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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 5 post(s) |
Bombcrater
hirr Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.07.20 19:37:00 -
[31]
Originally by: CCP Claw Of course it would be amazing if there was a way for us, within the confines of the Alliance Tournament, to accomodate each and every team that entered. Unfortunately due to scheduling (and other factors, but mostly scheduling) we can only support 64 teams.
The Alliance Tournament is a major event. If the resources CCP are dedicating to it are so minimal that the schedule involves rejecting some of the game's biggest and most active alliances then clearly more resources need to be made available.
Random selection of 64 entrants was always going to cause this problem, you (or whoever you answer to at CCP) should have seen this coming and fixed it beforehand. |
Miss Fiery
Amarr Z Score Rising Indecisive Certainty
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Posted - 2009.07.20 19:38:00 -
[32]
Edited by: Miss Fiery on 20/07/2009 19:41:36
if you put a limit on who can get in the torni thats a little unfair i know ppl are upset that they didnt get in but every deserves a chance to get into the tournament
EDIT - excuse my rubish spelling
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QwaarJet
Gallente hirr Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.07.20 19:39:00 -
[33]
Originally by: CCP Atropos Out of interest, what method of teams selection would you all have gone for, and what are the benefits over both the random selection, and the previous 'window' method.
For a start, top 10 or so alliances by size should get automatic entry. After all, it's an alliance tournament, so the major alliance should get automatic entry. I would also give priority to teams who have previously taken part in a tournament before.
It's pointless asking this now, as it's already been done, and we shouldn't have to wait another year for a chance.
You should change these rules now tbh.
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bloody johnroberts
Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.07.20 19:44:00 -
[34]
i agree there should be a minimum size and not just an alliance set up just to enter 1 corp is not an alliance its a corp
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Gerrard DuNord
SoE Roughriders Electus Matari
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Posted - 2009.07.20 19:50:00 -
[35]
Originally by: CCP Atropos Out of interest, what method of teams selection would you all have gone for, and what are the benefits over both the random selection, and the previous 'window' method.
Actually, I have less of an issue with how you selected, more an issue with the Swiss format restricting numbers. I applaud the 2 billion fee to limit the number of alliances to only serious ones. The Swiss format, however 'fair' it may be, limits numbers. If you look at most 'cup' competitions with significant numbers of entrants, it's straight knockout with seeding.
So here is a simple solution, and not too late to implement.
97 alliances signed up. This solution makes 96 of them happy.
WEEKEND 1
Top 32 from last tourney are seeded and get a bye in weekend 1 (random draws to fill any gaps.
Remaining 64 drawn randomly. Winners progress.
WEEKEND 2
Seeded teams drawn against qualifiers from weekend 1. Winners progress.
WEEKEND 3
Finals
Yes, you can lose a match and go out. Given how many times I've heard people laud the fact that EVE is real and harsh, I can't see people credibly being able to say 'it's not fair, we played someone good / they were lucky'.
This way you get 96 teams in rather than 64. Given that 97 signed up, it seems a much better way to make everyone happy. And there is no extra pressure on the scheduling, it's the same number of matches.
I sincerely hope you consider making this change.
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Torgon Rialis
Sanctum Heavy Industries Manifest Destiny.
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Posted - 2009.07.20 19:50:00 -
[36]
I like the 16 guaranteed spots from the previous tournament and 48 open spots.
If you throw in a minimum size of say 100 members, that'll keep dedicated alt alliances out of the running. The Alliance Tournament seems to be more of a showcase event for the smaller and medium sized alliances who don't generally get much press and don't live in 0.0. It's also for the specifically PVP oriented types. Pandemic Legion, Triumvirate and the more empire based purely pvp groups like Cry Havoc. or Advocated Destruction fit this mold better than just the largest alliances getting in. Sure it is great to see the largest alliances in there but the tournament means a lot more to some of the smaller guys.
Take my alliance for example: Nobody knows who we are and the Alliance Tournament is one of the few ways we can really get our name out there. Everybody knows who Morsus Mihi is, so missing the tournament, while extremely dissappointing to your team isn't going to be a serious blow to your alliance and what it is trying to do. The biggest alliances, once in the field, will have a good chance of guaranteeing their spots for the next tournament based on resources and pilot availability. Twice a year though a smaller alliance has a chance to compete with all the other alliances on a more level playing field and show what they can do. I think that is an important feature of the tournament and I wouldn't want to see it lost.
