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Sir Substance
Tactical Knightmare
95
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Posted - 2011.10.22 12:41:00 -
[1] - Quote
I notice that certain blinkered people still think that the recent changes are the result of a vocal minority whining on the forums rather then a majority voting with their wallet, as requested.
I ask you the following question:
If the majority of players want Incarna, why are they not protesting this new change of heart? All I hear from them is silence.
Those of you who supported Incarna. You are the minority, by a clear margin. Sorry to burst your bubble.
The rest of you, the ones who chose to make no choice. You didn't vote when the vote was on. Your opinion is irrelevant. I have no idea if you are a majority or a minority within the overall playerbase, but since you never say anything, I'll never know, and I'll never care, because you'll never matter.
Of the people that did vote, the majority was us, and I thank my fellow pilots, one and all.
Discuss. |
Rhaegor Stormborn
BURN EDEN Northern Coalition.
126
|
Posted - 2011.10.22 12:43:00 -
[2] - Quote
Sir Substance wrote:I notice that certain blinkered people still think that the recent changes are the result of a vocal minority whining on the forums rather then a majority voting with their wallet, as requested.
I ask you the following question:
If the majority of players want Incarna, why are they not protesting this new change of heart? All I hear from them is silence.
Those of you who supported Incarna. You are the minority, by a clear margin. Sorry to burst your bubble.
The rest of you, the ones who chose to make no choice. You didn't vote when the vote was on. Your opinion is irrelevant. I have no idea if you are a majority or a minority within the overall playerbase, but since you never say anything, I'll never know, and I'll never care, because you'll never matter.
Of the people that did vote, the majority was us, and I thank my fellow pilots, one and all.
Discuss.
The internet spaceship pilots who have been PvPing for years are what keeps Eve alive. We spoke with our subscriptions. CCP knows it, and thus the focus on internet spaceships, primarily for PvPers, but the changes will benefit empire carebears as well. |
ITTigerClawIK
Galactic Rangers Galactic-Rangers
28
|
Posted - 2011.10.22 12:47:00 -
[3] - Quote
If everyone who wanted dressup barbie in station left the game right now i am 99.9% sure NOONE would notice a difference as there would still be the exact same amount of folks in space..... just a reduction of people in local as im sure they dont leave station that often. |
Whyumadtho
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
9
|
Posted - 2011.10.22 12:49:00 -
[4] - Quote
Theres 2 types of people in Eve.
Bitter vets or vocal minoritys.
Lol internet forums. |
Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
21
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Posted - 2011.10.22 12:49:00 -
[5] - Quote
First of all
INCARNA the original spirit of such i guess it was called ambulation or something was greatly supported.
Second thing SC nerfs and some other **** is basically null sec. political struggle in other words who can look "cute" with his dog got the point.
More ships and some graphics etc. is allways good.
FW / cant answer that change since i am not the right one for it. But i hope it will actually get meaningful/ same as null sec politics but with high/low sec.
Stop Incarna well many people are misinformed i guess. What people where asking was finished Incarna but first of all fix the gallante hulls or hybrid turets systems
In due time nobody will be satisfied and everything will be there.
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Caulk H0lster
Kazakh Ministry of Wealth Redistribution
10
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Posted - 2011.10.22 12:53:00 -
[6] - Quote
IMHO, CCP should make a sub-forum for Incarna, and move all threads brimming with tears over it's demise into said sub-forum, so we can continue discussing SPACESHIPS in a constructive manner on this forum. |
Elise DarkStar
DarkCorp Capital Group DarkCorp Imperium
80
|
Posted - 2011.10.22 12:53:00 -
[7] - Quote
I think most people are fine with or indifferent to incarna in theory. The problems were that it came at the cost of much-needed fixes throughout the actual spaceship game and the actual incarna content itself was ******* awful. Don;t do it at the expense of ignoring much needed work on the spaceship game and especially dont do a ****** job on the incarna that you do produce.
