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Lucian Crendraven
Miners In Possession
0
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Posted - 2013.04.02 14:44:00 -
[1] - Quote
Is it just me or is armor tanking not the way to go for pvp. Any thoughts? |
Egravant Alduin
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
6
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Posted - 2013.04.02 14:52:00 -
[2] - Quote
I have tried both and it really depends on the ship.If it has a lot of low slots and a few med slots then armor tanking it's better.Also armor tanking wastes less capacitor but it's slower.I'm having typhoon fleet issue and dies really hard with armor tanking and it 's very fun.A good option for pvp as I have seen in youtube videos is passive tanking with a lot of hps so no need of capacitor. |
Velicitia
Nex Exercitus
1328
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Posted - 2013.04.02 15:02:00 -
[3] - Quote
my guardian says it works pretty well. One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia Malcanis for CSM8 |
Daniel Plain
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
908
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Posted - 2013.04.02 15:58:00 -
[4] - Quote
Lucian Crendraven wrote:Is it just me or is armor tanking not the way to go for pvp. Any thoughts? as just about all blanket statements, this is incorrect. which kind of tank is better depends on the ship you fly, its intended role, the opponents you expect etc.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings" -MXZF |
sabre906
Old Spice Syndicate Sailors of the Sacred Spice
925
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Posted - 2013.04.02 16:34:00 -
[5] - Quote
Speed, ASB. What else is there to say? Standings Improvement Service https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=19454 |
Lucian Crendraven
Miners In Possession
0
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Posted - 2013.04.02 17:13:00 -
[6] - Quote
Daniel Plain wrote:Lucian Crendraven wrote:Is it just me or is armor tanking not the way to go for pvp. Any thoughts? as just about all blanket statements, this is incorrect. which kind of tank is better depends on the ship you fly, its intended role, the opponents you expect etc.
Right now i fly gallente active armor tank. I do well in missioning but having trouble in pvp. |
Dark Lightstrong
Asset Reclamation Services LLC
8
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Posted - 2013.04.02 17:27:00 -
[7] - Quote
And ALOT of utility slots for webs and scram/warp disruptor right? |
Ersahi Kir
Freelance Mining Company
61
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Posted - 2013.04.02 17:28:00 -
[8] - Quote
Active armor tanks are bad for PvP from what I've seen. Buffer armor tanks are the way to go for PvP.
On the shield side I've seen some buffer fits and I've seen ASB fits. Standard shield booster fits are as bad as active armor fits.
edit: Active armor and shield fits are good in missions because of the low-ish damage applied over a long period of time. PvP fights are very short with high DPS where active tanks don't get much time to repair damage. |
sabre906
Old Spice Syndicate Sailors of the Sacred Spice
925
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Posted - 2013.04.02 17:30:00 -
[9] - Quote
Ersahi Kir wrote:Active armor tanks are bad for PvP from what I've seen. Buffer armor tanks are the way to go for PvP.
On the shield side I've seen some buffer fits and I've seen ASB fits. Standard shield booster fits are as bad as active armor fits.
Only because there's ASB.
Dark Lightstrong wrote:And ALOT of utility slots for webs and scram/warp disruptor right?
You'll have to get in range first. Standings Improvement Service https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=19454 |
Cage Man
181
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Posted - 2013.04.02 18:31:00 -
[10] - Quote
Lucian Crendraven wrote:Daniel Plain wrote:Lucian Crendraven wrote:Is it just me or is armor tanking not the way to go for pvp. Any thoughts? as just about all blanket statements, this is incorrect. which kind of tank is better depends on the ship you fly, its intended role, the opponents you expect etc. Right now i fly gallente active armor tank. I do well in missioning but having trouble in pvp.
maybe link your pvp fits and ask for advice, maybe you using blasters and are being kited??? .. I use both and they both work.. just depends what you doing and who with. Shield however is nice as you can squeez some extra dps out of the ship.. sometimes..
