed to 23.15 kB (23710 bytes) |
Dedalus77
The Logistical Nightmare
|
Posted - 2009.07.08 17:14:00 -
[43]
Of course mission running affects other people. You are buying ships, modules, drones and ammo which drives the prices up. You are dumping minerals from reprocessed loot onto the market driving prices down. You are clogging up mission hubs making it harder for pvpers to scan local to see if there are any war targets in the system (not to mention straining the server load). And finally, you are participating in the one activity in EVE in which resources are not constrained thereby affecting the overall valuation of the entire market.
But of course you are right, since you never actually interact with anyone you must not be affecting them
|
Tippia
Raddick Explorations Intrepid Crossing
|
Posted - 2009.07.08 17:15:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Kayna Eelai
Originally by: Kahega Amielden ...trading...
at least mission running only affects the guy who is mission running and no one else...
Uhm… I honestly think most mission runners use something other than their starter ship and civvy equipment, so no. They certainly affect lots of other people. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki |
Bellandra
Gallente
|
Posted - 2009.07.08 17:52:00 -
[45]
I use 2 accounts, with 2 domi's, one fitted with tractors, the other fitted with tech 2 savlagers. I have guns to shoot wrecks incase i can't get the wrecks first. After a while they get bored and annoyed and try to loot to get aggro, I then ignore them and either warp out so that npc's aggro them or just wait them out.
|
CommanderWorf
Abortion Burrito
|
Posted - 2009.07.08 18:21:00 -
[46]
I find popping wrecks the most effective deterrent - a little grief for the griefer
it's not like you're getting ninja'd on EVERY mission
if you are, you're missioning in the wrong system.
|
jagoff
Cosmic Cakes
|
Posted - 2009.07.08 18:25:00 -
[47]
solutions to counter ninjas:
1. fit a salvager on your BS, and salvage each wreck immediately after you kill it.
2. if the ninja takes loot, warp out and come back in a pvp ship, kill the ninja.
3. don't run missions where ninja's hang out. i have run hundreds of L4 missions and only encountered ninja's once, in a crowded hub. despite popular belief, there are good agents in systems that don't have hundreds of people.
4. fly a regular raven, or T1 BS... most ninja's will look specifically for CNR's or other "elite" ships.
5. when a ninja shows up, just finish the mission and quickly move on to the next one, letting the ninja have your salvage. half the fun of being a ninja isn't getting the salvage, it's hearing the missioner whine about ninjas. don't give them the satisfaction.
6. accept the fact that no one owns salvage. it's free to whoever gets to it first. just think, ninjas are accumulating salvage from your mission, but you still get to keep all the bounties and the LP, and the loot if the ninja's don't steal. so you aren't really losing out on that much.
|
Dimitryy
Gallente Ever Flow Atlas Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.07.08 18:33:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Candaan I am in exactly the same boat as the OP, and had my first ninja slavager 'intrusion' last night.
Some solutions I have thought of;
a. let them salvage, and when the salvaging is done, any items that were in the wreck get automatically put into a container, so the original mission runner can have them.
b. make wrecks timed for a period, and linked to the mission runner, if they arent looted within x minutes, they are free for all.
c. something else.....
A) Good idea. So good, its already implemented in game play, and has been for ages.
B) Terrible idea, wrecks should not be "owned" by anyone. It is not your right to make money in level 4 missions, nor are you entitled to the loot from what you killed. Your suggestion would make it easier to make money solo in empire, but CCP does not want to make it easier to make money solo in empire (Dimi knocks on wood), imo its already too easy. Best thing to do is have a friend/alt/corp mate salvage for you as you run it.
Also, something a friend of mine did when he was still living in highsec was when ninja salvagers would come in, he would hire them. You'd be surprised how many will accept a partial take in return for not having to waste time scanning, and you don't have to blow 1/2 hour to an hour+ cleaning the mish. Depending on the deal you work out, it can be win/win.
-Dimi ------------------------------------------
Jack Blackstone > Dimitryy I hope you die. |
Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
|
Posted - 2009.07.08 18:35:00 -
[49]
Quote:
1. fit a salvager on your BS, and salvage each wreck immediately after you kill it.
Doesn't help once the ninja in the mission, but does ensure that he wont be able to salvage old wrecks if he comes in late into the mission.
