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Vordak Kallager
Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance
351
|
Posted - 2012.08.02 15:16:00 -
[31] - Quote
What would the point be of even having ship-restricted combat PLEXes (always a defining feature of Faction Warfare) if the acceleration gates didn't work like this? It would more or less eliminate their usefulness as a tool to manage bigger numbers and bigger hulls. Sa souvraya niende misain ye. |
Xuixien
Rifterlings Ushra'Khan
80
|
Posted - 2012.08.02 15:23:00 -
[32] - Quote
Vordak Kallager wrote:What would the point be of even having ship-restricted combat PLEXes (always a defining feature of Faction Warfare) if the acceleration gates didn't work like this? It would more or less eliminate their usefulness as a tool to manage bigger numbers and bigger hulls.
B-b-b-b-but my ganks!!!!! Rabble Rabble!! |
Vordak Kallager
Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance
352
|
Posted - 2012.08.02 15:25:00 -
[33] - Quote
Xuixien wrote:Vordak Kallager wrote:What would the point be of even having ship-restricted combat PLEXes (always a defining feature of Faction Warfare) if the acceleration gates didn't work like this? It would more or less eliminate their usefulness as a tool to manage bigger numbers and bigger hulls. B-b-b-b-but my ganks!!!!!
None of the Amarr old-guard (who value combat plexes as the tool they are designed to be) are complaining about this supposed "exploit". It's only Fweddit who are sad they couldn't gank our cruiser/thrasher fleets at 3:1 odds. vOv Sa souvraya niende misain ye. |
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
2724
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Posted - 2012.08.02 15:28:00 -
[34] - Quote
Vordak Kallager wrote:What would the point be of even having ship-restricted combat PLEXes (always a defining feature of Faction Warfare) if the acceleration gates didn't work like this? It would more or less eliminate their usefulness as a tool to manage bigger numbers and bigger hulls.
This is a good and important point.
I'm coming round to the opinion that whether this stuff is a bug or not then it SHOULD work this way because its better for the Faction Warfare GAME to allow people to get their ships into complexes and fight there (by the ship weight restrictions) than it is to allow a one-size fits all fleet to effectively gate camp the in-complexes and get results with an omni fleet.
So perhaps the solution here is for CCP to just say "working as intended" or to make a change that allows any ship whether warp scrambled or not to activate the Acceleration gate and warp into the complex (just as a ship can activate a stargate or transition to wormhole.).
That way the whole issue becomes a non argument and people will need to play Faction Warfare by putting the appropriate ship classes into the appropriate complexes (even if this means splitting a fleet up) and fighting multiple smaller battles.
(which was I think the point of the original design.)
All in all this thread does make Fweddit look exceedingly petty. The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedomInferno Wardecs - Shoot Goons for FREE $300,000 dollars :(-á |
Rezig Huruta
Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance
42
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Posted - 2012.08.02 15:38:00 -
[35] - Quote
Why didn't some of your guys just reship down and come get us? You could have camped the star gates with big ships to allow your smaller ships to get through into system, then drop onto the accel gate with your BCs and cruisers, etc to escort the smaller ships that then go into the plex.
You had 60 players active in Huola. Surely you could have managed to break 15-20 off into dessies and come get us. I do not understand why you decided to complain about an old mechanic instead.
TL;DR version: Get dessies. Escort dessies to accel gate (if you need to camp something) Jump dessies in and bounce us out |
Zen Guerrilla
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
14
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Posted - 2012.08.02 15:41:00 -
[36] - Quote
Pinky Feldman wrote:Minmatar dislike a game mechanic = Hans has fixed immediately Amarr dislike a game mechanic = Must be complaining
Feels so good. pew pew |
Xuixien
Rifterlings Ushra'Khan
80
|
Posted - 2012.08.02 16:01:00 -
[37] - Quote
Jade Constantine wrote:Vordak Kallager wrote:What would the point be of even having ship-restricted combat PLEXes (always a defining feature of Faction Warfare) if the acceleration gates didn't work like this? It would more or less eliminate their usefulness as a tool to manage bigger numbers and bigger hulls. This is a good and important point. I'm coming round to the opinion that whether this stuff is a bug or not then it SHOULD work this way because its better for the Faction Warfare GAME to allow people to get their ships into complexes and fight there (by the ship weight restrictions) than it is to allow a one-size fits all fleet to effectively gate camp the in-complexes and get results with an omni fleet. So perhaps the solution here is for CCP to just say "working as intended" or to make a change that allows any ship whether warp scrambled or not to activate the Acceleration gate and warp into the complex (just as a ship can activate a stargate or transition to wormhole.). That way the whole issue becomes a non argument and people will need to play Faction Warfare by putting the appropriate ship classes into the appropriate complexes (even if this means splitting a fleet up) and fighting multiple smaller battles. (which was I think the point of the original design.) All in all this thread does make Fweddit look exceedingly petty.
