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Relative Mass
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2009.09.04 12:53:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Relative Mass on 04/09/2009 12:54:14 In a one on one fight (I know,does not happen anymore right?) Which of these two Combat Recons would win? They both have the same slot layout and can field 5x light Tech II drones, I am needing some input as per a simulation program for a school paper I need to write so I figured I'd come here and ask as to possible outcomes. Your opinions and fittings as to specific ship would be very appreciated please. Also tactic used to opposing ship, please.
Keep it smooth. |
Gartel Reiman
Civis Romanus Sum Pax Romana Alliance
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Posted - 2009.09.04 13:01:00 -
[2]
Unless something bizarre happens, the Rook would win - because he can jam the Lachesis intermittently (perhaps reducing his long-term damage by around 50%) while the Lachesis' ewar has no effect on the Rook.
I'd expect the Rook to be capable of doing more raw damage, too.
Part of this of course depends on whether you're talking about conventional fits for the ships, or pilots who set up their ships specifically for this dual. In the latter case, it becomes a case of double- (or even triple-)bluff, since it's obvious that the Rook will fit lots of Magnetometric jammers, so it's equally likely that the Lachesis will fit lots of ECCM (and would forego the damps completely). And then Lachesis would probably be well-served fitting a kinetic hardener, but in light of that the Rook may well choose to go through the fight with a different damage type.
If you choose two specific setups and the starting conditions, it should be a lot clearer who wins. But if both pilots know that it's an artificial 1-on-1 going into it, the range of feasible setups is immense so it's not immediately evident what would be the "best" options to simulate.
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Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2009.09.04 13:14:00 -
[3]
Rook has ROF bonus, not kinetic, so it wouldn't be using kinetic against the Lachesis.
But tbh I can't see how the Lachesis would win. Unless if has some crazy tank and can just tank the Rook's 300-400 DPS. Damps won't help against FOFs and Lachesis DPS isn't great.
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Sybilla Prior
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Posted - 2009.09.04 13:26:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Relative Mass Edited by: Relative Mass on 04/09/2009 12:54:14 In a one on one fight (I know,does not happen anymore right?) Which of these two Combat Recons would win? They both have the same slot layout and can field 5x light Tech II drones, I am needing some input as per a simulation program for a school paper I need to write so I figured I'd come here and ask as to possible outcomes. Your opinions and fittings as to specific ship would be very appreciated please. Also tactic used to opposing ship, please.
Possible outcomes would include either side disangaging and fleeing? Then I'd say the tackling bonus on the lachesis gives it an edge, as it can disengage at will in more situations than the Rook can. So in a vast number of engagements, the Lachesis will more often than the Rook, only stay if it can win.
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Sidus Isaacs
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.09.04 13:29:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Relative Mass Edited by: Relative Mass on 04/09/2009 12:54:14 In a one on one fight (I know,does not happen anymore right?) Which of these two Combat Recons would win? They both have the same slot layout and can field 5x light Tech II drones, I am needing some input as per a simulation program for a school paper I need to write so I figured I'd come here and ask as to possible outcomes. Your opinions and fittings as to specific ship would be very appreciated please. Also tactic used to opposing ship, please.
Imo Rook.
If it started to go badly for it, it "only" got to land one cycle then warp out. It also got very nice ECM strenght, and nice dps for a Recon :). --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html |
Lubomir Penev
Dark Nexxus
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Posted - 2009.09.04 15:16:00 -
[6]
Both can be fitted, to outtank the other even in a gank fit, so my bet is on a draw. -- 081014 : emoragequit, char transfered to a friend, 090317 : back to original owner blog |
Cmd BenJames
Gallente Power Seed Enterprises Vanguard.
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Posted - 2009.09.04 19:33:00 -
[7]
Neither would win really, since when does a conventional rook loadout fit a point?, the lachesis would simply warp off if in trouble
But I do agree that it would end up being a stalemate in the end
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Spaztick
Terminal Impact
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Posted - 2009.09.04 19:44:00 -
[8]
Wouldn't it be entirely possible for the Lachesis to land enough sensor dampeners to keep it pointed out of targeting range?
