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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
NoTwo Niang
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Posted - 2011.02.24 03:28:00 -
[1]
http://www.evenews24.com/2011/02/23/promote-killboard-synergy-like-a-boss-undock-a-74-2-bil-pimp-mobile/
even in pvp why?
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Cire XIII
Caldari Righteous-Indignation
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Posted - 2011.02.24 03:33:00 -
[2]
It's because when it comes to ganking targets before Concord arrives alpha, initial volley, is king. Artillery have the best alpha. 8 turret slots with artillery and you're golden.
Originally by: CCP Oveur The client handles no logic, it is simply a dumb terminal.
Our problems are server-side.
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Koragoni SkyKnight
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Posted - 2011.02.24 03:38:00 -
[3]
In cases like the Punisher, Maller, and Prophecy... it makes a world of sense as well.
The ships get a bonus to cap use on the guns, and a tanking bonus. In a way swapping over to projectile turrets is maximizing the first bonus. Which leaves the ship free to concentrate its cap on tank. The buffer gankage / bait potential of these ships is well known.
As for ganking, well you can't beat artillery. The sheer volume of damage that happens the instant you press f1 is invaluable. There is a reason a certain null sec PvP group is rampaging around with hordes of Maelstroms. When you can insta-pop a carrier... why not?
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Apollo Gabriel
Brotherhood Of Fallen Angels Etherium Cartel
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Posted - 2011.02.24 04:27:00 -
[4]
zero to no cap and the ships don't give a bonus, why use lasers? You get the same/better range, save your cap, do a little less damage and win!
***** Signature may appear without warning! ***** Please do not feed the trolls, it builds dependency.
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Batolemaeus
Caldari Free-Space-Ranger Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2011.02.24 04:42:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Apollo Gabriel do more damage and win!
Fix'd.
1400mm abaddons are awesome btw.
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Apollo Gabriel
Brotherhood Of Fallen Angels Etherium Cartel
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Posted - 2011.02.24 05:12:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Batolemaeus
Originally by: Apollo Gabriel do more damage and win!
Fix'd.
1400mm abaddons are awesome btw.
lol ... maybe, I haven't checked really on those hulls, I just know I prefer the flexibility of the proj.
***** Signature may appear without warning! ***** Please do not feed the trolls, it builds dependency.
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Mecinia Lua
Galactic Express Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2011.02.24 07:10:00 -
[7]
Higher alpha. In lag fights, alpha is more important than dps. Since most fights in 0.0 introduce a huge amount of lag most choose to run with alpha fleets. In 20 second delays the Alpha will lose only half the cycles that a DPS setup would lose.
Thoughts expressed are mine and mine alone. They do not necessarily reflect my alliances thoughts.
[orange]Your signature is to |
Shoopa Whoopa
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Posted - 2011.02.24 07:19:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Shoopa Whoopa on 24/02/2011 07:20:55 As has been stated: Rather low fitting costs (always helps), no cap cost (helps most of the time, especially when neuted/ing, active tanking or MWDing), decent damage (well, you have to pay something, after all). They pretty much outperform all guns in terms of economy.
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knobber Jobbler
Executive Intervention Controlled Chaos
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Posted - 2011.02.24 09:45:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Mecinia Lua Higher alpha. In lag fights, alpha is more important than dps. Since most fights in 0.0 introduce a huge amount of lag most choose to run with alpha fleets. In 20 second delays the Alpha will lose only half the cycles that a DPS setup would lose.
its not really about lag as it applies just as well in non laggy situations. it has benefits in lag though as you point out.
the alpha strike is about putting so much hurt on a single target that no matter how many logistics ships the enemy has they have no chance to rep the alpha hit ship.
even if logistics do get reps in the 2nd alpha will either no have shield to knock down or the targets amour would be low due to the first strike depending on whether the fleet is armour or shield tanked.
also in the case of the abaddon, it costs no cap to use projectiles so has benefits when pos bashing or prolonged engagements.
its alpha is also near 10000 at near 100km with good skills so a fleet of those will happily chew through other fleets even with allot of logistics support. it also makes it easier to take out logistics ships which will be afterburning round there anchor ship or heavily ranked command ships.
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Airu Naari
The Noxious
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Posted - 2011.02.24 09:49:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Airu Naari on 24/02/2011 09:49:35 myrmidon with autocannons is a good example. you don't need cap to shoot your guns if neuted, also you have your drones, so it's a great source of damage even against multiple targets more efficient. leaves you with cap to run your jamming modules or mwd if necessary. not to mention the tracking on ACs.. lovely!
