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Mr Floydy
The Xenodus Initiative. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
20
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 20:28:00 -
[1681] - Quote
*Sensible Post time*
Loving the basis of the change. HML losing approx 20% damage is great. However as much as is it great to hear that following this a Tengu with a range of 110km is no longer going to roughly match that of a Legion or Loki at minimum range, I'm thinking it could be done a different way.
Ignoring the missiles themselves for a second. Comparing short range guns to long range on cruisers. The long range options are barely used. The dps loss on them compared to short range is quite noticeable, and that's before you take into account. I know you're looking at reducing the grid requirements of Beams and Arty - do you think this alone will be enough to make them a better option in comparison with the short range options?
Has the idea of boosting the dps of the ranged guns a little, and coming down with HML a little been toyed with? ie 10% damage increase on the guns, 10% drop for the missiles?
With your planned changes, I'm looking forward to HAM being a more worthwhile option, there is rarely any point in using it currently. Although a large part of that is fitting requirements - they're really quite tough to fit on a lot of ships currently, contrary to guns despite being shorter range they have larger grid requirements. I'd like to see this change personally.
What a huge amount of people seem to be missing (the I'm going to quit this game unless I get my SP back people) is that missile ships suck due to the bonuses and actual ship features. Fozzy nailed this with his comment about the Drake being the long range BC of choice despite no range bonus and the weakest damage bonus.... Following this missile change, I'm sure the Drake will pretty much end up where it is now with its hinted bonus changes, the Tengu will no longer blitz everything. Other missile ships such as the Nighthawk need a massive change to make them worthwhile (ship specific here on the nighthawk, no reason to use one with a drake existing)
I'd like to add I'd love to see the HAM specific ships get a look in. See the HAM subs on the Legion, Loki and then look at the Sacrilege too. They're quite a way behind their Caldari counters.
Regarding Tracking Disruption. Can their be specific scripts for missiles rather than using the gunnery ones. It will limit the OTT'ness once they've come out. People won't just have a catch all for dps ships without atleast working a little bit.... |
HELLBOUNDMAN
The Proletarii
60
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 20:29:00 -
[1682] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Simple way to keep tracking disruptors from being overpowered? Don't change them at all, and put whatever changes you were thinking of into another module called guidance disruptors. Make it so that ships with tracking disruption bonuses also give equivalent bonuses to guidance disruption modules. They will be forced to fit one or the other, or both, but having to give up something in return instead of having a module that works in every single situation.
Otherwise you're turning TD into an I WIN button to fit in every single situation.
You can only fit so many modules on a ship.
So, I feel as though having these modules affect all damage modules is fair.
As long as they remove defender missiles anyway.
If they don't and attempt to "fix" defenders, than I'm afraid missiles will be quite a bit more crappy than they will be after these nerfs. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
728
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 20:31:00 -
[1683] - Quote
HELLBOUNDMAN wrote:You can only fit so many modules on a ship. Yes, which is why making players make choices instead of fitting a single module that works in every single case is a good thing. http://themittani.com/features/local-problem A simple fix to the local intel problem |
DJCouGaR
Bundy Rum manufacturing
0
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 20:32:00 -
[1684] - Quote
What is it with you guys and nerfing Caldari to be honest take missiles out of the game and make everyone use guns Caldari would be better of , and by the way can I have all the skills back i trained on missiles because they are useless now |
MIrple
BSC LEGION Tactical Narcotics Team
113
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 20:34:00 -
[1685] - Quote
Terik Deatharbingr wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote::Edit: I responded to some of the questions raised in this post and copied the responses to the end of this post as well:Heavy Missiles-Base flight time reduced by 30% -Base velocity increased by 6.66% -In total, base range reduced by ~25% -Damage decreased by 20% (rounded to closest digit) -Affects all variant Heavy missiles, including FOF. Translation: All lvl 5 drake dps with 2 T2 BCS and T2 HMs: Range: 56.9 (down from 75.9) DPS: 316.8 (down from 396, including reload time) Volley: 2209.6 (down from 2762) CPU used: 291.2 PG used: 661.5 All lvl 5 drake dps with 2 T2 BCS and T2 HAMs: Range: 18.1 DPS: 493 Volley: 1841 CPU used: 262.5 PG used: 793.8 And none of this takes into account speed and sig radius of target ship....which is something anti-drake/tengu people don't consider when it comes to DPS.
