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Soul Reaver
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Posted - 2003.07.04 06:21:00 -
[1]
Hello All
You know I read these posts almost daily and am constantly amazed at the vehemence directed towards others over what is essentially a GAME. Yes folks beleive it or not its a game its not real its fiction it doesnt even matter to be honest. Its a place to escape from daily life :) Its also meant to be a roleplaying game. Now what is a roleplaying game and how does it differ from a normal game. It appears a lot of the players in EVE have no idea what a roleplaying game actually is! This is born out by their constant moaning and whining on these boards. So to enlighten some of you a tad here goes.
Roleplaying Dictionary definition =
To assume or represent in a drama; act out a role or character. Develop a character not inside ones normal sphere of personality.
v. intr.
To assume or act out a particular role: ôWhen I hire people I role-play with them... to see how they take pressureö (Peter Schrag).
So to act out a role or to play a character that differs from ones normal character in real life.
Now this is the intersting part here. If Role Play is about acting out or playing a character then that means I can legitimatly play an evil character within the bounds of the roleplay game! I can just as legitimatly play a good character to (sometimes do) Ahh but I cant can I? As soon as I step in to play an evil charatcter I will get flamed (and have been) for being a malcontent a misfit in real life, compared to terrorists the list goes on. I could get accused of being a 12 year old (Im 39 and owen 3 dot coms) of having a deprived childhood (have a loving family)the list goes on and on. It appears to me that in online so called role playing games I am allowed to play anything I like as long as it
A Does not upset other players B cannot be classed as griefing (whatever that is in terms of playing games) C Is not classed as PK or PvP
Now this causes me as a roleplayer several problems in terms of roleplaying games. Here we have an attitude that is frankly not roleplay and has no place in a roleplaying environment. So why do we insist on calling these games roleplaying games when they are not? Let me put it this way. If I am playing a good chartacter in a roleplaying game, part of my characters personality is to hate and loathe evil characters (in game) Of course I dont hate them really in real life (as some of you do) Secretly even in game I enjoy them! Of course for without them my life as a good character would have no meaning or definition and would be boring (in game) So we have balance and much fun. If I lose everything I own (in game) to an evil player I understand as an adult that it is part of roleplay and rebuild it to fight another day with said evil charatcter. Several things are created for me in the game environemnt in this process.
Fear Uncertainty Loss Anger Revenge
These are the emotions we seek when playing a roleplaying game and in essence its what roleplaying games are for. To create these feelings within us when we play the game. These emotions are usually only created by other players however. I have yet to be fearfull of an encounter with an NPC charatcter to be honest or indeed uncertain of an asteroid either! Player characters create these feelings within us. Now as can be seen from the two distinct camps on these boards there are what is commonly known as the
CareBears and the Pirates
I dont think there is a third camp but I might be wrong. The carebears will hate me for even daring to mention these topics and thats fine because I hate you both in game and out of it to probably :) You have no balanace to be honest and clearly do not understand a roleplaying game in its truest form :) However you will win as you always do. In every online roleplaying game I have played over the past 10 years you have always won with your constant whining and moaning and complaining about PK this and griefer that. You are incessant in your battle to produce safe sims with no risk whatsoever to your silly in game characters. As if in some way these characters and the things they own are important in some way! I did have hope for this game as it clearly stated it was a roleplaying game with Player V Player fighting in mind. Sadly this will not be the case :( One month from release and already its so cozy and safe out there in space. God I can even play the game on auto pilot away from my computer. I have no
Fear Uncertainty Loss Anger Revenge
This will just get worse and worse as the die is already cast as it always is in favour of the so called role playing community! What a laugh that is. A real roleplaying community would accept and understand that you need sp called griefers (still dont understand that term) and evil players in game to create the feelings of
Fear Uncertainty Loss Anger Revenge
that you are playing the roleplaying game for in the first place! So this is why I say roleplaying is dead and gone.
Edited by: Be you a Pirate or a Simple Alt creeper! Sooner or later you'll dance with Soul Reaver and His Amazing Underpants
Currently chasing Lianhaun |
Soul Reaver
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Posted - 2003.07.04 06:26:00 -
[2]
You want no fear or undertaintly when you play! You want no loss and no anger either. So why do you want to play roleplaying games if you cannot understand the concept of it and also its needs to survive? This is a simple question really. Why not just buy Sim city or railroad tycoon if thats all you want from your games? Years ago I played red laert on cases ladder. AT the time I was 9th in the world out of over 50 thousand players. The top 100 of us were constantly accused by lesser gaming mortals of cheating and using exploits to win. We knew at the top that we had clearly defined building strategys etc that unless you knew them you had no chance of winning (exploit) No of course not we had played the game and learnt to win. However losers in games never accept this! You are always classed as a cheat or griefer or evil or a misfit bit like here really. So CareBears you will win by removing all
Fear Uncertainty Loss Anger Revenge
from this game and indeed players like me who delight in PvP! However you will also lose as we will all leave and you will be left with yet another boring empty game. Enjoy
Dont bother to reply as to be honest I couldnt give a rats arse what your opinon is.
