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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 29 post(s) |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
4720
|
Posted - 2012.10.01 09:16:00 -
[1] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:Benny Ohu wrote:The part that says "sell or rent out kill rights" is referring to the selling or renting out of kill rights.
Killrights at the moment are a system that isn't being used. Besides, many ganks are made upon industry or low-skill alts that wouldn't be able to take advantage of the killrights anyway.
I don't understand your objection to outsourcing a bit of pewpew. What's the difference between the original character attacking a person without consequence and someone else attacking the same person without consequence? Remember that many characters being ganked aren't skilled in pvp. Besides that, a percentage-based bounty system wouldn't work in highsec unless the mercenary was able to kill the target for profit. If the target flies a battlecruiser, suicide ganking for profit just isn't possible.
A wardec allows you to pay to attack someone. Buying killrights allows you to attack someone. The difference is, with a wardec, they could be innocent, they know you're coming and they'll fly a suitable pvp ship. With transferrable killrights, they've performed a criminal action, which they knew would create a kill right (this is important), you can catch them by surprise, and you're more able to catch them in something that'll hurt their wallet when it goes 'boom'.
I think another important difference is that a wardec will likely cost more but allows you to attack that person multiple times. A killright only works once. Whether or not it will cost more to buy will depend upon the bounty or the target, I guess. Somehow missed that line The difference is that it's a whole different person. A person that you have done nothing to and thus have no way of knowing is after you. If the people who have outgoing killrights are unwilling to prosecute those killrights, that's their problem. They have access to the exact same skills and rules as everyone else..
In other words, you're complaining that criminals will be in the exact same situation as suicide gank victims, never knowing who's going to attack them or when?
I'm trying to think of a reason not to say "Well suck it up then", but I can't.
Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
4721
|
Posted - 2012.10.01 09:27:00 -
[2] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:Malcanis wrote:In other words, you're complaining that criminals will be in the exact same situation as suicide gank victims, never knowing who's going to attack them or when?
I'm trying to think of a reason not to say "Well suck it up then", but I can't.
Except that Suicide Gankers lose their ships. They get to say "Surprise" but it costs them their ship. People exercising kill rights do not lose anything.
People with killrights against them have by definition committed an attack on someone else to have; they're not in the same position as Freddy The Freighter Alt here.
Don't do the crime if you can't do the time. Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
4722
|
Posted - 2012.10.01 10:15:00 -
[3] - Quote
I'm sorry Pipa, but you really are arguing the wrong corner here.
If gankers and pirates are worried about being attacked in hi-sec due to transferrable killrights then they should follow the same advice that is offered to potential suicide gank victims: fly cheap ships, situational awareness, bring friends, avoid danger spots, don't go AFK. Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
4722
|
Posted - 2012.10.01 10:17:00 -
[4] - Quote
Alternatively, stop ganking and pirating if you're worried about people in ships more threatening than haulers and hulks shooting back at you. Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
4723
|
Posted - 2012.10.01 11:05:00 -
[5] - Quote
Tippia wrote:I suppose a lot of that will also depend on who can buy those killrights. The bounty changes already sound like they're (slowly) introducing the whole concept of legal persons in EVE and giving them some of the same properties as individuals. Now imagine what would happen if a killright became a corp propertyGǪ
Corporations are people, my friend! Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
4746
|
Posted - 2012.10.02 07:09:00 -
[6] - Quote
Cipher Jones wrote:Putting bounties on non criminals is absolutely ******* ridiculous.
Are corp thieves criminals? Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
4746
|
Posted - 2012.10.02 07:10:00 -
[7] - Quote
Asura Kai wrote:Another idea for improving upcoming bounty system:
1. Link experience loss to the amount of bounty currently in your head. What this means is that for example if you had 1mil isk in bounty on your head, you will loose 1000 exp point the moment you are killed or podded regardless of your clone limit. So let say you had 10mil in bounty, and player A poded you, player A will receive your bounty and you will lost 10000exp. Of course the Exp/ISK ratio can be adjust to suit the need.
