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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 48 post(s) |
Dheeradj Nurgle
Hoover Inc. Test Alliance Please Ignore
366
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Posted - 2013.05.09 16:51:00 -
[331] - Quote
Nia Frisby wrote: okay thats better i guess, at least im not losing SP. still feel a bit cheated but whatever it's my own fault for specializing in an area that interested me
You do know that all skills combined, it stacks higher than it is right now.... |
Zloco Crendraven
BALKAN EXPRESS
326
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Posted - 2013.05.09 16:54:00 -
[332] - Quote
I just found "Regional Serpentis Data Processing Center" in Jovainnon solar system. I have with my self both the Relic Analyzer I and the Data Analyzer I. Neither of those 2 worked on any of the objects in the site mentioned above. So how is this exploration done. Dont tell me i need to have all skills on 5 for T2 modules so i can do exploration in lowsec.
LF CSM8 candidate. Are you what lowsec needs? --->-átinyurl.com/afaawrb
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Sipphakta en Gravonere
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
59
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Posted - 2013.05.09 16:55:00 -
[333] - Quote
Zloco Crendraven wrote:I just found "Regional Serpentis Data Processing Center" in Jovainnon solar system. I have with my self both the Relic Analyzer I and the Data Analyzer I. Neither of those 2 worked on any of the objects in the site mentioned above. So how is this exploration done. Dont tell me i need to have all skills on 5 for T2 modules so i can do exploration in lowsec.
Currently it seems to be not implemented, you can just right-click and open cargo without any module at all. Right-click and just open (not open cargo) will start a minigame which doesn't seem to work right now as well. I wish I were a cat. That way, I could kill things and people would applaud - instead of screaming out "OH GOD NO, NOT MY DAUGHTER!" |
Zloco Crendraven
BALKAN EXPRESS
326
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Posted - 2013.05.09 16:59:00 -
[334] - Quote
Sipphakta en Gravonere wrote:Zloco Crendraven wrote:I just found "Regional Serpentis Data Processing Center" in Jovainnon solar system. I have with my self both the Relic Analyzer I and the Data Analyzer I. Neither of those 2 worked on any of the objects in the site mentioned above. So how is this exploration done. Dont tell me i need to have all skills on 5 for T2 modules so i can do exploration in lowsec.
Currently it seems to be not implemented, you can just right-click and open cargo without any module at all. Right-click and just open (not open cargo) will start a minigame which doesn't seem to work right now as well.
Ohh tnx...i was banging my head on the monitor trying to figure it out :P LF CSM8 candidate. Are you what lowsec needs? --->-átinyurl.com/afaawrb
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Sulvorati Kunoki
Global Economy Experts Stellar Economy Experts
0
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Posted - 2013.05.09 17:01:00 -
[335] - Quote
Some observations about the new probe system.
1. Bring back DSP's. They are invaluable in wormhole space for gathering quick intel upon entering an adjacent hole. Alternatively increase combat probes scan radius so that 7 probes can instantly scan an entire system. Maybe tie the scan radius to the Astrometrics skill level, that way I won't feel so robbed of the time I took to train it to level V.
2. Probes should not return to your ship when you change systems. If you leave them behind that's your own fault. CCP should not be babysitting all of our activities. There are tactical reasons why leaving probes behind in a wormhole system is useful.
3. Do probes no longer have a timer? I don't see a countdown anymore.
4. If you can't use a probe launcher without it having 7 probes installed then why have individual probes at all. Especially if they can't be destroyed by timing out or by being targeted and shot.
Otherwise I think the new system is reasonable well implemented. It should speed up scanning sites and wormholes by taking out the tedious parts. Not convinced that is helpful for combat scanning however as there are many ways in which people have got used to using probes for that and the new system appears to constrict what you can do too much.
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hfo df
Ramm's RDI Tactical Narcotics Team
19
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Posted - 2013.05.09 17:13:00 -
[336] - Quote
Can you make the probe output copy pastable again? Cheers! |
Fearless Leader2
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1
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Posted - 2013.05.09 17:15:00 -
[337] - Quote
I have checked and played the SISI setup and have questions.
