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AnarConn
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Posted - 2010.04.12 08:40:00 -
[1]
Let me first start of with the fact i love EVE. with that said, theres one thing that really bugs me:
cloakers
almost everything in eve is a balanced system of gain something while lose something, take bs forexample, you gain alot of heavy firepower and tankage but you lose alot with speed and agility. The only think i can come up with that isnt balanced yet is cloakers. all you need is pretty much get to skill to fit a cloak on ur ship park urself in enemyspace and theres nothing they can do to find you, except for the extreme lucky bastard who just happend to run into, which is highly unlikely if they are in a safespot. What i would suggest is some mechanic so theres atleast a slim chance to find ppl with cloak. Discussed the matter with some of my corpmates and they kinda agree its far to easy to just get a cloak fit it on a ship park ur ship in enemy space and u can litterly just sit there doing nothing while they might interrupt all operations.
Would be great if there was a very hard to get probe (ie maxed or close to maxed out probe scanning skills) that will give u a general direction of where they are or something. it could have like a small deviation if you found where you enemy was so you have to first scan him down, then zigzag around the area where you tracked him down. Would make life more intresting for the cloakers and the anticloakers ^_^
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Mark Hadden
Amarr Intergalactic Serenity Ev0ke
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Posted - 2010.04.12 08:49:00 -
[2]
Another afk cloaker whine?
Cloaks are fine and a counter itself against getting probed and killed.
Starving system activities with a cloaker is all right also, if you cant counter/bait a cloaker you have no qualification to inhabit any 0.0 system anyways, so get out there.
Carebears tears are delicious, especially flowing out of stations because of an evil red somewhere out there :-D
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AnarConn
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Posted - 2010.04.12 08:53:00 -
[3]
its not a whine. Eve is all about balance, and i dont see anything to balance a cloak.
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Jasmine Starstryder
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Posted - 2010.04.12 09:01:00 -
[4]
Those who can do, those who can't cloak ..... for hours and hours and hours
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Mark Hadden
Amarr Intergalactic Serenity Ev0ke
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Posted - 2010.04.12 09:06:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Mark Hadden on 12/04/2010 09:06:32
Originally by: AnarConn its not a whine. Eve is all about balance, and i dont see anything to balance a cloak.
how is cloak imbalanced?? You can do a **** when cloaked... No threat.
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AnarConn
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Posted - 2010.04.12 09:16:00 -
[6]
omg.. id say a insult but you prolly just enjoy it. anyways, back on topic. All i try to do is make eve life more intresting, but clearly you like sitting cloaked for hours and hours and hours and hours doing nothing. if your not mature enough to fight without your cloak then go troll another thread
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Laurew
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Posted - 2010.04.12 09:26:00 -
[7]
being able to find the ratting ***s with a cloak on their ravens - yes being able to find a cov ops ship - no way
drop the cloak from your raven and fit a neut. problem solved
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Mark Hadden
Amarr Intergalactic Serenity Ev0ke
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Posted - 2010.04.12 09:45:00 -
[8]
Originally by: AnarConn All i try to do is make eve life more intresting, but clearly you like sitting cloaked for hours and hours and hours and hours doing nothing.
you mean safer for ratters? Afking in a system is often the only way to catch (cloaky) ratters instantly hiding in a POS if you enter the system.
Originally by: AnarConn
if your not mature enough to fight without your cloak then go troll another thread
tbh, a cloak whine deserves nothing but trolling.
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darius mclever
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Posted - 2010.04.12 10:01:00 -
[9]
cloak is the counter to probes.
the cloak comes with penalties: - scan res reduction - sensor recalibration penalty - speed penalty under cloak
this *is* balanced.
and the problem is not the cloaker in the space. the problem is that you see them instantly. the problem is between your ears because you let them affect you. the solution would be to use wormhole space like local everywhere in 0.0 and then we shall see how much you care about the cloaker.
until that happens ... never rat alone. rat in pairs (atleast). fit your ship with tackle so you can fight them.