2. Wanted player with bounty can also buy Insurance with Concord with the equal amount of ISk in their bounty to ensure they do not lost exp when poded.
With this changes, it will close the loop hole of using an alt to collect your own bounty because the cost of that bounty is going to be too high. It will also increase realism and extra thrill that came with your notoriety. I believe it will also bring new fevor and zeal back to all those PVPer to pod their prey back to Lvl1.
Not to mention this will be a very good ISK sink.
That is a truly dreadful idea. Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
4748
|
Posted - 2012.10.02 09:02:00 -
[8] - Quote
Poetic Stanziel wrote:Cipher Jones wrote:Putting bounties on non criminals is absolutely ******* ridiculous. What if you happen to use the word "loose" in place of "lose" all the time in your posts? Should I not have the right to exact retribution upon you?
Right? Nay, duty! Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
4748
|
Posted - 2012.10.02 09:03:00 -
[9] - Quote
Cipher Jones wrote:Quote:How so? It's not like criminal organisations don't put prices on people's heads all the time, especially if they're annoying do-gooders who interfere with their businessGǪ Yes, criminal organizations put out bounties all the time. And the ones who collect on them are wanted criminals. Even if they weren't before. So unless they are going to implement something along that line also, no thx. Quote:Are corp thieves criminals? My favorite kind.
So are you in favour of being able to put bounties on them or not? Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
4752
|
Posted - 2012.10.02 09:30:00 -
[10] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:Malcanis wrote:I'm sorry Pipa, but you really are arguing the wrong corner here.
If gankers and pirates are worried about being attacked in hi-sec due to transferrable killrights then they should follow the same advice that is offered to potential suicide gank victims: fly cheap ships, situational awareness, bring friends, avoid danger spots, don't go AFK. If they're not alerted to the sale of their killright, what amount of situational awareness will help? As CONCORD won't be getting involved, there's no set of ships that would be commonly used. What can friends do? Unlike the victims of suicide ganks, their friends can't do anything without being CONCORDed. What danger spots? Locator agents, mean that that's anywhere..
the same situational awareness that Freighter pilots have to us when they're not alerted to a planned gank?
Pipa Porto wrote:
What risk does the miner take in selling their killright? They don't have to put any effort or money into it. What risk does the buyer take? They're not going to lose their ship, so they have no need to worry about profitability, and they can back out up until the instant they point their target.
The miner has already subsumed their risk into a ship loss that has already happened. In other words, he takes exactly the same risk as a suicide ganker; parlaying a definite ship loss into a possible kill.
Sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. If you're too scared of reprisal to suicide gank, then don't do it.
hth Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
4752
|
Posted - 2012.10.02 09:32:00 -
[11] - Quote
Herr Hammer Draken wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:Malcanis wrote:I'm sorry Pipa, but you really are arguing the wrong corner here.
If gankers and pirates are worried about being attacked in hi-sec due to transferrable killrights then they should follow the same advice that is offered to potential suicide gank victims: fly cheap ships, situational awareness, bring friends, avoid danger spots, don't go AFK. If they're not alerted to the sale of their killright, what amount of situational awareness will help? As CONCORD won't be getting involved, there's no set of ships that would be commonly used. What can friends do? Unlike the victims of suicide ganks, their friends can't do anything without being CONCORDed. What danger spots? Locator agents, mean that that's anywhere. What risk does the miner take in selling their killright? They don't have to put any effort or money into it. What risk does the buyer take? They're not going to lose their ship, so they have no need to worry about profitability, and they can back out up until the instant they point their target. I do agree that everyone needs to know who owns your kill right. The game should notify you when a kill right is transfered to a new owner.