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gfldex
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Posted - 2011.02.24 09:53:00 -
[11]
Originally by: NoTwo Niang why?
belief
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Natasja Podinski
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Posted - 2011.02.24 10:11:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Cire XIII It's because when it comes to ganking targets before Concord arrives alpha, initial volley, is king. Artillery have the best alpha. 8 turret slots with artillery and you're golden.
noob! **** was done BEFORE FILTHY CAREBEAR HULKAGEDDON ***** ACTIVITIES!!!11
ccp needs to rework blasterrange Please make your signature more EVE Related.StevieSG |
Airu Naari
The Noxious
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Posted - 2011.02.24 10:13:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Natasja Podinski
Originally by: Cire XIII It's because when it comes to ganking targets before Concord arrives alpha, initial volley, is king. Artillery have the best alpha. 8 turret slots with artillery and you're golden.
noob! **** was done BEFORE FILTHY CAREBEAR HULKAGEDDON ***** ACTIVITIES!!!11
ccp needs to rework blasterrange
Who said anything about hulkageddon? CIRE XIII was simply referring to the kill from the evenews website. Which was in highsec... And yes, I agree, projectiles in general were used on other than minmatar ships a long time ago, as well as lasers on non-amarr ships. I've seen it :D
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Sakkar Arenith
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Posted - 2011.02.24 10:17:00 -
[14]
lets see:
Projectiles:
Lowest fitting needs-----> check! Best Tracking-----> check! No cap needs-----> check! All Damage Types-----> check! High non-bonus dps-----> check!
hmm, indeed, why do people fit them on all ships races...hmm...
Now why dont people fit lasers and hybrids on minmatar/gallente ships again?
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Iceni
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Posted - 2011.02.24 10:31:00 -
[15]
Eeeek! Someone mentioned the Hulkageddon word. Now this thread will be locked and posters directed to that awful other thread...
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Omara Otawan
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Posted - 2011.02.24 10:40:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Omara Otawan on 24/02/2011 10:41:43
Originally by: Sakkar Arenith
Now why dont people fit lasers and hybrids on minmatar/gallente ships again?
People do fit lasers on gallente ships, pulse laser myrm for example.
You dont see lasers/hybrids much on minmatar hulls as they dont have the fittings to mount them, they dont have the cap to fire them, or hulls without damage/RoF bonuses to their own racial weapons that are useful at all in combat.
In theory pulses would make a lot of sense for ships like the Stabber, but it doesnt work out due to the constraints mentioned above.
But even then, laser vigil
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Long John Silver
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Posted - 2011.02.24 10:47:00 -
[17]
Ha ha ha... Bang > fizz. Amarrians just have to admit that Minmatar technology is much better than their own.
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Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.02.24 10:55:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Sakkar Arenith lets see:
Projectiles:
Lowest fitting needs-----> check! Best Tracking-----> check! No cap needs-----> check! All Damage Types-----> check! High non-bonus dps-----> check!
hmm, indeed, why do people fit them on all ships races...hmm...
Now why dont people fit lasers and hybrids on minmatar/gallente ships again?
ACs do not have really impressive damage or range, if you just look at raw stats minus cap use than lasers are better in almost any case, only thing ACs got for them on unbonused ship is no cap cost and low grid cost.
However we were talking here mainly about artillery, so pretty much highest fitting needs, worst tracking and not really impressive DPS. But it has enormous alpha, and that is the reason they are used.
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Ocih
Amarr The Program Controlled Chaos
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Posted - 2011.02.24 11:01:00 -
[19]
Being a dedicated Amarrian tech pilot it has proven to be a mixed combo of EvE aspects.
A true Amarrian ship can't MWD or AB through a battle and fire her weapons for very long. Not nearly long enough to make kills. I can remember battles where Role Play was a factor and Amarrian fleets played thier role, creating brick squads and securing position. Doing what Amarr were supposed to do. Stand and fight. Matar fleets ****d us. Faster, better tracking, resist packs aimed at our weapons. The most we could do was repell the enemy. Killing them wasn't in our ships abilities. We didnt have Alpha stike as was pointed out.
Short answer, gank beats tank.
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Cobalt
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Posted - 2011.02.24 11:53:00 -
[20]
Hybrid rails are by far the most LOL fun you can have at a PvP gate camp when you can snipe from over 150km away in an eagle.
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Trin Javidan
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Posted - 2011.02.24 11:58:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Cobalt Hybrid rails are by far the most LOL fun you can have at a PvP gate camp when you can snipe from over 150km away in an eagle.
hehe funny u mention the only ship ingame that can use the rails properly, and thats for sniping purposes xxl long range only, mid range is muninn king
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CCP StevieSG
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Posted - 2011.02.24 12:30:00 -
[22]
Moved to Ship discussion from EVE General.
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4C 4F 5645
Rogue Drone Systems
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Posted - 2011.02.24 12:51:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Trin Javidan
Originally by: Cobalt Hybrid rails are by far the most LOL fun you can have at a PvP gate camp when you can snipe from over 150km away in an eagle.
hehe funny u mention the only ship ingame that can use the rails properly, and thats for sniping purposes xxl long range only, mid range is muninn king
Ok fine i'll use a Rokh to snipe from 250km away instead ? Is that broken too ? Rails have their niche.
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Gentle Glide
the united Negative Ten.
