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Generalissima
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.08.20 15:00:00 -
[151]
So far every attempt at a MMOFPS has failed, including the NGE combat system (which had auto target/aim/fire added back to it later), as well as Tabula Rasa.
Millions and millions and millions of dollars have been spent on the concept, and so far, spending it all on beer and then recycling the cans later would have produced more revenue than any MMOFPS ever has.
There are some good fundamental reasons for it too... FPS games are very, "control intense". Meaning you need to move, you need to aim, you need to fire, mostly all at the same time. There is little in the way of downtime or pause. This makes for play that happens in short bursts because it's fatiguing. This is why so far, only "turn based" auto aim/fire type combat systems have been successful in MMO's. EVE's combat system is of that type.
Add to that the fact that any MMORPG has at it's heart a need to draw things out, into a "grind" so to speak. And, yes, even EVE has a grind, the grind for isk. Advancement of skill is a timesink. So, to "level" or improve skill in a MMOFPS will mean killing lots of stuff, over a long period of time, with a combat system that is fatiguing.
I suppose they could introduce an EVE style "select skill to train, wait X days, Y hours, Z, minutes" system, but would the average console kid have the patience to train "Assault Rifle Specialization" to Level 5 which to do with it's prerequisites could take more than a month?
This is why I think making DUST for a completely different audience than EVE, yet connecting them is a HUGE risk, much more of one than adding a ground game tailored to us, and running on a PC.
Lots of companies have so far "shot for the moon" to tap into this so-called "goldmine" of "casual" players. So far no one has succeeded except Blizzard. And that is if you are willing to concede that WOW is, in fact, a casual MMO, which I would argue that it isn't.
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mcnuggetlol
Amarr The Penumbra Initiative
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Posted - 2009.08.20 15:01:00 -
[152]
Originally by: Generalissima So far every attempt at a MMOFPS has failed,
Planetside.
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Generalissima
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.08.20 15:03:00 -
[153]
Edited by: Generalissima on 20/08/2009 15:04:35
Originally by: mcnuggetlol
Originally by: Generalissima So far every attempt at a MMOFPS has failed,
Planetside.
Planetside. Tabula Rasa. SWG: NGE combat system. All failures that either closed, have been consolidated down in servers, or in danger of closing soon. None of those three ever had subscriber numbers anywhere close to EVE's 300,000, except in the case of SWG had that many subscribers only to lose almost all of them BECAUSE of the change to a "casual friendly" simplified FPS style.
There has as of now not been one single successful MMOFPS.
Online FPS play is limited to sessions with limited number of players in specific scenarios, nowhere near the scale of a MMO.
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mcnuggetlol
Amarr The Penumbra Initiative
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Posted - 2009.08.20 15:05:00 -
[154]
Originally by: Generalissima
Originally by: mcnuggetlol
Originally by: Generalissima So far every attempt at a MMOFPS has failed,
Planetside.
Planetside. Tabula Rasa. SWG: NGE combat system. All failures that either closed, have been consolidated down in servers, or in danger of closing soon. None of those three ever had subscriber numbers anywhere close to EVE's 300,000, except in the case of SWG had that many subscribers only to lose almost all of them BECAUSE of the change to a "casual friendly" simplified FPS style.
So what's your point
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Kalo Reglia
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Posted - 2009.08.20 15:07:00 -
[155]
I think you're exaggerating, based on incomplete information, as incomplete as the game itself is
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Generalissima
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.08.20 15:10:00 -
[156]
Originally by: mcnuggetlol
Originally by: Generalissima
Originally by: mcnuggetlol
Originally by: Generalissima So far every attempt at a MMOFPS has failed,
Planetside.
Planetside. Tabula Rasa. SWG: NGE combat system. All failures that either closed, have been consolidated down in servers, or in danger of closing soon. None of those three ever had subscriber numbers anywhere close to EVE's 300,000, except in the case of SWG had that many subscribers only to lose almost all of them BECAUSE of the change to a "casual friendly" simplified FPS style.
