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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 30 post(s) |
TheFace Asano
Yulai Guard 1st Fleet Yulai Federation
10
|
Posted - 2013.09.04 15:47:00 -
[1981] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:Arthur Aihaken wrote:TheFace Asano wrote:I also say remove the tractor bonus for a smart bomb range bonus, it would be interesting and they all have the highs for them now. That's not a half bad idea (and it wouldn't break my heart to see the tractor bonus go the way of the dodo). Oh yeah, a smart bomb range bonus. Brilliant. Love to see how that will work in fleets. I know, we will space all ships out at least 10 km apart. Oh wait, ships are slower than bricks now.
Maybe a bonus to smartbomb damage instead?
Another idea might be to allow for the installation of a secondary system of weapons. Each would get a bonus to the secondary system of weapons at small size.
Example Vargur
100% bonus to Small Projectile Turret Damage (was 100% bonus to tractor beams) Remove the drone bay to balance this
Example Kronos:
100% bonus to light drone damage (was 100% bonus to tractor beams) 25 / 75 bandwith / bay (-2 highslot, total of 6 which leaves one utility highslot after bastion module)
and the same could be done for the other 2 as well, drones for the Paladin just like the Kronos and rocket launcher / light missile launcher for the Golem. I would say RLML for the Golem but that would be a little op.
I have always secretly wanted this option on all my battleships.
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Ager Agemo
Kiith Paktu Curatores Veritatis Alliance
365
|
Posted - 2013.09.04 15:48:00 -
[1982] - Quote
either way the bastion mode its a dead sentence, having friends wont help because they cannot even heal or boost you. |
Hell Bitch
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
13
|
Posted - 2013.09.04 15:52:00 -
[1983] - Quote
These changes look awesome, good enough to warrant the purchase of a Paladin to compliment (but never replace) my Nightmare. I do however have a couple of questions and concerns.
1) When transforming into bastion super star destroyer mode, is the ship functional, can i fire my guns and lock stuff etc, or do I have to wait out a duration timer? Same goes for the de-transformation I suppose.
2) bastion module fuel. Please make the bastion module require cap to activate, even if its pathetic like 1 unit per cycle. Cap warfare is going to be big business against these beasts, however it is foreseeable that if your shield tanked you'd forgo the cap injector entirely for ASB's, this creates disparity between the effect of cap warfare against armour tanked marauders (who almost certainly will be cap injected) and shield tanked marauders.
3) will it be possible to at least align when in bastion mode, the last thing you want is your super cool transformerthingy of death firing at all weird angles and looking a bit crap.
4) As these are available on the internal test server, what is the range of a bastion'd up Pulse Paladin shooting conflag, with all V relevant skills, 2 TC's and 1 T2 locus rig with a 5% optimal hardwiring. Forget Tachs, that's what the Nightmare is for, conflag is gonna be this seasons new black.
5) As the Vargur already looks like a giant space gun, can it please transform into megatron :D
I really hope these changes make it live some day. Forget all the whiners, look how many people commented in the HAC thread stating that you weren't being creative enough, and now look what happens when you are creative.
Keep up the good work. |
Maaloc
Iris Covenant The Gorgon Empire
1
|
Posted - 2013.09.04 15:53:00 -
[1984] - Quote
So, as a result of you haphazard rebalances we now have the situation when fractional battleships are almost the same in pve as the marauders. In my opinion, you should reward players for the time they've spent learning the neccesary skills and getting isk to by these rather expensive skills...but instead you are proposing this
You must have probably forgoten, but there's not only high-secs. This ****** rebalance of yours is a nice kick in the balls for those who use marauders in low- and null-secs and in wh-space: using this bastion module is kinda dangerous since one minute is more than enough to probe such a big ship and light up a cyno on your mission site. And without this module we get slightly castrated versions of the ships we already have.