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AnarConn
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Posted - 2010.04.12 10:03:00 -
[10]
i think you took a wrong turn back at a intersection *points towards the door* thats the way to the trolling department. if you dont wanna contribute with other than the usual "no i like my cloaky gank ship" whine, dont step up. And for your information i wasnt thinking of safety for ratters, i was thinking of excitement for pvpers which i think is like 90% of the eve players, your clearly not one of em
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Ned Black
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Posted - 2010.04.12 10:07:00 -
[11]
I do believe that this have been given as a "fix" like 23947274827349 times before...
Remove local.
Simple huh? Now that AFK cloaker wont bother you in the slightest... well, not until the cloaker decloaks right next to you and kill you that is...
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darius mclever
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Posted - 2010.04.12 10:08:00 -
[12]
Originally by: AnarConn i think you took a wrong turn back at a intersection *points towards the door* thats the way to the trolling department. if you dont wanna contribute with other than the usual "no i like my cloaky gank ship" whine, dont step up. And for your information i wasnt thinking of safety for ratters, i was thinking of excitement for pvpers which i think is like 90% of the eve players, your clearly not one of em
lol. many pvpers use afk cloaking to catch targets. especially in wormholes :) but hey it is always easier to attack people personally than to bring arguments. right?
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Mark Hadden
Amarr Intergalactic Serenity Ev0ke
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Posted - 2010.04.12 10:34:00 -
[13]
Originally by: AnarConn i was thinking of excitement for pvpers which i think is like 90% of the eve players, your clearly not one of em
"excitement for pvpers" lol you mean ratters, who jump out of their ravens into a rifter(pvp) for scaring the evil cloaker off, only because he disturbs their ratting activities??
Have seen all sorts of behavior while I've been cloaked in a ratters system, they smack you in local, they rant about you, they bring interceptors, rifters, all kinds of stuff for chasing you out of their ratting oasis. But this is all they can do about you, showing their shiny ships you don't have to bother about, you sit there and just wait.. Its fine =)
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation
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Posted - 2010.04.12 12:22:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Mark Hadden tbh, a cloak whine deserves nothing but trolling.
Tell the moderators about it. Nothing beats a good trolling. --
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Grarr Dexx
Amarr GK inc. Panda Team
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Posted - 2010.04.12 12:38:00 -
[15]
Fitting a cloak doesn't come with disadvantages? You clearly have no idea what you are talking about. ___
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Abbot Laarkin
Order Of Mystical Mountain Monks
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Posted - 2010.04.12 13:12:00 -
[16]
Originally by: AnarConn omg.. id say a insult but you prolly just enjoy it. anyways, back on topic. All i try to do is make eve life more intresting, but clearly you like sitting cloaked for hours and hours and hours and hours doing nothing. if your not mature enough to fight without your cloak then go troll another thread
Scenario 1: I'm in a cov ops frig. I have almost no offensive capability whatsoever. I'm sitting cloaked for hours on end (AT the keyboard) gathering Intel on you, your corp, your ships, what pos might be around, your active/ inactive times etc.
To do this I am sacrificing a considerable amount of game-time in order to gain an advantage over you. I have taken the time and made the effort to increase my in-game and out-of-game skills in order to do this as effectively as possible. This is in the nature of the game, the advantage goes to those willing to work for it. I am not an (immediate) threat to you, so I should not be a problem (yet). If you are too lazy/ careless or indeed "immature" to understand this and deal with it, then possibly you/ your corp/ your alliance are not ready for null-sec life.
Scenario 2:
I'm in a Bomber/ recon. The number of valid targets is limited by my ship choice. I am also required to make a decision whenever I do see a valid target as to whether or not it is bait. Setting up a trap for a solo bomber/ recon is actually rather easy. All you require is a little skill, determination and decent corp-mates. If you do not meet these requirements then possibly you/ your corp/ your alliance are not ready for null-sec life.
In conclusion:
If I am AFK I am no threat to you whatsoever. I can not harm you in any way, shape or form.
If I am AT the keyboard then I am only a limited threat at worst. With a little skill and determination on your part that threat can be mitigated almost completely, in fact one little slip-up on my part buys me a one-way ticket to my next clone.
If I am scouting for my Alliance (scenario 1) then you have a far bigger problem than one little cloaker.
