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Omnathious Deninard
The Scope Gallente Federation
1042
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Posted - 2013.05.20 15:18:00 -
[1] - Quote
I understand the 3/10 and 4/10 complexes are being changed to not allow T3 ships, but is there any other Complexes that are being changed? Will unrated complexes stay the same? Will pirate and navy ships be allowed in 3/10 and 4/10 complexes still? Ideas For Drone Improvement Repourpose Deep Space Scanner Probes |
Tzu Wu
The 51st Corp The 51st Alliance of Internet Spaceship Pilots
5
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Posted - 2013.05.20 17:35:00 -
[2] - Quote
Testing a Guristas Watch now.Tengu allowed in.Site seems to work exactly the same. |
Omnathious Deninard
The Scope Gallente Federation
1042
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Posted - 2013.05.20 20:12:00 -
[3] - Quote
Thanks for looking into that, if eve wiki is correct a T3 should be able to enter a lookout, once I am able to get on again I will try to find one.
I am also curious about a point that was brought up in another thread, why is it that T3 ships were barred from 3/10 & 4/10 complexes but level 4 missions have not been touched? And incursions have not need touched either? What makes farming those any different than complexes? Ideas For Drone Improvement Repourpose Deep Space Scanner Probes |
Traiori
New Eden Renegades
19
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Posted - 2013.05.20 20:43:00 -
[4] - Quote
I think in the spirit of these changes, marauderers should be locked out of all level 3 and level 4 missions. Obviously pilots who have taken the time to train the skillpoints and invested the ISK to optimise their ships for running missions are creating unfair competition in hisec for Loyalty Points and they should only be allowed to compete against other similarly advanced players in losec. Maruderers are over powered for L4 missions and I see no reason why these should be allowed to farm unhindered. |
Molinator Agnon
X-Type Prospectors
26
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Posted - 2013.05.21 02:29:00 -
[5] - Quote
Traiori wrote:unfair competition in hisec for Loyalty Points competition is not 'fair' and eve would be a dreary place without it.
loyalty point conversions to isk will ebb and flow with or without marauders in high sec mission pockets.
beyond that, machariels are right up there with efficiency at clearing level 4s if LP is your concern. let's go ahead and restrict pirate faction battleships from mission pockets too, since it's also not fair.
there are more elegant ways to get people into other securities of space. |
Wenthrial Solamar
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
12
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Posted - 2013.05.21 03:46:00 -
[6] - Quote
I'm not sure which of the two previous posts I love more :)
+1 to Banning Marauders from DED 3/4's and lvl4 Missions, it is really game breaking the way it is now.
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marVLs
159
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Posted - 2013.05.21 06:05:00 -
[7] - Quote
Traiori wrote:I think in the spirit of these changes, marauderers should be locked out of all level 3 and level 4 missions. Obviously pilots who have taken the time to train the skillpoints and invested the ISK to optimise their ships for running missions are creating unfair competition in hisec for Loyalty Points and they should only be allowed to compete against other similarly advanced players in losec. Maruderers are over powered for L4 missions and I see no reason why these should be allowed to farm unhindered.
Please just no more derp ideas from You... |
Noztra Ernaga
m o t i o n
14
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Posted - 2013.05.21 07:53:00 -
[8] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:Thanks for looking into that, if eve wiki is correct a T3 should be able to enter a lookout, once I am able to get on again I will try to find one.
I am also curious about a point that was brought up in another thread, why is it that T3 ships were barred from 3/10 & 4/10 complexes but level 4 missions have not been touched? And incursions have not need touched either? What makes farming those any different than complexes?
I think the reason is that a mission is just for you, you don't compete with anyone, so just fly whatever you want.
After my initial rage I simply accept the banned Tengu as a fact and am gonna adapt. Probably Navy Cruiser, T2 Cruiser or BC... We will have less scan strength, but considering all those scanning changes making our life easier, I believethe situation will not change that much.