And MJD. All marauders are tanked as hell. Why the hell would they need to use MJD in PvE? It's simply redundant. And I seriously doubt they will find any use in PvP when a middle-sized gang of cheap nagas/tengues/etc can easily **** your maradeurs just with a couple of curses (the ships I mean) even if the maradeurs are in siege-mode. |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1263
|
Posted - 2013.09.04 15:55:00 -
[1985] - Quote
Ager Agemo wrote:either way the bastion mode its a dead sentence, having friends wont help because they cannot even heal or boost you.
yes for 60 seconds... and how ehp does that kronos have? how much can it rep? ever heard of a target spectrum breaker...
i am glad most of you pubbies think the mod is useless makes it even better for me There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |
Battle Cube
Cubes' Freakout Room.
32
|
Posted - 2013.09.04 15:57:00 -
[1986] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote:Sal Landry wrote:You must have missed the handy chart that CCP put out. Every ship is supposed to have its own role without obsoleting other ships, except for pirate ships which will just be strictly better at all times because reasons. Not strictly better, just more of a general progression from T1 without any outright specialization. Right now I'd bet they're going to be like Attack Battleships. Less tank that Marauders, no special bonuses, a bit more gank and speed. Battle Cube wrote:yeah, if only this proposal showed that marauders would have their own role.
The problem is any role you suggest for them, they are outclassed by ships of equal cost but less training time - Especially if used in groups of more than 1 I would wait for the re-balance on that >.> And it's actually not significantly less training time to use at equal effectiveness. For a Pirate Battleship to be "maxed" you need the same support and weapons skills as a Marauder, in some cases more like with the Rattlesnake. You also need 2 Battleship skills to 5, where as with Marauders you need 1 BS to 5 and then Marauders to 5. Except that you only need to train that once and you have access to any Marauder you have BS 5 for so when you have all 5 BS skills the difference comes out to about a month between the Bastion mod and Marauders 5 on a plan optimized for Marauders. Beyond that Pirate ships are pretty much next up on the block, either before, after or at the same time as the Black-Ops Battleships. Since we've got 2 more balancing devs who currently don't have active threads my bet would be that in about a week or two when they get back from vacation we'll see a Black Ops and some version of a Pirate ships thread (given the other Battleship hulls being on the block they may start with battleships rather than frigates)
You are saying you need both BS skills to 5 in order to match the effectiveness of a marauder? Yeah.... i dont think so. You can outperform current marauders with a pirate bs with bs levels to 4. And its not that the marauder should be better - no - its that it should have a role in which is performs not only well - but better then other ships of equal or less value. |
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CCP Ytterbium
C C P C C P Alliance
2615
|
Posted - 2013.09.04 15:58:00 -
[1987] - Quote
Time for another update.
We discussed the Marauder situation further and came with the following changes:
- Shield, armor and hull 30% resistance boosts have been removed on the Bastion Module - instead, all Marauders will now get proper tech2 resists. This will allow Marauders to have better RR use outside Bastion and reduce overall tanking effectiveness inside the mode.
- We have removed all tanking bonuses on the Marauders hulls (Armor Repairer amount on the Paladin and Kronos, Shield Boost amount on the Golem and Vargur). Instead, we are giving them 7.5% bonus to the velocity factor of stasis webifiers per level. This will not only help reducing their tanking effectiveness, be more in theme with the ship role itself and help anyone using them with short range weapons. We are not giving them a full 10% per level back as this would be extremely powerful in conjunction with the other bonuses / Bastion. We are going to leave the full 10% web strength amount on the Serpentis ships for now and see how things evolve with time.
- Also, we are removing the mass penalty on the Bastion mode. Tests have shown you can't really turn when it's active anyway, and we don't want to have players abuse that to collapse wormholes.
I will change the OP to match the changes. |
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Maaloc
Iris Covenant The Gorgon Empire
1
|
Posted - 2013.09.04 15:58:00 -
[1988] - Quote
And I can't help myself from saying that: are you this low on creativity? Let's give a siege module to all the ships in the game! |
luredivino
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
26
|
Posted - 2013.09.04 15:59:00 -
[1989] - Quote
Since CCP is never going to give a damage bonus to bastian, taking away drone bay and bandwidth is a little heavy handed. Allowing the use of 3 or 4 heavy drones (at least with gallente and amarr since they are locked into a single damage profile) would make the ships more comparable to the equally expensive pirate battleships. A good tradeoff for this would be to make the drone bay equal to the bandwidth, so you have to choose between 3 or 4 heavy drones and having light drones. |
Battle Cube
Cubes' Freakout Room.