For next time, slap a minimum size requirement on there. That will at least make tournament alt teams find a real alliance to join up with.
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Shigsy
Neo Spartans Laconian Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.07.20 19:51:00 -
[37]
Originally by: QwaarJet
Originally by: CCP Atropos Out of interest, what method of teams selection would you all have gone for, and what are the benefits over both the random selection, and the previous 'window' method.
For a start, top 10 or so alliances by size should get automatic entry. After all, it's an alliance tournament, so the major alliance should get automatic entry. I would also give priority to teams who have previously taken part in a tournament before.
It's pointless asking this now, as it's already been done, and we shouldn't have to wait another year for a chance.
You should change these rules now tbh.
bawww you sound bitter.
So you're saying xxxxXXxxshadow of XxxxxdeathXxxXx should get in before a pvp alliance because they're full of farmers? Grow up, numbers is a stupid way to base entry to a small numbers pvp event. I agree that alt alliances shouldn't be allowed, but random selection is the fairest method.
Also first game against kenny \o/
Join "C&P" ingame! |
bloody johnroberts
Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.07.20 19:51:00 -
[38]
i use this as an example
Scooty Puff Junior Alliance
1 corp 10 members
sorry guys to point it out but its not an alliance its a corp
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Ronaldo Carrare
RR Financial Services
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Posted - 2009.07.20 19:55:00 -
[39]
Originally by: bloody johnroberts i use this as an example
Scooty Puff Junior Alliance
1 corp 10 members
sorry guys to point it out but its not an alliance its a corp
Buy their spot. Buy their alliance. You're MM, use your power ffs. And stop crying because a. no one cares. b. it won't get you anywhere.
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bloody johnroberts
Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.07.20 19:56:00 -
[40]
If you throw in a minimum size of say 100 members, that'll keep dedicated alt alliances out of the running. The Alliance Tournament seems to be more of a showcase event for the smaller and medium sized alliances who don't generally get much press and don't live in 0.0. It's also for the specifically PVP oriented types. Pandemic Legion, Triumvirate and the more empire based purely pvp groups like Cry Havoc. or Advocated Destruction fit this mold better than just the largest alliances getting in. Sure it is great to see the largest alliances in there but the tournament means a lot more to some of the smaller guys.
Take my alliance for example: Nobody knows who we are and the Alliance Tournament is one of the few ways we can really get our name out there. Everybody knows who Morsus Mihi is, so missing the tournament, while extremely dissappointing to your team isn't going to be a serious blow to your alliance and what it is trying to do. The biggest alliances, once in the field, will have a good chance of guaranteeing their spots for the next tournament based on resources and pilot availability. Twice a year though a smaller alliance has a chance to compete with all the other alliances on a more level playing field and show what they can do. I think that is an important feature of the tournament and I wouldn't want to see it lost.
For next time, slap a minimum size requirement on there. That will at least make tournament alt teams find a real alliance to join up with.
i agree bro alliance's of all sizes should get in but it has to be an alliance not a corp. it has to have at least 2 corps in it
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Shigsy
Neo Spartans Laconian Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.07.20 19:57:00 -
[41]
Edited by: Shigsy on 20/07/2009 19:57:54 u mad?
e: we're below 100 members, sorry stupid idea.
Join "C&P" ingame! |
bloody johnroberts
Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.07.20 19:58:00 -
[42]
lol so peeps join the alliance tourney to sell there spots hmmmmm
and did you apply for the this if not why post here go mine a bit
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Ronaldo Carrare
RR Financial Services
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Posted - 2009.07.20 20:01:00 -
[43]
Originally by: bloody johnroberts lol so peeps join the alliance tourney to sell there spots hmmmmm
and did you apply for the this if not why post here go mine a bit
It's Eve. PvP, Market PvP, selling your alliance to angry MM, it all works if it makes you ISK. Instead of rambling you should make sure you're the 1st to make a good offer to one of the 30man alliances that got in.
And please, don't make jokes about carebearing. You're in MM.
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Alekseyev Karrde
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2009.07.20 20:01:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Gerrard DuNord
Originally by: CCP Atropos Out of interest, what method of teams selection would you all have gone for, and what are the benefits over both the random selection, and the previous 'window' method.
Actually, I have less of an issue with how you selected, more an issue with the Swiss format restricting numbers. I applaud the 2 billion fee to limit the number of alliances to only serious ones. The Swiss format, however 'fair' it may be, limits numbers. If you look at most 'cup' competitions with significant numbers of entrants, it's straight knockout with seeding.