1. when probes are out I used to be able to highlight and keep highlighted several probes in the on board scanner window and then adjust all the highlighted probes the same as far as AU range setting or recall are concerned for example. now I have to highlight them each and every time to make an adjustment. how do I keep the selected ones high lighted now ?
2. how do i get all the probes to show at the same time without haveing to hold down the return key. makes it diffucult to adjust AU range as needed on different probes?
3. how do I sort the probes in the window according to au range setting. I often have the center probe of 7 at 64 au and the others at whatever I need to get the sigs. need to be able to sort the probes for easier adjustment.
4, how do I launch a 8th probe ? part of several patterns I like to use.
5. how or why can i not launch one probe ? I often do not need to advertise that i am scanning.also i often lauch one probe and set it out of DS range, and when i see ships or what ever i will lauch 7 more and get a ship lock and the 1st probe is still scanning the whole system for new info. uncloaking more often is not good.
6. do the signal strength of sigs shown still correspond to the same sig strength we currently have?
7. how do i prevent them from starting in the center of the system ? kind of hard to keep the probes off of others directional scan with them starting in the center of the system.
8. can the probes be moved, spaced apart all at the same time by using ONE key and a mouse ? Shift key and alt key and mouse click to move the pattern in and out is a bit much. especially for those of us using programable mice do to old stiff hands and fingers. and why the swaping and mixing of shift, alt, etc from past use ?
9. how do I sort the scanned out sites by type, name, etc ? no columns to use.
10. when using the new sensor overlay scanner how can i get a list of anoms to show. haveing to "look" around the system to see what is there or to select a item to warp to is just time consuming and silly. the sites ID name often overlap each other and can not be read. also a good way to loose a ship getting locked while your selecting the right warp point......
11. can i get the new sensor scanner to work and show a list of items and get the sites shown on the window GONE to reduce clutter and make it easier to see what i need to see?
12. when you hold the mouse over a site you get a sound effect, does the sound patterns or effects coaralate with the site types?
13. how do we get probes to be left in space and NOT recalled on docking, jumping gates, etc ? probes left in space are very useful to some of us.
14. what happens and what are the effects with our scanning implants that we are using and have spent isk on ?
15. has the scanning system quit remembering sites scanned to 100% ?
16 probes timers? do they last forever now ?
17. the ignore results and clear results do not seem to be working correctly
18. so i now need to fill up ship slots with modules when they become avaiable to get max scan ability ? or am i missing something, do max skills give final effects with out need of modules or are both neeeded?
19. sort of a different subject but what is ccp's goal or intention on making grav sites no longer needed to be scaned out.
thanks |
Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
156
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Posted - 2013.05.09 17:24:00 -
[338] - Quote
That's exactly what they tries to combat with DSP removal. Don't hold your breath for it coming back in any form. The two most common elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity. ---áHarlan Ellison |
Haulie Berry
616
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Posted - 2013.05.09 17:29:00 -
[339] - Quote
Tonto Auri wrote:That's exactly what they tries to combat with DSP removal. Don't hold your breath for it coming back in any form.
Actually, there are some good arguments for the return of DSPs, and the sig strength of the system scanner seems, so far, like it might be a fairly workable alternative to that particular function of DSPs. I haven't played with it much, yet, and it might not provide the same resolution, but you can *definitely* tell if it's on the weak end or the strong end.
Enough people want DSPs and 8 probes for 4/4 configs that I wouldn't be surprised if they reverse course on this one. |
Olari Vanderfall
Z3R0 RETURN MINING INC. Illusion of Solitude
9
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Posted - 2013.05.09 17:36:00 -
[340] - Quote
Tonto Auri wrote:That's exactly what they tries to combat with DSP removal. Don't hold your breath for it coming back in any form.
This can be dealt with without removing DSP. It might take a more creative approach but it should be possible to randomize sig strength results at lower signal strengths so there is overlap among sig types so you can't be sure of the type. The scanner doesn't display sig strength anymore.
