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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 7 post(s) |
The Apostle
The Black Priests
109
|
Posted - 2011.09.28 21:57:00 -
[1] - Quote
We all know it goes on. We all ***** and complain and moan about it. But THIS drew my ire.
GoonSwarm Federation Alliance Update GÇô September 28th
Quote:Blue-On-Blue Violence
This is a sensitive GÇô even a touchy GÇô subject, so let me say that while he is, indeed, a keen ratter GÇô a very keen ratter if we are honest GÇô we have one rule in Goonswarm: we donGÇÖt **** other goons. Oh and we donGÇÖt play cop for CCP in their own game by reporting or petitioning goons, either:
But if it were the case that he had been ratting just a little too exuberantly for peoplesGÇÖ liking, or if he had offended them by consistently ignoring their conversation requests for a brief window of, say, seventeen or eighteen hours, for instance, then it would be goon-****** to report him or to kill him. This will land you and your corp in trouble as all we know is that someone shot blues.
So at what point does an alliance, with it's head as THE CSM CHAIRMAN, allow bots, WHICH IS AGAINST THE EULA, and ACTIVELY THREATEN MEMBERS WITH EXPULSION if they should report said bots.
I know for a fact that several corps/alliances have a zero tolerance for bots, including a DekCo kiss buddy alliance called FA. Hoorah to Zag for that!
But for Goons to threaten expulsion flies directly in the face of the EULA. Surely even encouraging/harbouring such activity must be embedded into the EULA immediately. NO-ONE should have ANY tolerance for bots let alone SUPPORT them.
I call on CCP to start banning CORPS and ALLIANCES for ACTIVELY ENCOURAGING botting, knowingly and in the face of it being downright illegal ingame.
And for the sensible Goons (are there any?), if you think you can be threatened with expulsion for bot-reporting, just remember that no CEO will know, or can know, if you reported the cheating, thieving SOB!! Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo! |
Mara Tessidar
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
56
|
Posted - 2011.09.28 22:08:00 -
[2] - Quote
I missed the part where it said "Don't report bots." Can you bold it for me? Notify: You are eaten by the Whumpus |
The Apostle
The Black Priests
110
|
Posted - 2011.09.28 22:12:00 -
[3] - Quote
Mara Tessidar wrote:I missed the part where it said "Don't report bots." Can you bold it for me? So if you're under the impression that this is NOT being said (which it clearly does), then please, report all your bots, you'll be fine won't you? Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo! |
Revajin
15 Minute Outliers Chained Reactions
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.28 22:12:00 -
[4] - Quote
Goons are botting? The Mittani not actually giving a **** about EVE and just being an attention *****/looking out for Goon interests? This news is exciting and fresh. |
Mara Tessidar
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
56
|
Posted - 2011.09.28 22:15:00 -
[5] - Quote
I missed the part where it said "Don't report bots." Can you bold it for me? Notify: You are eaten by the Whumpus |
Tarikla
Projet Aurora
3
|
Posted - 2011.09.28 22:15:00 -
[6] - Quote
Well , to point the obvious :
Quote: But if it were the case that he had been ratting just a little too exuberantly for peoplesGÇÖ liking, or if he had offended them by consistently ignoring their conversation requests for a brief window of, say, seventeen or eighteen hours, for instance, then it would be goon-****** to report him or to kill him.
And , you know , unless he really got NO LIFE at all , it's against the Eula , because he :
- Is Botting - Is sharing his account with other people in order to get more profit
And both of them are prohibited by the EULA |
Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
24
|
Posted - 2011.09.28 22:17:00 -
[7] - Quote
Mara Tessidar wrote:I missed the part where it said "Don't report bots." Can you bold it for me?
Oh really cause its spelled all out in there.
Leme help you out a bit:
Quote:we have one rule in Goonswarm: we donGÇÖt **** other goons
Theres another line in there about not being CCP's cops but you know, this was just a single quote.
Don't try to hide from it, if you're embracing it, embrace it, you guys bot, no big deal, CCP aren't going to ban any of you because they lost something like 20% of their subs (fairly constantly rumored number) over the summer.
Sure sure they keep up appearances by some dev coming in the thread and sighting how botting is against the EULA, but lets seriously step back and take a look:
At this point if they banned all the bots too, they would be about out of players.
So year, Goons bot, RUS bots, AAA bots, RAIDEN. bots, would no longer shock me to find that PL guys bot too (though if we catch them we have a special hell to send them to).
|
Vernn Miller
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
16
|
Posted - 2011.09.28 22:21:00 -
[8] - Quote
I must have missed that part in the EULA that says alliances have to enforce CCP`s laws.
Also, the copy pasta you quoted makes no mention of any botting activities, it just reminds members of a certain alliance and coalition of alliances not to shoot blues if they hoard all the havens or sanctums in a system for a large amount of time. Large entities have their own rules and if you fail to respect them I think it`s fair to get the boot.
If you want to do some good in regards to botting, fly to some major mission hubs and have a look on dscan for CNRs that belong to characters not even two months old and are in a 1 man player corporation with 0% tax.
And stop being a ******.
How many Caldari does it take to screw in a light bulb? - None. Caldari do not screw, they are grown in factories. |
Jita Alt666
274
|
Posted - 2011.09.28 22:22:00 -
[9] - Quote
No where in your "quote" is any one actively encouraging or promoting botting. BTW the "leaked" version of that I have seen then goes on to provide the direction that members of that alliance should take to sort out the problem -> report suspects to diplomatic team and let alliance sort it out. You are intentionally taking things out of context to cause drama which raises the question: Are you a goon alt? |
Mara Tessidar
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
57
|
Posted - 2011.09.28 22:24:00 -
[10] - Quote
Jita Alt666 wrote:No where in your "quote" is any one actively encouraging or promoting botting. BTW the "leaked" version of that I have seen then goes on to provide the direction that members of that alliance should take to sort out the problem -> report suspects to diplomatic team and let alliance sort it out. You are intentionally taking things out of context to cause drama which raises the question: Are you a goon alt?
THEY'RE ON TO ME Notify: You are eaten by the Whumpus |
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Stella SGP
The Kimotoro Initiative
2
|
Posted - 2011.09.28 22:26:00 -
[11] - Quote
Mara Tessidar wrote:I missed the part where it said "Don't report bots." Can you bold it for me? You need to try harder then that, or are you really that dense?
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KaarBaak
44
|
Posted - 2011.09.28 22:29:00 -
[12] - Quote
Mara Tessidar wrote:I missed the part where it said "Don't report bots." Can you bold it for me?
^^This.
I see where it says "don't report alliance mates who rat for 17-18 hours and ignore your convos" but I'm still missing the part about botting.
I hate botters as much as the next pilot, but reporting a blue player to CCP because they're botting all day and not taking your calls is pretty crappy thing to do in ANY alliance. |
The Apostle
The Black Priests
110
|
Posted - 2011.09.28 22:34:00 -
[13] - Quote
Quote:No where in your "quote" is any one actively encouraging or promoting botting. BTW the "leaked" version of that I have seen then goes on to provide the direction that members of that alliance should take to sort out the problem -> report suspects to diplomatic team and let alliance sort it out. You are intentionally taking things out of context to cause drama which raises the question: Let me clarify my position. It IS NOT a corp/alliance issue to determine if bots should/should not be reported. Botting is in direct violation of the EULA and as such ANY INDIVIDUAL MEMBER has the right, without threat of "retaliation", to report said bot.
To threaten expulsion (which is PLAINLY implied if not stated) for reporting blues is also NOT a corp/alliance issue.
Quote:I must have missed that part in the EULA that says alliances have to enforce CCP`s laws. Which is exactly my point above. But nor is the corp/alliance responsibly to tell players/members how to handle bots either.
Aliiances and corps either actively engage a policy to destroy suspected bots (I mean, you can shoot anybody for no reason) or they can "turn a blind eye" which I have no problem with as long as members can report as they see fit.
It's the implication of expulsion for reporting (which I repeat is CLEARLY IMPLIED) that is sooooo wrong! That IS NOT an alliance or corp call to make. Period. Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo! |
Sebero Sinak
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
4
|
Posted - 2011.09.28 22:42:00 -
[14] - Quote
I've quit playing Eve but came back for about 10 days of playing around the 12th - 22nd. All i did was hunt bots for the hell of it.
CCP banned 5 bots/isk farmers running transportation missions out of Eddar VIII i reported.
After finishing with them I was curious about the Goons so using Dotlan map i chose the red colored system of Goons (meaning it had the most npc kills in 24 hrs ) and went there in a cloaked frigate. S-DN5M
I found plenty of live players willing to engage me (if they could find me ). I found no wrecks at belts i visited and no goons - till they started flooding the belts trying to find me.
What I did find was more of the npc anomolies then i cared to try to count. I don't really care about 0.0 but i hate bots and that is why i went there - to see for myself. All i saw was players running those sites.
Thats what i found..you draw your own conclusions.
My opinion is every friggin alliance has some bot users - seems eve attracts the type. |
CATPAIN KIRK
State War Academy Caldari State
8
|
Posted - 2011.09.28 22:44:00 -
[15] - Quote
I dont beleive you - the 'goo' in goons stands for good! |
Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
56
|
Posted - 2011.09.28 22:45:00 -
[16] - Quote
Mara Tessidar wrote:I missed the part where it said "Don't report bots." Can you bold it for me?
You don't read contracts when you sign them, do you?
We want breast augmentations and sluttier clothing in the NeX! |
Cypermethren
Celtic Cartage And Hauling
3
|
Posted - 2011.09.28 22:49:00 -
[17] - Quote
Ratting/Mission running bots = should be bannable.
Mining bots should be allowed AND SUPPLIED by CCP untill they do something about mining so it doesnt make you want to jump out of your'e local 20 story office building.
Seriously, click, click, 3min wait......... repeat for 5 hours.
People have more fun station spinning......
Back to topic - Wakeup eve community.
All the big alliancs (ESPECIALY the big one that everyone is now worried will take over all of 0.0) are big into bots. And are enjoying the cofmort CCP's latest "hey lets see how many players we can get to ragequit over NeX!!!" stint, as now CCP arnt banning the botters for fear of loosing further money from subscriptions. |
Headerman
Quovis Shadow of xXDEATHXx
130
|
Posted - 2011.09.28 22:55:00 -
[18] - Quote
I remember Goons threatening to reset TEST cause TEST killed a single goon bot in F-88, i just lol'd. [img]http://i53.tinypic.com/bebnf8.jpg[/img] |
The Apostle
The Black Priests
113
|
Posted - 2011.09.28 22:57:00 -
[19] - Quote
Mr Kidd wrote:Mara Tessidar wrote:I missed the part where it said "Don't report bots." Can you bold it for me? You don't read contracts when you sign them, do you? ........ You've got to learn to read between the lines, otherwise you're a f*$king lemming. Have no fear. He knows EXACTLY what my post states. Anyone saying the post is not threatening expulsion for reporting bots is obfuscating the posts intent.
It's just their way to dumb down the topic. Troll 101
Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo! |
Oglyn
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
6
|
Posted - 2011.09.28 23:02:00 -
[20] - Quote
Mara Tessidar wrote:I missed the part where it said "Don't report bots." Can you bold it for me?
Oh and we donGÇÖt play cop for CCP in their own game by reporting or petitioning goons, either: |
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Stella SGP
The Kimotoro Initiative
3
|
Posted - 2011.09.28 23:13:00 -
[21] - Quote
The Apostle wrote:It's the implication of expulsion for reporting (which I repeat is CLEARLY IMPLIED) that is sooooo wrong! Haven't you already realize that we live in a world where we have to spell everything out clearly?
Labels on a bottle of sleeping pills that says "Warning, may cause drowsiness" Labels on bottles of beer that says "Consumption of alcoholic beverages impairs your ability to drive a car or operate machinery" Labels on Lego toys that says "Choking hazard, do no swallow" Labels on packets of peanuts that says "This product may contain trace amounts of peanuts and other tree nuts" Labels on windshield covers that says "Never drive with the cover on your windshield" Labels on Batman Halloween costumes that says "PARENT: Please exercise caution - mask and chest plate are not protective; cape does not enable wearer to fly" Labels on hairdryers that says "Do no use in shower" |
Cypermethren
Celtic Cartage And Hauling
3
|
Posted - 2011.09.28 23:16:00 -
[22] - Quote
Mara Tessidar wrote:I missed the part where it said "Don't report bots." Can you bold it for me?
Kinda like putting a paper bag over you're head and saying that everyone looking at you cant see you purely because you cant see them?
Even tho the evidence given by yourselves, is right there infront of you.... deny till the end right?
I mean it worked for US Govt Re 9/11 not being an inside job right? Should work for the goons too!
and Stella SGP - those are mostly US Sanctioned warning labels, they have them over here too. Perhaps with Iceland tho there's less chance of inbreeding and retards getting into the FDA and polotics yes? |
Quantessa
134th Imperial Hussars
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.28 23:25:00 -
[23] - Quote
I don't support botting.
I don't have any issue though with an Alliance declaring rules of not grassing up people for doing it. Other players can do it, Gms can try to detect it and so on.
In real life if I park on a yellow line it's a fair cop if I get caught but I'd find it completely unacceptable if a mate called the Feds to grass me up.
Outlawing the practice of informing on people is not the same as legalising a practice.
And if you don't like Goon CSMs vote for someone else and encourage others to do likewise. |
Abrazzar
134
|
Posted - 2011.09.28 23:31:00 -
[24] - Quote
Mara Tessidar wrote:I missed the part where it said "Don't report bots." Can you bold it for me? I don't know what's more sad, this obvious troll or people falling for it. Please visit your user settings to re-enable images. |
The Apostle
The Black Priests
113
|
Posted - 2011.09.28 23:33:00 -
[25] - Quote
Quantessa wrote:I don't support botting.
I don't have any issue though with an Alliance declaring rules of not grassing up people for doing it. Other players can do it, Gms can try to detect it and so on.
In real life if I park on a yellow line it's a fair cop if I get caught but I'd find it completely unacceptable if a mate called the Feds to grass me up.
Outlawing the practice of informing on people is not the same as legalising a practice.
And if you don't like Goon CSMs vote for someone else and encourage others to do likewise. I'm surprised by the number of taking-it-out-of-context posts on this.
Here's what I said in TL;DR form. Whether you do/don't report bots is up to the individual. Whether an alliance/corp does/does not report or act against bots is up to them too.
But to threaten expulsion if you DO report is a totally different issue. That is NOT for a corp/alliance to say. EVER.
And I'll live with "legalising" is not the same as "outlawing reporting". Fair point.
I should have used "Botting is ratified (pun intended), supported, encouraged and protected by Goons OR ELSE"..... Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo! |
Naglfar Nidhoggur
Republic University Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.28 23:42:00 -
[26] - Quote
If Goon A report's Goon B's botting activity and KEEPS HIS MOUTH SHUT then how does anyone know that he reported Goon B?
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The Apostle
The Black Priests
113
|
Posted - 2011.09.28 23:47:00 -
[27] - Quote
Naglfar Nidhoggur wrote:If Goon A report's Goon B's botting activity and KEEPS HIS MOUTH SHUT then how does anyone know that he reported Goon B?
Quote:And for the sensible Goons (are there any?), if you think you can be threatened with expulsion for bot-reporting, just remember that no CEO will know, or can know, if you reported the cheating, thieving SOB!!
QFT Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo! |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
48
|
Posted - 2011.09.28 23:48:00 -
[28] - Quote
Everyone knows that the "Report Bot" button is totally anonymous? There is no way anyone can tell they lost their account because of what you did? So if you can get a spy into Goonswarm you fly about, report all the bots, and no one will be the wiser! CCP employees should never proclaim a feature to be awesome. Only subscribers should. |
Stella SGP
The Kimotoro Initiative
3
|
Posted - 2011.09.28 23:48:00 -
[29] - Quote
Naglfar Nidhoggur wrote:If Goon A report's Goon B's botting activity and KEEPS HIS MOUTH SHUT then how does anyone know that he reported Goon B? Sreegs
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Cypermethren
Celtic Cartage And Hauling
4
|
Posted - 2011.09.28 23:53:00 -
[30] - Quote
Quantessa wrote:I don't support botting.
I don't have any issue though with an Alliance declaring rules of not grassing up people for doing it. Other players can do it, Gms can try to detect it and so on.
In real life if I park on a yellow line it's a fair cop if I get caught but I'd find it completely unacceptable if a mate called the Feds to grass me up.
Outlawing the practice of informing on people is not the same as legalising a practice.
And if you don't like Goon CSMs vote for someone else and encourage others to do likewise.
But parking on a yellow line isnt hurting anyone.
Botting hurts other eve players and the ENTIRE economy in eve.
would your'e "mates" ethics get you to turn a blind eye to the fact a friend of yours held up the local grocer and robbed them?
would you're "mates" ethics prevent you from calling an ambulance for someone purely because the person is need is someone you and your mate absoltuely hate/loathe?
Rules are put in place for a reason, not to be pick/chosen on regards to the occasion, and certainly not to be ridiculed or scrutanized by complete randoms that think they know better purely because the rule doesnt tickle their fancy.
I think CCP should take rules against botting further:
If you know about someone botting, and there is evidence to prove which you knew but never acted - you're also up for the same ban as the person whom was actualy using the bot.
in real life, if you know someone who held up a bank or a grocery store and you do not let the authorities know, you're guilty by association.
Eve is real, right? so lets get with the real punishment that needs to be dished out to the real arrogant wankers that think they're above/beyond eve's T&C/EULA. Tho, that would require CCP to grow a pair, which i realy dont think will happen any time soon.
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The Apostle
The Black Priests
114
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 00:00:00 -
[31] - Quote
Quote: I think CCP should take rules against botting further:
If you know about someone botting, and there is evidence to prove which you knew but never acted - you're also up for the same ban as the person whom was actualy using the bot.
in real life, if you know someone who held up a bank or a grocery store and you do not let the authorities know, you're guilty by association.
Eve is real, right? so lets get with the real punishment that needs to be dished out to the real arrogant wankers that think they're above/beyond eve's T&C/EULA. Tho, that would require CCP to grow a pair, which i realy dont think will happen any time soon.
Bingo. Someone gets it.
This pro-bot "laugh-in-your-face" stance by Goons needs to be hard-lined by CCP. Right now.
The Goons on the CSM, OUR ELECTED (apparently) player representatives, need to be booted out. Period. Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo! |
Stella SGP
The Kimotoro Initiative
3
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 00:06:00 -
[32] - Quote
Cypermethren wrote:Quantessa wrote:I don't support botting.
I don't have any issue though with an Alliance declaring rules of not grassing up people for doing it. Other players can do it, Gms can try to detect it and so on.
In real life if I park on a yellow line it's a fair cop if I get caught but I'd find it completely unacceptable if a mate called the Feds to grass me up.
Outlawing the practice of informing on people is not the same as legalising a practice.
And if you don't like Goon CSMs vote for someone else and encourage others to do likewise. But parking on a yellow line isnt hurting anyone. Botting hurts other eve players and the ENTIRE economy in eve. would your'e "mates" ethics get you to turn a blind eye to the fact a friend of yours held up the local grocer and robbed them? would you're "mates" ethics prevent you from calling an ambulance for someone purely because the person is need is someone you and your mate absoltuely hate/loathe? Rules are put in place for a reason, not to be pick/chosen on regards to the occasion, and certainly not to be ridiculed or scrutanized by complete randoms that think they know better purely because the rule doesnt tickle their fancy. I think CCP should take rules against botting further: If you know about someone botting, and there is evidence to prove which you knew but never acted - you're also up for the same ban as the person whom was actualy using the bot. in real life, if you know someone who held up a bank or a grocery store and you do not let the authorities know, you're guilty by association. Eve is real, right? so lets get with the real punishment that needs to be dished out to the real arrogant wankers that think they're above/beyond eve's T&C/EULA. Tho, that would require CCP to grow a pair, which i realy dont think will happen any time soon.
So many extremely keen hi-sec miners have been burned for this, but that's just fine, cause they were poor and unrepresented. EVE is Real!
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Tuggboat
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
4
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 00:09:00 -
[33] - Quote
I think there should a lever on the planetary Interaction Command center that we have to push down to pump out the stuff, You knowpush it down and watch it slowly rise back up. I'd also like to take repeat fire off of guns and the quote button out of the forums, WHile were at it Cut and Paste just has to go too. and that moongoo, Is there some way we can make every alliance member push down the moon goo lever too without remote control which reminds me, Can we remove remote mfg invention, PI and trade skills also?
Oh yeah, I support the Apostles view.
Oh yeah this autopilot thingie. either warp to zero or can it. |
Kitty McKitty
In Praise Of Shadows
269
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 00:12:00 -
[34] - Quote
I think this Goonswarm Federation take the game a bit too seriously. GÖÑ Haviing your portrait painted here helps INTAKI Disabled Children GÖÑ |
Victoria Stecker
Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
1
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 00:18:00 -
[35] - Quote
The Apostle wrote:
But to threaten expulsion if you DO report is a totally different issue. That is NOT for a corp/alliance to say. EVER.
I believe you're playing the wrong game. This is EVE. Here's what that means:
Players can do literally anything that is not against the EULA. That includes theft, scams, griefing, etc.
Corporations can do literally anything that is not against the EULA. That includes telling their members how to conduct themselves if they wish to remain a part of the corp.
Now, botting is against the EULA. However, failing to report someone for botting is not. Therefore, it is entirely within a corporation or alliances rights to demand that its members not report bots. If the members have a problem with it, the solution is simple: Leave the corp.
This is EVE. Deal With ItGäó
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Brooks Puuntai
Nomadic Asylum
102
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 00:19:00 -
[36] - Quote
Maybe CCP should work to stop injection into the client and allow their game to be so easily botted. Before they start expecting pilots/corps/alliances to play space police for them. |
The Apostle
The Black Priests
114
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 00:30:00 -
[37] - Quote
Quote:Corporations can do literally anything that is not against the EULA. That includes telling their members how to conduct themselves if they wish to remain a part of the corp. No. I do not subscribe to this. The EULA is OUTSIDE of a corp/alliances responsibility.
Quote:Now, botting is against the EULA. However, failing to report someone for botting is not. Therefore, it is entirely within a corporation or alliances rights to demand that its members not report bots. If the members have a problem with it, the solution is simple: Leave the corp. The EULA must be a non-negotiable. If you do not agree with that then my words are wasted on explanation.
But condoning, promoting, securing and actively (and publically) protecting any activity that deliberately BREACHES the EULA as ALLIANCE POLICY must be stomped on. Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo! |
Zirse
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
75
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 00:37:00 -
[38] - Quote
The Apostle wrote:Quote: I think CCP should take rules against botting further:
If you know about someone botting, and there is evidence to prove which you knew but never acted - you're also up for the same ban as the person whom was actualy using the bot.
in real life, if you know someone who held up a bank or a grocery store and you do not let the authorities know, you're guilty by association.
Eve is real, right? so lets get with the real punishment that needs to be dished out to the real arrogant wankers that think they're above/beyond eve's T&C/EULA. Tho, that would require CCP to grow a pair, which i realy dont think will happen any time soon.
Bingo. Someone gets it. This pro-bot "laugh-in-your-face" stance by Goons needs to be hard-lined by CCP. Right now. The Goons on the CSM, OUR ELECTED (apparently) player representatives, need to be booted out. Period.
Your tears are delicious.
In a game where everyone bots; the only thing left to do is bot. Seriously, the onus is on CCP to fix the game, not the players.
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Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
56
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 00:40:00 -
[39] - Quote
Naglfar Nidhoggur wrote:If Goon A report's Goon B's botting activity and KEEPS HIS MOUTH SHUT then how does anyone know that he reported Goon B?
Bot's are a "security" issue now. Who is on the security team? You answer that, and you'll have an answer to your question. We want breast augmentations and sluttier clothing in the NeX! |
Pr1ncess Alia
Perkone Caldari State
20
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 00:55:00 -
[40] - Quote
Goons want to destroy your game. Their game however? Well that's a whole different story.
mittens being CSM chair would be an absolute tragedy if the CSM wasn't a laughing stock of a PR stunt.
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Bootleg Jack
Potters Field
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 00:57:00 -
[41] - Quote
IMHO OP read too much into this. To me it reads "we have rules about harming other members, however in some cases...".
There is obviously a fine line between keeping your members from blowing each other up/reporting bullshit and preventing your members from embarressing your corp.
In UO I held a botter from a major guild for ransom in public and got paid, you don't want this to happen to your corp, I milked thier shame, lol [WAKA]s |
Jita Alt666
276
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 01:00:00 -
[42] - Quote
A point the Op needs to take on board:
In the past CCP has contacted alliance directors and ordered them to bring their alliance into line when individual members of that alliance have gone against the EULA examples I can remember from the goons include: Posting of common world war 2 german phrases in local. General Spam in local. Creation of phallic shaped can arrangements in space. Naming of Stations with names that are not approved by CCP. In all these cases a CCP GM contacted either a director or alliance CEO and insisted that individual police the alliance and limit the rule breaking.
Here is the part of the relevant topic you excluded to copy/paste from Eve news24:
Quote: And by allowing one, well-justified blue-shooting case to go unpunished we basically open the portal to a hellish other-dimension of horror and chaos which ends with GÇ£hilariouslyGÇ¥ wrecked amok freighters on the VFK undock. Which sounds good but involves a lot of paperwork.
The correct approach is to speak to your CEO, who will submit form 240a together with the mandatory handling fee of 150 million ISK to the overworked diplomacy team, who will curse me loudly for putting that in there then go about finding a solution. Trust me: they have his number on speed-dial by now.
This is essentially the alliance saying: don't shoot your mouth off, don't cause internal ructions that damage us all, pass to the diplomats who will sort it out. While you may disagree with that, CCP have set a precedent, if they see that the Goons directors are doing their bit to limit the rule breaking they will be happy. |
The Apostle
The Black Priests
115
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 01:01:00 -
[43] - Quote
Quote:Your tears are delicious.
In a game where everyone bots; the only thing left to do is bot. Seriously, the onus is on CCP to fix the game, not the players. Man, you're right. I'm crying my eyes out!!
It's because I am laughing SOOOOOO hard at your "CCP should fix this" comment. How quaint.
You know, people that think botting is stoppable by code are seriously kidding themselves, and I mean seriously kidding themselves.
Botting can only be stopped by players actively reporting them. It's YOUR game being ruined.
This is the issue at hand. Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo! |
Renan Ruivo
Hipernova Vera Cruz Alliance
36
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 01:02:00 -
[44] - Quote
Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah waaaah waaaah waaaah waaaah waaaah waaaah ..........
the **** should i care. Sometimes the only difference between a budding genius and a blooming idiot is where they chose to take a stand. |
The Apostle
The Black Priests
115
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 01:06:00 -
[45] - Quote
Jita Alt666 wrote:A point the Op needs to take on board:
This is essentially the alliance saying: don't shoot your mouth off, don't cause internal ructions that damage us all, pass to the diplomats who will sort it out. While you may disagree with that, CCP have set a precedent, if they see that the Goons directors are doing their bit to limit the rule breaking they will be happy.
Fair comment and point is taken on board.
Except....
I'm not talking about blue shootings am I?
Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo! |
The Apostle
The Black Priests
115
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 01:07:00 -
[46] - Quote
Renan Ruivo wrote:Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah waaaah waaaah waaaah waaaah waaaah waaaah ..........
the **** should i care. Cared enough to tell us you don't care. Much appreciated.
As you were.
Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo! |
Jita Alt666
276
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 01:09:00 -
[47] - Quote
The Apostle wrote:Jita Alt666 wrote:A point the Op needs to take on board:
This is essentially the alliance saying: don't shoot your mouth off, don't cause internal ructions that damage us all, pass to the diplomats who will sort it out. While you may disagree with that, CCP have set a precedent, if they see that the Goons directors are doing their bit to limit the rule breaking they will be happy. Fair comment and point is taken on board. Except.... I'm not talking about blue shootings am I?
shoot your mouth off, does not mean shooting with lasers...
|
Pr1ncess Alia
Perkone Caldari State
20
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 01:12:00 -
[48] - Quote
Bootleg Jack wrote:IMHO OP read too much into this. To me it reads "we have rules about harming other members, however in some cases...". There is obviously a fine line between keeping your members from blowing each other up/reporting bullshit and preventing your members from embarressing your corp. In UO I held a botter from a major guild for ransom in public and got paid, you don't want this to happen to your corp, I milked thier shame, lol [WAKA]s
I don't think he reads too much into it, just that he mistakes this for being news.
It has nothing to do with embarrassing people, it's about getting hit in the real world pocketbook, something the alliance leaders DEFINITELY do not want. 0.0 is all about the RMT. For instance, players frequently associated with the continent of Asia have been systematically milking 0.0 for the RMT business for almost 7 of the 8 years this game has been active.
It's no secret and CCP doesn't do anything about it, because if they did it would impact them negatively. An active player is an active player and money in CCP's pocket. Impact to the game economy be damned, they'll never fix it at the expense of the effects on CCP's REAL WORLD economy.
Anyone that thinks otherwise is incredibly naive. The bigger the RMT business, the healthier eve online the business is. Sure the ingame economy takes a hit but nothing that it hasn't absorbed in the history of the server being online. CCP's efforts to stop the RMT trade is nothing but smoke and mirrors...
The only people that get busted are the buyers dumb enough to get busted. Next time around those people will buy from CCP instead, but CCP will never go after the dealers themselves.... that would be tantamount to shooting themselves in the foot. |
DarkAegix
Acetech Systems
55
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 01:15:00 -
[49] - Quote
Source? I'm not doubting you, it'd just take someone INCREDIBLY THICK to post an alliance update which condones botting that obviously. |
The Apostle
The Black Priests
115
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 01:16:00 -
[50] - Quote
Jita Alt666 wrote:The Apostle wrote:Jita Alt666 wrote:A point the Op needs to take on board:
This is essentially the alliance saying: don't shoot your mouth off, don't cause internal ructions that damage us all, pass to the diplomats who will sort it out. While you may disagree with that, CCP have set a precedent, if they see that the Goons directors are doing their bit to limit the rule breaking they will be happy. Fair comment and point is taken on board. Except.... I'm not talking about blue shootings am I? shoot your mouth off, does not mean shooting with lasers... Hey. Yer. Fair point again.
Except....
"don't cause internal ructions that damage us all" How? Reporting is anom and it's not discussed by CCP. Dare me to say Goons need to control who is/isn't reported? Why?
Either way, it's NOT their call. Ever.
As soon as any player reports a bot to another player he has removed the anonymity assured by reporting directly to CCP. Hence my absolute conviction that the process of reporting/not reporting bots is NOT and nor should it be, an alliance issue.
CCP need to make this very, very clear.
Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo! |
|
Simetraz
State War Academy Caldari State
66
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 01:17:00 -
[51] - Quote
Alright a little reality check.
First off killing an alliance mate can ony be authorized by the ruling councel of the alliance or the ceo/director of the person being targeted..
Nothing weird there pretty normal practice actually. Someone breaks the rules you report them to leadership and hope they tell you to pod them.
As far as the bit that states if you report any member of GSF for botting you will be kicked. Well all things considered, that in of itself is actually within their rights. (CCP does not enforce corp or alliances rules in regaurds to recruiting or removal of members) As for the rest, well that is up to CCP.
All things considered if the OP was really concerned they should have sent the message to CCP under a petition and let them figure it out.
Instead they posted it on the forums. To that I say TROLL........
Capitals (Balancing and Roles) |
The Apostle
The Black Priests
115
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 01:18:00 -
[52] - Quote
DarkAegix wrote:Source? I'm not doubting you, it'd just take someone INCREDIBLY THICK to post an alliance update which condones botting that obviously. They did and it's legit.
Got access to Goon forums? Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo! |
Renan Ruivo
Hipernova Vera Cruz Alliance
37
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 01:29:00 -
[53] - Quote
The Apostle wrote:Renan Ruivo wrote:Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah waaaah waaaah waaaah waaaah waaaah waaaah ..........
the **** should i care. Cared enough to tell us you don't care. Much appreciated. As you were.
Not exactly. I asked why should i care.
If someone bothered to post something like that, is because he/she thinks that someone other then him/herself ought to care.
But in the end its nothing but whining and crying and moaning because nobody is going to do jackshit about it. CSM/Goon leader doesn't care that this **** goes public so why the hell should I. It might be unethical on his part but he is NOT breaking any EULA.
Botting = breaking the EULA. Seeing/knowing about someone who BOTS and not REPORT = No grounds for legal action.
Notice even how he was carefull enough not to make any direct mention to botting whatsoever. Dude understands the legal system and he does his best to bend the rules thats why people call him a jerk. He bends, but he doesn't breaks.. so anyone who complains is just doing useless whining because nothing is going to be done about it.
To the OP. C'est la vie. Sometimes the only difference between a budding genius and a blooming idiot is where they chose to take a stand. |
The Apostle
The Black Priests
115
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 01:29:00 -
[54] - Quote
Quote:As far as the bit that states if you report any member of GSF for botting you will be kicked. Well all things considered, that in of itself is actually within their rights. (CCP does not enforce corp or alliances rules in regaurds to recruiting or removal of members) As for the rest, well that is up to CCP. So you are fine that deliberate, publicised condoning of EULA breaches is kosher and any act to report said EULA breach will get you booted?
Quote: All things considered if the OP was really concerned they should have sent the message to CCP under a petition and let them figure it out.
I seriously hope they do! The source is a matter of public record. As OP what I want to know is whether this is a clear and deliberate condoning and protection of players that breach the EULA.
This forum has been done to death regardng bots and the oppostion to it is pronounced and unequivocable. To encourage EULA breaches from an alliance that has CSM members smacks of hypocrisy and tells every player that botting is fine - Mittani's boys said so and CCP did nought about it!
Quote:To that I say TROLL........ To that I say LOL
Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo! |
The Apostle
The Black Priests
115
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 01:33:00 -
[55] - Quote
Quote:Notice even how he was carefull enough not to make any direct mention to botting whatsoever. Dude understands the legal system and he does his best to bend the rules thats why people call him a jerk. He bends, but he doesn't breaks.. so anyone who complains is just doing useless whining because nothing is going to be done about it. Very true. The wording makes it very easy to mitigate the intent of the content. And many here are trying to do exactly that. Go figure.
Quote:To the OP. C'est la vie. Yeah. I know. [sad panda face] Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo! |
Jita Alt666
276
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 01:35:00 -
[56] - Quote
The Apostle wrote:Jita Alt666 wrote:The Apostle wrote:Jita Alt666 wrote:A point the Op needs to take on board:
This is essentially the alliance saying: don't shoot your mouth off, don't cause internal ructions that damage us all, pass to the diplomats who will sort it out. While you may disagree with that, CCP have set a precedent, if they see that the Goons directors are doing their bit to limit the rule breaking they will be happy. Fair comment and point is taken on board. Except.... I'm not talking about blue shootings am I? shoot your mouth off, does not mean shooting with lasers... Hey. Yer. Fair point again. Except.... "don't cause internal ructions that damage us all" How? Reporting is anom and it's not discussed by CCP. Dare me to say Goons need to control who is/isn't reported? Why? Either way, it's NOT their call. Ever. As soon as any player reports a bot to another player he has removed the anonymity assured by reporting directly to CCP. Hence my absolute conviction that the process of reporting/not reporting bots is NOT and nor should it be, an alliance issue. CCP need to make this very, very clear.
I have a couple of PVE alts that when the need arises rat (anomalies - pre nerf) in a quiet system in a quiet region. The longest run I have ever done is only about 12 hours (I could not handle doing more than that). During that time only 3 other people came into the system. I didn't respond to convos due to duel boxing eve and playing Civ V on my third screen. If either of those alts had been reported for supposedly botting - I would know who did it.
In my post above (#42) I sight examples of CCP making rule enforcement an alliance issue. The precedent has been set, and while you personally disagree, the precedent was set by CCP. So any alliance has the ability to say to their members - tell us about rule breakers and we will sort them out.
I personally believe what will happen with this in regards to goons is that they will sacrifice a couple of low level members who are obviously botting. Reporting the to CCP and saying to CCP; look we goons are doing our bit to curb this rule breaking, while turning a blind eye to others who are more significant players.
|
Renan Ruivo
Hipernova Vera Cruz Alliance
37
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 01:40:00 -
[57] - Quote
The Apostle wrote:Quote:As far as the bit that states if you report any member of GSF for botting you will be kicked. Well all things considered, that in of itself is actually within their rights. (CCP does not enforce corp or alliances rules in regaurds to recruiting or removal of members) As for the rest, well that is up to CCP. So you are fine that deliberate, publicised condoning of EULA breaches is kosher and any act to report said EULA breach will get you booted? Quote: All things considered if the OP was really concerned they should have sent the message to CCP under a petition and let them figure it out.
I seriously hope they do! The source is a matter of public record. As OP what I want to know is whether this is a clear and deliberate condoning and protection of players that breach the EULA. This forum has been done to death regardng bots and the oppostion to it is pronounced and unequivocable. To encourage EULA breaches from an alliance that has CSM members smacks of hypocrisy and tells every player that botting is fine - Mittani's boys said so and CCP did nought about it! Quote:To that I say TROLL........ To that I say LOL
There is nothing on the EULA that states that i am required to report a bot when i see one and there never will be because recognizing a BOT is by default done entirely by the use of circumstantial evidence. So you cannot punish me because i haven't reported someone who i can't prove with 100% certainty is a bot.
And since nobody is OBLIGED to report a bot, they can't punish anyone from strongly suggesting that someone else under his command doesnt do it either. Reporting a bot is your right? Well, so is speaking in local chat... and nobody does jackshit about alliance leaders who kick members for speaking in local chat.
AND BY THE WAY, that makes me as pissed as the next guy. Botting may be bad, but not reporting on a bot when you see one is worse. Let alone threatening those who want to. Sometimes the only difference between a budding genius and a blooming idiot is where they chose to take a stand. |
Zverofaust
Ascetic Virtues
14
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 01:40:00 -
[58] - Quote
Why is that EVERY TIME I see someone CAPITALIZING every few words in their post, I can ALWAYS expect that post to be full of CONSPIRACY THEORIES and OVER-DRAMATIZATIONS?
What is it that makes these kinds of PARANOID NUTJOBS type in this way? Has there ever been any SCIENTIFIC STUDY on the phenomenon? |
Nephilius
Pillage and Plunder Salvage Co.
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 01:58:00 -
[59] - Quote
This whole situation reminds me of something Lewis Black said...
Basically, the last eight years, I feel, the Republicans stood around farting; and the Democrats went "Ooh, let me smell it."
You can replace Republicans with Goons and Democrats with CCP.
Just one more instance of how things are broke and won't get fixed. Make CQ and WiS an option, not a must.-á I don't play EvE for the toon spinning. |
The Apostle
The Black Priests
116
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 01:59:00 -
[60] - Quote
Quote:There is nothing on the EULA that states that i am required to report a bot when i see one and there never will be because recognizing a BOT is by default done entirely by the use of circumstantial evidence. So you cannot punish me because i haven't reported someone who i can't prove with 100% certainty is a bot. No. And I have said this. Whether to report/not report is up to the individual. Being told not to report is an entirely different matter.
Quote:And since nobody is OBLIGED to report a bot, they can't punish anyone from strongly suggesting that someone else under his command doesnt do it either. Reporting a bot is your right? Well, so is speaking in local chat... and nobody does jackshit about alliance leaders who kick members for speaking in local chat. Except that talking in local chat is allowed under the EULA.
Botting is not.
To TL;DR my entire rant. I am asking that CCP consider making the promotion/protection/condoning of botting as a breach of the EULA. To attempt to circumvent the individuals bot reporting rights in the interests of any corp/alliance (not just Goons) must be deemed as inappropriate and bannable.
The EULA is a contract between you and CCP. Not with the alliance/corp the member is in. An alliance cannot and should not promote/encourage breaches of the EULA. It is not in their domain.
Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo! |
|
Nyio
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
132
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 02:02:00 -
[61] - Quote
I'll just link this here. Features & Ideas Discussion: Agent Finder, Black Holes Needs a banner here.. |
Keno Skir
4
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 02:04:00 -
[62] - Quote
I'd also like to hear CCP's thoughts on this specific problem. It seems incredibly un-productive to have the head of the CSM as a bot supporting cheater The letter does clearly state that botters are known of and protected by the Goon management, which should surely be an offence.. The Apostle-á :-á I want a kangeroo Captain Kirk-á :-á Silly Austrians Sarmatiko-á-á-á-á :-á Let me guess: you're from US? Captain Kirk-á :-á Yeah Riverside IA - why? |
Jita Alt666
278
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 02:05:00 -
[63] - Quote
I do not believe that the Goon propaganda piece is promoting/protecting/condoning botting. The method in which they are attempting to limit this particular breach of the EULA is in-house rather than player directly to CCP. While you will assert it is not in their domain. CCP have previously indicated that is in their domain. |
Headerman
Quovis Shadow of xXDEATHXx
130
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 02:06:00 -
[64] - Quote
Renan Ruivo wrote:The Apostle wrote:Quote:As far as the bit that states if you report any member of GSF for botting you will be kicked. Well all things considered, that in of itself is actually within their rights. (CCP does not enforce corp or alliances rules in regaurds to recruiting or removal of members) As for the rest, well that is up to CCP. So you are fine that deliberate, publicised condoning of EULA breaches is kosher and any act to report said EULA breach will get you booted? Quote: All things considered if the OP was really concerned they should have sent the message to CCP under a petition and let them figure it out.
I seriously hope they do! The source is a matter of public record. As OP what I want to know is whether this is a clear and deliberate condoning and protection of players that breach the EULA. This forum has been done to death regardng bots and the oppostion to it is pronounced and unequivocable. To encourage EULA breaches from an alliance that has CSM members smacks of hypocrisy and tells every player that botting is fine - Mittani's boys said so and CCP did nought about it! Quote:To that I say TROLL........ To that I say LOL There is nothing on the EULA that states that i am required to report a bot when i see one and there never will be because recognizing a BOT is by default done entirely by the use of circumstantial evidence. So you cannot punish me because i haven't reported someone who i can't prove with 100% certainty is a bot. And since nobody is OBLIGED to report a bot, they can't punish anyone from strongly suggesting that someone else under his command doesnt do it either. Reporting a bot is your right? Well, so is speaking in local chat... and nobody does jackshit about alliance leaders who kick members for speaking in local chat. AND BY THE WAY, that makes me as pissed as the next guy. Botting may be bad, but not reporting on a bot when you see one is worse. Let alone threatening those who want to.
Unfortunately your logic is pretty flawed.
The EULA states something about 'you are not allowed to run bots/macros etc', yes?
If CCp had effective anti botting mechanics in place, then the EULA would state something similar to 'Botting/scripting/macros is a bannable offense and you will be caught'
So from the wording of the existing EULA AND the continuation of bots from Goons (and others), it should be clearly implied that CCP needs a lead to work from. Realisticly you can appreciate this is the truth with the amount of work going on there all the time, limited resources etc etc.
In a sense, players ARE obligated to report botting. Just because there is no threat to players who spot a bot and not report it doesn't mean it's OK to not report bots.
Moving on from that, has there been any bot banned at all from no petition raised about it?
Has CCP banned bots from no leads what so ever? Think about it.
Lastly, bots in high sec are pretty easy to spot and report, i am sure many peopel do that all the time in high sec.
Not the case in Deklein.
No one else is around there except other goons. You could say the goons are using their numbers and sov as a cover or buffer zone to permit botting, and they are permitting it. [img]http://i53.tinypic.com/bebnf8.jpg[/img] |
Apollo-Moor
xHELLonEARTHx Rookie Empire
9
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 02:14:00 -
[65] - Quote
Mara Tessidar wrote:I missed the part where it said "Don't report bots." Can you bold it for me?
***** plz.. Really?
Ya'll whole corp is a fuckin joke.. LOL |
The Apostle
The Black Priests
116
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 02:31:00 -
[66] - Quote
Quote:In a sense, players ARE obligated to report botting. Just because there is no threat to players who spot a bot and not report it doesn't mean it's OK to not report bots. And this is why the reporting of bots must be kept inviolate from alliance/corp policy and alliance/corps attempting to interfere in reporting/non-reporting of EULA breaches should also be guilty as charged.
(and I know personally that CCP has set a precedent on this - unfortunately I cannot discuss how I know).
Quote:Moving on from that, has there been any bot banned at all from no petition raised about it?
Has CCP banned bots from no leads what so ever? Think about it. Well, we simply wouldn't know would we? And this point has been raised. If CCP actively do a "name and shame" of bots then we'd all be the better placated. If it's seen to be getting addressed, regularly and with quotable ban details/numbers.... Hmmm. I wish.
But it still flies in the face of even bothering to stop bots when large alliances decide to publically advocate and protect botting. For it to be from an alliance where it's head is also the CSM head.... Shameful. (I accept they are not the only ones botting, what I don't accept is how they reportedly deal/not deal with it "inhouse".)
That is clearly sending the wrong message, in and out of game. Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo! |
Mara Tessidar
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
59
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 02:59:00 -
[67] - Quote
TL;DR OP selectively cannibalized what Endie said in his announcement to try and smear goons
"Blue-On-Blue Violence
One of our illustrious members (let's call him "Ibertizzle") keeps losing Tengus to Russians and French people. This is a sensitive - even a touchy - subject, so let me say that while he is, indeed, a keen ratter - a very keen ratter if we are honest - we have one rule in Goonswarm: we don't **** other goons. Oh and we don't play cop for CCP in their own game by reporting or petitioning goons, either: that's Darius Johnson's job. So two rules. And there's the one about how nobody mentions the Mittani's occasional chin tuft; and the localised No Digis or DBRBs rules. I could go on. Ok, on reflection we live in a hidebound and overly legislated nanny state. But we definitely don't **** goons. Now I know that "Ibertizzle" has probably just been insulting people constantly in local and challenging them to 1 v 7s at the sun. Which is fine: honour demanded that he repeatedly die for his offences.