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Sybilla Prior
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Posted - 2009.09.04 20:13:00 -
[9]
I think if the Lachesis has enough speed to control the range, the rook doesn't stand much of a chance.
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Relative Mass
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2009.09.05 03:39:00 -
[10]
This is really turning out to be more interesting than I had initially thought, seems they both have not thing really over the other, am I right?
Keep it smooth. |
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Katarlia Simov
Minmatar Cowboys From Hell
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Posted - 2009.09.05 09:25:00 -
[11]
It depends on relative fits.
Against 4 max skilled and rigged damps, the rook needs 2 scripted SB's to be able to lock the lach at its max point range. Even then, the rooks lock range is only a few hundred metres longer than the lachs point range, so the lach COULD overheat his point and pull back out of lock range.
So the lach would probably win.
But this fight is a bit academic. In reality, I doubt either pilot would want this fight, and would just ignore each other unless they had support on the way.
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LordInvisible
Gallente GK inc.
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Posted - 2009.09.05 10:44:00 -
[12]
tbh, it depends on both fitings and engaging range..
If rook is fitted for killing lachesis, then lach is dead, but he has to start near the lach.
If lach managed to land 30km or more off, outside scram/web range, then rook is dead.
Lach can simply dampen the rook to 30km range, using point and mwd to keep range..If rook somehow manages to come close, lach just shuts down his mwd and goes out of locking range again..
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- My story: www.subjectx.net/eng |
Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2009.09.05 11:22:00 -
[13]
Originally by: LordInvisible Lach can simply dampen the rook to 30km range, using point and mwd to keep range..If rook somehow manages to come close, lach just shuts down his mwd and goes out of locking range again..
You've never heard of FOFs, then.
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Tippia
Raddick Explorations Controlled Chaos
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Posted - 2009.09.05 11:28:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Gypsio III
Originally by: LordInvisible Lach can simply dampen the rook to 30km range, using point and mwd to keep range..If rook somehow manages to come close, lach just shuts down his mwd and goes out of locking range again..
You've never heard of FOFs, then.
Aren't those more likely to go after the Lach's drones, though? ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki |
Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2009.09.05 11:33:00 -
[15]
Is it a problem if they do?
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The Tzar
Quam Singulari Cult of War
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Posted - 2009.09.05 11:47:00 -
[16]
On paper the rook should win hands down.
In practice, the lachesis (unless stupid enough to get in scram range itself) can always disengage with further scram distance and float out of point range.
Rook has surprising range now on heavies, greater than 100km if I remember correctly. Awesome ship! __________________________________________
'Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear intelligent until they speak' __________________________________________ |
Sahriah BloodStone
Caldari Burning Avarice
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Posted - 2009.09.05 15:29:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Sahriah BloodStone on 05/09/2009 15:28:58 Are you guyz kidding? Why does everyone think the rook would win???
It depends on who locks first.
Lach locks first: A proper fit Lach would damp the rook down to under 30km lock range, and with a warp disruptor that has a 40km+ range there is no way for the Rook to do anything about it but die unless it has stabs fitted
Rook locks first: Rook would perma jam lach, in which case the lach would either warp off (because rooks arnt meant to have points) or MWD out of disruptor range (which it shouldnt be in anyway) and warp out.
Either way Lach can't loose if its flown properly lol
---------------------- Sahriah Bloodstone Burning Avarice
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Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2009.09.05 17:12:00 -
[18]
So you haven't heard of FOFs either.
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Diomidis
Amarr Mythos Corp RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2009.09.05 17:35:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Gypsio III So you haven't heard of FOFs either.
tbh most ppl don't use FoF...hell they don't even carry those in cargo - just in case.
And tbh I wouldn't bet on a Rook pilot thinking that he would be "jammed" and unable to fight back...it's probably the last ship in eve to plan ahead that way...