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Bill Orland
Think Logistics
0
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Posted - 2013.05.09 17:41:00 -
[341] - Quote
Dheeradj Nurgle wrote:For PvP, some of these changes are.... annoying to say at least. Being unable to sort results by distance is a huge blow to Bomber Wings, and other Combat Probers. I guess sniping ships will benefit greatly from this. The table we have on TQ might not look pretty, but it's functional. The one on SiSi, not so much.
For those of us who are relatively new to scanning, can someone please briefly explain why distance when combat probing matters so much?
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Yaar Podshipnik
Paxton Industries Gentlemen's Agreement
6
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Posted - 2013.05.09 17:50:00 -
[342] - Quote
The only real grip I have so far is the new modules being mids, and all the scanning frigates being rather short on them. So far only Buzzard can fit all 3 new modules and either two analyzers or analyzer and ab/mwd combo.
Also, not seeding new modules is a big disappointment. Can't test what we don't have. |
Rebecha Pucontis
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
290
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Posted - 2013.05.09 17:55:00 -
[343] - Quote
Ok tested this out on Singularity. The probing changes are really bad. In fact so many things are wrong I will need to spend an hour constructing a proper feedback post.
Before I do that let me ask. Is this basically proper version we are going to see before I spend my time constructing feedback?
Just off the bat a few things which need changing asap.
1. All cosmic signatures should appear in the system scanner window seeing as the DSP has now been taken away.
2. More options are needed for probe formations and layout. The pinpoint formation is good, but the spread formation??
3. 8 probes need to be bought back and other variations under the standard 7 probes need to be bought back.
4. Probe layouts should be much more customisable, right now you can't really do anything with them compared to the options we have pre odyysey.
Those 4 major things are pretty essential to sort out before we can even begin looking at this in depth. |
Rebecha Pucontis
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
290
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Posted - 2013.05.09 17:57:00 -
[344] - Quote
Olari Vanderfall wrote:Tonto Auri wrote:That's exactly what they tries to combat with DSP removal. Don't hold your breath for it coming back in any form. This can be dealt with without removing DSP. It might take a more creative approach but it should be possible to randomize sig strength results at lower signal strengths so there is overlap among sig types so you can't be sure of the type. The scanner doesn't display sig strength anymore. What happened to CCP supporting emergent gameplay? Come on CCP, if this is true then you are really dropping the ball on this one.
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Kadl
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
32
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Posted - 2013.05.09 17:59:00 -
[345] - Quote
CCP Paradox wrote:Just wanted to chime in, it's still a public holiday here in Iceland. I'm still compiling all of your feedback though, and will go over it with the team tomorrow. We will then start replying to a few of the points here.
Big thanks for the feedback, I know you guys are passionate about it and so are we.
It seems you have a big task to iron out all of the problems in these new changes.
I have found a number of points in this list that seemed significant to me.
100% scans T2 modules requiring skill at level 1? Numerous posts about launching single probes. Numerous posts about deep space probes. Resizing columns/centering probe map Shift+Alt (haha! Choosing the quick keyboard layout change key combo!) also 4 probe pattern (CCP limiting options/innovation) also Spread formation (example of CCP not knowing how things are done) Shift does opposite Numerous posts angry at the removal of personal skill in the scanning process. Probes expire without a timer Warp indicator lines (green lines) are gone Custom probe setups?
To this list I would add the integration of the system scanner into probe scanning. Different groups and people are working on these but the features should be integrated and functioning with each other.
CCP Paradox wrote:Saving formations is tricky, but we do really want to at least save the last formation you assembled the probes into. I cannot promise that for Odyssey at this stage, but we're working on it. That you are considering this is good. Providing some basic formations is fine, but as the spread location shows, CCP will not know the best formation for every situation. One person suggested adding this to scripts. You could also add a custom probe button to the scanning formations list (player custom). The last formation is ok, but being able to customize the formation bar is better.
CCP Paradox wrote:Not easier, but more accessible. We are not trying to reduce the art of scanning down to a simple click, we are aiming to make scanning more accessible to those who want to use it, but still requires you to master the art. This sounds exactly the same as marketing speak. Hopefully you will return some of the skill options to us. For example allow the 8 probes so that people can do their own thing and discover ideas that CCP has not thought about.
