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Fryhilda
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
2
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Posted - 2012.12.01 18:38:00 -
[1] - Quote
I'd like to know how you all feel about the Tengu now that HAMs and HMLs are being somehwat rebalanced. Going by the current information available to you, you have 3 main options, and I'd love to know what everyone's gonna be doing.
1) Keep using HML Tengu 2) Use HAM Tengu 3) Leave Tengu altogether
I am going to use the forum's "Like" feature to make a sort of pseudo-poll. Note that I can see who likes a post so if you like all three I can easily see that and discard your "opinion".
LIKE this post for option 1) Keep using HML Tengu |
Fryhilda
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
2
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Posted - 2012.12.01 18:38:00 -
[2] - Quote
LIKE this post for option 2) Use HAM Tengu |
Fryhilda
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
2
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Posted - 2012.12.01 18:38:00 -
[3] - Quote
LIKE this post for option 3) Leave Tengu altogether |
Fryhilda
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
2
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Posted - 2012.12.01 18:39:00 -
[4] - Quote
Thanks very much to those that respond |
Bloody Wench
248
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Posted - 2012.12.02 14:40:00 -
[5] - Quote
That's a cunning way to farm likes!
I liked it. |
Mra Rednu
Black Watch Guard
139
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Posted - 2012.12.02 21:55:00 -
[6] - Quote
Or option 4) Laugh at all the people crying cause they thought their sweet little Tengu was the best thing to do missions with ( it won't be, it never was) and now their life is over. |
Daniel Plain
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
463
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Posted - 2012.12.03 03:07:00 -
[7] - Quote
Mra Rednu wrote: Or option 4) Laugh at all the people crying cause they thought their sweet little Tengu was the best thing to do missions with ( it won't be, it never was) and now their life is over. false. there are several missions where tengu is objectively the best ship. there probably won't be any left come retribution.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings" -MXZF |
Mra Rednu
Black Watch Guard
141
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Posted - 2012.12.03 08:03:00 -
[8] - Quote
Daniel Plain wrote:Mra Rednu wrote: Or option 4) Laugh at all the people crying cause they thought their sweet little Tengu was the best thing to do missions with ( it won't be, it never was) and now their life is over. false. there are several missions where tengu is objectively the best ship. there probably won't be any left come retribution.
No sorry my statement is true, you are just talking of the odd worthless mission you blitz, I am talking about missioning properly, ie killing the best missions and blitzing/turning down the rubbish. |
steejans nix
0beron Construct
11
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Posted - 2012.12.03 08:11:00 -
[9] - Quote
Mra Rednu wrote:Daniel Plain wrote:Mra Rednu wrote: Or option 4) Laugh at all the people crying cause they thought their sweet little Tengu was the best thing to do missions with ( it won't be, it never was) and now their life is over. false. there are several missions where tengu is objectively the best ship. there probably won't be any left come retribution. No sorry my statement is true, you are just talking of the odd worthless mission you blitz, I am talking about missioning properly, ie killing the best missions and blitzing/turning down the rubbish.
This, a properly fitted BS would earn more over the course of a mission session than a Tengu, anyone who say's otherwise is a idiot, Troll or both. |
Daniel Plain
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
464
|
Posted - 2012.12.03 11:41:00 -
[10] - Quote
Mra Rednu wrote:Daniel Plain wrote:Mra Rednu wrote: Or option 4) Laugh at all the people crying cause they thought their sweet little Tengu was the best thing to do missions with ( it won't be, it never was) and now their life is over. false. there are several missions where tengu is objectively the best ship. there probably won't be any left come retribution. No sorry my statement is true, you are just talking of the odd worthless mission you blitz, I am talking about missioning properly, ie killing the best missions and blitzing/turning down the rubbish. you did not discriminate against blitzing in your original statement. also, dismissing the blitzable missions as 'odd' and 'worthless' does not add to your argument.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings" -MXZF |
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Mra Rednu
Black Watch Guard
144
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Posted - 2012.12.03 12:34:00 -
[11] - Quote
Daniel Plain wrote:Mra Rednu wrote:Daniel Plain wrote:Mra Rednu wrote: Or option 4) Laugh at all the people crying cause they thought their sweet little Tengu was the best thing to do missions with ( it won't be, it never was) and now their life is over. false. there are several missions where tengu is objectively the best ship. there probably won't be any left come retribution. No sorry my statement is true, you are just talking of the odd worthless mission you blitz, I am talking about missioning properly, ie killing the best missions and blitzing/turning down the rubbish. you did not discriminate against blitzing in your original statement. also, dismissing the blitzable missions as 'odd' and 'worthless' does not add to your argument.
