so, QC, about Crest, and Dust, and things, anymore info.

On topic, Sweet, thanks

what type of tools do you think this will enable people to build

(I know only very basic c programming and have absolutely no imagination)

Ones that pull statistics about the tournament maybe?

I'd say this is the first roll out of CREST. As far as Dust is concerned, I hope to give the Dust devs public crest capability right after the tournament. CCP Nullarbor just can't wait to get his hands on this, so I'd expect some goodies to come soon(ish)

Why are you using your own MIME type instead of application/json? Why are you using nginx 1.2 which has more holes than a golf course?

We use our own mime type to support being asked for different version of a resource by the clients. By sending in an accept header with the correct mimetype, say "application/vnd.eve.ccp.Tournament-v1" the server knows to return you that particular version. It allows us to release new versions of these resource and your client will keep working as long as we support the version you want.

I presume this will be done via a Accept-Encoding header in the client's request?

Also, will you be sending proper cache control headers in the responses?

For someone who doesn't have much experience working with this stuff (basically none ), is there an easy way of navigating through this stuff?

Specifically I was wanting to look at the results of the mock testing that happened the other week, but I honestly have no idea how to find it.

Some notes on this:
1) Halp, I clicked your link and my browser downloaded a weird file and I don't know what to do with it!!!
The CREST resources aren't webpages. Due to how we use mediatypes (See 9 below) you will in general need to use a browser plugin to see the data. I use Postman in Chrome ( https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/postman-rest-client/fdmmgilgnpjigdojojpjoooidkmcomcm ). Just head to whatever search engine you like and search for "MYBROWSER rest plugin" and you should be fine.

Just messing around with it. Finding the information you need to recreate what happened seems to be a daunting task. How close can some one get to re creating the broadcast UI in real time can some one get? The info to recreate the tournament broadcast UI data is all over the place.

Using the link you gave us in a reader just gives us a list of the data sets but does not give us the current key.

I haven't got everything in there needed to fully recreate the broadcast UI - I'll keep that in mind for the next iteration. Most of what is available in that vein is in the match's pilotStats URL, like for instance:

http://public-crest-duality.testeveonline.com/tournaments/2/series/0/matches/0/pilotstats/
Add in the info from the match itself:
http://public-crest-duality.testeveonline.com/tournaments/2/series/0/matches/0/
and you should be pretty much set.

At least, after I'm done updating Duality with my latest. ETA 20min.

Install that extension for Chrome, or another one for your browser, open it, and give it the URL of: http://public-crest-duality.testeveonline.com/tournaments/

I look forward to this. CREST makes me happy in the pants. And what other place is better to be happy than there? ;) As for those new to JSON, I would recommend picking your favorite language and learning to serialize and deserialize JSON. IF you use .NET, I would highly recommend JSON.NET because M$'s one kinda sucks. And by kinda sucks, I mean almost as bad as that Revenant loss. Python 2.7 and 3.x have pretty darn good native methods. As does PHP

I'm super excited to see this in motion, and I keep working to get all the other bits in place for Single Sign On and authenticated CREST access for 3rd party devs. (Developer pages and the Developer License). As you know it is taking longer than planned at the start of the project, but we are steadily working towards getting more and more of this in your hands.

/CCP Seagull

It begins.

"{
"message": "The route /tournaments/2/series/0 was not found, did you forget the trailing slash?",
"key": "routeMissing",
"exceptionType": "NotFoundError"
}"

thank you so much for this!

Hi all!

... stuff ...

11) I'm getting 503 errors!
You probably requested too fast. Wait a minute and try again. I'll be tweaking throttling parameters over the coming days, so I can't give exact values for this.

Disclaimers: (also edit!)
Please note that we are actively working on the tournaments/* endpoints. They are liable to change with no prior notice. They should also be quite stable before we reach TQ.

Docs are coming.

For how fast you can query, ideally don't request the same endpoint until at least max-age as passed, you'd get the same reply anyway, so there is really no reason. Apart from that just slow down if you get 503'd.

Did some brackets for the tournament based on this (match and team pages also). Hopefully everything works out when it gets going.


edit:

http://public-crest-duality.testeveonline.com/tournaments/1/pilots/92532513/
oh, whats the deal with this endpoint? Can't get anything but errors with it (tried multiple pilot/tournament combos)

Did some brackets for the tournament based on this (match and team pages also). Hopefully everything works out when it gets going.


edit:

http://public-crest-duality.testeveonline.com/tournaments/1/pilots/92532513/
oh, whats the deal with this endpoint? Can't get anything but errors with it (tried multiple pilot/tournament combos)

Did some brackets for the tournament based on this (match and team pages also). Hopefully everything works out when it gets going.