But if it were the case that he had been ratting just a little too exuberantly for peoples' liking, or if he had offended them by consistently ignoring their conversation requests for a brief window of, say, seventeen or eighteen hours, for instance, then it would be goon-******* to report him or to kill him. This will land you and your corp in trouble as all we know is that someone shot blues. And by allowing one, well-justified blue-shooting case to go unpunished we basically open the portal to a hellish other-dimension of horror and chaos which ends with "hilariously" wrecked amok freighters on the VFK undock. Which sounds good but involves a lot of paperwork.
The correct approach is to speak to your CEO, who will submit form 240a together with the mandatory handling fee of 150 million ISK to the overworked diplomacy team, who will curse me loudly for putting that in there then go about finding a solution. Trust me: they have his number on speed-dial by now." Notify: You are eaten by the Whumpus |
The Apostle
The Black Priests
117
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 03:11:00 -
[68] - Quote
Mara Tessidar wrote:TL;DR OP selectively cannibalized what Endie said in his announcement to try and smear goons
"Blue-On-Blue Violence
One of our illustrious members (let's call him "Ibertizzle") keeps losing Tengus to Russians and French people. This is a sensitive - even a touchy - subject, so let me say that while he is, indeed, a keen ratter - a very keen ratter if we are honest - we have one rule in Goonswarm: we don't **** other goons. Oh and we don't play cop for CCP in their own game by reporting or petitioning goons, either: that's Darius Johnson's job. So two rules. And there's the one about how nobody mentions the Mittani's occasional chin tuft; and the localised No Digis or DBRBs rules. I could go on. Ok, on reflection we live in a hidebound and overly legislated nanny state. But we definitely don't **** goons. Now I know that "Ibertizzle" has probably just been insulting people constantly in local and challenging them to 1 v 7s at the sun. Which is fine: honour demanded that he repeatedly die for his offences.
But if it were the case that he had been ratting just a little too exuberantly for peoples' liking, or if he had offended them by consistently ignoring their conversation requests for a brief window of, say, seventeen or eighteen hours, for instance, then it would be goon-******* to report him or to kill him. This will land you and your corp in trouble as all we know is that someone shot blues. And by allowing one, well-justified blue-shooting case to go unpunished we basically open the portal to a hellish other-dimension of horror and chaos which ends with "hilariously" wrecked amok freighters on the VFK undock. Which sounds good but involves a lot of paperwork.
The correct approach is to speak to your CEO, who will submit form 240a together with the mandatory handling fee of 150 million ISK to the overworked diplomacy team, who will curse me loudly for putting that in there then go about finding a solution. Trust me: they have his number on speed-dial by now."
So which bit didn't get quoted and which bit "exonerates" the Goons.
Now go back and tell me in a "TL;DR" what I'm requesting?
bah. Forget it. Just noticed you're a Goon. Nuff said..... Give Mittens a kiss for me yeah? Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo! |
Mara Tessidar
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
59
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 03:13:00 -
[69] - Quote
You just noticed I have "Goonswarm Federation" under my name? Notify: You are eaten by the Whumpus |
The Apostle
The Black Priests
117
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 03:25:00 -
[70] - Quote
Mara Tessidar wrote:You just noticed I have "Goonswarm Federation" under my name? Yes. I generally do not judge a persons commentary by who they are in game so I do not look.
In your case, given the response, I did.
Players may be tethered by alliance/corp policy in-game, they are not tethered out-of-game because of alt posting.
You on the other hand cannot agreee with me in public even if you did agree with me - wearing your Goon badge precludes your objectivity. i.e. It's a waste of time trying to argue the point with you.
I'm not after more Goon opinion/rhetoric, I'm after opinion from NOT Goons. Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo! |
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Psychophantic
37
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 03:40:00 -
[71] - Quote
Mara Tessidar wrote:You just noticed I have "Goonswarm Federation" under my name?
I didn't notice either because I'm using the Sylish script for these pages.
But now your earlier comments make perfect sense.
|
Ispia Jaydrath
Reib Autonomous Industries
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 03:43:00 -
[72] - Quote
Hee hee, how adorable!
CCP has turned a blind eye to botting, including reported bots, for years. If they don't care enough to enforce the EULA, there's no reason for me to care care if somebody breaks it. All the EULA does now is create an uneven playing field between people who bot and people who are scared to. |
Bubanni
SniggWaffe
2
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 03:49:00 -
[73] - Quote
Test alliance does the same thing, one time a old corp mate of mine found a botter and killed him... it turned out to be leetcheese, a military director of test at the time, someone also reported him... which resulted in the guy loosing about... idk 5-15 bil...
Regardless to say, test forced the corp to kick him...
So yeah, its common practice within that coalition that your not allowed to kill or report botters if they are blue |
Magnus Orin
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
35
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 03:49:00 -
[74] - Quote
I dont bot, nor do I support it, but is it every ******* corp or alliance's job to police this game?
No. It's CCP's.
That's all I get from the statement in the OP. |
The Apostle
The Black Priests
118
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 04:04:00 -
[75] - Quote
Quote:I dont bot, nor do I support it, but is it every ******* corp or alliance's job to police this game?
No. It's CCP's.
That's all I get from the statement in the OP. Lol. To be expected.
What I said is that it's is NOT the alliance/corps job to police the game. The EULA is a contract between CCP and the individual and for an alliance/corp to dictate how the reporting of EULA breaches are handled is way outside the scope of the alliance/corp.
Let me put it this way, if an alliance (as a whole) was given a 1 week ban for knowingly harbouring/supporting a botter, how fast would the alliance say IT'S NOT OUR RESPONSIBILITY!!!
And yet, same alliance has taken it upon themselves to dictate EULA breach policy to it's members. So is it an alliance responsibility or not?
Either they are responsible for bot reporting/management and must pay the penalty (as an alliance) if caught or they are not and must allow the individual do their thing without fear of retribution due to corp policy if they do.
Can't have it both ways.
I just want to see bots out of game. I also want to see blatant promotion of bots and the idea that it's not our problem removed too!
It IS our problem and CSM members of all people should be leading the charge - not laughing at it. Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo! |
The Apostle
The Black Priests
118
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 04:08:00 -
[76] - Quote
Quote:Test alliance does the same thing, one time a old corp mate of mine found a botter and killed him... it turned out to be leetcheese, a military director of test at the time, someone also reported him... which resulted in the guy loosing about... idk 5-15 bil...
Regardless to say, test forced the corp to kick him...
So yeah, its common practice within that coalition that your not allowed to kill or report botters if they are blue Speaking of DekCO, FA has a clear policy of killing bots and I've seen them do it.
They do not have a policy on whether members can report/not report. Nor does Test.
"Common practise" versus "shouting it out and enforcing no-reporting in public" are 2 different things.
Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo! |
Headerman
Quovis Shadow of xXDEATHXx
130
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 04:16:00 -
[77] - Quote
Yes, what is Fatal Ascention doing about Dec Co's bots? Ignoring them i bet.
"Fight the honourable fight! And let OUR bots be the only ones flying!"
It would take balls for someone from FA, even a highsec neut to say 'i am from FA, and we have submitted x amount of petitions against Cec Co's bots and they have been removed'. But i am guessing we will never know. [img]http://i53.tinypic.com/bebnf8.jpg[/img] |
The Apostle
The Black Priests
118
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 04:22:00 -
[78] - Quote
Quote:Yes, what is Fatal Ascention doing about Dec Co's bots? Ignoring them i bet. QFT.
FA spends a lot of time in Goon space and Zagdul is not going to **** off Mittens by killing his bots regardless of his personal beliefs (which I do not think have changed).
Their policy as best I've seen, is enforced only in FA space. The policy of kill/not kill is not shared across DekCo. Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo! |
pussnheels
Vintage heavy industries
71
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 04:24:00 -
[79] - Quote
LMAO look at all those goons and their puppies in denial
This isn't really new is it , we all know Goons leadership and other alliance leadership are abunch of cheaters and liars
Maybe it is about time CCP starts to punish the corporations and alliances of whom those re offending botters belong to or is linked with , with some serious bans I do not agree with what you are saying , but i will defend to the death your right to say it...... Voltaire |
Ispia Jaydrath
Reib Autonomous Industries
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 04:25:00 -
[80] - Quote
The Apostle wrote:Either they are responsible for bot reporting/management and must pay the penalty (as an alliance) if caught or they are not and must allow the individual do their thing without fear of retribution due to corp policy if they do.
Can't have it both ways.
Do I really need to link false dichotomy here? Really?
There's nothing in the EULA or TOS saying that you can't tell others not to report rulebreakers, or that you can't punish people who do. |
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The Apostle
The Black Priests
119
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 04:51:00 -
[81] - Quote
Quote:Do I really need to link false dichotomy here? Really? Yes you do. Read it. There is no dichotomy let alone a false one.
I have presented several points on this topic. But it comes down to the one fundamental question.
WHY do Goons need to have their own bots reported to the heirarchy? Why can't an ordinary Goon report a bot he finds without threat of expulsion? Why, given that it can be done anonymously anyway, is it even declared as policy?
Somebody in Goons hates bots, has acted and now Goons are all over it. Why?
Quote:There's nothing in the EULA or TOS saying that you can't tell others not to report rulebreakers, or that you can't punish people who do. So an absence of law makes it right?
Read my posts again (after you read the Dichotomy wiki).
I am ASKING for it to be included in the EULA and this is the perfect reason it should be. CCP needs to clarify a position here. Goons may have said "report to us and we'll deal". They said "don't report to CCP". Why?
It's sending the wrong message? Join Goons and you won't get reported to CCP but Mittens will decide your fate if he so choses!
Which might bring us to "A Dichotomy" if there is one.
Is an alliance (if they declare a policy of "report to diplo") now considered responsible for bots? If so then the alliance takes a hit if they're found with bots.
Or they are not responsible and must remain so. Leave it to the player report feature and CCP. Don't interfere in the process. Simple. Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo! |
Simetraz
State War Academy Caldari State
66
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 05:04:00 -
[82] - Quote
The Apostle wrote:
Either they are responsible for bot reporting/management and must pay the penalty (as an alliance) if caught or they are not and must allow the individual do their thing without fear of retribution due to corp policy if they do.
Alliances are not responsible for the actions of an individual. You can't ban a 100 or 6000 person alliance because a Corporation in that alliance has a botter.
You can ban the botter.
Yes GSF leadership is once again showing there poor character, no surprise there.
But nobody can force you to do anything in this game. IF your alliance has a no report policy you have 3 choices. 1. Leave the alliance (and report it to CCP) 2. Don't look for botters so you aren't put in that position. (you would surprised how many people turn a blind eye) 3. Do what the alliance leaders say.
If you want GSF banned as a whole it is not going to happen and they are not the only alliance with botters. End of story.
Capitals (Balancing and Roles) |
mkint
83
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 05:12:00 -
[83] - Quote
Weren't you defending Goon botting a few days ago? I made the claim that it's logical to assume that MIttens finances his life style not from being a retired lawyer (he's like how old? 15?) but from his RMT empire. And the assumption follows, that since in the past year CCP has made arbitrary game design decisions that actively reduce their competition/increase Goons' RMT profits, that a few key devs are in the pocket of the Goons.
edit: and unless Sreegs is actively cheating for his old buddies, reporting botters is anonymous. And if Sreegs is actively cheating and you get banned for your anonymous report, the rest of EVE needs to know. |
Zirse
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
75
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 05:27:00 -
[84] - Quote
mkint wrote:Weren't you defending Goon botting a few days ago? I made the claim that it's logical to assume that MIttens finances his life style not from being a retired lawyer (he's like how old? 15?) but from his RMT empire. And the assumption follows, that since in the past year CCP has made arbitrary game design decisions that actively reduce their competition/increase Goons' RMT profits, that a few key devs are in the pocket of the Goons.
edit: and unless Sreegs is actively cheating for his old buddies, reporting botters is anonymous. And if Sreegs is actively cheating and you get banned for your anonymous report, the rest of EVE needs to know.
That was the biggest facepalm I've done in a while.
There are people that RMT in every alliance, but there's no way you couldn't lead anything but a minimum wage life on EVE. You expect paid employees of CCP to risk their jobs by helping out some ex-alliance friends for what would be the equivalent of a few cheeseburgers now and again? |
Apollo-Moor
xHELLonEARTHx Rookie Empire
9
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 05:32:00 -
[85] - Quote
Simetraz wrote:The Apostle wrote:
Either they are responsible for bot reporting/management and must pay the penalty (as an alliance) if caught or they are not and must allow the individual do their thing without fear of retribution due to corp policy if they do.
Alliances are not responsible for the actions of an individual. You can't ban a 100 or 6000 person alliance because a Corporation in that alliance has a botter. You can ban the botter. Yes GSF leadership is once again showing there poor character, no surprise there. But nobody can force you to do anything in this game. IF your alliance has a no report policy you have 3 choices. 1. Leave the alliance (and report it to CCP) 2. Don't look for botters so you aren't put in that position. (you would surprised how many people turn a blind eye) 3. Do what the alliance leaders say. If you want GSF banned as a whole it is not going to happen and they are not the only alliance with botters. End of story.
Let's leave no room for error here. For there is an Option 4 and the best one in my opinion. Stay in the Alliance in this case GSF and report the **** out of every botter you see. You are perfectly protected and don't need to say a damn thing to your corrupt ass leadership..
GO HARD! |
The Apostle
The Black Priests
119
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 05:32:00 -
[86] - Quote
Quote:Alliances are not responsible for the actions of an individual. Correct.
Except Goons HAVE assumed responsibility by saying "Thou shalt only report to thy leadership". Since when did Goons (or anyone) start accepting responsibility for actions against EULA violations?
They are VERY quick to say it's CCP's problem ("we're not cops for CCP") but disallow CCP intervention as a policy. Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo! |
Apollo-Moor
xHELLonEARTHx Rookie Empire
9
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 05:35:00 -
[87] - Quote
The Apostle wrote:Quote:Alliances are not responsible for the actions of an individual. Correct. Except Goons HAVE assumed responsibility by saying "Thou shalt only report to thy leadership". Since when did Goons (or anyone) start accepting responsibility for actions against EULA violations? They are VERY quick to say it's CCP's problem ("we're not cops for CCP") but disallow CCP intervention as a policy.
I don't know how many cards out of the 52 Goons have left to pull.. LmAo
This post is TRUE!
|
Mara Tessidar
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
61
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 05:37:00 -
[88] - Quote
All we've established in this thread is that Mittens is an evil 15-year-old former lawyer running a vast botting empire to fuel his RMT activities which he in turn lives off of in a lavish lifestyle somewhere in the Midwest South America. Notify: You are eaten by the Whumpus
http://goo.gl/uX5vk |
Simetraz
State War Academy Caldari State
66
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 05:42:00 -
[89] - Quote
The Apostle wrote:Quote:Alliances are not responsible for the actions of an individual. Correct. Except Goons HAVE assumed responsibility by saying "Thou shalt only report to thy leadership". Since when did Goons (or anyone) start accepting responsibility for actions against EULA violations? They are VERY quick to say it's CCP's problem ("we're not cops for CCP") but disallow CCP intervention as a policy.
Wrong A person or persons in the Goon leadership have stated, not the alliance. And once again it comes down to I am telling you go jump off that bridge. My response is, that is nice you first.
Now if player (A) reported player (B) for botting to director (C) Can any of the above be banned. NO
IT is all talk, and nothing more. CCP makes the determination if a person is a Botter not the players.
Capitals (Balancing and Roles) |
TheBadMan
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 05:44:00 -
[90] - Quote
Im soon to be kicked for shootin blues so ill share some sekrets: Only dumb goons bot in goonswarm fed. We teamed up with DRF ages ago and run big bot teams in the dronelands. You dont get invited to the drone botting crew until you are somewhat trusted so the problems here are more to do with the newbloods. Top tier goons do not bot because our ccp insiders have hooked up some great 'perks'. If you submit invention jobs in dek with a certain item as a part of the job you get a guaranteed bpc return x10. There is also a key combination you can press when in the refine screen which gives 600% returns. Only the illuminati get access to these though for obvious reasons. Mittens retired so early because his sweet RMT empire which has been funded by these perks. I heard he is on his way to owning a nice property in the Sechelles.
Really botting is nothing compared to whats really going on!! |
|
Simetraz
State War Academy Caldari State
66
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 05:50:00 -
[91] - Quote
TheBadMan wrote:Im soon to be kicked for shootin blues so ill share some sekrets: Only dumb goons bot in goonswarm fed. We teamed up with DRF ages ago and run big bot teams in the dronelands. You dont get invited to the drone botting crew until you are somewhat trusted so the problems here are more to do with the newbloods. Top tier goons do not bot because our ccp insiders have hooked up some great 'perks'. If you submit invention jobs in dek with a certain item as a part of the job you get a guaranteed bpc return x10. There is also a key combination you can press when in the refine screen which gives 600% returns. Only the illuminati get access to these though for obvious reasons. Mittens retired so early because his sweet RMT empire which has been funded by these perks. I heard he is on his way to owning a nice property in the Sechelles.
Really botting is nothing compared to whats really going on!!
ANd the best part about this whole thing is Goon's was the loudest screamers about BOB and there evil ways. And now you could say Goon's screamed cause BOB was in the way of the Goonies own projects.
DOn't forget to report all this to internal affairs.
Capitals (Balancing and Roles) |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Industrial Complex Cosmic Consortium
97
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 05:50:00 -
[92] - Quote
Apollo-Moor wrote:Simetraz wrote:IF your alliance has a no report policy you have 3 choices. 1. Leave the alliance (and report it to CCP) 2. Don't look for botters so you aren't put in that position. (you would surprised how many people turn a blind eye) 3. Do what the alliance leaders say.
Let's leave no room for error here. For there is an Option 4 and the best one in my opinion. Stay in the Alliance in this case GSF and report the **** out of every botter you see. You are perfectly protected and don't need to say a damn thing to your corrupt ass leadership.. GO HARD!
Which exposes Simetraz's false trichotomy :)
Of course, the assumption is that there is no way for the names of capsuleers using the report bot feature to fall into the hands of the CSM Chairman.
|
Apollo-Moor
xHELLonEARTHx Rookie Empire
9
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 05:51:00 -
[93] - Quote
Simetraz wrote:The Apostle wrote:Quote:Alliances are not responsible for the actions of an individual. Correct. Except Goons HAVE assumed responsibility by saying "Thou shalt only report to thy leadership". Since when did Goons (or anyone) start accepting responsibility for actions against EULA violations? They are VERY quick to say it's CCP's problem ("we're not cops for CCP") but disallow CCP intervention as a policy. Wrong A person or persons in the Goon leadership have stated, not the alliance. And once again it comes down to I am telling you go jump off that bridge. My response is, that is nice you first. Now if player (A) reported player (B) for botting to director (C) Can any of the above be banned. NO IT is all talk, and nothing more. CCP makes the determination if a person is a Botter not the players.
I know you can't be this blind or ignorant or just plain stupid. The point being made here is that the botter would not be reported. Saying "Come tell us and we'll handle it.." is bullshit. It will just be swept under the rug and nothing done about it except for a few Goon boardroom lulz..
They also give a sense in so many words that if you report them its like "snitching" to CCP. This is false, you aren't going to tell some Reds about how you're coming to take their space and how you plan on doing it. You are reporting someone who is abusing/cheating in the game. Its outside the spectrum of breaking your loyalty to the Alliance. It's getting heaters.out of a game that does not allow/accept this type of "cheating".. CCP gives you an inch you scabs take a mile and null with it.. |
Simetraz
State War Academy Caldari State
66
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 06:10:00 -
[94] - Quote
Apollo-Moor wrote:
I know you can't be this blind or ignorant or just plain stupid. The point being made here is that the botter would not be reported. Saying "Come tell us and we'll handle it.." is bullshit. It will just be swept under the rug and nothing done about it except for a few Goon boardroom lulz..
They also give a sense in so many words that if you report them its like "snitching" to CCP. This is false, you aren't going to tell some Reds about how you're coming to take their space and how you plan on doing it. You are reporting someone who is abusing/cheating in the game. Its outside the spectrum of breaking your loyalty to the Alliance. It's getting heaters.out of a game that does not allow/accept this type of "cheating".. CCP gives you an inch you scabs take a mile and null with it..
You need to reread my posts, you are obviously misinterpreting. Oh and I will except your apology for the above accusations, you crossed the line there.
Capitals (Balancing and Roles) |
The Apostle
The Black Priests
119
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 06:14:00 -
[95] - Quote
Quote:Wrong A person or persons in the Goon leadership have stated, not the alliance. And once again it comes down to I am telling you go jump off that bridge. My response is, that is nice you first. Errrmmm.... Which definition of "leadership" have you used?
Quote:Now if player (A) reported player (B) for botting to director (C) Can any of the above be banned. NO Correct, but what are the consequences for Player A if Player B is good friend (or even the alt) of Director C?
Quote:IT is all talk, and nothing more. CCP makes the determination if a person is a Botter not the players. Aha..... You go it.
So should Goons be publically declaring that their players must tell ONLY alliance leadership about bots when they categorically state it's NOT up to the Goons to "police for CCP"?
We must either accept that Goons are a loyal little bunch and a blind bunch of non-thinking sheep or that they are in fact capable of making their own decisions.
Is Goons leadership assuming the former and to hell with what CCP think? (Read: We make our own rules. Comply peons!)
Or are they hoping to put the skids on the latter to get CCP off the botters backs? (Read: We're copping some flak from CCP about the number of bots reported guys, just go quiet for awhile please...)
Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo! |
Solstice Project
Cult of Personality
16
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 06:51:00 -
[96] - Quote
Read 'till the second page. Enough is enough.
Apostle, seriously, it makes you look stupid to argue about this.
We all - more or less - know what's happening, but unless enough players get together to kick some asses, it's like running to daddy crying about being hit with the plastic shovel in the sandbox.
He'd say "Man up and hit him back."
CCP - for whatever reason - doesn't do anything, (maybe because of lack of reports ? :) so either start reporting, or get some friends/isk together...
Anyway, ... Argueing with stupid sheep makes you look stupid too, so please stop.
Yours sincerely, Daddy. ^^
Edit: We've got Kangaroos in Sch+¦nbrunn. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sch+¦nbrunn_Zoo) |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Industrial Complex Cosmic Consortium
97
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 06:53:00 -
[97] - Quote
KaarBaak wrote:I hate botters as much as the next pilot, but reporting a blue player to CCP because they're botting all day and not taking your calls is pretty crappy thing to do in ANY alliance.
Why is it a crappy thing to do?
The report bot function doesn't cause any penalties to be imposed on the account. If CCP reviews the case and decides that the reported player is actually botting, CCP will impose penalties on the account. Those penalties will not get imposed as a direct consequence of one player using the report bot function.
If they're not botting, they won't be banned, regardless of how many times player use the report bot function to report that player.
|
The Apostle
The Black Priests
121
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 06:57:00 -
[98] - Quote
Quote:Anyway, ... Argueing with stupid sheep makes you look stupid too, so please stop.
Yours sincerely, Daddy. ^^ Advice noticed Dad...
Quote:Edit: We've got Kangaroos in Sch+¦nbrunn. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sch+¦nbrunn_Zoo) Woot. Can I have one for my birthday? Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo! |
Jita Alt666
280
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 07:01:00 -
[99] - Quote
The Apostle wrote:Quote:Alliances are not responsible for the actions of an individual. Correct. Except Goons HAVE assumed responsibility by saying "Thou shalt only report to thy leadership". Since when did Goons (or anyone) start accepting responsibility for actions against EULA violations? They are VERY quick to say it's CCP's problem ("we're not cops for CCP") but disallow CCP intervention as a policy.
Since CCP made them assume responsibility for members breaking the EULA:
Quote:In the past CCP has contacted alliance directors and ordered them to bring their alliance into line when individual members of that alliance have gone against the EULA examples I can remember from the goons include: Posting of common world war 2 german phrases in local. (referring to Germans as being members of a certain political persuasion) General Spam in local. (lag causing) Creation of phallic shaped can arrangements in space. (obviously inappropriate) Naming of Stations with names that are not approved by CCP. (comical and direct enough to make it to fanfest) In all these cases a CCP GM contacted either a director or alliance CEO and insisted that individual police the alliance and limit the rule breaking.
CCP set the precedent. Now like all good organisations they have found a way to use it. |
Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
42
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 07:21:00 -
[100] - Quote
So Goons have internal rules of conduct, who'd have thought!
You can be damn sure the exact same thing applies to all major alliances/blocs. Botting ISK is just too good, too easy and almost completely without repercussions if/when caught.
CCP needs to up the ante and hold space owners accountable for what transpires within their space.
Only then will bots become truly hunted prey.
On top of the personal warnings/bans, alliances should be hit with: - First offence, a massive fine based on blown-out-of-proportion numbers that RIAA made so popular in the kangaroo court system of the colonies. - Second offence, warnings to the entire leadership. - Third offence, banning of leadership and forced dissolution of alliances involved.
There, fixed the botting problem. Next! |
|
Stella SGP
The Kimotoro Initiative
3
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 07:24:00 -
[101] - Quote
Jita Alt666 wrote:Since CCP made them assume responsibility for members breaking the EULA: Quote:In the past CCP has contacted alliance directors and ordered them to bring their alliance into line when individual members of that alliance have gone against the EULA examples I can remember from the goons include: Posting of common world war 2 german phrases in local. (referring to Germans as being members of a certain political persuasion) General Spam in local. (lag causing) Creation of phallic shaped can arrangements in space. (obviously inappropriate) Naming of Stations with names that are not approved by CCP. (comical and direct enough to make it to fanfest) In all these cases a CCP GM contacted either a director or alliance CEO and insisted that individual police the alliance and limit the rule breaking. CCP set the precedent. Now like all good organisations they have found a way to use it.
Are you stupid?
CCP was just trying to be nice and smacked their wrist. Of coarse CCP could have just as easily given them several days ban, but them your kind would start crying on the forums about them being too heavy handed.
For all of the above examples you have quoted, in no way was there any indication that CCP made them assume anything. CCP simply said, play nice. |
Rodj Blake
PIE Inc.
275
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 07:24:00 -
[102] - Quote
It all comes down to whether or not you want to do what's best for yourself (or your corp/alliance), or what's best for the game.
If someone comes to me and says that they've seen a PIE member botting, I'll tell them to report it to CCP. If I ever see a PIE member botting, I'll report them myself.
That's because I don't want to "win" Eve at the expense of destroying the game.
Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori. |
Stella SGP
The Kimotoro Initiative
3
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 07:29:00 -
[103] - Quote
dbl post |
Mocam
EVE University Ivy League
8
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 08:12:00 -
[104] - Quote
Rodj Blake wrote:It all comes down to whether or not you want to do what's best for yourself (or your corp/alliance), or what's best for the game.
If someone comes to me and says that they've seen a PIE member botting, I'll tell them to report it to CCP. If I ever see a PIE member botting, I'll report them myself.
That's because I don't want to "win" Eve at the expense of destroying the game.
It's not really so simple - even from what I've seen in the game.
About a year and a half ago, I'd heard about bots for a long time yet hadn't really seen one. Some folks came into our chat and started talking about this bot in a belt mining.
I flew out to see what a bot setup looked like - found the ships and sent a tell to a hulk - mixed exhumers, only 1 hulk.
A minute or so later the convo is accepted with a brisk "what do you want?" - I informed him that I'd been told there were bots running and... He about bit my head off on a tirade about how often he was accused of being a bot.
He had multiple accounts and AFK mined a lot. He didn't run bots and had dealt with CCP on the complaints numerous times yet repeatedly had been cleared yet still caught flack from other players for "botting".
The subject came up in chat on our voice server and I asked how common some others thought this multiple-account "not bots" was and one of our seniors started to laugh... It's extremely common for people to accuse others of botting - even if it's just multiple accounts running with AFK mining. Anyone that doesn't instantly reply is "a bot".
As such - seeing an alliance leader telling their membership to report it INTERNALLY first -for internal investigation - vs reporting or popping someone... It can make sense.
EVE University has rules about conflicts and differences among members.
If you have a dispute or disagreement - you take it to a corp officer who is assigned to deal with such matters and THEY will handle it - from warnings through "inaccurate" around to booting people - they handle such complaints internally and do investigate the issues.
So if the rather large corp I'm in can have such "internal policy" rules - I can see other large corporations not wanting some ass-hat going off in the wrong direction and "17 hours" - any idea how many people I see claiming 300 mill an hour doing level 4 missions? ...
Exaggerations are common enough that such statements don't fluster me. Especially if they did investigate the person and found it wasn't a bot and had proof that "17 hours" was flat out wrong. (often easy to tell from membership details -AND- a quick convo from a corp officer.
So no - I'm not "flabbergasted" nor flustered. A bit of thought and it can make sense for an organization to internally deal with issues BEFORE 'bringing in officials'.
The only "proofs" that might be requested would be for goons to show they DO act against members found to be botting - "we kicked xyz" "we fed pdq to CCP" etc... Not a mandate to them but a "nice to show" gig that they don't follow what appears to be showing in that memo fragment. Such would be THEIR call and I'd fully support a "get stuffed" attitude about 'demands of proof'. |
Garia666
T.H.U.G L.I.F.E Xenon-Empire
1
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 08:16:00 -
[105] - Quote
hehe what do you expect.. goons are a rotten bunch of ppl who need to jump over on the new starwars game.. |
Ciar Meara
Virtus Vindice
124
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 08:24:00 -
[106] - Quote
Isn't the bot report anonymous? The Mittani can say whatever the bloody hell he wants but people who report a bot with the easy to find "report a bot button" don't get flagged in any way so its a non issue.
Killing other blue's "because they where botting" is another issue though and clearly inside alliance diplo's channel. It makes for an unruly, difficult to prove feud that will impact the alliance negatively or at least corp/player relations inside the alliance, so I get that comment. It is basicly The Mittani's job to say stuff like that.
- [img]http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/janus/ceosig.jpg[/img] [yellow]English only please. Zymurgist[/yellow] |
Tuggboat
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
4
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 08:29:00 -
[107] - Quote
Since CCP works for Goonswarm, some feel there might be a conflict of interest and a have a lack of trust in the anonymity of the button. |
Deviana Sevidon
Panta-Rhei Butterfly Effect Alliance
19
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 08:36:00 -
[108] - Quote
Just another reason never to return to 0.0. |
pussnheels
Vintage heavy industries
71
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 09:31:00 -
[109] - Quote
Deviana Sevidon wrote:Just another reason never to return to 0.0.
worse they have the audacity to complain that nullsec is broke and it is the fault of us highsecdwellers
Nah maybe it is indeed time for ccp to disband all those large nullsec alliances , confiscate and redistribute all their holdings and possesions Yeah you can even do a great live event about it empire factions joining together to destroy powerfull nullsec alliances who have become a danger to the stability of the universe I do not agree with what you are saying , but i will defend to the death your right to say it...... Voltaire |
Mara Tessidar
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
63
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 09:32:00 -
[110] - Quote
Goons, ruining everyone's game, every day
It's what we do best. Notify: You are eaten by the Whumpus
http://goo.gl/uX5vk |
|
Florestan Bronstein
United Engineering Services
67
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 09:41:00 -
[111] - Quote
The Apostle, have you ever considered that (a) nothing about this policy changed in a long time, (b) GSF is terrible at keeping secrets in general and (c) it would be very weird if there were not some CCP employees with alts in the CFC.
too lazy to write a wall of text, imagine it here
tl;dr everyone who cares is aware of the policies you cite and may have his own more or less informed interpretation of them. Do you think people like Sreegs were wearing blindfolds during their time in GSF? or were brainwashed to forget everything they ever knew about EVE when signing up with CCP?
(1) I am pretty sure CCP employees are well aware of (mostly informal) "blue code of silence"-style policies in major alliances and so far they didn't take any action against it - making the corp/alliance responsible for the conduct of its members in serious matters is always a slippery slope. You wouldn't want goons to move their bot alts into -A-, Atlas. or DRF renters, would you?
(2) As has been pointed out before - nobody can or will prevent you from reporting bots to CCP as long as you don't brag about it. But encouraging people to instigate witch-hunts or to report everyone farming their precious sanctums is to nobody's advantage... |
Florestan Bronstein
United Engineering Services
67
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 09:44:00 -
[112] - Quote
Headerman wrote:
Moving on from that, has there been any bot banned at all from no petition raised about it?
Has CCP banned bots from no leads what so ever? Think about it.
you might want to talk to some roidripper customers... |
Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 09:46:00 -
[113] - Quote
Hirana Yoshida wrote:So Goons have internal rules of conduct, who'd have thought!
You can be damn sure the exact same thing applies to all major alliances/blocs. Botting ISK is just too good, too easy and almost completely without repercussions if/when caught.
CCP needs to up the ante and hold space owners accountable for what transpires within their space.
Only then will bots become truly hunted prey.
On top of the personal warnings/bans, alliances should be hit with: - First offence, a massive fine based on blown-out-of-proportion numbers that RIAA made so popular in the kangaroo court system of the colonies. - Second offence, warnings to the entire leadership. - Third offence, banning of leadership and forced dissolution of alliances involved.
There, fixed the botting problem. Next!
So, I apply to join a hostile alliance with 3 alts, set them off botting, then report them one at a time with my main. After the third report, the entire hostile alliance gets Haargoth'd and all their leaders are banned in one fell swoop.
Yes, clearly there is no way this could ever be abused!
|
Mara Tessidar
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
63
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 09:50:00 -
[114] - Quote
Obviously not.
And captchas are effective at preventing bots while not ruining everybody's game. Notify: You are eaten by the Whumpus
http://goo.gl/uX5vk |
Gregor Palter
70
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 09:51:00 -
[115] - Quote
Scatim Helicon wrote:So, I apply to join a hostile alliance with 3 alts, set them off botting, then report them one at a time with my main. After the third report, the entire hostile alliance gets Haargoth'd, losing all of their sovereignty and assets, and all their leaders are banned, preventing them from co-ordinating any form of defence.
Yes, clearly there is no way this could ever be abused!
I thought Goons liked lulz like that, or is that only if it happens to others?
Excuses are the refuge of the weak. |
Jowen Datloran
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
44
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 10:05:00 -
[116] - Quote
Considering corporations profit from certain botting activities too (through corp taxes) I would only be fair if the CEO shared an equal part of the punishment every time one of his corp members were caught botting (10% tax, 10% punishment).
Of course, 10% of a permanent ban is still a permanent ban... Mr. Science & Trade Institute, EVE Online Lorebook-á |
Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
42
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 10:30:00 -
[117] - Quote
Scatim Helicon wrote:So, I apply to join a hostile alliance with 3 alts, set them off botting, then report them one at a time with my main. After the third report, the entire hostile alliance gets Haargoth'd, losing all of their sovereignty and assets, and all their leaders are banned, preventing them from co-ordinating any form of defence.
Yes, clearly there is no way this could ever be abused! Sure, if CCP takes your word at face value, automates the entire system, doesn't investigate anything and talks to no one but you .. that would indeed be the result. There is of course the little matter of you being banned as well, since CCP is perfectly capable of tracing the ownership of alts
So you see, the more likely outcome of that scenario is that the alliance gets "keep vigilant" speech and Eve is awarded with one less goon.
|
Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
20
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 10:55:00 -
[118] - Quote
Kitty McKitty wrote:I think this Goonswarm Federation take the game a bit too seriously.
Hard truth, and sublime (if rather obvious) irony:
The goons (a name I deem unworthy of capitalisation) have become everything they professed to be against, once. They are not even good enough to be a bad joke, anymore.
But then, RMT for pixel-territory pixel-combat in pixel-spaceships = SRS BZNS!!!!
What happened to the Goons, man...? |
Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
20
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 11:08:00 -
[119] - Quote
Zirse wrote: Your tears are delicious.
In a game where everyone bots; the only thing left to do is bot. Seriously, the onus is on CCP to fix the game, not the players.
Fallacy of false consensus, used to justify doing what is explicitly defined as wrong, a definition you explicitly accepted and affirmed to submit to when you clicked "I agree" to the EULA when you first installed the client, and and further justifying it by shifting blame for it onto others:
"It's not my fault/my choice to be/my responsibility for being a useless parasite/drain on (EVE-)society, I'm that way because society's broken and doesn't get fixed, it's their fault!"
What a sad, scared, empty little person you must be, to have this mind-set.
Post with your main, you creeping, skulking coward.
Or better yet, just biomass your characters and get the **** out of our game, squirming maggot.
(Don't blame me, I voted for the Suddenly Ninjas guy for CSM 6--can we have the Mynxee-chaired CSM 5 back, please?)
|
Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 11:10:00 -
[120] - Quote
Hirana Yoshida wrote:Scatim Helicon wrote:So, I apply to join a hostile alliance with 3 alts, set them off botting, then report them one at a time with my main. After the third report, the entire hostile alliance gets Haargoth'd, losing all of their sovereignty and assets, and all their leaders are banned, preventing them from co-ordinating any form of defence.
Yes, clearly there is no way this could ever be abused! Sure, if CCP takes your word at face value, automates the entire system, doesn't investigate anything and talks to no one but you .. that would indeed be the result. There is of course the little matter of you being banned as well, since CCP is perfectly capable of tracing the ownership of alts
Yes you're right, of course, its completely impossible to disguise your identity on the internet. |
|
pussnheels
Vintage heavy industries
71
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 11:42:00 -
[121] - Quote
Scatim Helicon wrote:Hirana Yoshida wrote:Scatim Helicon wrote:So, I apply to join a hostile alliance with 3 alts, set them off botting, then report them one at a time with my main. After the third report, the entire hostile alliance gets Haargoth'd, losing all of their sovereignty and assets, and all their leaders are banned, preventing them from co-ordinating any form of defence.
Yes, clearly there is no way this could ever be abused! Sure, if CCP takes your word at face value, automates the entire system, doesn't investigate anything and talks to no one but you .. that would indeed be the result. There is of course the little matter of you being banned as well, since CCP is perfectly capable of tracing the ownership of alts Yes you're right, of course, its completely impossible to disguise your identity on the internet.
It is obvious it is theCEO final resposibillity to expell the botter, if he doesn't he can expect a nice mail from CCP after a few warnings and to be honest are you going to turn blue every NPC corp around ? i don't think so
Goons Delenda Est I do not agree with what you are saying , but i will defend to the death your right to say it...... Voltaire |
Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 12:00:00 -
[122] - Quote
pussnheels wrote:It is obvious it is theCEO final resposibillity to expell the botter, if he doesn't he can expect a nice mail from CCP after a few warnings and to be honest are you going to turn blue every NPC corp around ? i don't think so
Wait, so if CCP identify a botter they shouldn't ban it? They should email their CEO instead?
El oh fukken el.
And suddenly all becomes clear. This has nothing to do with botting, its just "I don't like them ebil goonies but I'm too worthless to do anything about it myself, I'll beg for big daddy CCP to ban them all hurrrr." |
Niko Takahashi
Percone Outcasts
6
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 12:08:00 -
[123] - Quote
Is really ANYONE surprised ?
I mean this is not exactly news. Russians bot goons bot all of the nullbears bot.
I am very sceptical that CCP with the current subscription trend is going to do anything with this. it would be another 5000 accounts if not more gone |
|
CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
107
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 13:04:00 -
[124] - Quote
Not jumping into the heated rhetorical nature of this thread I did see some comments that I'd just like to get a statement on the record about. When making determinations regarding bans for botting the alliance, corporation, political beliefs, gender or any other anecdotal information about the offender aren't taken into account. At least not in a way that would be considered a net positive to the group the botter belongs to.
Detections determine the administrative action, not corporation or alliance membership.
That being said, if we feel there's a problem pattern developing we will take action to rectify it. Alliances and corporations should not be encouraging malicious/illegal activity and if we see evidence of this occurring action will be taken. I would heartily encourage alliances and corporations not to condone illegal activities. |
|
Vertisce Soritenshi
SHADOW WARD Tragedy.
47
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 13:12:00 -
[125] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote: That being said, if we feel there's a problem pattern developing we will take action to rectify it. Alliances and corporations should not be encouraging malicious/illegal activity and if we see evidence of this occurring action will be taken. I would heartily encourage alliances and corporations not to condone illegal activities.
You may want to have a word or two with your CSM chairman then. |
Apollo-Moor
xHELLonEARTHx Rookie Empire
9
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 13:14:00 -
[126] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote:Not jumping into the heated rhetorical nature of this thread I did see some comments that I'd just like to get a statement on the record about. When making determinations regarding bans for botting the alliance, corporation, political beliefs, gender or any other anecdotal information about the offender aren't taken into account. At least not in a way that would be considered a net positive to the group the botter belongs to.
Detections determine the administrative action, not corporation or alliance membership.
That being said, if we feel there's a problem pattern developing we will take action to rectify it. Alliances and corporations should not be encouraging malicious/illegal activity and if we see evidence of this occurring action will be taken. I would heartily encourage alliances and corporations not to condone illegal activities.
Blue-On-Blue Violence
This is a sensitive GÇô even a touchy GÇô subject, so let me say that while he is, indeed, a keen ratter GÇô a very keen ratter if we are honest GÇô we have one rule in Goonswarm: we donGÇÖt **** other goons. Oh and we donGÇÖt play cop for CCP in their own game by reporting or petitioning goons, either:
But if it were the case that he had been ratting just a little too exuberantly for peoplesGÇÖ liking, or if he had offended them by consistently ignoring their conversation requests for a brief window of, say, seventeen or eighteen hours, for instance, then it would be goon-****** to report him or to kill him. This will land you and your corp in trouble as all we know is that someone shot blues.
You mean something along the lines of this? |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
287
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 13:20:00 -
[127] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote: I would heartily encourage alliances and corporations not to condone illegal activities.
Or else what?
Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
TheBadMan
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 13:22:00 -
[128] - Quote
derp derp |
Mara Tessidar
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
63
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 13:23:00 -
[129] - Quote
Bad things happen.
Actually most of at least one alliance's leadership was banned at some point because the alliance pretty much existed to bot; pretty sure it was a group of Russian-based guys somewhere in the east. Notify: You are eaten by the Whumpus
http://goo.gl/uX5vk |
Othran
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
36
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 13:25:00 -
[130] - Quote
Frankly - and I'm not defending or accusing anyone here - you could subsititute "Goons" with just about any other major sov holding alliance and the same conversations will have taken place.
The serious botters/RMTrs have been doing it for years (first bot I saw was 2004). In some instances they RUN the alliance. Try proving it though.
Pretty much every new corp into an alliance has to agree to stuff like this - no blue on blue, any probs with other alliance members then you talk to leadership FIRST, etc etc.
Genie has been out of the bottle for WAY too long on RMT - long enough to allegedly build houses from the proceeds if scuttlebutt is to be believed.
tl;dr every major sov holding alliance has exactly the same problem. |
|
Apollo-Moor
xHELLonEARTHx Rookie Empire
9
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 13:42:00 -
[131] - Quote
Othran wrote:Frankly - and I'm not defending or accusing anyone here - you could subsititute "Goons" with just about any other major sov holding alliance and the same conversations will have taken place.
The serious botters/RMTrs have been doing it for years (first bot I saw was 2004). In some instances they RUN the alliance. Try proving it though.
Pretty much every new corp into an alliance has to agree to stuff like this - no blue on blue, any probs with other alliance members then you talk to leadership FIRST, etc etc.
Genie has been out of the bottle for WAY too long on RMT - long enough to allegedly build houses from the proceeds if scuttlebutt is to be believed.
tl;dr every major sov holding alliance has exactly the same problem.
+1 |
Bubanni
SniggWaffe
2
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 13:43:00 -
[132] - Quote
Dont know if the bot hunter team does this already or not... :b but one way to start making corps that keeping eyes out for bots... when you remove all the isk the bot has earned like you normally do... make sure the tax income the corp has earned from each.bot also... that might cause some self regulation to some degree |
|
CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
107
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 13:43:00 -
[133] - Quote
Apollo-Moor wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:Not jumping into the heated rhetorical nature of this thread I did see some comments that I'd just like to get a statement on the record about. When making determinations regarding bans for botting the alliance, corporation, political beliefs, gender or any other anecdotal information about the offender aren't taken into account. At least not in a way that would be considered a net positive to the group the botter belongs to.
Detections determine the administrative action, not corporation or alliance membership.
That being said, if we feel there's a problem pattern developing we will take action to rectify it. Alliances and corporations should not be encouraging malicious/illegal activity and if we see evidence of this occurring action will be taken. I would heartily encourage alliances and corporations not to condone illegal activities. Blue-On-Blue Violence This is a sensitive GÇô even a touchy GÇô subject, so let me say that while he is, indeed, a keen ratter GÇô a very keen ratter if we are honest GÇô we have one rule in Goonswarm: we donGÇÖt **** other goons. Oh and we donGÇÖt play cop for CCP in their own game by reporting or petitioning goons, either: But if it were the case that he had been ratting just a little too exuberantly for peoplesGÇÖ liking, or if he had offended them by consistently ignoring their conversation requests for a brief window of, say, seventeen or eighteen hours, for instance, then it would be goon-****** to report him or to kill him. This will land you and your corp in trouble as all we know is that someone shot blues. You mean something along the lines of this?
No, I mean evidence of coordinated wrongdoing. Just like I said. Feel free to email said evidence to [email protected] |
|
Generals4
56
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 13:45:00 -
[134] - Quote
Quantessa wrote:I don't support botting.
I don't have any issue though with an Alliance declaring rules of not grassing up people for doing it. Other players can do it, Gms can try to detect it and so on.
In real life if I park on a yellow line it's a fair cop if I get caught but I'd find it completely unacceptable if a mate called the Feds to grass me up.
Outlawing the practice of informing on people is not the same as legalising a practice.