Dealing with a cloaker in system is not impossible, it's not even that hard tbh. With just a minimal input of effort, and maybe a minor change in the day-to-day running of your corp activities, you can learn to handle the situation as a mature person might Rather than coming here to whine about something that any self respecting null-sec corp would consider a minor inconvenience.
This is not a troll, null-sec is not for everyone. If AFK cloakers really are that much of an issue to you then you have a nasty shock in store when something truly dangerous happens to you.
Peace.
----
Originally by: Sir Carnage
Originally by: Marko Riva Why does that read like they're all 12 and have an IQ of 37?
I was under the impression they were 37 and had an IQ of 12
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Cailais
Amarr British Armoured Division The G0dfathers
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Posted - 2010.04.12 13:26:00 -
[17]
Let me first start of with the fact i love EVE. with that said, theres one thing that really bugs me:
ratters.
almost everything in eve is a balanced system of gain something while lose something, take bs forexample, you gain alot of heavy firepower and tankage but you lose alot with speed and agility. The only think i can come up with that isnt balanced yet is ratters. all you need is pretty much get to skill to fit a ship park urself in space and theres nothing they can do to stop you running off when they enter local, except for the extreme unlucky bastard who just happend to not pay attention to local chat, which is highly unlikely if they are awake. What i would suggest is some mechanic so theres atleast a slim chance to hide from these carebears. Discussed the matter with some of my corpmates and they kinda agree its far to easy to just get a ship park ur ship in space and u can litterly just sit there ratting all day long while no one can interrupt any operations.
Would be great if there was a module (ie a cloaking system) that will give u a chance to loiter in a system? it could have like a small penalty to say speed or locking time so you couldn't attack immediately and of course you couldnt lock anyone whilst cloaked. Would make life more intresting for the npc ratters and the mission runners! ^_^
C.
the hydrostatic capsule blog
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Horchan
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.04.12 15:31:00 -
[18]
The way to counter a cloak? Nerf Local. ---
DesuSigs |
mchief117
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Posted - 2010.04.12 16:12:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Horchan The way to counter a cloak? Nerf Local.
I find it funny how every counter proposal to a cloak counter is to remove local , which actualy boasts cloaks power, dont get me wrong here as i like my indys ability to go poof when some one shows up but for the love of "insert holy icon here" stop trying to make cloaking more powerfull by removing local.
Addtionaly what kind of " insert fecal matter of your choice here" is the argument that if im cloaked i cant harm you...... it takes all of at most a minute for any ship to become fully active using the most basic cloak and there are rigs and improved cloaking devices to shorten that down.
on the topic of the OP i do belive that there should be a acivte way to scan down a ship , but it in no way should be a cake walk. eahter a powergrid hungry module or a "inser name of hidden ships destroyer" ship itself.
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Abbot Laarkin
Order Of Mystical Mountain Monks
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Posted - 2010.04.12 16:50:00 -
[20]
Originally by: mchief117
Originally by: Horchan The way to counter a cloak? Nerf Local.
snip... Addtionaly what kind of " insert fecal matter of your choice here" is the argument that if im cloaked i cant harm you...... it takes all of at most a minute for any ship to become fully active using the most basic cloak and there are rigs and improved cloaking devices to shorten that down.
...snip....
If you're cloaked you can't harm me, not even slightly (discounting the gathering of intel as harm). When you uncloak you could potentially harm me, however at this point I can also harm you. This is the point. Which of us is better prepared to deal with the other?
If you uncloak near me and you take a minute to be combat ready you are almost certainly dead, especially if you have used up a load of slots to counteract the effects of a cloak on a non-dedicated ship. I know you're in system and I will be prepared to act accordingly. So will my corp-mates. This is the main point I'm trying to get across.
Cloaking is a powerfull tool to be sure, but it is not an "I-win" button except when used against those who for whatever reason are incapable of dealing with it.
If you have an cloaker in system and you are not prepared to deal with him/ her then you have only yourself to blame. Learn to deal, and you will never be bothered by an afk(or otherwise) cloaker again. I believe the following saying may be of relevence here...