The problem is more than 2 months of training wasted, but it is a different story, maybe one day the tengu will be useful to me once again. |
Omnathious Deninard
The Scope Gallente Federation
1046
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Posted - 2013.05.21 11:40:00 -
[9] - Quote
Adaptability is not the issue here, what is the problem with this change is it does not address the actual issue at all. HAC, with the exception of one, will all be able to fit a probe launcher and a full rack of guns it will move the issue from one ship to the next. Soon people will be complaining about HAC farming complexes in high sec. Ideas For Drone Improvement Repourpose Deep Space Scanner Probes |
Rob Crowley
State War Academy
53
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Posted - 2013.05.21 12:10:00 -
[10] - Quote
This change is a joke in my opinion. Let me get this straight: the ship designed for exploration was too good at exploration so now we arbitrarily forbid it to enter sites which were designed for even bigger ships (and still allow those bigger ships). Did I get that right?
IMO you're doing it wrong though, cause as has already been pointed out the T3s will just shift to HACs or similar stuff that will still beat the crap out of noobs.
So I propose this instead: characters older than 150 days are not allowed in hisec exploration sites anymore. This could be a trial balloon for the next expansion in which you could broaden this approach to all hisec activities. The name of that expansion could be Eve: Exodus, doesn't that have a nice ring to it? This not only solves the problem of noobs having too much annoying competition in hisec, it would also reinvigorate lowsec like nothing else. |
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Omnathious Deninard
The Scope Gallente Federation
1046
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Posted - 2013.05.21 12:51:00 -
[11] - Quote
I also don't like the fact that tis bars the T3 form over half the complexes in low sec also Ideas For Drone Improvement Repourpose Deep Space Scanner Probes |
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
134
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Posted - 2013.05.21 13:31:00 -
[12] - Quote
"Eliminating T3s will just shift the complaints to HACs"
Probably just best to ban anything except T1 frigates from all sites 4/10 and below. Maybe those are too powerful and we should just restrict them to shuttles. Shuttles can't even find DED plexes, so that should be perfectly balanced. |
Ling Gong Chen
ALL THE LONELY PEOPLE
1
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Posted - 2013.05.21 13:36:00 -
[13] - Quote
Rob Crowley wrote:This change is a joke in my opinion. Let me get this straight: the ship designed for exploration was too good at exploration so now we arbitrarily forbid it to enter sites which were designed for even bigger ships (and still allow those bigger ships). Did I get that right?
IMO you're doing it wrong though, cause as has already been pointed out the T3s will just shift to HACs or similar stuff that will still beat the crap out of noobs.
So I propose this instead: characters older than 150 days are not allowed in hisec exploration sites anymore. This could be a trial balloon for the next expansion in which you could broaden this approach to all hisec activities. The name of that expansion could be Eve: Exodus, doesn't that have a nice ring to it? This not only solves the problem of noobs having too much annoying competition in hisec, it would also reinvigorate lowsec like nothing else.
