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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Damaclease
4S Corporation
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Posted - 2009.08.12 20:08:00 -
[301]
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javer
4S Corporation Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.08.12 20:08:00 -
[302]
-------------------------------------------- Never argue with an idiot, they will drag you down to their Level and beat you with experience. |
Beta babe
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Posted - 2009.08.12 20:10:00 -
[303]
Edited by: Beta babe on 12/08/2009 20:09:58
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Kraknar
hirr Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.08.12 20:15:00 -
[304]
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Cao JianWei
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Posted - 2009.08.13 03:19:00 -
[305]
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Hoo Is
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Posted - 2009.08.13 13:49:00 -
[306]
Posting to confirm the GM's here are pretty much fail
Received a forum ban once... petitioned with about 1000000 examples of posts that fit the same description given for why I received the ban... simply asked why they were still posting and I was banned.
Never got an answer to that, just that my ban would remain in place. ---- a reply which adds nothing to a thread or results in a thread being bumped with no new discussion worthy content is considered spam and as such warrants a forum ban |
wootonius
Madhatters Inc.
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Posted - 2009.08.13 14:50:00 -
[307]
This has been a problem for far too long. CCP really needs to invest in a community relations force to take back their game and finally start showing that they're here to serve their CUSTOMERS and not the other way around.
Forcing players to endure harsh consequences is one thing, not caring and employing over-worked, under qualified slackers is another.
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Indigo Dean
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Posted - 2009.08.13 16:00:00 -
[308]
A great idea would be to outsource it. This is where I used to work.
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Lukac
I dont have that skill
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Posted - 2009.08.13 22:44:00 -
[309]
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Vuk Lau
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Posted - 2009.08.14 08:07:00 -
[310]
Originally by: Indigo Dean A great idea would be to outsource it. This is where I used to work.
Well CCP already was/is outsorcing GMs, and it didnt went well as we can see, but then again as my ppl would say "The Fish Stinks from the Head" i am prety much sure that outsourcing is not the essence of the problem.
If there are proper procedures when recruiting GMs, testing their ingame knowledge and monitoring their work, it would limit the ammount of issues we are having now. Also branching the type of petitions is extremely bad and it needs to be reworked aswell. EVE is a complex world and even I (and I think that I am allrounded player with vast knowledge of mechanics) in many cases dunno how something "realy" works in EVE.
The problem starts when certain (or all, cant say) GMs are covering all kind of petitions. I had cases when same GM who was working on f.e. unstucking from Jita, is answering Sov related petitions where he doesnt have a clue either of what I am petitioning nor what he is answering to me. For certain type of petitions, like billing issues, unstucking chars, and further (cant check right now all they types) char transfer and similar issues you really dont need EVE Einsteins to handle them, cause tbh u need really narrow and shallow EVE knowledge to do that (and we still have 24+ time response on some of them)
For a long time I was pursuing that GMs need to actively play the game, and not just GMs but all CCP employers. I know that many CCP guys are playing as carebears, but I think (i can be wrong ofc, but its rare cases of me being wrong :D ) that there is not much CCP guys doing 0.0 serious warfare. I know that after T20 incident CCP got much more strict and afaik now if u r employed by CCP your accounts got on ice and you can play only with new anonymous new accounts. Somehow I think its not solving any problems, because I personaly think that T20 was CCP fault only in hiring hmm lets be nice and say - bad person, who was ******ed enought to spawn T2 BPOs. Lets be perfectly honest even now with much more improved and tightened internal procedured in CCP you can "theoreticaly" (I am prety much sure there are not any cases of this atm) leak certain info to your favorite ingame entity. Hell I am sure I could work for CCP, not play EVE at all and lead my alliance (also theoreticaly speaking). Only thing stoping me, and I think only thing which can stop at all CCP employes of not doing stupid stuff is their conscience. Same goes for GMs - let them play cause thats the only way for them to realy know what is going ingame. Its realy not enough for them just to spawn when node starts colapsing and to write in blue color in local chat.
I am completely aware that CCP has limited resources which can allocate to GM department but I am 100% positive (ofc I can be wrong :D but as said above its not a common thing to happen) that GM dept can be wastly improved - "Where there's a Will, there's a way"
I hope Lavista will not find this post whiny or unproffesional
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Lee Weiseng
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Posted - 2009.08.14 14:53:00 -
[311]
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Chuck Skull
b.b.k Fidelas Constans
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Posted - 2009.08.14 17:34:00 -
[312]
. ---
Also available in 'sober' |
Cheyenne Shadowborn
Noob Much Inc.