"Proper Preparation and Planning Prevents ****-Poor Performance"
Peace. ----
Originally by: Sir Carnage
Originally by: Marko Riva Why does that read like they're all 12 and have an IQ of 37?
I was under the impression they were 37 and had an IQ of 12
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darius mclever
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Posted - 2010.04.12 17:32:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Misanthra There are solutions to afk cloakies. Communication and coordination is one.
System doesn't have to shut down. If in say your ratting system, well, no one rats alone. First person jumped has to do the most thing in the world....say help help I am being attacked. Most cloakies don't have a drake like tank (have not seen black op bs's doing solo work anyway....usually sb's/recons) and even 3 pve ships ganged up got a decent chance to pop one (or at the minimum will give them seoncd thoughts about being there). Just make sure your ratters got tank to stand a little pvp is all.
Option 2...take a break from carebearism and form a bait gang. Heres how it works, bait goes to the belt like an unsuspecting ratter and rats. Other side of a gate, several of his friends are on standby. Afk cloaky hopefully takes the bate, wonders why the ratter is suddenly pointed/scramming him and goes ohh crap when he is jumped.
Heres the deal with cloakies....they suck until you fly one lol. Get out your systems and knee deep into enemy territory, trust me you'll appreciate the cloak ability more. Cloakies are special purpose ships, this is their purpose. Kind of pointless to have them if they lose cloak in enemy systems lol.
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Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2010.04.12 17:56:00 -
[22]
Question is if the penalties are steep enough if everyone and their dogs are fitting them.
As primarily a defensive module shouldn't ships not designed for cloaks be a lot more gimped in the offensive department when fitting them?
Remove the ability to lock entirely and you are rid of practically all the macro ratters, you leave the ability to grief-cloak-camp a system and you put an end so many other forms of gayness involving the module.
The cloaking ganks can still be accomplished by using all the coverts and black ops .. so remove ability of "civilian" ships to target anything with a cloak fitted.
PS: Does super-capitals still use them to escape justice. If so then its a double whammy and leads to more super-cap kills.
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darius mclever
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Posted - 2010.04.12 18:18:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Hirana Yoshida Question is if the penalties are steep enough if everyone and their dogs are fitting them.
As primarily a defensive module shouldn't ships not designed for cloaks be a lot more gimped in the offensive department when fitting them?
Remove the ability to lock entirely and you are rid of practically all the macro ratters, you leave the ability to grief-cloak-camp a system and you put an end so many other forms of gayness involving the module.
The cloaking ganks can still be accomplished by using all the coverts and black ops .. so remove ability of "civilian" ships to target anything with a cloak fitted.
PS: Does super-capitals still use them to escape justice. If so then its a double whammy and leads to more super-cap kills.
did you ever fit a improved/prototype cloak yourself and looked at your ship afterwards?
just for some numbers. lets use the raven (seems to be a popular pve ship) and all lvl5 toon: scan res: 106.3mm (12s cruiser, 8.3s battleship ,19.6s frigate) speed: 118m/s sensor recalibration delay: 0s
now we fit a prototype cloaking device I: scan res: 53.1mm (lock times: 24s cruiser, 16.6s battleship, 39.2s frigate) speed: 12m/s sensor recalibration delay: 15s (18s with lvl4 which i assume most people have) reactivation delay: 30s
now we fit a improved cloaking device II: scan res: 63.8mm (lock times: 20s cruiser, 13.8s battleship, 32.7s frigate) speed: 29m/s sensor recalibration delay: 10s (12s with lvl4 which i assume most people have) reactivation delay: 30s
those penalties are really not enough? even with cloak+mwd on gates a ceptor/fast cruiser has a decent chance of decloaking the ship.
yes, ships with covert ops cloak have fewer penalties, but they trade it in for relatively light tanks.
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Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2010.04.12 18:35:00 -
[24]
No I have not fitted a cloak for years now because I don't enjoy being gimped even when self-inflicted My ratting/mission BS usually have sensor boosters because they are so damn slow to lock anything to begin with (HACs are much nicer to rat in for that reason).
Originally by: darius mclever ..those penalties are really not enough? even with cloak+mwd on gates a ceptor/fast cruiser has a decent chance of decloaking the ship.