Then I guess you did not probe enough in high sec in last few days. CCP did not just banned T3 out of 3/4/10 but also reduced a high scale of cosmic signatures. Certainly we can use HAC instead of T3 even if that will cut our efficiency a lot, but everything we do would be pointless when there is nothing to scan at all. And I am not just talking about highsec signature reduce, but the whole damn universe is technically a "clear sky". So far odessey is such hell of a joke. How could we fulfill the idea of exploration when there is nothing to explore? |
Ling Gong Chen
ALL THE LONELY PEOPLE
1
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Posted - 2013.05.21 14:17:00 -
[14] - Quote
What I thinking is CCP is apparently trying to marginalize all the free players. Exploration was a very good way to earn easy isks. Many people, like me, actually pay our plex by doing this. Remember all those fixed position 1/2/10 in highsec? That was such an increadible way to make money. You just need to do this for 3-4 days a month and you could easily earn a plex for next month, or even the month after. It was gunned down in retribution after all. However we still got 3/4/10 in highsec, honestly lots of them. Everynight you check out the universe you will see tons of T3 flying in space looking for signatures. And this is not just happening in highsec. In nullsec people did the same thing every moment as well. Although these people are not solo players but they could earn 2 or 3 months plex just in one day. Imagine these people are all having fun just as the actual paying players and they can do this all the time until they get bored by this game. For CCP these people are not giving any contribution to their income and this is totally intolerable. Step one they have taken out of 1/2/10 in the last version and now step two is gonna be the whole universe all together. And this is far from over--there will be a step 3. |
Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
5011
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Posted - 2013.05.21 14:27:00 -
[15] - Quote
Ling Gong Chen wrote:What I thinking is CCP is apparently trying to marginalize all the free players. Exploration was a very good way to earn easy isks. Many people, like me, actually pay our plex by doing this. Remember all those fixed position 1/2/10 in highsec? That was such an increadible way to make money. You just need to do this for 3-4 days a month and you could easily earn a plex for next month, or even the month after. It was gunned down in retribution after all. However we still got 3/4/10 in highsec, honestly lots of them. Everynight you check out the universe you will see tons of T3 flying in space looking for signatures. And this is not just happening in highsec. In nullsec people did the same thing every moment as well. Although these people are not solo players but they could earn 2 or 3 months plex just in one day. Imagine these people are all having fun just as the actual paying players and they can do this all the time until they get bored by this game. For CCP these people are not giving any contribution to their income and this is totally intolerable. Step one they have taken out of 1/2/10 in the last version and now step two is gonna be the whole universe all together. And this is far from over--there will be a step 3. That makes absolutely no sense. People who sub through PLEX end up making more money for CCP then people who pay their subs directly.
Noztra Ernaga wrote: I think the reason is that a mission is just for you, you don't compete with anyone, so just fly whatever you want.
After my initial rage I simply accept the banned Tengu as a fact and am gonna adapt. Probably Navy Cruiser, T2 Cruiser or BC... We will have less scan strength, but considering all those scanning changes making our life easier, I believethe situation will not change that much.
The problem is more than 2 months of training wasted, but it is a different story, maybe one day the tengu will be useful to me once again.
T3s will serve you very well when you finally decide to go exploring outside highsec. It's one of the main reason I love them, since with one ship and fit I could do anything from 3/10 to 6/10 without problems. Now it's no longer practical to try to do it all on one ship. |
Omnathious Deninard
The Scope Gallente Federation
1046
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Posted - 2013.05.21 14:42:00 -
[16] - Quote
Destination SkillQueue wrote: T3s will serve you very well when you finally decide to go exploring outside highsec. It's one of the main reason I love them, since with one ship and fit I could do anything from 3/10 to 6/10 without problems. Now it's no longer practical to try to do it all on one ship.
I believe this is the truth behind what they want to do. Which is a bunch of crap, the ships come from exploration space, are made using parts found by exploring, and are above all else designed to be used as exploration ships. Ideas For Drone Improvement Repourpose Deep Space Scanner Probes |
Ling Gong Chen
ALL THE LONELY PEOPLE
2
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Posted - 2013.05.22 01:45:00 -
[17] - Quote
Destination SkillQueue wrote: That makes absolutely no sense. People who sub through PLEX end up making more money for CCP then people who pay their subs directly.
T3s will serve you very well when you finally decide to go exploring outside highsec. It's one of the main reason I love them, since with one ship and fit I could do anything from 3/10 to 6/10 without problems. Now it's no longer practical to try to do it all on one ship.