So we agree that HM fit in fine now with other medium ranged weapons? HAM need to have there DPS buffed a bit 10% would make them close to ~550 with this set up and that seams to be in range of other current short ranged set ups. |
Lili Lu
449
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 20:35:00 -
[1686] - Quote
Terik Deatharbingr wrote: the only thing they should honestly do to HM's is switch the PG needs of the HAM and HM....that makes more sense than nerfing HM's range and DPS. Most people don't consider the fact that an HM has to reload every 40 volleys on T2 missiles while you get anywhere from 80-120 before reloading on guns. The dps stats usually take account of reload time, but of course if they haven't then they should.
To digress - I have been a vocal propornent of a drake and tengu nerf. That the first salvo comes on HMLs is not what I envisioned. I have always been more concerned about the resist bonus and the skewed BC shield regen stats. But yeah I have mentioned the range advantage and dps over range advantage that Drakes and HMLs possessed which everyone identified and led to the overuse of the ship.
That being said, I am concerned with the damage nerf on HMs. I fully agree that having similarly bonused Drakes doing 400 dps at 70km (with faction ammo or fury) and any other tier 2 Turret BC doing only 250 or so (with tech II long ranged ammo) at that range was a mistake (tech one turret ammo has an even worse comparison). The balancing should take into account this disparity and shrink it. However, it is a valid point for missile proponents to point out that they do not have the turret short range higher damage option.
Comparing medium pulse, ac, and balster theoretical dps against a Drake with HMs has always been a flawed argument with missile proponents, but comparing tech II long range gun short range high damage ammo with Fury is valid. So let's look at the current situation.
Harbinger with Aurora and two HS II with all level 5 skills dps is 271 Drake with Scourge Fury and two BCS II and all 5 skills dps is 396 Each with 7 weapons, hittiing for this at 70km, no drones
Changing that Harby to Gleam and it's dps is 475 but range is only 10km optimal (2 TC II with optimal)
So from a purely dps balancing perspective (disregarding the downsides of each weapon system with tracking or explosion parameters as each get affected by target speed or sig) the HMs should be coming in somewhere in the middle for dps. A Drake's 400 at 70km is too much. But it is all a matter of what lesser value for the Drake does not skew the pilot choice considerations too far toward the Harby.
Edit - And I feel sorta sad discussing this because part of me is wishing that Drake specialists could go through 4 years of what the Harbinger specialists endured. But then that would not be progress. So there it is. Don't nerf the Drake and HMs too much.
2nd edit - And the range and explosion parameters on TCs and TEs have to of course be careful, lest we get the ridiculous fits for those and we instead of nerfing Drake usuage actually end up with Drake total frig killers or Drake HM sniper or HAM kiters extraordinaire. I have faith that the Fozzie Ytterbium et al team can get the numbers right. |
Onictus
Silver Snake Enterprise Against ALL Authorities
179
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 20:35:00 -
[1687] - Quote
Terik Deatharbingr wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote::Edit: I responded to some of the questions raised in this post and copied the responses to the end of this post as well:Heavy Missiles-Base flight time reduced by 30% -Base velocity increased by 6.66% -In total, base range reduced by ~25% -Damage decreased by 20% (rounded to closest digit) -Affects all variant Heavy missiles, including FOF. Translation: All lvl 5 drake dps with 2 T2 BCS and T2 HMs: Range: 56.9 (down from 75.9) DPS: 316.8 (down from 396, including reload time) Volley: 2209.6 (down from 2762) CPU used: 291.2 PG used: 661.5 All lvl 5 drake dps with 2 T2 BCS and T2 HAMs: Range: 18.1 DPS: 493 Volley: 1841 CPU used: 262.5 PG used: 793.8 And none of this takes into account speed and sig radius of target ship....which is something anti-drake/tengu people don't consider when it comes to DPS.