Very petty.
Rabble Rabble!! |
Wenron
Rifterlings Ushra'Khan
39
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Posted - 2012.08.02 16:06:00 -
[38] - Quote
This one time, I missed a point on a ship I could totally kill.
It made me sad. |
Schalac
Apocalypse Reign
66
|
Posted - 2012.08.02 16:38:00 -
[39] - Quote
I feel this should be a "working as intended" mechanic. A-gates, S-gates and WH should all cancel out warp scrams. |
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
349
|
Posted - 2012.08.02 16:38:00 -
[40] - Quote
Pinky Feldman wrote:If you want an exercise in hypocrisy, let me tell you about how Hans told me he can't control Susan or his own militia in response to Susan's troll post and in the same breath told me I should do my best to control my militia and keep their rhetoric focused and constructive, if I care about the future of FW. That's not a troll post. THIS is a troll post. |
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Krystalline Meth
Konflict Blockade Logistics
7
|
Posted - 2012.08.02 16:41:00 -
[41] - Quote
Two step wrote:My personal opinion is that this seems like a bug, and it should be fixed. I'll leave the exploit determination to CCP.
Like when your corp exploited wormholes for infinite tracking boosts lol CSM talking about exploits! |
Sokor Loro
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
55
|
Posted - 2012.08.02 16:42:00 -
[42] - Quote
Xuixien wrote:My question is who doesn't spam "warp" or "jump"?
Are you trying to tell me that Mr. Durrr is an honourable spacediety and he only ever ever presses the button more than once?
The thing is, this was done multiple times, in-front of our faces. It was completely intentional, they knew exactly what would happen and knew that their fleet could not be caught. Even in this thread, people admit to knowing about it previously. Claiming ignorance is ridiculous.
It is a bug, and that bug was being used to their advantage.
Ultimately, this isn't even about that particular plex, it isn't about how we didn't ship down or you didn't ship up or how we blobbed you. It isn't about taking the system, it isn't about the warzone, kills, or losses. It wasn't the fact that a random minmatar fleet got away from us, and we couldn't do **** about it. It's the fact that it was a CSM member who was doing it. Comparing Durr to Hans is ridiculous in this case. CSM members are held to far higher standards, and are expected to be an example. And Hans decides to be an example by knowingly using a bug to his advantage. End of story. It's at the very worst, an exploit, and at best, a questionable action.
Talks of bans or his removal from the CSM are ridiculous and overblown. But this should be leaving a bad taste in everyone's mouths. Instead you're laughing about it and mocking people who are expressing concern. |
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
350
|
Posted - 2012.08.02 16:51:00 -
[43] - Quote
Sokor Loro wrote:Ultimately, this isn't even about that particular plex, it isn't about how we didn't ship down or you didn't ship up or how we blobbed you. It isn't about taking the system, it isn't about the warzone, kills, or losses. It wasn't the fact that a random minmatar fleet got away from us, and we couldn't do **** about it. It's the fact that it was a CSM member who was doing it. Comparing Durr to Hans is ridiculous in this case. CSM members are held to far higher standards, and are expected to be an example. And Hans decides to be an example by knowingly using a bug to his advantage. End of story. It's at the very worst, an exploit, and at best, a questionable action.
Talks of bans or his removal from the CSM are ridiculous and overblown. But this should be leaving a bad taste in everyone's mouths. Instead you're laughing about it and mocking people who are expressing concern. And here I thought you were upset because your alliance leader Mittani got booted from the CSM.... Who knew you'd be uspet at a CSM member for using a game mechanic to do something in game. Who knew? |
Schalac
Apocalypse Reign
66
|
Posted - 2012.08.02 16:53:00 -
[44] - Quote
Sokor Loro wrote:Xuixien wrote:My question is who doesn't spam "warp" or "jump"?