So what's your point
My point is that there is no proof that there is a demand for a MMOFPS, based on the failure of the concept in the marketplace, as there isn't a single example of it proving to be sustainable ever.
if DUST succeeds in even surviving with 50,000 subscribers (which I am sure is FAR short of what CCP is planning on) it will be the most successful MMOFPS of all time.
That's not a very big number, it won't pay for development, and would never return even the original development costs.
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mcnuggetlol
Amarr The Penumbra Initiative
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Posted - 2009.08.20 15:14:00 -
[157]
You see, you're assuming it's gonna be subscription based. CCP haven't released any details on pricing yet. Calm down.
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LisaLove
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Posted - 2009.08.20 15:15:00 -
[158]
Edited by: LisaLove on 20/08/2009 15:16:13 every xbox360 in existance will have melted and red ringed by the time this comes out, dont panic
as cool as it looks we all know fps games are alot better with mouse and keyboard, not too include pc format is restricting your player base.
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Ariso
Quantum Industries RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2009.08.20 15:19:00 -
[159]
With Dust's direct influence to events in EVE im glad the PC isnt getting the game. We all know how much people love to hack FPS's online and cheat their way to victory. At least 360 and PS3 are reasonably secure from cheating except for rapid fire controller mods and map exploits.
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Tippia
Raddick Explorations
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Posted - 2009.08.20 15:23:00 -
[160]
Originally by: Generalissima So far every attempt at a MMOFPS has failed, including the NGE combat system (which had auto target/aim/fire added back to it later), as well as Tabula Rasa.
A clear case of "didn't do the research". Not only are you wrong about the MMOFPS market, you include games that aren't MMOFPSes.
This lack on knowledge on the topic means your assertions about the genre are based on incomplete, flawed and/or inaccurate information. Every point you make out to be a problem has been solved a long time ago. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki |
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Generalissima
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.08.20 15:26:00 -
[161]
Originally by: LisaLove Edited by: LisaLove on 20/08/2009 15:16:13 every xbox360 in existance will have melted and red ringed by the time this comes out, dont panic
as cool as it looks we all know fps games are alot better with mouse and keyboard, not too include pc format is restricting your player base.
Not to mention that consoles aren't nearly as prevalent in a lot of the parts of the world where EVE players come from. The reason being, of course, that in the rest of the world most families can't afford a dedicated machine that only does gaming, a PC can do gaming and a LOT more.
Plus it's cheaper to develop for since you don't have to pay fees to Microsoft, Sony, or Nintendo on top of your other costs.
PC gaming has taken hits in the last few years, mostly because of Microsoft's stupid decision to make DirectX 10 Vista exclusive, and Vista was a terrible OS that bombed, but Windows 7 is going to change all that.
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Yilan Cheran
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.08.20 15:27:00 -
[162]
Greed or no, I think it the idea itself is brilliant, whether you look at it as a game or simply clever business. Two games, intertwined, influencing one and the same persistant universe... it's fresh, it's innovative, it introduces walking on planets in a meaningful way- which is something I thought absolutely impossible until now.
I hope this will be a huge success, a big player magnet, and may Hilmar cs get as filthy rich of it as he hopes, and then some |
Cailais
Amarr IKADA TECHNOLOGIES
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Posted - 2009.08.20 15:29:00 -
[163]
I Personally cant wait to log onto to the COSMOS system to issue orders to direct hundreds of pitiful fools to their e-deaths on some planet I really couldnt care less about.
:)
C.
Originally by: Capa So if you wake up one morning and it's a particularly beautiful day, you'll know we made it.
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Tippia
Raddick Explorations
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Posted - 2009.08.20 15:29:00 -
[164]
Originally by: Generalissima Not to mention that consoles aren't nearly as prevalent in a lot of the parts of the world where EVE players come from.
