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Shedden
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Posted - 2010.05.13 18:42:00 -
[1]
im going to make a pvp char from scratch and i was wondering which race to chose as the are both different in manyways and the char is for fighting in fleets
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Cyan Cure
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Posted - 2010.05.13 19:28:00 -
[2]
If your only concern are fleets, then Amarr would propobly be best due to the effective range on lasers and overall really good logistics and e-war platforms.
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Shedden
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Posted - 2010.05.13 20:15:00 -
[3]
then why in fleets do you see lots of gallente? and i mean small and large fleet engagements?
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Cyan Cure
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Posted - 2010.05.13 20:38:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Cyan Cure on 13/05/2010 20:45:06
Originally by: Shedden then why in fleets do you see lots of gallente? and i mean small and large fleet engagements?
They didn't plan their characters purely for fleet engagements. Gallente are good alaround at PvP and PvE, they have an alot bigger lineup of viable combat ships. Amarr overall are one trick ponies, they have alot of gimpy ships i.e. alot of tank but little DPS. But in fleets Amarr shine and perform overall better than Gallente. Amarr deal damage instantly due to their range, they don't have to move around as much if you have tacklers, tank really well alone and in RR gangs. Again Amarr e-war and logistics are really good, way better than what Gallente has to offer.
Since you've asked the questions, i'll add this. If your planned character is your only character, then go with Gallente, they have a wider variety of ships. They'll do PvE alot better, when it comes to ship selection, they do alot better in solo PvP too. In small gangs they perform good, depending on gang size, don't expect high damge on killmails, depending on the setup. In fleets, like rr bs gangs they perform as good as rails do, meaning not so much.
There are just a lot of possibilities, it's hard to just run through all of them on a whim, so sorry for the vague answer.
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Donny Maurasi
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Posted - 2010.05.13 20:56:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Shedden then why in fleets do you see lots of gallente? and i mean small and large fleet engagements?
Overall Amarr tend to be the best fleet ships in the game for large and small fleet. However Amarr tend to not be so great for soloing with exception of the Pilgrim and maybe one or two other ships.
Overall Amarr are kinda weak in the sub BC T1 ship department with exception of the Arbitrator which is a ok solo/gang support ship.
Gallente on the other hand tend to have several great solo boats but on the other hand aren't as good in fleet engagements (however they aren't terrible)
In the t2 ship department Gallente tend to be lacking to a certain degree and blasters often leave much to be desired.
It really just depends what you plan to do as to which race is better suited for your needs.
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ROXGenghis
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Posted - 2010.05.13 22:01:00 -
[6]
I think any serious PVP'er would consider Minmatar, who are extremely versatile and can perform well in all types of fleets.
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Shedden
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Posted - 2010.05.14 10:27:00 -
[7]
if your saying minmitar are best can you explain how they are best
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uredo
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Posted - 2010.05.14 11:46:00 -
[8]
Amarr are best fleet because their battleships have:
1) Massive EHP buffer (thick armour and good resists) 2) Good range using lasers 3) Decent damage 4) Are armor tanked (must fleet logistics are armor)
Fleet fights involve calling primaries, so active tanks are a waste of time. When you are called primary there is no chance you will repair the incoming DPS, therefore buffer always wins.
Minmatar are the best small gang/solo because:
1) Amarr are too slow and lack mid slots 2) Gallente need close range and struggle to get there and stay there since the QR web nerf. 3) Caldari use missiles which are slow to reach target
There are gross generalisation, but generally true. Minmatar are fast, have capless guns, the best tracking and decent damage especially using T2 guns with Barrage loaded.
But there are exceptions to all of these statements. Other races apart from Amarr do have decent fleet ships, and the non-minmatar races also have decent small gang/solo ships.
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steejans nix
Amarr 0beron Construct Rat Pack Renegades
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Posted - 2010.05.14 12:36:00 -
[9]
Fly which ever you think you would rather fly, can always cross train at a later date once all the core skills are in.