Should "the game" notify you when there are 12 guys in gank-fit tornados on the other side of a gate, or 4 dudes in catalysts warping to your belt? Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
4754
|
Posted - 2012.10.02 10:07:00 -
[12] - Quote
I'm saying that people who inflict random violence on others in hi-sec for fun and profit should scarcely complain when the possibility now applies to them. And it's not like pirates are flying about in unarmed industrials, either. They're being faced with the prospect of a single opponent in a pvP ship just like them. Why so serious? Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
4755
|
Posted - 2012.10.02 10:25:00 -
[13] - Quote
Paging Matrix Skye to this thread... Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
4755
|
Posted - 2012.10.02 10:56:00 -
[14] - Quote
ugh zug wrote:oddly enough it sounds exactly like the bounty system i suggested they use years ago O_o
A lot of people have made similar suggestions, including yours truly.
If CCP deliver the proposed system, then I'll be very happy indeed. One of the first things I asked about when my friend was trying to persuaude me to start playing EVE was "Can I be a bounty-hunter?".
His answer made me
(The other thing I asked about was Smuggling, but hey, what's another 6 years?)
Honestly though, the wailing and gnashing about the prospect of a massive boost to solo PvP in hi-sec is just.. :derp: This will be one of the best things to happen to hi-sec in years. Not least because if it provides a player mechanism to effectively retaliate vs criminal acts, then it may hopefully alleiviate the continual calls for more and more CONCORD buffs. If bounty hunting takes off, it might even pave the way towards a reduction in the NPC presence.
Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
4756
|
Posted - 2012.10.02 12:12:00 -
[15] - Quote
Hrothgar Nilsson wrote:Why do people have this notion that kill rights have anything to do with the revamp to the bounty system?
Because transferrable killrights are what make bounty-hunting a viable profession. Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
4756
|
Posted - 2012.10.02 13:03:00 -
[16] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:Malcanis wrote:Hrothgar Nilsson wrote:Why do people have this notion that kill rights have anything to do with the revamp to the bounty system?
Because transferable killrights are what make bounty-hunting a viable profession. Why? Set your bounty high enough to make a suicide gank worthwhile. Why should bounty-hunting be cost and risk free (as your version of transferable kill rights makes it)?
"Risk free"? Are suicide gankers all such nugatory PvPers that attacking them is a zero risk activity? Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
4756
|
Posted - 2012.10.02 14:10:00 -
[17] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:Malcanis wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:Malcanis wrote:Hrothgar Nilsson wrote:Why do people have this notion that kill rights have anything to do with the revamp to the bounty system?
Because transferable killrights are what make bounty-hunting a viable profession. Why? Set your bounty high enough to make a suicide gank worthwhile. Why should bounty-hunting be cost and risk free (as your version of transferable kill rights makes it)? "Risk free"? Are suicide gankers all such nugatory PvPers that attacking them is a zero risk activity? Let me list the advantages you would have going after the blind killright victim. 1. You get to chose time and place. 2. You get to know what ship they're flying. 3. You get to check what fit they're running. 4. You get to chose the starting range. 5. You get the first shot. 6. You get to abandon your attempt if you've spooked your target. 7. 1, 4,5,6 are all mechanically enforced. Tell me, with all that stacked against you, could you win? Could anyone?
So.... which of those don't apply to suicide ganking? Should that be removed also? Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
4756
|
Posted - 2012.10.02 14:13:00 -
[18] - Quote
Meanwhile, let me list the advantages the killright victim has over the gank victim:
1) Only the guy with the killright can attack him 2) He can be in any ship he likes, presumably one that's PvP capable 3) He's likely to be in the company of other PvPers who may be willing to assist him eg with logistics, bumping or even suicide ganking 4) He's unlikely to have expensive fittings, and won't necessarily be in a T2 ship. 5) He knows that there are killrights on him, and has a specific reason to be alert for a known period of time
Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
4756
|
Posted - 2012.10.02 14:16:00 -
[19] - Quote
honestly, Pipa, I'm really disappointed with you taking a stand against a shift to player-enforced consequences rather than yet another dreary CONCORD boost. Especially one that promotes the holy grails of solo PvP and hi-sec PvP. Is non consensual PvP only desirable when it's against players in defenceless non combat ships or something? You're sounding like the stereotype "gankbear" in the badposts about piracy and ganking. Stop feeding those guys lines for the love of God. Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
4758
|
Posted - 2012.10.02 14:39:00 -
[20] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:Malcanis wrote:Meanwhile, let me list the advantages the killright victim has over the gank victim:
1) Only the guy with the killright can attack him 2) He can be in any ship he likes, presumably one that's PvP capable 3) He's likely to be in the company of other PvPers who may be willing to assist him eg with logistics, bumping or even suicide ganking 4) He's unlikely to have expensive fittings, and won't necessarily be in a T2 ship. 5) He knows that there are killrights on him, and has a specific reason to be alert for a known period of time
1) But he can't find out who they are, so that's no advantage.