Since 99% of non-T3 PvP ships have MWDs, you can pretty much ignore sig penalties above the frigate class, because if a AB Ruppie is threatening you in a Drake, you are doing it wrong.
|
HELLBOUNDMAN
The Proletarii
60
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 20:36:00 -
[1688] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:HELLBOUNDMAN wrote:You can only fit so many modules on a ship. Yes, which is why making players make choices instead of fitting a single module that works in every single case is a good thing.
yes, but at the same time, you're making it unfair for turret boats.
The vast majority of ships in game use turrets, then you have a few here and there that use missiles, so why would I fit against missiles if I'm going to be seeing mostly turret boats, expecially after these nerfs? |
Bloutok
Murientor Tribe Defiant Legacy
13
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 20:36:00 -
[1689] - Quote
DJCouGaR wrote:What is it with you guys and nerfing Caldari to be honest take missiles out of the game and make everyone use guns Caldari would be better of , and by the way can I have all the skills back i trained on missiles because they are useless now
Yeah, entirely remove the Caldari race.
No, i am not joking.
One of the problem is that CCP is not giving us the entire picture. What will be done with all the cruiser sized ships ? BCs, BSs ..... Titans ?
We have to decide if it's good with only a few pieces of the puzzle in place.
If they nerf the ECM again. There will truly be nothing left....... |
Terik Deatharbingr
AirHogs Zulu People
5
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 20:38:00 -
[1690] - Quote
MIrple wrote:Terik Deatharbingr wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote::Edit: I responded to some of the questions raised in this post and copied the responses to the end of this post as well:Heavy Missiles-Base flight time reduced by 30% -Base velocity increased by 6.66% -In total, base range reduced by ~25% -Damage decreased by 20% (rounded to closest digit) -Affects all variant Heavy missiles, including FOF. Translation: All lvl 5 drake dps with 2 T2 BCS and T2 HMs: Range: 56.9 (down from 75.9) DPS: 316.8 (down from 396, including reload time) Volley: 2209.6 (down from 2762) CPU used: 291.2 PG used: 661.5 All lvl 5 drake dps with 2 T2 BCS and T2 HAMs: Range: 18.1 DPS: 493 Volley: 1841 CPU used: 262.5 PG used: 793.8 And none of this takes into account speed and sig radius of target ship....which is something anti-drake/tengu people don't consider when it comes to DPS. So we agree that HM fit in fine now with other medium ranged weapons? HAM need to have there DPS buffed a bit 10% would make them close to ~550 with this set up and that seams to be in range of other current short ranged set ups.
Yes, I completely agree...i think the only change would be switching the PG needs of the HM and HAM's....it doesn't make sense to me that the short range weapon should need more PG as it makes the HMs easier to fit.
I also think they need to buff the Rails *extra range is pointless, most people don't care* and Laser's *while it should be a little lower since there is no cycle time compared to projectiles and Rails. Basically....why can't I get the same DPS *not volley damage, but dps* on any one of the 4 main BC's that everyone uses with the same basic damage mods? |
|
Onictus
Silver Snake Enterprise Against ALL Authorities
179
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 20:39:00 -
[1691] - Quote
Bloutok wrote:DJCouGaR wrote:What is it with you guys and nerfing Caldari to be honest take missiles out of the game and make everyone use guns Caldari would be better of , and by the way can I have all the skills back i trained on missiles because they are useless now Yeah, entirely remove the Caldari race. No, i am not joking. One of the problem is that CCP is not giving us the entire picture. What will be done with all the cruiser sized ships ? BCs, BSs ..... Titans ? We have to decide if it's good with only a few pieces of the puzzle in place. If they nerf the ECM again. There will truly be nothing left.......
