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Diesel47 Bad Men Ltd. 492	Posted - 2013.02.21 03:57:00 - [1] - Quote The drake announces his second (third?) term as Master of all BC near and far. [Drake, New Setup 1] Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Damage Control II Large Shield Extender II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I Warp Disruptor II Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Scourge Rage Heavy Assault Missile [empty high slot] Medium Core Defense Field Extender I Medium Core Defense Field Extender I Medium Core Defense Field Extender I Hobgoblin II x5 -79k EHP, 90k Overloaded. -Web, point, microwarp. -726 DPS, 836 Overloaded. -1003 m/s, 1417 Overloaded. Enjoy another year of Drakes Online -¬ ^.^
loki energon Voodoo Children Workers Trade Federation 12	Posted - 2013.02.21 04:10:00 - [2] - Quote im logging on right now to see how my HAM drake fared ........ kill em all.
Diesel47 Bad Men Ltd. 492	Posted - 2013.02.21 04:11:00 - [3] - Quote loki energon wrote: im logging on right now to see how my HAM drake fared ........ I'm literally training HAM skills right now.
Zarnak Wulf In Exile. 1046	Posted - 2013.02.21 04:13:00 - [4] - Quote What is the DPS of normal faction HAMs? In case something smaller then a BC tackles you?
Diesel47 Bad Men Ltd. 492	Posted - 2013.02.21 04:20:00 - [5] - Quote Zarnak Wulf wrote: What is the DPS of normal faction HAMs? In case something smaller then a BC tackles you? 630, 727 OH. But you'd only really have to worry about tanky afterburner frigates to the point of switching ammo. The web helps alot with everything else.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE 206	Posted - 2013.02.21 04:38:00 - [6] - Quote plus medium neut with genos and 4% grid implant. or small neut with no fitting mods. and hasn't the ham drake been this good for a while?
Diesel47 Bad Men Ltd. 492	Posted - 2013.02.21 04:39:00 - [7] - Quote Chainsaw Plankton wrote: plus medium neut with genos and 4% grid implant. or small neut with no fitting mods. and hasn't the ham drake been this good for a while? Actually does more DPS now after the "balance".
Paikis Vapour Holdings 657	Posted - 2013.02.21 04:48:00 - [8] - Quote Get kited son. You realise that your HAM drake has a max range of ~16kms right? I can kill that in just about ANY other BC.
Trinkets friend Minmatar-Amarr Man-Boy Love Association 901	Posted - 2013.02.21 05:29:00 - [9] - Quote zomg son, you realise he can fit Javs? Taking submissions for "Trinkets friendly Advice Column" via evemail or private convo in-game. Anonymity sorta guaranteed. http://www.localectomy.blogspot.com.au
Paikis Vapour Holdings 657	Posted - 2013.02.21 05:44:00 - [10] - Quote Trinkets friend wrote: zomg son, you realise he can fit Javs? At which point his DPS drops to nothing for 10 seconds, and then is significantly lower and I can kill him with scorch/barrage or dive in and use close range ammo. The Drake is pretty good, but it is still killable.

Super spikinator Hegemonous Conscripts Hegemonous Pandorum 94	Posted - 2013.02.21 05:45:00 - [11] - Quote Paikis wrote: Get kited son. You realise that your HAM drake has a max range of ~16kms right? I can kill that in just about ANY other BC. One does not simply kite a drake.
Seolfor Caldari Provisions Caldari State 0	Posted - 2013.02.21 08:10:00 - [12] - Quote 1. Don't get tackled 2. When Neuts shut down your hardener, with 0% resists instead of 15% previously, watch ur 'EHP' evaporate. The above fit is BAD for brawling, sorry 3. Plug that EM hole 4. Get better missile skills and maybe a fuel/Bay rig and ur Faction HAMs will hit at 22km, Javs are for Chumps 5. Pray the other person hasn't got 80%+ Kinetic resists, cause your non Kinetic Dmg is sub Cruiser level They did a great job with the Drake balance this patch, true tradeoffs. The Cane however ...