Oh right, you're just trolling. Sorry, carry on.
Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
4759
|
Posted - 2012.10.02 14:48:00 -
[21] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Alternatively, stop ganking and pirating if you're worried about people in ships more threatening than haulers and hulks shooting back at you.
Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
4759
|
Posted - 2012.10.02 15:01:00 -
[22] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:Killright kills don't cost the attacker anything.
Except the ship that was lost to create the killright in the first place
Malcanis wrote:Alternatively, stop ganking and pirating if you're worried about people in ships more threatening than haulers and hulks shooting back at you.
Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
4767
|
Posted - 2012.10.02 18:23:00 -
[23] - Quote
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:Suicide killrights victims can find out who's hunting them and avoid them. It's called local and d-Scan. That they choose not to is irrelevant.
Fixed. Carry on. By the way, forcing miners to D-scan through hundreds of pilots in a system is essentially the same as you having to sort through who's hunting you as well. Don't like it? Then follow the advice you give to miners: Find quieter systems to do your business in. Stay alert. Dock the first sign of trouble. Stay aligned. Add the boogymen to your contacts list. Get friends to protect you. Don't fly ships you can't afford to lose. Fight. Yadda yadda yadda.
It feels weird to say this, but you're right. Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
4769
|
Posted - 2012.10.02 18:26:00 -
[24] - Quote
Kyt Thrace wrote:This is how I view it:
If I go to high sec & gank a miner/freighter just for the fun of it, then that miner/freighter can sell the kill right on me to a bounty hunter.
I am okay at NOT knowing the bounty hunter that can come after me & has rights to kill me.
I believe that if I do something that is illegal, then I assume the responsibility for it.
If this is the way it works then I think bounty hunting will be the new FOTM.
And this would probably slow down the ganking, which in turn will make high sec safer for the carebears.
If anyone's thinking that bounty hunting will stop ganking, then they're deluding themselves. Low SP destroyer alts are pretty much unaffected, for instance.
The players who will be affected are high-SP professional gankers, who will become the target of high-SP professional bounty hunters. Apparently some people think this is abloobloobloo unfair. Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
4784
|
Posted - 2012.10.03 06:47:00 -
[25] - Quote
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:
Remember: You consent to unconsensual PVP the moment you press the "Undock" button.
My new sig! GÖÑ
MatrixSkye Mk2: "Remember: You consent to unconsensual PVP the moment you press the "Undock" button." |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
4784
|
Posted - 2012.10.03 06:56:00 -
[26] - Quote
Seriously, when it gets Matrix to say something like that, you know that CCP are doing the right thing with this new bounty system. MatrixSkye Mk2: "Remember: You consent to unconsensual PVP the moment you press the "Undock" button." |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
4784
|
Posted - 2012.10.03 07:49:00 -
[27] - Quote
I know it is. It's the fact that Matrix Skye said it that's remarkable. MatrixSkye Mk2: "Remember: You consent to unconsensual PVP the moment you press the "Undock" button." |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
4784
|
Posted - 2012.10.03 08:33:00 -
[28] - Quote
Hazen Koraka wrote:Why not make it so noone running and alt character or another account owned by the same person can collect on the bounty? I'm sure its possible unless they have completely different IP addresses/email accounts and credit cards.