CCP Fozzie wrote:The list view onboard scanner is still in this version of SISI, but we are planning on removing it barring any major problems with the sensor overlay. Ideally we want to keep the number of tools people need to learn the same with this change, not increase it. This list is in the same location as the list produced by probes. It would be nice to confirm that Fozzie is not planning on removing the probe scanner list. I would assume that he is only talking about the onboard scanner analyze button. As part of integrating the work from these two separate groups removing this list causes problems. I can see the anomaly, but it won't appear on my list... |
Rebecha Pucontis
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
291
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Posted - 2013.05.09 18:08:00 -
[346] - Quote
Ive figured a way to get other probe formations. It is quite long winded though. You have to launch 7 probes to begin with, and then recall each probe you don't want, which kind of defeats the purpose. Also probe formation are still customisable which is good, but options for 8 probes need to be bought back, launching 8 probes should be the standard option. |
Alexander the Great
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
14
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Posted - 2013.05.09 18:10:00 -
[347] - Quote
I appreciate the effort to make scanning more exciting but I'm very disappointed by current implementation. Absence of any reasoning makes me think that people working on it are very incompetent in scanning.
Now to details. BTW I'm not a wormholer but do a lot of scanning for PvE and PvP.
Seven probes launched at once Why would you do that to us? I need to launch 1, 4 or 8 probes in different situations. - Launching probes one by one was in line with launching everything in EVE and you're "making it simpler" where it's not needed. - 8th probe. We really need it. - Also I don't like your formations and want to save mine.
Probes now instantly recall on system jump or station dock This has two problems. - Sometimes I need to place probes in certain position and recall them after I re-enter the system to scan for some ship. - Forgetting to recall probes was one of catching game features for me. It will be sad not to hear or say "Damn, forgot those probes" any more.
Deep Space Probe removal Provide the reason please. They are very useful to get signal strength for the whole system. And making them available only at Astrometrics 5 looks reasonable.
Skill Changes Why change what works great? Looks like you did it only to change default to 7 probes (which is very bad) so Astrometrics skill became useless and you didn't find a good bonus for it. - Also look at Astrometric Rangefinding skill. 5% bonus for x8 skill, seriousely? You won't need this skill at all with new modules.
New exploration modules Don't add them please. You are making Astrometric Rangefinding level 5 and Virtue set unneeded at all. Also this modules currently require skill at level 1 for T1 and T2. Shouldn't it be level 5 for T2? Anyway T1 bonuses are so high you'll never need to train skill to level 5.
And +1 to issues already raised. Like copying results, sorting by column, remembering what is scanned to 100% etc. If you want to improve things - don't remove useful features. |
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
621
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Posted - 2013.05.09 18:27:00 -
[348] - Quote
Seems to me a lot of unintended psudo-exploits were developed over the years.
1) using the signal strength to know the sig type without actually probing to 50%. 2) launching probes, then leaving them preset in desired formation, to come back and reconnect to later.
CCP seems to be "messing with" some of those unintended uses of probes, and people ain't happy about it.
For me, the killer is how much faster it will be to scan down ships. Null sec miners user to be fairly safe in a newly spawned sig. You knew that even if a bad guy came into system, it was going to take him time to probe you down. Not any more... grav are not anoms. Hate that change.
But, even if you are in a safe, combat probing is going to be SOOO much faster now. |
Kcolorr
Eighty Joule Brewery Goonswarm Federation
0
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Posted - 2013.05.09 18:57:00 -
[349] - Quote
Bill Orland wrote:Dheeradj Nurgle wrote:For PvP, some of these changes are.... annoying to say at least. Being unable to sort results by distance is a huge blow to Bomber Wings, and other Combat Probers. I guess sniping ships will benefit greatly from this. The table we have on TQ might not look pretty, but it's functional. The one on SiSi, not so much. For those of us who are relatively new to scanning, can someone please briefly explain why sorting by distance when combat probing matters so much?