Oh PLEASE!!! CCP Fozzie Can I haz a Navy moa....... |
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Shpenat
Pafos Technologies
35
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Posted - 2013.04.02 19:09:00 -
[11] - Quote
Lucian Crendraven wrote:
Right now i fly gallente active armor tank. I do well in missioning but having trouble in pvp.
I fly active armor gallente ships almost exclusively. And I have no trouble in fights unless neuting ship appear or really well skilled kiter. It is just the question of personal skills. |
Inkarr Hashur
Sine Nobilitatis
300
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Posted - 2013.04.02 19:23:00 -
[12] - Quote
Lucian Crendraven wrote:Is it just me or is armor tanking not the way to go for pvp. Any thoughts?
Depends on what kind of PVP you're doing. Armor tanking has its place. |
Paikis
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
735
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Posted - 2013.04.02 20:28:00 -
[13] - Quote
This thread will only end in tears. |
Antillie Sa'Kan
Forging Industries Silent Infinity
27
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Posted - 2013.04.02 21:53:00 -
[14] - Quote
All things should end in tears. |
Zan Shiro
Alternative Enterprises
122
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Posted - 2013.04.03 07:23:00 -
[15] - Quote
Paikis wrote:This thread will only end in tears.
and probably some math....since we can't have tank wars without tons of math.
Each tank has it place.
learn both. You may find if you change corps your uber shield fit form an old corp is crap in a new armour based home or vice versa.
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culo duro
EVE Corporation 987654321-POP The Marmite Collective
59
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Posted - 2013.04.03 07:33:00 -
[16] - Quote
Lucian Crendraven wrote:Is it just me or is armor tanking not the way to go for pvp. Any thoughts?
Armor Tanking = More Utility slots for webs/Cap boosters/ECCM. get some buddies in some logi ships and grab a buffer. Shield Tanking = More DPS, and you're dead if you're out of cap. |
Uppsy Daisy
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
165
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Posted - 2013.04.03 09:15:00 -
[17] - Quote
Lucian Crendraven wrote:Is it just me or is armor tanking not the way to go for pvp. Any thoughts?
For solo, yes.
For fleets, generally.
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Siigari Kitawa
Push Industries Push Interstellar Network
303
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Posted - 2013.04.03 11:30:00 -
[18] - Quote
culo duro wrote:Lucian Crendraven wrote:Is it just me or is armor tanking not the way to go for pvp. Any thoughts? Armor Tanking = More Utility slots for webs/Cap boosters/ECCM. get some buddies in some logi ships and grab a buffer. Shield Tanking = More DPS, and you're dead if you're out of cap. lol what
Active armor tank pros: High DPS and full tackle gear, can rep a lot of damage in a medium amount of time, medium to high resists Active armor tank cons: Slowish, needs overloaded MWD to keep up
Active shield tank pros: Can often out-tank damage easily, moderate to high DPS, very fast, medium resists Active shield tank cons: Often relies on internal cap stability or insta-dead, medium resists, usually fits a scram only, alpha susceptible
Passive armor tank pros: Very high resists, extremely large buffer, extremely high DPS Passive armor tank cons: Extremely slow, susceptible to kiting
Passive shield tank pros: High to moderate resists, good buffer, shields can regen over the course of time naturally increasing your EHP, can be very fast Passive shield tank cons: Limited tackle gear, DPS low to medium Need stuff moved? Push Industries will handle it. Serving highsec, lowsec and nullsec - and we do it faster and more reliably than anyone else. Ingame channel: PUSHX |
Drake Doe
SVER True Blood Unclaimed.