Pretty simple. You don't need a crack team of high-powered executives to figure this out. |
DarkAegix
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
124
|
Posted - 2011.10.22 12:56:00 -
[8] - Quote
The OP doesn't quite get it, nor do many other posters on these forums. Here's a breakdown with some imaginary numbers: 20% of EVE population: Vocal FiSers 10% of EVE population: Vocal WiSers 70% of EVE population: Quiet We-Don't-Care-What-CCP-Do-Because-We-Like-Or-Accept-It-All-ers
I'm part of that 3rd group, as I'm sure many other players are. Most wouldn't post because they're not as...opinionated....as the other groups.
EVE is not split into two distinct groups. |
March rabbit
Ganse Shadow of xXDEATHXx
17
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Posted - 2011.10.22 12:59:00 -
[9] - Quote
to OP: you are great!
btw: what is this thread about?
oh... i see.... one more thread "Mommy look at me! I'm important!". Sorry to burst your bubbles guys. You are not important.... |
Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
21
|
Posted - 2011.10.22 12:59:00 -
[10] - Quote
DarkAegix wrote:The OP doesn't quite get it, nor do many other posters on these forums. Here's a breakdown with some imaginary numbers: 20% of EVE population: Vocal FiSers 10% of EVE population: Vocal WiSers 70% of EVE population: Quiet We-Don't-Care-What-CCP-Do-Because-We-Like-Or-Accept-It-All-ers
I'm part of that 3rd group, as I'm sure many other players are. Most wouldn't post because they're not as...opinionated....as the other groups.
EVE is not split into two distinct groups.
Well yes but i would rather not talk about concepts of forum posters, vocal minority, smart minority and other players... Because in the end everyone is correct. Its all strongly subjective with no real end.
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Caulk H0lster
Kazakh Ministry of Wealth Redistribution
11
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Posted - 2011.10.22 13:00:00 -
[11] - Quote
DarkAegix wrote:The OP doesn't quite get it, nor do many other posters on these forums. Here's a breakdown with some imaginary numbers: 20% of EVE population: Vocal FiSers 10% of EVE population: Vocal WiSers 70% of EVE population: Quiet We-Don't-Care-What-CCP-Do-Because-We-Like-Or-Accept-It-All-ers
I'm part of that 3rd group, as I'm sure many other players are. Most wouldn't post because they're not as...opinionated....as the other groups.
EVE is not split into two distinct groups.
Except out of that 70%, huge numbers unsubbed over the past year because they weren't happy with the direction EVE is going, without ever saying a word on these forums. Clearly they weren't wiling to just "accept whatever ccp does" and live with it, they just *left*. |
Sir Substance
Tactical Knightmare
96
|
Posted - 2011.10.22 13:01:00 -
[12] - Quote
DarkAegix wrote:
I'm part of that 3rd group, as I'm sure many other players are. Most wouldn't post because they're not as...opinionated....as the other groups.
EVE is not split into two distinct groups.
This more or less sums up my opinion on people who choose not to vote because they don't have strong opinions:
Anchovies |
Heimdallofasgard
APEX ARDENT COALITION NEM3SIS.
25
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Posted - 2011.10.22 13:11:00 -
[13] - Quote
Caulk H0lster wrote:IMHO, CCP should make a sub-forum for Incarna, and move all threads brimming with tears over it's demise into said sub-forum, so we can continue discussing SPACESHIPS in a constructive manner on this forum.
This ^^ Sub forum for WiS discussion :D
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Heimdallofasgard
APEX ARDENT COALITION NEM3SIS.
25
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Posted - 2011.10.22 13:12:00 -
[14] - Quote
Caulk H0lster wrote:DarkAegix wrote:The OP doesn't quite get it, nor do many other posters on these forums. Here's a breakdown with some imaginary numbers: 20% of EVE population: Vocal FiSers 10% of EVE population: Vocal WiSers 70% of EVE population: Quiet We-Don't-Care-What-CCP-Do-Because-We-Like-Or-Accept-It-All-ers
I'm part of that 3rd group, as I'm sure many other players are. Most wouldn't post because they're not as...opinionated....as the other groups.