Caitlyn Tufy Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact 185	Posted - 2013.02.21 08:11:00 - [13] - Quote Paikis wrote: Get kited son. You realise that your HAM drake has a max range of ~16kms right? I can kill that in just about ANY other BC. Kiting Cyclone. ECM drones, if you're feeling particularly evil :D He can't catch you, he can't run, he can't hit your resist hole. Byebye wittow Dwake :D
Mike Whiite Cupid Stunts. Casoff 132	Posted - 2013.02.21 09:46:00 - [14] - Quote Meh, Look it's a Drake, here people fit a kinetic hardened it can't do anything else. Or if you're more evil. Look it's a Drake, lets kite it with a Caracal just out his range and he never gets in range because it has the agillity of a Whale. Nice damage projection on paper but, 1) you are avoided, bacause you can't catch them 2) you're not avaoided because people lauch about Kinetic damage and you get killed. It is quite nice in larger gangs but the days of "The Drake" are over. as the kill list already show, Caracal is higher now.
Dav Varan Caltech Shipyards 3	Posted - 2013.02.21 09:57:00 - [15] - Quote Theres no need to kite ****. Put a Kin hardner on and press you nose against his face and blow him away while laughing at the kin missiles coming you way.
culo duro Federal Enslavement 23	Posted - 2013.02.21 10:30:00 - [16] - Quote Dav Varan wrote: Theres no need to kite ****. Put a Kin hardner on and press you nose against his face and blow him away while laughing at the kin missiles coming you way. You just need a Deimos, 91% Kinetic resistance. <3
Jack Miton Aperture Harmonics K162 1421	Posted - 2013.02.21 10:34:00 - [17] - Quote My rock is better than your scissors!!! pay no attention to that paper...
Goldensaver Marsuud And Sons Industries 141	Posted - 2013.02.21 11:03:00 - [18] - Quote Jack Miton wrote: My rock is better than your scissors!!! pay no attention to that paper... Pretty much. Drake will hard counter, say, an armour Brutix, which it outdamages at 10+km where it'll be kiting it at flinging HAMs while not getting close enough to be threatened. The Drake is countered by the Deimos. Of course there are more on both sides than just that, but regardless, it has both upsides and downsides. It will beat some but be beaten by others.
Vizvig Savage Blizzard Bora Alis 73	Posted - 2013.02.21 11:25:00 - [19] - Quote Replace HAML to HML, put RF disruptor, and place offgrid loki to spot = omnipwn drake!
Herr Wilkus Aggressive Salvage Services LLC Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service 716	Posted - 2013.02.21 11:57:00 - [20] - Quote The Cane vs Drake matchup is pretty brutal. Previously, it was tough, but the Cane HAD a chance - with dual neuts shutting down Drakes hardeners and punching through right before its own, weaker buffer gave out. Now its just LOL. For people who scream, "Oh, just tank Kinetic"--- thats simply metagaming your fit. Congrats, you are now gimped against all other ships. Also, Drakes can easily swap damage types the minute they run into a lol-90% Kin-resisted metagamer. General fit ACs vs HAMs? -Short Range, Max Damage? <5Km Hurricane dies. Cane has a slight damage advantage - but not by nearly enough to compensate for the Drake's huge passive tank. And at short range you are simply scrammed, webbed and killed. -Moderate 'point range' out to 25km or so? Hurricane runs. At longer ranges you get crushed even worse as your damage drops deep into falloff, while the Drake is doing full damage. -Outside Jav 30km range? Hurricane simply runs or runs out of ammo, or Drake runs. - A) You don't have him pointed. B) you are just tickling his passive tank. Long ranged Medium Arties vs HMLs is a similar situation. In the few places that the Cane' can 'out-slug' the Drake (slightly), the Drake's tank simply makes up the difference in spades. At moderate ranges, the Drake out tanks and out slugs. At long ranges (outside missile range), the Cane is striking so weakly it doesn't hurt the Drake at all, and without a point, it hardly matters.

Herr Wilkus Aggressive Salvage Services LLC Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service 716	Posted - 2013.02.21 12:01:00 - [21] - Quote Vizvig wrote: Replace HAML to HML, put RF disruptor, and place offgrid loki to spot = omnipwn drake! Nice sarcasm! I'd suggest just replacing the Loki with another Hurricane. 2x Hurricanes CAN kill one Drake. See, its balanced!