Are you trying to tell me that Mr. Durrr is an honourable spacediety and he only ever ever presses the button more than once? The thing is, this was done multiple times, in-front of our faces. It was completely intentional, they knew exactly what would happen and knew that their fleet could not be caught. Even in this thread, people admit to knowing about it previously. Claiming ignorance is ridiculous. It is a bug, and that bug was being used to their advantage. Ultimately, this isn't even about that particular plex, it isn't about how we didn't ship down or you didn't ship up or how we blobbed you. It isn't about taking the system, it isn't about the warzone, kills, or losses. It wasn't the fact that a random minmatar fleet got away from us, and we couldn't do **** about it. It's the fact that it was a CSM member who was doing it. Comparing Durr to Hans is ridiculous in this case. CSM members are held to far higher standards, and are expected to be an example. And Hans decides to be an example by knowingly using a bug to his advantage. End of story. It's at the very worst, an exploit, and at best, a questionable action. Talks of bans or his removal from the CSM are ridiculous and overblown. But this should be leaving a bad taste in everyone's mouths. Instead you're laughing about it and mocking people who are expressing concern. You know what would of stopped them? Entering the plex and setting up your camp at the warp in. |
Xuixien
Rifterlings Ushra'Khan
82
|
Posted - 2012.08.02 16:55:00 -
[45] - Quote
Sokor Loro wrote:Xuixien wrote:My question is who doesn't spam "warp" or "jump"?
Are you trying to tell me that Mr. Durrr is an honourable spacediety and he only ever ever presses the button more than once? The thing is, this was done multiple times, in-front of our faces. It was completely intentional, they knew exactly what would happen and knew that their fleet could not be caught. Even in this thread, people admit to knowing about it previously. Claiming ignorance is ridiculous. It is a bug, and that bug was being used to their advantage. Ultimately, this isn't even about that particular plex, it isn't about how we didn't ship down or you didn't ship up or how we blobbed you. It isn't about taking the system, it isn't about the warzone, kills, or losses. It wasn't the fact that a random minmatar fleet got away from us, and we couldn't do **** about it. It's the fact that it was a CSM member who was doing it. Comparing Durr to Hans is ridiculous in this case. CSM members are held to far higher standards, and are expected to be an example. And Hans decides to be an example by knowingly using a bug to his advantage. End of story. It's at the very worst, an exploit, and at best, a questionable action. Talks of bans or his removal from the CSM are ridiculous and overblown. But this should be leaving a bad taste in everyone's mouths. Instead you're laughing about it and mocking people who are expressing concern.
Nice nice except it's a legal game mechanic (that people have used for years) and will remain so until CCP rules otherwise.
Saying that a CSM shouldn't use game mechanics to his advantage (ie, "edge play") simply because he's a CSM is an untenable argument. If anything, it's the CSM's job to discover these exploits and bring them to the attention of the Devs - often times this requires an abuse of said mechanics. That said, I would hardly consider dodging your failcamp 3 times in a row an "abuse of mechanics". I'm sorry you guys were embarrassed but really, there's no need to call foul and bring his CSM status into it. I know, I know, CFC/HBC are all about "the propaganda war" and "character assassination" and all that metagame stuff, so I don't blame you too much for giving it a try.
At the end of the day, however, I fail to see how this is "game breaking". People will still die outside of plexes and get ganked. If you really want the kills just move the camp into the plex.
Sorry lil bro. :( Rabble Rabble!! |
Zeric Sarain
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
1
|
Posted - 2012.08.02 17:02:00 -
[46] - Quote
Vordak Kallager wrote: None of the Amarr old-guard (who value combat plexes as the tool they are designed to be) are complaining about this supposed "exploit". It's only Fweddit who are sad they couldn't gank our cruiser/thrasher fleets at 3:1 odds. vOv
It's not all of Fweddit, either. Some of us know better. |
Xuixien
Rifterlings Ushra'Khan
83
|
Posted - 2012.08.02 17:09:00 -
[47] - Quote
Zeric Sarain wrote:Vordak Kallager wrote: None of the Amarr old-guard (who value combat plexes as the tool they are designed to be) are complaining about this supposed "exploit". It's only Fweddit who are sad they couldn't gank our cruiser/thrasher fleets at 3:1 odds. vOv
It's not all of Fweddit, either. Some of us know better.
Thank you for that. Rabble Rabble!! |
Sokor Loro
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
55
|
Posted - 2012.08.02 17:10:00 -
[48] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:And here I thought you were upset because your alliance leader Mittani got booted from the CSM.... Who knew you'd be uspet at a CSM member for using a game mechanic to do something in game. Who knew?
Mocking me for someone who isn't/wasn't my alliance leader getting removed from the CSM (an action I actually agreed with). Quite a reputable to my argument! |
Xuixien
Rifterlings Ushra'Khan
83
|
Posted - 2012.08.02 17:12:00 -
[49] - Quote
That's quite a reputable you got there. Rabble Rabble!! |
Sokor Loro
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
55
|
Posted - 2012.08.02 17:15:00 -
[50] - Quote
Xuixien wrote:That's quite a reputable you got there.