Apparently you did not read my topic above the one you reply. When I am saying the space is technically a "clear sky", I actually mean it. By my observation since the latest patch the number of cosmic signatures reduce about 2/3. In the last few days I even make some tests, to run 10 random designed path which contain 20 systems in different hours. Guess how much DED I found totally in 200 systems? 8. 8 deds in 200 systems, I even count one 1/10 and two 2/10 in. For god's sake this is the SiSi which only have less than 200 people in the whole universe! Can you imagine what kind of view is that? Now think again, what can you do with your T3 when there is no ded for you to burst at all? I guess I should just saving my worlds. Go and fly a T1 scanning frigate and take a good look by your own eyes then you will know what I am really talking about. |
Amakish
EVE University Ivy League
0
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Posted - 2013.05.22 02:27:00 -
[18] - Quote
banning t3's from hi sec ded sites is the single most stupid thing i have ever heard....
if the reason is "balance" then go f*ck yourself.... eve is eve, it was never balanced or fair to begin with!
dont mess with peoples choices! |
Roime
Ten Thousand Years Shinjiketo
2904
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 05:39:00 -
[19] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:Destination SkillQueue wrote: T3s will serve you very well when you finally decide to go exploring outside highsec. It's one of the main reason I love them, since with one ship and fit I could do anything from 3/10 to 6/10 without problems. Now it's no longer practical to try to do it all on one ship.
I believe this is the truth behind what they want to do. Which is a bunch of crap, the ships come from exploration space, are made using parts found by exploring, and are above all else designed to be used as exploration ships.
Except they are not designed above else for exploration. They are modular ships and exploration is no more their focus than is combat, RR or EWAR.
I agree this doesn't solve the issues, far better solution would be to move all 4/10s from hisec to lowsec, and copy 3/10s to lowsec, and ban T3s from hisec completely.
-á- All I really wanted was to build a castle among the stars - |
Anabella Rella
Gradient Electus Matari
760
|
Posted - 2013.05.22 07:15:00 -
[20] - Quote
Roime wrote:
Except they are not designed above else for exploration. They are modular ships and exploration is no more their focus than is combat, RR or EWAR.
I agree this doesn't solve the issues, far better solution would be to move all 4/10s from hisec to lowsec, and copy 3/10s to lowsec, and ban T3s from hisec completely.
Are you serious? Are you another of the zealot brigade that wants to nerf the living hell out of high sec in order to "encourage" people to move to low and null to be your target practice? Want to make high sec a newbie only starting place where no one can make decent money? Limit everyone to noobships and T1 frigs?
CCP's already nerfed high sec income multiple times. They removed L5 missions, lowered the amount of mission loot, drastically reduced the amount of salvage materials from wrecks, removed the static plexes, nerfed incursions, etc. Then there are the player driven risk factors like suicide gankers, can flippers, ninja looters, wardecs. The risks vs rewards in high sec are pretty well balanced. Attempting to force people to play the game the way you think it should be played, by making it harder to earn isk in high sec, won't make people move. It will just make them move on to another game. It would also make people like me, who earn money in high sec so we can afford our low sec combat habits, less willing to risk shiny ships since it would be harder to replace them. Sorry, I'm not in one of those big alliances that hands out replacement gear like candy.
Also, how would your idea stop people in low sec from similarly farming the sites?
I doubt CCP will take such a ham fisted approach as the ones you suggest. It would just alienate a bunch of customers that I'm sure they would like to keep happy and paying. CCP is in business to make money. The way they do that is by growing the customer base, not making the game a miserable experience for them and driving them away. What you want is irrelevant, what you've chosen is at hand. |
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Rob Crowley
State War Academy
54
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Posted - 2013.05.22 08:34:00 -
[21] - Quote
Roime wrote:Except they are not designed above else for exploration. They are modular ships and exploration is no more their focus than is combat, RR or EWAR. Of course they were designed above else for exploration, namely w-space. That their modular structure allows them to be effective in many other roles is undisputed. |
Ling Gong Chen
ALL THE LONELY PEOPLE
2
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Posted - 2013.05.22 10:30:00 -
[22] - Quote
Anabella Rella wrote:
Are you serious? Are you another of the zealot brigade that wants to nerf the living hell out of high sec in order to "encourage" people to move to low and null to be your target practice? Want to make high sec a newbie only starting place where no one can make decent money? Limit everyone to noobships and T1 frigs?