And if you don't like Goon CSMs vote for someone else and encourage others to do likewise.
What i find funny is that in your analogy you put yourself in the feet of the offender. You basically said "if i were a botter i wouldn't like a friend to rat me out" ... well DUH!
A more appropriate question would be: if someone committed a crime against you (violence, theft, etc...) wouldn't you like a friend of the criminal to rat him out? I sure know i would. Heck i think if everyone followed a "let's not rat anyone out" policy in rl things would be a lot worse.
So why should we even find arguments to excuse a policy which is obviously counter-productive against the plague which is botting. |
Mendolus
Aurelius Federation
47
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 13:54:00 -
[135] - Quote
I'm reluctant to entertain the notion that Mittens was right since the rhetoric of the post is fairly loaded and stigmatized, but I cannot help notice something now that the whole context of the post has been aired out. I think he is simply trying to prevent McCarthyism within Goonswarm if anything.
What that says about whether or not he actually condones or does not condone botting is circumstantial at best given the context of the entire post.
Again, I do not know beyond that, anything... but it seems clear the intent is to prevent Goonswarm from devouring itself from the inside out and letting the leadership sort out all the details. Whether or not that is what they are actually doing is another question.
...clearly the Ishukone Watch Scorpion is the fifth horseman of the Apocalypse, i.e. the Brown Rider, otherwise known as Poopie. |
Akrasjel Lanate
Naquatech Conglomerate
83
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 13:57:00 -
[136] - Quote
Sebero Sinak wrote: I've quit playing Eve but came back for about 10 days of playing around the 12th - 22nd. All i did was hunt bots for the hell of it.
CCP banned 5 bots/isk farmers running transportation missions out of Eddar VIII i reported.
After finishing with them I was curious about the Goons so using Dotlan map i chose the red colored system of Goons (meaning it had the most npc kills in 24 hrs ) and went there in a cloaked frigate. S-DN5M
I found plenty of live players willing to engage me (if they could find me ). I found no wrecks at belts i visited and no goons - till they started flooding the belts trying to find me.
What I did find was more of the npc anomolies then i cared to try to count. I don't really care about 0.0 but i hate bots and that is why i went there - to see for myself. All i saw was players running those sites.
Thats what i found..you draw your own conclusions.
My opinion is every friggin alliance has some bot users - seems eve attracts the type.
lol you have like 6 days lol Goon alt
|
Smoking Blunts
Zebra Corp BricK sQuAD.
56
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 13:57:00 -
[137] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote:Apollo-Moor wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:Not jumping into the heated rhetorical nature of this thread I did see some comments that I'd just like to get a statement on the record about. When making determinations regarding bans for botting the alliance, corporation, political beliefs, gender or any other anecdotal information about the offender aren't taken into account. At least not in a way that would be considered a net positive to the group the botter belongs to.
Detections determine the administrative action, not corporation or alliance membership.
That being said, if we feel there's a problem pattern developing we will take action to rectify it. Alliances and corporations should not be encouraging malicious/illegal activity and if we see evidence of this occurring action will be taken. I would heartily encourage alliances and corporations not to condone illegal activities. Blue-On-Blue Violence This is a sensitive GÇô even a touchy GÇô subject, so let me say that while he is, indeed, a keen ratter GÇô a very keen ratter if we are honest GÇô we have one rule in Goonswarm: we donGÇÖt **** other goons. Oh and we donGÇÖt play cop for CCP in their own game by reporting or petitioning goons, either: But if it were the case that he had been ratting just a little too exuberantly for peoplesGÇÖ liking, or if he had offended them by consistently ignoring their conversation requests for a brief window of, say, seventeen or eighteen hours, for instance, then it would be goon-****** to report him or to kill him. This will land you and your corp in trouble as all we know is that someone shot blues. You mean something along the lines of this? No, I mean evidence of coordinated wrongdoing. Just like I said. Feel free to email said evidence to [email protected]
well lets face it, if you banned every bot out there now, you would loose a massive amount of accounts. and the bottom line is i doubt you could afford the cash flow hit CCP-áare full of words and no action. We watch what they do and its nothing but false statements and lies.
|
Apollo-Moor
xHELLonEARTHx Rookie Empire
9
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 14:04:00 -
[138] - Quote
Smoking Blunts wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:Apollo-Moor wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:Not jumping into the heated rhetorical nature of this thread I did see some comments that I'd just like to get a statement on the record about. When making determinations regarding bans for botting the alliance, corporation, political beliefs, gender or any other anecdotal information about the offender aren't taken into account. At least not in a way that would be considered a net positive to the group the botter belongs to.
Detections determine the administrative action, not corporation or alliance membership.
That being said, if we feel there's a problem pattern developing we will take action to rectify it. Alliances and corporations should not be encouraging malicious/illegal activity and if we see evidence of this occurring action will be taken. I would heartily encourage alliances and corporations not to condone illegal activities. Blue-On-Blue Violence This is a sensitive GÇô even a touchy GÇô subject, so let me say that while he is, indeed, a keen ratter GÇô a very keen ratter if we are honest GÇô we have one rule in Goonswarm: we donGÇÖt **** other goons. Oh and we donGÇÖt play cop for CCP in their own game by reporting or petitioning goons, either: But if it were the case that he had been ratting just a little too exuberantly for peoplesGÇÖ liking, or if he had offended them by consistently ignoring their conversation requests for a brief window of, say, seventeen or eighteen hours, for instance, then it would be goon-****** to report him or to kill him. This will land you and your corp in trouble as all we know is that someone shot blues. You mean something along the lines of this? No, I mean evidence of coordinated wrongdoing. Just like I said. Feel free to email said evidence to [email protected] well lets face it, if you banned every bot out there now, you would loose a massive amount of accounts. and the bottom line is i doubt you could afford the cash flow hit
This is the reasoning botters use to bot.. |
Smoking Blunts
Zebra Corp BricK sQuAD.
56
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 14:09:00 -
[139] - Quote
its also the reason there still allowed to bot. CCP-áare full of words and no action. We watch what they do and its nothing but false statements and lies.
|
Enuen Ravenseye
Malevolence. Void Alliance
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 14:13:00 -
[140] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote:That being said, if we feel there's a problem pattern developing we will take action to rectify it.
Seriously, did you manage to type that with a straight face?
The botting problem has been building for YEARS. It has reached the point of being ridiculous, or maybe just plain comical. As has been noted in this and every thread, botting is now everywhere and is being practiced by every major (and minor) corp/alliance in game. Yet you continue to do nothing of substance beyond repeating the same tired line of "We investigate reports and occasionally ban a few people".
I guess you haven't noticed that pattern yet, eh? Or are you admitting that you don't view botting as a problem? Either way, that's pretty damned sad.
|
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Apollo-Moor
xHELLonEARTHx Rookie Empire
9
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 14:19:00 -
[141] - Quote
Problem Pattern.. Now thats good..
"We know there's a problem, but the pattern is not perfect yet.. You see that bit of territory to the South and South-West that doesn't belong to the "botters".
"Yea when they cross that line right there. We officially have a pattern until then its just a Clusterfuck.. "
LmAO..
Someone give this guy a raise.. |
KaarBaak
45
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 14:23:00 -
[142] - Quote
Apollo-Moor wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:Not jumping into the heated rhetorical nature of this thread I did see some comments that I'd just like to get a statement on the record about. When making determinations regarding bans for botting the alliance, corporation, political beliefs, gender or any other anecdotal information about the offender aren't taken into account. At least not in a way that would be considered a net positive to the group the botter belongs to.
Detections determine the administrative action, not corporation or alliance membership.
That being said, if we feel there's a problem pattern developing we will take action to rectify it. Alliances and corporations should not be encouraging malicious/illegal activity and if we see evidence of this occurring action will be taken. I would heartily encourage alliances and corporations not to condone illegal activities. Blue-On-Blue Violence This is a sensitive GÇô even a touchy GÇô subject, so let me say that while he is, indeed, a keen ratter GÇô a very keen ratter if we are honest GÇô we have one rule in Goonswarm: we donGÇÖt **** other goons. Oh and we donGÇÖt play cop for CCP in their own game by reporting or petitioning goons, either: But if it were the case that he had been ratting just a little too exuberantly for peoplesGÇÖ liking, or if he had offended them by consistently ignoring their conversation requests for a brief window of, say, seventeen or eighteen hours, for instance, then it would be goon-****** to report him or to kill him. This will land you and your corp in trouble as all we know is that someone shot blues. You mean something along the lines of this?
I'm no fan of the "snitches get stitches" concept, but frankly if you're a member of a large alliance and your first response to someone acting "suspiciously" [in your opinion] is to report them to CCP, you don't belong in that alliance.
Use your "chain-of'-command." Let your corp directors know....and let them handle it. If they don't, then it's a bad corp to be in and you should drop corp and report. If you remain in corp and your corp leadership and/or alliance leadership doesn't do anything about it, then drop and report.
Once you know, you're either part of the solution or part of the problem.
It makes no sense to report alliance/corpmates.
If you fancy yourself some kind of Seymour Hersh-type and try to expose the evil-doers....then collect data/evidence and report. Still makes no sense to report blues.
|
Apollo-Moor
xHELLonEARTHx Rookie Empire
9
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 14:29:00 -
[143] - Quote
KaarBaak wrote:Apollo-Moor wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:Not jumping into the heated rhetorical nature of this thread I did see some comments that I'd just like to get a statement on the record about. When making determinations regarding bans for botting the alliance, corporation, political beliefs, gender or any other anecdotal information about the offender aren't taken into account. At least not in a way that would be considered a net positive to the group the botter belongs to.
Detections determine the administrative action, not corporation or alliance membership.
That being said, if we feel there's a problem pattern developing we will take action to rectify it. Alliances and corporations should not be encouraging malicious/illegal activity and if we see evidence of this occurring action will be taken. I would heartily encourage alliances and corporations not to condone illegal activities. Blue-On-Blue Violence This is a sensitive GÇô even a touchy GÇô subject, so let me say that while he is, indeed, a keen ratter GÇô a very keen ratter if we are honest GÇô we have one rule in Goonswarm: we donGÇÖt **** other goons. Oh and we donGÇÖt play cop for CCP in their own game by reporting or petitioning goons, either: But if it were the case that he had been ratting just a little too exuberantly for peoplesGÇÖ liking, or if he had offended them by consistently ignoring their conversation requests for a brief window of, say, seventeen or eighteen hours, for instance, then it would be goon-****** to report him or to kill him. This will land you and your corp in trouble as all we know is that someone shot blues. You mean something along the lines of this? Reporting a botter has not saying on your loyalty to your Alliance. It's getting a cheater out of the game. I don't care if its "Blue" or "Red" or "Neutral" botter. It's ALL bad.. You are trying to combine the in-game mechanic of reporting a person who is CHEATING in the game and breaking EULA. That has nothing to do with Alliance loyalties. You are being loyal to your Alliance by fighting with them and defending your SOV. That doesn't mean you have to align yourself with cheaters to do so.. If your Alliance is saying that botting is to be handeled in-house they are bullshitting you, just so they don't lose that botter toon from the Alliance. Your leadership should not give two ***** if you are reporting a botter and have no need to know. Since they themselves are not able to do the actual banning. What point is it to notify them of your intentions. Unless you want to put that nice juicy target on your back.. I'm no fan of the "snitches get stitches" concept, but frankly if you're a member of a large alliance and your first response to someone acting "suspiciously" [in your opinion] is to report them to CCP, you don't belong in that alliance. Use your "chain-of'-command." Let your corp directors know....and let them handle it. If they don't, then it's a bad corp to be in and you should drop corp and report. If you remain in corp and your corp leadership and/or alliance leadership doesn't do anything about it, then drop and report. Once you know, you're either part of the solution or part of the problem. It makes no sense to report alliance/corpmates. If you fancy yourself some kind of Seymour Hersh-type and try to expose the evil-doers....then collect data/evidence and report. Still makes no sense to report blues.
|
Skippermonkey
Tactical Knightmare
59
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 14:35:00 -
[144] - Quote
if you think somebody is botting, report them
let CCP deal with it
If you think your biased nulsec leadership will deal with this in the manner it deserves more fool you |
Vertisce Soritenshi
SHADOW WARD Tragedy.
47
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 14:35:00 -
[145] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote:Apollo-Moor wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:Not jumping into the heated rhetorical nature of this thread I did see some comments that I'd just like to get a statement on the record about. When making determinations regarding bans for botting the alliance, corporation, political beliefs, gender or any other anecdotal information about the offender aren't taken into account. At least not in a way that would be considered a net positive to the group the botter belongs to.
Detections determine the administrative action, not corporation or alliance membership.
That being said, if we feel there's a problem pattern developing we will take action to rectify it. Alliances and corporations should not be encouraging malicious/illegal activity and if we see evidence of this occurring action will be taken. I would heartily encourage alliances and corporations not to condone illegal activities. Blue-On-Blue Violence This is a sensitive GÇô even a touchy GÇô subject, so let me say that while he is, indeed, a keen ratter GÇô a very keen ratter if we are honest GÇô we have one rule in Goonswarm: we donGÇÖt **** other goons. Oh and we donGÇÖt play cop for CCP in their own game by reporting or petitioning goons, either: But if it were the case that he had been ratting just a little too exuberantly for peoplesGÇÖ liking, or if he had offended them by consistently ignoring their conversation requests for a brief window of, say, seventeen or eighteen hours, for instance, then it would be goon-****** to report him or to kill him. This will land you and your corp in trouble as all we know is that someone shot blues. You mean something along the lines of this? No, I mean evidence of coordinated wrongdoing. Just like I said. Feel free to email said evidence to [email protected]
You actually quoted a post in which you were directly quoted and I see nowhere that you said "evidence of coordinated wrongdoing". You specifically said " Alliances and corporations should not be encouraging malicious/illegal activity and if we see evidence of this occurring action will be taken.". Encouraging malicious/illegal activity would include threatening to evict someone from an alliance for reporting botting of another alliance member. By doing that you are basically saying it is ok to bot in our alliance because we will not report you. That is encouragement.
So...just like I said. You may want to investigate your CSM chairman and the botting activities of all the alliances that the current CSM members are a part of. We wouldn't want CCP to look hipocritical and foolish now would we?
|
Skippermonkey
Tactical Knightmare
61
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 14:46:00 -
[146] - Quote
i like the part where people think that alliance rules supercede the EULA |
Alice Katsuko
Terra Incognita Intrepid Crossing
10
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 14:54:00 -
[147] - Quote
Most alliances prohibit blue-on-blue violence, simply as an administrative matter. Else it would be very easy for a pilot with an itchy trigger finger to shoot a suspected bot first and find out later that he was just alt-tabbed and AFK-ratting, or to shoot someone they don't like and claim that they thought it was a bot, or to simply suicide-gank alliance members and steal their modules under cover of bot hunting.
Mittens' main point is that suspected botters should be reported first to the alliance, that being suspected of botting does not make a pilot a target, and that he has a zero-tolerance policy for blue kills. Such a policy is hardly uncommon. While I wouldn't hesitate to report a botter, regardless of alliance or corporation, I wouldn't start ganking them until getting the go-ahead from corporation/alliance leadership. Because it would look rather bad if leadership thought I was hunting blues. |
Vertisce Soritenshi
SHADOW WARD Tragedy.
48
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 15:13:00 -
[148] - Quote
Alice Katsuko wrote:Most alliances prohibit blue-on-blue violence, simply as an administrative matter. Else it would be very easy for a pilot with an itchy trigger finger to shoot a suspected bot first and find out later that he was just alt-tabbed and AFK-ratting, or to shoot someone they don't like and claim that they thought it was a bot, or to simply suicide-gank alliance members and steal their modules under cover of bot hunting.
Mittens' main point is that suspected botters should be reported first to the alliance, that being suspected of botting does not make a pilot a target, and that he has a zero-tolerance policy for blue kills. Such a policy is hardly uncommon. While I wouldn't hesitate to report a botter, regardless of alliance or corporation, I wouldn't start ganking them until getting the go-ahead from corporation/alliance leadership. Because it would look rather bad if leadership thought I was hunting blues.
Zero tolerance policy on blue kills? Goonswarm? What? Unfortunately I have to disagree. I also have to disagree with your interpretation of "The Mittani's" address to his alliance. I seriously doubt he botheres removing people from his alliance for botting. |
Mara Tessidar
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
63
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 15:17:00 -
[149] - Quote
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:Zero tolerance policy on blue kills? Goonswarm? What?
I'm not sure if it's your blind hatred for Goonswarm or your stupidity that makes you think that any alliance, let alone one of the largest in the game, would let its members run around shooting each other willy-nilly.
(Counterpoint: TEST Alliance)
Notify: You are eaten by the Whumpus
http://goo.gl/uX5vk |
Skippermonkey
Tactical Knightmare
61
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 15:22:00 -
[150] - Quote
Taken from the EVE EULA;
EULA wrote:You may not use macros or other stored rapid keystrokes or other patterns of play that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play. means no automated botting allowed
EULA wrote:You may not rewrite or modify the user interface or otherwise manipulate data in any way to acquire items, currency, objects, character attributes or beneficial actions not actually acquired or achieved in the Game. yup, no botting allowed
EULA wrote:B. Selling Items and Objects You may not transfer, sell or auction, or buy or accept any offer to transfer, sell or auction (or offer to do any of the foregoing), any content appearing within the Game environment, including without limitation characters, character attributes, items, currency, and objects, other than via a permitted Character Transfer as described in section 3 above. You may not encourage or induce any other person to participate in such a prohibited transaction. The buying, selling or auctioning (or any attempt at doing so) of characters, character attributes, items, currency, or objects, whether through online auctions (such as ebay), newsgroups, postings on message boards or any other means is prohibited by the EULA and a violation of CCP's proprietary rights in the Game. And you are definitely not allowed to sell any in game item or indeed your whole account. Also, i would seem that by not reporting players you KNOW to be actively breaking these rules you are 'encouraging' them and by extension, breaking the EULA yourself.
EULA wrote:You have no interest in the value of your time spent playing the Game, for example, by the building up of the experience level of your character and the items your character accumulates during your time playing the Game. Your Account, and all attributes of your Account, including all corporations, actions, groups, titles and characters, and all objects, currency and items acquired, developed or delivered by or to characters as a result of play through your Accounts, are the sole and exclusive property of CCP, including any and all copyrights and intellectual property rights in or to any and all of the same, all of which are hereby expressly reserved. This little bit here also states that anything gained in-game isnt even yours to sell, it ALL belongs to CCP. In closing;
EULA wrote:To play EVE, you must: ~snip~ (iv) comply with the EULA. Please try and argue that reporting botters to your alliance leaders and not to CCP is the correct thing to do |
|
Maxpie
Metaphysical Utopian Society Explorations
8
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 15:43:00 -
[151] - Quote
Funny how you can tell who the botters are just by reading their responses in this thread. |
Cipher Jones
47
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 15:43:00 -
[152] - Quote
Quote:That being said, if we feel there's a problem pattern developing we will take action to rectify it. Alliances and corporations should not be encouraging malicious/illegal activity and if we see evidence of this occurring action will be taken. I would heartily encourage alliances and corporations not to condone illegal activities.
You mean like the evidence in the OP?
See what happens when fat neckbeards try to ride little ponies? The ponies die. |
Dunbar Hulan
The Flaming Sideburn's Art of War Alliance
2
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 15:51:00 -
[153] - Quote
Storm in a tea cup. Wadi Al-Batin : -áNothing to you, but everything to me. |
SmashTech
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 15:55:00 -
[154] - Quote
I could've guessed from the title that this was going to be a BoB-fest but jeeze oh man this exceeded all my expectations. I mean seriously: Goons "legalising" botting!! You sorry pubbie. |
Florestan Bronstein
United Engineering Services
69
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 16:17:00 -
[155] - Quote
there is a pretty large difference between an alliance that is not fully cooperative with CCP when it comes to fighting EULA violations and an alliance that exists to facilitate EULA violations.
Sreegs seems to address the latter rather than the former.
some people in this thread try very hard to make both things look as if they are the same.
Apollo-Moor wrote:Reporting someone for cheating in game and breaking EULA is in no means saying you are not loyal to your Alliance. Fighting along side them and defending space and whatever else declares your loyalty. when your alliance says "we don't want snitches amidst our own" how loyal can you be to your alliance while being a snitch? |
Andrea Roche
State War Academy Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 16:23:00 -
[156] - Quote
How ironic. The goons with their 1 year propaganda against botters while at the same time doing it themselves and now they give goons a green light to do botting. Well this would be the final coffin to eve. Having huge alliance income is no longer enough. I guess this is how a game dies....If this persist, its the begining of the end, specially when the Mitani been the president of CSM sponsors botting. This is how great games dies.
|
Vertisce Soritenshi
SHADOW WARD Tragedy.
48
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 16:27:00 -
[157] - Quote
Mara Tessidar wrote:Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:Zero tolerance policy on blue kills? Goonswarm? What? I'm not sure if it's your blind hatred for Goonswarm or your stupidity that makes you think that any alliance, let alone one of the largest in the game, would let its members run around shooting each other willy-nilly. (Counterpoint: TEST Alliance)
I am not sure if it's your blind faith in Goonswarm or your stupidity that makes you think recruiting members and then immediately destroying thier ship and podding them isn't considered killing blues. (FYI Goonswarm is well known for doing this.) |
Florestan Bronstein
United Engineering Services
69
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 16:32:00 -
[158] - Quote
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:I am not sure if it's your blind faith in Goonswarm or your stupidity that makes you think recruiting members and then immediately destroying thier ship and podding them isn't considered killing blues. (FYI Goonswarm is well known for doing this.) I heard they also shoot blue dictors that managed to bubble their own fleet....
what a bunch of unruly anarchists! not even the beautiful color "blue" is sacred these days... |
Mara Tessidar
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
63
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 16:41:00 -
[159] - Quote
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:I am not sure if it's your blind faith in Goonswarm or your stupidity that makes you think recruiting members and then immediately destroying thier ship and podding them isn't considered killing blues. (FYI Goonswarm is well known for doing this.)
As a Goonswarm RecruiterGäó I can assure you that no individual who has been accepted into a Goonswarm corporation has been immediately set upon and been robbed and killed. If we really don't like somebody we don't allow them in because that would mean they'd have access to all of Goonswarm's vast OOG resources and it would provide them an opportunity to be a nuisance before a director would revoke their privileges and undo their actions.
Also your true motivation for calling Goons an evil botting empire is showing through there just a liiiiittle bit. Notify: You are eaten by the Whumpus
http://goo.gl/uX5vk |
Vertisce Soritenshi
SHADOW WARD Tragedy.
48
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 16:44:00 -
[160] - Quote
Mara Tessidar wrote:Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:I am not sure if it's your blind faith in Goonswarm or your stupidity that makes you think recruiting members and then immediately destroying thier ship and podding them isn't considered killing blues. (FYI Goonswarm is well known for doing this.) As a Goonswarm RecruiterGäó I can assure you that no individual who has been accepted into a Goonswarm corporation has been immediately set upon and been robbed and killed. If we really don't like somebody we don't allow them in because that would mean they'd have access to all of Goonswarm's vast OOG resources and it would provide them an opportunity to be a nuisance before a director would revoke their privileges and undo their actions. Also your true motivation for calling Goons an evil botting empire is showing through there just a liiiiittle bit.
The definition of "denial" right there.
When did I call Goonswarm an "evil botting empire". I called out for an investigation not only against Goonswarm but all alliances in which any CSM member resides. I believe that if you are going to be in the CSM then not only you but your alliance as a whole should be held to a higher standard because you now (in a way) represent CCP. This is not to say that all players shouldn't be held to the same standard but it should be enforced more diligently on those who represent CCP. |
|
Mara Tessidar
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
63
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 16:49:00 -
[161] - Quote
CCP would already have checked out Goonswarm and other large alliances in the game, simply because they are the largest ones out there. They also check out the accounts of anyone elected to the CSM for various reasons which I shouldn't have to spell out but I will because you are stupid. CCP checks to see if the CSM is acting on information given during their meetings in Iceland and to see if they are engaging in RMT or any other EULA-violating activities. Calling for "an investigation herp derp" is absolutely pointless because it's already happened. Not only that, but as someone said before me, CCP employees have accounts; often times in the largest alliances in the game *cough* Bob *cough*. If they see a problem they would presumably do something about it. Actually, forget that last bit, T20 ruined that argument. Notify: You are eaten by the Whumpus
http://goo.gl/uX5vk |
Mara Tessidar
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
63
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 16:51:00 -
[162] - Quote
I also see you ninja-edited in a statement that is so utterly dumb I can't believe you have the spare neurons to breathe: the CSM does not represent CCP. They represent the people they were elected by. In the case of mittens, that would definitely not be you. Notify: You are eaten by the Whumpus
http://goo.gl/uX5vk |
Florestan Bronstein
United Engineering Services
69
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 16:52:00 -
[163] - Quote
Mara Tessidar wrote:As a Goonswarm RecruiterGäó I can assure you that no individual who has been accepted into a Goonswarm corporation has been immediately set upon and been robbed and killed. If we really don't like somebody we don't allow them in because that would mean they'd have access to all of Goonswarm's vast OOG resources and it would provide them an opportunity to be a nuisance before a director would revoke their privileges and undo their actions. I would assume he is referring to scam targets being accepted into a squad's alt corp (or a personal alt corp) for some time (which is ofc in the alliance) - they wouldn't get access to auth (as their application is handled through the fake auth system) but could see alliance chat for the time of their stay...
I can't comment on GSF but it is/was a somewhat common practice in TEST especially when the "recruiter" had to convince a scam target that it is safe to jump a carrier blindly into 6VDT. Being able to talk to all the other guys in alliance (while not knowing the corp you are in is an unregulated alt corp) makes some people very stupid. |
Mallikanth
Awakened Brotherhood The Brotherhood Alliance
13
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 17:00:00 -
[164] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote:... I mean evidence of coordinated wrongdoing.
CCP Sreegs, what do you mean by "coordinated "?
It gives me the impression that because you need other people to coordinate anything then any evidence of a "lone" botter is not wanted? Surely that can't be right but I can think of no other logical meaning for the way this is phrased. A botter should be reported no matter what or who he's working with.
And on a related note, can you give examples as to what classes as Evidence? Player logs definitely show nothing last time I checked.
Thanks.
I have no decent Signature because.. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=24223#post24223 |
Vertisce Soritenshi
SHADOW WARD Tragedy.
49
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 17:03:00 -
[165] - Quote
Mara Tessidar wrote:I also see you ninja-edited in a statement that is so utterly dumb I can't believe you have the spare neurons to breathe: the CSM does not represent CCP. They represent the people they were elected by. In the case of mittens, that would definitely not be you.
So utterly dumb huh? CSM represents (in part) CCP to the players and they represent the players to CCP. This is common sense. Just because I didn't vote for Mittani doesn't mean it is not his job to represent me as a player. What you are saying is like saying Obama doesn't represent all Americans. Only the ones who voted for him. IF what you say is true and that the CSM only represents those that voted for them than this entire CSM is nothing but a worthless waste of time and space and should be abolished since they appearently only represent a few thousand of the tens of thousands of players in EvE.
At least I know how to edit my posts and not have to double post. But really...before you start calling people "stupid" and "dumb" you should really think things over for yourself. I can't really fault you though...you ARE in Goonswarm. |
Mara Tessidar
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
63
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 17:05:00 -
[166] - Quote
Your statements are once again wrong and your comparisons to actual politics are sad and futile. Notify: You are eaten by the Whumpus
http://goo.gl/uX5vk |
Mara Tessidar
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
63
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 17:09:00 -
[167] - Quote
Also, Mittens doesn't represent you to CCP. He represents Goons.
Which means Goons are controlling your game. Just thought I'd remind you of that. Notify: You are eaten by the Whumpus
http://goo.gl/uX5vk |
Andrea Roche
State War Academy Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 17:13:00 -
[168] - Quote
Mara Tessidar wrote:Your statements are once again wrong and your comparisons to actual politics are sad and futile. lol so it represent all the people and later retracts himself but "not you"...ROFL....keep diging urself a hole.... biased anyone? |
Mara Tessidar
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
63
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 17:16:00 -
[169] - Quote
Post when you have a picture and aren't in the starter NPC corporation. Notify: You are eaten by the Whumpus
http://goo.gl/uX5vk |
De'Veldrin
Norse'Storm Battle Group Intrepid Crossing
9
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 17:18:00 -
[170] - Quote
Mara Tessidar wrote:Also, Mittens doesn't represent you to CCP. He represents Goons.
So it's exactly like real life politics in that the elected individual only represents a certain (heavily biased) very small portion of the total electorate.
|
|
A Research Alt
Tri-Research and Invention
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 17:18:00 -
[171] - Quote
Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the war room General Discussion!
Seriously though leave the RL political analogies out of it, please. |
Homo Erectus
Evolution The Initiative.
29
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 17:22:00 -
[172] - Quote
This sandbox full of short bus applicants will suck significantly less (but still suck) when Mittins doesn't get his entitled 'I am the CSM' way and leaves, taking his horde of fukung/b-wannabe/pre-pubescent/meme pasting bookends with him. |
Homo Erectus
Evolution The Initiative.
29
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 17:22:00 -
[173] - Quote
reserved for "u mad, bro" combat |
Zirse
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
75
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 17:49:00 -
[174] - Quote
Homo Erectus wrote:This sandbox full of short bus applicants will suck significantly less (but still suck) when Mittins doesn't get his entitled 'I am the CSM' way and leaves, taking his horde of fukung/b-wannabe/pre-pubescent/meme pasting bookends with him.
But what will you do when he does get his way?
He's many things, but one thing he isn't is a bad space politician. He's engineered a position where no matter what happens in the coming months he can still claim victory.
As to the botting thing; there is a lot of stupid in this thread.
Its like they're just starting to realize that every alliance is infested with bots and has been for a while. This game is so broken that you pretty much have to bot to stay competitive, and that's what nullsec is, a cutthroat competition. CCP needs to take action at this point; its beyond the players-- see game theory.
For the record I don't bot because its stupid but its also a fact of life and clearly CCP can't/won't act on it; which is just more incentive to bot. |
|
CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
109
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 17:50:00 -
[175] - Quote
Mallikanth wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:... I mean evidence of coordinated wrongdoing. CCP Sreegs, what do you mean by "coordinated "? It gives me the impression that because you need other people to coordinate anything then any evidence of a "lone" botter is not wanted? Surely that can't be right but I can think of no other logical meaning for the way this is phrased. A botter should be reported no matter what or who he's working with. And on a related note, can you give examples as to what classes as Evidence? Player logs definitely show nothing last time I checked. Thanks.
I'm REALLY uninterested in interfering with this thread, or its allegations. I have no opinion on them specifically and if I did the opinion would be carried out either in the action or inaction of an administrative response.
I don't really expect to get good feedback, but what I DO expect is that I can lay out for you quite clearly that we do not condone malicious behavior and that given proof of that behavior we will act on it. Some of you will say we won't, but I'm saying we will. It's really futile for me to argue with you on the internet about whether something I say is true, as only I can see what's occurring from my perspective. Getting into a war of words isn't what I'm here for.
This thread is not about the lone botter. There's a mechanism in place, that we built, for you to handle such. This thread is about allegations of organized corporate misconduct, which then had the allegation that we were somehow implicit in this misconduct attached to it.
So... the ONLY reason I even posted in this wonderful thread was to state quite categorically that our detection and action on botting activities is clinical. We're not taking sides. We're not choosing not to act because we're scared that *insert x group of players here* is going to get mad. We're acting on our results which are evidence based.
What is evidence you ask? Words on a forum aren't it. If you believe that there is some ACTION which can be examined and responded to is occurring, then I'm happy to hear what you have to say, conduct an analysis and handle things on our end. What's simply NOT going to happen is for someone to paste some text on a forum and for us to run out and ban a bunch of people. That's just crazy speak. If you suspect someone of botting, report them using the tool. If you suspect greater misconduct, email me and if I'm able to prove your allegations they'll be acted upon appropriately.
If you believe someone at CCP isn't acting appropriately, myself included, you're ENCOURAGED to report said behavior to IA. If you believe that CCP isn't acting on whomever you think should be acted on because we're somehow profiting from it I can tell you that's some tinfoil hattery. You can then call me a liar and a lot of people's time will be wasted reading it and coming away unfulfilled.
We do not believe we benefit from people cheating and when we find such behavior we act on it. We don't have to go run to the CFO every time we catch someone doing something terrible because we lack the courage or desire to deliver a level playing field.
tl;dr if you have something you think should be looked at mail it to me. |
|
Homo Erectus
Evolution The Initiative.
32
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 17:57:00 -
[176] - Quote
f the coordinated wrong and the definition rewrite. how about a 30 byte addendum to the eula with something to the effect of "we reserve to smack the **** out of groups who condone or look the other way concerning botting". I'm sure your lawyers can reword that with style.
ps. the Somethingawful children are coordinated tick spawn, just as Eve University are coordinated puppy farts (re: powerblock issue voting). |
Terh Rumnatarn
Research School of Astronomy and Astrophysics
1
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 17:59:00 -
[177] - Quote
EU penal law - some countries, but I think it applies in other parts of the world: If a person is constrained to hide a penal deed, the constrainer is likely (depending on the deed) to receive a conviction for this. The penalty can go up to equal the penal deed that is in discussion.
Here is an example: if a company hides large amounts of money made through ilegal means, and a person is found to have hidden these info being under types of pressure from above - read as "like a Mittens" - the boss guy is penalized under penal law.
Another example: drug cartel - if a drug lord constrains a street dealer to hide drug dealing deeds, it receives at least the penalty of threatening and constraining that person to ilegal deeds. (I have written in a more detailed post but the preview button is broken , all is gone and I don`t have the time to do it again).
You may argue that the EULA doesn`t cover this kind of deed. It doesn`t matter.
IF CCP doesn`t want to attract the doubt upon them, that it protects certain players and this decadent behavior that is botting, it should act. We will see if they have really changed since the summer fiasco.
Don`t let this topic die. It is a major issue. |
mkint
84
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 18:05:00 -
[178] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote:Apollo-Moor wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:Not jumping into the heated rhetorical nature of this thread I did see some comments that I'd just like to get a statement on the record about. When making determinations regarding bans for botting the alliance, corporation, political beliefs, gender or any other anecdotal information about the offender aren't taken into account. At least not in a way that would be considered a net positive to the group the botter belongs to.
Detections determine the administrative action, not corporation or alliance membership.
That being said, if we feel there's a problem pattern developing we will take action to rectify it. Alliances and corporations should not be encouraging malicious/illegal activity and if we see evidence of this occurring action will be taken. I would heartily encourage alliances and corporations not to condone illegal activities. Blue-On-Blue Violence This is a sensitive GÇô even a touchy GÇô subject, so let me say that while he is, indeed, a keen ratter GÇô a very keen ratter if we are honest GÇô we have one rule in Goonswarm: we donGÇÖt **** other goons. Oh and we donGÇÖt play cop for CCP in their own game by reporting or petitioning goons, either: But if it were the case that he had been ratting just a little too exuberantly for peoplesGÇÖ liking, or if he had offended them by consistently ignoring their conversation requests for a brief window of, say, seventeen or eighteen hours, for instance, then it would be goon-****** to report him or to kill him. This will land you and your corp in trouble as all we know is that someone shot blues. You mean something along the lines of this? No, I mean evidence of coordinated wrongdoing. Just like I said. Feel free to email said evidence to [email protected]
Big surprise. A goon defending goons.
/me still looking forward to reports of goons reporting goons getting ousted by Sreegs. Next logical step. |
Mara Tessidar
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
70
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 18:08:00 -
[179] - Quote
If Sreegs says this is a bad thread it must really be a bad thread
Or maybe he had a bad day at work, who knows. Notify: You are eaten by the Whumpus
http://goo.gl/uX5vk |
Darth Skorpius
Legion of Darkwind Order of the Void
11
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 18:24:00 -
[180] - Quote
Mr Kidd wrote:Naglfar Nidhoggur wrote:If Goon A report's Goon B's botting activity and KEEPS HIS MOUTH SHUT then how does anyone know that he reported Goon B?
Bot's are a "security" issue now. Who is on the security team? You answer that, and you'll have an answer to your question.
the security team doesnt sit there all day responding to petitions about botting, thats the gm departments job, gms are the ones whodo the actualy bot banning.
im sure some of those reprots filter through to sreegs but i doubt they include who did the reporting, as that is not information he needs to do his job, he needs info on the bots, not playerrs doing the reporting We Want Space Penguins! |
|
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
30
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 18:28:00 -
[181] - Quote
Mara Tessidar wrote:Also, Mittens doesn't represent you to CCP. He represents Goons.Which means Goons are controlling your game. Just thought I'd remind you of that.
1: For some reason I like Mittens.
2: Jokes aside, statements like that will ensure that he won't be re-elected. To kill the enemy and break their toys!
It's not so much a mission statement,-áit's more like a family motto. |
Ildur Amaenar
Epidemic Inc.
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 18:31:00 -
[182] - Quote
Mara Tessidar wrote:If Sreegs says this is a bad thread it must really be a bad thread Or maybe he had a bad day at work, who knows.
Please give it a break. It`s not like you have smth to loose if this turns bad. Only a better, bottless game.
Ofc now a goon is needed that knew a bot and was rejected from the alliance because he tried to identify it.
Giving ISKies for to betray you alliance. This ofc after a dev/gm states clearly that threatening a person not to reveal a bot is wrong doing and is punishable with ban.
|
Vertisce Soritenshi
SHADOW WARD Tragedy.
49
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 18:33:00 -
[183] - Quote
Actually...the unfortunate fact of the matter is that because the Goon powerblock is what got him elected the first time he will likely get elected again in the same way. Unless every remaining player in EvE actually votes and doesn't vote for him he will again be the chairman. |
|
CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
111
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 18:43:00 -
[184] - Quote
Homo Erectus wrote:f the coordinated wrong and the definition rewrite. how about a 30 byte addendum to the eula with something to the effect of "we reserve to smack the **** out of groups who condone or look the other way concerning botting". I'm sure your lawyers can reword that with style.
ps. the Somethingawful children are coordinated tick spawn, just as Eve University are coordinated puppy farts (re: powerblock issue voting).
We already reserve that right... |
|
Mara Tessidar
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
70
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 18:49:00 -
[185] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:Mara Tessidar wrote:Also, Mittens doesn't represent you to CCP. He represents Goons.Which means Goons are controlling your game. Just thought I'd remind you of that. 1: For some reason I like Mittens. 2: Jokes aside, statements like that will ensure that he won't be re-elected.
Yeah Goons aren't actually controlling the game and it's a rather old meme so I think it's time that one goes into the dustbin of history Notify: You are eaten by the Whumpus
http://goo.gl/uX5vk |
N1gella Laws0n
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
4
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 18:51:00 -
[186] - Quote
inb4 CCP lies, goon lies, botter lies.
Oh wait.
also sack GM Rust. He's a ******* spastic. |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
30
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 19:18:00 -
[187] - Quote
Mara Tessidar wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:Mara Tessidar wrote:Also, Mittens doesn't represent you to CCP. He represents Goons.Which means Goons are controlling your game. Just thought I'd remind you of that. 1: For some reason I like Mittens. 2: Jokes aside, statements like that will ensure that he won't be re-elected. Yeah Goons aren't actually controlling the game and it's a rather old meme so I think it's time that one goes into the dustbin of history
Edit: Yeah, if memory serves that originally was a bobism... which puts it's creation at roughly the same times as the invention of dirt. To kill the enemy and break their toys!
It's not so much a mission statement,-áit's more like a family motto. |
Barbelo Valentinian
The Scope Gallente Federation
50
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 19:29:00 -
[188] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote:
We already reserve that right...
Expression of curiosity: weren't you leader of the Goons in EVE once?
Request for verification of personal reminiscence: Didn't you claim that your aim was for the Goons to "break EVE" or something?
Eager questioning: What happened with all that, and how come you're working for CCP now - and how can we trust you that your not still interested in "breaking EVE"? |
Jita Alt666
284
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 19:34:00 -
[189] - Quote
Barbelo Valentinian wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:
We already reserve that right...
Expression of curiosity: weren't you leader of the Goons in EVE once? Request for verification of personal reminiscence: Didn't you claim that your aim was for the Goons to "break EVE" or something? Eager questioning: What happened with all that, and how come you're working for CCP now - and how can we trust you that your not still interested in "breaking EVE"?
Because the company that makes the game hired him. Or do you believe that CCP are so terrible they would actively hire people they know who are going to aim to destroy their products?
Also as he said himself : (paraphrased) "If you don't believe us that is your problem, get out side and take the tinfoil hat off"
|
Sentient Blade
Walk It Off Coalition of the Unfortunate
28
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 19:40:00 -
[190] - Quote
Surely this entire topic comes down to asking this:
Bots are often initially identified to CCP thanks to the report of a third party. If a corporation, alliance or any other coordinated group has a policy of knowingly granting safe harbor to bots by the use of in-game mechanics to protect their activities, does this equate to a rule violation by those enforcing that safe harbor policy?
--
As a side note, can someone explain to me why they think that severely reducing botting would kill off the amount of EvE subscribers? Are the majority of these botting accounts not paid for by PLEX? |
|
Jita Alt666
284
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 19:41:00 -
[191] - Quote
Sentient Blade wrote:Surely this entire topic comes down to asking this:
Bots are often initially identified to CCP thanks to the report of a third party. If a corporation, alliance or any other coordinated group has a policy of knowingly granting safe harbor to bots by the use of in-game mechanics to protect their activities, does this equate to a rule violation by those enforcing that safe harbor policy?
To which the CCP guy has said: if there is evidence email us and we will take care of this.
|
Homo Erectus
Evolution The Initiative.
34
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 19:48:00 -
[192] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote:Homo Erectus wrote:f the coordinated wrong and the definition rewrite. how about a 30 byte addendum to the eula with something to the effect of "we reserve to smack the **** out of groups who condone or look the other way concerning botting". I'm sure your lawyers can reword that with style.
ps. the Somethingawful children are coordinated tick spawn, just as Eve University are coordinated puppy farts (re: powerblock issue voting). We already reserve that right...
ok then stop with the fluffy posturing and push their stuff in. the goon memo is apples to apples and not only is it an admission of looking the other way, it's a threat of punishment if someone doesn't. and at this point you can follow up with the virtual groin kick with a real life finger to mittins. $$ in the pocket bringing them in, now you look like hostages.
i honestly dont see how you people aren't as tossed off in your ccp offices about this as we were when your internal **** got out. the csm czar supposed to be representing us to you, clowning us both.
|
Vile rat
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
190
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 19:53:00 -
[193] - Quote
Consider this an official GSF response to this garbage thread.
We do not condone botting. We think it is destructive to the game. We tell people not to bot and strongly discourage it because it's stupid and easily caught, not to mention it cheapens the effort of players who play the game the way it was meant to be. We are also not CCP's policemen. It is not our job to police botting or EULA breaking activities in the game, this is CCP's job. CCP Sreegs is doing a wonderful job policing this and we support his actions. Asking a playerbase to police EULA infractions is dumb and it is not our place. There is a report bot mechanism, we encourage people to use it. |
Weaselior
BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation
61
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 19:54:00 -
[194] - Quote
to put our policy in perspective last time there was a whole "report botters" thing we wound up with a director getting reported for botting and I think getting a temp ban
that would be fine if he hadn't been sitting in a station and hadn't shot a rat in years
goons being goons if we go "hey, feel free to report/shoot bots" we'll end up with an epidemic of blue on blue shooting and bullshit reporting so we're going to just dump it all on sgreegs lap and make him deal with it instead |
Weaselior
BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation
61
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 19:55:00 -
[195] - Quote
then he can deal with it or snort it up his nose as he seess fit |
Homo Erectus
Evolution The Initiative.
35
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 20:00:00 -
[196] - Quote
Vile rat wrote:Consider this an official GSF response to this garbage thread.
We do not condone botting. We think it is destructive to the game. We tell people not to bot and strongly discourage it because it's stupid and easily caught, not to mention it cheapens the effort of players who play the game the way it was meant to be. We are also not CCP's policemen. It is not our job to police botting or EULA breaking activities in the game, this is CCP's job. CCP Sreegs is doing a wonderful job policing this and we support his actions. Asking a playerbase to police EULA infractions is dumb and it is not our place. There is a report bot mechanism, we encourage people to use it.
wtf is wrong with you? no one said it was your job you idiot. no one thinks you wear a shiny police-style badge. but, how about this for the CSM badge you do wear (and for the other goonfgt CSM badge):
In what country on this planet do you think an elected official could get away with "I'm not a cop" when he was grilled about not picking up the phone and calling the cops when he saw a hit and run occur in front of his house? |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
30
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 20:03:00 -
[197] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:to put our policy in perspective last time there was a whole "report botters" thing we wound up with a director getting reported for botting and I think getting a temp ban
that would be fine if he hadn't been sitting in a station and hadn't shot a rat in years
goons being goons if we go "hey, feel free to report/shoot bots" we'll end up with an epidemic of blue on blue shooting and bullshit reporting so we're going to just dump it all on Sreegs lap and make him deal with it instead
I'm not casting stones specifically at goons with this, your example could be anyone as far as I'm concerned.
1: Because his main hadn't shot a rat in years doesn't mean he does'nt run bots on other accounts.
2: If he hadn't ratted in years on any of his accounts, a CCP investigation would have instantly cleared him. Apparently it did not, so your assertions are in doubt. I'd be willing to go with just not remembering the details clearly (in other words, I'm not lighting a torch and calling you a purposeful liar). To kill the enemy and break their toys!
It's not so much a mission statement,-áit's more like a family motto. |
Vile rat
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
190
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 20:06:00 -
[198] - Quote
Homo Erectus wrote:
ME CAVEMAN
The years haven't taught you class. Nor style.
|
Homo Erectus
Evolution The Initiative.