Thanks for pointing it out to me! I'm glad you are concerning yourself with spelling instead of content.
edit: lawl I misspelled it again on the second edit :P |
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Xuixien
Rifterlings Ushra'Khan
83
|
Posted - 2012.08.02 17:19:00 -
[51] - Quote
Sokor Loro wrote:Xuixien wrote:That's quite a reputable you got there. Thanks for pointing it out to me! I'm glad you are concerning yourself with spelling instead of content. edit: lawl I misspelled it again on the second edit :P
I'm just killing time while I wait for you to address the content of my earlier post, mate. Rabble Rabble!! |
Wenron
Rifterlings Ushra'Khan
41
|
Posted - 2012.08.02 17:22:00 -
[52] - Quote
Sokor Loro wrote:Xuixien wrote:My question is who doesn't spam "warp" or "jump"?
Are you trying to tell me that Mr. Durrr is an honourable spacediety and he only ever ever presses the button more than once? The thing is, this was done multiple times, in-front of our faces. It was completely intentional, they knew exactly what would happen and knew that their fleet could not be caught. Even in this thread, people admit to knowing about it previously. Claiming ignorance is ridiculous. It is a bug, and that bug was being used to their advantage. Ultimately, this isn't even about that particular plex, it isn't about how we didn't ship down or you didn't ship up or how we blobbed you. It isn't about taking the system, it isn't about the warzone, kills, or losses. It wasn't the fact that a random minmatar fleet got away from us, and we couldn't do **** about it. It's the fact that it was a CSM member who was doing it. Comparing Durr to Hans is ridiculous in this case. CSM members are held to far higher standards, and are expected to be an example. And Hans decides to be an example by knowingly using a bug to his advantage. End of story. It's at the very worst, an exploit, and at best, a questionable action. Talks of bans or his removal from the CSM are ridiculous and overblown. But this should be leaving a bad taste in everyone's mouths. Instead you're laughing about it and mocking people who are expressing concern.
If it is a bug that affects everyone, is it really a problem at all? Let CCP provide the answer for that one. Until such time, I'm filing this away as something that is handy to know. |
Rezig Huruta
Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance
44
|
Posted - 2012.08.02 17:38:00 -
[53] - Quote
Sokor Loro wrote:Xuixien wrote:My question is who doesn't spam "warp" or "jump"?
Are you trying to tell me that Mr. Durrr is an honourable spacediety and he only ever ever presses the button more than once? The thing is, this was done multiple times, in-front of our faces. It was completely intentional, they knew exactly what would happen and knew that their fleet could not be caught. Even in this thread, people admit to knowing about it previously. Claiming ignorance is ridiculous. It is a bug, and that bug was being used to their advantage. Ultimately, this isn't even about that particular plex, it isn't about how we didn't ship down or you didn't ship up or how we blobbed you. It isn't about taking the system, it isn't about the warzone, kills, or losses. It wasn't the fact that a random minmatar fleet got away from us, and we couldn't do **** about it. It's the fact that it was a CSM member who was doing it. Comparing Durr to Hans is ridiculous in this case. CSM members are held to far higher standards, and are expected to be an example. And Hans decides to be an example by knowingly using a bug to his advantage. End of story. It's at the very worst, an exploit, and at best, a questionable action. Talks of bans or his removal from the CSM are ridiculous and overblown. But this should be leaving a bad taste in everyone's mouths. Instead you're laughing about it and mocking people who are expressing concern.
I want to make it completely clear what your point is, so does this sum it up:
You believe landing on the acceleration gate and warping is an exploit.
Many people do not agree with you - various reasons were given, some good, some bad. But, I think the most vital of them, is that it helps enforce the ship hull restrictions INSIDE the plex.
Whether that is intended or not is up to CCP to determine. As it stands, you now know without a doubt that you must change tactics to match those of your enemy.
Good luck! :)
|
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
350
|
Posted - 2012.08.02 17:45:00 -
[54] - Quote
Sokor Loro wrote:Mocking me for someone who isn't/wasn't my alliance leader getting removed from the CSM (an action I actually agreed with). Quite a rebuttal(heh, fixed :P) to my argument!
No I was mocking you for someone who really is your alliance leader. Instead of wasting 10 pages about how "Fweddit really isn't a pet of Goonswarm", "we're different, really!" lies and all that stuff, let's just put that issue aside.