Payout per kill is going to be capped at 20-25% of the hull cost. If you're willing to spend 1.25 bill on ships to collect a 250M bounty, then go to it and good luck. MatrixSkye Mk2: "Remember: You consent to unconsensual PVP the moment you press the "Undock" button." |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
4784
|
Posted - 2012.10.03 10:47:00 -
[29] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:Except no. What does a killright hunter fly? Anything. What's their name? Anything. There's nothing to d-scan for. There's nobody to look for in local. There's nothing to stay alert for. The killright hunter has a game mechanically enforced element of surprise that the target cannot overcome. Except yes. Watch out for HACs, HICs, fast ships, ships normally flown by PVPers. You yourself should fly in fast ships. Being this is a PVP game be ready to PVP at a moment's notice. Don't fly ships you can't afford to lose. Learn who the bounty hunters are and add them to your contacts list. Fly with friends. The sooner you realize hi sec isn't safe the better. Also, stay aligned. Stay away from congested systems. Remember: You consent to unconsensual PVP the moment you press the "Undock" button. There's the rub. In HS, unconsensual, surprise PvP costs the attacker their ship.
It's not a surprise. Your character sheet lists active killrights against you.
In hi-sec you have to pay in order to aggress, but you don't necessarily have to pay with your ship.
Suicide gankers do pay with their ship.
War Targets pay with their wardec fees.
Killright owners pay with the ship they lost that granted them the killright.
Bounty hunters will pay for the killright they purchase from the original killright owner.
hth
MatrixSkye Mk2: "Remember: You consent to unconsensual PVP the moment you press the "Undock" button." |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
4784
|
Posted - 2012.10.03 13:40:00 -
[30] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:Malcanis wrote:It's not a surprise. Your character sheet lists active killrights against you. And the thing people have been proposing is that people whose killrights get purchased don't get informed. You might try reading the bit that I've posted some 5 times in this thread. I'll be excited about killrights if the target gets notified and gets equivalent combat rights against the purchaser (like a one-man-wardec).
You've posted it 5 times and IMO it's still a false equivalence. The bounty target still has more information and a reduced threat than the prospective gank victim who sold his killright, and no one (certainly not you) is advocating giving them any more. I fail to see why the target of revenge should be allowed more information than the target of the original crime, the more so since they voluntarily placed themself in the situation to begin with.
I think at this stage we'll just have to agree to disagree, since repeating the same debate points at each other must be making some tedious reading by now.
Pipa Porto wrote:Killright purchasers still have the major advantage that they can team up.
I'm sorry, are you trying to imply that gankers and pirates can't or don't team up on their victims? If it's legitimate for 15 guys in artynados to blap a freighter (and I believe it is, and I'm pretty sure you do too) then why isn't it OK for several different bounty hunters to each purchase a killright on the same guy and hunt him down together?
In any case, this can only happen if a perp has multiple killrights open against him and his "crimes" are so egregious and the bounty on him so high that it becomes worthwhile to do so. In which case, yeah... so?
MatrixSkye Mk2: "Remember: You consent to unconsensual PVP the moment you press the "Undock" button." |
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
4784
|
Posted - 2012.10.03 14:42:00 -
[31] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:Malcanis wrote:You've posted it 5 times and IMO it's still a false equivalence. The bounty target still has more information and a reduced threat than the prospective gank victim who sold his killright, and no one (certainly not you) is advocating giving them any more. I fail to see why the target of revenge should be allowed more information than the target of the original crime, the more so since they voluntarily placed themself in the situation to begin with. In what way does the blind killright target have more information on who's gunning for them than the gank victim? The gank victim can d-scan to discover an inbound gank fleet. A killright target can d-scan for... what? Any Ship? That's useful. A gank victim can be wary of pilots with negative sec statuses (not foolproof, but still effective). A killright target can watch out for... whom? Any Character? That's useful. Everyone's volunteered to be the potential target of a surprise attack any time they undock in HS. The understanding, however, is that that surprise will cost the attacker their ship. Why should killright buyers get a risk free, cost free, consequence free gank? Quote:Pipa Porto wrote:Killright purchasers still have the major advantage that they can team up. I'm sorry, are you trying to imply that gankers and pirates can't or don't team up on their victims? If it's legitimate for 15 guys in artynados to blap a freighter (and I believe it is, and I'm pretty sure you do too) then why isn't it OK for several different bounty hunters to each purchase a killright on the same guy and hunt him down together? In any case, this can only happen if a perp has multiple killrights open against him and his "crimes" are so egregious and the bounty on him so high that it becomes worthwhile to do so. In which case, yeah... so? Sounds like you really didn't read. I'm saying that if purchased killrights worked both ways (like 1 on 1 wardecs[no defense allies, ofc]), 5 guys could buy killrights against one and work together to kill him, while the target can't get meaningful help from his allies. That's the advantage killright purchasers would have over their targets. I'm just saying why disallow the hunted from hunting the hunter?