35
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 20:08:00 -
[199] - Quote
Vile rat wrote:
watch me dodge a valid point like a pro goon forum fgt
observed
|
Weaselior
BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation
61
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 20:10:00 -
[200] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:Weaselior wrote:to put our policy in perspective last time there was a whole "report botters" thing we wound up with a director getting reported for botting and I think getting a temp ban
that would be fine if he hadn't been sitting in a station and hadn't shot a rat in years
goons being goons if we go "hey, feel free to report/shoot bots" we'll end up with an epidemic of blue on blue shooting and bullshit reporting so we're going to just dump it all on Sreegs lap and make him deal with it instead I'm not casting stones specifically at goons with this, your example could be anyone as far as I'm concerned. 1: Because his main hadn't shot a rat in years doesn't mean he does'nt run bots on other accounts. 2: If he hadn't ratted in years on any of his accounts, a CCP investigation would have instantly cleared him. Apparently it did not, so your assertions are in doubt. I'd be willing to go with just not remembering the details clearly (in other words, I'm not lighting a torch and calling you a purposeful liar).
I think he got hosed by a 'temp ban first, investigate later' sort of thing, which would be in line with a lot of internal complaining about people who have fallen afoul of ccp when they shouldn't have
i mean our finances are public you can see for yourself we couldn't care less how much people rat, legitimately or not: we have technetium (and a lot of it) and ratting income is just a handy faucet for keeping the main wallet at a good level while tech income is directed elsewhere
in other words, it saves me a single "transfer money" command every week or two, that's about it |
|
Mendolus
Aurelius Federation
48
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 20:12:00 -
[201] - Quote
Homo Erectus wrote: wtf is wrong with you? no one said it was your job you idiot. no one thinks you wear a shiny police-style badge. but, how about this for the CSM badge you do wear (and for the other goonfgt CSM badge):
In what country on this planet do you think an elected official could get away with "I'm not a cop" when he was grilled about not picking up the phone and calling the cops when he saw a hit and run occur in front of his house?
Homo Erectus wrote:Vile rat wrote:
watch me dodge a valid point like a pro goon forum fgt
observed
/facepalm
While there are evidently quite a number of us that believe botting is a rampant problem in today's EVE and that we should ALL be doing more to stamp it out, please, don't do us any favors H.E., with friends like you, who needs enemies?
TLDR You are making the rest of us look bad, please stop. ...clearly the Ishukone Watch Scorpion is the fifth horseman of the Apocalypse, i.e. the Brown Rider, otherwise known as Poopie. |
Homo Erectus
Evolution The Initiative.
41
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 20:18:00 -
[202] - Quote
i'm no one's friend and as vile rat knows i've never tried to be.
but don't alt-backup a goon csm post when they get called out. you put on the csm badge, don't pull the "we're not policemen"
No, you're not, and no one said you were, and no one elected you to be. But leading a 50,000,000 conglomeration of zombies with a "we're not policemen, and look the other way at blue bots" doesn't make anyone with 2 eyes happy. |
Vile rat
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
192
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 20:29:00 -
[203] - Quote
Homo Erectus wrote:i'm no one's friend and as vile rat knows i've never tried to be.
but don't alt-backup a goon csm post when they get called out. you put on the csm badge, don't pull the "we're not policemen"
No, you're not, and no one said you were, and no one elected you to be. But leading a 50,000,000 conglomeration of zombies with a "we're not policemen, and look the other way at blue bots" doesn't make anyone with 2 eyes happy.
Are you suggesting I allow our guys to take the law into their own hands and shoot allies based on their own opinions? "this jerk who keeps hanging around my ratting spot sure rats a lot, but I want this system I'll say he was a bot and take him out!"
This is not something I condone. Report bots. They have the technical ability to get rid of these jerks. I'm not interested in arbitrating drama. |
Mendolus
Aurelius Federation
48
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 20:37:00 -
[204] - Quote
Homo Erectus wrote:i'm no one's friend and as vile rat knows i've never tried to be.
but don't alt-backup a goon csm post when they get called out. you put on the csm badge, don't pull the "we're not policemen"
No, you're not, and no one said you were, and no one elected you to be. But leading a 50,000,000 conglomeration of zombies with a "we're not policemen, and look the other way at blue bots" doesn't make anyone with 2 eyes happy.
Yes, I'm a Goonie alt, you got me!
Just a second, I fell out of my chair and seem to have pulled a muscle laughing.
As Vile pointed out, giving thousands of players the green light to riddle one another with bullets (in game) for the blanket reason of "they were surely botting!" is nothing short of lunacy.
I do not directly know what goes on with botting at the coalition level, I only know what seems to make sense from a conjectural point of view, and secondhand accounts from people I know, but at the public level, they (Goonies) are just playing with fire, and nothing more, basically the only choice they have to be honest.
Player organizations cannot function in the long term without solidarity of some kind, and giving thousands of players permission to pummel one another for any reason imaginable under the guise of what would amount to a witch hunt, is pretty absurd.
They are taking the lesser of two evils, but Mittani likes making cool story posts, which means people who think or take him at 100% face value are likely to misunderstand the point entirely.
What goes on behind the scenes is anyone's guess, but publicly they have done nothing wrong as far as I am concerned, though I would love if the thousands of members of GSF were capable of policing themselves at an individual level, I have no illusions that hundreds and hundreds of those same members probably have the mental faculties of a goldfish and would just run around shooting anyone that appears to be a carebear at all just for the lulz, so let the high command sort through it all and send it in a big lump report to CCP directly, as noted. ...clearly the Ishukone Watch Scorpion is the fifth horseman of the Apocalypse, i.e. the Brown Rider, otherwise known as Poopie. |
Contemno Addo
United Tactical Operations and Manufacturing Externus Hostis
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 20:41:00 -
[205] - Quote
Vile rat wrote:Are you suggesting I allow our guys to take the law into their own hands and shoot allies based on their own opinions? "this jerk who keeps hanging around my ratting spot sure rats a lot, but I want this system I'll say he was a bot and take him out!"
This is not something I condone. Report bots. They have the technical ability to get rid of these jerks. I'm not interested in arbitrating drama.
absolutely not what I am suggesting rat. you guys aren't stupid, and you are pretty f'n good at the name and shame game on the series of tubes. but not coming out and blatantly saying "yea the whole look the other way thing was off" is bs. trying to hide behind the goonswarm fleet tag while you wear a csm tag is also bs. botting is in and out of this universe so tackle it on both sides.
keep in mind 2 things:
1) I think it safe to say anyone who knows me knows I hope your in game group of goons dies in a massive lag fire (in game) 2) I want Eve to suck less so I can enjoy it more. If that means I support Goon CSM attempting to make it better, #1 doesn't matter.
If you are looking to box me in with a suggestion you can ****, fine, I'll play. Here's what would happen with a huge alliance I was at the top of, whether i was wearing a CSM tag or not:
Suggest folks report them to you first. Since you've got 7 billion pilots, maybe 5 can step up and give a crap to go through the tiny amount of goonblues actually reporting any goonblue bots. Do about 2 minutes of investigating for yourself, then you do the report bot. Name and shame the ungodly f out of them. Pod and kick.
Yes CCP could probably fix this problem in about 10 minutes if they prioritized to it. Obviously they haven't. So until they do, be part of the solution group instead of part of the "goons look the other way" group. And the more I see you guys only doing what's best for the game when it's best for you or makes you look chipper, the more I want to break you in half. |
Satav
Latinum Exports
26
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 20:43:00 -
[206] - Quote
Mara Tessidar wrote:I missed the part where it said "Don't report bots." Can you bold it for me?
Omg. You're so fracking dumb. It's perfectly obvious. Do I have to spell it out for you?
Y O U A R E B L I N D.
or i could say, "You have a hard time seeing don't you?" (sarcasm)
See? i said the same thing. Try understanding the english language before you open your mouth again. |
Psychophantic
38
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 20:46:00 -
[207] - Quote
Goonswarm doth protest too much, methinks. |
Homo Erectus
Evolution The Initiative.
41
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 20:47:00 -
[208] - Quote
^^ obviously my alt btw sorry- headed for recruiting fora
|
Cydori
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 20:47:00 -
[209] - Quote
Vile rat wrote: We do not condone botting. We think it is destructive to the game. We tell people not to bot and strongly discourage it because it's stupid and easily caught, not to mention it cheapens the effort of players who play the game the way it was meant to be. We are also not CCP's policemen. It is not our job to police botting or EULA breaking activities in the game, this is CCP's job. CCP Sreegs is doing a wonderful job policing this and we support his actions. Asking a playerbase to police EULA infractions is dumb and it is not our place. There is a report bot mechanism, we encourage people to use it.
Your alliance and its members have went to great lengths to convince the rest of EVE that Goons are practiced liars and are never to be trusted under any circumstances. And, over a period of years, we've learned this painful lesson well.
So allow me the conceit of speaking for all non Goons in EVE Online: We don't believe you. You and your CSM chairman, like all Goons, are practiced liars and proud of that fact. Short of outright insanity, what possible motivation would any of us have to believe a word you say now?
The end.
P.S. CCP's willful ignorance of what goes on in its own game is, sadly, of no great surprise. So I take CCP Screegs at his word when he says CCP has no intent of taking any meaningful action unless presented with irrefutable evidence of a coordinated RMT scheme at the corp/alliance level. Which is exactly what all of us expected of CCP prior to this dreary and depressing "debate" about a problem which is manifestly evident to everyone with a functioning brain stem, but which somehow continually seems to elude CCP. The only logical conclusion is that all is working as intended. |
Mara Tessidar
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
76
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 20:48:00 -
[210] - Quote
Satav wrote:Angry, angry words
I don't see any bolded text. I do see CCP Sreegs and Vile Rat both saying that this thread is stupid, though. Notify: You are eaten by the Whumpus
http://goo.gl/uX5vk |
|
Satav
Latinum Exports
26
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 20:51:00 -
[211] - Quote
Vernn Miller wrote:I must have missed that part in the EULA that says alliances have to enforce CCP`s laws.
Also, the copy pasta you quoted makes no mention of any botting activities, it just reminds members of a certain alliance and coalition of alliances not to shoot blues if they hoard all the havens or sanctums in a system for a large amount of time. Large entities have their own rules and if you fail to respect them I think it`s fair to get the boot.
If you want to do some good in regards to botting, fly to some major mission hubs and have a look on dscan for CNRs that belong to characters not even two months old and are in a 1 man player corporation with 0% tax.
And stop being a ******.
No, we don't have to enfore CCP's laws. But we do obey them and don't condone those who break them.
Yes, we respect each alliances way to run their group, cause that's just how they want to do it and if you don't like it then theres the door. (This is irrelevant when you openly tell people not to report someone that is known to bot. In effect, you're telling them to break the EULA to stay in the "brotherhood.")
All the TEST and GSF postes here confirm that they think that this is "their" eve and that they can do whatever they want. And all the posts are obviously deliberately denying the truth and acting like something doesn't exist.
Personally, i gave up on CCP being effective against botters a long time ago, so i now blast ratting and mining bots out ot the sky all the time because apparently there is so much corruption that nothing will ever get done about it. |
Satav
Latinum Exports
26
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 20:56:00 -
[212] - Quote
Mara Tessidar wrote:Satav wrote:Angry, angry words I don't see any bolded text. I do see CCP Sreegs and Vile Rat both saying that this thread is stupid, though.
Update for you,
This isn't the Italian mob. No one is above the law.
I didn't right angry words. I wrote true words, which is more than i can say for anyone i've ever talked to in GS.
Truth hurts don't it?
Gives me the feeling of deja vu when BOB thought that because several of their leaders worked at CCP that they could do whatever they wanted and could get away with it.
Recall history, dude. "Calling in you big dogs" won't work. Not anymore.
Go fail troll someone else, like " give us your freighters" thread. |
N1gella Laws0n
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
4
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 20:59:00 -
[213] - Quote
inb4 CCP lies, Goon lies, botter lies...
oh wait...
also, sack GM Rust, he could be more useless, I just can't figure out how. |
Mara Tessidar
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
76
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 21:00:00 -
[214] - Quote
Where, oh where, did you read that Goons were "Above the law" outside of the OP? A CCP employee has told you that is not the case. Vile Rat has told you that is not the case. What, pray tell, leads you to the conclusion that Goons are a giant botting alliance that refuses to follow the EULA and gets away with it? Notify: You are eaten by the Whumpus
http://goo.gl/uX5vk |
Homo Erectus
Evolution The Initiative.
41
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 21:15:00 -
[215] - Quote
I think you're missing the irritation. If best I could quote the wtf it would be:
GoonSwarm Federation Alliance Update wrote:we have one rule in Goonswarm: we donGÇÖt **** other goons.
and
Vile rat wrote:Consider this an official GSF response to this garbage thread.
We do not condone botting. We think it is destructive to the game.
So if a goon was being destructive to the game, would you break your one rule? If you throw in the repeated "we are not police" blow-offs, what do you think people think the answer to that question would be? |
Cypermethren
Celtic Cartage And Hauling
9
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 21:58:00 -
[216] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote:Mallikanth wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:... I mean evidence of coordinated wrongdoing. CCP Sreegs, what do you mean by "coordinated "? It gives me the impression that because you need other people to coordinate anything then any evidence of a "lone" botter is not wanted? Surely that can't be right but I can think of no other logical meaning for the way this is phrased. A botter should be reported no matter what or who he's working with. And on a related note, can you give examples as to what classes as Evidence? Player logs definitely show nothing last time I checked. Thanks. I'm REALLY uninterested in interfering with this thread, or its allegations. I have no opinion on them specifically and if I did the opinion would be carried out either in the action or inaction of an administrative response. I don't really expect to get good feedback, but what I DO expect is that I can lay out for you quite clearly that we do not condone malicious behavior and that given proof of that behavior we will act on it. Some of you will say we won't, but I'm saying we will. It's really futile for me to argue with you on the internet about whether something I say is true, as only I can see what's occurring from my perspective. Getting into a war of words isn't what I'm here for. This thread is not about the lone botter. There's a mechanism in place, that we built, for you to handle such. This thread is about allegations of organized corporate misconduct, which then had the allegation that we were somehow implicit in this misconduct attached to it. So... the ONLY reason I even posted in this wonderful thread was to state quite categorically that our detection and action on botting activities is clinical. We're not taking sides. We're not choosing not to act because we're scared that *insert x group of players here* is going to get mad. We're acting on our results which are evidence based. What is evidence you ask? Words on a forum aren't it. If you believe that there is some ACTION which can be examined and responded to is occurring, then I'm happy to hear what you have to say, conduct an analysis and handle things on our end. What's simply NOT going to happen is for someone to paste some text on a forum and for us to run out and ban a bunch of people. That's just crazy speak. If you suspect someone of botting, report them using the tool. If you suspect greater misconduct, email me and if I'm able to prove your allegations they'll be acted upon appropriately. If you believe someone at CCP isn't acting appropriately, myself included, you're ENCOURAGED to report said behavior to IA. If you believe that CCP isn't acting on whomever you think should be acted on because we're somehow profiting from it I can tell you that's some tinfoil hattery. You can then call me a liar and a lot of people's time will be wasted reading it and coming away unfulfilled. We do not believe we benefit from people cheating and when we find such behavior we act on it. We don't have to go run to the CFO every time we catch someone doing something terrible because we lack the courage or desire to deliver a level playing field. tl;dr if you have something you think should be looked at mail it to me.
Nice. Very nice CCP.
So youv'e just said that you're not going to take action against people which you know damn well are botting/RMT, untill WE THE PLAYERS bring YOU evidance.
In the meantime, we can have CSM's making posts that even a ******** chimp understands is telling goonswarm members to leave the other goonswarm botters alone as it causes alot of internal and external BS/Drama, both confirming that he knows its happening and requesting others that know about it to keep quiet or face the wrath of the boot.
When a CSM is elected to represent the community, you make them sign NDA's. Do you realy not care or did not put any precautions in to stop you're CSM's from completely badmouthing/giving you're game an even more tarnished name?
What will you do CCP if you dont give a CSM what they've been pushing for - and CSM decides to get even with you - not by breaking the EULA but by leaking more internal stuff - such as more in-depth proof of you/CCP's "look the other way" policy with botters.
You're an absolute discrace, Scraag, to come here to tell us if we want something done about the obvious/rampant RMT/BOT issue - and people of power (coughCSM) decide to make a public post which RUBS IT IN OUR FACE, then turn around and tell us you're not going to do anything untill we provide you with the necessary evidance to remove them? No wonder subscribers are dropping like flies.
Way to go to furher proove that you cater to specific alliances, are in the know to exactly what they are doing, and making excuses as to why you cant/wont do anything about it.
Had this story been about a person whom Bots/RMT's in a smaller, lesser known alliance that did not have a CSM in their midsts you would have jumped at the oportunity to make a story about it to prove to us players that you're keeping you're word and doing what the playerbase wants.
Instead, because of all the bad wrap and utter hell that will follow if the true workings of your're head CSM in regards to their botting/RMT ventures you choose to ignore it - the same reasons you've been ignoring alot of **** that has lost you so many subscribers in the first place. You choose to ignore things that you feel are too difficult to handle under the reasoning that players will eventualy forget and rage about something else.
Absolutely Pathetic, CCP. |
captain foivos
State War Academy Caldari State
3
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 22:08:00 -
[217] - Quote
Obviously the conclusion we can draw from this is that T20 still works at CCP and all of the devs are busy botting with Goonswarm characters. There's no other possible explanation. |
Desert Ice78
Gryphon River Industries R-I-P
6
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 22:16:00 -
[218] - Quote
Vile rat wrote:Consider this an official GSF response to this garbage thread.
We do not condone botting. We think it is destructive to the game. We tell people not to bot and strongly discourage it because it's stupid and easily caught, not to mention it cheapens the effort of players who play the game the way it was meant to be. We are also not CCP's policemen. It is not our job to police botting or EULA breaking activities in the game, this is CCP's job. CCP Sreegs is doing a wonderful job policing this and we support his actions. Asking a playerbase to police EULA infractions is dumb and it is not our place. There is a report bot mechanism, we encourage people to use it.
I call utter Bullshit.
Even a casual comparison between this statement and the original internal GSF communication shows how farcical your denials are. I am a Pod Pilot:
http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1109/Hostile-Takeover-by-Marek-Okon[1].jpg
|
Vardec Crom
Skyforger Tactical Narcotics Team
6
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 22:18:00 -
[219] - Quote
The Apostle wrote:We all know it goes on. We all ***** and complain and moan about it. But THIS drew my ire. GoonSwarm Federation Alliance Update GÇô September 28th Quote:Blue-On-Blue Violence
This is a sensitive GÇô even a touchy GÇô subject, so let me say that while he is, indeed, a keen ratter GÇô a very keen ratter if we are honest GÇô we have one rule in Goonswarm: we donGÇÖt **** other goons. Oh and we donGÇÖt play cop for CCP in their own game by reporting or petitioning goons, either:
But if it were the case that he had been ratting just a little too exuberantly for peoplesGÇÖ liking, or if he had offended them by consistently ignoring their conversation requests for a brief window of, say, seventeen or eighteen hours, for instance, then it would be goon-****** to report him or to kill him. This will land you and your corp in trouble as all we know is that someone shot blues. So at what point does an alliance, with it's head as THE CSM CHAIRMAN, allow bots, WHICH IS AGAINST THE EULA, and ACTIVELY THREATEN MEMBERS WITH EXPULSION if they should report said bots. I know for a fact that several corps/alliances have a zero tolerance for bots, including a DekCo kiss buddy alliance called FA. Hoorah to Zag for that! But for Goons to threaten expulsion flies directly in the face of the EULA. Surely even encouraging/harbouring such activity must be embedded into the EULA immediately. NO-ONE should have ANY tolerance for bots let alone SUPPORT them. I call on CCP to start banning CORPS and ALLIANCES for ACTIVELY ENCOURAGING botting, knowingly and in the face of it being downright illegal ingame. And for the sensible Goons (are there any?), if you think you can be threatened with expulsion for bot-reporting, just remember that no CEO will know, or can know, if you reported the cheating, thieving SOB!!
Yep Ban 8000 accounts. HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAH
|
Seymore Graves
The New Era C0NVICTED
1
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 22:19:00 -
[220] - Quote
This thread is fantastic. |
|
Barbelo Valentinian
The Scope Gallente Federation
50
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 22:32:00 -
[221] - Quote
Jita Alt666 wrote:Barbelo Valentinian wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:
We already reserve that right...
Expression of curiosity: weren't you leader of the Goons in EVE once? Request for verification of personal reminiscence: Didn't you claim that your aim was for the Goons to "break EVE" or something? Eager questioning: What happened with all that, and how come you're working for CCP now - and how can we trust you that your not still interested in "breaking EVE"? Because the company that makes the game hired him. Or do you believe that CCP are so terrible they would actively hire people they know who are going to aim to destroy their products?
"Terrible"? I don't think that's quite the right word. "Silly"? Perhaps.
After all, the game has been going somewhat downhill since ex-Goons were majorly involved.
In the clear light of day, it seems singularly bizarre that a company would hire someone who had previously claimed that his aim was to "break EVE". To put him in charge of security seems the height of absurdity.
Are we supposed to just forget all about that?
You don't think it would be a bit of a jolly jape to bring down an MMO? Especially if you got paid for doing it? |
Mendolus
Aurelius Federation
48
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 22:41:00 -
[222] - Quote
Barbelo Valentinian wrote: In the clear light of day, it seems singularly bizarre that a company would hire someone who had previously claimed that his aim was to "break EVE". To put him in charge of security seems the height of absurdity.
Are we supposed to just forget all about that?
That's a rather naive outlook in the grand scheme of things I think, sort of the way felons in real life get branded as violent criminals in society even if they committed a victimless crime like growing too much herb for personal use in their own backyards or something.
It's all a matter of perception, in some sense, Sreegs would be the perfect person to take charge of security, being that he may very well have been poking at and learning its ins and outs, weaknesses, shortcomings, and loopholes of EVE Online for years before he was hired, who else would know better from a player perspective where the weak spots are?
CCP probably pays good money to have a guy who once tried to pry his way into those nooks and crannies instead now filling them up with putty, so to speak.
Money is the great motivator after all, you think someone would choose the joy of dismantling an online video game over food on the table? I don't, unless they're mentally or emotionally unstable, or have some other such extenuating circumstances. ...clearly the Ishukone Watch Scorpion is the fifth horseman of the Apocalypse, i.e. the Brown Rider, otherwise known as Poopie. |
Kengutsi Akira
GloboTech Industries
14
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 22:46:00 -
[223] - Quote
The Apostle wrote:Oh and we donGÇÖt play cop for CCP in their own game by reporting or petitioning goons, either
bolded for the ostriches who cant read
Quote: In the clear light of day, it seems singularly bizarre that a company would hire someone who had previously claimed that his aim was to "break EVE". To put him in charge of security seems the height of absurdity.
Are we supposed to just forget all about that?
I believe the original quote was they dont want to destroy THE game, just YOUR game. |
The Apostle
The Black Priests
137
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 22:47:00 -
[224] - Quote
OK. I'm out of bed and I see this post has gone on a bit longer than I expected. Some of the reactions are sad but expected. I also understand the bias appearing. I need it back on track. This is obviously a hot item and I'd like to see something good come of it.
Can we get a TL;DR'd by a CSM/Goon and CCP Screegs.
There are 2 areas I need clarified.
A) From CSM Vile Rat - Goon
Quote:Asking a playerbase to police EULA infractions is dumb and it is not our place. There is a report bot mechanism, we encourage people to use it. First you're saying that it is NOT up to the playerbase. So why bother declaring a policy asking members to report botting ONLY to diplos?
Then you state you encourage reporting. Well look. This has clearly been refuted. I am not going to quote/quote/quote this to infinity. Goons clearly state that reporting is Goon****ing and will neccessitate a boot. Even if this is "refuted" with clever wordplay it clearly does NOT encourage reporting.
I understand not shooting blue-on-blue. Goons/anyone have every right to discourage that practise. That part is not at issue.
So short version. i) If you don't care about bots why have a policy AT ALL? ii) Why did the OP specifically state that REPORTING bots is Goon****ing if you ENCOURAGE reporting?
B) To CCP Screegs "If evidence" please report bla bla. We all know that 99% of 0.0, and specifically around Goontown is a no go zone to any bot hunters. How is this evidence to be determined? ONLY way I see is proactive CCP intervention or by alliance members reporting?
For CCP to be proactive, I understand how difficult and costly it is to track bots so I accept it's a difficult task for CCP despite the naysayers.
What I don't get is how you point-blank refuse to acknowledge the intent of the OP (in fact you go so far as to belittle the intent of this topic which I take exception to).
I completely understand the need to remain objective and not being swayed on internet topics but the content and intent of the OP is very specific. I'm ignoring how it has been discussed, heated or otherwise.
What I need (or we?) 1) Someone in CCP needs to categorically clarify the rules where an alliance has said their members CANNOT report a bot.
I have personally been in trouble for threatening to use the petioning system. I suspect that threatening to prevent use of the petition is just as (if not more so) damaging to the integrity and intent of said system
2) Someone in CCP needs to categorically clarify the rules where corps/alliances harbour/secure bottting and deliberately obfuscate attempts by members to report said bots.
It is this very public declaration of intent by an alliance (heavily CSM orientated) that sends an absolute and definitively bad message to everyone, in AND out of game. THAT is the part that needs to be addressed. Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo! |
Kengutsi Akira
GloboTech Industries
14
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 22:52:00 -
[225] - Quote
Its pretty obvious, CCP are unwilling to ban paying players (bots) themselves so theyre putting the power into the hands of the players (who refuse to do CCP's dirty work for them).
so CCP endorses botting :D
They just cant say that outright or ppl will rage |
Cypermethren
Celtic Cartage And Hauling
9
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 22:52:00 -
[226] - Quote
Vile rat wrote:Homo Erectus wrote:i'm no one's friend and as vile rat knows i've never tried to be.
but don't alt-backup a goon csm post when they get called out. you put on the csm badge, don't pull the "we're not policemen"
No, you're not, and no one said you were, and no one elected you to be. But leading a 50,000,000 conglomeration of zombies with a "we're not policemen, and look the other way at blue bots" doesn't make anyone with 2 eyes happy. Are you suggesting I allow our guys to take the law into their own hands and shoot allies based on their own opinions? "this jerk who keeps hanging around my ratting spot sure rats a lot, but I want this system I'll say he was a bot and take him out!" This is not something I condone. Report bots. They have the technical ability to get rid of these jerks. I'm not interested in arbitrating drama.
Stop twisting the origional statement
The origional statement speficily entailed to NOT shoot the BOTTING Players ("extreamly keen ratters....that may notreply to pm's for 13-18 hours at a time...") And at the same time that you're not police for CCP.
So yes - in part your'e statement is true - No big alliance wants players starting to shoot other players because it will cause a diplomatic nightmare, cause corps within the alliance to break off and leave , or worse stay and cause more drama because they wont work together.
But you're trying to swing the focus away from the SINGLE POINT IN THIS THREAD THAT PEOPLE ARE PISSED OFF ABOUT.
You told you're members NOT to "play cop" for CCP, meaning you do not want you're members reporting other members for botting, as it will cause teh same ****, plus way more because of you're CSM position/involvements in the matter.
God this game you and CCP are playing shitts me.
It's like going to you're boss about a position advertised at you're work - you ask them hey if X person was to apply would you be less interested in tehm because of their Age or certain work experience - and you're told right then to your'e face that it doesnt matter if you're black, white,blue, man, woman, shehe, abbo, brit or aussie, that you have the exact same chances of getting the job.
But when it comes down to the actual matter peoples personal feelings, preferences and tastes are what decides who gets the job, nothing to do with the actual facts which you stated that you go after.
The entire world runs off this bullshit notion - say one thing do another. Us consumers are not retards, you rubbing "this is what we realy do" when we know you do differently when push comes to shove - thinking us idiots that will believe it infuriates us more.
Cut the crap - you're digging yourselves a deeper hole.
|
Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
20
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 22:59:00 -
[227] - Quote
Dunbar Hulan wrote:Storm in a tea cup.
Relatively speaking, maybe so--I mean, they all do it, and we all know it, and we all know why they continue to get away with it--but this is just another symptom, not the disease. And if you'll pardon the mixed metaphor, the Pandora's Box of the actual disease has been wide-freakin-open for a long, long, time.
And now, I'll play the Devil's advocate for a bit:
I think one potential problem here is, that the EULA--as far as I know/recall--doesn't explicitly state:
1) What constitutes knowledge and/or approval of botting/other cheats 2) If, and if so, then how that constitutes being an "accessory before and/or after the fact" 3) What the penalties for same should be, or if there even should be penalties for it?
regarding these, how do you prove this? In that sense, there should also be an explicit section in the EULA defining how Alliances/corps can, and why they must, "police themselves" strictly, with harsh penalties for non-compliance.
But again, how to explicitly prove this? This is absolutely critical in the case of (2), especially.
TL/DR:
We do need explicit rules defining the role of non-botters in an organisation that is known/can be proven to be botting, and what, if any, penalties should be applied to them for not reporting them.
But:
I don't know if this is realistically possible, to be quite honest, given that evidence of botting is fundamentally circumstantial in nature, and that one "tacitly approving" of same is a purely subjective perception on the part of another--hello, potential for gross abuse, here??
|
Kengutsi Akira
GloboTech Industries
14
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 23:00:00 -
[228] - Quote
Youd think being a CSM, endorsing not reporting ppl that are obviously botting would... matter cause you know... the CSM... matters
oh yeah... |
Simetraz
State War Academy Caldari State
69
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 23:00:00 -
[229] - Quote
The Apostle wrote: .......
You need to let this go. This topic would have gone alot farther and been alot more productive if you would have not pointed fingers. Even your title is set up to inflame, you could have said 0.0 Alliance "legalising" Botting!!
Nobody is argueing that what was done was questionable. But that is CCP's call on what to do about it and if it is bannable. You need to report it and move on.
Capitals (Balancing and Roles) |
Zirse
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
76
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 23:05:00 -
[230] - Quote
Do people seriously expect CCP to act on a leaked post from a private forum?
tl;dr
Goons exploit grey areas of EULA, more news to follow at 11.
Now please let this pants-on-head retardation die already. |
|
Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
20
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 23:06:00 -
[231] - Quote
SmashTech wrote:I could've guessed from the title that this was going to be a BoB-fest but jeeze oh man this exceeded all my expectations. I mean seriously: Goons "legalising" botting!! You sorry pubbie.
Are you just trolling, or are you truly this dense and myopic? |
Kengutsi Akira
GloboTech Industries
14
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 23:08:00 -
[232] - Quote
How did this thread make it this far in the first place? I could be wrong but calling out a corp on the forums usually gets threads locked |
SmashTech
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
1
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 23:10:00 -
[233] - Quote
Tarryn Nightstorm wrote:Are you just trolling, or are you truly this dense and myopic?
Take a guess, given the quality of this thread. |
Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
20
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 23:12:00 -
[234] - Quote
Mara Tessidar wrote:Post when you have a picture and aren't in the starter NPC corporation.
Post with your main, Mittens.
|
SmashTech
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
1
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 23:13:00 -
[235] - Quote
Don't feed Mara's ego by comparing him to Our Dear Leader |
Richard Hammond II
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
54
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 23:14:00 -
[236] - Quote
SmashTech wrote:Tarryn Nightstorm wrote:Are you just trolling, or are you truly this dense and myopic? Take a guess, given the quality of this thread.
Im guessing trolling, cause thats all Goons ever do They dont seem to get snipped for doing it either. I wanna be a Goon so I can do whatever I want on the forums an not get moderated too! They hired actual clothing designers for WiS clothes "no wonder the monocle cost $80, they had to pay royalties" Screw "FiS" its called EVE CCP |
SmashTech
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
1
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 23:16:00 -
[237] - Quote
That's not true, they censored one of our favorite peoples' names from the forums and permabanned him.
Because that was a totally effective method of damage control. Really, it was. Mad props to whoever came up with that idea. |
Stella SGP
The Kimotoro Initiative
7
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 23:18:00 -
[238] - Quote
Vile rat wrote:Consider this an official GSF response to this garbage thread.
We do not condone botting. We think it is destructive to the game. We tell people not to bot and strongly discourage it because it's stupid and easily caught, not to mention it cheapens the effort of players who play the game the way it was meant to be. We are also not CCP's policemen. It is not our job to police botting or EULA breaking activities in the game, this is CCP's job. CCP Sreegs is doing a wonderful job policing this and we support his actions. Asking a playerbase to police EULA infractions is dumb and it is not our place. There is a report bot mechanism, we encourage people to use it. And this is exactly why null-sec is botting heaven compared to hi-sec.
|
Gaia Ma'chello
V.I.C.E.
1
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 23:19:00 -
[239] - Quote
Vile rat wrote:Consider this an official GSF response to this garbage thread.
We do not condone botting. We think it is destructive to the game. We tell people not to bot and strongly discourage it because it's stupid and easily caught, not to mention it cheapens the effort of players who play the game the way it was meant to be. We are also not CCP's policemen. It is not our job to police botting or EULA breaking activities in the game, this is CCP's job. CCP Sreegs is doing a wonderful job policing this and we support his actions. Asking a playerbase to police EULA infractions is dumb and it is not our place. There is a report bot mechanism, we encourage people to use it.
People who do bad things have been known to lie on internet forums. |
Brooson
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 23:21:00 -
[240] - Quote
Goonswarm is actually a giant alliance run completely by bots all controlled by Mittani. |
|
SmashTech
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
1
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 23:21:00 -
[241] - Quote
Not to take sides in this "Goons are terrible RMTers with a huge bot army" argument or anything, but have any of you considered that Goonswarm keeps their finances publicly available?
edit: I am also a mittani posting-bot. |
Richard Hammond II
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
54
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 23:22:00 -
[242] - Quote
SmashTech wrote:That's not true, they censored one of our favorite peoples' names from the forums and permabanned him.
Because that was a totally effective method of damage control. Really, it was. Mad props to whoever came up with that idea.
**********? He wasnt a goon was he?
edit: lol dude's name was banned in 2006 an its still filtered - way to hold a grudge guys
and anyways Im talking more recent. Ive seen your magnificent leader or w/e you call mittens trolling, openly, admitting that he was trolling, and no moderation. OTHER ppl get it but the ppl openly admitting that theyre doing it dont lol They hired actual clothing designers for WiS clothes "no wonder the monocle cost $80, they had to pay royalties" Screw "FiS" its called EVE CCP |
The Apostle
The Black Priests
139
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 23:24:00 -
[243] - Quote
Quote:You need to let this go. This topic would have gone alot farther and been alot more productive if you would have not pointed fingers. Even your title is set up to inflame, you could have said 0.0 Alliance "legalising" Botting!!
Nobody is argueing that what was done was questionable. But that is CCP's call on what to do about it and if it is bannable. You need to report it and move on.
Yes of course.
Except that this topic has over 200 replies and nearly 3000 views. Attempts have been made to repeatedly dumb it down and dissipate the topic at hand.
And yet the question still remains....
Should the Goons (or ANY alliance) be allowed to
1) Threaten players for reporting? 2) Even address the issue of reporting bots internally when the EULA is CCP v Individual. 3) Knowingly harbour/support and secure ground for bots?
And CCP has not clarified the position on ALLIANCE intervention and involvement in EULA issues.
btw: I could give 100 analogies where refusing to acknowledge/address/act/report or indeed to participate in an illegal activity is deemed as legalising by proxy - it's perception based. My title stands. I have also explained my title in an earlier post. Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo! |
Emiko P'eng
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 23:24:00 -
[244] - Quote
Cypermethren wrote: But parking on a yellow line isnt hurting anyone.
As some one whose Grandmother nearly died after she collapsed in M&S, due to a car parked on 'Double Yellow Lines' which held up the ambulance for over 15 minutes!
If it wasn't for the paramedic running almost half a mile and passer bys helping by lifting the car out the way she would DEAD!
Parking on double yellow lines can risk other peoples lives by stopping ambulances, fire engines and other emergency vehicles from getting by!
So next time do some research before making inane stupid comments!
The same goes for 'Double Parking'
News.Scotrsman. com - Ban double parking please
|
Aryndel Vyst
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
82
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 23:26:00 -
[245] - Quote
SREEGS |
Richard Hammond II
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
54
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 23:26:00 -
[246] - Quote
Vile rat wrote:Consider this an official GSF response to this garbage thread.
We do not condone botting. We think it is destructive to the game. We tell people not to bot and strongly discourage it because it's stupid and easily caught, not to mention it cheapens the effort of players who play the game the way it was meant to be. We are also not CCP's policemen. It is not our job to police botting or EULA breaking activities in the game, this is CCP's job. CCP Sreegs is doing a wonderful job policing this and we support his actions. Asking a playerbase to police EULA infractions is dumb and it is not our place. There is a report bot mechanism, we encourage people to use it.
*slow clap* This is a perfect example of a politician Can anyone else see him talking out both sides of his mouth here?
They hired actual clothing designers for WiS clothes "no wonder the monocle cost $80, they had to pay royalties" Screw "FiS" its called EVE CCP |
Aryndel Vyst
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
82
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 23:26:00 -
[247] - Quote
I said SREEGS |
Aryndel Vyst
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
82
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 23:27:00 -
[248] - Quote
Richard Hammond II wrote:Vile rat wrote:Consider this an official GSF response to this garbage thread.
We do not condone botting. We think it is destructive to the game. We tell people not to bot and strongly discourage it because it's stupid and easily caught, not to mention it cheapens the effort of players who play the game the way it was meant to be. We are also not CCP's policemen. It is not our job to police botting or EULA breaking activities in the game, this is CCP's job. CCP Sreegs is doing a wonderful job policing this and we support his actions. Asking a playerbase to police EULA infractions is dumb and it is not our place. There is a report bot mechanism, we encourage people to use it. *slow clap* This is a perfect example of a politician Can anyone else see him talking out both sides of his mouth here?
How many sides does a mouth have exactly? |
SmashTech
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
1
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 23:27:00 -
[249] - Quote
If Sreegs lives in Iceland he's probably in bed.
Probably.
Either that, or he's up late at night overseeing his botting empire. |
Brooson
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 23:31:00 -
[250] - Quote
01010100 01101000 01101001 01110011 00100000 01110100 01101000 01110010 01100101 01100001 01100100 00100000 01101001 01110011 00100000 01100001 00100000 01110100 01100101 01110010 01110010 01101001 01100010 01101100 01100101 00101110 00100000 01000001 01101100 01101101 01101111 01110011 01110100 00100000 01100001 01110011 00100000 01110100 01100101 01110010 01110010 01101001 01100010 01101100 01100101 00100000 01100001 01110011 00100000 01000111 01101111 01101111 01101110 01110011 01110111 01100001 01110010 01101101 00101110 |
|
The Apostle
The Black Priests
139
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 23:36:00 -
[251] - Quote
Way to go Goons. Forum bots as well now? Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo! |
Brooson
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
8
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 23:37:00 -
[252] - Quote
The Apostle wrote:Way to go Goons. Forum bots as well now?
We do as Mittani commands. |
Katsura Kotonoha
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
8
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 23:38:00 -
[253] - Quote
The Apostle wrote:Quote:You need to let this go. This topic would have gone alot farther and been alot more productive if you would have not pointed fingers. Even your title is set up to inflame, you could have said 0.0 Alliance "legalising" Botting!!
Nobody is argueing that what was done was questionable. But that is CCP's call on what to do about it and if it is bannable. You need to report it and move on. Yes of course. Except that this topic has over 200 replies and nearly 3000 views. Attempts have been made to repeatedly dumb it down and dissipate the topic at hand. And yet the question still remains.... Should the Goons (or ANY alliance) be allowed to 1) Threaten players for reporting? 2) Even address the issue of reporting bots internally when the EULA is CCP v Individual. 3) Knowingly harbour/support and secure ground for bots? And CCP has not clarified the position on ALLIANCE intervention and involvement in EULA issues. btw: I could give 100 analogies where refusing to acknowledge/address/act/report or indeed to participate in an illegal activity is deemed as legalising by proxy - it's perception based. My title stands. I have also explained my title in an earlier post. You have some contorted idea of what an EULA is for. It's for limiting CCP's liability if they ban you or refuse service to you. It's not a list of their internal laws. |
Pr1ncess Alia
Perkone Caldari State
24
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 23:39:00 -
[254] - Quote
Vile rat wrote:Consider this an official GSF response to this garbage thread.
We do not condone botting. We think it is destructive to the game. We tell people not to bot and strongly discourage it because it's stupid and easily caught, not to mention it cheapens the effort of players who play the game the way it was meant to be. We are also not CCP's policemen. It is not our job to police botting or EULA breaking activities in the game, this is CCP's job. CCP Sreegs is doing a wonderful job policing this and we support his actions. Asking a playerbase to police EULA infractions is dumb and it is not our place. There is a report bot mechanism, we encourage people to use it.
You know labeling something an 'official response' is just another way of saying "here is a line of b.s. gobble it up please", right?
Goons are as knee deep in RMT as the 'other' main 0.0 power block. You and I and most people in Eve with a brain know this.
|
Katsura Kotonoha
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
8
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 23:40:00 -
[255] - Quote
Pr1ncess Alia wrote:Vile rat wrote:Consider this an official GSF response to this garbage thread.
We do not condone botting. We think it is destructive to the game. We tell people not to bot and strongly discourage it because it's stupid and easily caught, not to mention it cheapens the effort of players who play the game the way it was meant to be. We are also not CCP's policemen. It is not our job to police botting or EULA breaking activities in the game, this is CCP's job. CCP Sreegs is doing a wonderful job policing this and we support his actions. Asking a playerbase to police EULA infractions is dumb and it is not our place. There is a report bot mechanism, we encourage people to use it. You know labeling something an 'official response' is just another way of saying "here is a line of b.s. gobble it up please", right? Goons are as knee deep in RMT as the 'other' main 0.0 power block. You and I and most people in Eve with a brain know this.
Here's an official GSF response to your post: dwi. |
Aryndel Vyst
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
88
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 23:40:00 -
[256] - Quote
Pr1ncess Alia wrote:Vile rat wrote:Consider this an official GSF response to this garbage thread.
We do not condone botting. We think it is destructive to the game. We tell people not to bot and strongly discourage it because it's stupid and easily caught, not to mention it cheapens the effort of players who play the game the way it was meant to be. We are also not CCP's policemen. It is not our job to police botting or EULA breaking activities in the game, this is CCP's job. CCP Sreegs is doing a wonderful job policing this and we support his actions. Asking a playerbase to police EULA infractions is dumb and it is not our place. There is a report bot mechanism, we encourage people to use it. You know labeling something an 'official response' is just another way of saying "here is a line of b.s. gobble it up please", right? Goons are as knee deep in RMT as the 'other' main 0.0 power block. You and I and most people in Eve with a brain know this.
I would challenge the concept that you have a brain hth. |
Brooson
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
8
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 23:42:00 -
[257] - Quote
01000010 01101100 01100001 01100011 01101011 00100000 01000001 01110000 01101111 01110011 01110100 01101100 01100101 00100000 01101001 01110011 00100000 01100001 00100000 01000111 01101111 01101111 01101110 00101101 01100001 01101100 01110100 00101110 00100000 01011001 01101111 01110101 00100000 01101000 01100001 01110110 01100101 00100000 01100001 01101100 01101100 00100000 01100010 01100101 01100101 01101110 00100000 01110100 01110010 01101111 01101100 01101100 01100101 01100100 00101110
|
Cypermethren
Celtic Cartage And Hauling
10
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 23:43:00 -
[258] - Quote
Pr1ncess Alia wrote:Vile rat wrote:Consider this an official GSF response to this garbage thread.
We do not condone botting. We think it is destructive to the game. We tell people not to bot and strongly discourage it because it's stupid and easily caught, not to mention it cheapens the effort of players who play the game the way it was meant to be. We are also not CCP's policemen. It is not our job to police botting or EULA breaking activities in the game, this is CCP's job. CCP Sreegs is doing a wonderful job policing this and we support his actions. Asking a playerbase to police EULA infractions is dumb and it is not our place. There is a report bot mechanism, we encourage people to use it. You know labeling something an 'official response' is just another way of saying "here is a line of b.s. gobble it up please", right? Goons are as knee deep in RMT as the 'other' main 0.0 power block. You and I and most people in Eve with a brain know this.
I've never seen the DRF advertise that they support alliance members using bots by requesting they not shoot or report said botters.
I've never known a CSM, someone which the eve community looks up too and watches their actions closely - to be allowed too - and not repremanded for - advertising in a public place that they support alliance members whom bot by requesting other members not shoot or report said botters
Thats the difference. |
Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 23:45:00 -
[259] - Quote
beep boop I am a bot |
Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
20
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 23:46:00 -
[260] - Quote
Mara Tessidar wrote:Where, oh where, did you read that Goons were "Above the law" outside of the OP? A CCP employee has told you that is not the case. Vile Rat has told you that is not the case. What, pray tell, leads you to the conclusion that Goons are a giant botting alliance that refuses to follow the EULA and gets away with it?
How 'bout the fact that neither of the entities you cite are even remotely objective, and/or credible to anyone with enough functioning brain cells to form a coherent thought?
0/10, keep practising.
|
|
Hans Jagerblitzen
Autocannons Anonymous
47
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 23:46:00 -
[261] - Quote
Cydori wrote: So allow me the conceit of speaking for all non Goons in EVE Online: We don't believe you. You and your CSM chairman, like all Goons, are practiced liars and proud of that fact. Short of outright insanity, what possible motivation would any of us have to believe a word you say now?
The end.