Herr Wilkus Aggressive Salvage Services LLC Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service 716	Posted - 2013.02.21 12:12:00 - [22] - Quote Goldensaver wrote: Jack Miton wrote: My rock is better than your scissors!!! pay no attention to that paper... Pretty much. Drake will hard counter, say, an armour Brutix, which it outdamages at 10+km where it'll be kiting it at flinging HAMs while not getting close enough to be threatened. The Drake is countered by the Deimos. Of course there are more on both sides than just that, but regardless, it has both upsides and downsides. It will beat some but be beaten by others. Saying a Drake is 'countered' by a Deimos is pointless. Different class of ship entirely with a much higher pricetag. Drake can kite an Armor Brutix, and a point blank the Brutix can overpower the Drake. Sounds fair. At least there is a range 'envelope' that the Brutix has a chance..... Hurricane? It just doesn't matter. Kite, brawl point blank, neut, switch damage types? Doesn't matter, the numbers simply don't add up. Unless you get the HML vs A/C long-range vs shortrange mismatch, or have metagamed your fit specifically - you simply have no credible path to victory in most scenarios. The Drake needed its tank reduced somewhat to bring it in line with the rest of the BC peons. It didn't happen, and will continue to dominate.
Liam Inkuras Chaotic Tranquility Casoff 166	Posted - 2013.02.21 12:45:00 - [23] - Quote Actually, now that active armour rigs do not affect speed, I believe that the armour Brutix (if it has a web) will be able to hope right up on that Drake.
Gypsio III Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork 530	Posted - 2013.02.21 13:03:00 - [24] - Quote So what Herr Wilkus is saying is that he wants the Hurricane to be not only faster, more agile and have greater flexibility of damage type, but also to beat a Drake in a straight-up tackle-range fight too?
Mike Whiite Cupid Stunts. Casoff 133	Posted - 2013.02.21 13:07:00 - [25] - Quote Herr Wilkus wrote: The Cane vs Drake matchup is pretty brutal. For people who scream, "Oh, just tank Kinetic"--- thats simply metagaming your fit. Congrats, you are now gimped against all other ships. Also, Drakes can easily swap damage types the minute they run into a lol-90% Kin-resisted metagamer. Did you actualy see the DPS on a Non Kinetic Drake, it 2/3 of it's kinetic at lvl 5, that less than a Caracal or Cyclone to compare it with other missile ships. Secondly Kinetic damage is about the easiest damage to counter in the game, it's the second thoughest base shield resistance, and Gallente have a resistance against it. I wouldn't know what it would do against the new Cane but I'm quite sure it won't dominate overall. Stepping over to HM will make it PvP wise very vunrable against everything that is smaller than a BC. It's not completly rubbish but you don't have to fear it, It will however still be usefull in blobs, but the Polda Drake will be replaced by the HAMClone, and the PvE Drake lost quite some usefullness with EM rats. Strangly it mostly people that didn't fly a Drake that think it awesome now. because it does 2,9% extra Kinnetic damage on EFT.
Herr Wilkus Aggressive Salvage Services LLC Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service 716	Posted - 2013.02.21 15:15:00 - [26] - Quote Gypsio III wrote: So what Herr Wilkus is saying is that he wants the Hurricane to be not only faster, more agile and have greater flexibility of damage type, but also to beat a Drake in a straight-up tackle-range fight too? No, just some scenarios where it is at least capable of killing or driving off a Drake if flown with some kind of intelligence. Here's the general situation: 8 scenarios divided by range of engagement and weapon class. All scenarios use Level V skills and general-use fits. 1&2. Short-Range Drake destroys Short-Range Cane at ALL ranges, and kills at scram range in about 70 seconds. 3&4. Long-Range Drake destroys Long-Range Cane at ALL ranges, and kills at scram range in about 2 minutes. 5&6. Short Range Drake absolutely destroys a Long Range Cane at zero. At a distance - Drake retreats. 7&8. Short Range Cane 'can kill' a Long Range Drake at zero km, but its 50/50. It takes each ship approximately 135 seconds to kill the other. At range - Hurricane retreats. Out of eight plausible situations: Drake easily kills in 3 scenarios and quickly drives the Hurricane off in another 3. Drake is driven off the field in one. And the Drake, maybe - MAYBE loses in one scenario vs the Cane - I'd give it a 50/50 chance. I'd suggest giving the Hurricane a bit more 'brute force close range firepower with a nudge to its 5% ROF/Damage bonuses, but that might crowd the Brutix. Better solution was built around its unique 'extra' utility high. Its 'ace in the hole' vs the Drake's vastly superior numbers was always the 2x Neuts, and losing that made the situation simply hopeless. And those neuts didn't even guarantee you a win - they just made it close. Usually one ship or the other was going to win in structure. If giving the Hurricane back its 'extra utility high' gives too much heartburn due to 17 slot standard), there is a simple revision. Just give -1 Turret, increase the damage bonuses to 7.5% to compensate - bam - problem solved, 2 utility slots once again available) Say what you like about the Brutix - it KILLS when it is 'at zero', regardless of opponent. It loses in kiting situations - but also has the speed to run away and warp out in most losing/kiting situations.