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Posted - 2009.08.14 17:57:00 -
[313]
Edited by: Cheyenne Shadowborn on 14/08/2009 18:07:59 The whole thing is TL;DR by now but so much:
I totally agree with the initial post. I have at this point very little trust in CCP to the point where I don't bother anymore with petitions, OR bug reports (e.g. because I am just being told to "recreate" a situation on the server thats evidently hard or impossible for me to recreate) or reporting ****posts like the phishing ones because the per-incident reaction is a joke, or reporting RMT, because they also only respond per incident without any visible intent to be improving anything without locking out a RMT'er for more than 5 minutes max.
Add to that the general suckage of the web tools, once you have written the same bug report thrice, it just ain't that important anymore (motivation, especially for helping a company for free, is a b****). I understand they are working on improving the web stuff, but then again was there actually a time when they were not?
It'd take a long time to regain some trust in any case even if they had any intent.
Also, I think its been said, lack of inter-departmental comms wtl.
I would add my own examples of glaring inconsistencies but it'll just get modded anyway so why bother.
Ultimately however, what he said, a couple of pages above, involving that dead horse and the beating.
--
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Xikorita
Mob Thought
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Posted - 2009.08.14 18:41:00 -
[314]
supported
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Havant
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Posted - 2009.08.15 13:58:00 -
[315]
FFS CCP, take notice.
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Alekseyev Karrde
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2009.08.15 17:06:00 -
[316]
got a copy/paste warning for a GM regarding hopping from alliances multiple times simply to avoid a war dec. Problem is, in addition to not having a war dec to dodge right now, that it would be easily dispelled by the quickest of checks on alliance history which obv the GM didnt want to spend the time to check.
Petitioned but no reponse for nearly 24 so i add this to the pile of complaints and want to warn people that if this isnt a mistake, those supporting this initiative vocally (as we've done on our podcast) might be targeted for harassment. ---
Zombie Apocalypse Guitar-Wielding Superteam |
Kat Bandeis
Virtual Rock Industries
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Posted - 2009.08.15 19:29:00 -
[317]
I'd like to ask a basic question: if you are paying monthly for a subscription to Service 'X', do you think you should be getting competent support for use of that service? CCP is in business (ie, making money by providing a service) and should be providing it's customers with some level of support. The fact that it's an "internet spaceship game" is irrelevent.
I'm paying $15 per month for each of four accounts: that's $60 (US) per month, or $720 US per year to CCP for the use of their service. "It's just an internet spaceship game" is unacceptable to me: I'm paying good money to use this service, and I expect a competent level of support.
How much have YOU given CCP over the life of your account(s), and do you think the level of support you've received is adequate?
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Indigo Dean
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Posted - 2009.08.16 10:55:00 -
[318]
Originally by: Vuk Lau
Originally by: Indigo Dean A great idea would be to outsource it. This is where I used to work.
Well CCP already was/is outsorcing GMs, and it didnt went well as we can see, but then again as my ppl would say "The Fish Stinks from the Head" i am prety much sure that outsourcing is not the essence of the problem.
If there are proper procedures when recruiting GMs, testing their ingame knowledge and monitoring their work, it would limit the ammount of issues we are having now. Also branching the type of petitions is extremely bad and it needs to be reworked aswell. EVE is a complex world and even I (and I think that I am allrounded player with vast knowledge of mechanics) in many cases dunno how something "realy" works in EVE.
The problem starts when certain (or all, cant say) GMs are covering all kind of petitions. I had cases when same GM who was working on f.e. unstucking from Jita, is answering Sov related petitions where he doesnt have a clue either of what I am petitioning nor what he is answering to me. For certain type of petitions, like billing issues, unstucking chars, and further (cant check right now all they types) char transfer and similar issues you really dont need EVE Einsteins to handle them, cause tbh u need really narrow and shallow EVE knowledge to do that (and we still have 24+ time response on some of them)
For a long time I was pursuing that GMs need to actively play the game, and not just GMs but all CCP employers. I know that many CCP guys are playing as carebears, but I think (i can be wrong ofc, but its rare cases of me being wrong :D ) that there is not much CCP guys doing 0.0 serious warfare. I know that after T20 incident CCP got much more strict and afaik now if u r employed by CCP your accounts got on ice and you can play only with new anonymous new accounts. Somehow I think its not solving any problems, because I personaly think that T20 was CCP fault only in hiring hmm lets be nice and say - bad person, who was ******ed enought to spawn T2 BPOs. Lets be perfectly honest even now with much more improved and tightened internal procedured in CCP you can "theoreticaly" (I am prety much sure there are not any cases of this atm) leak certain info to your favorite ingame entity. Hell I am sure I could work for CCP, not play EVE at all and lead my alliance (also theoreticaly speaking). Only thing stoping me, and I think only thing which can stop at all CCP employes of not doing stupid stuff is their conscience. Same goes for GMs - let them play cause thats the only way for them to realy know what is going ingame. Its realy not enough for them just to spawn when node starts colapsing and to write in blue color in local chat.