Nope, not the end. Your conceit is just that - conceit. I am a non goon, never been a goon, but you sir do NOT speak for all of us. And for the record, making blanket statements like "all goons" is like saying "black people". It stereotypes and shows a lack of respect for pilots as individuals when you treat an entire group as if they've all committed a crime. Anti-goon bigotry in-game isn't much different than anti-whoever bigotry out of game. Your bias couldn't be more clear, and it calls into question YOUR statements as well.
As to the believability of Goonswarm or its entities, you just have to take everything with a grain of salt. I've listened to Mittani's interviews, blogs, and statements from various Goon authorities - and while I'd never say, attempt to buy a supercarrier from them without using Chribba escrow, or believe them if they said I had to pay 100 million isk to join their alliance, there is a whole lot that goons, especially the CSM, say that is quite verifiable from plenty of other sources. I just think its shortsighted and disrespectful to say that everything that comes out of every goon mouth is a lie. That kind of rhetoric doesnt help anyone.
Many of the goons are good sports about realizing that this is a just a game, and while they may play the game ruthlessly on the server, many make an effort to separate in-character deceit and treachery (which is normal gameplay), and their statement made objectively about the game in general when discussing mechanics on the forums and such. A lot of us are smart enough and willing to take the time and listen to know the difference, i'm sorry that you need to categorize, simplify, and treat them all the same.
Quote: P.S. CCP's willful ignorance of what goes on in its own game is, sadly, of no great surprise. So I take CCP Screegs at his word when he says CCP has no intent of taking any meaningful action unless presented with irrefutable evidence of a coordinated RMT scheme at the corp/alliance level. Which is exactly what all of us expected of CCP prior to this dreary and depressing "debate" about a problem which is manifestly evident to everyone with a functioning brain stem, but which somehow continually seems to elude CCP.
I have a functioning brain stem, and I use it to observe and make judgements about the state of the game as well. I've been playing the game for two years, lived and operated in just about every slice of space from Jita to the the fringes of 0.0. Faction Warfare is my home and my primary activity, but I travel extensively, in pursuit of pew pew and some of the lootable resources that can only be found in 0.0. To this day, I have yet to observe ANY evidence of players using bots, and certainly not on any kind of scale. I still don't see what the big deal is, honestly there are enough players that rat, mine, and pew for 16 out of 24 hours (the others being devoted to sleep), so economically I could care less if someone uses a bot to automate income for the other 8. Its cheesy, and I hope they die in a fire and lose any implants they're stupid enough to bot in, but I fail to seem them or their hobbies as being a game-destroying factor on any kind of massive scale.
I say if you really want to police activity in-game, go do it!! Form a bot posse and spend all your time hunting bots. Take notes, post evidence to people like me that doubt this is a major scourge on New Eden, and report them to the authorities. But if you're too lazy to do that, than you can't than whine because another group in the game isn't doing that. The Goon leadership's statements seem pretty reasonable to me, just as CCP's security policy seems also reasonable. (Go ahead, say it, its not the first time I've been called a goon alt or CCP alt. )
We have this issue in militia too - whether or not to shoot purples that are causing trouble. Or that are engaging in questionable behavior. Going crazy and shooting purples or blues because of SUSPECTED, unverifiable, actions, cause far more diplomatic headaches than it does solve problems. It's a knee-jerk reaction solution to problem pilots that has implications that end up affecting a lot of innocent people in the process.
If you see botting, report it. If you're not around to see it, don't whine that others arent spending all their time policing it. Or better yet, provide some concrete evidence that "it" actually exists on a massive scale.
There are soooooo many issues that are in plain sight that need fixing right now, going on a witchhunt ghostbuster campaign against a phantom threat just seems like a major waste of time when there is a system in place to deal with these matters. Even more of a waste of time is a campaign against others who aren't out also campaigning to hunt ghosts.
|
Pr1ncess Alia
Perkone Caldari State
24
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 23:47:00 -
[262] - Quote
Aryndel Vyst wrote:Pr1ncess Alia wrote:Vile rat wrote:Consider this an official GSF response to this garbage thread.
We do not condone botting. We think it is destructive to the game. We tell people not to bot and strongly discourage it because it's stupid and easily caught, not to mention it cheapens the effort of players who play the game the way it was meant to be. We are also not CCP's policemen. It is not our job to police botting or EULA breaking activities in the game, this is CCP's job. CCP Sreegs is doing a wonderful job policing this and we support his actions. Asking a playerbase to police EULA infractions is dumb and it is not our place. There is a report bot mechanism, we encourage people to use it. You know labeling something an 'official response' is just another way of saying "here is a line of b.s. gobble it up please", right? Goons are as knee deep in RMT as the 'other' main 0.0 power block. You and I and most people in Eve with a brain know this. I would challenge the concept that you have a brain hth.
Dont get mad bro
We all understand it sucks when people point out your alliance for the lying sack of expletive that it is. |
Jita Alt666
284
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 23:50:00 -
[263] - Quote
The Apostle wrote:
Should the Goons (or ANY alliance) be allowed to
1) Threaten players for reporting? 2) Even address the issue of reporting bots internally when the EULA is CCP v Individual. 3) Knowingly harbour/support and secure ground for bots?
And CCP has not clarified the position on ALLIANCE intervention and involvement in EULA issues.
1. No. 2. They can address whatever they like internally. 3. Your evidence for this is weak - you are putting your filters on things and presenting them as facts. Nowhere in the original post by "Endie" does it say botters will be harboured or supported.
Seerg was pretty clear: Give them proof of organised eula flouting and they will take action.
|
Woo Glin
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
27
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 23:51:00 -
[264] - Quote
I, for one, am ashamed to learn that there are people not only taking part in but also members of our leadership conding this behavior. |
Brooson
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
9
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 23:52:00 -
[265] - Quote
Pr1ncess Alia wrote:
Dont get mad bro
We all understand it sucks when people point out your alliance for the lying sack of expletive that it is.
I wallow in poop. |
Katsura Kotonoha
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
10
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 23:52:00 -
[266] - Quote
Hey OP, you're asking for an unenforceable rule. It's like the "no running" rule in elementary school. |
Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
20
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 23:57:00 -
[267] - Quote
Brooson wrote:The Apostle wrote:Way to go Goons. Forum bots as well now? We are a joke, even by nullsec alliance "standards."
Fixed that for ya, mate
|
John Caesse
Navy of Xoc The Remnant Legion
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 23:58:00 -
[268] - Quote
Apparently an alliance not wanting its members to try and get each other banned is a big deal |
Stella SGP
The Kimotoro Initiative
8
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 00:00:00 -
[269] - Quote
Jita Alt666 wrote:Seerg was pretty clear: Give them proof of organised eula flouting and they will take action. This is exactly why this thread is a waste of time and nothing will be done. He is asking for something that can never be proven. Even if any alliance were to openly admit to anything in forum post, its still just a forum post, unless of course you want to start using forum post as indisputable evidence for anything..... which is kind a.....
WELCOME TO THE INTERWEBZ |
Brooson
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
11
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 00:00:00 -
[270] - Quote
Tarryn Nightstorm wrote:Brooson wrote:The Apostle wrote:Way to go Goons. Forum bots as well now? We are a joke, even by nullsec alliance "standards." Fixed that for ya, mate
You, sir, are both a scholar and a gentleman. I envy your astute observations and sharp wit. |
|
Digital Messiah
N7 Corporation
31
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 00:03:00 -
[271] - Quote
Botting goes on in all big alliances. The secret here, is that it isn't usually the alliance. Most of the time it is small to large corporations that bot up a storm in owned / rented space. This was a huge issue with one of my other characters while I was in test alliance. There was a big kick of a few corporations. Really though, if you want to help. Report the bots whether they are blue to you or not. If you get kicked out oh well. It is EVE what is the worst that can happen? Also if you are afraid of your old allies hunting you down for eternity. Just remember that GM's allow forms of griefing to an extent, but not an all out storm of fire and brimstone forever. Plus I think they might help you out if it was because you had reported bots. Or maybe not... "Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn" |
CATPAIN KIRK
State War Academy Caldari State
9
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 00:06:00 -
[272] - Quote
Woo Glin wrote:I, for one, am ashamed to learn that there are people not only taking part in but also members of our leadership conding this behavior.
It's 'condoming', not 'conding'. jesus christ l2spell |
Woo Glin
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
28
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 00:08:00 -
[273] - Quote
I hope you're kidding. |
Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
20
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 00:10:00 -
[274] - Quote
Woo Glin wrote:I, for one, am ashamed to learn that there are people not only taking part in but also members of our leadership condoning this behavior.
edit: spelling, and hounour
That's "behaviour" in English, actually.
(E-honour = SRS BZNS, after all.)
|
Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
10
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 00:11:00 -
[275] - Quote
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:Cydori wrote: So allow me the conceit of speaking for all non Goons in EVE Online: We don't believe you. You and your CSM chairman, like all Goons, are practiced liars and proud of that fact. Short of outright insanity, what possible motivation would any of us have to believe a word you say now?
The end.
Nope, not the end. Your conceit is just that - conceit. I am a non goon, never been a goon, but you sir do NOT speak for all of us. And for the record, making blanket statements like "all goons" is like saying "black people". It stereotypes and shows a lack of respect for pilots as individuals when you treat an entire group as if they've all committed a crime. Anti-goon bigotry in-game isn't much different than anti-whoever bigotry out of game. Your bias couldn't be more clear, and it calls into question YOUR statements as well. As to the believability of Goonswarm or its entities, you just have to take everything with a grain of salt. I've listened to Mittani's interviews, blogs, and statements from various Goon authorities - and while I'd never say, attempt to buy a supercarrier from them without using Chribba escrow, or believe them if they said I had to pay 100 million isk to join their alliance, there is a whole lot that goons, especially the CSM, say that is quite verifiable from plenty of other sources. I just think its shortsighted and disrespectful to say that everything that comes out of every goon mouth is a lie. That kind of rhetoric doesnt help anyone. Many of the goons are good sports about realizing that this is a just a game, and while they may play the game ruthlessly on the server, many make an effort to separate in-character deceit and treachery (which is normal gameplay), and their statement made objectively about the game in general when discussing mechanics on the forums and such. A lot of us are smart enough and willing to take the time and listen to know the difference, i'm sorry that you need to categorize, simplify, and treat them all the same. Quote: P.S. CCP's willful ignorance of what goes on in its own game is, sadly, of no great surprise. So I take CCP Screegs at his word when he says CCP has no intent of taking any meaningful action unless presented with irrefutable evidence of a coordinated RMT scheme at the corp/alliance level. Which is exactly what all of us expected of CCP prior to this dreary and depressing "debate" about a problem which is manifestly evident to everyone with a functioning brain stem, but which somehow continually seems to elude CCP. I have a functioning brain stem, and I use it to observe and make judgements about the state of the game as well. I've been playing the game for two years, lived and operated in just about every slice of space from Jita to the the fringes of 0.0. Faction Warfare is my home and my primary activity, but I travel extensively, in pursuit of pew pew and some of the lootable resources that can only be found in 0.0. To this day, I have yet to observe ANY evidence of players using bots, and certainly not on any kind of scale. I still don't see what the big deal is, honestly there are enough players that rat, mine, and pew for 16 out of 24 hours (the others being devoted to sleep), so economically I could care less if someone uses a bot to automate income for the other 8. Its cheesy, and I hope they die in a fire and lose any implants they're stupid enough to bot in, but I fail to seem them or their hobbies as being a game-destroying factor on any kind of massive scale. I say if you really want to police activity in-game, go do it!! Form a bot posse and spend all your time hunting bots. Take notes, post evidence to people like me that doubt this is a major scourge on New Eden, and report them to the authorities. But if you're too lazy to do that, than you can't than whine because another group in the game isn't doing that. The Goon leadership's statements seem pretty reasonable to me, just as CCP's security policy seems also reasonable. (Go ahead, say it, its not the first time I've been called a goon alt or CCP alt. ) We have this issue in militia too - whether or not to shoot purples that are causing trouble. Or that are engaging in questionable behavior. Going crazy and shooting purples or blues because of SUSPECTED, unverifiable, actions, cause far more diplomatic headaches than it does solve problems. It's a knee-jerk reaction solution to problem pilots that has implications that end up affecting a lot of innocent people in the process. If you see botting, report it. If you're not around to see it, don't whine that others arent spending all their time policing it. Or better yet, provide some concrete evidence that "it" actually exists on a massive scale. There are soooooo many issues that are in plain sight that need fixing right now, going on a witchhunt ghostbuster campaign against a phantom threat just seems like a major waste of time when there is a system in place to deal with these matters. Even more of a waste of time is a campaign against others who aren't out also campaigning to hunt ghosts. Careful now, everyone knows that if you don't wave your pitchfork on the goonbot witch hunt with the requisite enthusiasm it means that you must be one of the goonbot witches. |
John Caesse
Navy of Xoc The Remnant Legion
1
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 00:13:00 -
[276] - Quote
CATPAIN KIRK wrote:Woo Glin wrote:I, for one, am ashamed to learn that there are people not only taking part in but also members of our leadership conding this behavior. It's 'condoming', not 'conding'. jesus christ l2spell
not sure if serious... |
Brooson
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
11
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 00:13:00 -
[277] - Quote
Tarryn Nightstorm wrote:Woo Glin wrote:I, for one, am ashamed to learn that there are people not only taking part in but also members of our leadership condoning this behavior.
edit: spelling, and hounour That's "behaviour" in English, actually. (E-honour = SRS BZNS, after all.)
Hounour is not a word. But neither is Fubicaltimak. |
EVE Stig
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
6
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 00:13:00 -
[278] - Quote
Cypermethren wrote:
I've never known a CSM, someone which the eve community looks up too
Who the hell looks up to the CSM... youre playing this wrong "Some say that he is actually dead, but the Grim Reaper is too afraid to tell him." "Some say he is the 3rd member of Daft Punk and he did the vocals of "Technologic" song. All we know is,he's called EVE Stig"! |
Homo Erectus
Evolution The Initiative.
51
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 00:14:00 -
[279] - Quote
Woo Glin wrote:I hope you're kidding.
I think the right goon/b/fukung meme to use for that is the one with the joker and the "not sure if serious" on it
edit- John Caesse beat me to it so he gets a facebook thumbs up |
Woo Glin
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
28
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 00:14:00 -
[280] - Quote
how are you not in amok. yet |
|
Woo Glin
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
28
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 00:14:00 -
[281] - Quote
dat snipe |
The Apostle
The Black Priests
139
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 00:14:00 -
[282] - Quote
Quote:Hey OP, you're asking for an unenforceable rule. It's like the "no running" rule in elementary school. Actually I don't think it is unenforceable at all.
Here's the logic.
Disregarding what can currently occur under the EULA add this one simple line...
>>> Alliance/corp is fined for EVERY bot detected, escalating on subsequent offenses.
The justification for this is where an alliance/corp has ASSUMED RESPONSIBILITY or PROVIDED A HAVEN for bots then they must also be HELD ACCOUNTABLE for bots.
Either the alliance gets VERY proactive against bots or it's going to hurt.
..oo00oo..
btw: You Goon guys have been very active in this thread and I really do appreciate you dropping by. If you're doing anything, your're proving Mittani's sheep theory. Keep up the good work. Post stays high on the list too. Win/Win Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo! |
Woo Glin
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
29
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 00:15:00 -
[283] - Quote
awww yeah |
Brooson
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
12
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 00:17:00 -
[284] - Quote
I vote The Apostle for EVEonline forum Inquisitor.
|
Woo Glin
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
29
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 00:20:00 -
[285] - Quote
The Apostle wrote:Quote:Hey OP, you're asking for an unenforceable rule. It's like the "no running" rule in elementary school. btw: You Goon guys have been very active in this thread and I really do appreciate you dropping by. If you're doing anything, your're proving Mittani's sheep theory. Keep up the good work. Post stays high on the list too. Win/Win
oh **** my game just got owned |
EVE Stig
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
6
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 00:20:00 -
[286] - Quote
Stella SGP wrote:Jita Alt666 wrote:Seerg was pretty clear: Give them proof of organised eula flouting and they will take action. This is exactly why this thread is a waste of time and nothing will be done. He is asking for something that can never be proven. Even if any alliance were to openly admit to anything in forum post, its still just a forum post, unless of course you want to start using forum post as indisputable evidence for anything..... which is kind a..... WELCOME TO THE INTERWEBZ
Ah, like how Helicity was banned for telling a dev to DIAF cause that was apparently a real life threat?
Yeah... CCP set the standard first lol
"Some say that he is actually dead, but the Grim Reaper is too afraid to tell him." "Some say he is the 3rd member of Daft Punk and he did the vocals of "Technologic" song. All we know is,he's called EVE Stig"! |
CATPAIN KIRK
State War Academy Caldari State
10
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 00:24:00 -
[287] - Quote
Woo Glin wrote:how are you not in amok. yet
who - me? |
EI Digin
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
138
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 00:27:00 -
[288] - Quote
**** goons |
BiggerDangDude
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
6
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 00:27:00 -
[289] - Quote
Hey guys check out my googles. I bet Goons couldn't "legalise" looking this good. |
ThE AthEiiSt
Empirius Enigmus Navy C0NVICTED
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 00:27:00 -
[290] - Quote
i have been instructed to **** up this thread |
|
Mr Sniger
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 00:27:00 -
[291] - Quote
RESET goonswarm |
Ni Cho
Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation
3
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 00:27:00 -
[292] - Quote
I heard this is the place to find a rub and a tug. C/D |
EVE Stig
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
6
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 00:27:00 -
[293] - Quote
The Apostle wrote:Quote:Hey OP, you're asking for an unenforceable rule. It's like the "no running" rule in elementary school. Actually I don't think it is unenforceable at all. Here's the logic. Disregarding what can currently occur under the EULA add this one simple line... >>> Alliance/corp is fined for EVERY bot detected, escalating on subsequent offenses. The justification for this is where an alliance/corp has ASSUMED RESPONSIBILITY or PROVIDED A HAVEN for bots then they must also be HELD ACCOUNTABLE for bots. Either the alliance gets VERY proactive against bots or it's going to hurt. ..oo00oo.. btw: You Goon guys have been very active in this thread and I really do appreciate you dropping by. If you're doing anything, your're proving Mittani's sheep theory. Keep up the good work. Post stays high on the list too. Win/Win
so how is botting an un-enforcable thing? The CCP guys have been all over the forums saying that the unholy rage and all that other crap goings on were very successful right? So what youre saying theyre lying to us?
"Some say that he is actually dead, but the Grim Reaper is too afraid to tell him." "Some say he is the 3rd member of Daft Punk and he did the vocals of "Technologic" song. All we know is,he's called EVE Stig"! |
RevJesu Marek
Paragon. Elite Space Guild
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 00:28:00 -
[294] - Quote
If I wanted to bot, i'd play wow. fck dis sht |
Natalie Cerulean
Ixion Defence Systems Tactical Narcotics Team
10
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 00:28:00 -
[295] - Quote
The price of tea in China has gone up. |
Mr Sniger
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
1
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 00:28:00 -
[296] - Quote
Ni Cho wrote:I heard this is the place to find a rub and a tug. C/D
C |
Botleten
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
25
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 00:28:00 -
[297] - Quote
I like ice cream! |
Falin Whalen
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
14
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 00:29:00 -
[298] - Quote
We have not now, or ever, condoned the use of bots.
What the OP is doing is twisting a matter of forbidding the shooting of alliance members, based on circumstantial evidence of botting, into a blanket statement that we do condone botting, and will punish you for reporting a bot. This is patently false. We are to bring the matter up to the alliance leadership, where they will investigate, and if the character is found to be botting, kicking him out.
The process goes something like this. |
Nalha Saldana
Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation
8
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 00:29:00 -
[299] - Quote
Goons are such assholes and should all die in a fire. |
St Boltzmann
Broski Enterprises Elite Space Guild
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 00:30:00 -
[300] - Quote
EI Digin wrote:**** goons
|
|
Botleten
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
25
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 00:31:00 -
[301] - Quote
Confirming, goons are in fact assholes. |
Y U NO
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
7
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 00:32:00 -
[302] - Quote
Mr Sniger wrote:RESET goonswarm
Y U NO DO IT!? |
Dmitry Sychev
Free Space Pilots aka Banderlogs Goonswarm Federation
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 00:33:00 -
[303] - Quote
first time at eve gate, nice. |
Brooson
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
12
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 00:33:00 -
[304] - Quote
Y U NO wrote:Mr Sniger wrote:RESET goonswarm Y U NO DO IT!?
Yours is the face of truth. |
DidntWantThatShipAnway
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
2
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 00:34:00 -
[305] - Quote
This policy has nothing to do with botting and everything to do with alliance cohesion.
If you start having members screwing other members, scamming, reporting, awoxing. Your cant trust your own alliance. Authority and justice has to come from the top, which is why you deal with things internally. |
Homo Erectus
Evolution The Initiative.
52
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 00:35:00 -
[306] - Quote
it used to be back in the day way more goons would show up to a thread to offtrack it. there's only like 5 of you in this one. wtf happened did those kids get jobs or something? can one of you guys quote/troll me before i start going through the archives please |
Brooson
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
12
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 00:36:00 -
[307] - Quote
Homo Erectus wrote:it used to be back in the day way more goons would show up to a thread to offtrack it. there's only like 5 of you in this one. wtf happened did those kids get jobs or something? can one of you guys quote/troll me before i start going through the archives please
Rest of us are ****ing up Delve. |
Homo Erectus
Evolution The Initiative.
55
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 00:36:00 -
[308] - Quote
good boy |
Brooson
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
14
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 00:38:00 -
[309] - Quote
I get a penny everytime I post, I have a family to feed. |
Hans Jagerblitzen
Autocannons Anonymous
50
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 00:38:00 -
[310] - Quote
The Apostle wrote: Actually I don't think it is unenforceable at all.
Here's the logic.
Disregarding what can currently occur under the EULA add this one simple line...
>>> Alliance/corp is fined for EVERY bot detected, escalating on subsequent offenses.
The justification for this is where an alliance/corp has ASSUMED RESPONSIBILITY or PROVIDED A HAVEN for bots then they must also be HELD ACCOUNTABLE for bots.
Either the alliance gets VERY proactive against bots or it's going to hurt.
You know what will happen if you penalize Alliances when their bot-members are reported? A whole new wave of meta-gaming and an easily exploitable tactic to discredit and bankrupt the enemy. If Goons really do rule the game and **** on everyone and buy up favor with CCP and get away with murder blah blah blah, what is to stop them from simply starting a bunch of alt accounts, planting them in their enemy's alliance, than botting as much as possible so that the enemy gets the penalty when the **** hits the fan. If they don't get caught, they at least make isk in the mean time!
Penalizing botting will simply mean at best the botters end up botting under a different banner, at worse this policy creates an inventive to bot. This is not a fix.
|
|
Hans Jagerblitzen
Autocannons Anonymous
50
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 00:38:00 -
[311] - Quote
The Apostle wrote: Actually I don't think it is unenforceable at all.
Here's the logic.
Disregarding what can currently occur under the EULA add this one simple line...
>>> Alliance/corp is fined for EVERY bot detected, escalating on subsequent offenses.
The justification for this is where an alliance/corp has ASSUMED RESPONSIBILITY or PROVIDED A HAVEN for bots then they must also be HELD ACCOUNTABLE for bots.
Either the alliance gets VERY proactive against bots or it's going to hurt.
You know what will happen if you penalize Alliances when their bot-members are reported? A whole new wave of meta-gaming and an easily exploitable tactic to discredit and bankrupt the enemy. If Goons really do rule the game and **** on everyone and buy up favor with CCP and get away with murder blah blah blah, what is to stop them from simply starting a bunch of alt accounts, planting them in their enemy's alliance, than botting as much as possible so that the enemy gets the penalty when the **** hits the fan. If they don't get caught, they at least make isk in the mean time!
Penalizing botting will simply mean at best the botters end up botting under a different banner, at worse this policy creates an incentive to bot. This is not a fix.
Edit - sorry for the double post, forum gltiched. Mods can remove my identical posting above. |
Y U NO
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
8
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 00:39:00 -
[312] - Quote
Brooson wrote:Y U NO wrote:Mr Sniger wrote:RESET goonswarm Y U NO DO IT!? Yours is the face of truth.
Y U NO GIVE ME A HUG!? |
Woo Glin
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
30
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 00:39:00 -
[313] - Quote
a post so bad i made it twice |
Katsura Kotonoha
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
11
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 00:40:00 -
[314] - Quote
The Apostle wrote:Quote:Hey OP, you're asking for an unenforceable rule. It's like the "no running" rule in elementary school. Actually I don't think it is unenforceable at all. Here's the logic. Disregarding what can currently occur under the EULA add this one simple line... >>> Alliance/corp is fined for EVERY bot detected, escalating on subsequent offenses. The justification for this is where an alliance/corp has ASSUMED RESPONSIBILITY or PROVIDED A HAVEN for bots then they must also be HELD ACCOUNTABLE for bots. Either the alliance gets VERY proactive against bots or it's going to hurt. ..oo00oo.. btw: You Goon guys have been very active in this thread and I really do appreciate you dropping by. If you're doing anything, your're proving Mittani's sheep theory. Keep up the good work. Post stays high on the list too. Win/Win
Gonna put my bots in hostile alliances just to get reported before they catch me. |
Katsura Kotonoha
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
11
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 00:42:00 -
[315] - Quote
Though that's not as good as getting the whole alliance banned like you originally suggested. |
Hans Jagerblitzen
Autocannons Anonymous
50
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 00:43:00 -
[316] - Quote
Katsura Kotonoha wrote: Gonna put my bots in hostile alliances just to get reported before they catch me.
See, Apostle? I told you so :)
|
Brooson
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
14
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 00:44:00 -
[317] - Quote
Apostle, did you get scammed by goons? In all seriousness I cant understand your hatred for goonswarm.
We love you. |
The Apostle
The Black Priests
139
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 00:45:00 -
[318] - Quote
Quote:Great idea A+++. Gonna put my bots in hostile alliances just to get reported before they catch me. It's a BRILLIANT idea.....
All large alliances broken from within. Recruting now done properly making it less of a numbers game. Bots stopped.
What more could I ask for? Yes indeed. Bring it on.
Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo! |
Katsura Kotonoha
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
11
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 00:45:00 -
[319] - Quote
Brooson wrote:Apostle, did you get scammed by goons? In all seriousness I cant understand your hatred for goonswarm.
We love you. He must've gotten reported for botting and feels left out of the club. |
Hans Jagerblitzen
Autocannons Anonymous
50
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 00:45:00 -
[320] - Quote
Brooson wrote: We love you.
Ok, so maybe THAT is a lie :) |
|
Cheekything
Black Lance Executive Outcomes
46
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 00:45:00 -
[321] - Quote
I love how people can turn the simple message of don't use "I thought they were a bot" as an excuse to kill felllow alliance mates to
"ZOMFG GOONS THEY ADMIT TO BOTTING ZOMG MUST RAGE ON FORUM AND NOT READ ANY POSTS PAST PAGE 1"
Goons have a very solid alliance rules, grow up serious when adults start acting like 12 year old with reading problems?
*note* I'm not having a go at 12 year old or anyone with reading problems. Some people love to remove things from context so here is a joke.
--
A first-grade teacher, Ms Brooks, was having trouble with one of her students. The teacher asked, 'Harry, what's your problem?'
Harry answered, 'I'm too smart for the 1st grade. My sister is in the 3rd grade and I'm smarter than she is! I think I should be in the 3rd grade too!'
Ms. Brooks had had enough. She took Harry to the principal's office.
While Harry waited in the outer office, the teacher explained to the principal what the situation was. The principal told Ms. Brooks he would give the boy a test. If he failed to answer any of his questions he was to go back to the 1st grade and behave. She agreed.
Harry was brought in and the conditions were explained to him and he agreed to take the test.
Principal: 'What is 3 x 3?'
Harry: '9.'
Principal: 'What is 6 x 6?'
Harry: '36.'
And so it went with every question the principal thought a 3rd grader should know.
The principal looks at Ms. Brooks and tells her, 'I think Harry can go to the 3rd grade'
Ms. Brooks says to the principal, 'Let me ask him some questions..'
The principal and Harry both agreed.
Ms. Brooks asks, 'What does a cow have four of that I have only two of?'
Harry, after a moment: 'Legs.'
Ms. Brooks: 'What is in your pants that you have but I do not have?'
The principal wondered why would she ask such a question!
Harry replied: 'Pockets.'
Ms. Brooks: 'What does a dog do that a man steps into?'
Harry: 'Pants.'
The principal sat forward with his mouth hanging open.
Ms. Brooks: 'What goes in hard and pink then comes out soft and sticky?'
The principal's eyes opened really wide and before he could stop the answer, Harry replied, 'Bubble gum.'
Ms. Brooks: 'What does a man do standing up, a woman does sitting down and a dog does on three legs?'
Harry: 'Shake hands .'
The principal was trembling.
Ms. Brooks: 'What word starts with an 'F' and ends in 'K' that means a lot of heat and excitement?'
Harry: 'Firetruck.'
The principal breathed a sigh of relief and told the teacher, 'Put Harry in the fifth-grade, I got the last seven questions wrong. |
Brooson
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
14
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 00:47:00 -
[322] - Quote
Apostle for a 15 day character you seem to have a hard on for hating goons.
You got scammed didn't you. |
Dmitry Sychev
Free Space Pilots aka Banderlogs Goonswarm Federation
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 00:48:00 -
[323] - Quote
isnt botting its almost like in real life? smart people make others work for them xD
And yeah, Ponies the best! |
Misteek Eternal
Evolution The Initiative.
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 00:48:00 -
[324] - Quote
Something about all this seems very farmiliar. Something about a large group getting called out for cheating/exploiting/whatever. Some DEV favoritism thrown around in there too a little I see. Funny how the ones on the block now are the ones that cried foul way back then. I think I`m going to go look up that old Outbreak video, Karma i believe its name was. |
Woo Glin
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
30
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 00:49:00 -
[325] - Quote
Cheekything wrote:I love how people can turn the simple message of don't use "I thought they were a bot" as an excuse to kill felllow alliance mates to
"ZOMFG GOONS THEY ADMIT TO BOTTING ZOMG MUST RAGE ON FORUM AND NOT READ ANY POSTS PAST PAGE 1"
Goons have a very solid alliance rules, grow up serious when adults start acting like 12 year old with reading problems?
*note* I'm not having a go at 12 year old or anyone with reading problems. Some people love to remove things from context so here is a joke.
--
A first-grade teacher, Ms Brooks, was having trouble with one of her students. The teacher asked, 'Harry, what's your problem?'
Harry answered, 'I'm too smart for the 1st grade. My sister is in the 3rd grade and I'm smarter than she is! I think I should be in the 3rd grade too!'
Ms. Brooks had had enough. She took Harry to the principal's office.
While Harry waited in the outer office, the teacher explained to the principal what the situation was. The principal told Ms. Brooks he would give the boy a test. If he failed to answer any of his questions he was to go back to the 1st grade and behave. She agreed.
Harry was brought in and the conditions were explained to him and he agreed to take the test.
Principal: 'What is 3 x 3?'
Harry: '9.'
Principal: 'What is 6 x 6?'
Harry: '36.'
And so it went with every question the principal thought a 3rd grader should know.
The principal looks at Ms. Brooks and tells her, 'I think Harry can go to the 3rd grade'
Ms. Brooks says to the principal, 'Let me ask him some questions..'
The principal and Harry both agreed.
Ms. Brooks asks, 'What does a cow have four of that I have only two of?'
Harry, after a moment: 'Legs.'
Ms. Brooks: 'What is in your pants that you have but I do not have?'
The principal wondered why would she ask such a question!
Harry replied: 'Pockets.'
Ms. Brooks: 'What does a dog do that a man steps into?'
Harry: 'Pants.'
The principal sat forward with his mouth hanging open.
Ms. Brooks: 'What goes in hard and pink then comes out soft and sticky?'
The principal's eyes opened really wide and before he could stop the answer, Harry replied, 'Bubble gum.'
Ms. Brooks: 'What does a man do standing up, a woman does sitting down and a dog does on three legs?'
Harry: 'Shake hands .'
The principal was trembling.
Ms. Brooks: 'What word starts with an 'F' and ends in 'K' that means a lot of heat and excitement?'
Harry: 'Firetruck.'
The principal breathed a sigh of relief and told the teacher, 'Put Harry in the fifth-grade, I got the last seven questions wrong.
FWD:FWD:FWD:FUNNY MUST READ FWD: FWD
|
Brooson
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
14
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 00:51:00 -
[326] - Quote
Cheekything wrote:I love how people can turn the simple message of don't use "I thought they were a bot" as an excuse to kill felllow alliance mates to
"ZOMFG GOONS THEY ADMIT TO BOTTING ZOMG MUST RAGE ON FORUM AND NOT READ ANY POSTS PAST PAGE 1"
Goons have a very solid alliance rules, grow up serious when adults start acting like 12 year old with reading problems?
*note* I'm not having a go at 12 year old or anyone with reading problems. Some people love to remove things from context so here is a joke.
--
A first-grade teacher, Ms Brooks, was having trouble with one of her students. The teacher asked, 'Harry, what's your problem?'
Harry answered, 'I'm too smart for the 1st grade. My sister is in the 3rd grade and I'm smarter than she is! I think I should be in the 3rd grade too!'
Ms. Brooks had had enough. She took Harry to the principal's office.
While Harry waited in the outer office, the teacher explained to the principal what the situation was. The principal told Ms. Brooks he would give the boy a test. If he failed to answer any of his questions he was to go back to the 1st grade and behave. She agreed.
Harry was brought in and the conditions were explained to him and he agreed to take the test.
Principal: 'What is 3 x 3?'
Harry: '9.'
Principal: 'What is 6 x 6?'
Harry: '36.'
And so it went with every question the principal thought a 3rd grader should know.
The principal looks at Ms. Brooks and tells her, 'I think Harry can go to the 3rd grade'
Ms. Brooks says to the principal, 'Let me ask him some questions..'
The principal and Harry both agreed.
Ms. Brooks asks, 'What does a cow have four of that I have only two of?'
Harry, after a moment: 'Legs.'
Ms. Brooks: 'What is in your pants that you have but I do not have?'
The principal wondered why would she ask such a question!
Harry replied: 'Pockets.'
Ms. Brooks: 'What does a dog do that a man steps into?'
Harry: 'Pants.'
The principal sat forward with his mouth hanging open.
Ms. Brooks: 'What goes in hard and pink then comes out soft and sticky?'
The principal's eyes opened really wide and before he could stop the answer, Harry replied, 'Bubble gum.'
Ms. Brooks: 'What does a man do standing up, a woman does sitting down and a dog does on three legs?'
Harry: 'Shake hands .'
The principal was trembling.
Ms. Brooks: 'What word starts with an 'F' and ends in 'K' that means a lot of heat and excitement?'
Harry: 'Firetruck.'
The principal breathed a sigh of relief and told the teacher, 'Put Harry in the fifth-grade, I got the last seven questions wrong.
tl;dr |
Hans Jagerblitzen
Autocannons Anonymous
50
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 00:52:00 -
[327] - Quote
The Apostle wrote:Quote:Great idea A+++. Gonna put my bots in hostile alliances just to get reported before they catch me. It's a BRILLIANT idea..... All large alliances broken from within. Recruting now done properly making it less of a numbers game. Bots stopped. What more could I ask for? Yes indeed. Bring it on.
You're like the Eve equivalent of an arsenist - you just want to watch other people's creations burn while you observe and **** yourself in the corner.
This is Eve. You're complaining about things in nullsec being a numbers game? Of course they are. Biggest most powerful team wins. Don't like it? Make friends until you have a bigger team. Or quit and play a game with instancing and limited party raids.
The goons are New Eden's id. They embody they impulsive, limitless fun that there is to be had in the game, whether it comes at others' expense or not. They pride themselves on pushing sandbox and metagaming to its limit. But that's pretty much what separates Eve from other games, the fact that they can do it and get away with it . This should not be news to you, or offend you.
I'm not really into the goons either - that's not my type of fun. But I will certainly defend their right to have it that way. |
Homo Erectus
Evolution The Initiative.
55
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 00:52:00 -
[328] - Quote
Misteek Eternal wrote: Something about all this seems very farmiliar. Something about a large group getting called out for cheating/exploiting/whatever. Some DEV favoritism thrown around in there too a little I see. Funny how the ones on the block now are the ones that cried foul way back then. I think I`m going to go look up that old Outbreak video, Karma i believe its name was.
insert troll here |
Botleten
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
26
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 00:53:00 -
[329] - Quote
I'm not gay or nothing, but I think unicorns kick ass! |
Woo Glin
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
30
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 00:54:00 -
[330] - Quote
I, too, am not gay. |
|
Katsura Kotonoha
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
11
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 00:54:00 -
[331] - Quote
Misteek Eternal wrote: Something about all this seems very farmiliar. Something about a large group getting called out for cheating/exploiting/whatever. Some DEV favoritism thrown around in there too a little I see. Funny how the ones on the block now are the ones that cried foul way back then. I think I`m going to go look up that old Outbreak video, Karma i believe its name was. Just fyi it didn't work. That's why we have devswarm now. |
CATPAIN KIRK
State War Academy Caldari State
10
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 00:55:00 -
[332] - Quote
Woo Glin wrote:Cheekything wrote:I love how people can turn the simple message of don't use "I thought they were a bot" as an excuse to kill felllow alliance mates to
"ZOMFG GOONS THEY ADMIT TO BOTTING ZOMG MUST RAGE ON FORUM AND NOT READ ANY POSTS PAST PAGE 1"
Goons have a very solid alliance rules, grow up serious when adults start acting like 12 year old with reading problems?
*note* I'm not having a go at 12 year old or anyone with reading problems. Some people love to remove things from context so here is a joke.
--
A first-grade teacher, Ms Brooks, was having trouble with one of her students. The teacher asked, 'Harry, what's your problem?'
Harry answered, 'I'm too smart for the 1st grade. My sister is in the 3rd grade and I'm smarter than she is! I think I should be in the 3rd grade too!'
Ms. Brooks had had enough. She took Harry to the principal's office.
While Harry waited in the outer office, the teacher explained to the principal what the situation was. The principal told Ms. Brooks he would give the boy a test. If he failed to answer any of his questions he was to go back to the 1st grade and behave. She agreed.
Harry was brought in and the conditions were explained to him and he agreed to take the test.
Principal: 'What is 3 x 3?'
Harry: '9.'
Principal: 'What is 6 x 6?'
Harry: '36.'
And so it went with every question the principal thought a 3rd grader should know.
The principal looks at Ms. Brooks and tells her, 'I think Harry can go to the 3rd grade'
Ms. Brooks says to the principal, 'Let me ask him some questions..'
The principal and Harry both agreed.
Ms. Brooks asks, 'What does a cow have four of that I have only two of?'
Harry, after a moment: 'Legs.'
Ms. Brooks: 'What is in your pants that you have but I do not have?'
The principal wondered why would she ask such a question!
Harry replied: 'Pockets.'
Ms. Brooks: 'What does a dog do that a man steps into?'
Harry: 'Pants.'
The principal sat forward with his mouth hanging open.
Ms. Brooks: 'What goes in hard and pink then comes out soft and sticky?'
The principal's eyes opened really wide and before he could stop the answer, Harry replied, 'Bubble gum.'
Ms. Brooks: 'What does a man do standing up, a woman does sitting down and a dog does on three legs?'
Harry: 'Shake hands .'
The principal was trembling.
Ms. Brooks: 'What word starts with an 'F' and ends in 'K' that means a lot of heat and excitement?'
Harry: 'Firetruck.'
The principal breathed a sigh of relief and told the teacher, 'Put Harry in the fifth-grade, I got the last seven questions wrong. FWD:FWD:FWD:FUNNY MUST READ FWD: FWD
I dont get it |
Cypermethren
Celtic Cartage And Hauling
10
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 00:56:00 -
[333] - Quote
Misteek Eternal wrote: Something about all this seems very farmiliar. Something about a large group getting called out for cheating/exploiting/whatever. Some DEV favoritism thrown around in there too a little I see. Funny how the ones on the block now are the ones that cried foul way back then. I think I`m going to go look up that old Outbreak video, Karma i believe its name was.
And with the Dev saying bring us proof and we'll do something about it opend another door.
Oh how **** will hit the fan and blow up in CCP's face when a disgrunted goon makes a post on these forums providing 10-15 screenshots from forums, jabber, maybe an audio file taken from voice comms, of said RMT trading going on.
Will CCP throw the "just because they said it on their own private forums doesnt mean they do...." card and still refuze to investigate from their end of the game/logfiles?
Will CCP remove the thread immediately, ban the user that bought forwarth this information in attempts to save face with the eve community as it would be the SECOND time that they've been caught out giving an unfair advantage to select players?
Surely CCP, you realise that by stating you wont do crap about the issue untill we bring you proof that you've just setup a challenge for us players to infiltrate and supply evidance, which we will do with a passion to spite you for lying to us - is only giving more fuel to the fire that will force you to pull the Jove card or watch as your'e active user count drops down to 10 or 15 thousand as players leave by the droves, sick of you're lies, corruption, broken promices, and oh, more lies.
|
Mr Sniger
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
1
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 00:57:00 -
[334] - Quote
CATPAIN KIRK wrote:Woo Glin wrote:Cheekything wrote:I love how people can turn the simple message of don't use "I thought they were a bot" as an excuse to kill felllow alliance mates to
"ZOMFG GOONS THEY ADMIT TO BOTTING ZOMG MUST RAGE ON FORUM AND NOT READ ANY POSTS PAST PAGE 1"
Goons have a very solid alliance rules, grow up serious when adults start acting like 12 year old with reading problems?
*note* I'm not having a go at 12 year old or anyone with reading problems. Some people love to remove things from context so here is a joke.
--
A first-grade teacher, Ms Brooks, was having trouble with one of her students. The teacher asked, 'Harry, what's your problem?'
Harry answered, 'I'm too smart for the 1st grade. My sister is in the 3rd grade and I'm smarter than she is! I think I should be in the 3rd grade too!'
Ms. Brooks had had enough. She took Harry to the principal's office.
While Harry waited in the outer office, the teacher explained to the principal what the situation was. The principal told Ms. Brooks he would give the boy a test. If he failed to answer any of his questions he was to go back to the 1st grade and behave. She agreed.
Harry was brought in and the conditions were explained to him and he agreed to take the test.
Principal: 'What is 3 x 3?'
Harry: '9.'
Principal: 'What is 6 x 6?'
Harry: '36.'
And so it went with every question the principal thought a 3rd grader should know.
The principal looks at Ms. Brooks and tells her, 'I think Harry can go to the 3rd grade'
Ms. Brooks says to the principal, 'Let me ask him some questions..'
The principal and Harry both agreed.
Ms. Brooks asks, 'What does a cow have four of that I have only two of?'
Harry, after a moment: 'Legs.'
Ms. Brooks: 'What is in your pants that you have but I do not have?'
The principal wondered why would she ask such a question!
Harry replied: 'Pockets.'
Ms. Brooks: 'What does a dog do that a man steps into?'
Harry: 'Pants.'
The principal sat forward with his mouth hanging open.
Ms. Brooks: 'What goes in hard and pink then comes out soft and sticky?'
The principal's eyes opened really wide and before he could stop the answer, Harry replied, 'Bubble gum.'
Ms. Brooks: 'What does a man do standing up, a woman does sitting down and a dog does on three legs?'
Harry: 'Shake hands .'
The principal was trembling.
Ms. Brooks: 'What word starts with an 'F' and ends in 'K' that means a lot of heat and excitement?'
Harry: 'Firetruck.'
The principal breathed a sigh of relief and told the teacher, 'Put Harry in the fifth-grade, I got the last seven questions wrong. FWD:FWD:FWD:FUNNY MUST READ FWD: FWD I dont get it neither do i |
The Apostle
The Black Priests
139
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 00:57:00 -
[335] - Quote
Quote:Apostle, did you get scammed by goons? In all seriousness I cant understand your hatred for goonswarm.
We love you. You guys wouldn't be clever enough to scam me. And for the record, I don't hate the Goons at all. I've flown with you guys on ops and spent quite awhile in DekCo land. (hey I'm posting on an alt, deal with it.)
But I despise players/corps/alliance who deliberately subvert the spirit of the game with cheap politics, cheap antics and cheap shots that harm the game and the people within it.
All for what? More space? Cheap thrills? Lolz and Gigglez?
And hey. I'm flattered that "The Mittani" has sent his henchman to punch my post silly. Just let him know that he's proving HIS and MY social experiment... Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo! |
Headerman
Quovis Shadow of xXDEATHXx
132
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 00:57:00 -
[336] - Quote
Yeah so goons + bots hey. Got to wonder why killing a bot is bad when you can just report it and the whole account gets binned... [img]http://i53.tinypic.com/bebnf8.jpg[/img] |
Katsura Kotonoha
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
12
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 00:57:00 -
[337] - Quote
Cypermethren wrote:Misteek Eternal wrote: Something about all this seems very farmiliar. Something about a large group getting called out for cheating/exploiting/whatever. Some DEV favoritism thrown around in there too a little I see. Funny how the ones on the block now are the ones that cried foul way back then. I think I`m going to go look up that old Outbreak video, Karma i believe its name was. And with the Dev saying bring us proof and we'll do something about it opend another door. Oh how **** will hit the fan and blow up in CCP's face when a disgrunted goon makes a post on these forums providing 10-15 screenshots from forums, jabber, maybe an audio file taken from voice comms, of said RMT trading going on. Will CCP throw the "just because they said it on their own private forums doesnt mean they do...." card and still refuze to investigate from their end of the game/logfiles? Will CCP remove the thread immediately, ban the user that bought forwarth this information in attempts to save face with the eve community as it would be the SECOND time that they've been caught out giving an unfair advantage to select players? Surely CCP, you realise that by stating you wont do crap about the issue untill we bring you proof that you've just setup a challenge for us players to infiltrate and supply evidance, which we will do with a passion to spite you for lying to us - is only giving more fuel to the fire that will force you to pull the Jove card or watch as your'e active user count drops down to 10 or 15 thousand as players leave by the droves, sick of you're lies, corruption, broken promices, and oh, more lies. BUY MY ISK |
Brooson
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
14
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 00:58:00 -
[338] - Quote
Mr Sniger wrote:CATPAIN KIRK wrote:Woo Glin wrote:Cheekything wrote:I love how people can turn the simple message of don't use "I thought they were a bot" as an excuse to kill felllow alliance mates to
"ZOMFG GOONS THEY ADMIT TO BOTTING ZOMG MUST RAGE ON FORUM AND NOT READ ANY POSTS PAST PAGE 1"
Goons have a very solid alliance rules, grow up serious when adults start acting like 12 year old with reading problems?