So you missed the attack and support cruiser threads completely to come in here and say remove Caldari?
Seriously? |
Shaalira D'arc
Quantum Cats Syndicate
496
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 20:39:00 -
[1692] - Quote
When I first saw this topic yesterday, it was a fairly tame 10 page thread. Now it's a proper threadnaught.
The blowback is to be expected, given that drakes are the most commonly-used ship in both PvP and PvE, and HMLs are the most commonly-used weapon system for the most-commonly-used ship. MMO players get particularly angsty when a balance change hits their preferred playstyle.
As someone that's used the HML drake, I have to agree with the changes. HML was essentially the mid-sized weapon platform for projected damage. Arty canes were a distant second, inferior in DPS, tank, range, and vulnerability to things getting close. Their only advantage, alpha, was eclipsed by the introduction of the Tornado.
With HML in line, we can now see a proper re-balance of battlecruisers down the road. |
Terik Deatharbingr
AirHogs Zulu People
5
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 20:40:00 -
[1693] - Quote
Onictus wrote:Terik Deatharbingr wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote::Edit: I responded to some of the questions raised in this post and copied the responses to the end of this post as well:Heavy Missiles-Base flight time reduced by 30% -Base velocity increased by 6.66% -In total, base range reduced by ~25% -Damage decreased by 20% (rounded to closest digit) -Affects all variant Heavy missiles, including FOF. Translation: All lvl 5 drake dps with 2 T2 BCS and T2 HMs: Range: 56.9 (down from 75.9) DPS: 316.8 (down from 396, including reload time) Volley: 2209.6 (down from 2762) CPU used: 291.2 PG used: 661.5 All lvl 5 drake dps with 2 T2 BCS and T2 HAMs: Range: 18.1 DPS: 493 Volley: 1841 CPU used: 262.5 PG used: 793.8 And none of this takes into account speed and sig radius of target ship....which is something anti-drake/tengu people don't consider when it comes to DPS. Since 99% of non-T3 PvP ships have MWDs, you can pretty much ignore sig penalties above the frigate class, because if a AB Ruppie is threatening you in a Drake, you are doing it wrong.
the sig radius gained is grossly offset by the explosion velocity penalty of having a MWD.... |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
728
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 20:40:00 -
[1694] - Quote
HELLBOUNDMAN wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:HELLBOUNDMAN wrote:You can only fit so many modules on a ship. Yes, which is why making players make choices instead of fitting a single module that works in every single case is a good thing. yes, but at the same time, you're making it unfair for turret boats. The vast majority of ships in game use turrets, then you have a few here and there that use missiles, so why would I fit against missiles if I'm going to be seeing mostly turret boats, expecially after these nerfs? Why would you, then? If you think you're only going to be seeing turret boats, by all means fit the turret disruptor. http://themittani.com/features/local-problem A simple fix to the local intel problem |
Djakku
Pod Liberation Authority HYDRA RELOADED
121
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 20:41:00 -
[1695] - Quote
Yet again adjusting the game based on the mass blobs of 0.0. Unsubbed. |
Skydell
Space Mermaids Somethin Awfull Forums
293
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 20:41:00 -
[1696] - Quote
Bloutok wrote:DJCouGaR wrote:What is it with you guys and nerfing Caldari to be honest take missiles out of the game and make everyone use guns Caldari would be better of , and by the way can I have all the skills back i trained on missiles because they are useless now Yeah, entirely remove the Caldari race. No, i am not joking. One of the problem is that CCP is not giving us the entire picture. What will be done with all the cruiser sized ships ? BCs, BSs ..... Titans ? We have to decide if it's good with only a few pieces of the puzzle in place. If they nerf the ECM again. There will truly be nothing left.......