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Shedden
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Posted - 2010.05.14 14:04:00 -
[10]
i would also like to ask what race of capital ships would be good for fleets?
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Taudia
Gallente Sane Industries Inc. Initiative Mercenaries
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Posted - 2010.05.14 14:28:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Shedden then why in fleets do you see lots of gallente? and i mean small and large fleet engagements?
You see lots of Gallente in fleets for the same reason as you used to see lots of ravens in RR BS fleets - they're popular for pve so the non-dedicated pvp alliances have lots of people who can't fly the good fleet BS. They're primarily bad because they do not have a good gun dps platform for RR BS fleets (like armageddon/apoc or tempest.
Amarr: Great range and brute force - good for fleets but weak in the small ships. Probably the best dedicated fleet race atm with standout ships like armageddon, guardian, zealot and apoc.
Gallente: Great for solo/small gangs but pretty lackluster in larger fleets and in general requires a good bit of skill. Note that due to the general lacklusterness of rails and low low range of blasters, gallente gunboats aren't at all optimal for fleets. Most notably Gallente have probably the best frigate sized ships atm, especially for solo.
Minmatar: Probably the strongest lineup of ships atm, with good ships in nearly every category. For solo or small gangs, there are lots of good options like Rifter, claw, jaguar, Hurricane, Rapier, Typhoon, Maelstrom or Vagabond. For fleets or larger gangs Muninn, Tempest (arty alpha is really good), broadsword, sabre, scimitar or stilletto.
Caldari: Drakes and falcons. Lots of more experienced solo/small gang pvpers use caldari ships regularily but they are not obviously good like the minmatar ships speed/range boats and do not have the killer brute force of Amarr. Notably Onyx, Basilisk and Drake do pretty well in fleet/small gang context.
Also, didn't you leave to join a pirate corp man? Shouldn't you ask those guys this kind of thing?
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Shedden
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Posted - 2010.05.14 15:12:00 -
[12]
I have joined a pirate corp and you know pirates dont fly around in 500 man fleets with capitalships etc
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ROXGenghis
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Posted - 2010.05.14 17:07:00 -
[13]
Edited by: ROXGenghis on 14/05/2010 17:08:20
Originally by: Shedden if your saying minmitar are best can you explain how they are best
Someone else already answered why Minmatar are good. Basically they have good ships in almost every category, including sniper battleships and capitals.
As for best, I'm sure you know there is no best. That's why you're getting all these answers that explain how each race is good at different things.
To answer your question about capitals, each race has some good ones, but Amarr might have the best lineup for fleet ops.
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Donny Maurasi
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Posted - 2010.05.14 17:29:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Shedden I have joined a pirate corp and you know pirates dont fly around in 500 man fleets with capitalships etc
If you are pirating, you are likely better off in Minmatar ships TBH. I'm both Gallente & Amarr speced so I use Amarr for gangs and Gallente for when I'm soloing.
The problem with Gallente and being a pie is CCP thinks it's a great idea to have gate guns shoot drones. Being Drones are the DPS for many Gallente ship this makes this close to useless in Pirate gangs. Even if you don't gate camp as a pie you will still end up fighting and going GCC on gates quite often.
With Minmatar you get pretty decent tanks mixed with nice DPS and speed for a combo that often can't be beat.
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Boom Shankar
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Posted - 2010.05.17 02:55:00 -
[15]
Pick your race depending on what style you like. Every race has it's high and low points. I've been flying minmatar from the time they were good and sub BS, but pretty much sucked at anything else.