*note* I'm not having a go at 12 year old or anyone with reading problems. Some people love to remove things from context so here is a joke.
--
A first-grade teacher, Ms Brooks, was having trouble with one of her students. The teacher asked, 'Harry, what's your problem?'
Harry answered, 'I'm too smart for the 1st grade. My sister is in the 3rd grade and I'm smarter than she is! I think I should be in the 3rd grade too!'
Ms. Brooks had had enough. She took Harry to the principal's office.
While Harry waited in the outer office, the teacher explained to the principal what the situation was. The principal told Ms. Brooks he would give the boy a test. If he failed to answer any of his questions he was to go back to the 1st grade and behave. She agreed.
Harry was brought in and the conditions were explained to him and he agreed to take the test.
Principal: 'What is 3 x 3?'
Harry: '9.'
Principal: 'What is 6 x 6?'
Harry: '36.'
And so it went with every question the principal thought a 3rd grader should know.
The principal looks at Ms. Brooks and tells her, 'I think Harry can go to the 3rd grade'
Ms. Brooks says to the principal, 'Let me ask him some questions..'
The principal and Harry both agreed.
Ms. Brooks asks, 'What does a cow have four of that I have only two of?'
Harry, after a moment: 'Legs.'
Ms. Brooks: 'What is in your pants that you have but I do not have?'
The principal wondered why would she ask such a question!
Harry replied: 'Pockets.'
Ms. Brooks: 'What does a dog do that a man steps into?'
Harry: 'Pants.'
The principal sat forward with his mouth hanging open.
Ms. Brooks: 'What goes in hard and pink then comes out soft and sticky?'
The principal's eyes opened really wide and before he could stop the answer, Harry replied, 'Bubble gum.'
Ms. Brooks: 'What does a man do standing up, a woman does sitting down and a dog does on three legs?'
Harry: 'Shake hands .'
The principal was trembling.
Ms. Brooks: 'What word starts with an 'F' and ends in 'K' that means a lot of heat and excitement?'
Harry: 'Firetruck.'
The principal breathed a sigh of relief and told the teacher, 'Put Harry in the fifth-grade, I got the last seven questions wrong. FWD:FWD:FWD:FUNNY MUST READ FWD: FWD I dont get it neither do i
same
There are only 6 questions in the ending part of this joke and i have no idea how 'What does a cow have four of that I have only two of?' can be construed as dirty/ how the principle could get it wrong.
|
Katsura Kotonoha
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
12
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 01:00:00 -
[339] - Quote
The Apostle wrote:And hey. I'm flattered that "The Mittani" has sent his henchman to punch my post silly. Just let him know that he's proving HIS and MY social experiment...
|
Anela Cistine
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 01:00:00 -
[340] - Quote
DidntWantThatShipAnway wrote:This policy has nothing to do with botting and everything to do with alliance cohesion.
If you start having members screwing other members, scamming, reporting, awoxing. Your cant trust your own alliance. Authority and justice has to come from the top, which is why you deal with things internally.
Exactly. The rules are designed to minimize internal drama. If a goon quietly reports another goon, no one will ever know or care. Usually when a goon gets banned for botting we all point and laugh and call the guy an idiot.
What we don't want is witch hunts, goon on goon trolling, and drama queens going around threatening to get people banned, or bragging about getting people banned. That creates hard feelings and tears apart alliance cohesion. So reporting falls under the "no goonfucking" rules, so that when people do it they will do it quietly. No drama. |
|
Mr Sniger
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
1
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 01:00:00 -
[341] - Quote
Brooson wrote:Mr Sniger wrote:CATPAIN KIRK wrote:Woo Glin wrote:Cheekything wrote:I love how people can turn the simple message of don't use "I thought they were a bot" as an excuse to kill felllow alliance mates to
"ZOMFG GOONS THEY ADMIT TO BOTTING ZOMG MUST RAGE ON FORUM AND NOT READ ANY POSTS PAST PAGE 1"
Goons have a very solid alliance rules, grow up serious when adults start acting like 12 year old with reading problems?
*note* I'm not having a go at 12 year old or anyone with reading problems. Some people love to remove things from context so here is a joke.
--
A first-grade teacher, Ms Brooks, was having trouble with one of her students. The teacher asked, 'Harry, what's your problem?'
Harry answered, 'I'm too smart for the 1st grade. My sister is in the 3rd grade and I'm smarter than she is! I think I should be in the 3rd grade too!'
Ms. Brooks had had enough. She took Harry to the principal's office.
While Harry waited in the outer office, the teacher explained to the principal what the situation was. The principal told Ms. Brooks he would give the boy a test. If he failed to answer any of his questions he was to go back to the 1st grade and behave. She agreed.
Harry was brought in and the conditions were explained to him and he agreed to take the test.
Principal: 'What is 3 x 3?'
Harry: '9.'
Principal: 'What is 6 x 6?'
Harry: '36.'
And so it went with every question the principal thought a 3rd grader should know.
The principal looks at Ms. Brooks and tells her, 'I think Harry can go to the 3rd grade'
Ms. Brooks says to the principal, 'Let me ask him some questions..'
The principal and Harry both agreed.
Ms. Brooks asks, 'What does a cow have four of that I have only two of?'
Harry, after a moment: 'Legs.'
Ms. Brooks: 'What is in your pants that you have but I do not have?'
The principal wondered why would she ask such a question!
Harry replied: 'Pockets.'
Ms. Brooks: 'What does a dog do that a man steps into?'
Harry: 'Pants.'
The principal sat forward with his mouth hanging open.
Ms. Brooks: 'What goes in hard and pink then comes out soft and sticky?'
The principal's eyes opened really wide and before he could stop the answer, Harry replied, 'Bubble gum.'
Ms. Brooks: 'What does a man do standing up, a woman does sitting down and a dog does on three legs?'
Harry: 'Shake hands .'
The principal was trembling.
Ms. Brooks: 'What word starts with an 'F' and ends in 'K' that means a lot of heat and excitement?'
Harry: 'Firetruck.'
The principal breathed a sigh of relief and told the teacher, 'Put Harry in the fifth-grade, I got the last seven questions wrong. FWD:FWD:FWD:FUNNY MUST READ FWD: FWD I dont get it neither do i same There are only 6 questions in the ending part of this joke and i have no idea how 'What does a cow have four of that I have only two of?' can be construed as dirty/ how the principle could get it wrong.
Legs are the only thing that come to mind. That isn't dirty at all. |
CATPAIN KIRK
State War Academy Caldari State
10
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 01:01:00 -
[342] - Quote
Brooson wrote:Mr Sniger wrote:CATPAIN KIRK wrote:Woo Glin wrote:Cheekything wrote:I love how people can turn the simple message of don't use "I thought they were a bot" as an excuse to kill felllow alliance mates to
"ZOMFG GOONS THEY ADMIT TO BOTTING ZOMG MUST RAGE ON FORUM AND NOT READ ANY POSTS PAST PAGE 1"
Goons have a very solid alliance rules, grow up serious when adults start acting like 12 year old with reading problems?
*note* I'm not having a go at 12 year old or anyone with reading problems. Some people love to remove things from context so here is a joke.
--
A first-grade teacher, Ms Brooks, was having trouble with one of her students. The teacher asked, 'Harry, what's your problem?'
Harry answered, 'I'm too smart for the 1st grade. My sister is in the 3rd grade and I'm smarter than she is! I think I should be in the 3rd grade too!'
Ms. Brooks had had enough. She took Harry to the principal's office.
While Harry waited in the outer office, the teacher explained to the principal what the situation was. The principal told Ms. Brooks he would give the boy a test. If he failed to answer any of his questions he was to go back to the 1st grade and behave. She agreed.
Harry was brought in and the conditions were explained to him and he agreed to take the test.
Principal: 'What is 3 x 3?'
Harry: '9.'
Principal: 'What is 6 x 6?'
Harry: '36.'
And so it went with every question the principal thought a 3rd grader should know.
The principal looks at Ms. Brooks and tells her, 'I think Harry can go to the 3rd grade'
Ms. Brooks says to the principal, 'Let me ask him some questions..'
The principal and Harry both agreed.
Ms. Brooks asks, 'What does a cow have four of that I have only two of?'
Harry, after a moment: 'Legs.'
Ms. Brooks: 'What is in your pants that you have but I do not have?'
The principal wondered why would she ask such a question!
Harry replied: 'Pockets.'
Ms. Brooks: 'What does a dog do that a man steps into?'
Harry: 'Pants.'
The principal sat forward with his mouth hanging open.
Ms. Brooks: 'What goes in hard and pink then comes out soft and sticky?'
The principal's eyes opened really wide and before he could stop the answer, Harry replied, 'Bubble gum.'
Ms. Brooks: 'What does a man do standing up, a woman does sitting down and a dog does on three legs?'
Harry: 'Shake hands .'
The principal was trembling.
Ms. Brooks: 'What word starts with an 'F' and ends in 'K' that means a lot of heat and excitement?'
Harry: 'Firetruck.'
The principal breathed a sigh of relief and told the teacher, 'Put Harry in the fifth-grade, I got the last seven questions wrong. FWD:FWD:FWD:FUNNY MUST READ FWD: FWD I dont get it neither do i same There are only 6 questions in the ending part of this joke and i have no idea how 'What does a cow have four of that I have only two of?' can be construed as dirty/ how the principle could get it wrong.
maybe he also had 6x6 wrong - what an idot principle! |
Brooson
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
14
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 01:03:00 -
[343] - Quote
CATPAIN KIRK wrote:Brooson wrote:Mr Sniger wrote:CATPAIN KIRK wrote:Woo Glin wrote:
FWD:FWD:FWD:FUNNY MUST READ FWD: FWD
I dont get it neither do i same There are only 6 questions in the ending part of this joke and i have no idea how 'What does a cow have four of that I have only two of?' can be construed as dirty/ how the principle could get it wrong. maybe he also had 6x6 wrong - what an idot principle!
NOW THAT IS FUNNY! HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA |
Hans Jagerblitzen
Autocannons Anonymous
51
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 01:04:00 -
[344] - Quote
Cypermethren wrote: Will CCP remove the thread immediately, ban the user that bought forwarth this information in attempts to save face with the eve community as it would be the SECOND time that they've been caught out giving an unfair advantage to select players?
Surely CCP, you realise that by stating you wont do crap about the issue untill we bring you proof that you've just setup a challenge for us players to infiltrate and supply evidance, which we will do with a passion to spite you for lying to us - is only giving more fuel to the fire that will force you to pull the Jove card or watch as your'e active user count drops down to 10 or 15 thousand as players leave by the droves, sick of you're lies, corruption, broken promices, and oh, more lies.
How about instead of hypotheorizing your strategeric prognostications you actually just go and do this and see what they do. Angry rhetorical questions serve no purpose on the forums, and they don't make you Mr. tough guy. Now, I will be the first person that is highly impressed when you pull this off. It does indeed sound like a fun challege - now go do it. Cause a lot of us will care once you succeed, but not because you're just sitting, speculating, and accusing.
|
CATPAIN KIRK
State War Academy Caldari State
10
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 01:07:00 -
[345] - Quote
Brooson wrote:CATPAIN KIRK wrote:Quote:
There are only 6 questions in the ending part of this joke and i have no idea how 'What does a cow have four of that I have only two of?' can be construed as dirty/ how the principle could get it wrong.
maybe he also had 6x6 wrong - what an idot principle! NOW THAT IS FUNNY! HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA
it even gets funnier than that: I tought about it and actually cows have four long niples, so the teacher has long niples! Hahahahahahahahahaha! |
Stella SGP
The Kimotoro Initiative
8
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 01:11:00 -
[346] - Quote
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:You're like the Eve equivalent of an arsenist - you just want to watch other people's creations burn while you observe and **** yourself in the corner.
This is Eve. You're complaining about things in nullsec being a numbers game? Of course they are. Biggest most powerful team wins. Don't like it? Make friends until you have a bigger team. Or quit and play a game with instancing and limited party raids.
The goons are New Eden's id. They embody they impulsive, limitless fun that there is to be had in the game, whether it comes at others' expense or not. They pride themselves on pushing sandbox and metagaming to its limit. But that's pretty much what separates Eve from other games, the fact that they can do it and get away with it . This should not be news to you, or offend you.
I'm not really into the goons either - that's not my type of fun. But I will certainly defend their right to have it that way. Kids, here is a proper example of how to give a interwebz bl0wj0b. |
Brooson
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
16
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 01:12:00 -
[347] - Quote
Stella SGP wrote:Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:You're like the Eve equivalent of an arsenist - you just want to watch other people's creations burn while you observe and **** yourself in the corner.
This is Eve. You're complaining about things in nullsec being a numbers game? Of course they are. Biggest most powerful team wins. Don't like it? Make friends until you have a bigger team. Or quit and play a game with instancing and limited party raids.
The goons are New Eden's id. They embody they impulsive, limitless fun that there is to be had in the game, whether it comes at others' expense or not. They pride themselves on pushing sandbox and metagaming to its limit. But that's pretty much what separates Eve from other games, the fact that they can do it and get away with it . This should not be news to you, or offend you.
I'm not really into the goons either - that's not my type of fun. But I will certainly defend their right to have it that way. Kids, here is a proper example of how to give a interwebz bl0wj0b.
I have no idea what a bj feels like.... |
Woo Glin
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
30
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 01:12:00 -
[348] - Quote
Brooson wrote:
There are only 6 questions in the ending part of this joke and i have no idea how 'What does a cow have four of that I have only two of?' can be construed as dirty/ how the principle could get it wrong.
nipples |
Hans Jagerblitzen
Autocannons Anonymous
51
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 01:14:00 -
[349] - Quote
Brooson wrote:Stella SGP wrote:Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:You're like the Eve equivalent of an arsenist - you just want to watch other people's creations burn while you observe and **** yourself in the corner.
This is Eve. You're complaining about things in nullsec being a numbers game? Of course they are. Biggest most powerful team wins. Don't like it? Make friends until you have a bigger team. Or quit and play a game with instancing and limited party raids.
The goons are New Eden's id. They embody they impulsive, limitless fun that there is to be had in the game, whether it comes at others' expense or not. They pride themselves on pushing sandbox and metagaming to its limit. But that's pretty much what separates Eve from other games, the fact that they can do it and get away with it . This should not be news to you, or offend you.
I'm not really into the goons either - that's not my type of fun. But I will certainly defend their right to have it that way. Kids, here is a proper example of how to give a interwebz bl0wj0b. I have no idea what a bj feels like....
Well, unfortunately they only allow one of us in CQ at a time. Maybe after winter patch I can help you out... |
CATPAIN KIRK
State War Academy Caldari State
10
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 01:19:00 -
[350] - Quote
Brooson wrote:Stella SGP wrote:Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:You're like the Eve equivalent of an arsenist - you just want to watch other people's creations burn while you observe and **** yourself in the corner.
This is Eve. You're complaining about things in nullsec being a numbers game? Of course they are. Biggest most powerful team wins. Don't like it? Make friends until you have a bigger team. Or quit and play a game with instancing and limited party raids.
The goons are New Eden's id. They embody they impulsive, limitless fun that there is to be had in the game, whether it comes at others' expense or not. They pride themselves on pushing sandbox and metagaming to its limit. But that's pretty much what separates Eve from other games, the fact that they can do it and get away with it . This should not be news to you, or offend you.
I'm not really into the goons either - that's not my type of fun. But I will certainly defend their right to have it that way. Kids, here is a proper example of how to give a interwebz bl0wj0b. I have no idea what a bj feels like....
From a calf, it feels like a pumkpin - just moving. |
|
Stella SGP
The Kimotoro Initiative
8
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 01:24:00 -
[351] - Quote
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:Brooson wrote:Stella SGP wrote:Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:You're like the Eve equivalent of an arsenist - you just want to watch other people's creations burn while you observe and **** yourself in the corner.
This is Eve. You're complaining about things in nullsec being a numbers game? Of course they are. Biggest most powerful team wins. Don't like it? Make friends until you have a bigger team. Or quit and play a game with instancing and limited party raids.
The goons are New Eden's id. They embody they impulsive, limitless fun that there is to be had in the game, whether it comes at others' expense or not. They pride themselves on pushing sandbox and metagaming to its limit. But that's pretty much what separates Eve from other games, the fact that they can do it and get away with it . This should not be news to you, or offend you.
I'm not really into the goons either - that's not my type of fun. But I will certainly defend their right to have it that way. Kids, here is a proper example of how to give a interwebz bl0wj0b. I have no idea what a bj feels like.... Well, unfortunately they only allow one of us in CQ at a time. Maybe after winter patch I can help you out... Can we have dinner and maybe go for a movie first tho? Just to build up the mood, cause I'm shy.
Oh oh do I have to be a Goon? If so who do I send my security deposit to? |
Headerman
Quovis Shadow of xXDEATHXx
132
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 01:26:00 -
[352] - Quote
Anela Cistine wrote:DidntWantThatShipAnway wrote:This policy has nothing to do with botting and everything to do with alliance cohesion.
If you start having members screwing other members, scamming, reporting, awoxing. Your cant trust your own alliance. Authority and justice has to come from the top, which is why you deal with things internally. Exactly. The rules are designed to minimize internal drama. If a goon quietly reports another goon, no one will ever know or care. Usually when a goon gets banned for botting we all point and laugh and call the guy an idiot. What we don't want is witch hunts, goon on goon trolling, and drama queens going around threatening to get people banned, or bragging about getting people banned. That creates hard feelings and tears apart alliance cohesion. So reporting falls under the "no goonfucking" rules, so that when people do it they will do it quietly. No drama.
So in other words... The rule is in force to stop people shooting bots, and to let the bot owner continue safely?
If someone there sees a bot, the whinge to the bosses who tell them to **** off and may tell the bot owner to move it to another system for a week or 2 maybe... nice.
No drama at all. [img]http://i53.tinypic.com/bebnf8.jpg[/img] |
The Apostle
The Black Priests
139
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 01:31:00 -
[353] - Quote
Quote:What we don't want is witch hunts, goon on goon trolling, and drama queens going around threatening to get people banned, or bragging about getting people banned. That creates hard feelings and tears apart alliance cohesion. So reporting falls under the "no goonfucking" rules, so that when people do it they will do it quietly. No drama. BS. The OP from Goons did not state "do it quietly".
It said "don't or else"!
This is a clear and intentional intervention in EULA breaches as an alliance policy. I'm asking that it gets nailed by CCP. Always have.
However, if CCP thinks this is acceptable then CCP need to ensure that if an alliance assumes responsibility for bots it must also be held accountable for bots.
As an aside, several Goons have waxed lyrically about how you deal with bots at the same time saying that "it's not our problem".
So why the need at all to implement threats to the membership?
Why so much interest in the topic?
Have I really pissed someone off that much? (maybe I'd make a great Goon??)
I take no solice, I think it's just sad that Goons have to do what they're doing to sabotage this topic. Above all, I wonder why? Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo! |
Hans Jagerblitzen
Autocannons Anonymous
51
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 01:31:00 -
[354] - Quote
Stella SGP wrote:Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
Well, unfortunately they only allow one of us in CQ at a time. Maybe after winter patch I can help you out...
Can we have dinner and maybe go for a movie first tho? Just to build up the mood, cause I'm shy. Oh oh do I have to be a Goon? If so who do I send my security deposit to?
Certainly, assuming CCP delivers Establishments on time as promised (though I dont think anyone's holding their breath)! We will dine on genetically enhanced livestock steaks and long-limb roes, the classic New Eden surf n turf.
No, you don't have to be a goon. But if you'd like to join, since clearly I'm an authorized Goon alt / agent / fluffer, than you can send 100 million isk to me directly, and I'll wave your application through in record time! |
Mortis vonShadow
Balanaz Mining and Development Inc.
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 01:35:00 -
[355] - Quote
This thread is way too funny. First off, you're blah blah blahing about Goons. Secondly, you're blah blah blahing about Goons. And lastly, who gives a ****. Report the botter, keep your damned mouth shut about it, move on. Nuff said. Have a nice day. Some days you're the bug, and some days your the windscreen. -á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á And some days, you're just a man with a gun. |
Hroya
2
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 01:37:00 -
[356] - Quote
Quite the repeating topic i'ld say.
As long as the game facilitates the option to run bots to gain an advantage ingame for various reasons, it will never end. The whole bot reporting, hunting them down, collecting data, dabating actions etc is a terrible waste of resources better spend on more productive aspects of the game that could use a bit of attention.
Now if you would alter the settings so that running a bot programm would be quite useless, not serve any useable benefit, then you have it dealt with.
Untill then, point away your fingers in any directions you like, file your nobel petitions, go on a crusade on the forums. You wont stop it, never.
But ask yourself this. Would you set out to do their monotomous "chores" in their place ? Would you go out and obtain those minerals yourself ? Would you pay more for hard to aquire faction loot ? Would you actually work together to build all those super dooper oversized space taxies ?
If yes, then welcome to eve as it should be. If no .. carry on with your crusade to fight the windmills.
|
Large Collidable Object
morons.
260
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 01:41:00 -
[357] - Quote
CCP should just sell bots for 5 bucks at the NeX - problem solved... morons-áare recruiting. We're good at breeding! |
Anela Cistine
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 02:22:00 -
[358] - Quote
The Apostle wrote:Quote:What we don't want is witch hunts, goon on goon trolling, and drama queens going around threatening to get people banned, or bragging about getting people banned. That creates hard feelings and tears apart alliance cohesion. So reporting falls under the "no goonfucking" rules, so that when people do it they will do it quietly. No drama. BS. The OP from Goons did not state "do it quietly". It said "don't or else"!
Because goons are dumb. Goons are also sneaky. And contrary. If you tell them to be sneaky they will be obvious. If you tell them not do something, they will still do it but they will be sneaky.
Also, Endie is a certified goodposter, he makes good posts. Sometimes making good posts means massaging the text to get the reaction(s) you want. Remember that these "internal" updates aren't leaked, we send them to evenews24, kugu, SA, etc., ourselves.
Quote:Why so much interest in the topic?
Have I really pissed someone off that much? (maybe I'd make a great Goon??)
I take no solice, I think it's just sad that Goons have to do what they're doing to sabotage this topic. Above all, I wonder why?
It is hilarious. One goon sees a funny thread, and mentions it in chat. Other goons go look, because we like funny threads. And we love attention. <3 Thanks. |
Botleten
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
30
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 02:25:00 -
[359] - Quote
Confirming, goons are attention whores in addition to being assholes. |
The Apostle
The Black Priests
139
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 02:32:00 -
[360] - Quote
Quote:Also, Endie is a certified goodposter, he makes good posts. Sometimes making good posts means massaging the text to get the reaction(s) you want. Remember that these "internal" updates aren't leaked, we send them to evenews24, kugu, SA, etc., ourselves. Good. Reaction. Achieved.
Quote:Quote:Why so much interest in the topic? Have I really pissed someone off that much? (maybe I'd make a great Goon??) I take no solice, I think it's just sad that Goons have to do what they're doing to sabotage this topic. Above all, I wonder why? It is hilarious. One goon sees a funny thread, and mentions it in chat. Other goons go look, because we like funny threads. And we love attention. <3 Thanks. My dastardly plan has been thwarted. I was really hoping my post would sneak under your radar.
Hey... errmmm..... thanks too. You guys have actually been a big help. Really.
Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo! |
|
jm24
CRICE Corp Goonswarm Federation
1
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 02:34:00 -
[361] - Quote
Darius 'JERSEY' JOHNSON:
BOT IF YOU WANT, IDGAF BUT I MIGHT FIND YOU
|
jm24
CRICE Corp Goonswarm Federation
1
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 02:34:00 -
[362] - Quote
posting in the botting immunity thread |
jm24
CRICE Corp Goonswarm Federation
1
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 02:35:00 -
[363] - Quote
EPSILON Update:
Frank looks really good in his doogles |
Homo Erectus
Evolution The Initiative.
55
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 02:36:00 -
[364] - Quote
all the goons being fgts has sidelines the possibility of goons being fgts. it works |
jm24
CRICE Corp Goonswarm Federation
1
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 02:40:00 -
[365] - Quote
Homo Erectus wrote:all the goons being fgts has sidelines the possibility of goons being fgts. it works bro stop hatin, ya aint no patrolin ere aight |
Elyssa MacLeod
GloboTech Industries
7
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 02:47:00 -
[366] - Quote
lol this thread isnt locked yet? **** FiS Its Called EVE |
CATPAIN KIRK
State War Academy Caldari State
10
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 02:53:00 -
[367] - Quote
Homo Erectus wrote:all the goons being fgts has sidelines the possibility of goons being fgts. it works
You call urself a homo wiht an erection and ur in a crop that denounces god.
SILENECE STATAN! |
The Apostle
The Black Priests
139
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 02:56:00 -
[368] - Quote
GÖ½GÖ¬ The chances of anything smart coming from Goons Is a million to one he said The chances of anything smart coming from Goons Is a million to one.....
But still theey come...... GÖ½GÖ¬ Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo! |
Lorren Canada
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
37
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 03:11:00 -
[369] - Quote
What many people fail to realize is that alliances like the GSF, TEST and ESG all come from communities outside the game. They are not EvE online communities, but only minor subsets of much larger communities which span many games and many aspects of real life. Our strength comes from these communities, because we are held together by something more than our sov, our moons or our killboard stats. To report a bot, or someone who is in some way breaking the rules of a game played by the community, is placing that game above the greater community as a whole - your priorities are out of line. This weakens the community. I hate botting and rmt, but I would never report an alliance member as that would be putting a game ahead of the community.
In many (but not all) other alliances, the only thing people have in common with each other is they play an internet spaceship game and don't really care if they report each other. They are weak because they are only a collection of people with really nothing in common to hold them together, except maybe their sov. But if they lose this, they are prone to fly apart much as R.A.G.E. or Majesta Empire did. |
Gregor Palter
74
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 03:25:00 -
[370] - Quote
Lorren Canada wrote:What many people fail to realize is that alliances like the GSF, TEST and ESG all come from communities outside the game. They are not EvE online communities, but only minor subsets of much larger communities which span many games and many aspects of real life. Our strength comes from these communities, because we are held together by something more than our sov, our moons or our killboard stats. To report a bot, or someone who is in some way breaking the rules of a game played by the community, is placing that game above the greater community as a whole - your priorities are out of line. This weakens the community. I hate botting and rmt, but I would never report an alliance member as that would be putting a game ahead of the community.
In many (but not all) other alliances, the only thing people have in common with each other is they play an internet spaceship game and don't really care if they report each other. They are weak because they are only a collection of people with really nothing in common to hold them together, except maybe their sov. But if they lose this, they are prone to fly apart much as R.A.G.E. or Majesta Empire did.
Excuses are the refuge of the weak. |
|
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Industrial Complex Cosmic Consortium
101
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 03:26:00 -
[371] - Quote
Lorren Canada wrote:To report a bot, or someone who is in some way breaking the rules of a game played by the community, is placing that game above the greater community as a whole - your priorities are out of line. This weakens the community. I hate botting and rmt, but I would never report an alliance member as that would be putting a game ahead of the community.
What weakens the community more is when you start to depend on botting as part of the game, and then that booting gets taken away from you.
Your community's presence in the game will be stronger and more meaningful if they can play the game without cheating.
Botting is a cancer that is weakening your community. You should report botting sooner rather than later, otherwise you are allowing the cancer to set in, and eventually when that cancer is cut out by the people running the game, your community will lose valuable members along with the cancer.
|
Holy Shoot
Eighty Joule Brewery Goonswarm Federation
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 03:40:00 -
[372] - Quote
I missed the part where it said "Don't report bots." Can you bold it for me?
If everyone jumped to conclusions like this ****** OP people would be calling INS on every Mexican they see walking down the street in Arizona as an illegal alien. |
Lorren Canada
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
37
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 03:40:00 -
[373] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:Lorren Canada wrote:To report a bot, or someone who is in some way breaking the rules of a game played by the community, is placing that game above the greater community as a whole - your priorities are out of line. This weakens the community. I hate botting and rmt, but I would never report an alliance member as that would be putting a game ahead of the community. What weakens the community more is when you start to depend on botting as part of the game...
While there are certainly botters in our community, it's quite a stretch to imply in any way we depend on botting. If all bots were instantly gone tomorrow, most of us wouldn't even notice. |
Spineker
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
21
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 03:42:00 -
[374] - Quote
Botting should have been destroyed by CCP long ago but they allow it or can't do anything about it. Sad or stupid last year 40K people playing on Alaskan time was the common. Today 25k is common so CCP broke many things between now and then. Including allowing bots to run wild. CCP lost the snake and the snake is going to bite them. |
Spineker
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
21
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 03:43:00 -
[375] - Quote
No one likes a game that allows open cheating. That is not my issue that is CCP's issue and they need to take action if it is too late that was their fault. They failed. |
Dionah Carlinton Housney
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 03:47:00 -
[376] - Quote
Brooson wrote:01010100 01101000 01101001 01110011 00100000 01110100 01101000 01110010 01100101 01100001 01100100 00100000 01101001 01110011 00100000 01100001 00100000 01110100 01100101 01110010 01110010 01101001 01100010 01101100 01100101 00101110 00100000 01000001 01101100 01101101 01101111 01110011 01110100 00100000 01100001 01110011 00100000 01110100 01100101 01110010 01110010 01101001 01100010 01101100 01100101 00100000 01100001 01110011 00100000 01000111 01101111 01101111 01101110 01110011 01110111 01100001 01110010 01101101 00101110
Translate Binary
beep boop beep beep beep boop
"This thread is a terrible. Almost as terrible as Goonswarm." |
The Apostle
The Black Priests
140
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 03:50:00 -
[377] - Quote
Quote:If everyone jumped to conclusions like this ****** OP people would be calling INS on every Mexican they see walking down the street in Arizona as an illegal alien. Me. A redneck. lawlz....
This might even be funny....
If I lived in the US.
But alas, I live in Australia dude.
Our sheep have 4 legs. Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo! |
Spineker
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
21
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 03:52:00 -
[378] - Quote
The Apostle wrote:Quote:If everyone jumped to conclusions like this ****** OP people would be calling INS on every Mexican they see walking down the street in Arizona as an illegal alien. Me. A redneck. lawlz.... This might even be funny.... If I lived in the US. But alas, I live in Australia dude. Our sheep have 4 legs.
Or fools have two. |
Hratli Smirks
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
53
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 03:53:00 -
[379] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote:Not jumping into the heated rhetorical nature of this thread I did see some comments that I'd just like to get a statement on the record about. When making determinations regarding bans for botting the alliance, corporation, political beliefs, gender or any other anecdotal information about the offender aren't taken into account. At least not in a way that would be considered a net positive to the group the botter belongs to.
Detections determine the administrative action, not corporation or alliance membership.
That being said, if we feel there's a problem pattern developing we will take action to rectify it. Alliances and corporations should not be encouraging malicious/illegal activity and if we see evidence of this occurring action will be taken. I would heartily encourage alliances and corporations not to condone illegal activities.
why don't you snort some cheese about it, fat man? |
The Apostle
The Black Priests
140
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 03:56:00 -
[380] - Quote
Spineker wrote:The Apostle wrote:Quote:If everyone jumped to conclusions like this ****** OP people would be calling INS on every Mexican they see walking down the street in Arizona as an illegal alien. Me. A redneck. lawlz.... This might even be funny.... If I lived in the US. But alas, I live in Australia dude. Our sheep have 4 legs. Or fools have two. Ouch that hurt and you're not even a Goon! Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo! |
|
Zagdul
Clan Shadow Wolf Fatal Ascension
25
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 03:58:00 -
[381] - Quote
Can someone point me to the part where anyone in Goons said not to report bots?
I did see them asking their pilots not to shoot each other and "police" each other as it'd be considered "Goon fu^*ing"
But I can't find where everyone is in an uproar about someone claiming that botting is legitimate or that it shouldn't be reported.
pretty confused here about all the drama.
Story I read:
Dude thinks another dude is botting, dude shot dude who's blue for what he thought was and policed his own alliance. CEO says that it's not the "grunts" job to police pilots, it's CCP's.
Vile Rat comes in later to re-affirm not to "police" fellow pilots who you think are botting and encourages using the report feature. Not your weapons.
How is this so controversial and confusing?
|
Spineker
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
21
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 03:59:00 -
[382] - Quote
The Apostle wrote:Spineker wrote:The Apostle wrote:Quote:If everyone jumped to conclusions like this ****** OP people would be calling INS on every Mexican they see walking down the street in Arizona as an illegal alien. Me. A redneck. lawlz.... This might even be funny.... If I lived in the US. But alas, I live in Australia dude. Our sheep have 4 legs. Our fools have two. Here. I fixed it for you.
Haha no brother you are a fool don't you get it? A bigot also |
The Apostle
The Black Priests
140
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 04:03:00 -
[383] - Quote
Woot. Zag. \o/
Getting serious is it bro?
Now The Mittani is calling on pet CEO's to obfuscate the post.
I am honored.
As you were.
Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo! |
Cypermethren
Celtic Cartage And Hauling
12
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 04:04:00 -
[384] - Quote
Lorren Canada wrote:What many people fail to realize is that alliances like the GSF, TEST and ESG all come from communities outside the game. They are not EvE online communities, but only minor subsets of much larger communities which span many games and many aspects of real life. Our strength comes from these communities, because we are held together by something more than our sov, our moons or our killboard stats. To report a bot, or someone who is in some way breaking the rules of a game played by the community, is placing that game above the greater community as a whole - your priorities are out of line. This weakens the community. I hate botting and rmt, but I would never report an alliance member as that would be putting a game ahead of the community.
In many (but not all) other alliances, the only thing people have in common with each other is they play an internet spaceship game and don't really care if they report each other. They are weak because they are only a collection of people with really nothing in common to hold them together, except maybe their sov. But if they lose this, they are prone to fly apart much as R.A.G.E. or Majesta Empire did.
THANKYOU for proving another pont!
It's safe to say - if people in GSF, TEST and ESG - care only about THEIR community, and not the EVE community - why should they ever be allowed to become a CSM and influence the direction that the game is going?
This , again goes to further prove there is a serious conflict of interest with the CSM panel |
Zagdul
Clan Shadow Wolf Fatal Ascension
25
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 04:06:00 -
[385] - Quote
The Apostle wrote:Woot. Zag. \o/
Getting serious is it bro?
Now The Mittani is calling on pet CEO's to obfuscate the post.
I am honored.
As you were.
Penif alt detected. |
Zagdul
Clan Shadow Wolf Fatal Ascension
28
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 04:07:00 -
[386] - Quote
Cypermethren wrote:Lorren Canada wrote:What many people fail to realize is that alliances like the GSF, TEST and ESG all come from communities outside the game. They are not EvE online communities, but only minor subsets of much larger communities which span many games and many aspects of real life. Our strength comes from these communities, because we are held together by something more than our sov, our moons or our killboard stats. To report a bot, or someone who is in some way breaking the rules of a game played by the community, is placing that game above the greater community as a whole - your priorities are out of line. This weakens the community. I hate botting and rmt, but I would never report an alliance member as that would be putting a game ahead of the community.
In many (but not all) other alliances, the only thing people have in common with each other is they play an internet spaceship game and don't really care if they report each other. They are weak because they are only a collection of people with really nothing in common to hold them together, except maybe their sov. But if they lose this, they are prone to fly apart much as R.A.G.E. or Majesta Empire did. THANKYOU for proving another pont! It's safe to say - if people in GSF, TEST and ESG - care only about THEIR community, and not the EVE community - why should they ever be allowed to become a CSM and influence the direction that the game is going? This , again goes to further prove there is a serious conflict of interest with the CSM panel Because their community takes up quite a large portion of the game and they should be represented in order their game doesn't become unfun?
Just a thought here.
It's not Rocket Surgery |
Headerman
Quovis Shadow of xXDEATHXx
132
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 04:08:00 -
[387] - Quote
Zagdul wrote:Can someone point me to the part where anyone in Goons said not to report bots?
Right here, on the OP:
Quote:we have one rule in Goonswarm: we donGÇÖt **** other goons. Oh and we donGÇÖt play cop for CCP in their own game by reporting or petitioning goons
I thought that was pretty plain as day, no? [img]http://i53.tinypic.com/bebnf8.jpg[/img] |
Zagdul
Clan Shadow Wolf Fatal Ascension
28
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 04:12:00 -
[388] - Quote
Headerman wrote:Zagdul wrote:Can someone point me to the part where anyone in Goons said not to report bots? Right here, on the OP: Quote:we have one rule in Goonswarm: we donGÇÖt **** other goons. Oh and we donGÇÖt play cop for CCP in their own game by reporting or petitioning goons I thought that was pretty plain as day, no? The bandwagoning from Shadow of xXDeathXx is pretty damn ironic.
just sayn'
It's not Rocket Surgery |
Headerman
Quovis Shadow of xXDEATHXx
132
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 04:15:00 -
[389] - Quote
Zagdul wrote:Headerman wrote:Zagdul wrote:Can someone point me to the part where anyone in Goons said not to report bots? Right here, on the OP: Quote:we have one rule in Goonswarm: we donGÇÖt **** other goons. Oh and we donGÇÖt play cop for CCP in their own game by reporting or petitioning goons I thought that was pretty plain as day, no? The bandwagoning from Shadow of xXDeathXx is pretty damn ironic. just sayn'
Your mom [img]http://i53.tinypic.com/bebnf8.jpg[/img] |
Lorren Canada
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
39
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 04:15:00 -
[390] - Quote
Zagdul wrote:Headerman wrote:Zagdul wrote:Can someone point me to the part where anyone in Goons said not to report bots? Right here, on the OP: Quote:we have one rule in Goonswarm: we donGÇÖt **** other goons. Oh and we donGÇÖt play cop for CCP in their own game by reporting or petitioning goons I thought that was pretty plain as day, no? The bandwagoning from Shadow of xXDeathXx is pretty damn ironic. just sayn'
zing. |
|
Desert Ice78
Gryphon River Industries R-I-P
6
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 04:18:00 -
[391] - Quote
Zagdul wrote:Headerman wrote:Zagdul wrote:Can someone point me to the part where anyone in Goons said not to report bots? Right here, on the OP: Quote:we have one rule in Goonswarm: we donGÇÖt **** other goons. Oh and we donGÇÖt play cop for CCP in their own game by reporting or petitioning goons I thought that was pretty plain as day, no? The bandwagoning from Shadow of xXDeathXx is pretty damn ironic. just sayn'
Ye, and you have some point to make? Beside having no responce? I am a Pod Pilot:
http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1109/Hostile-Takeover-by-Marek-Okon[1].jpg
|
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
48
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 04:31:00 -
[392] - Quote
Zagdul wrote:.......
Vile Rat comes in later to re-affirm not to "police" fellow pilots who you think are botting and encourages using the report feature. Not your weapons.
How is this so controversial and confusing?
Its confusing because reporting a bot IS policing the game for CCP. Sure not shooting makes sense, after all you want CCP to make the actual determination.
But reporting a bot is policing the game. Saying "Do not police, report bots" is contradictory.
CCP employees should never proclaim a feature to be awesome. Only subscribers should. |
The Apostle
The Black Priests
140
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 04:31:00 -
[393] - Quote
Quote:Penif alt detected. I'm new here. What is this?
He's wrong but I want to know why he is wrong.
EDIT: I did a Google search and got this.
"altPeni*.com - News and research on men's reproductive health, peni* problems, STDs and sexual wellbeing."
Was this it? Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo! |
Cypermethren
Celtic Cartage And Hauling
13
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 04:46:00 -
[394] - Quote
Zagdul wrote:Cypermethren wrote:Lorren Canada wrote:What many people fail to realize is that alliances like the GSF, TEST and ESG all come from communities outside the game. They are not EvE online communities, but only minor subsets of much larger communities which span many games and many aspects of real life. Our strength comes from these communities, because we are held together by something more than our sov, our moons or our killboard stats. To report a bot, or someone who is in some way breaking the rules of a game played by the community, is placing that game above the greater community as a whole - your priorities are out of line. This weakens the community. I hate botting and rmt, but I would never report an alliance member as that would be putting a game ahead of the community.
In many (but not all) other alliances, the only thing people have in common with each other is they play an internet spaceship game and don't really care if they report each other. They are weak because they are only a collection of people with really nothing in common to hold them together, except maybe their sov. But if they lose this, they are prone to fly apart much as R.A.G.E. or Majesta Empire did. THANKYOU for proving another pont! It's safe to say - if people in GSF, TEST and ESG - care only about THEIR community, and not the EVE community - why should they ever be allowed to become a CSM and influence the direction that the game is going? This , again goes to further prove there is a serious conflict of interest with the CSM panel Because their community takes up quite a large portion of the game and they should be represented in order their game doesn't become unfun? Just a thought here.
Sorry to deflate yer ego, but there are far more players in highsec, wormholes and elsewhere in 0.0 than there are in GSF. Therefor you represent a part of the community, but nowhere near a large enough portion to give the go ahead, or deny changes to the game that effect EVERYONE in a significant way, not just yourselves and you're particular playstyle.
And everyone whom is not in GSF will agree with me here, that what you class as "fun" - others class as "boring as shite"
Another example about how you are looking out for only yourselves, a small portion of the playerbase , and not the whole eve community is the suggestion to lower or remove ABC's from wormholes. This is ignoring the entire highsec, lowsec and FW gameplay needs, and what they class as fun.
Could you tell me that you honestly believe that this idea to remove ABC's from wormholes, in effect forcing more people to 0.0 , something that they've deliberately chosen NOT to do by going into a wormhole for the ABC's in the first place - is an idea that benefits the greater eve community, or only the GSF portion of the community?
|
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Industrial Complex Cosmic Consortium
101
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 04:46:00 -
[395] - Quote
Zagdul wrote:Headerman wrote:Zagdul wrote:Can someone point me to the part where anyone in Goons said not to report bots? Right here, on the OP: Quote:we have one rule in Goonswarm: we donGÇÖt **** other goons. Oh and we donGÇÖt play cop for CCP in their own game by reporting or petitioning goons I thought that was pretty plain as day, no? The bandwagoning from Shadow of xXDeathXx is pretty damn ironic. just sayn'
The words you're not saying are the loudest ones.
Shame, Zagdul. I had great respect for Fatal Ascension and I wish I could have spent more time with you guys. For you to condone botting like this leaves an awful after taste on my memories.
|
Headerman
Quovis Shadow of xXDEATHXx
133
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 04:48:00 -
[396] - Quote
The Apostle wrote:Quote:Penif alt detected. I'm new here. What is this? He's wrong but I want to know why he is wrong. EDIT: I did a Google search and got this. "altPeni*.com - News and research on men's reproductive health, peni* problems, STDs and sexual wellbeing." Was this it?
He means Penifsmash, a dood in PL [img]http://i53.tinypic.com/bebnf8.jpg[/img] |
The Apostle
The Black Priests
140
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 04:55:00 -
[397] - Quote
Headerman wrote:The Apostle wrote:Quote:Penif alt detected. I'm new here. What is this? He's wrong but I want to know why he is wrong. EDIT: I did a Google search and got this. "altPeni*.com - News and research on men's reproductive health, peni* problems, STDs and sexual wellbeing." Was this it? He means Penifsmash, a dood in PL Cough. Ohhh.... I'm honored I think (are PL good?)
But alas, I'm not.
Is PL recruting? Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo! |
Apollo-Moor
xHELLonEARTHx Rookie Empire
14
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 04:58:00 -
[398] - Quote
I think this thread has accomplished what it was set out to do. Expose a seemingly and quite convicing cover up attempt for GSF on their botting policy. They said in so many words that they don't want Goons reporting other Goon botters. That they should be protected by Alliance members and leave all the "****-n-giggles" of finding them to us hapless losers and the even bigger chumps at CCP.
They closed by threatening anyone who is found to of reported or destroyed botters will face auto-reset basically and have then "cluterfuckedomfgforthewins".
What I get from Sreegs responses is that although CCP is aware of botting in these larger Alliances and have their own "spies" within these corps that they still can't do anything about it. Until they have insurmountable evidence of botting. Meaning you'd have to have times, habbits, logofski-logonski results, chat window results, and whatever other craziness would be required.
What I also get is EVEN if one of these CCP spies were to witness a botter that they would still not be able to do anything. Since they are within the Alliance and for them to report may seem a bit shady as they may be in attempts to break an Alliance up. The reason it's like that CCP is by your own doing T20's, seemingly biased and corrupt CSM's and just the rampent cess-pool of backstabbery that EVE is (Not really a bad thing).
They want evidence in a amount sadly, most of us will not be able to produce. So that limits the actual impact our playerbase can have on botting. Especially with way some larger Alliances who's policy is "Snitches-get-Stiches"...
I don't see how you reporting a bot makes you snitch. Its a ******* game, no real life and even then there are situations where snitching is the only option.
Reporting a botter does not declare you as unloyal to your Alliance, it counts you as an upstanding member who cares for the entergrity of the game. You don't care what colour someones tag is or whatever half-****** Alliance they belong to. All that matters is the botter and getting them out of your game.