You have a friendly fleet of oracles fighting a hostile fleet of oracles, there is also a third fleet of oracles inside a pos nearby that's within combat scan range. Distance is the only way to decipher which fleet you're going to be warping to, distance is the only way to decide which signatures you ignore and which you do not.
I can only imagine the pain of the oracle FCs as they attempt to warp at each other just to find out that the probe results they're using are their own fleet and nothing happens because they cannot tell the distance. |
Bill Orland
Think Logistics
0
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Posted - 2013.05.09 19:10:00 -
[350] - Quote
Kcolorr wrote:Bill Orland wrote:Dheeradj Nurgle wrote:For PvP, some of these changes are.... annoying to say at least. Being unable to sort results by distance is a huge blow to Bomber Wings, and other Combat Probers. I guess sniping ships will benefit greatly from this. The table we have on TQ might not look pretty, but it's functional. The one on SiSi, not so much. For those of us who are relatively new to scanning, can someone please briefly explain why sorting by distance when combat probing matters so much? You have a friendly fleet of oracles fighting a hostile fleet of oracles, there is also a third fleet of oracles inside a pos nearby that's within combat scan range. Distance is the only way to decipher which fleet you're going to be warping to, distance is the only way to decide which signatures you ignore and which you do not. I can only imagine the pain of the oracle FCs as they attempt to warp at each other just to find out that the probe results they're using are their own fleet and nothing happens because they cannot tell the distance.
Thank you very much for the response. I've typically used dscanning and proximity to celestials as landmarks for this purpose, but it seems like this may be faster? |
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Suicidal Blonde
Alchemical Aquisitions
35
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Posted - 2013.05.09 19:13:00 -
[351] - Quote
Amy Garzan wrote:Do not like that we are not reimbursed for multiplier change.
Do not like that you have to launch 7 probes
Do not like that you effectively have to use addon mods to get the same results that used to get with pure skills.
this |
Jim Orland
Furyan Federation Fade 2 Black
7
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Posted - 2013.05.09 19:13:00 -
[352] - Quote
LHA Tarawa wrote:Seems to me a lot of unintended psudo-exploits were developed over the years.
1) using the signal strength to know the sig type without actually probing to 50%. 2) launching probes, then leaving them preset in desired formation, to come back and reconnect to later.
CCP seems to be "messing with" some of those unintended uses of probes, and people ain't happy about it.
This is BS. Memorizing or writing down the base strengths of different kinds of signatures is no more an exploit than remembering that Tama, OMS, Rancer, and Mara are usually gatecamped.
Nor is leaving probes out and reconnecting to them later. "Emergent gameplay using existing mechanics" isn't a "pseudo-exploit" - it's the way that this game is supposed to work. If CCP only wanted reconnection to work in cases of disconnection, they could easily add conditionals to the reconnection function that would only let reconnection work if you recently connected. |
Lyhanee Rinah
V0LTA Verge of Collapse
7
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Posted - 2013.05.09 19:15:00 -
[353] - Quote
Most of my fellow WH dwellers already mentioned the most important things as please not remove DSP and the 8th probe, but my biggest concern is missing ability to order things the way I want:
- Order results by strength OR alphabetically. Alphabetically is useful if you have large resultlists (WHs) and need to only look for specific new signatures (which happens to WHler all the time).
- Don't automatically recall. This is one of the "you have to know"-things. It enables additional tactics such as jumping out with probes deployed, jump back, reconnect and instantly scan (e.g. for super capital logging in). Loosing 7 core probes I isn't a biggy for a new player if you missed to recall it, loosing 7 RSS/Sister probes for a professional is embarrassing and he deserved to get laughed at by his Corp for begging someone to come and bring him new.
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Haulie Berry
616
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Posted - 2013.05.09 19:30:00 -
[354] - Quote
Suicidal Blonde wrote:Amy Garzan wrote:Do not like that we are not reimbursed for multiplier change.
Do not like that you have to launch 7 probes
Do not like that you effectively have to use addon mods to get the same results that used to get with pure skills. this
1. Why would you be compensated for the skill changes? When have they EVER refunded SPs without removing a skill wholesale?