32
|
Posted - 2013.09.04 15:59:00 -
[1990] - Quote
Claire Raynor wrote:Hi All,
I hope I haven't set the tone in some small way for this thread from my first ever first on the front page. I said I didn't see this helping me in PvE because I don't think this Marauder hull design is going to help me do what I do better, I have an alt and mobility in missions is important for what I do.
There is a lot of nagative stuff in this thread but there are also a lot of posts, esspecially earlier on, where people's first reaction was that of, "Wow cool". I think it's nice that CCP are putting stuff into the game that is a bit different.
As I've said in other Features and Ideas threads that were trying to predict what the Marauder update would consist of is that my current navy faction battleships give almost as high DPS and higher tank whilst being faster than the old Marauders. Now the Marauders can have high tank but zero mobility - but I like to use spider tank setups - which is the origin of my initial comment.
HOWEVER
My old beloved Mega Navy Issue does 556 at 39.6Km+36Km and tanks 905DPS travels at 499 m/s (I don't drone) My potential new Kronos will do 600 at 39.6Km+54Km and tanks 941DPS travels at 439 m/s (I still won't drone)
The Tank is augmented by my on-field CS but it needs to be good to start with in case the CS has an accident like what happened once.
I won't use the Bastion module because I like to Spider Tank. I won't use the tractor beams or salvagers because I Noctis.
HOWEVER!!!!! I now get to fit three Large Armour Repair Systems - Which DOES help my Spider tank setup - and I can Dump the Web for another Booster! And I'll have a MASSIVE cargo hold for my booster charges! Yay.
So the Marauders are now better for me - simply because they get a Falloff bonus. And they may be worth the price tag too.
the falloff bonus is only during bastion mode...
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Mournful Conciousness
Embers Children TOHA Conglomerate
308
|
Posted - 2013.09.04 16:00:00 -
[1991] - Quote
MeBiatch wrote:Ager Agemo wrote:either way the bastion mode its a dead sentence, having friends wont help because they cannot even heal or boost you. yes for 60 seconds... and how ehp does that kronos have? how much can it rep? ever heard of a target spectrum breaker... i am glad most of you pubbies think the mod is useless makes it even better for me
TSB takes up a midslot of course. That's going to cost you a tracking computer.
In any case, if you're in null or w-space, you'll be inside an interdiction field.
I would advise you against using bastion mode in w-space or null. But if you do, please be so kind as to let me know where you are...
Winter marauders - Mutant Ninja Space Turtles
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MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1263
|
Posted - 2013.09.04 16:01:00 -
[1992] - Quote
I find it superfluous to compare marauders which are going threw a balance phase to Pirate Battleships which have not.
How about lets balance Marauders to ships that have been balanced so that means tech I bs's.
lets compare marauders to Pirate Battleships when the Pirate Battleship thread gets opened in two weeks.
There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |
Harvey James
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
484
|
Posted - 2013.09.04 16:02:00 -
[1993] - Quote
CCP Ytterbium wrote:Time for another update.We discussed the Marauder situation further and came with the following changes:
- Shield, armor and hull 30% resistance boosts have been removed on the Bastion Module - instead, all Marauders will now get proper tech2 resists. This will allow Marauders to have better RR use outside Bastion and reduce overall tanking effectiveness inside the mode.
- We have removed all tanking bonuses on the Marauders hulls (Armor Repairer amount on the Paladin and Kronos, Shield Boost amount on the Golem and Vargur). Instead, we are giving them 7.5% bonus to the velocity factor of stasis webifiers per level. This will not only help reducing their tanking effectiveness, be more in theme with the ship role itself and help anyone using them with short range weapons. We are not giving them a full 10% per level back as this would be extremely powerful in conjunction with the other bonuses / Bastion. We are going to leave the full 10% web strength amount on the Serpentis ships for now and see how things evolve with time.