Kinda, sorta. I said it 4 months ago when I left. Missile nerfs have nothing to do with EVE. They are balancing Dust514. Caldari is just taking all the snot from it. |
Rommiee
Mercury Inc.
475
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 20:42:00 -
[1697] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Dante Lioncourt wrote:But seriously guys do you not think that CCP has got plan for the rest of the caldari missile boats that never get used that would balance this out ? For example the cerb which could be a awesome long range missile boat with wicked speed Or maby they have a suprise for the ferox ? This is EVE anything is possible , just be positive you must be new...... lol
Or a CCP alt |
Bloutok
Murientor Tribe Defiant Legacy
13
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 20:43:00 -
[1698] - Quote
Onictus wrote:Bloutok wrote:DJCouGaR wrote:What is it with you guys and nerfing Caldari to be honest take missiles out of the game and make everyone use guns Caldari would be better of , and by the way can I have all the skills back i trained on missiles because they are useless now Yeah, entirely remove the Caldari race. No, i am not joking. One of the problem is that CCP is not giving us the entire picture. What will be done with all the cruiser sized ships ? BCs, BSs ..... Titans ? We have to decide if it's good with only a few pieces of the puzzle in place. If they nerf the ECM again. There will truly be nothing left....... So you missed the attack and support cruiser threads completely to come in here and say remove Caldari? Seriously?
Nice empty posting, i will reply with a nice empty posting.
empty posting. |
Bloutok
Murientor Tribe Defiant Legacy
13
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 20:45:00 -
[1699] - Quote
Skydell wrote:Bloutok wrote:DJCouGaR wrote:What is it with you guys and nerfing Caldari to be honest take missiles out of the game and make everyone use guns Caldari would be better of , and by the way can I have all the skills back i trained on missiles because they are useless now Yeah, entirely remove the Caldari race. No, i am not joking. One of the problem is that CCP is not giving us the entire picture. What will be done with all the cruiser sized ships ? BCs, BSs ..... Titans ? We have to decide if it's good with only a few pieces of the puzzle in place. If they nerf the ECM again. There will truly be nothing left....... Kinda, sorta. I said it 4 months ago when I left. Missile nerfs have nothing to do with EVE. They are balancing Dust514. Caldari is just taking all the snot from it.
I do not mind that Caldari be re balanced.
What's being proposed is nuking the few good things without giving anything. |
Shaalira D'arc
Quantum Cats Syndicate
496
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 20:47:00 -
[1700] - Quote
For all the alarmism about the fate of the Caldari ship line:
Drakes and Tengus are not the only Caldari ships in the game, believe it or not.
The light missile buff comes at a time when we're already seeing a profligacy of light missile snipers with the new frigates, as well as upcoming missile-based destroyers. The fact that TE and TC will now affect missiles gives Caldari pilots much more flexibility in fitting their ships, allowing for ranges and engagement envelopes previously unavailable to them.
And the new caracal will be amazing.
My big concern with this post is the potency of the tracking disruptor. It's currently already very popular because of how it can neuter turret ships. When it has the capacity to neuter everything, I can see it becoming a must-have mid-slot for solo and small gang roamers. |
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Zarnak Wulf
Imperial Outlaws
567
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 20:51:00 -
[1701] - Quote
Page 85. Wow. Well hopefully CCP Fozzie is still reading this.
I'm concerned about Tracking Disruptors. Faction Warfare is frigate heavy. We've seen the use of alot of the new frigates there. And many if not most are using tracking disruptors. A condor with light missiles, long point, and two TD is common. An arty slasher set up the same way is too. Even Atrons and Executioners will fit a TD rather then a web.
Now I've held my peace as I can build destroyers that lock farther and shoot farther then these small, frail frigates. I also know in the background that missile boats were very capable against them as they were immune to TD. But if that's not the case I can guarantee you that everyone and their mom will be fitting a TD. Some ideas:
- Increase the fittings on the TD. Increase the fitting grid on specialized boats.