CCP's already nerfed high sec income multiple times. They removed L5 missions, lowered the amount of mission loot, drastically reduced the amount of salvage materials from wrecks, removed the static plexes, nerfed incursions, etc. Then there are the player driven risk factors like suicide gankers, can flippers, ninja looters, wardecs. The risks vs rewards in high sec are pretty well balanced. Attempting to force people to play the game the way you think it should be played, by making it harder to earn isk in high sec, won't make people move. It will just make them move on to another game. It would also make people like me, who earn money in high sec so we can afford our low sec combat habits, less willing to risk shiny ships since it would be harder to replace them. Sorry, I'm not in one of those big alliances that hands out replacement gear like candy.
Also, how would your idea stop people in low sec from similarly farming the sites?
I doubt CCP will take such a ham fisted approach as the ones you suggest. It would just alienate a bunch of customers that I'm sure they would like to keep happy and paying. CCP is in business to make money. The way they do that is by growing the customer base, not making the game a miserable experience for them and driving them away.
Finally someone realize what's going on right now. All those people who agree with the changes now are definitely not benefit from the old situation and that is why they want changes. Since the beginning they don't earn isk from high sec then how could we expect them to disagree the further nerf in high sec incomes? I'm taking a wild guess now. CCP is gonna kick all the high sec residences back to mining and lvl 4. Oh by the way, considered the amount of cosmic signature right now I don't think the high sec residences are the only victims. For what I am seeing CCP is also trying to push low sec residences to FW, for they don't have a better way to earn money. |
Noztra Ernaga
m o t i o n
14
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Posted - 2013.05.22 16:08:00 -
[23] - Quote
Ling Gong Chen wrote:Oh by the way, considered the amount of cosmic signature right now I don't think the high sec residences are the only victims. For what I am seeing CCP is also trying to push low sec residences to FW, for they don't have a better way to earn money.
What exactly does that mean? Are you telling us that the signature count on SiSi is vastly reduced in high-sec compared to current state on Tranqulity? :( |
Ling Gong Chen
ALL THE LONELY PEOPLE
2
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Posted - 2013.05.23 12:32:00 -
[24] - Quote
Noztra Ernaga wrote:Ling Gong Chen wrote:Oh by the way, considered the amount of cosmic signature right now I don't think the high sec residences are the only victims. For what I am seeing CCP is also trying to push low sec residences to FW, for they don't have a better way to earn money. What exactly does that mean? Are you telling us that the signature count on SiSi is vastly reduced in high-sec compared to current state on Tranqulity? :(
Not just in high sec, but the whole universe. If you ever live as a scanning player you must remember that every day will find tons of wormholes during our path, almost 8 wormholes in 10 systems, but now you could only find 2 or 3. Can you imagine the feeling that I actually missing those wormholes when I flying in SiSi universe? |
Molinator Agnon
X-Type Prospectors
27
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Posted - 2013.05.23 13:30:00 -
[25] - Quote
Ling Gong Chen wrote:Not just in high sec, but the whole universe. If you ever live as a scanning player you must remember that every day will find tons of wormholes during our path, almost 8 wormholes in 10 systems, but now you could only find 2 or 3. Can you imagine the feeling that I actually missing those wormholes when I flying in SiSi universe? http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Project_Snapshot
there's a lot to read there - but the basic gist is that a snapshot of wormholes across all of high sec space was done, and the predicted number of K162s was much lower than expected - 6.5 stdevs from the expected result using a binomial distribution. it supports the theory that the exit side of a high sec static (from a WH system) doesn't actually materialize until it's scanned down the from the inside*
the reduced number of signatures/WHs on the test server would most likely be explained by this fact, along with the realization that it's unlikely that a wormhole resident would log onto the test server only to stay inside their wormhole, mimicking their routines - they'll likely get to empire to try out the new stuff.
so basically it's just the lack of active wormhole residents scanning down exits to high sec on a daily basis like they do on TQ.
