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Salpad
Carebears with Attitude
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Posted - 2010.10.18 19:00:00 -
[1]
Lots of talk over the years has suggested to me that one way to make Assault Ships playable (=more powerful) was to fix rockets.
Why is that? My inclination would be to fit missiles on my Hawk, not rockets. Even with a x1.96 range multiplier for skillz (or 2.25 if you're 'ardcore), rockets are still very short range.
What am I overlooking?
(PS. Yes I know about the 18th of October dev blog, and the changes to rockets and to the Hawk.)
-- Salpad C.E.O., Carebears with Attitude |
Zarnak Wulf
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Posted - 2010.10.18 19:07:00 -
[2]
The long answer is I don't think they're done with AF - just rockets. The rocket changes DO make the vengeance, hawk, and even the crow a lot better. Hopefully some other changes to the AF class come down the pipe to finish the job there.
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Salpad
Carebears with Attitude
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Posted - 2010.10.18 19:14:00 -
[3]
But why fit a Hawk with rocket launchers either way? I can't see any reason to use anything other than Standard Missiles, with the current or the post-expansion Hawk. What am I overlooking? -- Salpad C.E.O., Carebears with Attitude |
Meeko Atari
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Posted - 2010.10.18 19:18:00 -
[4]
Think of the difference between a HAM drake and a HM drake...just on a smaller scale.
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Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
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Posted - 2010.10.18 19:21:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Salpad What am I overlooking?
1) Fitting standard launchers is a real pain in the ass.
2) Standard missiles, unless fired from assault launchers, are kinda meh for DPS (but can indeed be nice on assault launchers).
3) Fitting standard launchers can be a real *****.
4) Standards operate at rather long ranges compared to typical frigate engagement ranges and suffer a relatively similar problem to their other guided brethren wrt flight time, locking your target down, etc.
5) Something about fitting? I mean, MWD and 4 standard launchers does leave you 5.1 power to work with on a Hawk, right? Throw in a pair of BCUs and you have 3.1.... And that's all assuming you use a named MWD.
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Sam Bowein
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2010.10.19 07:34:00 -
[6]
assault frigates should be able to fit cruiser size weaponsą that would be cool and usefulą assault should mean firepower damnit !
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Mercie Orion
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Posted - 2010.10.19 11:58:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Sam Bowein assault frigates should be able to fit cruiser size weaponsą that would be cool and usefulą assault should mean firepower damnit !
No.
AF's should be able to do cruiser sized damage with frig sized weapons!
Also to the OP, rockets are higher dps on paper then standard missiles. And for almost all frig hulls, there isn't enough powergrid / cpu for the standard sized ASSAULT launchers. So your options are rockets or standard launchers with light missiles. Which should compare somewhat to other weapon types, such as small autocannons compared to arty cannons. You sacrifice range, since you are in a frig you can go in close and fast, so you give up your weapon range for more overall damage. Same with rockets/standards you have much less range but you get more dps (at least on paper) The problem is.... it's ONLY on paper.
Unlike other types of weapons, the damage on paper being higher isn't the case currently, at least on other frig hulls. The rockets being smaller, faster traveling but shorter flight time weapon platform, should hit smaller faster targets for a closer % of full damage, then a slower standard missile. Which is why they are fixing rockets, the explosion velocity just doesn't make sense on rockets and their damage to small targets is laughable right now, after the fix however, rockets will be a scary foe for frig hulls. Watchout for the Vengeance after this fix as well as the hawk and crow. They will all be much more viable against other frigs after the fix.
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Diesel47
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Posted - 2010.10.19 12:05:00 -
[8]
Where can I see this article about the rocket buff?
I couldn't find it in the devblog?
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Mona X
Caldari C0VEN
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Posted - 2010.10.19 13:29:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Salpad But why fit a Hawk with rocket launchers either way? I can't see any reason to use anything other than Standard Missiles, with the current or the post-expansion Hawk. What am I overlooking?
Exactly what you wrote. Rockets are so broken, that now there is no reason to fit them. When CCP (hopefully) fix them, they should give you better damage on shorter range than standards.
Join Eve-Online, meet interesting people, grief them. |
Meeko Atari
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Posted - 2010.10.19 15:17:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Diesel47 Where can I see this article about the rocket buff?
I couldn't find it in the devblog?
I don't know where the blog is but, you can try out the "new" rockets on the test server right now!
They are not bad at all, still need some tweaking but not a bad start!
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Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
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Posted - 2010.10.19 15:31:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Mercie Orion Also to the OP, rockets are higher dps on paper then standard missiles. And for almost all frig hulls, there isn't enough powergrid / cpu for the standard sized ASSAULT launchers. So your options are rockets or standard launchers with light missiles. Which should compare somewhat to other weapon types, such as small autocannons compared to arty cannons. You sacrifice range, since you are in a frig you can go in close and fast, so you give up your weapon range for more overall damage. Same with rockets/standards you have much less range but you get more dps (at least on paper)
Erm. My fitting quotes above were for standard launchers. Not assault launchers. The comparison is false, unfortunately.
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Mercie Orion
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Posted - 2010.10.19 18:06:00 -
[12]
The comparison is not false, I was trying to answer the question "why rockets?".... well because rockets out dps Standard Launchers with light missiles, and you can't fit Assault launchers with light missiles. Or at least on paper they out dps them. The reason rockets are so broken right now is the explosion velocity on the rockets is pitiful, which is one of the changes they are making to them. For example, in my Hookbill I can hit a cruiser for about 150 damage per volley (this is in combat so taking resists into account also effects the numbers a little) but then those same rockets will only hit a frig for about 56-60, and that's on a webbed frig.
The comparison is that rockets are the smallest, fastest firing, and traveling type of missile weapon in the lineup, while being the shortest range weapon in the "missiles" lineup. As such, they SHOULD hit frig sized hulls for near full damage, and anything above a frig they should hit for full damage, WITHOUT having to double web everything ot target paint it. a web or target painter should take the base damage and further increase it such as a gyrostabalizer does for projectile weapons.
Also not sure where the dev blog is but I believe the rockets are on SiSi using the new numbers. I'm pretty sure they increased the base damage, gave the rocket launchers a slightly longer cycle, which they said will give a 14% overall increase, then they increased the explosion velocity from around 85 up to something like 160 or so?
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