But it's not like the average Lachesis fits 4x damps, is it? Nor that the average Rook fits a point to begin with...unless we are talking "solo" rook etc...rarely seen, yet viable...(tbh I've lost a Crusader to such a rook - nooooob) Join the Biggest Greek Corp! www.Mythos-eve.com - Join Mythos Channel in game! |
Sahriah BloodStone
Caldari Burning Avarice
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Posted - 2009.09.05 23:25:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Gypsio III So you haven't heard of FOFs either.
Yes Smarty pants we've all heard of FoF's. Im talking a general case of a random 1v1 with a lach as nothing specific was mentioned regarding engagement. MOST people dont even have FoF's in cargo hold, congragulations if you plan ahead but most of the human population does not.
If you want to get into a dicussion on all different senarios we will all be here forever. Both ships can beat both depends on pilot skill and ship setup, but GENERALLY using the most common setups for both ships, the lach will always get away if it doesnt lock first unless the Rook has both a MWD and a warp disruptor, and even then almost of lach are nano'd and would be fast enough to warp off anyway
---------------------- Sahriah Bloodstone Burning Avarice
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Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2009.09.06 11:14:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Sahriah BloodStone
Originally by: Gypsio III So you haven't heard of FOFs either.
Yes Smarty pants we've all heard of FoF's. Im talking a general case of a random 1v1 with a lach as nothing specific was mentioned regarding engagement. MOST people dont even have FoF's in cargo hold, congragulations if you plan ahead but most of the human population does not.
Most people are idiots, then. If you're flying a missile boat and you don't have some of every missile type usable in hold, then you're just asking for a stupid lossmail. It's not as if 200 FOFs of each flavour costs anything or takes up much room.
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Katarlia Simov
Minmatar Cowboys From Hell
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Posted - 2009.09.06 14:55:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Gypsio III
Originally by: Sahriah BloodStone
Originally by: Gypsio III So you haven't heard of FOFs either.
Yes Smarty pants we've all heard of FoF's. Im talking a general case of a random 1v1 with a lach as nothing specific was mentioned regarding engagement. MOST people dont even have FoF's in cargo hold, congragulations if you plan ahead but most of the human population does not.
Most people are idiots, then. If you're flying a missile boat and you don't have some of every missile type usable in hold, then you're just asking for a stupid lossmail. It's not as if 200 FOFs of each flavour costs anything or takes up much room.
So you haven't heard that FoFs don't scramble ?
See that would be your problem...
If the rook can't put a point on the lach, then he can't 'win', and since his FoFs are MUCH more likely to hit drones rather than the actual lach, the rook could have zero dps on the lach until he dies.
Fofs SUCK and are not useable in most situations. They are certainly not viable in 1 vs 1 fights.
Assuming you insist that this fight must happen, then the Lach is the heavy favourite.
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Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2009.09.06 15:25:00 -
[23]
I see you're firmly in the "most people" camp then.
1v1s are the best place for FOFs, as you actually have some control over what they go for. In this case, the Lach's drones won't last long under the Rook's drones and FOFs. The Lachesis may prefer to take out Rook's drones, using its 15 m3 additional drone bay; however, it's DPS that's not being applied to the Rook and the Lachesis's DPS is then feeble.
After the drones are gone, those FOFs are going to hit the Lach, and they're going to hurt. Whether the Rook or Lachesis will run out of EHP/cap first depends on fits, which is too complex to go into. But just thinking "LOL damps no missiles for you noob" is the laziest, stupidest kind of one-dimensional thinking.
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Spaztick
Terminal Impact
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Posted - 2009.09.07 10:58:00 -
[24]
Actually with a 30 sensor strength on the lachesis, it isn't a guaranteed jam even if the Rook blows its load all at once as it locks with all jammers hot. Horrible innuendo aside, the lachesis will be sporting a sensor booster 9/10 times which would guarantee a lock quicker than a rook, which normally has no sensor booster at all, so it's a matter of who gets lucky and gets a lock on first, or whether or not the rook pilot has FoFs and is smart enough to shoot the drones first with his own drones.
Moral of the story: Always carry light drones in your Lachesis.
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