So here is a simple solution, and not too late to implement.
97 alliances signed up. This solution makes 96 of them happy.
WEEKEND 1
Top 32 from last tourney are seeded and get a bye in weekend 1 (random draws to fill any gaps.
Remaining 64 drawn randomly. Winners progress.
WEEKEND 2
Seeded teams drawn against qualifiers from weekend 1. Winners progress.
WEEKEND 3
Finals
Yes, you can lose a match and go out. Given how many times I've heard people laud the fact that EVE is real and harsh, I can't see people credibly being able to say 'it's not fair, we played someone good / they were lucky'.
This way you get 96 teams in rather than 64. Given that 97 signed up, it seems a much better way to make everyone happy. And there is no extra pressure on the scheduling, it's the same number of matches.
I sincerely hope you consider making this change.
This, implemented this time around. It's an easy change, and will produce more decisive matches.
Next time going, i like a minimum number of characters. 50 seems pretty reasonable to me. ---
Zombie Apocalypse Guitar-Wielding Superteam |
bloody johnroberts
Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.07.20 20:02:00 -
[45]
as i said above there shouldn't be a min member size but ffs it needs to be more than 1 corp
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Andre Marconius
Gallente DIE WITH HONOUR Scooty Puff Junior Alliance
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Posted - 2009.07.20 20:03:00 -
[46]
Looking forward to the tournament. Guess we were lucky we didn't get a big alliance for our first match.
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SasRipper
DIE WITH HONOUR Scooty Puff Junior Alliance
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Posted - 2009.07.20 20:05:00 -
[47]
Edited by: SasRipper on 20/07/2009 20:05:58
Originally by: bloody johnroberts i use this as an example
Scooty Puff Junior Alliance
1 corp 10 members
sorry guys to point it out but its not an alliance its a corp
WE HAVE ALLIANCE IN OUR ALLIANCE NAME THE CLUES IN THE TITLE!
WE HAVE THERFORE ENTERED THE ALLIANCE TOURNEMENT!
If you have a problem with ccps defination of allaince take it up with them.
And to MM as a whole if you spent half as much time to bother creating a few reserve alliances, instead of spreading you emo tears everywhere.
Thank You & gd night!
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Ronaldo Carrare
RR Financial Services
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Posted - 2009.07.20 20:06:00 -
[48]
Edited by: Ronaldo Carrare on 20/07/2009 20:06:30
Originally by: bloody johnroberts as i said above there shouldn't be a min member size but ffs it needs to be more than 1 corp
You can easily make 2 alt corps instead of one mate. Or 3. Or 12 for that matter. Involving numbers is dumb since there's a lot of small alliances out there.
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SasRipper
DIE WITH HONOUR Scooty Puff Junior Alliance
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Posted - 2009.07.20 20:11:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Ronaldo Carrare
Originally by: bloody johnroberts i use this as an example
Scooty Puff Junior Alliance
1 corp 10 members
sorry guys to point it out but its not an alliance its a corp
Buy their spot. Buy their alliance. You're MM, use your power ffs. And stop crying because a. no one cares. b. it won't get you anywhere.
Ohh To MM I rather fancy an Erebus
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EYEDOLL
Amarr Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.07.20 20:24:00 -
[50]
Banzai Boys: Founded 2009-07-09 Beyond Virginity: Founded 2009-07-02 (1 member) In Tea We Trust: Founded 2009-07-09 Indecisive Certainty: Founded 2009-06-15 LEM Alliance: Founded 2009-06-27 Scooty Puff Junior Alliance: Founded 2009-07-01 Blanket Men: Founded 2009-06-30 Hallowed Dorsai: Founded 2009-07-03 (2 members)
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Miss Fiery
Amarr Z Score Rising Indecisive Certainty
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Posted - 2009.07.20 20:30:00 -
[51]
Originally by: EYEDOLL Banzai Boys: Founded 2009-07-09 Beyond Virginity: Founded 2009-07-02 (1 member) In Tea We Trust: Founded 2009-07-09 Indecisive Certainty: Founded 2009-06-15 LEM Alliance: Founded 2009-06-27 Scooty Puff Junior Alliance: Founded 2009-07-01 Blanket Men: Founded 2009-06-30 Hallowed Dorsai: Founded 2009-07-03 (2 members)
id like to point out that not all of those alliances are alts mainly the 1 im in isnt
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Ronaldo Carrare
RR Financial Services
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Posted - 2009.07.20 20:36:00 -
[52]
Originally by: EYEDOLL Banzai Boys: Founded 2009-07-09 Beyond Virginity: Founded 2009-07-02 (1 member) In Tea We Trust: Founded 2009-07-09 Indecisive Certainty: Founded 2009-06-15 LEM Alliance: Founded 2009-06-27 Scooty Puff Junior Alliance: Founded 2009-07-01 Blanket Men: Founded 2009-06-30 Hallowed Dorsai: Founded 2009-07-03 (2 members)
One of them is BYDI, which deserve their place.