- Take the TD for missiles one step further and seperate them for use via race/weapon type. I.E. - create a TD for hybrids, projectiles, lasers, missiles, and a weak general purpose one.
- Nerf the TD and boost the specialized boats.
|
Lili Lu
449
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 20:55:00 -
[1702] - Quote
Bloutok wrote: reposting other's whines and stuff
You know, you are late to this. And the discussion has really moved past the "just delete Caldari" exagerated angry unthinking replies. You should read more and focus on the rational discussion that is starting to occur.
You may have something valuable to contribute to that. But your emotional reaction to the proposed (and subject to much tweeking in itself) change is not really helping the thread at this time. Commiserate with people on voice comms or something (assuming they will all think as you presently do). Then come back to post your valuable thoughts and suggestions concerning the mechanics and stats of this change, after you have cleared that from your system. |
Onictus
Silver Snake Enterprise Against ALL Authorities
179
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 20:55:00 -
[1703] - Quote
Terik Deatharbingr wrote:
the sig radius gained is grossly offset by the explosion velocity penalty of having a MWD....
Could have fooled me, why do you think that null alliances are flying AB Tengus? The sparking 615 (or less) DPS?
For reference http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/knof/eve_missiles.swf
You lose 9dps on a drake vs a hurricane going 1450ms....oh noes. |
Onictus
Silver Snake Enterprise Against ALL Authorities
179
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 21:01:00 -
[1704] - Quote
Bloutok wrote:Onictus wrote:Bloutok wrote:DJCouGaR wrote:What is it with you guys and nerfing Caldari to be honest take missiles out of the game and make everyone use guns Caldari would be better of , and by the way can I have all the skills back i trained on missiles because they are useless now Yeah, entirely remove the Caldari race. No, i am not joking. One of the problem is that CCP is not giving us the entire picture. What will be done with all the cruiser sized ships ? BCs, BSs ..... Titans ? We have to decide if it's good with only a few pieces of the puzzle in place. If they nerf the ECM again. There will truly be nothing left....... So you missed the attack and support cruiser threads completely to come in here and say remove Caldari? Seriously? Nice empty posting, i will reply with a nice empty posting. empty posting.
Since you can't be bothered to check the threads STICKIED IN THIS FORUM
Don't let the door hit you in the ass. |
Lord Ryan
True Xero
617
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 21:02:00 -
[1705] - Quote
Area51 wrote:I think the HM changes (nerf?)is necessary to make it on par with long range medium guns. But now, HAMs need more love! Yeah, cause everytime I login I think man this game would be so sweet if CCP would just nerf missiles. I mean if missiles sucked I wouldn't feel so fail in my brutix. Do not assume-áanything above this line-áwas typed by me. Nerf the Truth, it's inconvenient. Nerf it cause I can't fly it. I want to fly a badass Mon Calamari stlye-ácruiser painted to match my Tron clothes. |
Michael Harari
The Hatchery Team Liquid
312
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 21:03:00 -
[1706] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote: [list]
The damage per second of heavy missile ships like the Drake seems low, why are you making it even lower?I believe the main source of disagreement here comes from comparisons between Heavy Missiles (a long range weapon platform) and short range weapons like autocannons or blasters.
This quite simply isnt true. Its true if you only compare the HML drake to long range long range ammo against same size ships.
Artycanes with EMP outdamage drakes at point range. The same goes for rails and beams on the appropriate hulls.