Amarr: Good Armour tankers Rarely shield tank Great ships for higher SP players Horrible ships for lower SP players Slow Hit hard Tank well Stuck with EM/Therm Damage Great Optimal Range
Caldari Shield Tanker Can Armour Tank sometime, but not very well Capless weapons (missiles) Missiles take time reach their targets Great Ewar They have a few good blaster boats Not a good race for solo work most of the time
Gallente Armour tankers not as good as the Amarr but better than the rest Can be setup with a shield tank in certain situations Great or active tanking Some very good solo ships Ships have a lot of versatility Blasters are high DPS, but with very limited range Faster than Amarr, about the same speed as Caldari but pretty slow compared to Matar Drone or Blaster damage ships
Minmatar Capless guns Fast Great falloff Require Armour, Shield, Projectile and Missile skills (which can be annoying) Usually the weaker tanks and lower DPS Considered great for solo work due to GTFO abilities (unlike Gal ships, once in blaster range it's do or die for them) Can be fixed with duct tape
This is by no means complete and most of the info is from my experience so some chaps will disagree with on a few points but overall it will give you a good idea of what the play styles are. Pick the one you like best.
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GankuVerymuch
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Posted - 2010.05.17 04:47:00 -
[16]
Honestly Since the new player experience was introduced it doesn't matter what race you start with. All races start pretty much equal. And you can train any ship so it really comes down to what ships you want to fly. But my opinion is both are effective. I like amarr for the ammo use and dps. but all I can say about gallente is NEUTDOMI.
Train both as the only thing you'll have to add is the other race guns and ships. Really only about 3 weeks without going all the way to t2 guns.
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Hidden Snake
Caldari Inglorious-Basterds
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Posted - 2010.05.17 08:31:00 -
[17]
train galente on frigates ... invest heavily into support skills. When you are sure u have everything to 4 (and u can fly some t2 ships of gals), crosstrain to amarr and heavier ships of both races. In 6 months you will have very strong character with ability to choose. I went oposite direction from Caldari to matari to gal and finaly to amar. I am flying in lot of diferent tactictal situations (from solo to cap blobs) so versatility is what i need. support skills is what you need - races are just secondary (i can kill in any race ship, but i like my ruppie, drake, ranis or curse).
you are also harder to predict from enemies.
"There is no honor in war" |
Asuka Smith
Gallente StarHunt
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Posted - 2010.05.17 08:47:00 -
[18]
There might not be a best, but there is definitely a "worst". Gallente is worst.
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Arthello
Pilots Of Honour Aeternus.
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Posted - 2010.05.17 16:25:00 -
[19]
I'm Gallente and all I can say is; stay away from Gallente. I fly Gallente, Minmatar and Amarr and the only ship I occasionally fly of Gallente is the Ishtar and maybe the odd Dominix. The range on blasters is just silly bad and the same goes for the tracking and dps of the railguns. Gallente ships are in general ok for armor tankers, it's the guns that are lackluster. Classes in games like these are generally paper-stone-scissor based, but not so for Gallente. They're armour tanked -- which means slow -- and it's guns has an extremely short range. The dps is immense once you can can lay-down-the-law, but any PvP'er worth it's salt is aware of this and will strategize accordingly.
If you're planning on joining a pirate corp most of your combat will probably happen in low-sec so get used to getting shot by gateguns. In that regard I recommend going the Amarr route. Amarr has some awesome battleships, an incredible bc in the Harbinger, one of the best recons in the Curse which is only rivaled by the Falcon/Rook imo, the best armour logistic, the best sniperhac and there's more, but that's at the tip of my tongue as I write. Amarr also use crystals for ammo which can be switched instantly whereas the other factions has to go through the reload process and loose 10 seconds of dps.
If you're looking for quick roams in small null-sec gangs Minmatar is better out of shear speed. If you're looking for pirating in low-sec Amarr all the way in my opinion anyway.
I would happily take a dps nerf for a range buff on blasters. Until then I will just fly Minmatar and Amarr so this isn't a whine in any way. Oh and by the way the reason many people fly Gallente is because of irrational choices in my opinion. When they rolled the character they liked the lore, appearance or something else at least that's my theory as that's how I chose to become Gallente myself.
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Annie Anomie
Gallente Shadows Of The Federation
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Posted - 2010.05.17 17:08:00 -
[20]
Annie flies Amarr and Gallente and there's very few categories where I bother using the Gallente choice tbh especially for "Fleets".