108
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Posted - 2013.04.03 12:06:00 -
[19] - Quote
Siigari Kitawa wrote:culo duro wrote:Lucian Crendraven wrote:Is it just me or is armor tanking not the way to go for pvp. Any thoughts? Armor Tanking = More Utility slots for webs/Cap boosters/ECCM. get some buddies in some logi ships and grab a buffer. Shield Tanking = More DPS, and you're dead if you're out of cap. lol what Active armor tank pros: High DPS and full tackle gear, can rep a lot of damage in a medium amount of time, medium to high resists Active armor tank cons: Slowish, needs overloaded MWD to keep up Active shield tank pros: Can often out-tank damage easily, moderate to high DPS, very fast, medium resists Active shield tank cons: Often relies on internal cap stability or insta-dead, medium resists, usually fits a scram only, alpha susceptible Passive armor tank pros: Very high resists, extremely large buffer, extremely high DPS Passive armor tank cons: Extremely slow, susceptible to kiting Passive shield tank pros: High to moderate resists, good buffer, shields can regen over the course of time naturally increasing your EHP, can be very fast Passive shield tank cons: Limited tackle gear, DPS low to medium Are you comparing armor ships vs shield ships or shield setups on armor ships and vice versa? |
Shpenat
Pafos Technologies
35
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Posted - 2013.04.03 12:13:00 -
[20] - Quote
Siigari Kitawa wrote: lol what
Active armor tank pros: High DPS and full tackle gear, can rep a lot of damage in a medium amount of time, medium to high resists Active armor tank cons: Slowish, needs overloaded MWD to keep up
Active shield tank pros: Can often out-tank damage easily, moderate to high DPS, very fast, medium resists Active shield tank cons: Often relies on internal cap stability or insta-dead, medium resists, usually fits a scram only, alpha susceptible
Passive armor tank pros: Very high resists, extremely large buffer, extremely high DPS Passive armor tank cons: Extremely slow, susceptible to kiting
Passive shield tank pros: High to moderate resists, good buffer, shields can regen over the course of time naturally increasing your EHP, can be very fast Passive shield tank cons: Limited tackle gear, DPS low to medium
I think you did a bit miscalculation on the DPS.
It should go like this
Active armor: low DPS
Active shield: medium - high DPS
Passive armor: medium DPS
Passive shield: high DPS
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Siigari Kitawa
Push Industries Push Interstellar Network
303
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Posted - 2013.04.03 12:31:00 -
[21] - Quote
Drake Doe wrote: Are you comparing armor ships vs shield ships or shield setups on armor ships and vice versa?
This is mostly native. Most armor boats (meant for doing damage) have high raw damage which is counterbalanced by their poor speed. Need stuff moved? Push Industries will handle it. Serving highsec, lowsec and nullsec - and we do it faster and more reliably than anyone else. Ingame channel: PUSHX |
Perihelion Olenard
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
145
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Posted - 2013.04.04 11:20:00 -
[22] - Quote
Siigari Kitawa wrote:Drake Doe wrote: Are you comparing armor ships vs shield ships or shield setups on armor ships and vice versa?
This is mostly native. Most armor boats (meant for doing damage) have high raw damage which is counterbalanced by their poor speed. But, if you shield tank them, they can put out an insane amount of damage at a longer range with no speed or agility limitation. I wear my sunglasses at night. |
Ned Plantagenet
Obtained Power ProtoStar Federation
23
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Posted - 2013.04.04 11:31:00 -
[23] - Quote
I flew with armor fitted rupture with t2 AC's along with a fleet of 5-6 other guys. Just make the tank buffer with passive hardeners with a damage control. Mid slots are free for your choosing.
In just a straight cruiser fleet we killed BS and BC along with cruiser fleets its fun and cheap when you lose them 30mil a ship with fit. Makes a fun time in pvp |
Gitanmaxx
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
91
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Posted - 2013.04.04 17:15:00 -
[24] - Quote
Every answer in this thread will be anecdotal. So I'll add one of my own.
I've been armor tanking for a long time. But I was a pve only kind of awful player. I started doing pvp a couple months ago and quickly decided that all my sp on armor tanking felt like it was a waste so I spent a month and half training shield tanking skills because everything I fit with shields ends up looking a lot better.
just one point of view from one player, but that's how it felt to me. And the usual line you'll hear of "with armor tanking you have more free slots for tackle is a little misleading because shield tanking ships will have more mids and armor tanking ships will have more lows so that's a wash on the slot argument. |
Lucian Crendraven
The Scope Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2013.04.04 19:53:00 -
[25] - Quote
Gitanmaxx wrote:Every answer in this thread will be anecdotal. So I'll add one of my own.