At this stage the only advice I can give is that if you're such a bad PvPer that hunting you is "risk free", then you should perhaps try another profession. MatrixSkye Mk2: "Remember: You consent to unconsensual PVP the moment you press the "Undock" button." |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
4793
|
Posted - 2012.10.03 21:53:00 -
[32] - Quote
CCP Punkturis wrote:Pipa and Poetic are my alts, everybody knows that!
You are a bad person!
(We need more like you)
MatrixSkye Mk2: "Remember: You consent to unconsensual PVP the moment you press the "Undock" button." |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
4793
|
Posted - 2012.10.03 21:54:00 -
[33] - Quote
CCP Punkturis wrote:did you see the team photo? don't these faces say "trust us!"?
SO MUCH TRUST
brbr cancelling all my bank cards MatrixSkye Mk2: "Remember: You consent to unconsensual PVP the moment you press the "Undock" button." |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
4794
|
Posted - 2012.10.03 22:31:00 -
[34] - Quote
Poetic Stanziel wrote: Next time, read the OP.
Hi there, I see you're new to these forums
Let me show you around
MatrixSkye Mk2: "Remember: You consent to unconsensual PVP the moment you press the "Undock" button." |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
4840
|
Posted - 2012.10.07 21:55:00 -
[35] - Quote
Morn Hylund wrote:What a complete fookover of high-sec industry and weighted toward all the alliances with buttloads of money. You can now target anyone you like and screw up their game permanently.
Way to go CCP. I'll be signing off from this latest stupidity with my multiple accounts as soon as you guys put this piece of sh**T through.
How is this a "fookover" of hi-sec industry? Are you the 4th or 5th person in this thread to assume that simply putting a bounty on someone makes them a legal target? MatrixSkye Mk2: "Remember: You consent to unconsensual PVP the moment you press the "Undock" button." |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
4846
|
Posted - 2012.10.08 06:34:00 -
[36] - Quote
Darth Gustav wrote:Gogela wrote:I'm going to put bounties on empire mining corps. For mining ships. Just cuz. Good call. Can we put bounties on NPC Corps, too? How about bounties on Mackinaws? I'd buy that for a dollar.
The idea is that you'll be able to put a bounty on anyone you like. But merely putting a bounty on someone won't mean that you can freely attack them; they still have to have -5 sec status, a GCC, a wardec, or an active killright which you have acquired for you to attack them without CONCORD interference.
Still waiting for whatsisname on the last page to explain how this "fooks over" hi-sec industrialists. MatrixSkye Mk2: "Remember: You consent to unconsensual PVP the moment you press the "Undock" button." |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
4846
|
Posted - 2012.10.08 06:57:00 -
[37] - Quote
Darth Gustav wrote:Malcanis wrote:Darth Gustav wrote:Gogela wrote:I'm going to put bounties on empire mining corps. For mining ships. Just cuz. Good call. Can we put bounties on NPC Corps, too? How about bounties on Mackinaws? I'd buy that for a dollar. The idea is that you'll be able to put a bounty on anyone you like. But merely putting a bounty on someone won't mean that you can freely attack them; they still have to have -5 sec status, a GCC, a wardec, or an active killright which you have acquired for you to attack them without CONCORD interference. Still waiting for whatsisname on the last page to explain how this "fooks over" hi-sec industrialists. But bounties on Mackinaws could make them profitable to gank again. Just saying.