I also hope Moo kills and griefs all of you for as long as they can before they leave :) Be you a Pirate or a Simple Alt creeper! Sooner or later you'll dance with Soul Reaver and His Amazing Underpants
Currently chasing Lianhaun |
MoonDragn
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Posted - 2003.07.04 06:34:00 -
[3]
They did not take away your ability to kill people. They just removed you from empire space. So what if the people out of empire space are as well equiped as you? Why do pirates think that killing an industrial is a challenge?
Its fine to role play an evil character. Do it within logical means. True evil pirates do not camp at a popular location. They come out of the darkness and ambush unsuspecting tourists. That is the way it should be.
You talk about roleplaying but you obviously don't understand the concept at all.
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Loviatar
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Posted - 2003.07.04 06:57:00 -
[4]
You are the true griefer. The only fear you find in this game is when a player is about to come out of warp lag and kill you before you can finish him off.
This 3rd camp you don't think is out there are the ppl who want to fight against other players where both sides are doing the shooting.
If you're really "all that" and someone with true skills leave the gates and the newb killing and go hunt the low sec corps.
I laugh when you losers say there is no one in 0.0 space. There are lots of them out there easy to find...just use the map, it's not like they can hide. The only reason you don't is because they are not easy pray.
Carebears win because the ppl who want to fight your style of PvP are too afraid to fight each other and gang up on the easy meal. Funny how in 10 years of playing you haven't figured that out yet.
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Zeknichov
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Posted - 2003.07.04 06:58:00 -
[5]
I didn't even read your post but I agree Roleplaying is dead unless it's enforced.
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Soul Reaver
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Posted - 2003.07.04 07:04:00 -
[6]
I knew that would wind you up :) and that some of you just couldnt help yourselves but to reply :) How predictable. And the same old tired replys to how quaint!!
Still all true though.
PS
Lovey (ha ha) you know nothing of my play style in this game. I have never camped a gate in this game yet :) We do hunt in all sorts of places in a small group of 4 players. This was not the point of my post which as usual has gone right over the heads of the less intelectual amongst us :)
Edited by: Soul Reaver on 04/07/2003 07:10:47 Be you a Pirate or a Simple Alt creeper! Sooner or later you'll dance with Soul Reaver and His Amazing Underpants
Currently chasing Lianhaun |
Loviatar
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Posted - 2003.07.04 07:08:00 -
[7]
yes you played us like a fiddle...what fools we all are. You typed almost a full page just to see ppl call you a moron.
I can see why after 10 years of playing you still don't have a clue.
GG
Edited by: Loviatar on 04/07/2003 07:10:01
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Bas Rutten
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Posted - 2003.07.04 07:13:00 -
[8]
Soul, I have to agree with you on most parts. I am not a pirate, that¦s what I have to say at first, still going combat yet into more or less the opposite direction from piracy (only more or less though, sounds creepy huh? No further explanation as this isn¦t the topic here). K, where did I stop? Oh yah, I think from a roleplayer¦s view on things, you¦re absolutely right concerning the bad guy/good guy thing - and I see it as an essential part of piracy to indeed hunt for indies ... to indeed pick easy prey. It¦s only logical ... when you make a living on that, you don¦t seek something to remind you of your own mortality do yah? What have pirates couple centuries ago been doing all across the open sea? Run head first into armed-to-the-teeth spanish armada? Or did they rather look for mercenaries and their cargo? Ask yourself, Moon. And ask yourself where you find that ... still regarding the real world ... near popular seaports? Or 3000 miles away from any coast? And still concerning realism (make that a "believable" world in Sci-Fi terms) I have to admit that in deed the Empires in EVE, if I look at it in logical terms, would try and defend their valuable treasury and their peaceful inhabitants. Does that go along? It could if it was really balanced, meaning that a pirate corp should not be able to camp gates in imperial space for days and days, but at least for a little while ... or run in and out for raids, which I have to agree on with you Moon. But both options should be available ... and no matter how much I dislike any camping in any game (damn snipetards in BF 1942 ... F*** U lol), in EVE it¦s 1) something that makes sense 2) something that becomes known very soon and 3) maybe the only really lucrative thing for the profession of a pirate.