No i did not discriminate against blitzing of for killing for bounty either, I clearly said the Tengu was not the best thing to do missions with and it is not, isk per hour a BS will outdo a Tengu.
Also I do not need to add to my argument as I was not making an argument, I stated a fact. |
Caitlyn Tufy
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact
42
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Posted - 2012.12.03 14:11:00 -
[12] - Quote
Hehe, another of the Tengu vs. Galaxy threads :p
OP, neither. I use a number of ships, from cruiser to battleship sizes, Tengu being among them. As such, I am honestly looking forward to Retribution. It is true that my beloved strategic cruiser will lose some of its ranged power, but in turn, it gets a very viable short range arsenal. Oh, the possibilities! :D |
Daniel Plain
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
467
|
Posted - 2012.12.03 14:29:00 -
[13] - Quote
Mra Rednu wrote:Daniel Plain wrote:Mra Rednu wrote:Daniel Plain wrote:Mra Rednu wrote: Or option 4) Laugh at all the people crying cause they thought their sweet little Tengu was the best thing to do missions with ( it won't be, it never was) and now their life is over. false. there are several missions where tengu is objectively the best ship. there probably won't be any left come retribution. No sorry my statement is true, you are just talking of the odd worthless mission you blitz, I am talking about missioning properly, ie killing the best missions and blitzing/turning down the rubbish. you did not discriminate against blitzing in your original statement. also, dismissing the blitzable missions as 'odd' and 'worthless' does not add to your argument. No i did not discriminate against blitzing of for killing for bounty either, I clearly said the Tengu was not the best thing to do missions with and it is not, isk per hour a BS will outdo a Tengu. Also I do not need to add to my argument as I was not making an argument, I stated a fact. a claim is not a fact. you have to provide arguments to support it. the fact of the matter is that there are missions that are best done in a tengu, which by definition means that it is the best ship for these missions. if you are doing missions 'properly', you are probably aware that you can not only switch between blitzing and grinding but also between ship hulls.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings" -MXZF |
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
16
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Posted - 2012.12.03 19:01:00 -
[14] - Quote
Mra Rednu wrote: Or option 4) Laugh at all the people crying cause they thought their sweet little Tengu was the best thing to do missions with ( it won't be, it never was) and now their life is over.
This is true, Tengus were not good to clean missions but for blitz. Of course it's better with Tengu than Drake but doesn't mean either it's a good mission ship when vargurs/machariels can clean everything off the field faster than any billions fitted Tengu.
However imho, after retribution it will still be the best ship for blitz: sign tank, speed tank and hit a decent range enough to kill the trigger and move on. |
Solomar Espersei
Quality Assurance
237
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Posted - 2012.12.03 19:24:00 -
[15] - Quote
I've always felt that the Nighthawk is a bit overlooked and underrated when compared to the blitzing Tengu. The mission speed should be similar at a fraction of the cost. Consider:
1. Nighthawk's drone bay makes webbing/scramming frigs far less of a priority so no wasting time on those things as you usually MUST w/ your Tengu. 2. No one is really ever likely try a suicide gank on your Nighthawk while Tengus die on the undock and after a gate jump with alarming frequency. The fact that most missioners refuse to simply T2 fit their Tengu and instead pile on the bling doesn't help matters. 3. The Nighthawk is cheap as chips compared to a Tengu. For the cost of the average mission running Tengu that I see, you could easily buy 3 Nighthawks.
Just something to think about. Quality Assurance RECRUITING OPEN https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=176314&find=unread |
unidenify
State Protectorate Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2012.12.04 20:13:00 -
[16] - Quote
Solomar Espersei wrote:I've always felt that the Nighthawk is a bit overlooked and underrated when compared to the blitzing Tengu. The mission speed should be similar at a fraction of the cost. Consider:
1. Nighthawk's drone bay makes webbing/scramming frigs far less of a priority so no wasting time on those things as you usually MUST w/ your Tengu. 2. No one is really ever likely try a suicide gank on your Nighthawk while Tengus die on the undock and after a gate jump with alarming frequency. The fact that most missioners refuse to simply T2 fit their Tengu and instead pile on the bling doesn't help matters. 3. The Nighthawk is cheap as chips compared to a Tengu. For the cost of the average mission running Tengu that I see, you could easily buy 3 Nighthawks.