EVE is not split into two distinct groups. Except out of that 70%, huge numbers unsubbed over the past year because they weren't happy with the direction EVE is going, without ever saying a word on these forums. Clearly they weren't wiling to just "accept whatever ccp does" and live with it, they just *left*.
Don't forget... ... ... the percentage of players who actually post on forums. |
Ann133566
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2011.10.22 13:14:00 -
[15] - Quote
Sir Substance wrote:I notice that certain blinkered people still think that the recent changes are the result of a vocal minority whining on the forums rather then a majority voting with their wallet, as requested.
I ask you the following question:
If the majority of players want Incarna, why are they not protesting this new change of heart? All I hear from them is silence.
Those of you who supported Incarna. You are the minority, by a clear margin. Sorry to burst your bubble.
The rest of you, the ones who chose to make no choice. You didn't vote when the vote was on. Your opinion is irrelevant. I have no idea if you are a majority or a minority within the overall playerbase, but since you never say anything, I'll never know, and I'll never care, because you'll never matter.
Of the people that did vote, the majority was us, and I thank my fellow pilots, one and all.
Discuss.
|
T-Jay Charante
The Scope Gallente Federation
10
|
Posted - 2011.10.22 13:19:00 -
[16] - Quote
Sir Substance wrote:I notice that certain blinkered people still think that the recent changes are the result of a vocal minority whining on the forums rather then a majority voting with their wallet, as requested.
I ask you the following question:
If the majority of players want Incarna, why are they not protesting this new change of heart? All I hear from them is silence.
Those of you who supported Incarna. You are the minority, by a clear margin. Sorry to burst your bubble.
The rest of you, the ones who chose to make no choice. You didn't vote when the vote was on. Your opinion is irrelevant. I have no idea if you are a majority or a minority within the overall playerbase, but since you never say anything, I'll never know, and I'll never care, because you'll never matter.
Of the people that did vote, the majority was us, and I thank my fellow pilots, one and all.
Discuss.
Why did it take pilots 5 years to protest? Walking in stations has been on the table since 2006.
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Caulk H0lster
Kazakh Ministry of Wealth Redistribution
12
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Posted - 2011.10.22 13:24:00 -
[17] - Quote
T-Jay Charante wrote:Sir Substance wrote:I notice that certain blinkered people still think that the recent changes are the result of a vocal minority whining on the forums rather then a majority voting with their wallet, as requested.
I ask you the following question:
If the majority of players want Incarna, why are they not protesting this new change of heart? All I hear from them is silence.
Those of you who supported Incarna. You are the minority, by a clear margin. Sorry to burst your bubble.
The rest of you, the ones who chose to make no choice. You didn't vote when the vote was on. Your opinion is irrelevant. I have no idea if you are a majority or a minority within the overall playerbase, but since you never say anything, I'll never know, and I'll never care, because you'll never matter.
Of the people that did vote, the majority was us, and I thank my fellow pilots, one and all.
Discuss. Why did it take pilots 5 years to protest? Walking in stations has been on the table since 2006.
Because it was in the past 12 months that this idea has actually been executed, and at the expense of neglecting pretty much anything gameplay related.
Before then, while WiS was on the table, it was not the focus, and CCP continued to provide meaningful gameplay updates on a regular basis. |
Ann133566
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2011.10.22 13:41:00 -
[18] - Quote
You are mistaken if you think there are any winners from the Incarna debacle. EVE lost a lot of credibility due to its failure and subsequent fallout. You may all feel vindicated that CCP has decided to refocus on FiS. The danger is that CCP may solely focus on null and WH space and forget the empire dweller, miners and builders as well as the noob players. Lets remember that Incarna was largely about attracting new players to the game and improving the noob experience, which tends to be disappointing, confusing and demoralising experience for them unless they get into a good corp and get support and incentives to keep playing.
As a recruiter and pvp trainer for a medium sized corp I can tell you from firsthand experience that in the last 6 months there has been a slow decline in the number of new players taking up the game and sticking with it. This is something that should concern us all, because without fresh blood the game will stagnate and die a slow death.