I've been armor tanking for a long time. But I was a pve only kind of awful player. I started doing pvp a couple months ago and quickly decided that all my sp on armor tanking felt like it was a waste so I spent a month and half training shield tanking skills because everything I fit with shields ends up looking a lot better.
just one point of view from one player, but that's how it felt to me. And the usual line you'll hear of "with armor tanking you have more free slots for tackle is a little misleading because shield tanking ships will have more mids and armor tanking ships will have more lows so that's a wash on the slot argument.
This is how i am starting to feel. But I am so invested right now in my armor tanking sp's, .... part of me wants to just go ahead finish out the training. Just don't know if i will be happy with the finished results. |
Umega
Solis Mensa
146
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Posted - 2013.04.04 21:56:00 -
[26] - Quote
Flat DPS number doesn't really mean ****, people.
It is applied DPS that matters. Can pee out numbers all day long, but the numbers that matter are the ones that actually land on target, you know.. in the game itself. Tracking/gun rez/sig radius/speed/trans-angular velocity/optimal/falloff all need to be factored. Not simply what eft tells you.
Armor ships have the better base caps, also the open mids to fit boosters without sacrificing resist slots. DCU favors armor tanking (and amarr/gallente have better structures too). RR armor is better.
When Tracking Enhancers get nerfed.. TCs could be more favorable, increasing the gap between armor/shield when comparing Applied DPS.
Just some things missing from the arguements being had I'd like to point out.
Speed = GTFO.. unless you're slow-wited, it doesn't equate to iwin. To the person complaining in every thread about speed.. stop sucking. Kite vessels are popular so people can pick fights.. that doesn't mean they win all fights, infact they can't handle a lot of ships. Slower ships, pilgrim easy example.. can handle more targets than say a cynabal. Also.. GTFO is favored because it can negate 'hot-drops/reinforcements' arrival by using dscan/local properly and warping off when warrented.
-áUme-Pro Studios |
Hakaimono
Stillwater Corporation
80
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Posted - 2013.04.04 22:07:00 -
[27] - Quote
Armor < shield < hull Hull tanking is for champions.
Armor is good for ships that do well with ewar. Also drone ships have space for omnis, eccm, and prop when armor tanked. Exploration Ishtar is a good example of a ship that succeeds well with armor tanking. |
Angelique Duchemin
Serenity Prime Kraken.
390
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Posted - 2013.04.05 00:26:00 -
[28] - Quote
The game is pretty balanced between Armour and Shield. The decider is what ships your fleets fly really. You pick a ship you like and whatever is best for that particular ship is what you use.
One day I am going to build a Hull tanked Carrier. Fill the cargo with quafe. Bring it to low sec and fight pirates for as long as it lasts. We miss you Saede. |
Tsukino Stareine
EVE University Ivy League
48
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Posted - 2013.04.05 19:47:00 -
[29] - Quote
Armour means mids free for ewar and arguably superior logistics fleets since remote support modules are also mid slots.
Shield means speed as it frees lows for nanos and mostly superior damage as all damage mods are in the lows. And obviously plates on armour ships widen the gap further but less so now because of honeycombing.
For small gangs you're likely to want to shield fit, larger gangs either way is fine. The new osprey moa brawl fleet doctrine can rival any armour brawl doctrine these days |
Perihelion Olenard
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
146
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Posted - 2013.04.05 20:48:00 -
[30] - Quote
Tsukino Stareine wrote:Armour means mids free for ewar and arguably superior logistics fleets since remote support modules are also mid slots.
Shield means speed as it frees lows for nanos and mostly superior damage as all damage mods are in the lows. And obviously plates on armour ships widen the gap further but less so now because of honeycombing.
For small gangs you're likely to want to shield fit, larger gangs either way is fine. The new osprey moa brawl fleet doctrine can rival any armour brawl doctrine these days The benefit of armor honeycombing is rather small in reality, but still better than nothing. I wear my sunglasses at night. |
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