Just something to think about.
I would love to train to use nighthawk however I hate this hull and has faint hope that miracle will occur and change Nighthawk to Drake hull instead Ferox. |
Angsty Teenager
Broski North Black Legion.
78
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Posted - 2012.12.05 06:39:00 -
[17] - Quote
Just so everybody knows, the tengu was and still pretty much is the best ship for missioning in terms of isk per hour.
No--not because of it's dps, which was/is very good, but because of it's significant range, speed, align time, and ability to do missions anywhere.
The mach comes somewhat close in terms of ability. As it stands right now, there is still no reason not to use the tengu for what it was best for prepatch--mission blitzing to farm LP. You lost some dps (barely any tbh), and some range, which was never an issue in the first place, and now is only a minor consideration.
If you want to kill bounties (lol @ the guy saying this is the proper way to mission), BS have historically, and will always be better because of the simple fact that they have higher dps than the tengu.
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Angsty Teenager
Broski North Black Legion.
78
|
Posted - 2012.12.05 06:41:00 -
[18] - Quote
Solomar Espersei wrote:I've always felt that the Nighthawk is a bit overlooked and underrated when compared to the blitzing Tengu. The mission speed should be similar at a fraction of the cost. Consider:
1. Nighthawk's drone bay makes webbing/scramming frigs far less of a priority so no wasting time on those things as you usually MUST w/ your Tengu. 2. No one is really ever likely try a suicide gank on your Nighthawk while Tengus die on the undock and after a gate jump with alarming frequency. The fact that most missioners refuse to simply T2 fit their Tengu and instead pile on the bling doesn't help matters. 3. The Nighthawk is cheap as chips compared to a Tengu. For the cost of the average mission running Tengu that I see, you could easily buy 3 Nighthawks.
Just something to think about.
Except frigs are not an issue for the tengu, faction missiles (and now precision after this patch) could dispatch them very quickly. Furthermore suicide ganking is not a reason not to fly the tengu as nobody suicide ganks T2 fit tengus and we're not talking about retards here. In addition, the nighthawk requires significantly more SP investment to even fly, much less with perfect ship skills than the tengu does. The tengu overall is a better ship and the nighthawk is clearly outclassed and is in dire need of a buff. |
Caitlyn Tufy
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact
46
|
Posted - 2012.12.05 06:45:00 -
[19] - Quote
Angsty Teenager wrote:Just so everybody knows, the tengu was and still pretty much is the best ship for missioning in terms of isk per hour.
No--not because of it's dps, which was/is very good, but because of it's significant range, speed, align time, and ability to do missions anywhere.
Not really.
1. Kinetic bonus significantly reduces your potential dps. While it is doubtlessly best to use Mjolnir missiles against EM weak and Scourge against every other rat, it is suboptimal to dedicated ships.
2. Tengu's main advantage is its high speed and the ability to deal with small rats fast. However, not all missions can be blitzed and some have significant amounts of battleship sized targets, which can take a lot longer than a dedicated ship.
It is a great "jack of all trades", but it never was and probably never will be best. |
Bloody Wench
255
|
Posted - 2012.12.05 08:09:00 -
[20] - Quote
Caitlyn Tufy wrote:Angsty Teenager wrote:Just so everybody knows, the tengu was and still pretty much is the best ship for missioning in terms of isk per hour.
No--not because of it's dps, which was/is very good, but because of it's significant range, speed, align time, and ability to do missions anywhere. Not really. 1. Kinetic bonus significantly reduces your potential dps. While it is doubtlessly best to use Mjolnir missiles against EM weak and Scourge against every other rat, it that is suboptimal to dedicated ships. 2. Tengu's main advantage is its high speed and the ability to deal with small rats fast. However, not all missions can be blitzed and some have significant amounts of battleship sized targets, which can take a lot longer than a dedicated ship. It is a great "jack of all trades", but it never was and probably never will be best. That said, the nerf is highly exaggerated about - missile changes didn't considerably reduce Tengu's advantages, while giving it a major boost in form of another viable weapons system.
You're wrong on just about everything here, so that deserves a :golfclap:
The main advantages the tengu has over everything else is it's...well everything.