To be honest at first I was delighted with the announcement that CCP decided to refocus on FiS and put WiS on the backburner. However the more I reflect on it the more concerns I have and if IGÇÖm honest IGÇÖm wondering if we are throwing the baby out with the bathwater. just a thought.
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Elise DarkStar
DarkCorp Capital Group DarkCorp Imperium
81
|
Posted - 2011.10.22 13:58:00 -
[19] - Quote
Ann133566 wrote:To be honest at first I was delighted with the announcement that CCP decided to refocus on FiS and put WiS on the backburner. However the more I reflect on it the more concerns I have and if IGÇÖm honest IGÇÖm wondering if we are throwing the baby out with the bathwater. just a thought.
You are absolutely right to be concerned. This issue is really open-ended and hard to pin down with solid facts, so we have to rely on our impressions and those of others.
I think this game does need to be more noob-friendly and be able to draw from a much wider pool of players. However, they ultimately need first and foremost to be transitioning into that which makes Eve competitive with other games. This doesn't mean nullsec or even pvp, what it does mean is that people may come for fancy avatars, but they will not stay for fancy avatars and dull gameplay. You need that player-created content and you need new people to be transitioning into creating content for themselves and others while older players are leaving.
You can pack hisec full of noobs in goggles, but that is absolutely valueless if there is nothing for them to work towards beyond that. This hollowing of the core game is why people were so concerned by Incarna. A bunch of noobs in goggles is absolutely fantastic, if the core game is still producing that player-driven content that makes Eve competitive and new players are able and wanting to find a place in it.
The first step is to have a core game where you can compete, the second step is to have proper transitions for new players (which is the biggest challenge with Eve), and then and only then can an expansion of your playerbase have an effective and lasting impact.
One thing I am extremely confident of is that it is the player-driven content that makes Eve competitive. It is also what makes it a niche game that is unfriendly to new players, but that's something that can be addressed. If CCP tries to go up against Blizzard etc and loses its niche aspect that makes it competitive, it will die. I guarantee it. |
Caulk H0lster
Kazakh Ministry of Wealth Redistribution
13
|
Posted - 2011.10.22 14:01:00 -
[20] - Quote
m8, WiS is not the answer to get new people to play and stick with the game.
High-sec, low-sec and null are all CONNECTED and part of the same EVE universe. There isn't THAT much of a separation. The difference is the risk/reward ratio. It's fine if there's people that don't want to play EVE and have to deal with higher risk situations, and want to stay in highsec, but there is little desire from many players to risk their ships in lowsec or 0.0, because the incentives are just NOT THERE.
Further, gameplay and balance issues currently make it VERY difficult for younger players to find roles in PvP, especially meaningful roles in 0.0 PvP. It just takes years to get the skill points and flying skills necessary, as well as the ships and wealth necessary, to be successful. The current PvP landscape is challenging for older players to be competitive in if they don't have a supercap, let alone someone just getting started who has little isk, and who can't possibly fly two different fully T2 fit battleships.
IMHO, a huge part of the problem is the missing component of small gang PvP. No, it doesn't really prepare you for the big fleet actions in 0.0, but it gives younger players an outlet where they can learn how to think on their feet (in a spaceship), and frequently the corps who are successful in small gang warfare were more open to younger members, and were led by veterans who could pass on their knowledge. This component of PvP is now almost completely missing in EVE, because it's not particularly viable anymore. You can still get small gang fights in wormholes, or in lowsec, or faction war, but the problems still remain that many of the ships that made small gang warfare viable have been or are slated to be nerfed to the point where small gang PvPs risk generally outweighs the reward on the risk/reward thing, since it's so easy to get caught by a blob now, especially in 0.0. |
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Tanya Powers
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
47
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Posted - 2011.10.22 14:04:00 -
[21] - Quote
Sir Substance wrote:I notice that certain blinkered people still think that the recent changes are the result of a vocal minority whining on the forums rather then a majority voting with their wallet, as requested.