As Pipa said, no, not exactly. But it would make for a more efficient & immersive way of subsidising it than using 3rd party killboards. MatrixSkye Mk2: "Remember: You consent to unconsensual PVP the moment you press the "Undock" button." |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
4850
|
Posted - 2012.10.08 12:35:00 -
[38] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote: Now that Tech's been nerfed, who has the motive to put a bounty on Exhumers?
IIRC, GSF made out like bandits on several aspects of the Ice Interdiction. The halving of tech prices will surely only increase their incentive to shake the hi-sec money tree?
MatrixSkye Mk2: "Remember: You consent to unconsensual PVP the moment you press the "Undock" button." |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
4853
|
Posted - 2012.10.08 14:53:00 -
[39] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:Malcanis wrote:Pipa Porto wrote: Now that Tech's been nerfed, who has the motive to put a bounty on Exhumers?
IIRC, GSF made out like bandits on several aspects of the Ice Interdiction. The halving of tech prices will surely only increase their incentive to shake the hi-sec money tree? Market manip writ large works, but given the amount of ships they had to kill to do it and the losses they would have to incur in ships, I'm not sure how profitable it would be. But I don't have the stats on how much it would have cost them, so I dunno. Besides, those weren't bounty ops. That's why they were able to focus so intensely on the Ice belts.
They weren't bounty ops per se, but they were offering full reimburse to their own members who in addition had the opportunity to loot and salvage. So it more or less equates to the same deal.
I guess we'd need corestwo or someone to comment on whether it could be profitable at the current "low" price of Tech. Of course, his making a reply would in turn affect the potential for profit, so I'm not sure his reply could be relied upon to be objective. MatrixSkye Mk2: "Remember: You consent to unconsensual PVP the moment you press the "Undock" button." |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
4858
|
Posted - 2012.10.09 08:16:00 -
[40] - Quote
Karrl Tian wrote:Malcanis wrote:
The idea is that you'll be able to put a bounty on anyone you like. But merely putting a bounty on someone won't mean that you can freely attack them; they still have to have -5 sec status, a GCC, a wardec, or an active killright which you have acquired for you to attack them without CONCORD interference.
Kind of kills the point of an overhaul then and makes a mockery of the "consequences" effect. Who deserves a bounty more: the pirates who zap newbs, consensual pvper's and the occassional hauler in lowsec or the +5 guys who AWOX and take corp assets "legally"? Oh, and the neutral/NPC hauler/logistic/scout alts too. Bounties hunters in fiction go after guys the law can't/won't touch and smugglers played by Harrison Ford.
No it doesn't. If the guy who ~smugged~ about ripping off your corp ship hangar has +5 sec (and in any case used an alt to do it), then his sec status is irrelevent. But after his crime is revealed, even if he sells or abandons that alt, you can still track him down and put a big enough bounty on him that he's worth attacking if he ever flies anything remotely expensive.
And being that type of person, he's likely to incur killrights from other people. So let's say Corpy McThiefy steals 50 bill worth of stuff from TrustingCorp. Corpy trololols off in his pimp new ships that TrustingCorp paid for. TrustingCorp puts a large bounty on Corpy. Killrights on Corpy are now valuable commodities. If corpy does anything to incurr a killright, then bounty hunters are going to be very keen to acquire and use that killright on Corpy while he's in his A-type tanked Nightmare.
Of course, Corpy could be sensible, and live a life of virtue, avoiding any situations where he incurs a killright. But that's a pretty significant restriction on the playstyle of people like that. MatrixSkye Mk2: "Remember: You consent to unconsensual PVP the moment you press the "Undock" button." |
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