Regarding griefing .. isn¦t it that griefers are considered guys who draw their fun out of ruining other ppl¦s gaming experience? That goes for both sides, carebears and PKers. Howso? Some things that happened couple weeks ago when PC pirates went to noob systems to pod em just for the hell of it ... that IS griefing in my view ... cause here we go with another reality/roleplaying check: why should a serious pirate kill noobs which one day could bring him loads of isk as an indy pilot? The reason for that escapes me ... although I know the reason well, go figure ;) The flip side however is when TONS of ppl complain about each and every aspect of PvP in a game ... that IS griefing too. Why? Cause with time passing by, those tons of carebears (wonder where they all come from actually ... never played any other game then Sim City b4? You know what I mean, don¦t comment on that remark plz) actually RUIN the gameplay for those who in deed want to fight ... and not only against npc opponents. Hence if I wanted to do that all the damn time, I¦d go play a single player game of my choice (add your fave here).
Both sides have to agree there is a flip side to everything ... and you can¦t continuosly demand more and more setbacks for the pirates ... however pirates THEN should in deed ROLEPLAY and not run around like a damn bunch of psychos and show some respect to the terms of roleplaying. Hence ... in EVE, you don¦t show what a bad ass mofo you are by podkilling tons of ppl and showcasing their corpses ... it only shows that you play longer then some other guys and thus had the time to train combat skills decently and figure out the perfect weapon setup, that¦s all.
And after all ... this is nothing but a friggin game, dig it finally ppl! ____________________________________
Deny the Urge - brutal Death from Germoney
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Callas
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Posted - 2003.07.04 07:13:00 -
[9]
Rollplay doesn't happen in MMORPGs.
This is normal. Whether or not it's desireable is another question.
-- Callas
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Bas Rutten
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Posted - 2003.07.04 07:22:00 -
[10]
Hm this time I¦ll keep it shorter .. did anyone here really READ what Soul was writing? Do you guys REALLY want to fly 100 jumps while being afk? Is that what you want to spend your money on? I can¦t believe it ... allright CCP, go for it, take PvP out completely ... and we¦ll see how fast EVE will go down the drain. ____________________________________
Deny the Urge - brutal Death from Germoney
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Soul Reaver
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Posted - 2003.07.04 07:30:00 -
[11]
Thankyou for the contsructive comments Bas and I agree that to lkill noobs is not in the roleplaying evil guys interest unless of course he is roleplaying a psychotic pirate (which could be legitimate in RP terms) my points were that a lot of players in this game do ineed want it to be some sort of single player experience whicvh is very very sad indeed.
PS
Lovey. I am not a Moron actually I am real life millionaire who employs idiots like you Moron :)
Be you a Pirate or a Simple Alt creeper! Sooner or later you'll dance with Soul Reaver and His Amazing Underpants
Currently chasing Lianhaun |
DarkRift
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Posted - 2003.07.04 07:40:00 -
[12]
Yeah, the roleplay element is sorely missing from this game. There are some that do and do it well. Most, however, could care less and play the mechanics of the game rather than the story.
Perhaps it is a lack of background material to base a sci-fi character on. This does not mean the Eve background story since that is far too "recent" and "shallow". This is more from sci-fi lore in general. There just doesn't seem to be a good selection of archetypes to choose from. Hard to say...
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MoonDragn
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Posted - 2003.07.04 07:43:00 -
[13]
The point of pvp is to find challenging opponents. Do those of you that play counterstrike find it challenging to fight newbies or experienced groups?
The point of role-playing involves WILLING participants. I think thats the main point you are missing here. Those victims were definately not willing.
In any kind of game, you need to provide enjoyment to BOTH sides of the coin. While a pirate may find being evil and terrorizing newbies fun. It isn't fun for the newbies. They just started the game and have not even learned how to use the map correctly yet much less defend themselves.
Pirates who raid OUTSIDE of empire space however will meet challenging opponents. They are prepared usually for the worse and can provide a interesting fight. Why not roleplay with them?
Anybody who looks at the map will see there are a TON of people outside of empire space. You guys complain that newbies should have looked at the map before they ran into the pirate. Well the same now goes for pirates. They should use the map to find victims instead of whining about how all their prey is gone.