I wont lie, it'd be hard to right click report botter on someone who I had been aligned with for sometimes. But I'm sure if they knew me the player, they would know I don't support the action and wouldn't tell me to begin with or all out not hang with me at all..
This here is true.. +1 my own post.. Don't hate on the facts as they are GSF and ANY other participating in these actions. You were stupid enough to even come up and create such policy to be viewed by the public. I apprecite the 10% troll behind your efforts in your policy. |
Lorren Canada
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
39
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 05:13:00 -
[399] - Quote
Apollo-Moor wrote:I don't see how you reporting a bot makes you snitch. Its a ******* game, no real life and even then there are situations where snitching is the only option.
Obviously you did not read my post about how we come from communities outside the game, and we play for the community, not the game. It's more than a game to us because of the community we share within and without.
Quote:What many people fail to realize is that alliances like the GSF, TEST and ESG all come from communities outside the game. They are not EvE online communities, but only minor subsets of much larger communities which span many games and many aspects of real life. Our strength comes from these communities, because we are held together by something more than our sov, our moons or our killboard stats. To report a bot, or someone who is in some way breaking the rules of a game played by the community, is placing that game above the greater community as a whole - your priorities are out of line. This weakens the community. I hate botting and rmt, but I would never report an alliance member as that would be putting a game ahead of the community.
In many (but not all) other alliances, the only thing people have in common with each other is they play an internet spaceship game and don't really care if they report each other. They are weak because they are only a collection of people with really nothing in common to hold them together, except maybe their sov. But if they lose this, they are prone to fly apart much as R.A.G.E. or Majesta Empire did. |
Apollo-Moor
xHELLonEARTHx Rookie Empire
15
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 05:26:00 -
[400] - Quote
Lorren Canada wrote:Apollo-Moor wrote:I don't see how you reporting a bot makes you snitch. Its a ******* game, no real life and even then there are situations where snitching is the only option. [quote=Lorren Canada]Obviously you did not read my post about how we come from communities outside the game, and we play for the community, not the game. It's more than a game to us because of the community we share within and without.
All this tells me is that.. You have been cheating in games together for a very long time and that both of your hands are too bloody to "snitch" on the other.
Next...
|
|
Vile rat
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
209
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 06:27:00 -
[401] - Quote
Just stopping by this horrible thread to point out that the report bot function is anonymous to users and doesn't send a little flag to to the ceo or anything ok well later gator. |
Richard Hammond II
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
54
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 06:34:00 -
[402] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:Zagdul wrote:.......
Vile Rat comes in later to re-affirm not to "police" fellow pilots who you think are botting and encourages using the report feature. Not your weapons.
How is this so controversial and confusing?
Its confusing because reporting a bot IS policing the game for CCP. Sure not shooting makes sense, after all you want CCP to make the actual determination. But reporting a bot is policing the game. Saying "Do not police, report bots" is contradictory.
yes and CCP realizing this, putting in the report bot feature, isnt that kinda them condoning the practice, in a backhanded sorta way? "we'll put in this report bot feature so we have that to point to when ppl start complaining about the numbers of botters in 0.0. Never mind the fact that we know full well the 0.0 alliances arent gonna report their own members FOR botting in the first place."
What did they honestly think that button was going to accomplish other than be the first weapon to be fired off in a war lol I can see a rise in botting reports when someone starts an offensive against another corp but I dont expect this would be a regular thing for them cause even as CSM sponsored beliefs are "dont **** over your own corp" by reporting them for botting. They hired actual clothing designers for WiS clothes "no wonder the monocle cost $80, they had to pay royalties" Screw "FiS" its called EVE CCP |
Psychophantic
43
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 07:07:00 -
[403] - Quote
Vile rat wrote:Just stopping by this horrible thread to point out that the report bot function is anonymous to users and doesn't send a little flag to to the ceo or anything ok well later gator.
So is Skreegs still part of your "community" ?
|
rodyas
The Scope Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 07:11:00 -
[404] - Quote
I for one enjoy the bots, and are glad they are in this game as in many other great games. They came to diablo 2 and made that great, they are in WoW, and( bitched more about here sadly with that for children game) then now they are here.
I welcome out new bot overlords, that have successful ruined the forums past, players, csm, goons, and CCP apperently(but the new blue posts are nice, so dont count them out) or course DRF has ignored them cause they are bad ass.
Oh well a great past year with bots we have had, and great christmas with mining and ratting bots are ahead of us. Let us be thankful for what the bots have brought and taught us all how frail and human we all are.
Merry thanksgiving
|
rodyas
The Scope Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 07:13:00 -
[405] - Quote
Also not really bad yet for goons, cause lowtax isnt here. He is like mom spawn for them and such. |
Vin Hellsing
73
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 07:14:00 -
[406] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:
Your community's presence in the game will be stronger and more meaningful if they can play the game without cheating.
This. Is. Truth.
Moral nihilism be damned, I place great value in being able to adhere to my principles, and finding people who respect said principles.
That said, if Goonswarm and other alliances have no problem with botting, and are not inclined to report it, then they are people who "respect' each other for their choices and principles.
However, those principles are out of line with what have been the common norm in life. That is to say, to respect other people's standards and the necessity of playing by the rules to win. Botting in EVE is like a MLB player taking steroids. Except that in Alliances, you have a very low risk of being reported.
Personally, I think CCP should lean really hard on The Mittani if he wants to save face...let alone his entire precious alliance.
If I were the head GM or in a senior management position at CCP, I would have taken Goonswarm, White Noise, and RED/RDF to task, and if they failed to live up to the standards set forth by the EULA, I would have taken action. What form that action takes, I'll gladly let your imaginations do the work...all I can say is that it would be painful to both the alliances and CCP. |
Richard Hammond II
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
54
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 07:20:00 -
[407] - Quote
Vin Hellsing wrote:
That said, if Goonswarm and other alliances have no problem with botting, and are not inclined to report it, then they are people who "respect' each other for their choices and principles.
Yeah sorry I stopped reading when you used "Goonswarm" and "respect each other" in the same sentance. It was too funny
Vin Hellsing wrote: If I were the head GM or in a senior management position at CCP, I would have taken Goonswarm, White Noise, and RED/RDF to task, and if they failed to live up to the standards set forth by the EULA, I would have taken action. What form that action takes, I'll gladly let your imaginations do the work...all I can say is that it would be painful to both the alliances and CCP.
OK I kept reading
They failed to take BoB "to task" when it was proven they knew a member of their alliance was a Dev and was cheating for them by spawning them **** back in T20... If theyre not gonna punish a alliance for that theyre damn sure not giving a **** over botting. No matter how much noise they make that they will or how many (ex goon) CCP guys they get to come in this thread and saber rattle They hired actual clothing designers for WiS clothes "no wonder the monocle cost $80, they had to pay royalties" Screw "FiS" its called EVE CCP |
Vin Hellsing
73
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 07:21:00 -
[408] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote:Homo Erectus wrote:f the coordinated wrong and the definition rewrite. how about a 30 byte addendum to the eula with something to the effect of "we reserve to smack the **** out of groups who condone or look the other way concerning botting". I'm sure your lawyers can reword that with style.
ps. the Somethingawful children are coordinated tick spawn, just as Eve University are coordinated puppy farts (re: powerblock issue voting). We already reserve that right...
Then, please, by all means...
Show them what it means to flout the rules of the Dungeon Master.
|
Vin Hellsing
73
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 07:22:00 -
[409] - Quote
Richard Hammond II wrote:Vin Hellsing wrote:
That said, if Goonswarm and other alliances have no problem with botting, and are not inclined to report it, then they are people who "respect' each other for their choices and principles.
Yeah sorry I stopped reading when you used "Goonswarm" and "respect each other" in the same sentance. It was too funny
I know, I had a snerk escape my throat when I typed that out. That's why I put the word "respect' in quotation marks. It doesn't mean real, proper respect as we know it... |
Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
14
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 07:23:00 -
[410] - Quote
Psychophantic wrote:Vile rat wrote:Just stopping by this horrible thread to point out that the report bot function is anonymous to users and doesn't send a little flag to to the ceo or anything ok well later gator. So is Skreegs still part of your "community" ?
yes he's still the shadow CEO running things from his Reykjavik botting bunker |
|
Richard Hammond II
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
54
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 07:24:00 -
[411] - Quote
Scatim Helicon wrote:Psychophantic wrote:Vile rat wrote:Just stopping by this horrible thread to point out that the report bot function is anonymous to users and doesn't send a little flag to to the ceo or anything ok well later gator. So is Skreegs still part of your "community" ? yes he's still the shadow CEO running things from his Reykjavik botting bunker
see, this is funny cause if random poster started accusing CCP of botting etc, they get slapped for it. I know, I have.
They hired actual clothing designers for WiS clothes "no wonder the monocle cost $80, they had to pay royalties" Screw "FiS" its called EVE CCP |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Industrial Complex Cosmic Consortium
103
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 07:34:00 -
[412] - Quote
Vile rat wrote:Just stopping by this horrible thread to point out that the report bot function is anonymous to users and doesn't send a little flag to to the ceo or anything ok well later gator.
No, it sends the "Player X reported Y as a suspected bot" message to CCP Sreegs who is a Goon.
I'd certainly appreciate some indication that there are technical measures in place to prevent anyone from receiving messages such as "Player X reported Y as a suspected bot". Anonymised at point of collection, and all that jazz.
Developers aren't above providing a little help to their friends, after all. Which is why the CSM was created in the first place. It would be a shame to see Goons subverting this player oversight committee to perform greater misdeeds than T20 was ever guilty of.
Vile Rat's attempted deflection only throws more fuel on the fire.
|
Richard Hammond II
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
54
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 07:38:00 -
[413] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:Vile rat wrote:Just stopping by this horrible thread to point out that the report bot function is anonymous to users and doesn't send a little flag to to the ceo or anything ok well later gator. No, it sends the "Player X reported Y as a suspected bot" message to CCP Sreegs who is a Goon. I'd certainly appreciate some indication that there are technical measures in place to prevent anyone from receiving messages such as "Player X reported Y as a suspected bot". Anonymised at point of collection, and all that jazz. Developers aren't above providing a little help to their friends, after all. Which is why the CSM was created in the first place. It would be a shame to see Goons subverting this player oversight committee to perform greater misdeeds than T20 was ever guilty of. Vile Rat's attempted deflection only throws more fuel on the fire.
true story
Doesnt help that theyre hiring from within Goons as far as security (thats just damn funny really - "we want to destroy your game but yeah Ill hire on to work FOR the game on the security team") goes. They hired actual clothing designers for WiS clothes "no wonder the monocle cost $80, they had to pay royalties" Screw "FiS" its called EVE CCP |
Apollo-Moor
xHELLonEARTHx Rookie Empire
16
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 07:47:00 -
[414] - Quote
rodyas wrote:I for one enjoy the bots, and are glad they are in this game as in many other great games. They came to diablo 2 and made that great, they are in WoW, and( bitched more about here sadly with that for children game) then now they are here.
I welcome out new bot overlords, that have successful ruined the forums past, players, csm, goons, and CCP apperently(but the new blue posts are nice, so dont count them out) or course DRF has ignored them cause they are bad ass.
Oh well a great past year with bots we have had, and great christmas with mining and ratting bots are ahead of us. Let us be thankful for what the bots have brought and taught us all how frail and human we all are.
Merry thanksgiving
These BOTS have evolved to become self-aware! They've begun to post on the forums. EGAD!
|
Vile rat
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
209
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 07:48:00 -
[415] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:Vile rat wrote:Just stopping by this horrible thread to point out that the report bot function is anonymous to users and doesn't send a little flag to to the ceo or anything ok well later gator. No, it sends the "Player X reported Y as a suspected bot" message to CCP Sreegs who is a Goon. I'd certainly appreciate some indication that there are technical measures in place to prevent anyone from receiving messages such as "Player X reported Y as a suspected bot". Anonymised at point of collection, and all that jazz. Developers aren't above providing a little help to their friends, after all. Which is why the CSM was created in the first place. It would be a shame to see Goons subverting this player oversight committee to perform greater misdeeds than T20 was ever guilty of. Vile Rat's attempted deflection only throws more fuel on the fire.
Wait so you're suggesting that a CCP employee is ignoring reports about cheating from one faction? You are literally saying this.
Honest question, were you dropped on your head as a child?
|
Apollo-Moor
xHELLonEARTHx Rookie Empire
16
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 07:57:00 -
[416] - Quote
Vile rat wrote:Mara Rinn wrote:Vile rat wrote:Just stopping by this horrible thread to point out that the report bot function is anonymous to users and doesn't send a little flag to to the ceo or anything ok well later gator. No, it sends the "Player X reported Y as a suspected bot" message to CCP Sreegs who is a Goon. I'd certainly appreciate some indication that there are technical measures in place to prevent anyone from receiving messages such as "Player X reported Y as a suspected bot". Anonymised at point of collection, and all that jazz. Developers aren't above providing a little help to their friends, after all. Which is why the CSM was created in the first place. It would be a shame to see Goons subverting this player oversight committee to perform greater misdeeds than T20 was ever guilty of. Vile Rat's attempted deflection only throws more fuel on the fire. Wait so you're suggesting that a CCP employee is ignoring reports about cheating from one faction? You are literally saying this. Honest question, were you dropped on your head as a child?
Guy you've failed in your defense of GSF and have failed them as CSM. Go hang your toon off Jitas undock.. He is failure
|
Ladie Scarlet
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
226
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 07:58:00 -
[417] - Quote
This thread is glorious. The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
Florestan Bronstein
United Engineering Services
75
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 08:17:00 -
[418] - Quote
Zagdul wrote:How is this so controversial and confusing?
Endie wrote:we donGÇÖt play cop for CCP in their own game by reporting or petitioning goons, either
Vile Rat wrote:There is a report bot mechanism, we encourage people to use it.
conclusion: it's fine to report bots but it is not fine to report goons (or goon bots). Confusion solved, no real surprises.
(In fact the answer to any internal discussion about "omg botting is immoral and WRONG" used to be "if you want to report bots you are welcome to do so - in DRF space") |
Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
14
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 08:18:00 -
[419] - Quote
Ladie Scarlet wrote:This thread is glorious.
Thanks to my excellent posting, yes! |
Apollo-Moor
xHELLonEARTHx Rookie Empire
16
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 08:26:00 -
[420] - Quote
Scatim Helicon wrote:Ladie Scarlet wrote:This thread is glorious. Thanks to my excellent posting, yes!
Someone get these two some medals.. LoL
|
|
Florestan Bronstein
United Engineering Services
75
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 08:34:00 -
[421] - Quote
Just an idea I had while reading all the dev favoritism comments:
"Would you risk losing your job for a small advantage in a videogame? I am t20 and EVE is real."
It's interesting to see how the whole "EVE is real" stance sticks in player's minds - Sreegs as a RL person is obviously driven by the desire to destroy your EVE and all his life (including job choices) is just a tool in the pursuit of this glorious goal.
No way a cheese-snorting goon in a vintage bomber jacket could be less than serious when asked to speak in front of a sizable "pubbie" audience... |
The Apostle
The Black Priests
142
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 08:36:00 -
[422] - Quote
Quote:Just stopping by this horrible thread to point out that the report bot function is anonymous to users and doesn't send a little flag to to the ceo or anything ok well later gator. This much we worked out on our own. Thank you for sharing. Perhaps have a chat with Endie and explain it to him for his next erudite explanation of Goon policy.
He MISSED that bit.....
Oh sorry. You're CSM!!!!! Been told to clarify your stance have we?!
Quote:This thread is glorious. Scarlet!! Sweetheart. WHAT took you sooooo long?
I did a thing.
Just for you.
And you failed me. Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo! |
Ildur Amaenar
Epidemic Inc.
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 09:06:00 -
[423] - Quote
Vile rat wrote: From a post earlier of Rat : ARE YOU DOWNGRADING TO CAVERAT?? WHERE IS THE EVOLVED WAY OF TALKING??
Short story for those who tl;dr here is a shortcut.
3 or more posts from a GM that has no clue how to bs us. Making statements that can be interpreted as don`t give a sh**/ Goons is my alliance
2 or more posts from CSM that say "WE DON`T POLICE" but we encourage ppl to report. (WTF is reporting then? aren`t you observing the behavior? aren`t you gaining evidence for why X is botting?
I just love how ppl learned how to talk to cover the bs behind a curtain..
dumb goon: Hey what is that behind the curtain, is that sh** ?
CSM guy: Your eyes deceive you. And we aren`t saying sh** anymore you CAVEMAN: now it is RAINBOW.
dumb goon: But it stinks in here...
CSM guy with an alliance: HEY. WE DON`T POLICE FOR CCP. WERE you dropped in your head.. blah blah?
CSM alt: oh CSM guy, you are so shiny, please be my prince
dumb goon: so, if I try to test if that is a bot? and try to gain evidence for CCP (or else I can report all EVE)
CSM alt: troll troll
goon alt: troll troll
CSM guy: OUR statement is clear: We DON`T police. If you are caught doing police work you are expelled, but we encourage you to police, and we do stand for non botting.
dumb goon: but I caught this bot, and I shot at him to see if he is changing it`s behavior ....
CSM guy: WTH?? My al... What you saw was rainbow, and in our alliance we don`t shoot at rainbows you dumb... You broke our code. We will blow all your stuff up. Sorry. You just lost 10 bln Isk troll troll
|
Apollo-Moor
xHELLonEARTHx Rookie Empire
16
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 09:15:00 -
[424] - Quote
That was funny.. |
The Groundskeeper
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
5
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 10:10:00 -
[425] - Quote
I guess that doesn't make such a good story, though. |
Mallikanth
Awakened Brotherhood The Brotherhood Alliance
13
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 10:17:00 -
[426] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote:Mallikanth wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:... I mean evidence of coordinated wrongdoing. CCP Sreegs, what do you mean by "coordinated "? It gives me the impression that because you need other people to coordinate anything then any evidence of a "lone" botter is not wanted? Surely that can't be right but I can think of no other logical meaning for the way this is phrased. A botter should be reported no matter what or who he's working with. And on a related note, can you give examples as to what classes as Evidence? Player logs definitely show nothing last time I checked. Thanks. I'm REALLY uninterested in interfering with this thread, or its allegations. I have no opinion on them specifically and if I did the opinion would be carried out either in the action or inaction of an administrative response. I don't really expect to get good feedback, but what I DO expect is that I can lay out for you quite clearly that we do not condone malicious behavior and that given proof of that behavior we will act on it. Some of you will say we won't, but I'm saying we will. It's really futile for me to argue with you on the internet about whether something I say is true, as only I can see what's occurring from my perspective. Getting into a war of words isn't what I'm here for. This thread is not about the lone botter. There's a mechanism in place, that we built, for you to handle such. This thread is about allegations of organized corporate misconduct, which then had the allegation that we were somehow implicit in this misconduct attached to it. So... the ONLY reason I even posted in this wonderful thread was to state quite categorically that our detection and action on botting activities is clinical. We're not taking sides. We're not choosing not to act because we're scared that *insert x group of players here* is going to get mad. We're acting on our results which are evidence based. What is evidence you ask? Words on a forum aren't it. If you believe that there is some ACTION which can be examined and responded to is occurring, then I'm happy to hear what you have to say, conduct an analysis and handle things on our end. What's simply NOT going to happen is for someone to paste some text on a forum and for us to run out and ban a bunch of people. That's just crazy speak. If you suspect someone of botting, report them using the tool. If you suspect greater misconduct, email me and if I'm able to prove your allegations they'll be acted upon appropriately. If you believe someone at CCP isn't acting appropriately, myself included, you're ENCOURAGED to report said behavior to IA. If you believe that CCP isn't acting on whomever you think should be acted on because we're somehow profiting from it I can tell you that's some tinfoil hattery. You can then call me a liar and a lot of people's time will be wasted reading it and coming away unfulfilled. We do not believe we benefit from people cheating and when we find such behavior we act on it. We don't have to go run to the CFO every time we catch someone doing something terrible because we lack the courage or desire to deliver a level playing field. tl;dr if you have something you think should be looked at mail it to me.
I can sense the tension in this post and I fully understand :) Thanks for the feedback tho.
I have no decent Signature because.. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=24223#post24223 |
Mallikanth
Awakened Brotherhood The Brotherhood Alliance
13
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 10:26:00 -
[427] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:Mara Tessidar wrote:Also, Mittens doesn't represent you to CCP. He represents Goons.Which means Goons are controlling your game. Just thought I'd remind you of that. 1: For some reason I like Mittens. 2: Jokes aside, statements like that will ensure that he won't be re-elected.
For some reason I too agree with point one here.
If he still has the energy and will I wouldn't mind him being re-elected in any capacity so long as he continues to keep CCP on their toes.
Believe it or not I'm not a Goon alt! and nether do I have a brown tongue
I have no decent Signature because.. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=24223#post24223 |
jm24
CRICE Corp Goonswarm Federation
9
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 11:15:00 -
[428] - Quote
Zagdul wrote:The Apostle wrote:Woot. Zag. \o/
Getting serious is it bro?
Now The Mittani is calling on pet CEO's to obfuscate the post.
I am honored.
As you were.
Penif alt detected.
What a ****** troll, Penif doesn't post garbage like you or this |
|
CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
119
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 11:24:00 -
[429] - Quote
Cypermethren wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:Mallikanth wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:... I mean evidence of coordinated wrongdoing. CCP Sreegs, what do you mean by "coordinated "? It gives me the impression that because you need other people to coordinate anything then any evidence of a "lone" botter is not wanted? Surely that can't be right but I can think of no other logical meaning for the way this is phrased. A botter should be reported no matter what or who he's working with. And on a related note, can you give examples as to what classes as Evidence? Player logs definitely show nothing last time I checked. Thanks. I'm REALLY uninterested in interfering with this thread, or its allegations. I have no opinion on them specifically and if I did the opinion would be carried out either in the action or inaction of an administrative response. I don't really expect to get good feedback, but what I DO expect is that I can lay out for you quite clearly that we do not condone malicious behavior and that given proof of that behavior we will act on it. Some of you will say we won't, but I'm saying we will. It's really futile for me to argue with you on the internet about whether something I say is true, as only I can see what's occurring from my perspective. Getting into a war of words isn't what I'm here for. This thread is not about the lone botter. There's a mechanism in place, that we built, for you to handle such. This thread is about allegations of organized corporate misconduct, which then had the allegation that we were somehow implicit in this misconduct attached to it. So... the ONLY reason I even posted in this wonderful thread was to state quite categorically that our detection and action on botting activities is clinical. We're not taking sides. We're not choosing not to act because we're scared that *insert x group of players here* is going to get mad. We're acting on our results which are evidence based. What is evidence you ask? Words on a forum aren't it. If you believe that there is some ACTION which can be examined and responded to is occurring, then I'm happy to hear what you have to say, conduct an analysis and handle things on our end. What's simply NOT going to happen is for someone to paste some text on a forum and for us to run out and ban a bunch of people. That's just crazy speak. If you suspect someone of botting, report them using the tool. If you suspect greater misconduct, email me and if I'm able to prove your allegations they'll be acted upon appropriately. If you believe someone at CCP isn't acting appropriately, myself included, you're ENCOURAGED to report said behavior to IA. If you believe that CCP isn't acting on whomever you think should be acted on because we're somehow profiting from it I can tell you that's some tinfoil hattery. You can then call me a liar and a lot of people's time will be wasted reading it and coming away unfulfilled. We do not believe we benefit from people cheating and when we find such behavior we act on it. We don't have to go run to the CFO every time we catch someone doing something terrible because we lack the courage or desire to deliver a level playing field. tl;dr if you have something you think should be looked at mail it to me. So youv'e just said that you're not going to take action against people which you know damn well are botting/RMT, untill WE THE PLAYERS bring YOU evidance. .
No. YOU just said that. I actually said the opposite.
Some of you however seem to feel, given your protestations of misconduct and insinuations that we're willfully turning a blind eye, that we're missing something.
Here's your way to do something about that... if you know something's going on instead of making a post on the internet enlighten me. Send me the piles of information you clearly have to be making this determination and help me out a bit. I see a lot of posturing and mudslinging but thus far I've seen 0 people actually doing anything more than posturing on a forum.
Either you have evidence to be making your statements or you don't. If you do, the way to get it dealt with if you're really serious and not just making posts for attention which I can't IMAGINE anyone doing on the internet, is to send it to me. As a matter of fact, go ahead and post, but then send your information to me. If you're not doing that I can only assume you're full of poo, because I can't fathom someone actually having a reason to know something's occurring and claiming they want to see an end to it so badly that they don't actually do the one thing that could get it resolved. |
|
Headerman
Quovis Shadow of xXDEATHXx
133
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 11:51:00 -
[430] - Quote
I think i said quite early on that CCP NEEDS some leads to work on, CCP Screegs + the others there would have more than enough to do to start a new project of finding botters from scratch or sifting through piles and piles of logs [img]http://i53.tinypic.com/bebnf8.jpg[/img] |
|
Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
42
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 11:52:00 -
[431] - Quote
Never seen a Dev posting to win a thread .. good to see you take your forum whoring seriously at least :D
But you ought to clarify, through official means (read: blog/wiki entry) what botting is, why it is bad for Eve, how best to identify a bot and why people should even care. Lots of erroneous perceptions out here. Have your pet economist write an expose, he said he was considering an "illegal means" focused blog if I recall so feed him some data. |
pussnheels
Vintage heavy industries
73
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 12:17:00 -
[432] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote:Cypermethren wrote:[quote=CCP Sreegs][quote=Mallikanth][quote=CCP Sreegs]... I mean evidence of coordinated wrongdoing. No. YOU just said that. I actually said the opposite. Some of you however seem to feel, given your protestations of misconduct and insinuations that we're willfully turning a blind eye, that we're missing something. Here's your way to do something about that... if you know something's going on instead of making a post on the internet enlighten me. Send me the piles of information you clearly have to be making this determination and help me out a bit. I see a lot of posturing and mudslinging but thus far I've seen 0 people actually doing anything more than posturing on a forum. Either you have evidence to be making your statements or you don't. If you do, the way to get it dealt with if you're really serious and not just making posts for attention which I can't IMAGINE anyone doing on the internet, is to send it to me. As a matter of fact, go ahead and post, but then send your information to me. If you're not doing that I can only assume you're full of poo, because I can't fathom someone actually having a reason to know something's occurring and claiming they want to see an end to it so badly that they don't actually do the one thing that could get it resolved.
That statement just confirmed all the allegations made against goons and other large nullsec alliance that ccp is turning a blind eye toward botting for RMT purposes , especially when everybody knows who you are
Where there is smoke there is fire and you just added a whole barrel of fuel to the discussion
Goons Delenda Est I do not agree with what you are saying , but i will defend to the death your right to say it...... Voltaire |
Pr1ncess Alia
Perkone Caldari State
26
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 12:39:00 -
[433] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote: Some of you however seem to feel, given your protestations of misconduct and insinuations that we're willfully turning a blind eye, that we're missing something.
Here's your way to do something about that... if you know something's going on instead of making a post on the internet enlighten me. Send me the piles of information you clearly have to be making this determination and help me out a bit. I see a lot of posturing and mudslinging but thus far I've seen 0 people actually doing anything more than posturing on a forum.
Either you have evidence to be making your statements or you don't. If you do, the way to get it dealt with if you're really serious and not just making posts for attention which I can't IMAGINE anyone doing on the internet, is to send it to me. As a matter of fact, go ahead and post, but then send your information to me. If you're not doing that I can only assume you're full of poo, because I can't fathom someone actually having a reason to know something's occurring and claiming they want to see an end to it so badly that they don't actually do the one thing that could get it resolved.
Understand that while there are many out there in a position to provide you information (those within 0.0 organizations who watch it happen) there are many many more of us that have knowledge of the actions with no first hand evidence to provide you.
The first retort to that would be "well you just don't know this is hearsay" and an obvious response that would be (not strawmaning or putting words into your or others mouths)
Fact is, many of us have left 0.0 due to undesireable activites (botting and more), many of us know people we can trust that see these things happen and are indifferent to it. There is also the smoke that leads us to believe there is fire.... the massive amounts of isk you can still buy online... the shear volumes of minerals and other resources that come out of the power blocks. That isn't earned totally by sweat shops or players that just LOVE to farm the legit way. It's done more.... efficiently... than one man per account per ship.
At the end of the day, only CCP (YOU) have the resources and the obligation to obtain this evidence and act on it. I completely agree with you that if people have data/info to share with CCP that can help they should come forward with it, but the onus is on YOU, CCP, not us.
You probably get petitions all the time from people in high sec seeing botting ice miners. If you expect player initiative to bring in the bots in 0.0 (fellow alliance mates ratting each other out) you are either willfully ignorant or just ignorant.
as an aside: While I get what your trying to say, it could be construed by people such as myself that are already on the way out the door to keep walking. Either way, all this said, thank you for at least replying.... no one is perfect and we'd rather you reply with less than perfect responses than read and never comment (make us feel like you aren't there).
Again, I understand what you're trying to say, please reciprocate and understand what I'm trying to say.
It's my personal opinion, as I've said in this thread, that CCP does look the other way as there is little business impact to allowing a certain level of botfarming in the game (and we all know it's rampant in the superblocks as well as elsewhere). However the impact of widespread banning of botting players... that might hit the pocket book.
Am I wrong? Is it a measured acceptance that the higher levels of CCP permit through restricted allocation of resources towards eliminating the botting and RMT issue? I can only speculate. But I have a pretty good nose for these things both in game and RL. In an Eve online where we can barely get attention to FiS.... what are the odds your boss wants to throw resources at stopping what has been par for the course for 90% of eve's life?
And not to crap it up further with a cliche but.... if CCP takes this topic seriously we can only go on what actions we see happening, not what words we hear on the forums. CCP has made advances in the past chasing down the RMT trade however, whether those were scraps of meat to appease the dogs or serious operations with intent on shutting down an aspect of the game that ruins the gameplay for the rest of us... again, I can only speculate. |
Gregor Palter
76
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 12:55:00 -
[434] - Quote
If CCP would take botting and RMT serious they'd have put a big dent in it by now, they haven't. The whole fekking game is full of bots and nonsense like that, it has slipped out of their hands just like very much any other part of EVE.
Excuses are the refuge of the weak. |
Myfanwy Heimdal
Heimdal Freight and Manufacture Inc
2
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 13:06:00 -
[435] - Quote
Apollo-Moor wrote:Mara Tessidar wrote:I missed the part where it said "Don't report bots." Can you bold it for me? ***** plz.. Really? Ya'll whole corp is a fuckin joke.. LOL
Quite. Mara should have said 'embolden'.
|
Kalmanaka
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
8
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 13:11:00 -
[436] - Quote
pussnheels wrote:That statement just confirmed all the allegations made against goons and other large nullsec alliance that ccp is turning a blind eye toward botting for RMT purposes , especially when everybody knows who you are
Where there is smoke there is fire and you just added a whole barrel of fuel to the discussion
Goons Delenda Est
You've got to be pretty damn stupid to get that out of his statements. He just said if you have actual information that can be verified then something will be done. If CCP does nothing it's because you have nothing more to go on than hearsay and an addiction to being angry. |
Zagam
Incompertus INC Fatal Ascension
123
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 13:15:00 -
[437] - Quote
The butthurt is strong in this thread.
CCP Sreegs is right on this one. All 22 pages of this craptastic thread are full of baseless accusations, internet posturing, and senseless ************. I don't see anything except people taking forum posts out of context, reading into words that aren't there, and crying because someone is better at the game than them. Almost all of the people pointing these accusations are either in small alliances that don't hold much sov, or forum alts (of people who have no cajones to post on their main).
tl;dr - this thread is pointless, and a waste of our time. |
Vertisce Soritenshi
SHADOW WARD Tragedy.
52
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 13:17:00 -
[438] - Quote
Zagdul wrote:Cypermethren wrote:Lorren Canada wrote:What many people fail to realize is that alliances like the GSF, TEST and ESG all come from communities outside the game. They are not EvE online communities, but only minor subsets of much larger communities which span many games and many aspects of real life. Our strength comes from these communities, because we are held together by something more than our sov, our moons or our killboard stats. To report a bot, or someone who is in some way breaking the rules of a game played by the community, is placing that game above the greater community as a whole - your priorities are out of line. This weakens the community. I hate botting and rmt, but I would never report an alliance member as that would be putting a game ahead of the community.
In many (but not all) other alliances, the only thing people have in common with each other is they play an internet spaceship game and don't really care if they report each other. They are weak because they are only a collection of people with really nothing in common to hold them together, except maybe their sov. But if they lose this, they are prone to fly apart much as R.A.G.E. or Majesta Empire did. THANKYOU for proving another pont! It's safe to say - if people in GSF, TEST and ESG - care only about THEIR community, and not the EVE community - why should they ever be allowed to become a CSM and influence the direction that the game is going? This , again goes to further prove there is a serious conflict of interest with the CSM panel Because their community takes up quite a large portion of the game and they should be represented in order their game doesn't become unfun? Just a thought here.
Quite a large portion? lol...thats a delusion. You aren't even a quarter of the population of 0.0 which isn't even a quarter of the population of the entire game. Hell I am only guessing on the figures but I know for a fact you aren't a "large portion". |
Anya Shepard
The Scope Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 13:42:00 -
[439] - Quote
edit |
Headerman
Quovis Shadow of xXDEATHXx
135
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 13:43:00 -
[440] - Quote
Zagam wrote:The butthurt is strong in this thread.
CCP Sreegs is right on this one. All 22 pages of this craptastic thread are full of baseless accusations, internet posturing, and senseless ************. I don't see anything except people taking forum posts out of context, reading into words that aren't there, and crying because someone is better at the game than them. Almost all of the people pointing these accusations are either in small alliances that don't hold much sov, or forum alts (of people who have no cajones to post on their main).
tl;dr - this thread is pointless, and a waste of our time.
If you had bothered to read the OP, Mittens states to everyone in goons not to do CCPs work for them, either petitioning CCP to remove bots or taking the law into their own hands.
How many bots of the goons has FA bagged lately? F*** All probably. [img]http://i53.tinypic.com/bebnf8.jpg[/img] |
|
Homo Erectus
Evolution The Initiative.
55
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 13:44:00 -
[441] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:Vile rat wrote:Just stopping by this horrible thread to point out that the report bot function is anonymous to users and doesn't send a little flag to to the ceo or anything ok well later gator. No, it sends the "Player X reported Y as a suspected bot" message to CCP Sreegs who is a Goon.
I'm going to step away from the disgusting suggestion CCP Darius JOHNSON would for some reason show any type of favoritism towards Goonswarm. Because that is just nonsense. I'll bet he has one rule, and that is not to **** other CCP. |
Pr1ncess Alia
Perkone Caldari State
26
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 13:50:00 -
[442] - Quote
Homo Erectus wrote:Mara Rinn wrote:Vile rat wrote:Just stopping by this horrible thread to point out that the report bot function is anonymous to users and doesn't send a little flag to to the ceo or anything ok well later gator. No, it sends the "Player X reported Y as a suspected bot" message to CCP Sreegs who is a Goon. I'm going to step away from the disgusting suggestion CCP Darius JOHNSON would for some reason show any type of favoritism towards Goonswarm. Because that is just nonsense. I'll bet he has one rule, and that is not to **** other CCP.
lol, I'm not up on the who's who of CCP staff.
Now I get why he's all butthurt about the accusations.
This is so much funnier than T20.... it's like if T20 had actually been in charge of Bob (except its completely different, but you know what I'm saying)
wow. ok Darius, how about you run along and quit white knighting your club of friends and let a real CCP staff member post in here? One that *might* put the interests of the players and the game ahead of those of one small faction of players. |
Lorren Canada
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
43
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 14:31:00 -
[443] - Quote
pussnheels wrote:That statement just confirmed all the allegations made against goons and other large nullsec alliance that ccp is turning a blind eye toward botting for RMT purposes , especially when everybody knows who you are
You are literally ********.
|
Jiska Ensa
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 14:37:00 -
[444] - Quote
I thought it would be common knowledge by now...All large alliances turn a blind eye to botting because they know if they don't allow their bot-minded members to do it they'll join an alliance that does, thus giving that alliance more isk then they have.
For an alliance to actively screen their members for botting would be financial suicide.
But aside from a few exceptions, most alliances would be happy if all botting was eliminated. They just don't want it eliminated from just their ranks.
I hate bots. I'd never do it myself and I'll do everything I can to report bots even if my alliance tells me not to. I wish all botters would die in a fire but short of simply giving everyone a trillion isk and seeding all items on the market at 0.01 isk each, I don't see how it will ever be eliminated.
Such is how Eve works. CCP Screegwhatever is correct and the people whining here need to go out and start reporting bots. They're not hard to find (just look for people who auto-reject conversations and don't respond in local and who are online 18 hours a day or more and who populate systems with 10k NPC kills or whatever) |
Andrea Griffin
13
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 14:47:00 -
[445] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote:if you know something's going on instead of making a post on the internet enlighten me. Send me the piles of information you clearly have to be making this determination and help me out a bit. I see a lot of posturing and mudslinging but thus far I've seen 0 people actually doing anything more than posturing on a forum.
Either you have evidence to be making your statements or you don't. If you do, the way to get it dealt with [...] is to send it to me. As a matter of fact, go ahead and post, but then send your information to me. If you're not doing that I can only assume you're full of poo [...] CCP Sreegs, Best Sreegs. And no, I'm not kidding. I hate the people who come onto the forums and make accusations and have no evidence to back it up. As the meme goes, "Pics, or it didn't happen." Kudos to Sreegs for calling people out on it, too.
Sreegs has a hard job and, if anyone has bothered to see his presentations at FanFest (thanks to whomever took the video), you can tell that he takes his job very seriously. This is not a dude you want to mess with. : >
Catching botters is hard. It's always a game of cat and mouse with those guys. Just when you catch onto something and go, "Ah ha! Got you!" the botters will find some new way to make your life miserable. It's just like the antivirus industry. The people writing good malware are really smart. It takes someone just as smart to rip apart their stuff, figure out how it all works, and then figure out how to fix it all.
It's hard enough without people like the OP et al., making life more difficult. It's not you guys who need to repair what has been broken, it's us. CCP Wrangler |
Weaselior
BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation
64
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 14:57:00 -
[446] - Quote
goonswarm is the most anti-botter alliance in the universe, and plans to demonstrate that in the coming weeks
i personally have ganked and reported 20 or so |
Hans Jagerblitzen
Autocannons Anonymous
54
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 14:59:00 -
[447] - Quote
Gregor Palter wrote:If CCP would take botting and RMT serious they'd have put a big dent in it by now, they haven't. The whole fekking game is full of bots and nonsense like that, it has slipped out of their hands just like very much any other part of EVE.
Like I said, I've been playing for two years and I have never seen evidence of any mass botting. I just plain and simple do not believe that it happens on any kind of significant scale. The fact that this is an accusation so commonly pointed towards Goonswarm or other large alliances suggests it has more to do with bigotry and anger at the power they've achieved than it does have anything to do with the truth about botting.
I challenge anyone here who thinks that botting is happening on a large scale to post evidence. Who cares about CCP. Throw something down to convince ME. Teach me how to spot a bot. Cause until anyone here gets off their ass and substantiates these claims - they remain that, mere claims.
I wish everyone here would grow up and stop demanding action about a phantom threat while simultaneously being too lazy to expose such a threat.
This is your classic "if a trees falls in a forest and no one's around, does it make a sound?" quandary. The whiners here either see something going on, and are reporting it, and not getting any response, or perhaps MAYBE BOTTING ISNT HAPPENING ON THE SCALE EVERYONE IS FREAKING OUT ABOUT.
And if you are doing your diligence and reporting known bots, and CCP is supposedly ignoring your reports, report it to the community. Surely there are enough bot haters to form a posse to deal with a problem individual.
But we are 22 pages of nonsense here, and not a single person who has claimed "bots ruin eve" has provided a single piece of factual information to support that baseless claims.
I am prepared to completely retract my statements and acquiesce once someone gets off their lazy butt and proves that they arent merely paranoid and accusatory. But until then, I call bullshite on the "bots destroy eve" claim.
Go have fun with this game, or go play a different game. Or better yet - do what most creative, hardworking players have done when they have beef with someone in the game - take matters into your own hands. The game gives plenty of tools to do that. |
Florestan Bronstein
United Engineering Services
76
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 14:59:00 -
[448] - Quote
Andrea Griffin wrote:It's hard enough without people like the OP et al., making life more difficult. OP says: "GSF supports botting by discouraging alliance members from reporting friendly bots" Sreegs says: "A forum post is not enough."
Care to explain what sort of "pics" the OP should have provided to substantiate his claim? |
Madam Steele
Hedion University Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 15:00:00 -
[449] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:goonswarm is the most anti-botter alliance in the universe, and plans to demonstrate that in the coming weeks
i personally have ganked and reported 20 or so
And by this I assume you mean bots other than Goonswarm bots, correct?
|
Florestan Bronstein
United Engineering Services
76
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 15:00:00 -
[450] - Quote
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:I challenge anyone here who thinks that botting is happening on a large scale to post evidence. Who cares about CCP. Throw something down to convince ME. Teach me how to spot a bot. Cause until anyone here gets off their ass and substantiates these claims - they remain that, mere claims. go to a popular mission system without station, sit at the sun and watch the Ravens warp in, recharge their shield & cap and go back to their mission.
Get familiar with some bot and you will recognize obvious behavior caused by its default settings.
Keep your eyes shut and don't educate yourself about the different bots out there and the problem will be much less obvious. |
|
Weaselior
BUTTECORP INC Goonswarm Federation
64
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 15:02:00 -
[451] - Quote
Madam Steele wrote:Weaselior wrote:goonswarm is the most anti-botter alliance in the universe, and plans to demonstrate that in the coming weeks
i personally have ganked and reported 20 or so And by this I assume you mean bots other than Goonswarm bots, correct?
there are no bots in goonswarm, and if there are they aren't packed 20 at a time into one place and oblivious to their best buddies blowing up one by one so that would be inefficent |
Cydori
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 15:08:00 -
[452] - Quote
Okay, boys, this thread is over. Our transparent attempt to falsely implicate the Goons has been exposed as nothing more than Internet "poo" by the searing logic of CCP Sreegs. It's time for us to man up and admit that botting isn't a major issue for Goons or any other part of EVE Online. We should all be ashamed.
Apology time.
To the Goon membership and your glorious leader, I'm truly sorry I doubted you. You are the epitome of honor and good sportsmanship. Your steadfast example has allowed CCP to open my eyes and from this day forward I shall endeavor to emulate your behavior and play the game the way you do. Thank you for remaining calm and cool when everyone else was reduced to acting like petulant children. Your leadership on this important issue has brought enlightenment to all of us and we are deeply in your debt. |
Hans Jagerblitzen
Autocannons Anonymous
54
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 15:16:00 -
[453] - Quote
Hirana Yoshida wrote: But you ought to clarify, through official means (read: blog/wiki entry) what botting is, why it is bad for Eve, how best to identify a bot and why people should even care. Lots of erroneous perceptions out here. Have your pet economist write an expose, he said he was considering an "illegal means" focused blog if I recall so feed him some data.
Despite disrespectfully calling out someone as a "pet" and the general sarcastic tone, this is probably the best solution to threads like this. There has indeed been a recent blog that describes how to report a bot, but offers nothing of value as to how players can identify a bot.
Sreegs, I think a simple blog can clarifiy a lot of the confusion here. Not that there isn't a million other overdue promised information from developers about various unfinished features, but this issue is clearly divisive amongst the eve playerbase and bad for everyone. You have the ability to help quash some of this by giving players a bit more guidance on what to watch for.
I remain part of the camp that calls bullshit on "bots ruin eve", but ONLY because I haven't seen hard evidence from players or CCP that it actually exists on a large scale, or even if it did how that impacts players at all levels. I've never even seen behaviour that LOOKS like a bot, but admittedly I don't know what to look for exactly. If it doesn't happen on a large scale, than I really dont care. There are a hundred ways to make more isk/hour than any automated system can produce, so personally don't care about going a few slipping through the cracks. But if it actually happens on a large scale, than please, someone convince me and I'll raise my pitchfork too.
And the only reason I'm asking you, Sreegs, is that a) CCP pollux said it would come, so its only fair to players to deliver, and b) apparently the people that are most outraged about this are also the ones least willing to do anything about making the problem better, or even to help fellow players like me understand what exactly is pissing them off so damn much.
|
Enuen Ravenseye
Malevolence. Void Alliance
1
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 15:17:00 -
[454] - Quote
Homo Erectus wrote:I'm going to step away from the disgusting suggestion [any CCP employee] would for some reason show any type of favoritism towards [a particular player faction]. Because that is just nonsense.
Yes, we all know T20 didn't actually happen.
CCP employees are above suspicion because we now have a watchdog group known as the CSM to protect the playerbase from unscrupulous activities by employee types. Such activities will no longer be tolerated.
Yep, feeling better already. |
Hans Jagerblitzen
Autocannons Anonymous
54
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 15:21:00 -
[455] - Quote
Florestan Bronstein wrote:Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:I challenge anyone here who thinks that botting is happening on a large scale to post evidence. Who cares about CCP. Throw something down to convince ME. Teach me how to spot a bot. Cause until anyone here gets off their ass and substantiates these claims - they remain that, mere claims. go to a popular mission system without station, sit at the sun and watch the Ravens warp in, recharge their shield & cap and go back to their mission. Get familiar with some bot and you will recognize obvious behavior caused by its default settings. Keep your eyes shut and don't educate yourself about the different bots out there and the problem will be much less obvious.
Please elaborate - how is a raven warping to the sun evidence of botting?
Serious question, i dont know what you are talking about. How is that proof that there isn't a player causing the warp to the sun?