* - the deviation from the expected value on TQ is speculated to be due to the fact that a lot of class 1 wormholes with high sec statics are not occupied, so their exit WHs simply do not appear in high sec at all. |
Boltorano
Owner Operated Transport Service
29
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Posted - 2013.05.23 14:34:00 -
[26] - Quote
Lack of signatures on Sisi, especially K162s in k-space is nothing new. Resume normal activity. |
Rob Crowley
State War Academy
57
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Posted - 2013.05.23 21:17:00 -
[27] - Quote
Forget about amount of signatures on SiSi, I'd still like some dev word on the original topic of this thread. |
Zeradn
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
10
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Posted - 2013.05.23 22:58:00 -
[28] - Quote
This change is really saddening. I really love T3s. If they get banned from DED 4s, then only the higher ones will remain. Going to lo-sec and doing DED 5 in a T3 fit with a cloak and probe launcher is near reckless. With two hi-slots gone, you won't have enough dps for most of the higher sites. With omni-tank, you will be too occupied micromanaging the tank to keep alert for hostiles. Also, almost everyone in lo-sec is on the lookout for a juicy PvE-fit T3 kill. Every one from a frig pilot to a BS pilot will try to jump you if they get a chance.
I hope they leave atleast the non-DED combat sites alone. It would be helpful if they bring back the 4/10. 3/10, even though they drop the occasional A-Type mods, were really not suitable for T3 dps levels (talk about op) |
Roime
Ten Thousand Years Shinjiketo
2939
|
Posted - 2013.05.23 23:57:00 -
[29] - Quote
Anabella Rella wrote: Are you serious? Are you another of the zealot brigade that wants to nerf the living hell out of high sec in order to "encourage" people to move to low and null to be your target practice? Want to make high sec a newbie only starting place where no one can make decent money? Limit everyone to noobships and T1 frigs?
Blinded by your prejudices, bound by your narrow mind?
I want to make hisec safer and more rewarding for new players so they stay in the game long enough to understand it, and emphasize hisecs role as the tutorial area. I'd like new players to see low, null and wormholes as opportunities to experience the sandbox, complete and amazing with all it's intangible rewards, and look forward to the day when they are ready to handle it.
Hisec mechanics are necessary for creating a safe zone for new players who don't yet have any social contacts in the game. However, they also limit the gameplay options available. Operating within these limitations and chasing the rewards familiar from other, different games results in a shallow experience, I'd just like to improve the chances that everybody gets to taste the depth of this unique virtual universe.
Hisec as it is attracts players who want nothing to do with the sandbox, and the rift between this group and the core EVE playerbase is unproductive for everyone. CCP is stuck between their customers, who love their galactic sandbox and desire for more sand and others to build and destroy sandcastles with, and those who want just another generic MMO but with spaceships.
If you want to see low & nullseccers as evil zealots, I can't help you. It's up to you to open your eyes.
-á- All I really wanted was to build a castle among the stars - |
Roime
Ten Thousand Years Shinjiketo
2939
|
Posted - 2013.05.24 00:03:00 -
[30] - Quote
Rob Crowley wrote:Roime wrote:Except they are not designed above else for exploration. They are modular ships and exploration is no more their focus than is combat, RR or EWAR. Of course they were designed above else for exploration, namely w-space. That their modular structure allows them to be effective in many other roles is undisputed.
No they weren't, Zephyr was the ship designed for w-space exploration. Strategic cruisers were the first manifestation of tech 3, which was supposed to be expanded to other ship classes, and it's main feature is modularity. Scanning subsystem is just one of many.
-á- All I really wanted was to build a castle among the stars - |
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