I don't have to read the mission. I don't have to swap hardeners. I don't have to swap ammo types. Accept, undock, kill everything, complete.
You're talking 12 volleys against an EM weak ship using Kin missiles VS 8 Volleys against a Kin weak Rat. But I didn't waste time looking at the mission on eve-survival, I didn't waste time fuckin about with hardeners, and I didn't waste time making sure I had enough EM ammo.
700+ DPS Kinetic Cap stable & grossly over tanked for anything lvl4's has to offer, while not sacrificing DPS for tank.
Viable weapon systems DO NOT include HAMs in any sense. Having to move or chase NPCs at all to get into range completely fucks completion times.
Why do people insist on speed tanking a tengu? LVL 4s do not have enough DPS to break it.
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Caitlyn Tufy
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact
46
|
Posted - 2012.12.05 09:26:00 -
[21] - Quote
Bloody Wench wrote:You're wrong on just about everything here, so that deserves a :golfclap:
The main advantages the tengu has over everything else is it's...well everything.
I don't have to read the mission. I don't have to swap hardeners. I don't have to swap ammo types. Accept, undock, kill everything, complete.
You're talking 12 volleys against an EM weak ship using Kin missiles VS 8 Volleys against a Kin weak Rat. But I didn't waste time looking at the mission on eve-survival, I didn't waste time fuckin about with hardeners, and I didn't waste time making sure I had enough EM ammo.
700+ DPS Kinetic Cap stable & grossly over tanked for anything lvl4's has to offer, while not sacrificing DPS for tank.
Viable weapon systems DO NOT include HAMs in any sense. Having to move or chase NPCs at all to get into range completely fucks completion times.
Why do people insist on speed tanking a tengu? LVL 4s do not have enough DPS to break it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrjwaqZfjIY
First, I suggest a class in reading comprehension, because reading a mission or swapping hardeners was never mentioned even with a word. A Tengu can tank any level 4 mission with an afterburner and one small (yes, small) shield booster, everything else is purely a safety net. But this misdirection of yours has nothing at all to do with my comment. The cold, hard and PROVEN fact is that the ship does NOT have an optimal damage application to anything but kinetic weak rats. Even more, despite its 25% bonus,EM weapons (Mjolnir) are superior against EM weak rats. If you do not swap your ammo accordingly, you're not using Tengu to its optimal capacity. Even with EM weapons, though, it will be considerably inferior to dedicated EM boats such as Amarr ships.
Furthermore, in spite of its kinetic bonus and all its advantages, several battleships (CNR, Machariel, Nightmare, etc., depending on mission) will finish a number of missions faster than it - sometimes a lot faster, because they will ALWAYS do more damage on larger targets. For instance, a properly equipped CNR will deal 800 dps (minus resists, so around 480 dps) against a Sansha battleship - a Tengu will only pull off 542 (minus resists, around 325 dps) - granted, he'll do that on Cruisers as well, but in a battleship heavy environment, that's a HUGE difference. For comparison, the Scourge (kinetic) Tengu will only deal around 271 dps, an additional 19% dps drop. (Note: the figures are with full level 5 skills and without implants or boosters). As we can see, a kinetic Tengu will finish battleship heavy Sansha mission up to whooping 77% slower than an EM CNR! To give you an additional perspective, we can compare a Nightmare and a Machariel against an Angels mission - the difference in completion times due to simple damage limitations of the former is 40 vs 20 minutes PER MISSION. If you do only 3 of those missions, that's an additional HOUR lost to wrong ship choice.Since I'm at Angels, let's do the same for our CNR vs. Tengu as well - their ships have approximately 70% EM, 40% Explosive, 50% Kinetic and 60% Thermal resists. Obviously, the best choice is Explosive, but due to Tengu's 25% kinetic bonus, that's the logical option, CNR can choose at will. Tengu will deal approximately 339 dps to their battleships, while CNR will deal 480, approximately 41% more. Why then do we not all run in battleships? Because Cruise Missiles will have severe issues hitting anything smaller than a cruiser (and even elite cruisers can be a pain), while a Tengu will still apply enough damage to Frigates. The larger the targets, the more battleships are favoured, the smaller the targets, the better the Tengu is in comparison.
And lastly, you don't need to read anything, the simple name of the mission and enemy's icon will give you all the information you need once you've done them for a while. If you get Guristas, you'll know to use Kinetic, Sansha EM and so on, there's no rocket science to it. Tengu's a great ship, I use it all the time myself, but it's not the be-all-end-all god that some of you seem to hold it for. There are clear and well defined better choices by all objective standards.