However, I was also mocking you for being upset at somebody playing the game legally - as if that was the real reason you are "upset". Feel free to respond this part all you want. |
Vordak Kallager
Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance
353
|
Posted - 2012.08.02 17:51:00 -
[55] - Quote
Zeric Sarain wrote:Vordak Kallager wrote: None of the Amarr old-guard (who value combat plexes as the tool they are designed to be) are complaining about this supposed "exploit". It's only Fweddit who are sad they couldn't gank our cruiser/thrasher fleets at 3:1 odds. vOv
It's not all of Fweddit, either. Some of us know better.
You are now among one of the Fwedditors that I can admire and respect. Sa souvraya niende misain ye. |
Poetic Stanziel
Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance
1059
|
Posted - 2012.08.02 17:52:00 -
[56] - Quote
Xuixien wrote:Are you trying to tell me that Mr. Durrr is an honourable spacediety and he only ever ever presses the button more than once? He only counts to two-Mississipi before pressing the activate button. And if he finds out that any of his Fweddit have not done the same, he forces them to mine in highsec for a week.
The STAIN Travel Bookmark Collection - 451 Bookmarks |
Sokor Loro
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
55
|
Posted - 2012.08.02 18:04:00 -
[57] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:No I was mocking you for someone who really is your alliance leader. Instead of wasting 10 pages about how "Fweddit really isn't a pet of Goonswarm", "we're different, really!" lies and all that stuff, let's just put that issue aside.
Oh. You're just trolling.
On topic, I'll admit I didn't know this was a, "been happening for years" thing. I've dabbled with this character and a few others in FW for a few months now, but have only been playing for a year or so. Last night was the first time that it was ridiculously apparent something was wrong. In all the gates I've been on or escalations I've done I haven't seen a specific example of it happening. Although It's likely I've seen it before and just thought I didn't get a point on fast enough.
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Callous Jade
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
23
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Posted - 2012.08.02 18:08:00 -
[58] - Quote
Vordak Kallager wrote:What would the point be of even having ship-restricted combat PLEXes (always a defining feature of Faction Warfare) if the acceleration gates didn't work like this? It would more or less eliminate their usefulness as a tool to manage bigger numbers and bigger hulls.
So why not just do away with the acceleration gates all together and make it impossible for an over-sized ship to warp to those plexes? Seriously, I find it hard to believe that you are stupid enough to believe the crap that comes out of your own mouth sometimes, Vordak. |
Poetic Stanziel
Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance
1060
|
Posted - 2012.08.02 18:23:00 -
[59] - Quote
For crying out loud. This is not a bug. It's simply a side-effect of session change mechanics.
Once a person begins a session change, not even the Flying Spaghetti Monster can break that person out of it. The person who initiated the session change cannot break out of it. Nothing external can break that person out of it.
This is how jumpgates, wormholes and acceleration gates work.
It's not like CCP hasn't known about this for years. It's their mechanic. If they haven't deemed it fix it, then it's not a bug and it certainly isn't an exploit.
If DurrDurrDurr didn't know about this mechanic (which I still doubt), it doesn't suddenly make it a bug. Is everything he doesn't know about this game a bug or an exploit?
Every person in FW knows about this mechanic. FCs call out to spam the activate button on any warp-in to an accel gate when it is known that enemies are camping it. I do not believe for a second that this only happens on the Minmatar side. It happens the same with every faction. If enemies are camping an accel gate, FCs in every faction are going to call out over comms to spam the activate button. This pushes everyone into a session change before the enemy can react.
I doubt CCP will do anything about this at all. Session change mechanics are a deep piece of code, and to make changes here would likely require a tremendous amount of work (they can weigh in on this themselves, but I cannot imagine it is not true, or else they would have changed this years ago.)
As for Hans. He doesn't FC. He is a player like any other player. He uses the same mechanics as the rest of us. The manner in which jumpgates, wormholes and acceleration gates work is just another mechanic that players can use and should use.
This whole kerfuffle is an exceptionally disingenuous piece of grandstanding and propaganda by DurrDurrDurr. I realize he loves his meta-game and believes himself to be a master of it ... but this stink he's trying to raise over a non-issue ... it is really beneath him. The STAIN Travel Bookmark Collection - 451 Bookmarks |
Poetic Stanziel
Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance
1060
|
Posted - 2012.08.02 18:24:00 -
[60] - Quote
Oops. The STAIN Travel Bookmark Collection - 451 Bookmarks |
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