Need to renew your domain registration dude ;)

(also, get isk value up on the destroyed ships, that was a >9bil flagship that died in the first match~)

Thanks! can't believe I forgot ISK values, working on an update now.

edit : updated

{
"message": "The route was not found",
"key": "routeMissing",
"exceptionType": "NotFoundError"
}

Kid have you looked at the http://at.eve-ic.net/10/ how much of that functionality do you think you can recreate?

Flipping thru the battles should be easier and getting to the kill reports takes to many steps if you are going to clean up the site any more.

The application/vnd.ccp.eve.TournamentTeam responses contain links to characters like http://public-crest.eveonline.com/characters/1887431749/ which result in:



Must we query the old API for character data?

can you find a quick way to link pilots to characters?

Hi all.

Since this stuff is going rather well, me and CCP Veritas though it would be nice to push this to 11. So here we go:

The vnd.ccp.eve.TournamentMatch-v1 resource now has two new optional fields:
* firstReplayFrame
* lastReplayFrame


Both of these link to a TournamentRealtimeMatchFrame-v1 containing a pretty amazing amount of info =)

Because it's easier to see for yourselves, just hit:
http://public-crest-duality.testeveonline.com/tournaments/3/series/5/matches/2/realtime/0/


A few notes on this:
1) Is this real life?
yep
2) Will this persist post match/tournament/downtime?
yes/yes/yes
3) Will this be updated in real-real time during the AT?
These endpoints will update more or less in synch with the twitch stream, so in real-time, but delayed by 60 seconds to not leak too much information to participants
4) what happens during real time action if I GET a frame that doesn't exists yet?!
I'll hold your request until it does. just make the GET and when it returns you should have your frame. Assuming all goes well.
4) Why?! OH GOD WHY?!
I like a good challenge.


o7

NINJA EDIT:
these endpoints are under HEAVY dev right now, expect change on them.

Hi all.

Since this stuff is going rather well, me and CCP Veritas though it would be nice to push this to 11. So here we go:

The vnd.ccp.eve.TournamentMatch-v1 resource now has two new optional fields:
* firstReplayFrame
* lastReplayFrame


Both of these link to a TournamentRealtimeMatchFrame-v1 containing a pretty amazing amount of info =)

Because it's easier to see for yourselves, just hit:
http://public-crest-duality.testeveonline.com/tournaments/3/series/5/matches/2/realtime/0/


A few notes on this:
1) Is this real life?
yep
2) Will this persist post match/tournament/downtime?
yes/yes/yes
3) Will this be updated in real-real time during the AT?
These endpoints will update more or less in synch with the twitch stream, so in real-time, but delayed by 60 seconds to not leak too much information to participants
4) what happens during real time action if I GET a frame that doesn't exists yet?!
I'll hold your request until it does. just make the GET and when it returns you should have your frame. Assuming all goes well.
4) Why?! OH GOD WHY?!
I like a good challenge.


o7

NINJA EDIT:
these endpoints are under HEAVY dev right now, expect change on them.

There are *significant* hurdles in the way of applying this technology to Eve in general. The tournament provides us a very bounded environment - 15 minutes max, 24 ships max, constrained location - which makes this sort of thing possible.

There are *significant* hurdles in the way of applying this technology to Eve in general. The tournament provides us a very bounded environment - 15 minutes max, 24 ships max, constrained location - which makes this sort of thing possible.

WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

There are *significant* hurdles in the way of applying this technology to Eve in general. The tournament provides us a very bounded environment - 15 minutes max, 24 ships max, constrained location - which makes this sort of thing possible.

We use our own mime type to support being asked for different version of a resource by the clients. By sending in an accept header with the correct mimetype, say "application/vnd.eve.ccp.Tournament-v1" the server knows to return you that particular version. It allows us to release new versions of these resource and your client will keep working as long as we support the version you want. Asking the server with an accept header that doesn't match returns you the latest version of a particular resource.

This is not standard practice and I'll hope you reconsider. If you are returning json, your mime-type is application/json... create your own header (e.g. API-Version: 0.00.1-build5290 if you must be so granular). I specifically say to use API-Header because, even though it is not a standard header, it is a header in common use for exactly this purpose.