I'm not keeping my eyes shut. I'd be happy to look out for suspicious activity, its just that people like you expect me to "just know" that there is a crisis because its so "obvious".
It's not obvious. If you have information, share it rather than assuming everyone is as "educated" as you. |
Satav
Latinum Exports
26
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 15:26:00 -
[456] - Quote
Smoking Blunts wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:Apollo-Moor wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:Not jumping into the heated rhetorical nature of this thread I did see some comments that I'd just like to get a statement on the record about. When making determinations regarding bans for botting the alliance, corporation, political beliefs, gender or any other anecdotal information about the offender aren't taken into account. At least not in a way that would be considered a net positive to the group the botter belongs to.
Detections determine the administrative action, not corporation or alliance membership.
That being said, if we feel there's a problem pattern developing we will take action to rectify it. Alliances and corporations should not be encouraging malicious/illegal activity and if we see evidence of this occurring action will be taken. I would heartily encourage alliances and corporations not to condone illegal activities. Blue-On-Blue Violence This is a sensitive GÇô even a touchy GÇô subject, so let me say that while he is, indeed, a keen ratter GÇô a very keen ratter if we are honest GÇô we have one rule in Goonswarm: we donGÇÖt **** other goons. Oh and we donGÇÖt play cop for CCP in their own game by reporting or petitioning goons, either: But if it were the case that he had been ratting just a little too exuberantly for peoplesGÇÖ liking, or if he had offended them by consistently ignoring their conversation requests for a brief window of, say, seventeen or eighteen hours, for instance, then it would be goon-****** to report him or to kill him. This will land you and your corp in trouble as all we know is that someone shot blues. You mean something along the lines of this? No, I mean evidence of coordinated wrongdoing. Just like I said. Feel free to email said evidence to [email protected] well lets face it, if you banned every bot out there now, you would loose a massive amount of accounts. and the bottom line is i doubt you could afford the cash flow hit
Yes, let's condone criminal activity so we can have/keep more money................
|
Vestor
Magma Planetary Investigation
1
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 15:27:00 -
[457] - Quote
Enuen Ravenseye wrote:Homo Erectus wrote:I'm going to step away from the disgusting suggestion [any CCP employee] would for some reason show any type of favoritism towards [a particular player faction]. Because that is just nonsense. Yes, we all know T20 didn't actually happen. CCP employees are above suspicion because we now have a watchdog group known as the CSM to protect the playerbase from unscrupulous activities by employee types. Such activities will no longer be tolerated. Yep, feeling better already. The CSM has not been created to police CCP internal breaches of trust. That is what Internal Affairs is for (and yes that was created as a response to T20. CCP realises that internal trust is needed for players to trust CCP) The CSM's task is to voice player's interest, that's a different task, even if the player's interest may sometimes overlap with CCP's interest. |
Florestan Bronstein
United Engineering Services
76
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 15:32:00 -
[458] - Quote
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
It's not obvious. If you have information, share it rather than assuming everyone is as "educated" as you.
the tl;dr of my post is "educate yourself"
sign up for botting forums, look at the bots they use, learn. |
Aryndel Vyst
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
94
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 15:34:00 -
[459] - Quote
Domo arigato, Mr. Roboto Mata o hima de, Domo arigato, Mr. Roboto Himitsu wo shiri tai,
You're wondering who I am, (Secret secret, I've got a secret) Machine or mannequin, (Secret secret, I've got a secret) With parts made in Japan, (Secret secret, I've got a secret) I am the modern man,
I've got a secret I've been hiding under my skin, My heart is human, my blood is boiling, my brain IBM, So if you see me acting strangely, don't be surprised, I'm just a man who needed someone and somewhere to hide, To keep me alive, just keep me alive, Somewhere to hide to keep me alive,
I'm not a robot without emotions, I'm not what you see, I've come to help you with your problems so we can be free, I'm not a hero, I'm not a savior, forget what you know, I'm just a man who's circumstances went beyond his control, Beyond my control, We all need control, I need control, We all need control, I am the modern man, (Secret secret, I've got a secret) Who hides behind a mask, (Secret secret, I've got a secret) So no one else can see, (Secret secret, I've got a secret) My true identity,
Domo arigato, Mr, Roboto, Domo, Domo, Domo arigato, Mr. Roboto, Domo, Domo, Domo Arigato, Mr. Roboto, Domo Arigato, Mr. Roboto, Domo Arigato, Mr. Roboto, Domo Arigato, Mr. Roboto, (Thank you very much oh Mr. Roboto For doing the jobs that nobody wants to) Domo Arigato, Mr. Roboto, (And thank you very much oh Mr. Roboto, For helping me escape just when I needed to) Domo Arigato, Mr. Roboto, (Thank you thank you thank you) Domo Arigato, Mr. Roboto, (I wanna thank you) Domo Arigato, Mr. Roboto, (Please thank you)
The problem's plain to see, Too much technology, Machines to save our lives, Machines de-humanize,
The time has come at last, (Secret secret, I've got a secret) To throw away this mask, (Secret secret, I've got a secret) Now everyone can see, (Secret secret, I've got a secret) My true identity,
I'm Kilroy! Kilroy! Kilroy! Kilroy... |
The Groundskeeper
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
11
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 15:35:00 -
[460] - Quote
Florestan Bronstein wrote:Andrea Griffin wrote:It's hard enough without people like the OP et al., making life more difficult. OP says: "GSF supports botting by discouraging alliance members from reporting friendly bots" Sreegs says: "A forum post is not enough." Care to explain what sort of "pics" the OP should have provided to substantiate his claim?
Maybe he bothered to read the whole post, instead of just the misquoted bit in the OP which leaves out the parts where it says that ganking bots is well-justified and tells goons to report botters to alliance leadership? But that didn't help his argument.
See the whole post for yourself, here: http://www.endie.net/wordpress/?p=114 Yeah I'm fairly shameless.
It's also quite ironic that this thread came up while we were driving the OP's alliance out of their space and when the directorate of Goonswarm had spent almost two weeks setting up the largest anti-bot operation ever in Eve. |
|
Zagam
Incompertus INC Fatal Ascension
128
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 15:36:00 -
[461] - Quote
Headerman wrote:Zagam wrote:The butthurt is strong in this thread.
CCP Sreegs is right on this one. All 22 pages of this craptastic thread are full of baseless accusations, internet posturing, and senseless ************. I don't see anything except people taking forum posts out of context, reading into words that aren't there, and crying because someone is better at the game than them. Almost all of the people pointing these accusations are either in small alliances that don't hold much sov, or forum alts (of people who have no cajones to post on their main).
tl;dr - this thread is pointless, and a waste of our time. If you had bothered to read the OP, Mittens states to everyone in goons not to do CCPs work for them, either petitioning CCP to remove bots or taking the law into their own hands. How many bots of the goons has FA bagged lately? F*** All probably.
Ok, I'll bite.
OP: [quote=The Apostle]We all know it goes on. We all ***** and complain and moan about it. But THIS drew my ire.
GoonSwarm Federation Alliance Update GÇô September 28th
Quote:Blue-On-Blue Violence
This is a sensitive GÇô even a touchy GÇô subject, so let me say that while he is, indeed, a keen ratter GÇô a very keen ratter if we are honest GÇô we have one rule in Goonswarm: we donGÇÖt **** other goons. Oh and we donGÇÖt play cop for CCP in their own game by reporting or petitioning goons, either:
But if it were the case that he had been ratting just a little too exuberantly for peoplesGÇÖ liking, or if he had offended them by consistently ignoring their conversation requests for a brief window of, say, seventeen or eighteen hours, for instance, then it would be goon-****** to report him or to kill him. This will land you and your corp in trouble as all we know is that someone shot blues.
Here is what this says. Mittens doesn't want goons throwing other goons under the bus. Taking the law into your own hands isn't the answer either. What isn't said is that concerns should be brought forward in the chain of command. As in talk to your CEO. Talk to someone of authority in the alliance. Don't just fly off the handle and shoot someone.
Its that simple. Its not condoning botting. Its not telling people to ignore botters. Its Mittens saying that throwing your own people under the bus is wrong, and more often than not, your accusations are misplaced. Throwing your own people under the bus is the fastest way to undermine trust in any group.
Headerman, you usually make decent posts, but in this case, you are being a lemming and taking stuff out of context, like much of the other 22 pages of this thread.
|
Shai 'Hulud
Guiding Hand Social Club Dystopia Alliance
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 15:41:00 -
[462] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote:No. YOU just said that. I actually said the opposite.
Some of you however seem to feel, given your protestations of misconduct and insinuations that we're willfully turning a blind eye, that we're missing something.
Here's your way to do something about that... if you know something's going on instead of making a post on the internet enlighten me. Send me the piles of information you clearly have to be making this determination and help me out a bit. I see a lot of posturing and mudslinging but thus far I've seen 0 people actually doing anything more than posturing on a forum.
Either you have evidence to be making your statements or you don't. If you do, the way to get it dealt with if you're really serious and not just making posts for attention which I can't IMAGINE anyone doing on the internet, is to send it to me. As a matter of fact, go ahead and post, but then send your information to me. If you're not doing that I can only assume you're full of poo, because I can't fathom someone actually having a reason to know something's occurring and claiming they want to see an end to it so badly that they don't actually do the one thing that could get it resolved. With all due respect, you seem a bit ignorant on the mechanics of detecting a bot. As players, our ability to gather hard evidence on these activities is very limited. We do not have access to the piles of information that you do. You are asking us for more than we can give you. If you are expecting us to provide you with all the data needed to confirm a given player account is indeed botting, then it is no surprise that the botting issue has not been addressed in a meaningful way. Most often, suspicion is all we have.
If botting is going to be stopped, it will not originate from the player base. More and more people are botting because there is a well founded perception that you are not doing anything to actively hunt down these rule breakers. And your attacks on our concerns in this thread do not help that perception. All you had to do was say "we will look into this." Sorry to have bothered you with suspicions of sanctioned rule breaking in your game
Also, I'm amazed you seem to think that the player base has ANY confidence in you to enforce the rules of your game fairly. You sir, are the one that is full of poo. |
SmashTech
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
10
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 15:42:00 -
[463] - Quote
Shai 'Hulud wrote:With all due respect, you seem a bit ignorant on the mechanics of detecting a bot. .... Also, I'm amazed you seem to think that the player base has ANY confidence in you to enforce the rules of your game fairly. You sir, are the one that is full of poo.
:get out: |
Hans Jagerblitzen
Autocannons Anonymous
54
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 15:43:00 -
[464] - Quote
Florestan Bronstein wrote:Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
It's not obvious. If you have information, share it rather than assuming everyone is as "educated" as you.
the tl;dr of my post is "educate yourself" sign up for botting forums, look at the bots they use, learn. edit: oh and detecting bots is always a question of likelihood - unless you have full access to someone's PC you will never be able to "prove" that they are running a bot. But I think that is obvious and you are just trolling...
Botting forums? Please link.
All you had to do was answer my question - "Ravens warp to the sun because it does ________ and this _________ is evidence of a bot automating __________."
Your "google it" answer is only a further demonstration that the people the most angry about bots are the ones who are the laziest about helping to solve the problem.
You had a prime opportunity to help a fellow player out with a statement that could have taken you a sentence or two, instead you gave me a meaningless response.
I'd still love to know about Ravens, suns, and shield recharging. I had no idea eve ships worked like the Destiny from Stargate Universe. And yes, I googled it already.
Edit: No, I'm not trolling, I'm asking a genuine question. |
BrianBadonde
Thunderwaffles Goonswarm Federation
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 15:44:00 -
[465] - Quote
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFM-PvXWcqo
that is all
e: I'm shepard |
Zagam
Incompertus INC Fatal Ascension
128
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 15:44:00 -
[466] - Quote
For those too lazy to read the whole update: (bold is mine)
"Blue-On-Blue Violence
One of our illustrious members (letGÇÖs call him GÇ£IbertizzleGÇ¥) keeps losing Tengus to Russians and French people. This is a sensitive GÇô even a touchy GÇô subject, so let me say that while he is, indeed, a keen ratter GÇô a very keen ratter if we are honest GÇô we have one rule in Goonswarm: we donGÇÖt **** other goons. Oh and we donGÇÖt play cop for CCP in their own game by reporting or petitioning goons, either: thatGÇÖs Darius JohnsonGÇÖs job. So two rules. And thereGÇÖs the one about how nobody mentions the MittaniGÇÖs occasional chin tuft; and the localised No Digis or DBRBs rules. I could go on. Ok, on reflection we live in a hidebound and overly legislated nanny state. But we definitely donGÇÖt **** goons. Now I know that GÇ£IbertizzleGÇ¥ has probably just been insulting people constantly in local and challenging them to 1 v 7s at the sun. Which is fine: honour demanded that he repeatedly die for his offences.
But if it were the case that he had been ratting just a little too exuberantly for peoplesGÇÖ liking, or if he had offended them by consistently ignoring their conversation requests for a brief window of, say, seventeen or eighteen hours, for instance, then it would be goon-******* to report him or to kill him. This will land you and your corp in trouble as all we know is that someone shot blues. And by allowing one, well-justified blue-shooting case to go unpunished we basically open the portal to a hellish other-dimension of horror and chaos which ends with GÇ£hilariouslyGÇ¥ wrecked amok freighters on the VFK undock. Which sounds good but involves a lot of paperwork.
The correct approach is to speak to your CEO, who will submit form 240a together with the mandatory handling fee of 150 million ISK to the overworked diplomacy team, who will curse me loudly for putting that in there then go about finding a solution. Trust me: they have his number on speed-dial by now." |
Zagdul
Clan Shadow Wolf Fatal Ascension
32
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 15:46:00 -
[467] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:Zagdul wrote:Headerman wrote:Zagdul wrote:Can someone point me to the part where anyone in Goons said not to report bots? Right here, on the OP: Quote:we have one rule in Goonswarm: we donGÇÖt **** other goons. Oh and we donGÇÖt play cop for CCP in their own game by reporting or petitioning goons I thought that was pretty plain as day, no? The bandwagoning from Shadow of xXDeathXx is pretty damn ironic. just sayn' The words you're not saying are the loudest ones. Shame, Zagdul. I had great respect for Fatal Ascension and I wish I could have spent more time with you guys. For you to condone botting like this leaves an awful after taste on my memories. Where have I condoned botting?
Don't twist my words. We regularly remove entire corporations who we've found violating the EULA.
It's not Rocket Surgery |
BrianBadonde
Thunderwaffles Goonswarm Federation
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 15:52:00 -
[468] - Quote
mkint wrote:Weren't you defending Goon botting a few days ago? I made the claim that it's logical to assume that MIttens finances his life style not from being a retired lawyer (he's like how old? 15?) but from his RMT empire. And the assumption follows, that since in the past year CCP has made arbitrary game design decisions that actively reduce their competition/increase Goons' RMT profits, that a few key devs are in the pocket of the Goons.
edit: and unless Sreegs is actively cheating for his old buddies, reporting botters is anonymous. And if Sreegs is actively cheating and you get banned for your anonymous report, the rest of EVE needs to know.
hi dumb guy gsf publishes public audit reports very regularly hth |
Hans Jagerblitzen
Autocannons Anonymous
54
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 15:53:00 -
[469] - Quote
Shai 'Hulud wrote: With all due respect, you seem a bit ignorant on the mechanics of detecting a bot.
So help the community out - post your own blurb to warn people what to look for. If you lack faith in Sreegs, help us help you.
I've been waiting for someone to provide a link to a guide, or answer my question, or anything of actual value here. We can't police bots if we don't know what precise behaviours demonstrate (even the likelihood) of a bot being used.
CCP promised a blog, hasn't come yet.
But you dont have to wait for them. You could do everyone a favor and post that information right here, it would go a long way towards assisting your fellow players (which I'm assuming you show more respect than CCP) to assist you in your anti-bot campaign.
If people are unwilling to do even that simple favor, I'm sorry, I just can't care enough either about the anti-bot crusade. I'm happy to keep playing the same game that has given me much fun over the last two years, blissfully unaware I was playing a broken piece of crap ruined by bots I didn't even know were ruining what I mistakenly thought was a fun time. :-P
|
Zagam
Incompertus INC Fatal Ascension
130
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 15:57:00 -
[470] - Quote
Zagdul wrote:Mara Rinn wrote:Zagdul wrote: The bandwagoning from Shadow of xXDeathXx is pretty damn ironic.
just sayn'
The words you're not saying are the loudest ones. Shame, Zagdul. I had great respect for Fatal Ascension and I wish I could have spent more time with you guys. For you to condone botting like this leaves an awful after taste on my memories. Where have I condoned botting? Don't twist my words. We regularly remove entire corporations who we've found violating the EULA. Not to mention that we've got entire crews who focus on anti-bot techniques and are EXTREMELY effective. http://www.evenews24.com/2011/09/14/the-men-who-stare-at-bots-meet-fatal-ascension-very-own-bot-hunting-brigade/ Exactly. I've been in FA for 3 weeks, and in the first couple of days, I saw no less than 3 reminders that botting is bad, and botting will get you booted and killed in-game.
Its not tolerated in FA, simple as that. |
|
Zagdul
Clan Shadow Wolf Fatal Ascension
32
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 16:04:00 -
[471] - Quote
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:Shai 'Hulud wrote: With all due respect, you seem a bit ignorant on the mechanics of detecting a bot.
So help the community out - post your own blurb to warn people what to look for. If you lack faith in Sreegs, help us help you. I've been waiting for someone to provide a link to a guide, or answer my question, or anything of actual value here. We can't police bots if we don't know what precise behaviours demonstrate (even the likelihood) of a bot being used. CCP promised a blog, hasn't come yet. But you dont have to wait for them. You could do everyone a favor and post that information right here, it would go a long way towards assisting your fellow players (which I'm assuming you show more respect than CCP) to assist you in your anti-bot campaign. If people are unwilling to do even that simple favor, I'm sorry, I just can't care enough either about the anti-bot crusade. I'm happy to keep playing the same game that has given me much fun over the last two years, blissfully unaware I was playing a broken piece of crap ruined by bots I didn't even know were ruining what I mistakenly thought was a fun time. :-P CCP has said countless times that they cannot and will not release a Blog on how to detect bots.
Sreggs can respond himself if he'd like to cover why CCP will not, but basically, if they release their secrets on how they detect it, it's intel for the bot writers to make smarter bots.
Botting patterns are pretty easy to detect from a player perspective. And even if they're not a bot, where my players hunt, they're all hostile to us anyway so a kill is a kill.
It's not Rocket Surgery |
Richard Hammond II
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
56
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 16:05:00 -
[472] - Quote
Mallikanth wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:Mara Tessidar wrote:Also, Mittens doesn't represent you to CCP. He represents Goons.Which means Goons are controlling your game. Just thought I'd remind you of that. 1: For some reason I like Mittens. 2: Jokes aside, statements like that will ensure that he won't be re-elected. For some reason I too agree with point one here. If he still has the energy and will I wouldn't mind him being re-elected in any capacity so long as he continues to keep CCP on their toes. Believe it or not I'm not a Goon alt! and nether do I have a brown tongue
what will get him re-elected: same things that GOT him elected; biggest single playerbase backing and the general pubic that know his name going "well, he'll either kill the game for fix it" - yeah I heard that countless times as to why ppl voted for him the first time. They hired actual clothing designers for WiS clothes "no wonder the monocle cost $80, they had to pay royalties" Screw "FiS" its called EVE CCP |
Florestan Bronstein
United Engineering Services
77
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 16:05:00 -
[473] - Quote
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
But you dont have to wait for them. You could do everyone a favor and post that information right here, it would go a long way towards assisting your fellow players (which I'm assuming you show more respect than CCP) to assist you in your anti-bot campaign.
instead of posting huge walls of text you could just look up the old threadnaught on the botting problem - in there someone linked a website that collected intelligence on suspected bots (before the "report bot" feature was available in the client) and that also had a pretty extensive list of behavior that is typical for bots (i.e. what to check for before submitting a character name to their database). |
Zagdul
Clan Shadow Wolf Fatal Ascension
32
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 16:06:00 -
[474] - Quote
Oh, and for any moron in this thread who doesn't like GSF's policies, I'm sure they wouldn't mind you doing some police work for them.
Happy Hunting.
It's not Rocket Surgery |
Andy Landen
Cryptonym Sleepers
2
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 16:09:00 -
[475] - Quote
You know, this whole issue would be so much easier and more enjoyable if botting was allowed. Then we could all enjoy it as simply another "game mechanic." I say, make it available to everyone, and then the outsiders would not be so jealous of those wielding the power. While we are at it, allow players to see whether an account is acting as a bot or under direct control from a person, afk or active. Trust the economy. It will adjust naturally, as it needs to and as it always has, and everyone will benefit from it.
Free the botters! Everyone share in the botting. |
Richard Hammond II
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
56
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 16:09:00 -
[476] - Quote
Florestan Bronstein wrote:Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
But you dont have to wait for them. You could do everyone a favor and post that information right here, it would go a long way towards assisting your fellow players (which I'm assuming you show more respect than CCP) to assist you in your anti-bot campaign.
instead of posting huge walls of text you could just look up the old threadnaught on the botting problem - in there someone linked a website that collected intelligence on suspected bots (before the "report bot" feature was available in the client). That site also had a pretty extensive list of typical bot behavior (i.e. what signs to check for before submitting a character name to their database). but you won't because you are lazy and believe people would spend more than 5 minutes trying to convince you... not realizing that your opinion doesn't matter to anyone other than yourself.
Here Ill help
Andy Landen wrote: You know, this whole issue would be so much easier and more enjoyable if botting was allowed. Then we could all enjoy it as simply another "game mechanic." I say, make it available to everyone, and then the outsiders would not be so jealous of those wielding the power. While we are at it, allow players to see whether an account is acting as a bot or under direct control from a person, afk or active. Trust the economy. It will adjust naturally, as it needs to and as it always has, and everyone will benefit from it.
Free the botters! Everyone share in the botting.
In before chicken little that would destroy the economy
---then it should be destroyed now this is already basically the case AS IS in 0.0 They hired actual clothing designers for WiS clothes "no wonder the monocle cost $80, they had to pay royalties" Screw "FiS" its called EVE CCP |
Shai 'Hulud
Guiding Hand Social Club Dystopia Alliance
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 16:11:00 -
[477] - Quote
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:Shai 'Hulud wrote: With all due respect, you seem a bit ignorant on the mechanics of detecting a bot.
So help the community out - post your own blurb to warn people what to look for. If you lack faith in Sreegs, help us help you. Did you read the rest of my post?
Not only is it not our job to actively fight rule breaking, it's largely beyond our capability. No one has given you a link on how to detect bots, because as a player you can't. We cannot tell if key presses are being sent WHILE a player is seemingly away from the keyboard, etc. Of course we should report suspected cases of rule breaking, but it's obvious at this point that such is not sufficient to put anything more than a scratch on the botting/RMT problems in this game.
Scripts should be running to detect suspicious behavior. Each bot script will leave very identifiable patterns in the data. If these patterns are looked for by scripts, then you essentially make them recode their bots so often that it ceases to be profitable. If we can tell a given player is probably a bot, then such can be done much more easily by CCP. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
79
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 16:21:00 -
[478] - Quote
The EULA doesn't protect you from retaliation if you petition someone. You can be kicked from an alliance for any reason under the sun. They can reset any ally that recruits you, they can hunt you down until the servers go dark if they're so inclined.
Go beat your chest somewhere else. |
Falin Whalen
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
17
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 16:24:00 -
[479] - Quote
Quote:And by allowing one, well-justified blue-shooting case to go unpunished we basically open the portal to a hellish other-dimension of horror and chaos which ends with GÇ£hilariouslyGÇ¥ wrecked amok freighters on the VFK undock. Which sounds good but involves a lot of paperwork.
The correct approach is to speak to your CEO, who will submit form 240a together with the mandatory handling fee of 150 million ISK to the overworked diplomacy team, who will curse me loudly for putting that in there then go about finding a solution. Trust me: they have his number on speed-dial by now."
Nobody reads that part. Here let me make it simpler for you.
Quote:one, well-justified blue-shooting case
And for the dense among you
Quote:well-justified...shooting
I guess we really condone botting.
|
Mendolus
Aurelius Federation
50
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 16:48:00 -
[480] - Quote
You fear mongering anti-bot guys should all make an alliance called Bot Crusaders and go around wrecking anyone that doesn't pass some vague list of requirements for proof that they are not a bot.
Call if the New McCarthyism, anyone who does not conform to your ridiculous list of requirements, is to be considered a dirty nefarious bot lover, and be expelled from the game immediately with extreme prejudice.
I'm just as much anti-botting as the next guy, having a relatively long history with online games (since the mid 90s), I have seen too many games go down in flames from exploitation and whatnot, to NOT be vehemently anti-botting, BUT... neither am I about to start a witch hunt or become the McCarthy of EVE, I mean ffs people, think it through a bit for once. ...clearly the Ishukone Watch Scorpion is the fifth horseman of the Apocalypse, i.e. the Brown Rider, otherwise known as Poopie. |
|
Apollo-Moor
xHELLonEARTHx Rookie Empire
16
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 16:54:00 -
[481] - Quote
Mendolus wrote:You fear mongering anti-bot guys should all make an alliance called Bot Crusaders and go around wrecking anyone that doesn't pass some vague list of requirements for proof that they are not a bot.
Call if the New McCarthyism, anyone who does not conform to your ridiculous list of requirements, is to be considered a dirty nefarious bot lover, and be expelled from the game immediately with extreme prejudice.
I'm just as much anti-botting as the next guy, having a relatively long history with online games (since the mid 90s), I have seen too many games go down in flames from exploitation and whatnot, to NOT be vehemently anti-botting, BUT... neither am I about to start a witch hunt or become the McCarthy of EVE, I mean ffs people, think it through a bit for once.
I'm getting the feeling that people tried the "nice" route on extinguishing bots. After throwing all their pillows at the Botters and CCP all people have left are fire and pitchforks..
Working as intended.. |
Mendolus
Aurelius Federation
50
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 17:00:00 -
[482] - Quote
Apollo-Moor wrote: I'm getting the feeling that people tried the "nice" route on extinguishing bots. After throwing all their pillows at the Botters and CCP all people have left are fire and pitchforks..
Working as intended..
Just because the Roman Senate was corrupt and almost completely ineffectual towards the end of the Republic does not mean anyone with any sense would have wished the Dark Ages to be unleashed on the world for hundreds of years once the Republic fell.
Be careful about tearing down the entire building simply because progress is at a standstill, you may find something far worse waiting for you on the other side. ...clearly the Ishukone Watch Scorpion is the fifth horseman of the Apocalypse, i.e. the Brown Rider, otherwise known as Poopie. |
Hans Jagerblitzen
Autocannons Anonymous
55
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 17:11:00 -
[483] - Quote
Shai 'Hulud wrote: Not only is it not our job to actively fight rule breaking, it's largely beyond our capability. No one has given you a link on how to detect bots, because as a player you can't. We cannot tell if key presses are being sent WHILE a player is seemingly away from the keyboard, etc. Of course we should report suspected cases of rule breaking, but it's obvious at this point that such is not sufficient to put anything more than a scratch on the botting/RMT problems in this game.
Scripts should be running to detect suspicious behavior. Each bot script will leave very identifiable patterns in the data. If these patterns are looked for by scripts, then you essentially make them recode their bots so often that it ceases to be profitable. If we can tell a given player is probably a bot, then such can be done much more easily by CCP.
If we can't detect bots for certain, and have no tools or means to verify the difference between a player grinding and a machine grinding, and CCP is the only one with that power, how will we know that they have actually succeeded in clamping down on bots?
What is to stop these threads from persisting even if CCP says - "We have take the time to code bots to fight the bots. Your suspicious nullsec ratters / higsec miners have been investigated, and are found to be simply unemployed players who grind most of the day because they have no real jobs. All illegal activity though, is being identified and squashed, our anti-bot bots are responding and adapting to coding changes as they are presented, everything is working fine." Everyone's still going to call bullshit.
Demanding that CCP works on the problem from the coding angle does not address the main problem driving this thread - people believing pretty much whatever the hell they want about botting, without being satifsfied by promises coming from people they don't trust to begin with.
Quote:edit: I did consider taking you seriously and explain the whole "warping to the sun" thing. I would link you a website with the relevant code of a popular mission bot and you would answer "oh no, I don't know anything about programming you'll have to explain!" before even looking at it (after all all variable & method names are highly descriptive so the code is basically plain English...) then I would write some wall of text.......*writes wall of text*
Thank you, and no, I don't need to see the code. You (despite being a pompous ass) answered my question quite nicely, there just isn't a need to be nasty about it.
I don't really care if you care about my opinion or not, at least now I know (1) way that bots operate. That wasn't so hard, was it? I appreciate your time and effort even if you dont think it was worth giving to an ignorant cretin like myself.
I guess what I don't understand still - is that even if Bayesian filtering can be used to identify patterns in ratting behavior, or scripts can be used to identify offenders like Shai-hulud said, how would we as players know they are working? Would you believe CCP if they said they were? What is the evidence needed from CCP to satiate player doubt?
Most modern, progressive, justice systems maintain "innocence until proven guilty". At least in the United States, while imperfect in execution (pardon the pun), the moral belief at least is that it is better to let a few criminal go unpunished, rather than convict innocents.
Why is it that in Eve, suspicious behavior is supposed to be acted upon with severe action, and we do not give players the same benefit of the doubt that we do to accused law-breakers out of game? I don't mean this to spark a political discussion, I guess I'm just struggling with what it will take to make the "bots are ruining eve and ccp ignores the issue" crowd satisfied that CCP is doing their job correctly. Is banning all CNR's that warp to suns when their shields fail a fair solution? If I go out in a Navy Raven and rat, and someone reports me, CCP investigates and sees evidence I am a real player and does not ban me, will the reporting player be willing accept that outcome as reasonable?
This just seems like something that can never be resolved - players can't prove that bots are bots, CCP can't prove that they know that bots are bots and are squashing bots, players dont trust CCP regardless of what CCP says. What is the endgame here?
|
Homo Erectus
Evolution The Initiative.
55
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 17:12:00 -
[484] - Quote
Andrea Griffin wrote:Catching botters is hard. It's always a game of cat and mouse with those guys. Just when you catch onto something and go, "Ah ha! Got you!" the botters will find some new way to make your life miserable. It's just like the antivirus industry. The people writing good malware are really smart. It takes someone just as smart to rip apart their stuff, figure out how it all works, and then figure out how to fix it all.
the above is 100% correct and I was 100% incorrect about this whole botting thing would stop if CCP prioritized it. I spoke with someone last evening who has a unique perspective on the situation and here is some of the chatter:
<@frst> in your opinion <@frst> is it just not possible to stop the bots <@frst> i mean <%Entity> you cannot stop the bots. as long as there is an incentive to automate things, people will automate it. Diablo3 beta already had bots in development the day it went friends&family beta. <%Entity> you can get better at detecting patterns and stuff, but ultimately, botters always win <%Entity> all one can do is raise the bar <@frst> well <@frst> would you say the best course of action is basically <@frst> as is? <%Entity> ? <%Entity> as in take them for granted? <@frst> no i mean <@frst> do you think the "reporting bots" thing they have going <@frst> is as good as it gets? <%Entity> I don't think CCP has the technical expertise to implement a mechanism like the Warden for WoW, but even that is not without its flaws. Report feature is a good one because humans are generally better at picking out suspicious behaviour <%Entity> even if it means investigating a lot of false positives <%Entity> so yeah for the time being it's probably as good as it gets. <%Entity> you can throw heuristic approaches at it, like, mine data for patterns. undock, warp, dock every 5 minutes over 12 hours would be a dead giveaway (but no guarantee) etc. <%Entity> it's an ongoing arms race <%Entity> and the real problem is <%Entity> - bots are profitable <%Entity> - bots are a hell of a lot of fun to make, for a programmer <%Entity> so even barring profitability, people will still do it just for the sake of the challenge
All this other crap in thread seems to really be just that, crap. Even my crap is crap.
In the end it would just be really nice if the largest playerbase in the game, which included a couple CSMs didn't have the stand point of "we're not CCP's police" and "goons don't **** goons" when dealing with the botting issue. This seems to actually be one of those, if we want to help fix the situation, we do have to do something about it. |
Florestan Bronstein
United Engineering Services
77
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 17:19:00 -
[485] - Quote
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:nicer than expected that's the site I was referring to: http://www.reportbots.com/university/ |
Hans Jagerblitzen
Autocannons Anonymous
55
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 17:20:00 -
[486] - Quote
Mendolus wrote:You fear mongering anti-bot guys should all make an alliance called Bot Crusaders and go around wrecking anyone that doesn't pass some vague list of requirements for proof that they are not a bot.
Call if the New McCarthyism, anyone who does not conform to your ridiculous list of requirements, is to be considered a dirty nefarious bot lover, and be expelled from the game immediately with extreme prejudice.
I'm just as much anti-botting as the next guy, having a relatively long history with online games (since the mid 90s), I have seen too many games go down in flames from exploitation and whatnot, to NOT be vehemently anti-botting, BUT... neither am I about to start a witch hunt or become the McCarthy of EVE, I mean ffs people, think it through a bit for once.
Done, and done.
This is probably the best solution - just play the game and take thing into your own hands, waiting for CCP seems pointless.
This is just my personal take, but Eve is a great game because the things that players create for themselves in terms of social organization and gameplay, which usually surpass the tools CCP gives us themselves to have fun with.
Whining and begging for more action on CCP's part when players can help themselves just seems to go against what Eve is about in the first place.
And you know what? I dont really care if PLAYERS go around killing innocents cause they look like bots. That is all fine and dandy, anyone ratting should know how to defend themselves against hostiles if they know how to play the game.
I do however, have huge reservations about CCP banning players based on suspicion alone.
|
Mendolus
Aurelius Federation
51
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 17:21:00 -
[487] - Quote
Thank you H.E., it took a lot of courage to come on here and explain that you have learned a lot yourself through the course of this and other discussions.
Your point is exactly correct, it takes ALL OF US to fix or stamp down the proliferation of bots in EVE Online.
It esp. takes us finding more legitimate ways to discourage the use of RMT services to begin with, which would go a lot farther than any report button or developer typing away at all hours of the night trying to keep up with the next wave of bot routines.
Again thank for the candid response, you have earned the respect here of anyone else who is also willing to compromise, or come to terms with having been educated further on a situation they made not have had a full understanding of prior. ...clearly the Ishukone Watch Scorpion is the fifth horseman of the Apocalypse, i.e. the Brown Rider, otherwise known as Poopie. |
Mendolus
Aurelius Federation
51
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 17:23:00 -
[488] - Quote
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:I do however, have huge reservations about CCP banning players based on suspicion alone.
Yes, that was more of what I was getting at with that post, a lot of the anti-bot guys in this thread seem to think we should just start banning accounts willy nilly on suspicions alone... whether they actually say, think, or would condone that does not mean their words, sentiments, and path they lay out for us would not lead there, eventually.
The road to hell, and whatnot.
...clearly the Ishukone Watch Scorpion is the fifth horseman of the Apocalypse, i.e. the Brown Rider, otherwise known as Poopie. |
Hans Jagerblitzen
Autocannons Anonymous
55
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 17:24:00 -
[489] - Quote
Florestan Bronstein wrote:
Awesome!! This is very helpful, much appreciated. I will certainly review this, and keep an eye out from now on and see if I can observe this stuff happening on the scale it is being reported to happen.
I never claimed to have absolute knowledge on the issue, its why I'm asking questions, sharing opinions, and taking the time to write my "walls o text". All I can do is keep an open mind, and encourage other people to have an open mind as well, and not just to jump to the conclusion we are all being ****** over by a CCP/GSF conspiracy. |
Brooson
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
32
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 17:25:00 -
[490] - Quote
I wounder how many people here have bots running while they sh*t up the forums... |
|
Brooson
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
32
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 17:25:00 -
[491] - Quote
Cuse that is exactly what you are doing, sh*ting up forums |
Brooson
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
32
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 17:26:00 -
[492] - Quote
just like my own posting |
Brooson
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
32
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 17:26:00 -
[493] - Quote
01000001 01110000 01101111 01110011 01110100 01101100 01100101 00100000 01101001 01110011 00100000 01100001 00100000 01100111 01101111 01101111 01101110 00101101 01100001 01101100 01110100 00100000 01100001 01101110 01100100 00100000 01110100 01101000 01101001 01110011 00100000 01101001 01110011 00100000 01100001 00100000 01110100 01110010 01101111 01101100 01101100 00100000 01110100 01101000 01110010 01100101 01100001 01100100 00101110 |
Brooson
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
32
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 17:26:00 -
[494] - Quote
:getout: |
Richard Hammond II
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
56
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 17:28:00 -
[495] - Quote
Mendolus wrote:You fear mongering anti-bot guys should all make an alliance called Bot Crusaders and go around wrecking anyone that doesn't pass some vague list of requirements for proof that they are not a bot.
Call if the New McCarthyism, anyone who does not conform to your ridiculous list of requirements, is to be considered a dirty nefarious bot lover, and be expelled from the game immediately with extreme prejudice.
I'm just as much anti-botting as the next guy, having a relatively long history with online games (since the mid 90s), I have seen too many games go down in flames from exploitation and whatnot, to NOT be vehemently anti-botting, BUT... neither am I about to start a witch hunt or become the McCarthy of EVE, I mean ffs people, think it through a bit for once.
lol its the professional apologist... once pro RMT now pro botting... love the anti-botter hate, then the "im as much anti bot as anyone" lol pick one dude an stick with it. Stop trying to play both sides against the middle They hired actual clothing designers for WiS clothes "no wonder the monocle cost $80, they had to pay royalties" Screw "FiS" its called EVE CCP |
Mendolus
Aurelius Federation
51
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 17:38:00 -
[496] - Quote
Richard Hammond II wrote: lol its the professional apologist... once pro RMT now pro botting... love the anti-botter hate, then the "im as much anti bot as anyone" lol pick one dude an stick with it. Stop trying to play both sides against the middle
You were probably in diapers when I was dealing with god moders, auto killers, teleporters, ear collectors, and etc. in the original Diablo. It got silly enough at one point that people started throwing around terms like PKK, for player killer killer, those who hacked to kill hackers so the rest of us could enjoy the game still with a public server to meet new people and recruit for guilds. I was the PKK for my guild towards the end because it was impossible to play a public server anymore without someone to drive out the trainers. You will know when EVE is getting truly bad when people start hacking to combat the bot problem itself and rationalizing it as effective means to eradicate exploitation.
Hint: We're not there yet. Tip: When we get there, just unsubscribe, trust me.
TDLR
Get out. ...clearly the Ishukone Watch Scorpion is the fifth horseman of the Apocalypse, i.e. the Brown Rider, otherwise known as Poopie. |
Brooson
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
35
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 17:42:00 -
[497] - Quote
This applies to everyone in this thread. |
Richard Hammond II
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
56
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 17:45:00 -
[498] - Quote
Brooson wrote:This applies to everyone in this thread.
Dont you mean everyone in the game?
Glad I took my friends' advice an made Mendolus a red bar that says "view post" if that quote was his reply lol I like his argument style though, "MT isnt bad but Im against it" just like the stance here lol dud youre funny. Almost sad all I see is the red bar. Might reconsider that.. They hired actual clothing designers for WiS clothes "no wonder the monocle cost $80, they had to pay royalties" Screw "FiS" its called EVE CCP |
Brooson
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
35
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 17:48:00 -
[499] - Quote
Richard Hammond II wrote:Brooson wrote:This applies to everyone in this thread. Dont you mean everyone in the game? Glad I took my friends' advice an made Mendolus a red bar that says "view post" if that quote was his reply lol I like his argument style though, "MT isnt bad but Im against it" just like the stance here lol dud youre funny. Almost sad all I see is the red bar. Might reconsider that..
Stop posting, really this thread is terrible. I have seen more coordinated arguments and less circular thinking in third grade classrooms.
which I frequent rather often.
Being a teacher.
I teach children, fear me. |
Mendolus
Aurelius Federation
51
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 17:51:00 -
[500] - Quote
Richard Hammond II wrote: Dont you mean everyone in the game?
Glad I took my friends' advice an made Mendolus a red bar that says "view post" if that quote was his reply lol I like his argument style though, "MT isnt bad but Im against it" just like the stance here lol dud youre funny. Almost sad all I see is the red bar. Might reconsider that..
Vanity items are okay. Non-vanity items with marginal benefits like temporary attribute enhancers might be okay. Non-vanity items like gold ammo or gold ships WITH exchange requirements are probably not okay. Non-vanity items like gold ammo or gold ships WITHOUT exchange requirements will never be okay.
I am indifferent to some forms of MT, skeptical about others, and clearly against certain implementations.
You are a fool if you think that means I am unanimously for all MT itself.
Please, try to misconstrue me more, amuse me puppet! ...clearly the Ishukone Watch Scorpion is the fifth horseman of the Apocalypse, i.e. the Brown Rider, otherwise known as Poopie. |
|
SmashTech
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
13
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 18:01:00 -
[501] - Quote
This thread has fully been derailed. |
Ice Fist
Thunderwaffe Goonswarm Federation
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 18:06:00 -
[502] - Quote
Endie update sends forums into a frenzied tailspin? Mission accomplished. |
Sofia Bellard
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
47
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 18:07:00 -
[503] - Quote
Goon alliance botting their face off non-shocker.
Poor sad little pirates, -áwhy you so mad? |
SmashTech
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
14
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 18:29:00 -
[504] - Quote
Sofia Bellard wrote:Goon alliance botting their face off non-shocker.
I like the part where you post evidence |
Lorren Canada
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
44
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 18:32:00 -
[505] - Quote
I now call upon the great power, CCP Zymurgist to close this thread and purge these hallowed halls of posting from the terrible pubbies or something, idk.
Gas thread.
Ban OP. |
Khira Kitamatsu
195
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 18:33:00 -
[506] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote: No. YOU just said that. I actually said the opposite.
Some of you however seem to feel, given your protestations of misconduct and insinuations that we're willfully turning a blind eye, that we're missing something.
Here's your way to do something about that... if you know something's going on instead of making a post on the internet enlighten me. Send me the piles of information you clearly have to be making this determination and help me out a bit. I see a lot of posturing and mudslinging but thus far I've seen 0 people actually doing anything more than posturing on a forum.
Either you have evidence to be making your statements or you don't. If you do, the way to get it dealt with if you're really serious and not just making posts for attention which I can't IMAGINE anyone doing on the internet, is to send it to me. As a matter of fact, go ahead and post, but then send your information to me. If you're not doing that I can only assume you're full of poo, because I can't fathom someone actually having a reason to know something's occurring and claiming they want to see an end to it so badly that they don't actually do the one thing that could get it resolved.
Oh, this is good. LOL! So instead of you doing your job, you want us to do it for you. It's now the players that are responsible for proving if someone is botting or not.
Ponies!-á We need more ponies! |
Blawrf McTaggart
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
75
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Posted - 2011.09.30 18:34:00 -
[507] - Quote
I have twelve accounts currently botting in VFK-IV come kill them |
theteck
0
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Posted - 2011.09.30 18:37:00 -
[508] - Quote
sorry to say but we cant be sure of evidence we dont have any tool to see it
its to ccp to have a punkbuster like software i think or put it legal and that it
now the good people dont want a ban and dont use it and wrong people use it and get rich without doing nothing ... injustice that all that i see
---------------------------------------------------------------------------| I'm from Qu+¬bec and english its my secondary language...-á|-á |
SmashTech
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
14
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Posted - 2011.09.30 18:38:00 -
[509] - Quote
All of my bot accounts are currently on the Y-2ANO gate to ZXB-VC killing Estamel. Come stop me if you can. |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
128
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Posted - 2011.09.30 18:52:00 -
[510] - Quote
Shai 'Hulud wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:No. YOU just said that. I actually said the opposite.
Some of you however seem to feel, given your protestations of misconduct and insinuations that we're willfully turning a blind eye, that we're missing something.
Here's your way to do something about that... if you know something's going on instead of making a post on the internet enlighten me. Send me the piles of information you clearly have to be making this determination and help me out a bit. I see a lot of posturing and mudslinging but thus far I've seen 0 people actually doing anything more than posturing on a forum.
Either you have evidence to be making your statements or you don't. If you do, the way to get it dealt with if you're really serious and not just making posts for attention which I can't IMAGINE anyone doing on the internet, is to send it to me. As a matter of fact, go ahead and post, but then send your information to me. If you're not doing that I can only assume you're full of poo, because I can't fathom someone actually having a reason to know something's occurring and claiming they want to see an end to it so badly that they don't actually do the one thing that could get it resolved. With all due respect, you seem a bit ignorant on the mechanics of detecting a bot. As players, our ability to gather hard evidence on these activities is very limited. We do not have access to the piles of information that you do. You are asking us for more than we can give you. If you are expecting us to provide you with all the data needed to confirm a given player account is indeed botting, then it is no surprise that the botting issue has not been addressed in a meaningful way. Most often, suspicion is all we have. If botting is going to be stopped, it will not originate from the player base. More and more people are botting because there is a well founded perception that you are not doing anything to actively hunt down these rule breakers. And your attacks on our concerns in this thread do not help that perception. All you had to do was say "we will look into this." Sorry to have bothered you with suspicions of sanctioned rule breaking in your game Also, I'm amazed you seem to think that the player base has ANY confidence in you to enforce the rules of your game fairly. You sir, are the one that is full of poo.
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CCP Zymurgist
C C P C C P Alliance
170
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Posted - 2011.09.30 19:06:00 -
[511] - Quote
This thread has run it's course and is getting way off topic.
If you suspect anyone of botting please use the report a bot feature. Zymurgist Community Representative CCP NA, EVE Online Contact Us at http://support.eveonline.com/pages/petitions/createpetition.aspx |
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