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Posted - 2011.02.24 15:27:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Trin Javidan
Originally by: Cobalt Hybrid rails are by far the most LOL fun you can have at a PvP gate camp when you can snipe from over 150km away in an eagle.
hehe funny u mention the only ship ingame that can use the rails properly, and thats for sniping purposes xxl long range only, mid range is muninn king
Nah man your right. Or i can just put them on my Megathron and sit right on top of a gate t2 rails and AM giving me an optimal of 20km. Get creative!
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Baneken
Gallente The New Knighthood
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Posted - 2011.02.24 16:29:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Baneken on 24/02/2011 16:29:09
Originally by: 4C 4F 5645
Originally by: Trin Javidan
Originally by: Cobalt Hybrid rails are by far the most LOL fun you can have at a PvP gate camp when you can snipe from over 150km away in an eagle.
hehe funny u mention the only ship ingame that can use the rails properly, and thats for sniping purposes xxl long range only, mid range is muninn king
Ok fine i'll use a Rokh to snipe from 250km away instead ? Is that broken too ? Rails have their niche.
Sure until the first ship in your fleet pops and enemy fleet jumps right on your face or they arse to probe your spot and warp to you... Also Myrm uses AC's because it a) can field a wicked active tank (800dps or so) b) it has no gun bonuses anyway so using AC's makes most sence.
http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html |
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
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Posted - 2011.02.24 16:49:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Sakkar Arenith lets see:
Projectiles:
Lowest fitting needs-----> check! Best Tracking-----> check! No cap needs-----> check! All Damage Types-----> check! High non-bonus dps-----> check!
hmm, indeed, why do people fit them on all ships races...hmm...
Now why dont people fit lasers and hybrids on minmatar/gallente ships again?
Gah. This made my head hurt. You do know that projectiles come in two flavors -- just like all other weapon systems -- right?
ACs have all of what you listed going for them. Artillery, not so much.
All weapon systems have advantages. On a hull without a damage or RoF bonus it's not hard to come up with scenarios where off-race weapons are better. When it comes to alpha strikes, it's not hard at all to justify artillery even on hulls with bonuses to other weapons.
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Swynet
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Posted - 2011.02.24 16:51:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Swynet on 24/02/2011 16:51:51
Originally by: NoTwo Niang http://www.evenews24.com/2011/02/23/promote-killboard-synergy-like-a-boss-undock-a-74-2-bil-pimp-mobile/
even in pvp why?
Most impressive is to see in the same KM 750 pilots all races taking down 5 SC's pimped to hell but:
Over 85% of the BS's used Artys and every one of them had far best DPS than same ship with lazers/hybrids and using their racial ship guns/bonus.
It's not just a matter of cap saving whenever you put them in your myrmidon or your mega/hype, it's also because they have better dps projection even without ship bonus. Try to fit a thorax with 180mm T2 autos and go to fight, then try the same with electrons and you'll see what I mean.
You want a cheap Mach? -take an hype put 800mm T2 on and you'll be able to shield tank or armor tank, get over 1000m/s under mwd withour overload and over 1K dps wich you can't with blasters. Ho yes you can, in EFT but that all, in paper. ________________________________________________
Originally by: Goose99 In EVE, PVE can happen anywhere, anytime. Whenever you undock, you subject yourself to involuntary PVE.
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Seriously Bored
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.02.24 17:06:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Sakkar Arenith
High non-bonus dps-----> check!
Uncheck. ששששש
Originally by: CCP Big Dumb Object When I nerf something, it takes 2-3 months for your dreams to be crushed.
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Swynet
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Posted - 2011.02.24 17:48:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Seriously Bored Edited by: Seriously Bored on 24/02/2011 17:09:51
Originally by: Sakkar Arenith
High non-bonus dps-----> check!
Uncheck.
ED: Unbonussed ACs and Artillery are the lowest DPS weapons in any category.
False.
It's only half true once again in EFT. Whenever you put them in an amarrian or gallente hull with an apropriate fit you still have better dps than those ships racial guns.
Sorry didn't saw you're minie defending your "i win" button. ________________________________________________
Originally by: Goose99 In EVE, PVE can happen anywhere, anytime. Whenever you undock, you subject yourself to involuntary PVE.
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Seriously Bored
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.02.24 18:01:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Swynet It's only half true once again in EFT.
Ignore EFT. Divide the damage multiplier by the firing time. It's a simple fact of mathematics that projectiles are the lowest DPS turret weapon without any sort of ship bonuses.
The rest of the points on that list can be argued for and against. But the statement that I quoted it is patently false.
Quote: Whenever you put them in an amarrian or gallente hull with an apropriate fit you still have better dps than those ships racial guns.
Your argument is unsupported. Provide fits.
Quote: Sorry didn't saw you're minie defending your "i win" button.
I'm a fan of balance. I hate Angel ships, I think hybrids need a buff. You are correct that inaccurate and unsupported projectile bashing doesn't sit well with me though. ששששש
Originally by: CCP Big Dumb Object When I nerf something, it takes 2-3 months for your dreams to be crushed.
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