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Zverofaust
Gallente Locus Industries
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Posted - 2010.05.22 22:21:00 -
[21]
Yeah, making Gallente pvp toon was biggest mistake. On paper/in EFT Gallente looks bad ass; they have big DPS and lots of drones. In practice, everything you come up against will either be faster than you, or be shooting you from so far away that by the time you do get in your tiny optimal range you're in half structure -- or often both. Adding to this, Gallente ships are very susceptible to cap warfare, especially when using active armour tanking of which several of their ships use as a "bonus".
All in all there are a handful of gems in the Gallente ship line for pvp -- Taranis, Lachesis, Megathron, Thanatos -- but overall they are definetly the weakest performers.
___________________________________________ The Hero of Kamela The Terror of Tararan The Executioner of Ezzara |
Millie Clode
Amarr Standards and Practices
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Posted - 2010.05.23 17:13:00 -
[22]
T1 frigates Incursus is a great little thing but the Punisher would beat it hands down in a fight.
T2 Frigates Amarr get some sweet ships in this, Sentinel and Crusader particularly. However both Amarr AFs suck IMO. Retri only has one mid (ewww) and the Vengeance is a rocket boat (blech). Besides the Gallente get the Ishkur and Ranis in their frig lineup, so instant win there.
Destroyers Catalyst is mean if you let it get close to you, but it's slow enough that you should have no trouble keeping range. Coercer has the opposite effect, if you land at range of a group of them you are in trouble.
T1 Cruisers Amarr win this one. I personally love the Vexor and the 'rax but they really aren't a patch on the Arbi, Omen or Maller.
T2 Cruisers With the exception of the Curse and Guardian, neither Amarr or Gallente have much here that can touch the minmatar lineup of T2 Cruisers. Ishtar is kinda nice and Zealot is good for long range HAC gangs but neither are really the best in their class.
T1 Battlecruisers Myrmidon, hands down. Multi-rep for soloing or buffered for fleet work, either way works. I'd fly a harbinger or brutix if I had to but I wouldn't be happy about it.
Command ships Absolution is awesome, Damnation is the craziest fleet support ship going. Astarte is just a glorified Brutix with the same crappy blaster range problem. And the Eos is a pile of junk.
Battleships Dominix is fantastic: tough, versatile, great against any size of ship. Blasterthron is good if you know how to fly it right. Hyperion is kinda redundant, though, IMO. On the other hand all three of the Amarr BSes are great for fleet fights.
Capitals Archon tanks like a beast, Revelation has the highest realistic damage output of any Dread. Never been keen on the Thanny, but the Moros is still awesome even after they changed the drone bonus on it. ---------- Who, me? |
Cearain
Caldari The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION
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Posted - 2010.05.25 03:56:00 -
[23]
I think its easy to do an amarr and gallente character. Both use drones. Both don't use shields or missiles much.
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Darthewok
Caldari Naval Reserve
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Posted - 2010.05.25 04:33:00 -
[24]
choose your PVP path:
specialize in solo/small gang -> minmatar as it has the speed to catch things/run away from blobs. the importance of speed in solo/small gang cannot be underestimated.
specialize in big gang/fleet -> amarr as lasers do good damage at medium range (no time to get closer in a big fleet). and amarr BS are armor tankers and have the slot layout for armor remote repair which is the standard for most BS fleets.
jack of all trades generalist -> gallente as they have okay (though not necessarily the best) ships for all situations. and they have some very versatile ships like domi that can perform okay in multiple roles like solo/small gang, big fleet, PVE. probably 2 reasons why gal is popular is they used to be most powerful race in the past till amarr/minnie got buffed and gal can do PVE well too as well as PVP, (jack of all trades)
crazy about ECM or the Drake -> caldari as they are the only ones that have ECM. ECM can turn the tide of battles in solo/small gang, but is less useful in big gang/fleet as ECM ships get primaried fast. also many argue Drake is the best BC. (though i would think Hurricane/Harbinger/Myrm are better in many situations)
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Sir Ahura
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Posted - 2010.05.26 12:03:00 -
[25]
do yourself a favor train amarr or minmatar(massive alpha), gallente are space toasters... im currently cross training amarr and minmatar...