Not nearly as prevalent as what? What parts of the world are you referrng to? You have data to back this up, I assume? ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki |
Yilan Cheran
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.08.20 15:30:00 -
[165]
Originally by: Cailais I Personally cant wait to log onto to the COSMOS system to issue orders to direct hundreds of pitiful fools to their e-deaths on some planet I really couldnt care less about.
:)
C.
Now THAT is going to be one amusing money sink
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Shaemell Buttleson
Euphoria Released
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Posted - 2009.08.20 15:31:00 -
[166]
Isn't it a shocking concept that a company want's to make more money!
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Connavari
Amarr Local Threat
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Posted - 2009.08.20 15:32:00 -
[167]
Originally by: Shaemell Buttleson Isn't it a shocking concept that a company want's to make more money!
Amazing, simply amazing, why the hell would they want to do that?
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Cpt Branko
Beyond Divinity Inc
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Posted - 2009.08.20 15:33:00 -
[168]
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 20/08/2009 15:34:03 Console game influencing EvE is moronic.
"Recruiting for 0.0 corp. Vent and Xbox mandatory."
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Mukhadari
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Posted - 2009.08.20 15:34:00 -
[169]
waambulance enroute. Do you have an exact address?
I want to be there on the ground when the first alliance falls because of some 12 yr old FPSers. Beautiful!
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Generalissima
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.08.20 15:36:00 -
[170]
Originally by: Yilan Cheran
Originally by: Cailais I Personally cant wait to log onto to the COSMOS system to issue orders to direct hundreds of pitiful fools to their e-deaths on some planet I really couldnt care less about.
:)
C.
Now THAT is going to be one amusing money sink
What would be funny would be if the 0.0 alliances could agree that the konsole kiddies are s****to be f'ed with at every opportunity, get them to show up on planets for a "fight" and then have 1,000 ships launch a massive orbital bombardment to massacre all of them.
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Yilan Cheran
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.08.20 15:43:00 -
[171]
Edited by: Yilan Cheran on 20/08/2009 15:43:41
Originally by: Generalissima
Originally by: Yilan Cheran
Now THAT is going to be one amusing money sink
What would be funny would be if the 0.0 alliances could agree that the konsole kiddies are s****to be f'ed with at every opportunity, get them to show up on planets for a "fight" and then have 1,000 ships launch a massive orbital bombardment to massacre all of them.
Ooh, you may be on to something!
Well, actually, if such a bombardment would be somehow survivable, it might be oodles of fun. Suppose there are 10 bunkers or so in a sector, and each bunker can harbour 10 characters. And suppose that there are 200 characters in the sector. The thought of the explosions, fire, panic and mayhem just makes me dribble... I might just buy a console to be able to see that
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cruxix
M. Corp Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2009.08.20 15:53:00 -
[172]
Damn CCP and their desire to make money like the rest of us! I demand that CCP become the worlds first non profit video game company. They can run everything off of steam vents and live in caves for the good of us all!!!
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Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.08.20 16:14:00 -
[173]
Originally by: Generalissima
What would be funny would be if the 0.0 alliances could agree that the konsole kiddies are s****to be f'ed with at every opportunity, get them to show up on planets for a "fight" and then have 1,000 ships launch a massive orbital bombardment to massacre all of them.
Which is exactly why you probably won't be able to do orbital bombardments. The average console gamer is likely not going to put up with the same kind of "grief" that Eve players simply view as part of the game.
Hopefully CCP is wise enough to also not allow accidental, or purposeful fratricide. Teabag lols have no place in fights for sovereignty.
The Real Space Initiative - V5 (Forum Link)
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Kallius Petrovich
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Posted - 2009.08.20 16:23:00 -
[174]
OH NO, PEOPLE WHO MAKE GAMES WANT MONEY. FROM NOW ON I WILL ONLY PLAY GAMES PRODUCED BY STARVING HOMELESS PEOPLE WHO WANT TO STARVE TO DEATH.