2. There is a valid concern regarding the 7 probe thing.
3. You do not have to use addon mods to get the same results that you used to get with pure skills.
So you just reiterated something that was 66(.666666)% bull ****. Well done. |
Cage Man
202
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Posted - 2013.05.09 19:34:00 -
[355] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:Cage Man wrote:I don't understand why those of us who did the long train to use deep space probes can't be reimbursed in some form. Pilots who have done BC5 and destroyer 5, capital pilots, etc will reap the benefits and still be able to fly what they used to, but those of us who trained to be able to use one special probe have essentially wasted our time as they will be removed, these skills have no use elsewhere.. The skill now gives a bonus to scan strength, deviation and speed. The only way Astrometrics 5 doesn't give you a bonus after the change is if you stop scanning.
I shall repeat what I said.. I only trained it to use the DSP to speed up my exploration times. Prior to that I had no need for it.. I was able to scan everything in high, low, null and wh's without it before.. and I can bet it can be done without it after the patch. If you trained BS5 for a carrier.. you can still use it for marauders and blops, I have no need to have the skill to level 5 now. CCP is removing something many of us specifically trained for which really adds no value anymore..
Oh PLEASE!!! CCP Fozzie Can I haz a Navy moa....... |
Sipphakta en Gravonere
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
68
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Posted - 2013.05.09 19:37:00 -
[356] - Quote
Cage Man wrote: If you trained BS5 for a carrier.. you can still use it for marauders and blops, I have no need to have the skill to level 5 now. CCP is removing something many of us specifically trained for which really adds no value anymore..
If you trained Astrometrics5 for DSPs.. you can still use it for Jump Portal Generation and Tech2 Launchers. There is absolutely no need to reimburse you any points. I wish I were a cat. That way, I could kill things and people would applaud - instead of screaming out "OH GOD NO, NOT MY DAUGHTER!" |
Two step
Aperture Harmonics K162
3726
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Posted - 2013.05.09 19:38:00 -
[357] - Quote
Unforgiven Storm wrote:After I tested this and read this thread I only have one question in my mind:
Did anyone in this team bother to talk with the CSM at all before you implement this?
Two Step for sure knows and uses probs everyday and could have told you how bad this new system/changes were, even before you wasted time implementing them.
4 weeks to go, 2/3? before a code freeze?
If this hits singularity like it is, its going to be another s**t storm similar the inventory window one.
/facepalm
I'll answer that, and as you might have expected, the answer is no, CSM was not consulted about these changes. We found out in an article on themittani.com that we would be able to save probe formations. We found out at Fanfest about the probe results UI. We found out about the 7 probes/removal of DSPs from this thread. CSM 7 Secretary CSM 6 Alternate Delegate @two_step_eve on Twitter My Blog
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Cage Man
202
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Posted - 2013.05.09 19:38:00 -
[358] - Quote
Terrorfrodo wrote:I think there is more consideration behind the changes than many here realize.
CCP decided that scanning should become easier and faster in general. It's legitimate to disagree with this goal, but that is what they want. I for my part support this goal because I believe it can bring more players into w-space who are now put off because they don't like scanning.
You have this way wrong.. spend time in the npc and noob chats.. players have no problems with the scanning.. they fear the being blown up part.. which is what you, and I know I used to do to anyone entering your wh
Oh PLEASE!!! CCP Fozzie Can I haz a Navy moa....... |
Omnathious Deninard
The Scope Gallente Federation
976
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Posted - 2013.05.09 19:43:00 -
[359] - Quote
I was proud of, and my corp mates were quite impressed with my ability to scan as well as I could at only 1 month old. The old scanning method was something that just made sense to me. This new on makes sense also, it just removes the natural talent that great scanners had. Ideas For Drone Improvement Repourpose Deep Space Scanner Probes |
Robus Muvila
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
283
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Posted - 2013.05.09 19:43:00 -
[360] - Quote
Two step wrote: CSM was not consulted about these changes. We found out in an article on themittani.com
hahahahahahahahahahahahaha TMC Senior Developer http://themittani.com - Because EvE has needed a proper news site for ages |
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