Quote: 2. if the ninja takes loot, warp out and come back in a pvp ship, kill the ninja.
I think you mean "shoot at the ninja with your PVE ship, and then continue running the mission normally"
Quote: 3. don't run missions where ninja's hang out. i have run hundreds of L4 missions and only encountered ninja's once, in a crowded hub. despite popular belief, there are good agents in systems that don't have hundreds of people.
Depends. Ninjas are spread out over a large number of hubs. Post-Apocrypha, and system that has even a comparatively small number of L4 runners is viable for ninjaing. That said, there's certainly a far higher ninja to missionrunner ratio in Motsu than some other places.
Quote: 4. fly a regular raven, or T1 BS... most ninja's will look specifically for CNR's or other "elite" ships.
Ehh, this is iffy. I personally don't care. I don't see what it is until I've gotten a book mark, and once I'm at the field, a wreck is a wreck. Quote:
6. accept the fact that no one owns salvage. it's free to whoever gets to it first. just think, ninjas are accumulating salvage from your mission, but you still get to keep all the bounties and the LP, and the loot if the ninja's don't steal. so you aren't really losing out on that much.
Best counter listed so far.
|
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
|
Posted - 2009.07.08 18:39:00 -
[50]
the best solution imo is get the hell out of a mission hub. non hub agents will have the same or better lp stores.
or if it is so easy for them train up astrometrics and go probe out some mission runners
|
|
Nin'ja Tamake
Caldari Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
|
Posted - 2009.07.08 20:27:00 -
[51]
Originally by: temponita
<snip>
1) Get into a Marauder. Sure... so called Ninj Salvagers talk-it-up like there owning all whom dare to mission, but reality dictates that a well trained Marauder pilot rarely(if ever) worries about such problems.
<snip>
I've been doing lvl 4 missions for over a year now and I have never(not once) lost a wreck to these infamous Ninja Salvager. Though I would love to see one try one day just to see how that would work out :p
I think there's a myth around Marauders and Ninja Salvaging. The topic came up for discussion with some new members on the Suddenly Ninjas channel just the other night - is it worth scanning down a Marauder?
While it's true that Marauders are able to complete missions while tractoring and salvaging their own wrecks, there are a number of tactics for getting the goods (and often some decent tears as well, precisely because many Marauder pilots think they're Ninja-proof). I scanned down one last night and came away with more than enough ISK to make it worth my while.
If you'd like a demonstration, message me in game.
Nin.
|
Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
|
Posted - 2009.07.08 21:02:00 -
[52]
The point of a marauder is that the rats that were popped before the ninja warps in get salvaged by the marauder. After the ninja warps in, though, every new wreck is easily the ninja's.
|
Ethidium
The Eleventh Commandment Dystopia Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.07.08 21:47:00 -
[53]
One more thing Re: marauders. They're quite easy to scan down, with my meager skills I get 100% at 4 au, so in a small system like Dodixie <3 its really quite easy to scan down 3 in the time it'd take to find a BS or BC (assuming there's that many in the system).
|
temponita
|
Posted - 2009.07.08 22:38:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Nin'ja Tamake I think there's a myth around Marauders and Ninja Salvaging. The topic came up for discussion with some new members on the Suddenly Ninjas channel just the other night - is it worth scanning down a Marauder?
LMAO! Well yes... because the infamous Ninja Salvagers have really made it impossible to salvage 1 year worth of wrecks without a single loss right?
You attempts fail. Just because you(claim) to of salvaged from noobs in Marauders, that doesn't mean you're any further ahead of the game. Like I said... I've been salvaging for a long time and It just never happens.
The instructions stand tried-and-true. Ninja Salvaging is nothing more than a bottom dwelling activity. While it works for noobs... a little experience and preparation renders it completely non-existent.
|
temponita
|
Posted - 2009.07.08 22:42:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Kahega Amielden The point of a marauder is that the rats that were popped before the ninja warps in get salvaged by the marauder. After the ninja warps in, though, every new wreck is easily the ninja's.
Well I have to say... who do you think you're dealing with here? If a(so called) Ninja Salvager sat in the room, do you honestly believe the mission runner would just keep trudging blindly? Of course not(no one is that stupid). He or she would simply leave the room and start up another mission(so simple). It's not like we don't have 6 days to complete the first one!