If you are returning json, your mime-type is application/json

I am new to the dev/CREST party, if CCP put the versioning info in a header and set mime type to application/json - how would applications request a particular version?

Would my application send a GET request with a API-Version header? And the CREST response would contain its own API-Version header, hopefully the same as what I requested, and if not, the most recent version?

If that's an option it sounds like a better way to do it than repurposing MIME type.

I don't want to get into an argument over this

While I know that many use application/json as the "json" mimetype, I think this is wrong.

See, Json is not what I'm returning. Json is how I encode what I'm returning. The representation of the resource you are transferring is represented in a mimetype, say application/vnd.ccp.eve.TournamentTeam-v1, and the encoding of that representation is +json.

I don't want to get into an argument over this, as the system will stay this way, but I disagree with the following:



While I know that many use application/json as the "json" mimetype, I think this is wrong.

See, Json is not what I'm returning. Json is how I encode what I'm returning. The representation of the resource you are transferring is represented in a mimetype, say application/vnd.ccp.eve.TournamentTeam-v1, and the encoding of that representation is +json.

Should we decide to support xml in the future, you'd request application/vnd.ccp.eve.TournamentTeam-v1+xml

In any event, this is not going to change. If you don't like it, that's ok. But I think if you give it a try, you might find that this way is quite nice to use.

TL;DR: no special header, no url /vX/ style. Give me an Accept header and if I can match it you get exactly that, if not, you get the latest available representation

Hi all.

Since this stuff is going rather well, me and CCP Veritas though it would be nice to push this to 11.

There are *significant* hurdles in the way of applying this technology to Eve in general. The tournament provides us a very bounded environment - 15 minutes max, 24 ships max, constrained location - which makes this sort of thing possible.

So you mean those thousands of clients that currently connect to your system is using magic to get the physics data of objects into the client?

;-)

Long ago, in a discussion far far away, there were magical words CREST and OAuth used in the same sentence. Any news on this, or have I been dreaming?
...

Well, that's partially the magic of Eve. The actual clients don't get x,y,z except when they or someone else joins a bubble. A part from that, they only get the "Dude X started orbiting Dude Y" or "Dude A started shooting dude B" events and the simulation is then synchronized. If no one clicks anything, even a 2000 man fleet fight produces just about no traffic.

The method we use here needs to store all x,y,z and send them down all the time, no local simulation. THAT doesn't scale well to 2000 ship fleet.

Could you not provide that same level of expectation in this case? I mean, I don't really see a problem with people being expected to simulate some information. Is there a particular use case I'm missing?

I am working on a viewer (get the URL from someone in the CSM Alumni channel), and I am running into a couple of problems:

1) I am trying to use your webGL library, but to do that I need to convert ship names/ids to resource paths (like res:/dx9/model/ship/amarr/at1/at1.red). It looks like the javascript file at http://web.ccpgamescdn.com/shipviewer/assets/shipresources.js has a partial list, but it doesn't have all ship types. Can you either include the resource path to the .red file, or poke someone to update that javascript with the full ship list?

2) My linear algebra is really rusty, and turning position + velocity vectors into a 4x4 matrix is hard. This isn't really your fault, but man, I thought I left linear algebra behind. :)

I tried the argument that power is cheap and clean in Iceland and they should do the velocity calculation for us, but it didn't work ;-( Think of all the fossil fuel that will be burned by people writing inefficient algorithms to calculate velocity! Shame on you CCP for not being green!

Let's not derail the thread too much, but in short: Distributed simulation needs to be 100% perfect. If your floating point library is off a tiny bit, the scene will desynch and you have no hope of recovery. Further, you need to know MUCH more than just "Dude A orbits dude B". How fast you orbit is influenced by a ton of stuff, collisions have to be computed in the exact same way. Of course, nothing is impossible, but for now we are experimenting with this positional data method.

Ultimately though, you are just talking to the wrong person =) Other devs are much better suited to talk about Destiny (that's the name of the simulation engine) then I am.

I don't want to calculate velocity, I need to turn velocity into a translation matrix for web gl. Any graphics/math guys want to step up and tell me what I need to do?

That hadn't been done because the team exists in a tournament-agnostic way while the pilot's within the context of a single tournament.