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Wolfgang Achari
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Posted - 2009.08.20 16:26:00 -
[175]
Originally by: Generalissima There are some good fundamental reasons for it too... FPS games are very, "control intense". Meaning you need to move, you need to aim, you need to fire, mostly all at the same time. There is little in the way of downtime or pause. This makes for play that happens in short bursts because it's fatiguing. This is why so far, only "turn based" auto aim/fire type combat systems have been successful in MMO's. EVE's combat system is of that type.
What FPS's have you been playing? I can go into a COD/TF2/CS:S/etc. server (either on my 360 or pc) where people have been playing for HOURS on end. Even I've played an FPS that long once in a while, but only with games that let you respawn during the round. Because I like being able to get right back into the action. I personally think that's one of the things that's going to make or break Dust, how easily/quickly a player will be able to get back into the action (and not a 5-10 minute hike to the action from the spawn point). As well as being able to have a bit of diversity in the objectives that you need to accomplish (ie, more than just capture a point). Also, I know for sure that I wouldn't pay an extra monthly fee, on top of paying for XBL, just to play an FPS. Maybe if this were the messiah of all FPS games possibly. But when there are already so many other good titles available without a monthly subscription, it simply wouldn't be worth it to me.
An MMOFPS can work, just no one has done it right so far in my opinion.
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Tippia
Raddick Explorations
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Posted - 2009.08.20 16:32:00 -
[176]
Originally by: Wolfgang Achari An MMOFPS can work, just no one has done it right so far in my opinion.
Sony did, but then refused to support it properly and thought it could be maintained in the same way as their RPG stable of games. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki |
Kristoffer
Amarr Reikoku
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Posted - 2009.08.20 16:47:00 -
[177]
Edited by: Kristoffer on 20/08/2009 16:56:11 Planetside proved that an MMOFPS could work while at the same time also proved that terribad companies like SOE will kill any good concept they get their hands on.
Planetside got very little additional content. Players cried out for "outfit bases" and urban combat and instead got a confusing cave expansion that could make your head spin. Instead of having a thriving ingame economy, its entire economic plan was axed. Fighting for territory was worthless because there was no achieveable endgame. You weren't effecting anything because the base would flipped the next day.
SOE did nothing to retain players. Every 'balance' descision made in the first six months gave one faction or another superpowerful weapons and then the proceeded to do everything they could to further killwhoring by introducing 'merits' and k/d ratios. Then they introduced invincible big fing robots' and drove away half the remaining playerbase within a month.
Planetside was ahead of its time. SOE is just terrible company. It only failed because it was killed. Eh |
Wolfgang Achari
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Posted - 2009.08.20 16:49:00 -
[178]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Wolfgang Achari An MMOFPS can work, just no one has done it right so far in my opinion.
Sony did, but then refused to support it properly and thought it could be maintained in the same way as their RPG stable of games.
Not supporting it or maintaining it properly would fall under not doing it right.
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Tippia
Raddick Explorations
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Posted - 2009.08.20 16:51:00 -
[179]
Edited by: Tippia on 20/08/2009 16:52:21
Originally by: Kristoffer
CCP SOE did nothing to retain players. Every 'balance' descision made in the first six months gave one faction or another superpowerful weapons […]
*cough*
Originally by: Wolfgang Achari Not supporting it or maintaining it properly would fall under not doing it right.
Yeah, ok. I'll grant you that one. I'd still maintain that the game was done right — it was the upkeep that blew chunky goat bits. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki |
Zverofaust
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Posted - 2009.08.20 17:03:00 -
[180]
I don't know if CCP has had any past experience with developing a game on a console system. If not, you're so totally screwed. Microsoft is going to tie your wrists to your ankles and pulverize your innards.
Not to mention that the expertise, money and whatnot being shovelled into MS' mouths is going to negatively affect future development of Eve itself. Sure it's only the "Shanghai" studio that's developing DUST but you know damned well they're going to be calling up once or twice a week to cry for more money or more specialized developers to be shipped from CCP's main studio.
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