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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 48 post(s) |
Vokanic
Nemitronix Inc
14
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Posted - 2012.06.22 10:16:00 -
[1] - Quote
Aryth wrote: When CCP originally released their devblog on Inferno and revealed the formula they intended to use, we sat in shock. I immediately stated a phrase I would repeat many times: GÇ£/10000 will not save themGÇ¥. CCP made the assumption that rewarding a player 1/10th of the value of the playerGÇÖs kill at 1K ISK/LP, for a total of 10K ISK destroyed CCP Value/1 ISK reward, would prevent manipulation of the system. While this was an understandable mistake, it turned out to be several orders of magnitude off.
The above quote shows why this isn't a bug, and it's not an exploit.
CCPs design was inherently flawed, but it was designed that way. At no point did a CCP employee typo a decimal place in the wrong place. It just doesn't work.
It's not even a formula that a single employee would have used to meet a goal. It was a core component of the whole system. It would have been vetted by numerous people. They probably even did some modelling on it (with the wrong parameters of course).
CCP just had too narrow a vision to figure out what could happen in a system that by design is dynamic in its nature (and value). |
Vokanic
Nemitronix Inc
14
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Posted - 2012.06.22 10:48:00 -
[2] - Quote
Graic Gabtar wrote:I'm imagining the most popular GoogleGäó search performed in Iceland today was "What is an outlier?"
You could have saved 90% of the people reading this thread the trouble by explaining it. Then again, this *is* an entertaining thread, so why stop that by educating the masses. |
Vokanic
Nemitronix Inc
14
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 11:43:00 -
[3] - Quote
Vile rat wrote:There are no such things as death squads who hunt our political enemies. Why, that's just silly.
yer, squad implies some sort of structural organisation to goons in space. It's more a case of some initial pebbles causing the rest of the avalanche to follow in its wake. Point is, don't be at the bottom of the hill (or the guy explaining their lack of vision to their boss at CCP) |
Vokanic
Nemitronix Inc
14
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 11:49:00 -
[4] - Quote
Jade Constantine wrote:Vile rat wrote:Also let me be perfectly blunt here. There was no bug abuse. They made the economy for faction war and they set the parameters. Everything that was done occured within the realm of legal game mechanics even if that wasn't the intention of the dev that coded this. As has been explained blapping frigates with titans wasn't intended either but was considered a legal, if abusive method of using game mechanics. You could argure that having the value of the loot that dropped from the freighters available to process again whilst nonetheless counting in the isk value "destroyed" for LP was an abuse of a bug Vile Vat.
You could argue that if Goons get Sreeg'd, you're next in line. |
Vokanic
Nemitronix Inc
14
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Posted - 2012.06.22 12:27:00 -
[5] - Quote
Jade Constantine wrote:Well you could say that using your $200 keyboard in certain ways is quite okay, but admitting to using it to make 20,000 keypresses in a half dozen hours of automatic "click button get loot" action isn't okay. That really does fall directly into the Eula clause quoted above. I mean lets be honest, it really does - you'd need a pretty top lawyer to argue your way out of that conviction.
How did it accelerate acquisition? A person wants to buy 100 implants, at once, from the LP store. They have the LP to do so. The limitations of the system prevent them from doing so.
End of the day, the LP wasn't acquired via macros. they got the same amount regardless if they use them or not. Unless you'd like to argue that waiting for market transactions to process is 'game play' |
Vokanic
Nemitronix Inc
14
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 12:30:00 -
[6] - Quote
Mabego Tetrimon wrote:Lapine Davion wrote: Really?
The point of my post was to say that buying a keyboard isn't against the EULA, nor is using the features of that keyboard.
REALLY? i suggest you read the Eula before you log on next time. "3. You may not use stored rapid keystrokes that facilitate acquisition of items at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play" (left out additional things, to help you straight it out.
How does a macro help them get more LP?? Since when did buying stuff from the LP market become a skill based on how fast you can click through the UI because you cant purchase more then 1 at once? |
Vokanic
Nemitronix Inc
14
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 12:33:00 -
[7] - Quote
Mabego Tetrimon wrote:Vokanic wrote: How did it accelerate acquisition? A person wants to buy 100 implants, at once, from the LP store. They have the LP to do so. The limitations of the system prevent them from doing so.
End of the day, the LP wasn't acquired via macros. they got the same amount regardless if they use them or not. Unless you'd like to argue that waiting for market transactions to process is 'game play'
i see a BIG difference between using 14 hours of clicking time by hand (as it should be by ordinary game play) and like dk 5 minutes of using a Macro. You Sir not?
You want each implant purchase to take over 5 minutes? |
Vokanic
Nemitronix Inc
14
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Posted - 2012.06.22 12:41:00 -
[8] - Quote
Mabego Tetrimon wrote:Vokanic wrote:
How does a macro help them get more LP?? Since when did buying stuff from the LP market become a skill based on how fast you can click through the UI because you cant purchase more then 1 at once?
read before post please. To aquire that lot of items in a regular way the goons needed aprox 14 hours of regular clicking OR using a macro. The use of Macro is baned for aquiring items (not for firing guns, btw) by Eula. IF they did it with Macro they broke the Eula on that too.
Here's an experiment for you to try.
Open the LP store. Put your mouse over the accept button on the item you want to buy Click the left mouse button Hit enter on the keyboard. Repeat the last 2 steps as fast as possible.
With the time taken for the game to process the request, you'll get the same amount of items as if you used a macro over the same amount of time.
In fact a macro would need a delay programmed into it, otherwise half your clicks, and half your 'enter's would miss their intended place in the process. It simply removes the risk of RSI in that case |
Vokanic
Nemitronix Inc
14
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Posted - 2012.06.22 12:53:00 -
[9] - Quote
Mabego Tetrimon wrote:Vokanicq wrote: In fact a macro would need a delay programmed into it, otherwise half your clicks, and half your 'enter's would miss their intended place in the process. It simply removes the risk of RSI in that case
i dont care if it takes away risk or take even more time to use a macro to aquire that kind of items from the LP Store. Its irrelevant. Whats relevant is, that using the macro for that breaks the Eula.
You do know that the rule you were quoting does specifically say if it speeds up acquisition? It is therefore perfectly legal for me to use a macro, if its slower then what I can manually click.
I can spend an hour manually collecting my 100 implants, or set a macro overnight and have it take 8 hours, very slowly. It takes longer then normal gameplay, I still get the implants, and its totally within the rules.
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Vokanic
Nemitronix Inc
14
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Posted - 2012.06.22 13:07:00 -
[10] - Quote
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1517044#post1517044
Macros that slow down acquisition are within the rules. Also goons saying they use macros isn't exactly proof.. |
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Vokanic
Nemitronix Inc
15
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Posted - 2012.06.22 17:41:00 -
[11] - Quote
corestwo wrote:The considerably different tone in these articles is amusing. Guess which of these authors does not like goons, and which either likes us or is ambivalent? (hint the answer is that I'm pretty sure Brendan Drain was the guy who mittens ripped a new one over his sensationalist "reporting" of the fanfest fiasco)
and in both cases it will drive new players to eve. and thats why this is such a fine edged blade that ccp dance on. (and no other game company ever will I suspect) |
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