- Also, we are removing the mass penalty on the Bastion mode. Tests have shown you can't really turn when it's active anyway, and we don't want to have players abuse that to collapse wormholes.
I will change the OP to match the changes.
christ with the webs already i think webs and especially 10% bonuses are OP in general
i think this change is just going backwards and reducing the specialisation ... i dislike giving all T2 ships better base resists .. just because their T2 doesn't mean they should have better tank than T1... and it tends to trample on navy more aswell Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name AB's need a buff-á like a big mass reduction ... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |
Maximus Andendare
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
495
|
Posted - 2013.09.04 16:06:00 -
[1994] - Quote
CCP Ytterbium wrote:We are not giving them a full 10% per level back as this would be extremely powerful in conjunction with the other bonuses / Bastion. We are going to leave the full 10% web strength amount on the Serpentis ships for now and see how things evolve with time. Now with this admission I can see the web bonuses on the other ships being reduced to 7.5%. We saw a similar "trickle down" effect from the Ishtar's to the Domi's bonuses, and I could very much see the 90% web bonuses being affected in the future.
Step onto the battlefield, and you're already dead, born again at the end of the battle to live on and fight another day.
>> Play Dust 514 FREE! Sign up for exclusive gear today! << |
Maximus Andendare
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
495
|
Posted - 2013.09.04 16:09:00 -
[1995] - Quote
Zeus Maximo wrote:Maximus Andendare wrote:This may come as a shocker, I know, but not all ships are designed to be solo ships. If you're flying a Marauder solo, then you're an idiot if you enter "'can't move' mode."
I know its tempting to create scenarios that prove your point when you post, but you at least have to make them believable.
Sorry to burst your bubble but any non industrial ship can be used for solo pvp. People that rely on skill tend to not rely on a fleet. I truly do hope you have experienced eve outside of a fleet I'm sure Capitals disagree. But as long as you're saying that any subcap can theoretically do solo PVP, regardless if they're effective at it or not, well, of course I agree with that. And by that, Marauders can solo pvp as well. Just as well as any ewar ship can, or a Logi ship, etc. Also, lol...your ego is so large it's comical. "People that rely on skill tend to not rely on a fleet." Step onto the battlefield, and you're already dead, born again at the end of the battle to live on and fight another day.
>> Play Dust 514 FREE! Sign up for exclusive gear today! << |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1263
|
Posted - 2013.09.04 16:10:00 -
[1996] - Quote
Mournful Conciousness wrote:MeBiatch wrote:Ager Agemo wrote:either way the bastion mode its a dead sentence, having friends wont help because they cannot even heal or boost you. yes for 60 seconds... and how ehp does that kronos have? how much can it rep? ever heard of a target spectrum breaker... i am glad most of you pubbies think the mod is useless makes it even better for me TSB takes up a midslot of course. That's going to cost you a tracking computer. In any case, if you're in null or w-space, you'll be inside an interdiction field. I would advise you against using bastion mode in w-space or null. But if you do, please be so kind as to let me know where you are...
cool thing about the interdiction feild is that the mjd will still work.
so yes i will be using these quite often in stain doing lev iv missions. also for pve i more then likely will not have a tsb on but for pvp i will.
if you think you can find me by all means.
and honestly i dont mind loosing a mid slot. if it means i will survive.
i would envision PL taking advantage of these ships...
Titan Brige them in... go into siege and proceed to kill everything.
how much can a kronos tank anyways with a LAAR and faction tank? i would bet a bunch.
There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |
Ager Agemo
Kiith Paktu Curatores Veritatis Alliance
365
|
Posted - 2013.09.04 16:12:00 -
[1997] - Quote
CCP Ytterbium wrote:Time for another update.We discussed the Marauder situation further and came with the following changes:
- Shield, armor and hull 30% resistance boosts have been removed on the Bastion Module - instead, all Marauders will now get proper tech2 resists. This will allow Marauders to have better RR use outside Bastion and reduce overall tanking effectiveness inside the mode.