As for the guy who mentioned raiding 3000 miles from major seaports. They certainly did not stick around in the same area day and night because sooner or later a military force would take them out. That is realism. Pirates camped passari for weeks without any kind of response. That to me is not realism.
I am not a carebear. I actually do have a very high IQ. To me your attitude and responses tell me that while you may be intelligent. You certainly lack wisdom.
Edited by: MoonDragn on 04/07/2003 07:44:42
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Bas Rutten
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Posted - 2003.07.04 07:44:00 -
[14]
Hm archetypes ... maybe it just takes a while for everyone to find his role in the game ... although I think ppl should find a hint on that during character creation.
And concerning that psychopathic killer stuff ... in deed, why shouldn¦t ppl do so instead of real pirating (although it might be pretty expensive over the time). However ... I¦d like em to be in-game psychos only and gather their "front-of-the-screen" senses and for god¦s sake leave the noob sectors alone at least.
Hey Moon ... you should really read posts more closely ... I said something similar to: camping in higher sec systems should be possible, but not for days and days ... look that up for verification plz... :s
Edited by: Bas Rutten on 04/07/2003 07:45:58 ____________________________________
Deny the Urge - brutal Death from Germoney
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Soul Reaver
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Posted - 2003.07.04 07:51:00 -
[15]
Bit off topic but what has Wisdom
wisÀdom Audio pronunciation of wisdom ( P ) Pronunciation Key (wzdm) n.
1. The ability to discern or judge what is true, right, or lasting; insight. 2. Common sense; good judgment: ôIt is a characteristic of wisdom not to do desperate thingsö (Henry David Thoreau). 3. 1. The sum of learning through the ages; knowledge: ôIn those homely sayings was couched the collective wisdom of generationsö (Maya Angelou). 2. Wise teachings of the ancient sages. 4. A wise outlook, plan, or course of action.
Got to do with what I was trying to explain about roleplaying ROFL LOL PMSL
Some people do like to take these things way of topic dont they :)
Be you a Pirate or a Simple Alt creeper! Sooner or later you'll dance with Soul Reaver and His Amazing Underpants
Currently chasing Lianhaun |
Quid
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Posted - 2003.07.04 07:57:00 -
[16]
Let me get this straight...
"RolePlaying Is Dead" because the care bears object to your depredations with the same "fear, uncertainty, whatever" that they don't have because, um, they don't wanna be pirates?
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Trauts
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Posted - 2003.07.04 07:59:00 -
[17]
Well most of what u said i agree with, roleplaying would be more fun than just playing the way most of us do, but u gotta remember that its hard to roleplay when u have to deal with bugs and such every 5 min. "Ill be right back, gotta go to sleep for 2 min so i can use my map again." The most fun ive had playing eve has been when the blockades were in place in empire space and there was a real threat of getting podded on my routes. I dont agree with the shady tactics some pirates have used in the past, but big bad people are what makes the game fun. I think im in that 3rd category of peps who are neither pirates or carebears, and for the most part this patch was going in the right direction but without pirates in empire space things will be boring for sure.
2004.10.24 19:06:00 combat Your Ion Blaster Cannon I perfectly strikes Tank CEO [D-C], wrecking for 599.9 damage. |
Soul Reaver
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Posted - 2003.07.04 08:01:00 -
[18]
No Quid
You entirley missed the point im sorry to say. please get an education and then re-read my post before you attempt to reply :)
Be you a Pirate or a Simple Alt creeper! Sooner or later you'll dance with Soul Reaver and His Amazing Underpants
Currently chasing Lianhaun |
Bas Rutten
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Posted - 2003.07.04 08:02:00 -
[19]
Well Quid ... I as a non-pirate want to have the feeling to be inside of a believable world ... have you ever read some of the background for EVE. There have been wars referring to the background ... even slavery ... so one might say the EVE universe is maybe not the nicest place to be in, yet surely not the worst ... it should be somewhere in between what I kinda feel it is or at least was (we have yet to see...). Someone once said ... there is a main difference between reality and fiction ... fiction has to make sense. ____________________________________
Deny the Urge - brutal Death from Germoney
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Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.07.04 08:03:00 -
[20]
After spending 35 jumps from Germinate to Heimatar...on autopilot...in a reaper...reading a book...carrying blueprints...
CCP went too frelling far satifying the furbearing members of this playerbase.
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
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Soul Reaver
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Posted - 2003.07.04 08:04:00 -
[21]
Trauts
This is exactly my point :) You play neither pirate nor an overly good carebare type and yet you will miss the fear and uncertainty the so called griefers cause! as such you will end up with a lesser gaming experience because of it until you finally get bored and leave the game altogether.