I am completely aware that CCP has limited resources which can allocate to GM department but I am 100% positive (ofc I can be wrong :D but as said above its not a common thing to happen) that GM dept can be wastly improved - "Where there's a Will, there's a way"
I hope Lavista will not find this post whiny or unproffesional
CCP: It's called -quality assurance-. Look into it.
Also, why don't you publically release your internal performance index for the customer service dept.?
Oh wait. That wouldn't make a difference since you guys aren't taking customer satisfaction into account with that index, is it?
Because, honestly, if you guys took customer appreciation into account with that index you'd prolly have to fire 3/4 of the dept. |
SupaKudoRio
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Posted - 2009.08.16 12:23:00 -
[319]
Originally by: Jack Gilligan What I really want to see is a GM operation that does more than CTRL+V "Our logs show nothing" to petitions.
A C&P "we are looking into the issue" response would be very nice for non-instant things. Would make me a lot happier at least.
On another note, how do you like your pods in the morning? |
d4ve
Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.08.16 13:21:00 -
[320]
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qw3l
Great Wildlands Import-Export
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Posted - 2009.08.16 13:22:00 -
[321]
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Trebor DeCaldar
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Posted - 2009.08.17 20:50:00 -
[322]
I would love to click on this and see a Blue Bar
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Everseeker
Ivy League
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Posted - 2009.08.17 21:20:00 -
[323]
I had 2 experiences with the Petition system... In the first one, I was sitting, cloaked up, in War, watching a gate.... The WT's in local began to taunt me... no big deal... You mom wears army boots stuff... But then, they "Went there"... deacribing in detail, what they wanted to watch me do with my son, and what they wanted to watch their dogs do to my daughter... Cut/Paste-to-petition/Logoff The next day there was a mail, from the head of their alliance, profusely apologizing for his... ex-team mates (He read what they had posted, then promptly ejected them from his alliance) Turns out the GM was pretty on-the-ball, IDing the people and mailing their management.... 1 step short of a ban, but it DID make me feel better.
The other one... kinda trivial in comparison, had to do with a procedural question re: submitting a bug, was answered in under 15 seconds... ( I mean.... I hit enter on the ticket, got in-game, took a sec to align, and there was a popup asking if I wanted to chat....)
So... my personal experience: GM=2, Forces-of-evil=0
HOWEVER, I support a more "open" policy on GM activity... possibly time-stamping petitions... auto-escalating if not acted on quickly...e-mail on any update to a petition.... EverSeeker |
Klaitu BenJohhn
The Graduates Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.08.18 03:50:00 -
[324]
I agree with the philosophy behind this thread, but having once worked in the MMO customer service field, I am perhaps more pessimistic about possible changes.
I have a few "Devil's Advocate" points that I've run into in the past which may be food for thought.
CCP is going to resist doing anything that costs more money. hiring more GM's costs money. Training the GM's better also costs money. A GM will only work for X amount of hours a day, and training time is not time spent working.
The people who are GM's are usually people who make so little money that they couldn't afford to play the game they are GMing for. They are stuck to a desk, and every aspect of their performance is monitored via the computer. They are no doubt required to answer a quota number of petitions per day, which their managers then use to determine if the amount of work they do is worth the amount they are being paid.
GM's and other customer service people are "caught in the middle" The players beat on them for sucking, and their management rides them like taskmasters. It is, truly, a thankless job.
When you first start as a GM, you may have visions of being the beacon that the players have been looking for, but you soon find out that your hands are tied to actually make any change that means anything.. and since your hands are tied anyway there are no qualms about the management and the players beating the idealism out of you.
You become a cog in a machine. You learn what your managers expect of you, and you provide exactly that, and not an inch more. Since your company likely prefers to run its current employees on 14 hour days instead of hiring more employees, you get to be a cog for most of your life. When you get home and collapse, the very last thing you want to do is play the game that you work for. You're lucky if you can muster up the willpower to even look at a computer screen.
It's not just the management that's the problem. You and I both know that Eve is chock full of scammers who would like nothing more to pull a fast one on a GM. The last thing a GM wants is to draw attention to himself by being scammed, and the management likely has draconian limits on exactly what GM's can and can't do in many situations for this simple reason.