You can try to buy any of the ones that are left. Get'em.
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Holy Lowlander
Lone Star Joint Venture Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.07.20 20:42:00 -
[53]
why not simply add spots , right now ?
I dont really see the problem , other than alliances not getting in. You shouldnt have to create a bunch of alt alliances to get in the alliance tournament thats just ridiculus. _______________ Please resize your signature to the maximum allowed of 400 x 120 pixels with a maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Zymurgist |
Yaay
The Aggressors Vertigo Coalition
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Posted - 2009.07.20 20:43:00 -
[54]
Originally by: CCP Atropos Out of interest, what method of teams selection would you all have gone for, and what are the benefits over both the random selection, and the previous 'window' method.
128 team tourney.
all alliances over 500 members can get an auto bid if they so choose... any remaining spots to to a random pool.
Day one of the tourney is a random draw of competition. 1 loss and done resulting in the final 64 draw. Would be less matches still than the old style tournament where you had the points system for 4-6 team groups.
day 1 matches would be 5 v 5 or 10 v 10 frigate only tournament with ships of choice. Points could be awarded 1.2.3 with t2 being 2 points, t1 being 1 point, and those recon friggies being 3 points. 10 points total allowed. Ring could be 50km radius. Match time limited to 8 minutes each. All of this in an effort to help speed up day 1 matches. Since you aren't gonna broadcast it, you could probably run 4 matches at a time.
DD changes
Docking PVP games |
Hans Viktor
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Posted - 2009.07.20 20:55:00 -
[55]
Just throwing this out there...
What is the point of an alliance? If I remember correctly, only alliances can hold space, not corps.
Restrict the tournament to space holding alliances, there should be room left over after that, and those spots can be up for grabs for the alliances that don't hold space.
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Miss Fiery
Amarr Z Score Rising Indecisive Certainty
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Posted - 2009.07.20 21:02:00 -
[56]
Edited by: Miss Fiery on 20/07/2009 21:02:26
Originally by: Hans Viktor Just throwing this out there...
What is the point of an alliance? If I remember correctly, only alliances can hold space, not corps.
Restrict the tournament to space holding alliances, there should be room left over after that, and those spots can be up for grabs for the alliances that don't hold space.
no offence but thats a ridiculous idea that means every empire based alliance is then at an unfair disadvantage and the whole point of the torni is its supposed to be fun for every1 not just a select few
EDIT - spelling
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bloody johnroberts
Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.07.20 21:03:00 -
[57]
empire alliances should have a chance but they must be an alliance and not just created for profit and gain or alts for other large alliances
again 1 corp is not an alliance
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L'Ame Immortelle
Gallente Annihilation.
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Posted - 2009.07.20 21:15:00 -
[58]
What blows my mind is the lack of thought put into this beforehand. CCP has to be smart enough to realize that this would **** off a lot of big alliances when people sign up with 1-corp alliances and try to sell their spot in the tournament.
Why do you ask after the fact and not figure it beforehand? This a huge event every year and ya can't spend a day or week prior to figure out a system that works?
Alliances that have been in the prior 16 should have precedence and alliances that have been in the tournament before as well. The fact that groups like Morsus Mihi didn't get in is absolutely ridiculous. Any newcomers should deal with a draw (with a multi-corp, 50 man, and at least one month old requirement) or have them all battle it out, non-televised, for the remaining spots.
Simple and done.
Visions of my Mind and Soul |
Shigsy
Neo Spartans Laconian Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.07.20 21:27:00 -
[59]
Originally by: bloody johnroberts empire alliances should have a chance but they must be an alliance and not just created for profit and gain or alts for other large alliances
again 1 corp is not an alliance
Make offers for alliance
Join "C&P" ingame! |
Larkonis Trassler
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Posted - 2009.07.20 21:33:00 -
[60]
GL Kenny!
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