Mike Whiite Cupid Stunts. Casoff 134	Posted - 2013.02.21 15:27:00 - [27] - Quote why does the Drake retreat 5&6 and the Cane not 3&4, in other words why do you have senario 3&4 a battle in Scram Range and in 5&6 not. Also Do al your senario's have the same resists and weapons?
Herr Wilkus Aggressive Salvage Services LLC Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service 716	Posted - 2013.02.21 15:45:00 - [28] - Quote Mike Whiite wrote: why does the Drake retreat 5&6 and the Cane not 3&4, in other words why do you have senario 3&4 a battle in Scram Range and in 5&6 not. Also Do al your senario's have the same resists and weapons? Scenario 5: Arty Cane vs HAM Drake. At short range, Drake absolutely shreds the Cane in about a minute. Scenario 6, same ships, long range: HAM Drake can't hit Arty Cane - or close with it, so must retreat. Cane cannot close to tackle range without getting killed, so must let Drake go. Scenario 3: HML Drake kills Arty Cane at short range (scramming). Scenario 4: HML Drake drives off Hurricane with superior damage and tank at range. I suppose there is one caveat in #4, however. Outside of HML range, 62km+ with 720MM Tremor the Cane can very slowly whittle down a Drake. But it will take a VERY long time - approximately 14 minutes without overheating the Drakes invulns.
Tsai Ashitaka Aether Ventures Surely You're Joking 16	Posted - 2013.02.21 19:01:00 - [29] - Quote Herr Wilkus wrote: The Cane vs Drake matchup is pretty brutal. Previously, it was tough, but the Cane HAD a chance - with dual neuts shutting down Drakes hardeners and punching through right before its own, weaker buffer gave out. Canes were never balanced around 2 neuts. Its ability to do so while fielding guns and a tank without fitting mods was drastically overpowered. Herr Wilkus wrote: Also, Drakes can easily swap damage types the minute they run into a lol-90% Kin-resisted metagamer. At a 2/3 damage penalty. The hurricane can do the same thing with zero penalty (unless you're actually trying to fight with Hail, which doesn't make sense since EXP is the drake's highest resist. EMP/PP is your friend). Herr Wilkus wrote: General fit ACs vs HAMs? -Short Range, Max Damage? <5Km Hurricane dies. Cane has a slight damage advantage - but not by nearly enough to compensate for the Drake's huge passive tank. And at short range you are simply scrammed, webbed and killed. The drake lost almost 1000 raw hit points from the patch, over 200 of which came from shields. Yes, the hurricane still has less shields, but it's versatile enough to be armor or shield tanked. The drake is a one-trick shield-tanked pony. If you're crying for your minmatar "versatility", then you have to accept being a jack of all trades, master of none.
Solomar Espersei Quality Assurance The Marmite Collective 351	Posted - 2013.02.21 19:27:00 - [30] - Quote While we're talking Drake Trains, has anyone else tried to fit a New Model PODLA Drake? It takes pretty solid skills to fit it and range is limited to 63k with only so-so DPS (the original wasn't spectacular at DPS either though). It can now fit a medium neut to go with its dual webs so closing with it will be a PitA. I'm not saying it's a winner, but for the cost and if you like that kiting play style it will contend with the Cyclone which can be fit similarly, trading the Drake's still impressive tank (right at 60k for the new PODLA version) for select-able damage, outstanding speed, better drone bay and an extra medium neut. OTOH, Talos. But I guess, not everyone has Large Blasters spec'd up and dig missiles. ;) Quality Assurance



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