Now against smaller, sig tanking things? Go ahead and tell me that a HML drake does more damage than a small railgun hurricane to a mwding stiletto. I have fraps footage of my stiletto taking sustained fire from around 90 drakes. Earlier in the same fight my taranis died to a single autocane. Guns and missiles arent the same, and you cant just compare eft damage numbers. |
Lili Lu
449
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 21:05:00 -
[1707] - Quote
Zarnak Wulf wrote:Page 85. Wow. Well hopefully CCP Fozzie is still reading this. I'm concerned about Tracking Disruptors. Faction Warfare is frigate heavy. We've seen the use of alot of the new frigates there. And many if not most are using tracking disruptors. A condor with light missiles, long point, and two TD is common. An arty slasher set up the same way is too. Even Atrons and Executioners will fit a TD rather then a web. Now I've held my peace as I can build destroyers that lock farther and shoot farther then these small, frail frigates. I also know in the background that missile boats were very capable against them as they were immune to TD. But if that's not the case I can guarantee you that everyone and their mom will be fitting a TD. Some ideas:
- Increase the fittings on the TD. Increase the fitting grid on specialized boats.
- Take the TD for missiles one step further and seperate them for use via race/weapon type. I.E. - create a TD for hybrids, projectiles, lasers, missiles, and a weak general purpose one.
- Nerf the TD and boost the specialized boats.
Good post.
Except, I don't think it is reasonable to expect TDs for each gun and missile type. Amarr typically gets the fewest mids, even on the ewar boats. But certainly a turret TD mod and a missile TD mod appear to be being considered. The idea of a general purpose TD mod with an even weaker effect is a worthy concept to consider.
Also, I don't think the fittings on TD need to be messed with (and it would be cpu btw which again is usually lacking on amarr boats). It would be enough to weaken the base stats such that the use of two TDs on a Caldari frig would not be worth it's present value I think. |
MIrple
BSC LEGION Tactical Narcotics Team
113
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 21:06:00 -
[1708] - Quote
Michael Harari wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote: [list]
The damage per second of heavy missile ships like the Drake seems low, why are you making it even lower?I believe the main source of disagreement here comes from comparisons between Heavy Missiles (a long range weapon platform) and short range weapons like autocannons or blasters. This quite simply isnt true. Its true if you only compare the HML drake to long range long range ammo against same size ships. Artycanes with EMP outdamage drakes at point range. The same goes for rails and beams on the appropriate hulls. Now against smaller, sig tanking things? Go ahead and tell me that a HML drake does more damage than a small railgun hurricane to a mwding stiletto. I have fraps footage of my stiletto taking sustained fire from around 90 drakes. Earlier in the same fight my taranis died to a single autocane. Guns and missiles arent the same, and you cant just compare eft damage numbers.
I highlighted the important part that is a close range weapon system with high tracking. |
Michael Harari
The Hatchery Team Liquid
313
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 21:08:00 -
[1709] - Quote
http://i.imgur.com/m8Aw9.jpg is a screenshot of several hundred heavy missiles flying at my stiletto.
Also, Ive volleyed many an interceptor in my artycane. |
Marcus Harikari
Guitar Players of EVE
88
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 21:11:00 -
[1710] - Quote
patrick elektros wrote:this is about CCP making more money, by making people train other skills and this nerfs people making in game money, in effect making it harder for people to pay for plex with in game isk. in effect hoping that people will in turn have to pay real money to play the game. ccp has been about making money, ad not about working with the players on some level fora while now. and this is aNERF on tengus and drakes, the 2 biggest ratting boats in the game.
you got an issue with this, let ccp know, make them rollback the nerf, but keep in mind walmart only rolls back items it's raise prices on first.
the moderate change would have been 7.5% reduction in missile damage and 5% in range. this wasnt against goons or anybody else, it was against all of us to pay more to play (notice plex prices at an all time high) and since the plex sellers are lookin to sell higher price plex and the plex buyers wont be able to make the money, maybe plexes will drop, but i doubt it.
CCP keep in mind we will find better fits for better ships, no matter what you do you need to remember that nerfing pvp/pve ships and buffering industrials is the first step to being like wow, and your sandbox will get sludge in it. THIS |
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