Today I deployed a new endpoint which is a team within the context of a specific tournament, linked from the base tournament endpoint in the "entries". I think it'd make sense for us to have a link to pilotstats within the pilots array on that endpoint. We'll see if I get around to it next week. I probably will.

We put some more mildly ridiculous data at this endpoint:
http://public-crest-duality.testeveonline.com/tournaments/3/series/6/matches/0/

4 of the matches today had a bit too much data for the persistence layer to handle, so their realtime data is likely to disappear tomorrow after downtime once the cache expires. I have the data stored elsewhere so it's not lost, but we might have some holes in the exposure for a day or two until we can get that sorted.

Does that include the 2 matches that do not show any data on http://atxi-stats.appspot.com matches 70 and 77

Nope, all matches have data in memory at present. I don't know what's going on with Soxfour's app for those two matches.

Nope, all matches have data in memory at present. I don't know what's going on with Soxfour's app for those two matches.

Are you going to change all charts to how ship stats is or leave it like it is?

Not sure... I haven't really decided. I was also thinking of merging pilots flown and matches played into one graph.

It would clean up the site some more. I did not see if the print order could be changed like to efficiency order or something else, the generic for high graphs seems to be less to more on the first state pulled.

The order is the order I add it which is actually determined by how I build the list. I currently sort the lists from low to high on a specific attribute. Generally speaking I do it by some factor of how well they are doing. So damage done over damage received, ISK killed over ISK lost, that sort of thing. Can easily be changed in the python code though, just change how the list is returned.

I've been following the evolution of your stats site FoxFour, cool stuff.

Also, been messing around with a match viewer (heretic vs pizza), which was fun to watch matches in today but it needs lots of work. Nothing fancy, keeping it a simple tactical view. I'm getting around 40-50 fps when not recording.

All this CREST data has been amazing, can't wait to see ATXII.

Clicking your link does nothing but pull up quicktime but does not display anything. Just a "|" in the middle of the page.

Dag, yo. This CREST thing is the greatest thing ever.

I'm left wondering does this CREST thing take into account the damage applied to individual drones or exclusively damage done directly between players?

I could have sworn there was a post in here about projected effects and maybe drones being added to the realtime endpoint. I've gone through this a few times now and I'm pretty sure I dreamed that.

Are there any plans add projected effects?

3D match viewer is up. The code is still very much in the make it work phase(alpha). Should work today for live matches (you might have to hit f5 a few times).

Biggest problem is the projection of ship ticks to 2d is happening in software so they lag behind user input a bit, which really sucks but I haven't had time to figure a better solution. It works, it's reasonably right, and fairly fast (solid 60fps for me) but then there's tons of room for improvement. Anyway, I hope some one enjoys it, had a lot of fun making it.

There's a few EWar effects that share the same guid. In future replays, and hopefully the prior ones once I do some retrofitting, there's a effectName field which differentiates everything.

It looks good most glaring thing that is different from the CCP stream is the active rep portion of the top bar is missing.

Thank you, I'll try to work that in as it becomes available.



The bars aren't like CCP bars. I'm not sure the logic there and it was the last thing I added just to get it out there. The defense bar doesn't update and active reps aren't displayed. DPS bars are set to 100000 dps as a base line, control is based at some other arbitrary number. It is very alpha but I think its kinda fun so I put it up there for people to look at.

Normally I wouldn't release it in this state but with ATXI ending in a day I figured people might have fun watching matches in it live.


edit: Oh I've been meaning to say, USE CHROME - performance goes up > 100%

Hey CCP QC, CCP Veritas et al.

Posting a suggestion from ATXI twitch chat via @Hyunasaraki

We love the battlespace simulator and would love to use it ourselves on TQ, for replays and such.

I understand that it's computationally expensive to produce the snapshots for the CREST endpoint. So let our clients do those calculations. Build a demo recorder that saves snapshots of the simulation as seen by the client. So we can save our fights and see self HP, watchlist HP, targeted hp, ewar effects, visible grid positions etc. Outputting one or more .json files containing the sequence of snapshots would make it easy for us to develop fun new battle analysis tools.

I'll pass the suggestion along, trust me =)
I'd love to see that become reality.

I'll pass the suggestion along, trust me =)

I'd love to see that become reality.

The version on the official page seems to be down. Will it stay that way or will you keep updating it as you get better versions?

The Ability to record flights and then make video's that look super awesome.

I want it.

I want it now.

I want it all.

GIMMIE, GIMMIE, GIMMIE!!!!!!!!!