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Exlegion
Caldari Salva Veritate
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Posted - 2010.03.15 16:16:00 -
[1]
Greetings. If you use any of the Caldari ships with a bonus to kinetic damage and you mission/NPC with it you will probably want to know, if you donÆt already, whether it benefits you to use kinetic damage or the NPC-specific damage.
I ran some quick numbers based on EFT and Chruker's Website and just wanted to share my findings with you. I mostly used NPC heavy assault ships and average bounty battleships for my calculations. When I have a chance IÆll try some calculations with some of the more pesky assault frigates which are harder to kill. I did not calculate damage against the four main factions or NPCs already weak to kinetic.
And on to the verdict:
Drones û YouÆre better off with EM. Angels û Kinetic is better. Bloods û YouÆre better off sticking with EM. Sansha û YouÆre better off sticking with EM. Mercenaries û Kinetic is only slightly better than thermal.
Kinetic is also (and obviously) the better choice against Guristas, Serpentis, EOM, and Mordus.
In conclusion, load up on kinetic and EM. ItÆs all you need if you donÆt mission against the main factions. The kinetic bonus allows you to completely discard the thermal and explosive ammo.
The formulas used were simple, even with shield vs. armor ratios taken into account. If anyone is interested I can post them here.
Hope this helps.
One of us equals many of us. Disrespect one of us, you'll see plenty of us. - Gang Starr |
DeMichael Crimson
Minmatar Republic University
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Posted - 2010.03.17 05:56:00 -
[2]
Nice info, But I fly Minmatar ships and usually go with long range ammo (Nuclear). As for the rats, I'll refit drones and use the type that deals out the specific/top DPS for that NPC.
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Maziy
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Posted - 2010.03.17 07:34:00 -
[3]
Originally by: DeMichael Crimson Nice info, But I fly Minmatar ships and usually go
Wow, this thread has literally NOTHING to do with you or your playing experience in any way whatsoever.
Zero.
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FTLENGAGE
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Posted - 2010.03.17 09:32:00 -
[4]
DAMAGE does not matter
Volleys per ship does
ill stick with kinetic as it is virtually the same dmg as em anyway
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Exlegion
Caldari Salva Veritate
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Posted - 2010.03.17 13:20:00 -
[5]
I also ran some numbers comparing T1, T2 (fury and precision), and faction heavy missiles. I was specifically interested in knowing if indeed precision heavy missiles were inferior to faction when it came to signature radius and explosion radius.
I compared results using different frigates and assault frigates. They were pretty much consistent. As an example see below:
Arch Gistii Impaler (Signature Radius: 35m) <== These guys are pretty tough.
Scourge Precision Heavy Missile Explosion Radius: 84m Kinetic Damage: 299
Caldari Navy Scourge Missile Explosion Radius: 93.75 Damage: 395
Scourge Missile (T1) Explosion Radius: 93.75 Damage: 344
Precision's net damage: (35/84)*299 = 125 Faction's net damage: (35/93.75)*395 = 147 Scourge (T1) damage: (35/93.75)*344 = 128
Faction takes the lead, with T1 actually being better than precision against small targets and only when taking into account explosion radius.
I also ran some numbers with a target painter fitted. The results were the same with the deltas being greater. So a TP helps faction more than it does the other types.
Without including explosion velocity I can't say for certain, but at first glance it seems precision heavy missiles could use a boost in either damage or a further decrease in explosion radius. In any case I'll run some numbers taking explosion velocity into account and only if I can find a reliable missile formula somewhere.
One of us equals many of us. Disrespect one of us, you'll see plenty of us. - Gang Starr |
Exlegion
Caldari Salva Veritate
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Posted - 2010.03.17 13:31:00 -
[6]
Originally by: FTLENGAGE DAMAGE does not matter
Volleys per ship does
ill stick with kinetic as it is virtually the same dmg as em anyway
It is very common that the damage increase ends up saving you a volley or two per ship. And that could make a big difference even in just one mission.
One of us equals many of us. Disrespect one of us, you'll see plenty of us. - Gang Starr |
Lugalzagezi666
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Posted - 2010.03.17 13:45:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Exlegion It is very common that the damage increase ends up saving you a volley or two per ship. And that could make a big difference even in just one mission.