I ask you the following question:
If the majority of players want Incarna, why are they not protesting this new change of heart?
Because they are civilised people who respect others opinions and choices?
|
Large Collidable Object
morons.
387
|
Posted - 2011.10.22 14:04:00 -
[22] - Quote
Sir Substance wrote: If the majority of players want Incarna, why are they not protesting this new change of heart? All I hear from them is silence.
Those of you who supported Incarna. You are the minority, by a clear margin. Sorry to burst your bubble.
All so called incarna supporters were/are obvious trolls.
A person so thick starting to play a spaceship game to play dressup dolls would be too mentally challenged to turn a computer on. morons-áare recruiting. We're good at breeding! |
David Grogan
The Motley Crew Reborn
98
|
Posted - 2011.10.22 14:26:00 -
[23] - Quote
there is one simple way to find out how many want WiS or FiS
WiS or FiS survey Everytime you buy something that says "made in china" you are helping the rising unemployment in your own country unless your from china, Buy locally produced goods and help create more jobs. |
Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
13
|
Posted - 2011.10.22 14:29:00 -
[24] - Quote
Caulk H0lster wrote:m8, WiS is not the answer to get new people to play and stick with the game.
High-sec, low-sec and null are all CONNECTED and part of the same EVE universe. There isn't THAT much of a separation. The difference is the risk/reward ratio. It's fine if there's people that don't want to play EVE and have to deal with higher risk situations, and want to stay in highsec, but there is little desire from many players to risk their ships in lowsec or 0.0, because the incentives are just NOT THERE.
Further, gameplay and balance issues currently make it VERY difficult for younger players to find roles in PvP, especially meaningful roles in 0.0 PvP. It just takes years to get the skill points and flying skills necessary, as well as the ships and wealth necessary, to be successful. The current PvP landscape is challenging for older players to be competitive in if they don't have a supercap, let alone someone just getting started who has little isk, and who can't possibly fly two different fully T2 fit battleships.
IMHO, a huge part of the problem is the missing component of small gang PvP. No, it doesn't really prepare you for the big fleet actions in 0.0, but it gives younger players an outlet where they can learn how to think on their feet (in a spaceship), and frequently the corps who are successful in small gang warfare were more open to younger members, and were led by veterans who could pass on their knowledge. This component of PvP is now almost completely missing in EVE, because it's not particularly viable anymore. You can still get small gang fights in wormholes, or in lowsec, or faction war, but the problems still remain that many of the ships that made small gang warfare viable have been or are slated to be nerfed to the point where small gang PvPs risk generally outweighs the reward on the risk/reward thing, since it's so easy to get caught by a blob now, especially in 0.0.
Let's hope CCP does something for Summer 2012 in that area then.. shall we?
If CCP hadn't completely dropped the ball on FiS during the last 18+ months this debacle would have never happened, but they did.. Hilmar admits it and promises to do better in future. |
Soi Mala
Whacky Waving Inflatable Flailing Arm Tubemen
53
|
Posted - 2011.10.22 15:00:00 -
[25] - Quote
Buttes |
Lorimer
Burning Napalm Northern Coalition.
0
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Posted - 2011.10.22 15:38:00 -
[26] - Quote
I think we are missing an important point - namely the lack of high quality footwear in the Nex store With the current "lockstep" offering within the price range of the peons I suggest swift action to remedy this travesty We have been waiting for a Blaster fix for a couple of years anyway :p |
Azahni Vah'nos
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
53
|
Posted - 2011.10.22 16:08:00 -
[27] - Quote
Sir Substance wrote:I notice that certain blinkered people still think that the recent changes are the result of a vocal minority whining on the forums rather then a majority voting with their wallet, as requested.
I ask you the following question:
If the majority of players want Incarna, why are they not protesting this new change of heart? All I hear from them is silence.
Those of you who supported Incarna. You are the minority, by a clear margin. Sorry to burst your bubble.