- We have removed all tanking bonuses on the Marauders hulls (Armor Repairer amount on the Paladin and Kronos, Shield Boost amount on the Golem and Vargur). Instead, we are giving them 7.5% bonus to the velocity factor of stasis webifiers per level. This will not only help reducing their tanking effectiveness, be more in theme with the ship role itself and help anyone using them with short range weapons. We are not giving them a full 10% per level back as this would be extremely powerful in conjunction with the other bonuses / Bastion. We are going to leave the full 10% web strength amount on the Serpentis ships for now and see how things evolve with time.
- Also, we are removing the mass penalty on the Bastion mode. Tests have shown you can't really turn when it's active anyway, and we don't want to have players abuse that to collapse wormholes.
I will change the OP to match the changes.
HALF yay, this feels a bit better, Golem with webs *-*! now that's a PVP warship! bring then to me! I forgive you for crippling my drones!
as a suggestion about the MJD but why not instead change it to MWD speed? either way, MWDs give marauders the signature of an station so they still will be vulnerable, but that way they can maneuver to get that web to use and will become way more useful for missions as well. |
Zeus Maximo
Mentally Assured Destruction
430
|
Posted - 2013.09.04 16:13:00 -
[1998] - Quote
CCP Ytterbium wrote:Time for another update.We discussed the Marauder situation further and came with the following changes:
- Shield, armor and hull 30% resistance boosts have been removed on the Bastion Module - instead, all Marauders will now get proper tech2 resists. This will allow Marauders to have better RR use outside Bastion and reduce overall tanking effectiveness inside the mode.
- We have removed all tanking bonuses on the Marauders hulls (Armor Repairer amount on the Paladin and Kronos, Shield Boost amount on the Golem and Vargur). Instead, we are giving them 7.5% bonus to the velocity factor of stasis webifiers per level. This will not only help reducing their tanking effectiveness, be more in theme with the ship role itself and help anyone using them with short range weapons. We are not giving them a full 10% per level back as this would be extremely powerful in conjunction with the other bonuses / Bastion. We are going to leave the full 10% web strength amount on the Serpentis ships for now and see how things evolve with time.
- Also, we are removing the mass penalty on the Bastion mode. Tests have shown you can't really turn when it's active anyway, and we don't want to have players abuse that to collapse wormholes.
I will change the OP to match the changes.
You now have my blessing to marry CCP Falcon
Zeus Maximo wrote: An idea that I might endorse: All marauders receive a 90% web bonus when in "can't move" mode.
In pvp with that bonus you burn up to your target, web him, turn on fort knox tank, then blast away. You would then treat this ship on the field like you would any vindi or bhaal.
Might need to send my resume' in to ccp..... |
Sentient Blade
Walk It Off
1004
|
Posted - 2013.09.04 16:19:00 -
[1999] - Quote
So the only real thing which made them useful (the rep amount bonuses) is being replaced with something which only works if you're sat 10km away from the target in the first place (and by extension, scrammed).
Sorry but that's just dumb. These are not mobile ships. Jumping 100km away using MJD does nothing to close 40km on another ship, be it PVE or PVP. |
Maximus Andendare
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
496
|
Posted - 2013.09.04 16:20:00 -
[2000] - Quote
CCP Ytterbium wrote:Also, we are removing the mass penalty on the Bastion mode. Tests have shown you can't really turn when it's active anyway, and we don't want to have players abuse that to collapse wormholes. So they can be bumped now like a regular battleship even when in Bastion? I thought the mass increase was to stop bumping, which has a hugely negative effect on tracking.
Step onto the battlefield, and you're already dead, born again at the end of the battle to live on and fight another day.