Apparently not. The most common complaints of null-sec hunters and gate campers is swarms of cloaking ravens and the mwd/cloak gimmick respectively.
Are there any actual PvP'ers who use cloaks these days or is it only the ratting Ravens and jittery haulers?
Covert ships do have lighter tanks in general, but then they are not exactly designed for the stand up fights so doesn't really need them in the first place. Ships designed for cloaking in one way or another (Coverts/BOs) would/should remain untouched at any rate.
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darius mclever
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Posted - 2010.04.12 18:39:00 -
[25]
i think it is both. pvpers moving ships and ratters. and ... people whining about something are usually not the most competent players. I can tell from experiences that it is hard to catch them but not impossible. we even manage to catch bombers with ceptors. =)
It really seems that some people cant really accept that you cant get every kill.
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Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2010.04.12 18:58:00 -
[26]
Originally by: darius mclever i think it is both. pvpers moving ships and ratters. ..
Should have phrased that differently. Are there any actual PvP'ers who PvP in cloaking non-cloaky ships? If they use them for moving ships, good on them, they shouldn't need to be able to lock anything .. probably have a few a stabs fitted as well so would take forever anyway. Which leaves the ratting ravens (haulers don't need locks) .. would it be such a terrible thing if they were killed or buggered off on their own?
Originally by: darius mclever It really seems that some people cant really accept that you cant get every kill.
Blasphemer!
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darius mclever
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Posted - 2010.04.12 19:02:00 -
[27]
Edited by: darius mclever on 12/04/2010 19:05:55
Originally by: Hirana Yoshida
Should have phrased that differently. Are there any actual PvP'ers who PvP in cloaking non-cloaky ships?
my cerb has a cloak e.g. nice to chill in hostile space if they decide to blob again.
Originally by: Hirana Yoshida
If they use them for moving ships, good on them, they shouldn't need to be able to lock anything .. probably have a few a stabs fitted as well so would take forever anyway. Which leaves the ratting ravens (haulers don't need locks) .. would it be such a terrible thing if they were killed or buggered off on their own?
i think the penalties are harsh enough to prevent the "uncloak+gank" from e.g. battleships. the speed penalty is bad enough aswell. you need some training to get out in the unbonused ships.
as it stands you can try to run but got a gimped chance of defending yourself in the case you get caught.
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Solostrom
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Posted - 2010.04.12 19:07:00 -
[28]
Originally by: AnarConn Let me first start of with the fact i love EVE. with that said, theres one thing that really bugs me:
cloakers
almost everything in eve is a balanced system of gain something while lose something, take bs forexample, you gain alot of heavy firepower and tankage but you lose alot with speed and agility. The only think i can come up with that isnt balanced yet is cloakers. all you need is pretty much get to skill to fit a cloak on ur ship park urself in enemyspace and theres nothing they can do to find you, except for the extreme lucky bastard who just happend to run into, which is highly unlikely if they are in a safespot. What i would suggest is some mechanic so theres atleast a slim chance to find ppl with cloak. Discussed the matter with some of my corpmates and they kinda agree its far to easy to just get a cloak fit it on a ship park ur ship in enemy space and u can litterly just sit there doing nothing while they might interrupt all operations.
Would be great if there was a very hard to get probe (ie maxed or close to maxed out probe scanning skills) that will give u a general direction of where they are or something. it could have like a small deviation if you found where you enemy was so you have to first scan him down, then zigzag around the area where you tracked him down. Would make life more intresting for the cloakers and the anticloakers ^_^
Confirming that the above poster is butthurt cause I am cloaked in his system as we speak.
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darius mclever
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Posted - 2010.04.12 19:10:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Solostrom Confirming that the above poster is butthurt cause I am cloaked in his system as we speak.
*Gna* i was almost there! lets see who was the next on the "cloak whine punishing"-list. got to move somewhere else now lol.
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Raiiden
Gallente Unknown-Entity Black Star Alliance
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Posted - 2010.04.12 19:12:00 -
[30]
ROFLMAO
One image per signature please. Zymurgist |
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