Be you a Pirate or a Simple Alt creeper! Sooner or later you'll dance with Soul Reaver and His Amazing Underpants
Currently chasing Lianhaun |
Quid
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Posted - 2003.07.04 08:07:00 -
[22]
Uh huh. Soul Reaver, next time you decide to engage in verbal ************, try not to ejaculate all over the boards. It really takes attention away from the people who are actually trying to, you know, say stuff.
EDIT: Bas - I agree with you. Space does seem pretty empty right now, but I really don't think you can blame the "carebears" for not wanting to get blown up by the likes of Soul Reaver. For the love of Bridget, pirates, if you wanted life to be easy, you should've been a miner! Rise to the occasion and stop whining!
Edited by: Quid on 04/07/2003 08:13:58
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Bas Rutten
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Posted - 2003.07.04 08:08:00 -
[23]
Here is a little example on how my corp and I play ... not very often in character, but we have fun together ... that is not the issue right now though. We don¦t play like ... hoooorrraayy, here we come! Hey, we got 5 noob cruits ... let¦s go to 0.0 space and mine a bit of bistot there. Oh, couple ships got lost? Damn griefers, damn pirates, CCP TAKE THAT OUT NOW!
I wonder who does that or similar stuff and thinks to get away with it?!? Couple weeks ago we learned a lesson and learned it well ... moving onwards step by step now ... to achieve our goals. Sometimes a roleplaying game demands some brains as well huh guys and gals? ____________________________________
Deny the Urge - brutal Death from Germoney
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MoonDragn
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Posted - 2003.07.04 08:13:00 -
[24]
Anybody can use a dictionary Soulreaver, what does your definition of wisdom have to do with anything?
You ask me what wisdom has to do with Role-playing? Well about as much as Eve has to do with Role-playing. Where on the box did it say it was a Role-playing game? If it was on there I must have missed it.
This is an online social game. In any social game there are rules to follow and you try not to interfere with somebody else's fun. Theres a middle of the road between carebear and griefing. If you can find that road Eve can certainly be enjoyable.
True role-playing involves immersion into the role of what you are playing. The one playing the pirate has to think to himself, "what is my motivation?". "Why do I kill people?".
Most times its for profit and money. Like you said, unless they are totally psychotic, you don't go around killing innocent people for fun. An organized group of psychotic people going around killing for fun? That is almost unheard of.
Perhaps if pirates made it enjoyable without exploiting any of the bugs in the game. Those playing the game would have enjoyed it more. But using a bug to gain advantage? That is just griefing.
I am sorry some of the true role-playing pirates had to suffer the consequences of the patch. Blame it on your fellow psychotic pirates. Not on the carebears. We're all just here to have fun.
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Soul Reaver
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Posted - 2003.07.04 08:18:00 -
[25]
Quid
Exactly what I expected from you :) Whatever!!
Moon
I beleive its actually a MMORPG
A Massivly Multiplayer online ROLEPLAYING game is it not?? Correct me if im wrong here but I did actually expect it to be a roleplaying game with good and also evil greifer characters in it!
Be you a Pirate or a Simple Alt creeper! Sooner or later you'll dance with Soul Reaver and His Amazing Underpants
Currently chasing Lianhaun |
MoonDragn
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Posted - 2003.07.04 08:29:00 -
[26]
From the main page "EVE: The Second Genesis, is a massively multiplayer, online, persistent world game. perhaps even too real to be called a game, but definitely more fun than reality. Played on the Net, it takes place in a world that is alive and kicking every day, every hour. Players are spaceship captains cruising around the universe, trading, fighting and communicating with other players. "
So where is the role playing? Apparently we're trying to simulate reality. So get real. Psychotic killers in the real world are hunted down and given the death penalty.
The consequences of action is reaction. To react is to proceed in a logical manner suitable to the happiness as a whole. To be part of disruption is to achieve chaos in a world that never lived without it.
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Ushtara Killbob
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Posted - 2007.09.21 04:51:00 -
[27]
arise my minion
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Dapanman1
Amarr Beets and Gravy Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.09.21 04:54:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Ushtara Killbob arise my minion
Seventh tonight, your fourth, die in a fire. Beets, you're among friends. |
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Kaemonn
Forum Moderator
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Posted - 2007.09.21 05:04:00 -
[29]
Click.
forum rules | [email protected]| Eve-CCG
Originally by: kieron: off duty You dont have to swallow!
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