>> Play Dust 514 FREE! Sign up for exclusive gear today! << |
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Mournful Conciousness
Embers Children TOHA Conglomerate
308
|
Posted - 2013.09.04 16:20:00 -
[2001] - Quote
MeBiatch wrote:Mournful Conciousness wrote:MeBiatch wrote:Ager Agemo wrote:either way the bastion mode its a dead sentence, having friends wont help because they cannot even heal or boost you. yes for 60 seconds... and how ehp does that kronos have? how much can it rep? ever heard of a target spectrum breaker... i am glad most of you pubbies think the mod is useless makes it even better for me TSB takes up a midslot of course. That's going to cost you a tracking computer. In any case, if you're in null or w-space, you'll be inside an interdiction field. I would advise you against using bastion mode in w-space or null. But if you do, please be so kind as to let me know where you are... cool thing about the interdiction feild is that the mjd will still work. so yes i will be using these quite often in stain doing lev iv missions. also for pve i more then likely will not have a tsb on but for pvp i will. if you think you can find me by all means. and honestly i dont mind loosing a mid slot. if it means i will survive. i would envision PL taking advantage of these ships... Titan Brige them in... go into siege and proceed to kill everything. how much can a kronos tank anyways with a LAAR and faction tank? i would bet a bunch.
heh, I can see that it'll be a bit of fun and games. I have never flown with a hictor that didn't also carry a scrambler but ok. I can see that we'll have a bit of a game of "watch the bastion mode" in the same way POS gunners do with dreads. You'll still die.
But ok, It'll be a bit of fun. Winter marauders - Mutant Ninja Space Turtles
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Ravasta Helugo
Republic University Minmatar Republic
35
|
Posted - 2013.09.04 16:22:00 -
[2002] - Quote
CCP Ytterbium wrote:Time for another update.We discussed the Marauder situation further and came with the following changes:
- Shield, armor and hull 30% resistance boosts have been removed on the Bastion Module - instead, all Marauders will now get proper tech2 resists. This will allow Marauders to have better RR use outside Bastion and reduce overall tanking effectiveness inside the mode.
- We have removed all tanking bonuses on the Marauders hulls (Armor Repairer amount on the Paladin and Kronos, Shield Boost amount on the Golem and Vargur). Instead, we are giving them 7.5% bonus to the velocity factor of stasis webifiers per level. This will not only help reducing their tanking effectiveness, be more in theme with the ship role itself and help anyone using them with short range weapons. We are not giving them a full 10% per level back as this would be extremely powerful in conjunction with the other bonuses / Bastion. We are going to leave the full 10% web strength amount on the Serpentis ships for now and see how things evolve with time.
- Also, we are removing the mass penalty on the Bastion mode. Tests have shown you can't really turn when it's active anyway, and we don't want to have players abuse that to collapse wormholes.
I will change the OP to match the changes. Woah.
Uh, I kinda wanted that non-stacking 30% though. It would have been a huge F U to gankers. Tech II resists... damn. Uh, I'm not sure how I feel about this. In one fell swoop you just make these things way less tanky and ... replaced it with a web bonus...
This is going to make my Paladin slightly worse than it is now, won't it? I just... I need to evaluate these changes in depth and stop rambling.
My first reaction is NOT supportive though. Don't cave so easily to the haters. |
Ralph King-Griffin
Var Foundation inc.
8
|
Posted - 2013.09.04 16:25:00 -
[2003] - Quote
Ravasta Helugo wrote:CCP Ytterbium wrote:Time for another update.We discussed the Marauder situation further and came with the following changes:
- Shield, armor and hull 30% resistance boosts have been removed on the Bastion Module - instead, all Marauders will now get proper tech2 resists. This will allow Marauders to have better RR use outside Bastion and reduce overall tanking effectiveness inside the mode.
- We have removed all tanking bonuses on the Marauders hulls (Armor Repairer amount on the Paladin and Kronos, Shield Boost amount on the Golem and Vargur). Instead, we are giving them 7.5% bonus to the velocity factor of stasis webifiers per level. This will not only help reducing their tanking effectiveness, be more in theme with the ship role itself and help anyone using them with short range weapons. We are not giving them a full 10% per level back as this would be extremely powerful in conjunction with the other bonuses / Bastion. We are going to leave the full 10% web strength amount on the Serpentis ships for now and see how things evolve with time.
- Also, we are removing the mass penalty on the Bastion mode. Tests have shown you can't really turn when it's active anyway, and we don't want to have players abuse that to collapse wormholes.