The rest of you, the ones who chose to make no choice. You didn't vote when the vote was on. Your opinion is irrelevant. I have no idea if you are a majority or a minority within the overall playerbase, but since you never say anything, I'll never know, and I'll never care, because you'll never matter.
Of the people that did vote, the majority was us, and I thank my fellow pilots, one and all.
Discuss. So if I wanted to see Incarna in it's full implementation like what was shown with Ambulation, yet I cancelled my sub over monoclegate and wanting more FiS features, where do I fit in your neat little black and white view?
I think if everyone who had an 'interest' in Incarna left the game as you say, New Eden may be a very lonely place. There are plenty of people who want both, but when push comes to shove will side with FiS over WiS. Nex (Cash Shop)-á/ Aurum - removing sand from the sandbox since Incarna. Currently the only use for aurum is to buy virtual items in the in-game store, but Cockerill expects to expand its uses in the future. |
Alara IonStorm
Caldari State
125
|
Posted - 2011.10.22 16:23:00 -
[28] - Quote
DarkAegix wrote:The OP doesn't quite get it, nor do many other posters on these forums. Here's a breakdown with some imaginary numbers: 20% of EVE population: Vocal FiSers 10% of EVE population: Vocal WiSers 70% of EVE population: Quiet We-Don't-Care-What-CCP-Do-Because-We-Like-Or-Accept-It-All-ers
I'm part of that 3rd group, as I'm sure many other players are. Most wouldn't post because they're not as...opinionated....as the other groups.
EVE is not split into two distinct groups. Absolutely it is.
Decisions are made by those who show up. If the third group will continue to play no matter what.
Then honestly why should CCP give a F@#%.
So everything like Hybrid Changes and New Ships over a New Chat Room with Aurum Bar gets done by the first 2 that matter. |
Kengutsi Akira
78
|
Posted - 2011.10.22 16:28:00 -
[29] - Quote
Sir Substance wrote:I notice that certain blinkered people still think that the recent changes are the result of a vocal minority whining on the forums rather then a majority voting with their wallet, as requested.
I ask you the following question:
If the majority of players want Incarna, why are they not protesting this new change of heart? All I hear from them is silence.
Those of you who supported Incarna. You are the minority, by a clear margin. Sorry to burst your bubble.
The rest of you, the ones who chose to make no choice. You didn't vote when the vote was on. Your opinion is irrelevant. I have no idea if you are a majority or a minority within the overall playerbase, but since you never say anything, I'll never know, and I'll never care, because you'll never matter.
Of the people that did vote, the majority was us, and I thank my fellow pilots, one and all.
Discuss.
lol works the same way with the CSM an damn near anything thats gets revealed about the upcoming expansions. Theyre all over each other patting themselves on the back that it was all their ideas
I side with FiS cause for one there never should have been a term FiS cause Fis IS EVE as far as Im concerned. WiS is a side game I never intended on using.
Second, the thing thats always been a trademark to EVE is the internet spaceships pew pew not Avatars in a station. Everyone else has avatars. Let EVE be unique What Mittani wants, Mittani gets, Mittani help us all
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Khira Kitamatsu
243
|
Posted - 2011.10.22 16:41:00 -
[30] - Quote
Sir Substance wrote:I notice that certain blinkered people still think that the recent changes are the result of a vocal minority whining on the forums rather then a majority voting with their wallet, as requested.
I ask you the following question:
If the majority of players want Incarna, why are they not protesting this new change of heart? All I hear from them is silence.
Those of you who supported Incarna. You are the minority, by a clear margin. Sorry to burst your bubble.
The rest of you, the ones who chose to make no choice. You didn't vote when the vote was on. Your opinion is irrelevant. I have no idea if you are a majority or a minority within the overall playerbase, but since you never say anything, I'll never know, and I'll never care, because you'll never matter.
Of the people that did vote, the majority was us, and I thank my fellow pilots, one and all.
Discuss.
How much to I want WiS? I cancelled my accounts when I heard they put it on the back burner in favor of ship spinning, and working on null-sec. I spoke with my clutch. Ponies!-á We need more ponies! |
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