So please, next time you accuse me of not knowing what I'm talking about, try to check the facts first. |
Mike Whiite
Cupid Stunts.
86
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Posted - 2012.12.05 10:08:00 -
[22] - Quote
all I saw was a Heavy missile nerf.
Strange people call it a Tengu Nerf.
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Mra Rednu
Black Watch Guard
146
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Posted - 2012.12.05 10:23:00 -
[23] - Quote
Angsty Teenager wrote:Just so everybody knows, the tengu was and still pretty much is the best ship for missioning in terms of isk per hour. No--not because of it's dps, which was/is very good, but because of it's significant range, speed, align time, and ability to do missions anywhere. The mach comes somewhat close in terms of ability. As it stands right now, there is still no reason not to use the tengu for what it was best for prepatch--mission blitzing to farm LP. You lost some dps (barely any tbh), and some range, which was never an issue in the first place, and now is only a minor consideration. If you want to kill bounties (lol @ the guy saying this is the proper way to mission), BS have historically, and will always be better because of the simple fact that they have higher dps than the tengu.
Unsure anyone said only killing for bounties is the proper way to mission.
Isk per hour is best to combine it all, but to say that it's best isk only farming for lp just shows the Tengu is not as great as you are making it out to be as it just can't kill stuff fast enough.
Even if all you do is blitz the Tengu is not always the best for that job, diferent ships would be optimal for some of those blitzing missions is just that a Tengu in a good compromise.
Tengu is good for what it is, a low sp friendly ship with a great tank, jack of all trades but i earn a lot more per hour with a BS even on rats which not fall over to my Ammo type than I do with a Tengu (both are pretty maxed)
I love the Tengu for what I use it for but can see it's limitations, it's advantages do not make it the optimal choice for enough missions to say it's the best at missioning. |
Ginger Barbarella
State War Academy Caldari State
277
|
Posted - 2012.12.05 18:34:00 -
[24] - Quote
I liked all three... Well done!! |
Ginger Barbarella
State War Academy Caldari State
277
|
Posted - 2012.12.05 18:36:00 -
[25] - Quote
Daniel Plain wrote:Mra Rednu wrote:---garbage snipped--- a claim is not a fact. you have to provide arguments to support it. the fact of the matter is that there are missions that are best done in a tengu, which by definition means that it is the best ship for these missions. if you are doing missions 'properly', you are probably aware that you can not only switch between blitzing and grinding but also between ship hulls.
Dude, you're being trolled. Just in case you didn't see it. |
Jerick Ludhowe
The Nyan Cat Pirates Nyanpire
224
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Posted - 2012.12.05 18:54:00 -
[26] - Quote
Mike Whiite wrote:all I saw was a Heavy missile nerf.
Strange people call it a Tengu Nerf.
Considering that the Tengu uses heavy missiles the ultimate result is that the tengu is nerfed...
Stop trying to be shrewd...
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Slipstick Libby
Global Economy Experts Stellar Economy Experts
0
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Posted - 2012.12.06 02:59:00 -
[27] - Quote
funny CCP only ever nerfs missles this makes 2 missle nerfs ive played through .
for the people who say Tengu is no longer a good mission boat you are STUPID. the reason missle boats are good is not their range or dps. its that they ALWAYS hit. Gunboats miss.
before nerf scourge heavy missle 116km range 601dps after nerf 88km range 555.7 dps before nerf scourge fury 106km range 790.3 dps after nerf 66km range 749.1 dps that was a good nerf but i know you can do better CCP
TENGU STILL OWNS lvl 4 missions
Swing the bat again CCP im eagerly awaiting the messages your scourge fury missed the target now you are balanced with gunboats :)~~
just a note to "ccp" you cant seem to understand the old saying " if it aint broke, DON'T FIX IT."
Slipstick Libby
P.S. Troll away i know you will and i'll just laugh at you lifeless losers
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Bloody Wench
265
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Posted - 2012.12.06 07:43:00 -
[28] - Quote
Caitlyn Tufy wrote:[quote=Bloody Wench]You're wrong on just about everything here, so that deserves a :golfclap:
a Tengu will only pull off 542
Both my Tengu toons do 720 dps Kin...so who knows what crap you're flying.
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