I will change the OP to match the changes. Woah. Uh, I kinda wanted that non-stacking 30% though. It would have been a huge F U to gankers. Tech II resists... damn. Uh, I'm not sure how I feel about this. In one fell swoop you just make these things way less tanky and ... replaced it with a web bonus... This is going to make my Paladin slightly worse than it is now, won't it? I just... I need to evaluate these changes in depth and stop rambling. My first reaction is NOT supportive though. Don't cave so easily to the haters.
this, a thousand times this. If in doubt...do...excessively. |
luredivino
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
26
|
Posted - 2013.09.04 16:26:00 -
[2004] - Quote
CCP Ytterbium wrote:Battle Cube wrote:While the blue post is appreciated.... i cant be the only one disappointing in those vargur numbers comparing even to a current vargur, or to a pirate bs.....
Maybe its just me, but it shouldn't just "compare" to a pirate bs if it costs the same but take more skills
And ok so it can tank the first wave of a VG but with no benefit due to lost dps, so its just 'comparable' for doing L4s. Exciting.
"we are definitely not going to give any kind of damage bonus in Bastion mode"
well i think i'm done here.
i guess i'll play with one for like 20 minutes though, i guess. You have a bit less damage and less mobility, but better damage application, more tank, EW immunity, less ammunition consumption, more range on tractor beams, MJD reduction bonus. Apple and oranges. Again, point of Tech2 in the new scheme isn't to make them all better than other hulls
The goal of Tech 2 hulls isn't to be necessarily better than other ships, but better in certain roles than other ships. Pirate battleships are better than marauders, do more damage, are faster, tankier, more turret dps, more dronebay/bandwidth. Why fly marauder at this point. Bastian mode should have a damage bonus. Nothing crazy like with dreads, but something small like a 10% bonus. Something that would give 1 effective turret and put them on par with their pirate battleship counterparts. A small tracking nerf to compensate would be fair.
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Makoto Priano
Priano Trans-Stellar State Services
4685
|
Posted - 2013.09.04 16:27:00 -
[2005] - Quote
CCP Ytterbium wrote:Time for another update.We discussed the Marauder situation further and came with the following changes:
- Shield, armor and hull 30% resistance boosts have been removed on the Bastion Module - instead, all Marauders will now get proper tech2 resists. This will allow Marauders to have better RR use outside Bastion and reduce overall tanking effectiveness inside the mode.
- We have removed all tanking bonuses on the Marauders hulls (Armor Repairer amount on the Paladin and Kronos, Shield Boost amount on the Golem and Vargur). Instead, we are giving them 7.5% bonus to the velocity factor of stasis webifiers per level. This will not only help reducing their tanking effectiveness, be more in theme with the ship role itself and help anyone using them with short range weapons. We are not giving them a full 10% per level back as this would be extremely powerful in conjunction with the other bonuses / Bastion. We are going to leave the full 10% web strength amount on the Serpentis ships for now and see how things evolve with time.
- Also, we are removing the mass penalty on the Bastion mode. Tests have shown you can't really turn when it's active anyway, and we don't want to have players abuse that to collapse wormholes.
I will change the OP to match the changes.
If we're losing resists from the Bastion, is it possible that we could get a damage application bonus? For instance, a tracking and explosion radius buff would be brilliant. It'd give a clear application advantage to the Marauders in Bastion, while not buffing their DPS. |
Xequecal
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
48
|
Posted - 2013.09.04 16:28:00 -
[2006] - Quote
Tech 2 resists are actually overall stronger than the proposed bastion module resists were. T2 resists give a 75% bonus to one resist and a 50% bonus to a second, for a total of 125%, while the module was only 120% total.