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Sunlord Topui
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Posted - 2010.05.26 16:37:00 -
[26]
As a gallente-pilot all I have to say is go Amarr or Minmatar. Blasters are useless in most situations and drones usually get blown up in solo-pvp. My alt has trained all kinds of Amarr ships and so far they have been awesome. Lasers can actually reach something...
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SCAM CEO
Minmatar S.C.A.M.
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Posted - 2010.05.26 16:58:00 -
[27]
Edited by: SCAM CEO on 26/05/2010 16:59:30 If you are going Minmatar remember, overall they are more skill intensive but in the end probably worth it. Also Gallentte are not as bad as what some would have you believe.
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Kastera
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Posted - 2010.05.26 17:16:00 -
[28]
Yes, hands down Minmatar are the best all-around pvp'ers. Here's why:
-Minmatar hic has the highest ehp and is the most maneuverable of them all. Those who fly hics know that in massive lag fights, not being able to close with someone to get focused point before the grid shifts is annoying.
-The hurricane is THE best solo gank bc and is the most flexible battlecruiser in the game. You can fit it with artillery and sensor boosters, which will quickly lock and instapop most small ships. Or, you can fit it with nano's and 425's and you have yourself one of the most devastating short range gank set ups in the game. Or, you can armor tank it and get a 60k ehp solo gank platform. It's a badass and hurricanes are always the first battlecruiser asked for if dps is needed.
-The rapier/huggin gets a 60% bonus to stasis webs and the standard fit is to have dual webs. For pvp, this is irreplaceable. Cloak up, get close, drop cloak and quickly lock anything that decides to **** around. And you can also pop a covert cyno and **** something up if needed.
-The vagabond is easily the fastest cruiser platform in the game and is devastating in both fleets and solo ganks. While very difficult to fly well, in the hands of an experienced pilot it is nearly unstoppable.
-The muninn is a fantastic sniperHAC platform. Devastating alpha potential at rage of 120k+
-The stabber is a fantastic heavy tackle platform and the ruppy is pretty much a staple in any t1 cruiser gang because of it's damage potential
-The wolf and the jaguar are arguably the best assfrigs in the game. Some people would argue the ishkur, because of it's drone capability, but to me, it's all about speed, dps and fast tackle capability. I personally prefer range on most frigates, so I fit artillery to my jaguar where most fit autos. The ability of these things to quickly close with, tackle until others get there and then move out to range is awesome. These things pack a punch, are wicked fast and durable.
-For shield gangs, four scimitars with ewar drones is the logi loadout of choice... at least for my gangs
I'm not going to comment on Minnie battleships because battleships don't fall in line with what makes Minmatar so strong in sub-bs's. Battleships are a fleet ship and Amarr has the best battleships in the game, hands down.
Minmatar does the best at mixing speed and dps, making them the ideal fast roaming or solo gank ships in the game. They are, however, very skill intensive, but not as intensive as Amarr.
The Amarr battleships, hic and bc's make the best fleet ships because most large fleets are armor tanked. Noone armor tanks better than Amarr.
Hope this helps |
Lithia Tsanov
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Posted - 2010.05.26 20:50:00 -
[29]
If you're new to eve and are looking to PvP, train Minmitar.
Wolf, sabre, cane, vaga, thrasher, rapier, Rifter
All/Any dmg types.
Once you have intercept and orbit technique, get into a sabre.
FNM
What is an OTAL? |
Kastera
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Posted - 2010.05.27 01:54:00 -
[30]
No, don't use all damage types.
If you're gonna go Minmatar, here's the rule
Republic Fleet Fusion against minmatar ships Republic Fleet EMP for everything else
RF Depleted Uranium or Titanium Sabot for range
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