This is true. Especially when we are talking about relatively low dps weapon system - hmls. More dps = less rep cycles for rats.
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Wet Ferret
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Posted - 2010.03.17 15:59:00 -
[8]
Originally by: FTLENGAGE DAMAGE does not matter
Volleys per ship does
ill stick with kinetic as it is virtually the same dmg as em anyway
You're so wildy out-there incorrect. The difference in damage against EM weak rats is so huge, even with level 5 ship skill, that it'd blow your mind if you took 2 minutes to learn WTF you are talking about.
edit: and just to remind you, there is still no divider between posts and sigs.
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Alsyth
Night Warder
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Posted - 2010.03.17 16:13:00 -
[9]
What is the kinetic bonus considered ?
Tengu with offensive sub V ? Drake with BC lvlIV ?
It makes a huge difference.
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Exlegion
Caldari Salva Veritate
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Posted - 2010.03.17 16:36:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Alsyth What is the kinetic bonus considered ?
Tengu with offensive sub V ? Drake with BC lvlIV ?
It makes a huge difference.
I did my numbers considering a Tengu with the Accelerated Ejection Bay subsystem and all relevant skills at 5. It offers a 25% damage to kinetic, same as the Drake, Cerberus, etc. So as far as I'm concerned the difference should be linear with all these ships. In other words, fitting kinetic over EM on a Tengu should yield the same damage ratio as fitting kinetic over EM on a Cerberus. I could be wrong and feel free to correct me if I am.
However and with that said, these numbers are only good if the player has all relevant skills to 5. If the skills are lower it is possible that using the other flavors (specifically thermal and explosive) yields better DPS.
One of us equals many of us. Disrespect one of us, you'll see plenty of us. - Gang Starr |
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Vherr Arkhar
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Posted - 2010.03.17 17:45:00 -
[11]
Originally by: FTLENGAGE DAMAGE does not matter
Volleys per ship does
ill stick with kinetic as it is virtually the same dmg as em anyway
This is actually true. But I think it might be included in the OP. If not he got lucky, because he's right.
But I know quite a lot of people who just dont give a rats a** about switching dmg type.
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Kzintee
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.03.17 18:23:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Exlegion
Angels û Kinetic is better.
This is actually exact same conclusion I came up with when doing my analysis of one-fits-all lvl5 boats.
Tengu shooting t2 Kinetic was exactly same as Tengu shooting t2 Exp. The damage bonus was compensating for higher resists. Now, I only did the analysis vs. a single most common BS target but NPC resists are pretty standardized within their fleets.
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Wet Ferret
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Posted - 2010.03.17 19:40:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Vherr Arkhar
Originally by: FTLENGAGE DAMAGE does not matter
Volleys per ship does
ill stick with kinetic as it is virtually the same dmg as em anyway
This is actually true. But I think it might be included in the OP. If not he got lucky, because he's right.
But I know quite a lot of people who just dont give a rats a** about switching dmg type.
Other than the fact that damage directly affects volleys per ship.
Against cruiser/BC targets it might not matter in some, maybe even most cases. But when dealing with many BS, elite frig target (where in a Tengu for example you'd have to target and kill each one) it certainly starts to matter.
edit: and just to remind you, there is still no divider between posts and sigs.
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Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2010.03.18 02:10:00 -
[14]
Originally by: FTLENGAGE Damage does not matter Volleys per ship does
*incredulous stare*
Originally by: Wet Ferret Other than the fact that damage directly affects volleys per ship.
QFE.
Damage per missile directly influences damage per volley. Volleys per ship is inversely proportional to damage per volley. Volleys per ship is also affected by weapon cycle time.
If you raise damage per missile, volleys per ship is reduced. If you reduce cycle time, volleys per ship is reduced.
How can damage not matter, when you're concerned about volleys per ship?
TL;DR: lrn2math
[Aussie players: join channels ANZAC or AUSSIES] |
stoicfaux
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Posted - 2010.03.18 15:07:00 -
[15]
You can also get a damage type summary at jovelabs.com. For example: Smuggler Interception. Check out the mission-wide analysis.
As for using Kinetic instead of EM, it's a bad idea. Using EM will normally save you a volley or two over using kinetic.
For example, a HML Tengu with max skills, implants, etc., a Corpus Cardinal takes 12 volleys to kill with EM, or 14 volleys with Kinetic.
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