The entire Ninja Salvager threat to a Marauder is complete and utter fantasy. While I don't doubt some players could mess with the less experienced crowd, the notion that they could/or even grieve someone with experience is completely nonexistent.
Sweet dreams suckers!
|
Candaan
Caldari FACTION Inc.
|
Posted - 2009.07.08 23:46:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Dimitryy
Originally by: Candaan I am in exactly the same boat as the OP, and had my first ninja slavager 'intrusion' last night.
Some solutions I have thought of;
a. let them salvage, and when the salvaging is done, any items that were in the wreck get automatically put into a container, so the original mission runner can have them.
b. make wrecks timed for a period, and linked to the mission runner, if they arent looted within x minutes, they are free for all.
c. something else.....
A) Good idea. So good, its already implemented in game play, and has been for ages.
B) Terrible idea, wrecks should not be "owned" by anyone. It is not your right to make money in level 4 missions, nor are you entitled to the loot from what you killed. Your suggestion would make it easier to make money solo in empire, but CCP does not want to make it easier to make money solo in empire (Dimi knocks on wood), imo its already too easy. Best thing to do is have a friend/alt/corp mate salvage for you as you run it.
Also, something a friend of mine did when he was still living in highsec was when ninja salvagers would come in, he would hire them. You'd be surprised how many will accept a partial take in return for not having to waste time scanning, and you don't have to blow 1/2 hour to an hour+ cleaning the mish. Depending on the deal you work out, it can be win/win.
-Dimi
on a., typical, I've been away from eve for 12 months +, and this was not the case when I left. At least now I know :)
Damn this ever changing game !
Ps. It's nice to read a majority of mature comments and attitudes in the responses, makes me realise that this game isn't as full of griefers as I was thinking.
|
Von Kapiche
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2009.07.09 00:53:00 -
[57]
I actually mission in a *more* popular area out of laziness now; only time I've had anyone else in the mission was some bored Privateers person taking time out from a local camp, and that was a neighbouring system with low population. And even then I got the salvage first.
Ninjas break the monotony of missioning. Nowadays I have a support boat that salvages on the move, so there's nothing to ninja even if they found me, but in times past I've had a lot of fun trying ( and occasionally succeeding ) in getting a ninja blown up by the mission. Treat them as part of the mission & your mental state will become much more accepting. Also perhaps don't mission so much that all you can see is the ISK ( do some with friends + practice gang manoevers perhaps? for basic coordination training it's handy to have a known environment ).
OP, also don't take faction missions if this is a problem, LP store tags are your bounty in those.
|
Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
|
Posted - 2009.07.09 00:59:00 -
[58]
Quote: If a(so called) Ninja Salvager sat in the room, do you honestly believe the mission runner would just keep trudging blindly? Of course not(no one is that stupid). He or she would simply leave the room and start up another mission(so simple). It's not like we don't have 6 days to complete the first one!
And then the ninja warps in to another mission...Ninjasalvagers can have more open missions than you can
|
Enden Assulu
Caldari Blood Money Inc.
|
Posted - 2009.07.09 02:44:00 -
[59]
My alt only got ninja salvaged first the first time today. Sadly my agent had given me a mission in Dodixie so it was rather inevitable I just handed in the mission and haven't stopped crying since.
Click the image! |
Drangnar
|
Posted - 2009.07.09 07:15:00 -
[60]
Originally by: SleeZe Edited by: SleeZe on 08/07/2009 04:29:20 I'm a casual player and I'm very bothered with this and why does ccp say it's working as intended ? So this is the frustration feature I've been hearing about, this is such a great idea that it makes people get the hell away from your game.
This feature kills the game for me because wrecks are my main income and when ninjas take that I'm left with scraps, when I do missions I expect those plexes to be private since It's my mission and my work I put into it. Also I don't see the reason to race against these guys it takes away my casual experience if I have too worry about ninjas all the time.
Dear, CCP would you please reconsider this on mission plexes, this is seriously putting me off on your game and you don't want that now do you ?
You know, there IS a game a lot like that... with private pockets, no interference... no competetiveness within them...
its called WoW.
|
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 [2] 3 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |