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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 5 post(s) |
Frying Doom
Zat's Affiliated Traders
682
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Posted - 2012.09.02 01:10:00 -
[211] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:Frying Doom wrote:Petrus Blackshell wrote:What do you do if those miners and mission runners indeed don't care enough about voting (as they have demonstrated) The only thing that has actually been demonstrated is that they have not voted, not their reasons for doing so. Given that they've whined incessantly about how "The CSM isn't representing us!!!" for quite a while now, I'm going to go out on a limb and postulate that what's been demonstrated is that people in hisec don't care to vote, yet they still feel entitled to ***** and whine about how "the CSM doesn't contain the people we want it to contain" several months after the fact. And yet most of the people who use these forums are not Hi-sec residence.
I wonder if there is a correlation between using these forums and leaving Hi-sec Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge.
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betoli
Ketogenic Killzone
35
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Posted - 2012.09.02 01:17:00 -
[212] - Quote
Petrus Blackshell wrote:Frying Doom wrote:Petrus Blackshell wrote:What do you do if those miners and mission runners indeed don't care enough about voting (as they have demonstrated) The only thing that has actually been demonstrated is that they have not voted, not their reasons for doing so. Do you have another in mind? If not, apply Occam's Razor to the common problem of voter apathy.
voter apathy is a symptom not a cause.....
Frying Doom wrote: And the simplest answer is that the majority of players have no idea what a CSM is.
Central Space Museum maybe?
is probably quite likely. Together with "All the options are equal so it doesn't matter" - equal can mean equally good, equally bad, or equally not representing them. |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
318
|
Posted - 2012.09.02 01:18:00 -
[213] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:I wonder if there is a correlation between using these forums and leaving Hi-sec
Given how many people where caught unawares of Burn Jita that I talked to before & after it started I'd say most HI SEC residents don't troll post/read the forums. Even with the Burn Jita banners in the starting screens many didn't notice it =========================================================
EVE residents: 5% Wormholes; 8% Lowsec; 20% Nullsec; 67% Highsec. CSM 6: 100% Nullsec residents. EVE demographics vs CSM demographics, nothing to worry about... |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
9311
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Posted - 2012.09.02 01:20:00 -
[214] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:What about the previous bottle neck before the creation of CSM? The previous bottleneck also failed to be represented by the CSM chair.
Quote:IMHO it is needed and I've heard it echoed & grimbled on often enough in HI SEC they we are unrepresented. GǪand pretty much nothing has been put forward to back that noise up. In short: what is lacking? What issues are left behind? What issues do they believe would be raised if the composition was different?
Quote:CSM is viewed as a for NULL entity everywhere I go. It has a definite image problem. Sure. Highseccers have a similar image problem: they are commonly viewed as having no idea what's going on around them and not knowing what they're talking about. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.
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Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings Ushra'Khan
1441
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Posted - 2012.09.02 01:30:00 -
[215] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:Petrus Blackshell wrote:Frying Doom wrote:Petrus Blackshell wrote:What do you do if those miners and mission runners indeed don't care enough about voting (as they have demonstrated) The only thing that has actually been demonstrated is that they have not voted, not their reasons for doing so. Do you have another in mind? If not, apply Occam's Razor to the common problem of voter apathy. And the simplest answer is that the majority of players have no idea what a CSM is. Central Space Museum maybe? I don't see a Central Space Museum mentioned on the login screen here, or here. If those were ineffective, what more should CCP do to inform people? Forum posts? Global Eve mails? Immersion-breaking ads in space or in CQ? A section in the tutorial about an event that happens once a year?
"Not informed" in Eve means "didn't arse himself to look it up when he ran across it" or "doesn't actually interact with people". Just like you can inform yourself about the best resist profile to use for your level 4 missions, or about the best way to avoid and discourage suicide ganks, you can also inform yourself about how the CSM works and who's running, then vote.
Yes, an information campaign that forces an overload of CSM awareness stuff onto all of Eve might solve some of this, but just like there are people who are surprised by balance changes because they don't bother to read the forums or by political shifts because they don't bother to read any Eve News at all, there will also always be people who simply don't bother to know about the CSM until it's too late -- at which point they start bitching about not being represented because of their own apathy.
Edit: no, seriously, one of those says "NO VOTES NERF BOATS". Choosing to ignore it and not vote is pretty much saying "I'm okay with being screwed over". Come on! Rifterlings - Small gang lowsec combat corp specializing in frigates and cruisers (all races, not just Rifters!). US Timezone veterans and newbies alike are welcome to join. Come chat in the "we fly rifters" in-game channel. Free fitted frigates for members! |
Frying Doom
Zat's Affiliated Traders
683
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Posted - 2012.09.02 01:36:00 -
[216] - Quote
Petrus Blackshell wrote:Frying Doom wrote:Petrus Blackshell wrote:Frying Doom wrote:Petrus Blackshell wrote:What do you do if those miners and mission runners indeed don't care enough about voting (as they have demonstrated) The only thing that has actually been demonstrated is that they have not voted, not their reasons for doing so. Do you have another in mind? If not, apply Occam's Razor to the common problem of voter apathy. And the simplest answer is that the majority of players have no idea what a CSM is. Central Space Museum maybe? I don't see a Central Space Museum mentioned on the login screen here, or here. If those were ineffective, what more should CCP do to inform people? Forum posts? Global Eve mails? Immersion-breaking ads in space or in CQ? A section in the tutorial about an event that happens once a year? "Not informed" in Eve means "didn't arse himself to look it up when he ran across it" or "doesn't actually interact with people". Just like you can inform yourself about the best resist profile to use for your level 4 missions, or about the best way to avoid and discourage suicide ganks, you can also inform yourself about how the CSM works and who's running, then vote. Yes, an information campaign that forces an overload of CSM awareness stuff onto all of Eve might solve some of this, but just like there are people who are surprised by balance changes because they don't bother to read the forums or by political shifts because they don't bother to read any Eve News at all, there will also always be people who simply don't bother to know about the CSM until it's too late -- at which point they start bitching about not being represented because of their own apathy. Or maybe they have real lives. It is not a good point to make that casual players should have less involvement in the CSM because they don't have the time to research everything they come across and read the dev blogs and eve news as well.
There money is as good as those of hard core players and so are their complaints. Some people may just want to play the game but they should at least be educated as to what some things are like the CSM and why Dev Blogs are important.
As to immersion breaking ads in space, I see nothing wrong with bill boards in space. When I was a noob I used to sit there and watch them. Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge.
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Milton Middleson
Rifterlings Ushra'Khan
86
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Posted - 2012.09.02 01:44:00 -
[217] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote: methinks your definition of electoral voting need better defining: An electoral district (also known as a constituency, riding, ward, division, electoral area or electorate) is a distinct territorial subdivision for holding a separate election for one or more seats in a legislative body. Generally, only voters who reside within the geographical bounds of an electoral district (constituents) are permitted to vote in an election held there
At-large elections are a thing. They are not undemocratic or unrepresentative. What is undemocratic and unrepresentative is gerrymandering to deprive active, involved voters of their voice because they support an agenda you dislike.
Quote:Given how many people where caught unawares of Burn Jita that I talked to before & after it started I'd say most HI SEC residents don't troll post/read the forums. Even with the Burn Jita banners in the starting screens many didn't notice it
When people can't be bothered to read the forums, can't be bothered to vote, can't be bothered to note all the rumors about a huge gankfest planned for a specific weekend, and can't be bothered to see the giant banner on start up saying "Jita is a shitstorm. You probably shouldn't go there", I think it is safe to say they are apathetic and disengaged. The fact that they refuse to become more so is not something CCP can fix by rearranging election rules. |
betoli
Ketogenic Killzone
35
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Posted - 2012.09.02 01:47:00 -
[218] - Quote
Petrus Blackshell wrote: If those were ineffective, what more should CCP do to inform people? Forum posts?
Global Eve mails?
No its only the sad fucks that read the boards,
email reaches everyone except people who chose to ignore it.
Petrus Blackshell wrote: Immersion-breaking ads in space or in CQ?
Immersion breaking why?
Petrus Blackshell wrote: A section in the tutorial about an event that happens once a year?
Only reaches a limited audience.
Petrus Blackshell wrote: "Not informed" in Eve means "didn't arse himself to look it up when he ran across it" or "doesn't actually interact with people". Just like you can inform yourself about the best resist profile to use for your level 4 missions, or about the best way to avoid and discourage suicide ganks, you can also inform yourself about how the CSM works and who's running, then vote.
people inform themselves on those topics because they have an immediate problem to solve - they are dying and wish not to. voting isn't an immediate problem.
Petrus Blackshell wrote: Yes, an information campaign that forces an overload of CSM awareness stuff onto all of Eve might solve some of this, but just like there are people who are surprised by balance changes because they don't bother to read the forums or by political shifts because they don't bother to read any Eve News at all, there will also always be people who simply don't bother to know about the CSM until it's too late -- at which point they start bitching about not being represented because of their own apathy.
The forums aren't part of the game, why the hell should people have to come here?
unawareness isn't apathy. Why the **** would you restrict (by implication) voting to people who play the game and not the meta game. Crikey you were whining about misplaced immersion breaking up there, but now you want people to log onto the 20th century internet to participate - FAIL.
Seriously in game is the best way to reach players. A button on the char select page "Place your CSM vote here" with the same prominence as we get when CCP actually want us to bother doing something. Make it a part of the game, not a part of the meta game. |
Frying Doom
Zat's Affiliated Traders
685
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Posted - 2012.09.02 01:49:00 -
[219] - Quote
Petrus Blackshell wrote:I don't see a Central Space Museum mentioned on the login screen here, or here. If those were ineffective, what more should CCP do to inform people? Forum posts? Global Eve mails? Immersion-breaking ads in space or in CQ? A section in the tutorial about an event that happens once a year? I almost missed that what has the Sansha got to go with the CSM, that is a stupid add it makes it look like the CSM is only for incursion runners, and again with the other one what is the council of stellar management. I have no shares in Stellar management, do you? Why would I care about a corp called Stellar management? Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge.
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Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings Ushra'Khan
1441
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Posted - 2012.09.02 01:58:00 -
[220] - Quote
betoli wrote:Seriously in game is the best way to reach players. A button on the char select page "Place your CSM vote here" with the same prominence as we get when CCP actually want us to bother doing something. Make it a part of the game, not a part of the meta game. You mean like the big login banners, and the news items on the right of the character selection screens that nobody ever reads? (I miss them sometimes, too).
Unawareness is caused by apathy. "They wouldn't be so apathetic if only they were aware" is irrelevant if they are not willing to click a button and read a page of info on the CSM and its candidates. If someone is playing Eve like an instant-satisfaction single player game where they log on, do something for an immediate "win", then log off, and shut out everything longer term or having to do with the game community they're part of, they're bound to miss important non-short-term news: the CSM elections, Jita being a shitstorm, balance changes, etc. When things happen and take them by surprise, they really have nobody to blame other than themselves. The only way to reach people like this is via super-intrusive ads that might be ignored anyway, and just bother the rest of the playerbase.
I'm trying to give hisec players the benefit of the doubt. Maybe they are legitimately handicapped by not communicating with others in a massively multiplayer game (who'd have thought?). So... how do you solve it? How do you let them all know to get off their asses and vote, so the CSM reflects the proper Eve demographics?
I, for one, don't see a way. That is why I'm being cynical. Rifterlings - Small gang lowsec combat corp specializing in frigates and cruisers (all races, not just Rifters!). US Timezone veterans and newbies alike are welcome to join. Come chat in the "we fly rifters" in-game channel. Free fitted frigates for members! |
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Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings Ushra'Khan
1441
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Posted - 2012.09.02 02:09:00 -
[221] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:Petrus Blackshell wrote:I don't see a Central Space Museum mentioned on the login screen here, or here. If those were ineffective, what more should CCP do to inform people? Forum posts? Global Eve mails? Immersion-breaking ads in space or in CQ? A section in the tutorial about an event that happens once a year? I almost missed that what has the Sansha got to go with the CSM, that is a stupid add it makes it look like the CSM is only for incursion runners, and again with the other one what is the council of stellar management. I have no shares in Stellar management, do you? Why would I care about a corp called Stellar management? So, just to be clear who we appear to be talking about:
It's an Eve player who has never heard of The Mittani and CSM antics, has never read a recent article about Eve in a gaming news source, doesn't read Eve forums (official or not), doesn't pay attention to the login splash ads, doesn't pay attention to the Eve news items, doesn't read Eve's Facebook page or Twitter feed, the Eve subreddit or a number of other social media outlets, doesn't know about the main things that make Eve stand out from other games, and either interacts with no people or with people who fulfill all the above criteria.
And this person represents the majority of hisec, and this is why they didn't vote or didn't know about Burn Jita upcoming... because they didn't know that these things existed?
It is extremely hard to believe that there are so many absolutely clueless and cut off from a game which requires a substantial amount of personal investment. Rather, it is much easier to believe that most people have come across the CSM, Burn Jita, or whatever other exampler we're using, but were disinterested or didn't bother to look into it because it didn't have to do with what they were doing at that time.
So, how do you reach out to someone like that? I have no clue, and I do not believe it to be possible without plastering the game with " HEY! HEY, LISTEN! GO VOTE FOR THE CSM! HEY LISTEN!".
Rifterlings - Small gang lowsec combat corp specializing in frigates and cruisers (all races, not just Rifters!). US Timezone veterans and newbies alike are welcome to join. Come chat in the "we fly rifters" in-game channel. Free fitted frigates for members! |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings Ushra'Khan
1441
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Posted - 2012.09.02 02:11:00 -
[222] - Quote
Also yes the image ad guys at CCP need to consider not only if the ad is spiffy-looking and has a clever pun, but whether it actually delivers its point. Neither of those are particularly great. Rifterlings - Small gang lowsec combat corp specializing in frigates and cruisers (all races, not just Rifters!). US Timezone veterans and newbies alike are welcome to join. Come chat in the "we fly rifters" in-game channel. Free fitted frigates for members! |
betoli
Ketogenic Killzone
35
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Posted - 2012.09.02 02:16:00 -
[223] - Quote
Petrus Blackshell wrote:betoli wrote:Seriously in game is the best way to reach players. A button on the char select page "Place your CSM vote here" with the same prominence as we get when CCP actually want us to bother doing something. Make it a part of the game, not a part of the meta game. You mean like the big login banners, and the news items on the right of the character selection screens that nobody ever reads? (I miss them sometimes, too).
I also never read them. MY brain just subtracts them from the image my retina sends.
But there is a reason for this - normally the content there is uninteresting, and so one day the fact that it might be interesting goes unnoticed. Thats why it doesn't work - its just bad marketing by CCP. It needs unique prominence.
Petrus Blackshell wrote: Unawareness is caused by apathy. "They wouldn't be so apathetic if only they were aware" is irrelevant if they are not willing to click a button and read a page of info on the CSM and its candidates.
Which as we both agreed is in a place neither of us ever look at......
Petrus Blackshell wrote: If someone is playing Eve like an instant-satisfaction single player game where they log on, do something for an immediate "win", then log off, and shut out everything longer term or having to do with the game community they're part of, they're bound to miss important non-short-term news: the CSM elections, Jita being a shitstorm, balance changes, etc. When things happen and take them by surprise, they really have nobody to blame other than themselves. The only way to reach people like this is via super-intrusive ads that might be ignored anyway, and just bother the rest of the playerbase.
I agree on all those other topics. But there is no reason to expect players to read the boards. If they gain advantage by doing so cool - thats a time investment reward.
Petrus Blackshell wrote: I'm trying to give hisec players the benefit of the doubt. Maybe they are legitimately handicapped by not communicating with others in a massively multiplayer game (who'd have thought?).
So... how do you solve it? How do you let them all know to get off their asses and vote, so the CSM reflects the proper Eve demographics?
No you want them to read and pay attention to ads that you just confessed you don't always see, AND you want them to communicate, not in-game, but out of game.
You put the information somewhere that people associate with important information in a format thats easily digestible and relevant - ie not on an out of game discussion board mainly filled with trolls and bollocks, or an ad location that's normally full of irrelevant crapo. This is a marketing issue, and it isn't given the prominence it should be - there are loads of ways of doing this that aren't immersion breaking.
Whats the voting percentage again? Is it more than 10%??? How does that compare to the number of players who manage to collect a freebie at Christmas? See where I'm going there.... ? The fundamental point is that calling voter apathy is a cop out for bad information presentation - either that or just resign yourself to the fact that only the die hards (mainly vets) will pay attention. |
Polly Oxford
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
57
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Posted - 2012.09.02 02:18:00 -
[224] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:Petrus Blackshell wrote:DarthNefarius wrote:Yes but the popular vote we got don't work because its results are NOT representative. We need an electoral voting system in Eve Electoral systems IRL are meant to bring balance to elections in which areas with too low population do not have enough say in things because they are so few . methinks your definition of electoral voting need better defining: An electoral district (also known as a constituency, riding, ward, division, electoral area or electorate) is a distinct territorial subdivision for holding a separate election for one or more seats in a legislative body. Generally, only voters who reside within the geographical bounds of an electoral district (constituents) are permitted to vote in an election held there
I have an alt in highsec. Am I allowed to vote with it? |
Polly Oxford
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
57
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Posted - 2012.09.02 02:19:00 -
[225] - Quote
Also if you don't see how an electoral system is incredibly bad, especially if there are only 300k potential voters you are pretty stupid. |
betoli
Ketogenic Killzone
35
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Posted - 2012.09.02 02:22:00 -
[226] - Quote
Petrus Blackshell wrote:Also yes the image ad guys at CCP need to consider not only if the ad is spiffy-looking and has a clever pun, but whether it actually delivers its point. Neither of those are particularly great.
Exactly!
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betoli
Ketogenic Killzone
35
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Posted - 2012.09.02 02:27:00 -
[227] - Quote
Polly Oxford wrote:DarthNefarius wrote:Petrus Blackshell wrote:DarthNefarius wrote:Yes but the popular vote we got don't work because its results are NOT representative. We need an electoral voting system in Eve Electoral systems IRL are meant to bring balance to elections in which areas with too low population do not have enough say in things because they are so few . methinks your definition of electoral voting need better defining: An electoral district (also known as a constituency, riding, ward, division, electoral area or electorate) is a distinct territorial subdivision for holding a separate election for one or more seats in a legislative body. Generally, only voters who reside within the geographical bounds of an electoral district (constituents) are permitted to vote in an election held there I have an alt in highsec. Am I allowed to vote with it?
This approach would mean an *account* having to state its location, and every candidate having to state which location they are standing for. Not necessarily a bad thing, but easily abused given that Eve players don't have a residential address.
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DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
319
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Posted - 2012.09.02 02:31:00 -
[228] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:Petrus Blackshell wrote:I don't see a Central Space Museum mentioned on the login screen here, or here. If those were ineffective, what more should CCP do to inform people? I almost missed that what has the Sansha got to go with the CSM, that is a stupid add it makes it look like the CSM is only for incursion runners,
lol I don't recall either of those banners.... TBH I think I treat the banners like I do any internet ad & don'teven see them anymore. Maybe if we told all miners that Hulks would get NERFed again if they don't vote next election they'd actually vote =========================================================
EVE residents: 5% Wormholes; 8% Lowsec; 20% Nullsec; 67% Highsec. CSM 6: 100% Nullsec residents. EVE demographics vs CSM demographics, nothing to worry about... |
Frying Doom
Zat's Affiliated Traders
685
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Posted - 2012.09.02 02:39:00 -
[229] - Quote
Polly Oxford wrote:Also if you don't see how an electoral system is incredibly bad, especially if there are only 300k potential voters you are pretty stupid. You don't believe that an election system that is so easy to rig is incredibly bad? Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge.
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James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
595
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Posted - 2012.09.02 02:46:00 -
[230] - Quote
Petrus Blackshell wrote:Also yes the image ad guys at CCP need to consider not only if the ad is spiffy-looking and has a clever pun, but whether it actually delivers its point. Neither of those are particularly great. COUNCIL OF STELLAR MANAGEMENT YOUR VOTE IS IMPORTANT "Oh gee, that's probably meant for someone else. Who gives a ****." http://themittani.com/features/local-problem A simple fix to the local intel problem |
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Frying Doom
Zat's Affiliated Traders
685
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Posted - 2012.09.02 03:30:00 -
[231] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Petrus Blackshell wrote:Also yes the image ad guys at CCP need to consider not only if the ad is spiffy-looking and has a clever pun, but whether it actually delivers its point. Neither of those are particularly great. COUNCIL OF STELLAR MANAGEMENT YOUR VOTE IS IMPORTANT "Oh gee, that's probably meant for someone else. Who gives a ****." Being that you can pay to have corp ads put up, how the hell are people supposed to know that it was not just another ad for the Stellar Management corporation? Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge.
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Karl Hobb
Stellar Ore Refinery and Crematorium
517
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Posted - 2012.09.02 03:46:00 -
[232] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:Being that you can pay to have corp ads put up, how the hell are people supposed to know that it was not just another ad for the Stellar Management corporation? Yellow text on a black background. Nothing Found |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
596
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Posted - 2012.09.02 03:50:00 -
[233] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Petrus Blackshell wrote:Also yes the image ad guys at CCP need to consider not only if the ad is spiffy-looking and has a clever pun, but whether it actually delivers its point. Neither of those are particularly great. COUNCIL OF STELLAR MANAGEMENT YOUR VOTE IS IMPORTANT "Oh gee, that's probably meant for someone else. Who gives a ****." Being that you can pay to have corp ads put up, how the hell are people supposed to know that it was not just another ad for the Stellar Management corporation? Jesus Christ, stop making excuses. http://themittani.com/features/local-problem A simple fix to the local intel problem |
Lord Arakkis
Vestige of Vehemence Dragon Swarm Dynasty
45
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Posted - 2012.09.02 03:51:00 -
[234] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:OP seems to have hit a level of bitter so high that his face has collapsed into itself...
his face is tantamount to a black hole? lol
Your still a child in the eyes of the universe |
Frying Doom
Zat's Affiliated Traders
686
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Posted - 2012.09.02 04:00:00 -
[235] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Frying Doom wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Petrus Blackshell wrote:Also yes the image ad guys at CCP need to consider not only if the ad is spiffy-looking and has a clever pun, but whether it actually delivers its point. Neither of those are particularly great. COUNCIL OF STELLAR MANAGEMENT YOUR VOTE IS IMPORTANT "Oh gee, that's probably meant for someone else. Who gives a ****." Being that you can pay to have corp ads put up, how the hell are people supposed to know that it was not just another ad for the Stellar Management corporation? Jesus Christ, stop making excuses. How is that an excuse, people who do not follow the forums and even then the CSM only comes up at certain times, would have no idea what the Council of Stellar management is.
The name by its self means nothing, people need education, not people saying that because they did not vote they just don't care. Some people I presume did not vote because they do not care but how many of the 83.37% of accounts that did not vote in the last election, did not vote because they did not care or did not understand what the CSM was or believed the CSM was only to do with Null sec, I do not know and neither do you. Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge.
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James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
596
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Posted - 2012.09.02 04:03:00 -
[236] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Frying Doom wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Petrus Blackshell wrote:Also yes the image ad guys at CCP need to consider not only if the ad is spiffy-looking and has a clever pun, but whether it actually delivers its point. Neither of those are particularly great. COUNCIL OF STELLAR MANAGEMENT YOUR VOTE IS IMPORTANT "Oh gee, that's probably meant for someone else. Who gives a ****." Being that you can pay to have corp ads put up, how the hell are people supposed to know that it was not just another ad for the Stellar Management corporation? Jesus Christ, stop making excuses. How is that an excuse, people who do not follow the forums and even then the CSM only comes up at certain times, would have no idea what the Council of Stellar management is. The name by its self means nothing, people need education, not people saying that because they did not vote they just don't care. Some people I presume did not vote because they do not care but how many of the 83.37% of accounts that did not vote in the last election, did not vote because they did not care or did not understand what the CSM was or believed the CSM was only to do with Null sec, I do not know and neither do you. This game isn't for people who can't be bothered to learn anything themselves. If they didn't care that's their ******* problem and they get to suffer the consequences. That's just the way it is. If you think there should be more education about the CSM then maybe YOU should take charge. http://themittani.com/features/local-problem A simple fix to the local intel problem |
Frying Doom
Zat's Affiliated Traders
687
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Posted - 2012.09.02 04:14:00 -
[237] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote: This game isn't for people who can't be bothered to learn anything themselves. If they didn't care that's their ******* problem and they get to suffer the consequences. That's just the way it is. If you think there should be more education about the CSM then maybe YOU should take charge.
So you believe that only people who have the time to check the forums and read the wiki and read the news sites and log into SiSi should have a say in what is going on?
Some people have real lives and real live jobs, families and strangely play this game as a game. They should have the right to have there say and be educated at the right time about what they should be voting about.
After that if they choose not to Vote after they know what they are deciding not to participate in fair enough.
It should not be the right any group in this game to say that because players choose not to take part in things, external to the game it's self, that they should not have the right to participate or be educated in to what the function of the CSM is. Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge.
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Cutter Isaacson
Quantum Reality R n D GREATER ITAMO MAFIA
889
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Posted - 2012.09.02 04:34:00 -
[238] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote: This game isn't for people who can't be bothered to learn anything themselves. If they didn't care that's their ******* problem and they get to suffer the consequences. That's just the way it is. If you think there should be more education about the CSM then maybe YOU should take charge.
So you believe that only people who have the time to check the forums and read the wiki and read the news sites and log into SiSi should have a say in what is going on? Some people have real lives and real live jobs, families and strangely play this game as a game. They should have the right to have there say and be educated at the right time about what they should be voting about. After that if they choose not to Vote after they know what they are deciding not to participate in fair enough. It should not be the right any group in this game to say that because players choose not to take part in things, external to the game it's self, that they should not have the right to participate or be educated in to what the function of the CSM is.
The CSM has been around for 6 years now; that is over half the life of the game. It is advertised and talked about in so many different places, at so many different levels and by such a plethora of people, that ignorance of its existence is almost unfathomable.
The only people who do not know what it is or what function it performs in the player community are those who, by choice, segregate and isolate themselves from that community. As such they automatically lose the right to take part in even the most basic decisions regarding the future of the game they play.
EVE is and should always remain a game that requires a certain level of dedication and interaction on the part of its players, or it risks becoming an "almost ran" in the gaming industry. I cannot imagine a worse fate for such a fine product. My views are my own, not those of my Corp. or my Alliance. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1290
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Posted - 2012.09.02 04:58:00 -
[239] - Quote
Cutter Isaacson wrote:The only people who do not know what it is or what function it performs in the player community are those who, by choice, segregate and isolate themselves from that community. As such they automatically lose the right to take part in even the most basic decisions regarding the future of the game they play. No, they always support the claim of whoever is posting at the time.
ie: They want more nerfs to ganking, I guess? Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm |
Frying Doom
Zat's Affiliated Traders
687
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Posted - 2012.09.02 05:01:00 -
[240] - Quote
Cutter Isaacson wrote: The CSM has been around for 6 years now; that is over half the life of the game. It is advertised and talked about in so many different places, at so many different levels and by such a plethora of people, that ignorance of its existence is almost unfathomable.
Given that the majority of this game do not use the forums, let alone all the sites the CSM is mentioned on their ability to perceive the existence of the CSM is only in-game. Inside the game there are no references made to the CSM other than those few banners on the log in page that in no way shape or form actually state what the CSM is. Peoples inabilty to have the time or feel the need to check multiple sites should in no way shape or form lessen their right to vote or be informed about the CSM
Cutter Isaacson wrote:The only people who do not know what it is or what function it performs in the player community are those who, by choice, segregate and isolate themselves from that community. As such they automatically lose the right to take part in even the most basic decisions regarding the future of the game they play. On this I completely disagree, from your argument I could use the case that you don't seem to have posted in the Test Server Feedback threads and so you should there for not be eligible to vote. You seem to have segregated your self from part of the EvE community by not posting there, why should you be allowed to vote if others who don't read things external to the game should not be educated?
Cutter Isaacson wrote:EVE is and should always remain a game that requires a certain level of dedication and interaction on the part of its players, or it risks becoming an "almost ran" in the gaming industry. I cannot imagine a worse fate for such a fine product. Oh nice scare tactics, you might have tried "People who do not Vote for the CSM are causing Global warming" More shock but about the same amount of truth. Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge.
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