Vargurs just get more and more ridiculous for incursions. This is a threefold EHP and tanking increase for Vargurs against EM/Therm damage. You don't even need to bother with spider-tanking or ASBs anymore, you can just face tank it solo with a max gank setup. |
Silvetica Dian
Manson Family
60
|
Posted - 2013.09.04 16:29:00 -
[2007] - Quote
some of us liked the 1st iteration more :( |
Hell Bitch
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
14
|
Posted - 2013.09.04 16:30:00 -
[2008] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Ravasta Helugo wrote:CCP Ytterbium wrote:Time for another update.We discussed the Marauder situation further and came with the following changes:
- Shield, armor and hull 30% resistance boosts have been removed on the Bastion Module - instead, all Marauders will now get proper tech2 resists. This will allow Marauders to have better RR use outside Bastion and reduce overall tanking effectiveness inside the mode.
- We have removed all tanking bonuses on the Marauders hulls (Armor Repairer amount on the Paladin and Kronos, Shield Boost amount on the Golem and Vargur). Instead, we are giving them 7.5% bonus to the velocity factor of stasis webifiers per level. This will not only help reducing their tanking effectiveness, be more in theme with the ship role itself and help anyone using them with short range weapons. We are not giving them a full 10% per level back as this would be extremely powerful in conjunction with the other bonuses / Bastion. We are going to leave the full 10% web strength amount on the Serpentis ships for now and see how things evolve with time.
- Also, we are removing the mass penalty on the Bastion mode. Tests have shown you can't really turn when it's active anyway, and we don't want to have players abuse that to collapse wormholes.
I will change the OP to match the changes. Woah. Uh, I kinda wanted that non-stacking 30% though. It would have been a huge F U to gankers. Tech II resists... damn. Uh, I'm not sure how I feel about this. In one fell swoop you just make these things way less tanky and ... replaced it with a web bonus... This is going to make my Paladin slightly worse than it is now, won't it? I just... I need to evaluate these changes in depth and stop rambling. My first reaction is NOT supportive though. Don't cave so easily to the haters. this, a thousand times this.
Agreed, the Paladin looks a lot less shinier now, double the price of a nightmare for a slight range buff?? Hmmm |
Ravasta Helugo
Republic University Minmatar Republic
37
|
Posted - 2013.09.04 16:30:00 -
[2009] - Quote
luredivino wrote:CCP Ytterbium wrote:Battle Cube wrote:While the blue post is appreciated.... i cant be the only one disappointing in those vargur numbers comparing even to a current vargur, or to a pirate bs.....
Maybe its just me, but it shouldn't just "compare" to a pirate bs if it costs the same but take more skills
And ok so it can tank the first wave of a VG but with no benefit due to lost dps, so its just 'comparable' for doing L4s. Exciting.
"we are definitely not going to give any kind of damage bonus in Bastion mode"
well i think i'm done here.
i guess i'll play with one for like 20 minutes though, i guess. You have a bit less damage and less mobility, but better damage application, more tank, EW immunity, less ammunition consumption, more range on tractor beams, MJD reduction bonus. Apple and oranges. Again, point of Tech2 in the new scheme isn't to make them all better than other hulls The goal of Tech 2 hulls isn't to be necessarily better than other ships, but better in certain roles than other ships. Pirate battleships are better than marauders, do more damage, are faster, tankier, more turret dps, more dronebay/bandwidth. Why fly marauder at this point. Bastian mode should have a damage bonus. Nothing crazy like with dreads, but something small like a 10% bonus. Something that would give 1 effective turret and put them on par with their pirate battleship counterparts. A small tracking nerf to compensate would be fair. Yeah. Fine.
Now that my Pali's tank just got nerfed by 37.5%, I'm jumping right on this bandwagon.
There is no reason not to include a damage boost, or at bare minimum an application (tracking/exp velocity) boost, now that the bastion tank has been so massively scaled back. |
Galdrak
Interplanetary Trade Federation
3
|
Posted - 2013.09.04 16:31:00 -
[2010] - Quote
could i suggest that like the command ships damnation and absolution
you make a second marauder based on your changes and leave my first gen paladin as it is.
copy and repeat for all the other races
Stick it on SISI and let the unwashed masses try it out. 1st gen against 2nd gen. cant be that hard to strap another hamster to the wheel.
stop re balancing and start evolving, let the races make improvements they would naturally make in ten years of research during times of war. |
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