On top of that, I'll wager that there are a ton of GM petitions that are complete garbage and aren't worth a GM's time anyway. In fact, I'd wager that most petitions are something that the player could have solved themselves. That's not to say that legitimate game problems happen, it's just that when it happens 2 out of every 500 petitions, they are easy to gloss over seeing as how you're not much more than a zombie powered by caffiene at this point.
The bottom line here is that CCP doesn't give Customer Service a very high priority. They don't give it a high priority because real, working customer service is very, very expensive for the company, and the company doesn't make hardly any money from the GM department. It's a giant sink in their budget that doesn't give anything back.
Let's face it, everyone on this thread is irked enough to post something, but few of them are actually willing to quit over it.. and so long as you're not quitting, then what does it matter how your game experience is? CCP still gets their money.
Do you want CCP to give Customer service more priority? They'll have to pull it out of some other department's budget. Which department should get the cuts first? What priority does Customer service hold in the grand scheme of CCP?
If you're going to talk straight to CCP themselves, it would be wise to have answers to these questions.
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Jimer Lins
Gallente Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2009.08.18 05:10:00 -
[325]
I'm gonna call bull****, Klaitu.
Here's why: Any company that wishes to make money is going to have to spend it. The question is how much do you spend for how much gain? In the case of the support staff, I would venture that CCP could make more than they spend if they would un-**** the support.
That means: * Better training. * Better oversight (not micromanagement, but consequences for blowing off valid petitions) * More and more competent GMs. * A real commitment to excellence in customer support.
As I note in our most recent podcast (blatant plug), I have spoken personally with many people who have heard about EVE and the horror stories of the support. Like it or not, CCP has dug their own hole on this one and their support IS worse than other MMOs of their caliber. I have played quite a few and while clueless GMs are pretty common, the kind of stuff we see and have gotten so used to with EVE would have made any number of lesser MMOs auger in by now.
Fact is, EVE only survives its abysmal support and the frankly player-hostile perception that most people have of their GM team by dint of the fact that it IS such a great game. But that hole has a bottom.
CCP would do far worse than to spend some time and money repairing their reputation. Closing valid petitions in 3 seconds is not a good way to do it.
Killboard-Declarations of War Podcast |
Tashio Taifune
Rennfeuer Paxton Federation
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Posted - 2009.08.18 11:17:00 -
[326]
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Sun Clausewitz
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Posted - 2009.08.18 17:28:00 -
[327]
Seriously, I've had better customer service at Wal-Mart
Pick Three: Caldari/PVP/Solo/Success |
Vuk Lau
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Posted - 2009.08.18 17:58:00 -
[328]
As a proof that there is a bit of hope for GM dept is something like this Awesome blog by GM Grimmi
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Hoo Is
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Posted - 2009.08.18 20:21:00 -
[329]
Originally by: Vuk Lau As a proof that there is a bit of hope for GM dept is something like this Awesome blog by GM Grimmi
That is proof that they are willing to go after people messing up their profits... not actually provide descent customer service ---- a reply which adds nothing to a thread or results in a thread being bumped with no new discussion worthy content is considered spam and as such warrants a forum ban |
Klaitu BenJohhn
The Graduates Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.08.18 21:17:00 -
[330]
Originally by: Jimer Lins I'm gonna call bull****, Klaitu.
Here's why: Any company that wishes to make money is going to have to spend it. The question is how much do you spend for how much gain? In the case of the support staff, I would venture that CCP could make more than they spend if they would un-**** the support.
That means: * Better training. * Better oversight (not micromanagement, but consequences for blowing off valid petitions) * More and more competent GMs. * A real commitment to excellence in customer support.
As I note in our most recent podcast (blatant plug), I have spoken personally with many people who have heard about EVE and the horror stories of the support. Like it or not, CCP has dug their own hole on this one and their support IS worse than other MMOs of their caliber. I have played quite a few and while clueless GMs are pretty common, the kind of stuff we see and have gotten so used to with EVE would have made any number of lesser MMOs auger in by now.
Fact is, EVE only survives its abysmal support and the frankly player-hostile perception that most people have of their GM team by dint of the fact that it IS such a great game. But that hole has a bottom.
CCP would do far worse than to spend some time and money repairing their reputation. Closing valid petitions in 3 seconds is not a good way to do it.
I agree with you, I'm just saying that CCP would have to invest money in improving their GM support, an investment which does not return very much profit.
From CCP's perspective, Eve is a successful, fast-growing game. Improving their GM support will not make Eve that much more successful, and it won't cause Eve to grow that much faster. That's why it's not high on their priority list now.
I hope that the petitions and the CSM are able to make some changes here, I just think that it's an uphill battle.
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